https://defence24.pl/przemysl/napedy-i-uzbrojenie-z-korei-snt-dynamics-z-oferta-dla-polski-analiza
No more meddling from krauts.
K2PL will adopt Korean engine + transmission
https://defence24.pl/przemysl/napedy-i-uzbrojenie-z-korei-snt-dynamics-z-oferta-dla-polski-analiza
No more meddling from krauts.
lol poles still can't manufactur their own basic shit. Engine and transmission, if they can't even do that, what makes anyone think they can do sensors or APS? No wonder all the KRAB delivered to Ukraine got btfo'd.
And of course they can't stop thinking about the germans
engine and transmission are literally the hardest parts of tank to make retard
Lol. LMFAO even.
there are like 3 countries on this planet able to produce modern tank engine and transmission and there is reason for that
>Germany
>US
who is the third one? Japan?
probably Japs and if Bongs didn't kill off the majority of their heavy industry them. Because somehow that fat bitch Challenger 2 does move
Russia
XD, if you don't intend to ever reverse
It's design choice like Comrade Stalin wanted
You want take back that statement very slowly?
No.
developing modern diesel engine from zero makes no sense unless you are China. It would cost more than entire Polish tank fleet, take like 20 years to develop, and in the end it would still suck compared to engines developed by countries with more expeirence
This. Only the US, Germany and South Korea have the expertise + scale on tank engines. Same goes for smooth bore main guns although the r&d is substantially less than engine developmebt.
I'd say France and Japan too. Oddly, not China since their stuff is just straight up lisenced German and Russian stuff. Russia effectively cannot make new tank engines and transmissions.
France maybe but Japan may have the know how but lacks the national will to produce them on a meaningful scale
>France maybe but Japan may have the know how but lacks the national will to produce them on a meaningful scale
>He doesn't know Japan has more MBTs than France.
> retard
And yet there have been nearly 1000 leclercs built compared to less than 100 type 10s
>third largest european country
vs
>island nation, 70% of it's terrain unsuitable for a heavy MBT
they built ~850 leclercs and ~340 Type 90s, those seem pretty good numbers to me
Japan legally doesn't allow weapon exports. And they very obviously don't have the terrain domestically to field a large tank force. Japan simply isn't built for it geographically.
In terms of power density, the Japanese tank power packs are some of the best in the world.
Why is this lie perpetuates here? Japan has tried many times to export weapons to include subs to Australia and the Philippines but nobody wants them, simply not competitive relative to what is available on the market
Why do YOU repeat this lie? Japan has allowed what they deem as defensive systems for export only.
Here is from July of 2023
>Japan's ruling parties agreed Wednesday that the nation can export non-combat cars and vessels equipped with lethal weapons, despite its strict restrictions on overseas shipments of weapons
Japan has had a handful of export attempts and most countries aren't interested because of the price, not that they don't like what Japan has to offer. There has also been some hesitation that Japan might not be a reliable arms partner long term if Japan's government decides to stop allowing exports again.
> subs, the most lethal offensive weapons system on the planet
Japan lost to France on subs because the Japanese subs were simply inferior to even sub-par French boats…then US/UK cucked France with even better boats
Japan only offers subs with torpedo capabilities, no cruise missiles, no ballistic missiles.
They're clearly not offensive subs.
Yup and why japanese subs are inferior, destroys the legitimacy of their navy as subs are the primary assets in naval warfare doctrine
Lol okay asiaticshill, why don't we just stop this charade?
We all know you're a asiatic that will shit on japan at every opportunity even when you have to make shit up to do it.
France and Japan have produced much more tanks with domestic powerpacks than South Korea has done. As far as gen3+ goes they've done 800+ and 400+ while there's only like a few dozen of K2s with a domestic powerpack, and K2 is Korea's first domestic tank..
The K2 is arguably the best tank in the world, Leclercs and Types are simply thirdie tanks not fit for NATO exports
the K2 copied french tech kek
>the K2 copied french tech kek
More like perfected. K2 doesn't have the biggest weakness of Leclerc, its gun shield.
this is a war thunder player. armor gaps don't matter in real life
It does when your frontal armor has a giant gap with 30mm thickness.
see
>if they can't even do that, what makes anyone think they can do sensors or APS?
Hardest part of tank to make, lmfao.
That's like arguing that hull welding is the hardest part, because only one country in europe can do it (greece). Which is retarded and wrong, it is so easy to do that it doesn't make sense doing it yourself, you just outsource it. Just like engines and transmissions, they are fucking easy to do, but it's just faster and cheaper to buy them because it's such a non-issue.
>Just like engines and transmissions, they are fucking easy to do, but it's just faster and cheaper to buy them because it's such a non-issue.
They aren't easy though. If they were so easy it would make more sense to just do it in house to maintain the skilled labor. We have seen the exact opposite of it being easy though.
>South Korea which has a pretty strong construction vehicle industry with large diesel engine manufacturing has struggled for almost 2 decades to make a 1500hp powerpack work.
>Turkey has been trying to do the same for roughly the same amount of time and is still like a decade off from having a reliable PP.
>Italy wanted to up-engine their C1 Ariete and had to settle with just increasing the bore of their existing design
>Russia has been stuck using what is basically an upgraded T-34 engine in their T-72s and T-90s. The T-80 GT engine is treated as a failure and the T-14 engine is a piece of shit
>China's only successful 1500hp engine is a chink knockoff of a Germany engine.
If it was so easy there wouldn't be a bunch of failure stories.
>They aren't easy though. If they were so easy it would make more sense to just do it in house to maintain the skilled labor. We have seen the exact opposite of it being easy though.
I literally gave you a fucking counter example and told you exactly why you wouldn'T "just do it in house" - because it's cheaper to let someone else do it
But yeah, obviously all those russian tanks in Ukraine are getting btfo'd because their engines and transimissions are bad. Not because of shitty sensors, armor, APS, accuracy, stability, suspension, range or firepower
It's always the polish shill thread wich has the dumbest people in it.
>I literally gave you a fucking counter example and told you exactly why you wouldn'T "just do it in house" - because it's cheaper to let someone else do it
And I'm saying many have tried and failed. If they just wanted the easy route there wouldn't be so many failures. Your fantasy land where everyone just buys MT883 without trying to maintain a domestic industry doesn't exist. People buy German or American because they can't do it on their own.
>But yeah, obviously all those russian tanks in Ukraine are getting btfo'd because their engines and transimissions are bad. Not because of shitty sensors, armor, APS, accuracy, stability, suspension, range or firepower
Are you retarded? Nowhere did I bring up Ukraine or actual performance in conflict. I just said the Russians are stuck using T-34 engines in their vehicles because developing diesel engines for tanks is difficult. Quit being so fucking mind broken about that retarded war.
>Not because of shitty sensors, armor, APS, accuracy, stability, suspension, range or firepower
the technical capabilities of tanks have essentially been unimportant in ukraine seeing as a vast majority die to artillery and mines and tank duels have been exceedingly rare
I would say the better armor was a good factor, that and mobility. I do agree on the other points though, the extensive minefields and mass artillery usage is just too brutal for solely using armored warfare in any meaningful way
I just don't understand this. The US spends 773 billion on its military. It has fucking ICMBs, state of the art fighter planes, but somehow developing a 1500hp diesel tank engine is beyond it's capabilities?
It's just not worth it, GE/Honywell developed a drop in upgrade powerpack that weighs less, is more efficient, etc, did testing in the early 2000s without issue but it would be expensive as fuck to re-engine all those abrams.
Only real hope is the announced Abrams replacement will do away with it.
>Just like engines and transmissions, they are fucking easy to do
>t. never changed the oil and filters on his scooter, much less a car
KYS
>there are like 3 countries on this planet able to produce modern tank engine and transmission
Actually i would argue just 1.
>and there is reason for that
Yup 80 years of experience and enough export customers during the post-cold-war bankrupcy era to stay afloat thanks to excellent products -> monopoly today.
>>US
Heli turbine with 2x the fuel consumption and 10x air consumption requiring gigantic filters and producting a massive IR signature doesn't count as a functional engine ... Diesel or fuck off.
>Bongs didn't kill off the majority of their heavy industry them. Because somehow that fat bitch Challenger 2 does move
Heaviest tank in the world (70 tons) with the weakest engine in all of NATO (1200 HP instead of the usual standard 1500 HP) ontop of that famously unreliable.
Yeah, real winner propulsion on that chally.
At least it has a teapot i guess.
>This. Only the US, Germany and South Korea have the expertise + scale on tank engines
Uh no. The US can't build a tank diesel, and south korea copied the german engine 1:1
It's really just germany.
>Also, the faulty parts in the previous version were made by kraut slackers.
Somehow the same transmission works flawlessly in several thousand NATO tanks in 30 other countries.
>Turks had been so desperate
Cause we hit them with embargo due to muh human rights, not technical reasons.
>I'd say France
Last tank engines the french build (in the leclerc) is based on hyperbar tech licensed from MTU. MTU abandoned the idea, the leclerc engine is almost as thirsty as the abrams turbine. Complete trash.
>and Japan too.
The MHI is unimpressive in specs for a 2000's engine compared to even Europowerpack from 1980, yet alone the MTU 892.
>Somehow the same transmission works flawlessly in several thousand NATO tanks in 30 other countries.
No one said it was a transmission. It was a gearbox unit provided by ZF with wrongly bolted in housing as if someone was intentionally trying to sabotage the whole progress, which is even specified in the report.
Guess whose subsidiary it is now.
Anyways all of which have been fixed by now as the localization effort has been successful and it was able to export it to countries that are sanctioned by krauts, so it is a happy ending I guess.
>Heli turbine with 2x the fuel consumption and 10x air consumption requiring gigantic filters and producting a massive IR signature doesn't count as a functional engine ... Diesel or fuck off.
Honeywell AGT1500 is a functioning engine you retard.
Just because you krauts are technologically far superior.
They have PTSD ok, cut them some slack.
>No wonder all the KRAB delivered to Ukraine got btfo'd.
May we see them?
Most subtle vatnik.
It's either Hans Holokaust from East Berlin oblast or Jan Kowalski from Bapшaвa..
Meanwhile Russian tanks literally use an copy of an American engine from the 30s
V-84MS is not a copy of an American engine.
>a transmission that still not works correctly, so even the third batch of K2s still runs on Renk transmissions
>>a transmission that still not works correctly, so even the third batch of K2s still runs on Renk transmissions
Was. ftfy.
Also, the faulty parts in the previous version were made by kraut slackers. Now that the foreign components have been completely localized, there are no more suffering.
https://www.defensehere.com/en/high-chances-of-seeing-korean-powerpack-in-turkish-altay-mbt
Turks had been so desperate that they did a free beta testing for the manufacturer because it had no other choice other than delaying the program altogether until a new substitute shows up, so it was either take it or leave it situation there, and it worked out for them, the Korean transmission successfully managed to pass the trials.
The only reason why it wasn't adopted in the 3rd batch of K2, is for lack of time for testing. Now that it has seen its service in a known country, the problem is resolved and will likely be adopted from the 4th batch after a few minor evaluation processes.
You realise this slide doesn't prove anything, right? Esp. bc it's about the Altay, not the K2.
source
>it's about the Altay, not the K2.
Have you been living in a cave? Turks became the first customer for the first fully Korean powerpack.
http://www.koreapost.com/news/articleViewAmp.html?idxno=31326
>SNT Dynamics signed an export contract with Turkiye BMC on Jan. 30 for 1,500 horsepower automatic transmission to be installed in Altay's main battle tanks (MBT).
>This export to Turkiye is the first export contract of K-defense this year and the first case that led to overseas exports by independently developing core defense parts for high-cost tanks.
>In the future, it is expected that there will be significant backward effects in new overseas exports and MRO (Maintenance, Repair, Overhaul) fields in global defense markets such as the U.S., Europe, and the Middle East.
>SNT Dynamics announced that it will supply the 1500 horsepower automatic transmission, which costs 68.93 million euros, from this year to 2027, to BMC, a Turkiye tank system company.
>SNT Dynamics' export contract was made after it completely passed the applicability test evaluation, including durability test, which was carried out for eight months last year on Altay's main battle tanks in Turkiye.
>SNT Dynamics' automatic transmission proved its excellent performance in a total of 18 performance test evaluations, including forward and backward acceleration performance, maximum speed, braking distance, standing rotation, and the back of longitudinal and transverse slope.
>"The Korean government officials and agencies, including the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, the Defense Science Institute, the Defense Technology Quality Institute, and the Defense Technology Promotion Institute, helped our company develop the world's first six-speed automatic transmission for 1,500 horsepower tanks," a SNT Dynamics official said.
https://www.defensehere.com/en/high-chances-of-seeing-korean-powerpack-in-turkish-altay-mbt
>He also touched on the deal signed with Türkiye saying “This powerpack Korean powerpack has completed all types of harsh tests in Türkiye and the Turkish government decided to use this powerpack for their Serial Production Altay Tank program.”
>Hur also mentioned that SNT Dynamics is also working with S.Korea’s government to integrate powerpack in the next phase of the K2 main battle tank program.
Fuck around and find out. Krauts are on an all out damage control.
That's an offer from SNT, not a deal
Will they even go ahead with this shit now that their government has been dechudified?
>K2PL will adopt Korean engine + transmission
Did you mean: Korean copy of a german MTU engine and Renk transmission?
Don't forget the german Rheinmetall gun and german Diehl tracks and the german Zeiss optics on this VERY POLISH tank.
>Don't forget the german Rheinmetall gun
The CN08 is Korean
>german Zeiss optics
The optics are just an evolution of what the K1 used which is the domestic KGPS and the French SAGEM commanders sight.
>The CN08 is Korean
Yeah, a korean copy of a german gun.
No, you dumbass. Not everything is copied from Germany. Stop parroting the retarded myth about ''muh German technology''. Krauts haven't made a fucking breakthrough in military tech since 1945.
It's rather a copy of Abrams gun, and not a copy but based on
So? Why haven't the krauts just sue the Koreans for IP infringement?
Germany approved SK for EU equal status for arms imports into EU this year, only non-EU nation with this status, if anything Germany is trying to build closer relations with SK
lol no. Reminds me of that retarded story of Airbus wanting to build those Korean trainer jets from 2022
> airbus wants to partner with kai its well known publicly in the industry
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/11/farewell-to-the-afjt-airbus-wants-to-promote-the-kai-fa-50-in-western-europe/
SK has never used Rh-120 L55. The closeat thing they've got was KM256, which is a license produced version of M68 used by Abrams. How can they copy a product that they never obtained?
>Don't forget the german Rheinmetall gun and german Diehl tracks and the german Zeiss optics on this VERY POLISH tank
I love how none of these things are correct
>The MHI is unimpressive in specs for a 2000's engine
How so?
Japan has everything, from the standard 1500hp powerpack, CVT powerpack to enable 70km/h forward/reverse drive, 3000hp powerpack, to hybrid powerpack, to power any kind of heavy combat vehicle with topnotch performance and efficiency. In fact turks approached Japan in 2013 for Altey powerpack supply and failed due to weapon tech export restrictions.
>3000hp engine
Put that in a Type 90 for fun
This is a Mil/Ind Complex thread now.
Me/k/anics welcome.
Well. Whilst I didnt work on the ATGs directly I have rebuilt my fair share of cooling fan transmissions.
Personaly, I would like to see a wave of new production systems instead of revamped 40-70 year old systems that are just barely going to croak along till they are so expensive to maintain that it limits what can be procured to replace it just because "hurr we already got them".
We will not get to see huge factory halls and giant assembly lines for armament systems anymore. With the effectiveness and cost of systems rising the numbers will be smaller but have to be procured and produced at a steady pace with the agility to implement evolutionary change in systems as necessity, preminision or whim requires. A continuous, steady, yet "slow" production enables the maintenance and spread of capability to adapt.
Imagine being so unsettled by Germany that this is noteworthy news for you
if you wanna have a laugh just search for "Niemcy" on twitter and translate some polish tweets. genuinely more schizo then Russian nationalists.
>No more meddling from krauts.
Yeah. Watch this retard canceling it all with one simple trick.
>first post is a long-winded complaint and dressing-down of OP's object of discussion
how bout that
>Korean tank will use Korean engine system
>this is somehow news
Were the germans unironically trying to cuck the Poles just because they saw shekels in the water for servicing/parts costs for 1000 K2's?
Koreans had problems with developing powerpacks, first they had to use full German powerpacks, once they figured engine they still needed German transmissions
>oh a tank thread about a niche topic with 77 replies, neat
>it's literally just polish seething
Man...
more like asiaticshill in the disguise of butthurt polack
Rent free
Kraut genocide any day
He's a vatnik shill posing as a krautshill
Poland is essentially a nation of complete morons, on the same scale as Russia.
Most all of Europe either uses Leos or Abrams, but Pierogies have to buy Abrams and a Korean tank to complicate their logistics.
Remember when Pooland tried to create a hypermodern "stealth tank" and couldn't?
Watch until the gulf states start hoarding K2 and Chunmoo instead of muh leo, muh abrams, and muh himars. K9 is already making progress in the market and it is just a harbinger to what's about to come.
I don't want to sound overly insulting but it doesn't really matter in what kind of tank the sandnaggers drive around and fail at war, does it?
It does when they buy thousands of them. Egypt alone has bought $1.6 billion worth of K9 and K10.
Poland is the first country in Europe with Abrams you absolute retard. And literally every big military except US has multiple tank models in service. And only reason why US only has Abrams is Cold War ending and no serious threat appearing for 30 years.
Now that China is dangerous they are getting second tank type.
>And literally every big military except US
Care to list some of these 'big militaries'?
The cv90 with plastic cope wrapping will never get old kek
I think it's hard to forget that Poland only became a semi-first world country like 7 years ago