Let's settle this once and for all, officer or enlisted? Posted on May 7, 2023 by PrepHole Contributor Let's settle this once and for all, officer or enlisted?
what is that? an officer who is wanted for arrest?
They're a dying breed. Closest you can get are STA-21 dudes.
Just do your job. Get your shit squared away, and then help others around you do the same.
officer if you are signing up for a career, enlisted if you are just signing up for 4 years for the benefits.
Which gives more prestige on PrepHole? I'm thinking enlisted, because officers have an air of pretentiousness..
accumulated stories and experience are the bread and butter of PrepHole. it doesn't really matter what path you follow because there's always shit slinging against every profession. being able to entertain people with past exploits of fuckery is valuable.
Imagine choosing a career path to gain updoots on a Czech knitting board. One has to hope you're kidding.
How chief petty officers see everyone else
Based, senior NCOs are the beating heart of the organization.
Theyre both required. Both have their share of fuck ups, and squared away guys. From terminal lances who can physically can't go a weekend without catching a DUI, to Eternal 0-1s stuffed in the S-shops where they can't cause damage. You can go far with any path if you're competent.
I hate most officers below telephone colonel. Lt’s are retarded gays, and captains are just opinionated retarded gays. Majors are either absolute dipshits, or are great leaders in the making. Either or, no middle ground.
E-1 thru 3 are dipshits, E-4 are smug little shits that know what they’re doing but also have no power. E-5 has no fucking idea what they’re doing but they’re “leading” in whatever retarded meaning they have built up.
E-6 does *ALL* of the bitch work for all services, and is literally the powerhouse of every fucking service branch. Not only are they gods of their jobs, but they handle all of the additional bullshit thrown at them and build the programs for leadership.
E-7, we handle the admin shit wholesale and get killed by powerpoint until we retire.
E8-E9, you enjoy getting sodomized by powerpoints and gay meetings, and want to strive for more power that doesnt exist in the enlisted side. You typically retire the villian.
Spot on. From my perspective (E4-->O1 this year) you E-7s are like 60% really good men and leaders who hold it all together, 10% assholes who think they're the first category but everyone hates them and they don't know or don't care, and 30% depressed balding guys who either do paperwork all day or get all the company/battalion bitchwork because they don't last long as actual leaders
Yeah, basically. Though to be fair most e1-e3s are literal children. I came out of the army thinking a person isn't an actual adult until around the age of 25.
O-6+ - spend all your time planning which consulting or lobbying firm you will go to after you retire for a $150,000 pay raise. Go back from a hard day's work telling some people to make Power Points and others to sit through Power Points to your nice man cave.
What does E-10 do?
Theoretically bring the concerns of the enlisted below him to the uppermost levels of decision making. In practice collect a paycheck and attend ceremonies
How in your mind did E4 magically brain dump when he became an E5, but suddenly become a God by his arbitrary promotion to E6
Because E4s actually run shit and NCOs are clinically retarded.
E4 knows lower enlisted shit but barely any NCO shit. E5 spends their time learning all the NCO shit they didn't know or weren't even aware of. E6 is an E5 that knows his shit.
>E5 spends their time learning all the NCO shit they didn't know or weren't even aware of.
Only if you had shitty leaders that didn't take time out of their day to teach you like they are supposed to.
I was learning how to be a team leader as a PV2 and was made an AG as a PFC. Once I picked up SPC I had about 4 months of AG time and got moved to an actual team leader slot a few months after. I was one of like 3 that earned P status at my board, and the only one from my company. Covid and the ghost boards that resulted from it inflated the numbers of new SGTs (Guys that had failed the board and would never pass a real one just got waved through) and made points across the board skyrocket and fucked me for a while when the points for infantry were maxed out instead of the usual 40 some needed while I had nearly 400.
E-4's are glorified E-3's but with the time in service / grade requirement (at least in the Marine Corps) you have a lot of time to theoretically mature, and theoretically become a better leader, and theoretically become more knowledgeable / better at your job.
>t. E-4 fag
Lol i did my E-7 job as an E-5 cause he would leave early every day to play golf. Most E-7s (navy specific) are entitled twats that bitch and moan but are hardly ever creative problem solvers.
Depends on what branch/service. On a sub, e4/5 is the backbone across most rates. E6 can be taken or left. It doesn't mean there aren't stand up E6s though. Could be the way they were doing advancement, but that's the feeling I got across the waterfront when i was in.
t. 6 and out nuke
>E-6 does *ALL* of the bitch work for all services, and is literally the powerhouse of every fucking service branch. Not only are they gods of their jobs, but they handle all of the additional bullshit thrown at them and build the programs for leadership.
Seeing enlisted get chewed out for shit I get calmly told not to do is the whole reason I'm still in the military. Shit is a power trip. Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men is a literally me character for officers.
Isn’t it more like anybody e1 through e4 is viewed as just actual children who are more liability then they are asset? While e5 and above is when enlisted begin racking up good boy points?
US Colonels just manage a regiment, right?
Brigade. We don't have true regiments outside the Rangers. Marines Colonels do regiments though.
TOG is a regiment. 2CR is a Regiment. 3CR is a Regiment.
My knees will randomly click for the rest of my life, and I have tinnitus from not being able to wear ear pro during ceremonies with our formation right next to PSB. (I get beer money once a month for the rest of my life tho.)
>TOG is a regiment.
In name only. All three of it's BNs are in completey seperate places, and only 2 are actual line units
>2CR is a Regiment. 3CR is a Regiment.
Regiments in name only. All three are organized with the same structure as a Stryker Brigade.
1/3 and 4/3 are both at Fort Myer.
haven't Regiments and Brigades always been rough equivalents?
iirc a 'Legion' also falls within that rough unit size
>haven't Regiments and Brigades always been rough equivalents?
close, but regiments are a little smaller than brigades.
A regiment is typically a single arm, 3 line battalions and an HHC + attachments. Brigades have multiple arms and usually 3-7 battalions.
All are Regiments in name only. Even in places like the National Guard where a “regiment” might have 3 BNs the regiment doesn’t exist as an organization. They only exist to preserve heritage of the old system.
Even the actual ranger regiment is Brigade size now because of its two support battalions. Though it still remains a single combat arm.
To be fair earlier Regimental Combat Teams were only slightly smaller than brigade size by actual number of soldiers. They were about 4000-4500 soldiers.
more likely a Brigade
I’d say enlisted because of NCOs and enlisted into warrants but it seems like every branch is doing whatever it can to push out anyone who isn’t a retard out.
I am a week away from finishing US Army Field Artillery Basic Officer's Leadership Course (meaning I am a O-1 Lieutenant)
AMA, I will be honest on both good and bad things
Did you get lost today?
was lucky enough to grow up learning map and compass land nav since I was in my early teens, and have a completely flawless land nav record with a single exception, where one point was <40m away from another
Other LTs were not so lucky and it shows
I unironically think I was selected for Field Artillery because I scored a perfect score on Land Nav written and practical tests at Advanced Camp and Arty does a lot of maps
shut the fuck up. sir.
>I unironically think I was selected for Field Artillery because I scored a perfect score on Land Nav written and practical tests at Advanced Camp and Arty does a lot of maps
>he doesn't know they just throw darts at a board to assign MOS
probably, but under the new Talent Assessment Battery program each branch has their own selection criteria. Considering Field Artillery along with ADA are fast-growing branches since they've downsized during GWOT, I don't think it takes much to get rated 'most preferred', provided you mostly fit their profile
we are going to whack you in the testicles with car antennae until you die, no offense
>put chem as my 3rd preference for free hazmat certs
>but Chem anything except the absolute bottom
I hate to break it to you but if you put them in your top 3 you deserve this.
>was lucky enough to grow up learning map and compass land nav
I genuinely don't get why this isn't part of the basic education. Should be required to know basic navigation and be able to build a fire etc to graduate high school.
>Should be required to know basic navigation and be able to build a fire etc to graduate high school
even worse than that, my universities is in the Rocky Mountains, so when we went out to practice land navigation as a cadet we had extremally authentic training
Some ROTCs do not have this. Too urban, shitty schools, etc. meant that when they finally got to Ft. Knox for their assessment, it was their first experience with doing anything in an actual forest. Just one of many reasons that quality among cadets/lieutenants varies WILDLY.
same reason they don't teach cursive anymore
Cursive was never useful.
imagine thinking schools are for anything but programming wagies abd commisars
No one wants to ask you questions, retard, you're a glorified private.
you can seethe, but I'll answer questions about being an O in a thread about being an O
this, disrespectfully go fuck yourself Zir
>t. disgruntled E-4
Are modern artillery systems point and click?
Like can you put down a gun somewhere on flat ground, maybe calibrate some things i don't know, then point somewhere on a map on a ballistic computer and get a firing solution, lay the gun, load the right charge and bada bing bada boom?
Or do you still have to manually calculate things?
both, I'll explain:
We have AFATADS, which is a computerized system which *can* be faster, more accurate, and capable if instantly giving more nuanced Fire Commands to the Howitzers... if it's working
Some time in the past, with the invention of AFATADS, they stopped teaching Artillerymen, both enlisted and officers, how to perform manual "charts and darts" artillery, and when AFATDS, being a computer prone to fucking up just like any other piece of electronically-powered, complicated machinery went down, the entire King of Battle looked like a bunch of inept chumps.
Now, at least on the Officer side, they teach both. The first thing we learned was manual (which is fucking difficult and the reason FABOLC is considered among the most difficult in the Army) and then computerized.
The current understanding, and depending on which unit you go to, they want hybrid Fire Direction Centers which calculate both manually and computerized, both for checks on accurate firing data, and for the sake that in the event that the AFATADS goes down, we are not out of the fight.
What do you think about the new autonomous artillery systems? From what I understand they can aim themselves, and some MLRS ones I've seen can drive themselves too.
It seems like the dream is to have them so well integrated with spotter drones that the drones, which are possibly fired in from artillery or MLRS, launched by infantry, or even coming off high altitude balloons. Then fire back a location, the artillery can aim itself and fire if the mission is approved. Target recognition software could even prioritize fire missions by target value and recommend appropriate weapons/munitions for the target for officers to approve in the long run.
Seems great, but it also seems like one of those things that might be 20+ years away in reality.
Also, ever used those EFP shells? Seems like a way to hit even fast moving vehicles with artillery and maybe get past active protection provided the target detection works.
Do you know the Allton-Ligons gym?
yes, but it convenient but it is small. Battery PT is done outside almost all the time and Allton-Ligons is used mostly for staff and cadre at Bravo Battery.
Fires Fitness and Reinhardt are larger and more popular.
>AMA, I will be honest on both good and bad things
where did you get this high school picture of me?
I am outside your window
There is also a totally different mentality between the NCOs and the Os, and I think one suits a differnt personality profile more than the other. When you've been in long enough with a high enough E rank, the pay is more than comparable.
Probably the downsides of relying on a strong NCO Corp to see us through some of the worst of it. Though to be fair, this is more vitriol on the internet than irl. I have experienced nothing but outright professionalism with extremely rare with only one exception from anyone E6 or higher, and complaining Privates/Specialists on the internet should not be taken too seriously.
I never had a PL I didn't like serving under, granted I had some COs make shit fucking gay, but I never had a PL that didn't try to shield us from the most ridiculous autism from higher. I also only had one PSG that I absolutely loathed, the rest were great with one being my favorite leader I ever had with my favorite PL being in charge of us at the same time.
if you were commanded to fire upon civilians would you do it?
no, but I think it is understated in modern warfare that even with good intentions, if civilians do not join the refugee train to gtfo of the warzone, the chances that they die from absolutely anything but ESPECIALLY artillery are huge. People have this weird mentality about war where they think it's like cops or something and you just record shit on your smartphone and are magically immune to things
>What do you think about the new autonomous artillery systems?
above my paygrade
I can tell you that towed howtzers, especially M777s, just take WAY TOO FUCKING LONG to emplace and displace, and the counterbattery fire threat is just way too high to be that slow. Something has to change in that area.
>Also, ever used those EFP shells?
no, we've gotten to play with EXCAL rounds at the absolute coolest, but FABOLC isn't giving out special munitions like candy to a bajillion TRADOC LTs.
>do i really have to go to ranger school
>above my paygrade
I can tell you that towed howtzers, especially M777s, just take WAY TOO FUCKING LONG to emplace and displace, and the counterbattery fire threat is just way too high to be that slow. Something has to change in that area.
This is a matter of crew training. Yes, they do take longer than M119 but a proficient crew can get it done in short order. It's a marked difference from the ad hoc crew comprised of new LTs. Also, there's a reason that your FDC will not be located on the gun line. Start getting it into your head that if the big war kicks off, the enemy has a say in things too and your combat capabilities will be attrited.
t. Went through FA OBC during GWOT.
We're all scum, Johnny. We're all scum.
i'm a gs-12/13 with non-DOD but with a lot of retirees in my field. Just turned 25 and getting a bit of FOMO about actually serving, but at the same time I've got a comfy secure job that pays way better. And I don't have to go to Bragg/Polk/Drum etc etc
>Just turned 25 and getting a bit of FOMO
Nah, don't. There's a reason most people get out after 4 years.
You average US commissioned officer
>officer or enlisted?
officers are the bourgeois of the military and therefore intrinsically evil.
Until all Enlisted can enter the officer training path as easily they can with noncom courses then it is classist and wrong in the eyes of Almighty God, as only he is above anyone.
>officers are the bourgeois of the military and therefore intrinsically evil.
if we are going to make this analogy, the officership is at best class traitors/lumpenprole while the congressmen that literally own the military are bourgeois.
Of course you can always try and run things like the early Red Army and get spanked in Poland because you unironically thought classless democracy would work in something as unforgiving to ideology as war because you're a nasty little communist
TL;DR go find a field to die in like a real bolshevik
moron, you better be joking
is he wrong?
>Until all Enlisted can enter the officer training path as easily they can with noncom courses
They can. Literally just go to college and apply
Historically the common soldiery with red coats was little more than convicts and street thugs and people offered enlistment in place of execution https://bjmh.gold.ac.uk/article/download/625/747/
Their junior officers were little more than the sons of country squires bought a commission by their parents and with no relevant skills other than knowing how to ride and hunt
It’s a wonder they didn’tmutiny on their officers because it’s the equivalent to putting a twink in charge of a Wagner penal company
>It’s a wonder they didn’tmutiny on their officers
I think you might be underestimating how much this DID happen, especially in navies, but also
>because it’s the equivalent to putting a twink in charge of a Wagner penal company
you are possibly indulging in leftist propaganda that every nobleman was a soft, delusional pansy who were only in charge by a bizarre accident of sociology and not educated warrior caste who spent centuries perfecting the art of justifying their rule by cunning and strength from the early middle ages to as late as the early 20th century
What again did the squirearchy ever have in qualifications other than their hunting and other pass times?
t. family is technically titled nobility but turned out useless anyways
>What again did the squirearchy ever have in qualifications
a Squire was in the process of *earning* their qualifications by assisting and being trained by a Knight who was the penultimate warrior-noble of Europe
>>t. disgruntled E-4
I've known too many Specialists for your words to have any sting. Your boos mean nothing, I have seen what makes y'all cheer.
You’re conflating medieval organization with the squirearchy from early modern https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/uk-squirearchy.htm
The descendants of those knights became the people in Brontë and Austen, the country squires. And they’d send their surplus sons to lead
Hereditary knights were really just a continental idea although there as well they dominated leadership. For better or worse who knows but being educated doesn’t guarantee leadership
What's the difference between a brigade and a regiment in the US? Is the regiment always part of a division, but the brigade is free standing like the Infantry/Armored/Stryker Brigade Combat Team structure? Sort of akin to the Battalion Tactical Group, but not quite so small?
The BTG seems like a bad idea, too small. BCT seems like a decent idea if you're mostly doing police actions in the third world, but it still seems like division if not corps level operations would be what you'd want to be most proficient in for any major war.
My understanding was that the US was shifting back to division centric organization. I think the problem for first world nations, maybe less so for the US, is that low man power and small standing armies means that division centered organization makes it so that your active duty is harder to backfill with reserves.
Autonomous systems will probably keep offsetting the need for manpower as they get better but you'll still need trained soldiers to use them effectively.
Then again, shit is so expensive, it's hard to imagine anything even on the scale of the UN in Korea, 3 corps with 13+ divisions each.
A BCT is combined arms. A regiment is all one arm.
Tbh the argument over BCT vs division is mostly on paper. Modern BCTs with attachments are often as large as old divs and streamlined divisions are often nearly the size of BCTs. It's more the following: everyone agrees the practical unit cap is somewhere around 6k and everyone agrees there's about 1 level too many in the command chain between battalion-brigade-division; but the officers higher on the ladder have more political power and more jobs for their friends if the upper level is called a division.
Why did they get rid of RTC? It seemed like a good organization and worked well in the war
Regiments aren't really a thing anymore and exist in name and tradition only. For all purposes the brigade is the standard yardstick of the army now.
I don't get why someone would become a high ranking NCO in any of the branches. Just get a cadetship? Like, help me understand what the logic is with staying an NCO all your career.
I'm going to only reiterate what a Green-to-Gold guy I went through ROTC and FABOLC has told me:
Once you've spent that amount of time in and achieved that much seniority on the enlisted side, simply climbing the top of your ladder and enjoying its pay and prestige is tempting. Any goober with a college degree could become a Lieutenant (even if they aren't a good one) and there is a lot of pride in the NCO Corp, who rightfully see themselves as the backbone of the army. You can catch a lot of flake for "betraying" the NCO Corp by deciding to commission.
He chose to Commission because he said he wanted to go back to his unit and fix things in a way that only an officer can, but only an NCO would really know. He had gripes about SNCOs who were honestly shit but no O, especially a Junior O, would be able to understand or do much about.
Seems like he made the right choice. So the only downside is the crabs in a bucket mentality of other NCOs? Kinda pathetic. What's the pride in doing admin like an officer but getting paid less?
NCOs who think they're tough shit is a solely American thing
Other first world militaries don't have NCOs who think they're too good for officers
Even Bong corpos would never shit on their Lefty unless he's too dogshit
The 'crabs in a bucket' isn't a problem; it's a deliberate thing to ensure talent stays at tactical levels instead of peter principling to their level of incompetence.
The problem with the Peter Principle is that by strict definition everyone in any position is at their level of incompetence and it comes with an assumption that people will not recognize inadequacies or seek to improve their capabilities.
As a former Army Officer I can say that enlisted jobs are generally much more fun. The primary benefit of being an Officer is that you can disagree with your superiors (behind closed doors) and they will generally let you do what you want so long as your accomplishing the broad objectives assigned to you. Also you don't have to take orders from some retard...you get to be the retard giving them!
I HATE SINCGARS
I HATE SKLS
I HATE JCRS
I HATE ANTENNAS
I HATE HAVING EIGHTY DIFFERENT CABLES
I HATE PULLING COMSEC
I HATE RADIOS DROPPING FILL
I HATE RADIOS NOT TAKING FILL
MAKE IT STOP
Learn to code and get a job. The military is a waste of time also you might get deployed or get injured in the military and comeback looking like a zombie or without arms or legs or even blind
Let the goyim fight go get a job
im a 2lt
do i really have to go to ranger school
i just want to reach o-3 and then get out
If you go to 25th ID, you do.
>source: Am at 25th ID, and there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
who's the highest rank of any military to post on PrepHole?
You think we ever had a US army general make a shitpost here out of curiosity
For what it's worth, I retired at E8. I'm a conventional nuclear tard now. Let me find my DD214.
>cooler uniform (at least for usmc)
Is this even a real question
Naval Officer uniform > USMC Officer's uniform
Fuck the military, this shit sucks man. Should have gone in as some finance/personnelist fuckboy
Enlightenment lies in understanding that warrant officers have the strengths of both, and the weaknesses of neither. A CW-5 cannot be killed by mortal men.