I don't think Germany appreciates how thoroughly the K2 is going to take marketshare from the Leopard 2 in coming years because the Germans put too many restrictions on the Leos and won't allow enough to be license built by other countries. The Koreans are happy to do tech transfers and set up local manufacturing.
Germany does not produce Leopard2 any more, and despite the ukraine war it doesn't intend to either. Building up a new production line would be too expensive for export partners, when korea has their k2 up and running because they actually need large numbers of it. The rest of europe doesn't likely want large numbers of tanks anyway, except poland (who will not buy german for political reasons).
>Germany does not produce Leopard2 any more, and despite the ukraine war it doesn't intend to either
There are still about a thousand A4s awaiting upgrades, it doesn't make sense to produce new tanks when upgrading unused old ones is cheaper. America does the same.
But you're still wrong because there's still at least one factory in Greece producing brand new hulls.
Yes they do? The fabrication of new hulls is done by a company in Greece, but the turret is built and assembled at Kassel, and the hulls are assembled and mated with the turret in Munich
Poland had multiple year long issue with modernizing german tanks. Issue started under very pro-german government so I'm not sure if it can be called political though.
Not entirely true. There were 2 offers for Leo2PL, one by Rheinmetall and one by KMW. Second one was more expensive because KMW recognized that if you slap multiple tons of armor and equipment onto a suspension that was designed for much lighter earlier versions, shit is going to break. That shit is torsion bar mounting points which are the bane of every Leo2 upgrade program.
Rheinmetall offer was cheaper since they were like nah you dont need that expensive hull upgrade, it's gonna be fine. It was not fine. Microcracks in hulls of the prototypes appeared, and hulls had to be redone after all anyway.
Poland actually wanted to buy K2s ever since they were first envisioned by Korea in early 2000s, with Leopard 2A4s serving as a stopgap.
They were supposed to be one of first foreign buyers in around 2014, with the K2PL "Wilk", but Germans blocked the export to Poland on the grounds of K2 using German RENK-made transmissions.
Koreans only figured out domestic transmission in 2020 so the purchase was probably inevitable even without the war in Ukraine.
The funny part is that Poland just ordered over 200 Renk transmissions for their K2's. So Germans suddenly no longer see the problem in exporting them.
>except poland (who will not buy german for political reasons).
Not true, they won't buy German ANYMORE because of shit support. The tanks wouldn't be broken down all the time if the Germans would sell spare parts and training, or even MAKE them.
>because the Germans put too many restrictions on the Leos and won't allow enough to be license built by other countries
Not only were the restrictions the norm in arms deals, Leo production and procurement also has the least and Leos and their parts are the most license built tanks of any western tank worldwide.
More than the K2 as well.
Why is every anti-German poster always either lying or just repeating dumb bullshit unquestioningly about this shit?
you're a moron.
Koreans have been so good about tech transfer than not only is Turkey making their own copies of the K2/K9, they're exporting them as well.
The funny thing is that krauts like you still think they have anything to be proud of even after an entire year of the german government being putin's b***h at every turn.
Which is the exception not a rule and will stop immediately once they get a foothold in Europe.
Everything you called a lie there is completely factual you illiterate fricking Black person.
Wrong.
And the K2 is a way newer tank than the Leopard 2 and has only recently been licensed or sold to other countries. That's why fewer have been built abroad you syphilitic c**t.
I corrected somebody being objectively wrong and you had to sperg out about it lmao
Stop being so insecure.
>There are still about a thousand A4s awaiting upgrades
Most of which Germany is not in posession of.
Pretty irrelevant since they still come to Germany for upgrades.
Unless you think Germany should have 1000 of the newest Leo2s standing around for no reason.
Everything you initially claimed was factually wrong and can be proven as such with less than 5 minutes of Googling. Burn yourself alive you reality-detached subhuman.
And the K2 is a way newer tank than the Leopard 2 and has only recently been licensed or sold to other countries. That's why fewer have been built abroad you syphilitic c**t.
Yeah, people are tiring of German bullshit. I think a big reason CV90s and Patrias have become so popular (other than being generally great vehicles) is that the companies and countries involved are so easy to deal with compared with competitors.
I doubt it matters energy and personal (qualified) shortage will make production Germany almost impossible for anything else than the BW itself, if that.
>there is no energy shortage
Well it is there and hence production is dropping inalmost every industry. >assembly line work
No it’s not. The assembly line work you are thinking of does barley amount to 10 percent of all labor hours.
Well no, it actualyl isn't there outside vatBlack person propaganda delusions. Buit keep being moronic and claiming otherwise while german industry is still reporting growth.
The one who isn’t the sharpest knife in drawer. 20 percent less energy consumption equals almost 20 percent less production, because German industry was already optimized for high energy costs. 15 percent true inflation means minus 2 percent GDP „growth“ means people have lost 13 percent of the purchasing power.
I think Russia also has economic troubles ahead. But what would you know or even understand.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>people have lost 13 percent of the purchasing power
European gas storage is at record highs for this time of year and there is record wind generation happening, along with the French nuclear fleet coming back online from maintenance and things.like record heat pump installation.
Stab yourself in the fricking throat. It's the only way you'll escape being hunted down and brained with a claw hammer.
>record gas storage
Your issue is you don’t understand that getting the gas in the storage was extremely expensive meaning unless we build new coal power plants and get old coal power plants back online Germany won’t be able to build any significant amount of new industry.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Just build nuclear you morons
1 year ago
Anonymous
JUST TURN YOUR NUKE POWER PLANTS BACK ON YOU moronS
I have some knowledge and I can tell you nuclear was never that great. kW/h are much more expensive, if they are generated by nuclear power plants once you factor in subventions for building and development and especially unknown future cost (dismantling and future storage). In fact building nuclear power plants was mostly possible due to having cheap coal based energy. Nuclear stations create cheap electric energy, but most chemical plants need thermal energy. Which adds conversion cost/energy loses. Currently France is importing German energy because of trouble with their power plants. They even have flown in specialized welding crews from the US. On top of it building modern 3 plus or 4th generation nuclear power plants in accordance with current standards and knowledge it would mean that electricity produced by nuclear power plants is going to be much more expensive. That is why most of the reactors are almost 40 years old. Conservatives are fooled by climate extremists into supporting nuclear by their CO2 nonsense. It’s because they know that nuclear is not even an option.
We need better filters, more efficient burners and better mining techniques with regards to coal as energy resource. But it’s already the best we have.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Nuclear stations create cheap electric energy, but most chemical plants need thermal energy
I meant cheap on paper, if you don’t factor in the true cost.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>g*rman moronation
Take a good look bros, this shit rivals vatniks and their banan-flavored copium.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The plants already exist anon. They are perfectly servicable and in fine shape. They only dont fit scary nooks agenda and large amounts of graft somoene took to replace them with gas plants.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Research it. Germany has little use for nuclear power plants mining uranium is not really an option although it has been done in Germany. Coal is existential for German independence. That’s what’s cheap and that’s what we have. Than we can also import some gas and we aren’t susceptible to cartels or oligopolies.
The right has been conditioned to give up coal, but in reality for those without gas it’s the best option.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Wild how your own lcoe prices completely disprove this claim. Die mad, miner b***h.
1 year ago
Anonymous
It’s so simple they tricked GOP normie goobers into buying the CO2 anthropogenic climate change hoax. Now they advocate the unreasonable nuclear power plants instead of the reasonable coal power plants. The true cost of nuclear energy are much higher than the officially published ones, while it’s the exact same opposite with the coal based energy costs. They are much lower, if you subtract their stupid taxes and other kinds of shenanigans.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>It's a tually much cheaper if you use magic calculations that don't exist in the real world
Cope and seeth you insufferable little b***h.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>muh green nuclear
I certainly won’t stop you from being fooled by libtards.
Read on OL3 in Finnland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olkiluoto_Nuclear_Power_Plant
Unit 3 in Flamanville France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plant
Or Vogtle 3 and 4 in the Us
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Plant
Hinkley Point C in Britain
People going insane
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/13/revealed-suicide-alarm-hinkley-point-c-construction-site
well that’s understandable you might interject it’s Britain after all
Yes, but they can’t even drive a bus there
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/17/bus-crash-somerset-hinkley-point-workers-injured/
Nuclear power plants in the west are almost all 35 plus years old most of them 40 plus.
It’s just silly delusions to think it’s going to
the next big thing. But that’s exactly were all the climate extremist want to have you.
1 year ago
Anonymous
So with WEF sponsored CO2 certificates and nuclear nonsense mass production is just not going to happen sorry boys.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Peru tested the K2 and Leopard 2 and were surprised that the Korean engines actually performed better especially after the issues Korea had in developing them. I think so far all they've left to perfect is the transmissions.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I think so far all they've left to perfect is the transmissions.
It's done. They've successfully reverse engineered the ECU of its German counterpart that the localization rate hits over 90% now. It's currently exported to Turkey for use in its Altay MBT.
1 year ago
Anonymous
JUST TURN YOUR NUKE POWER PLANTS BACK ON YOU moronS
The Leo 2 is only so widespread because Germany wanted to get rid of it's post Cold War stock with a nice discount.
Do you have any idea how fricking powerful the Bundeswehr was in 1989? >Sales
Germany doesn't care about sales. The economy is so big that they just design and produce weapons for themselves.
>Germany doesn't care about sales. The economy is so big that they just design and produce weapons for themselves.
the development of the Puma has been delayed for a year because the government wanted the the interior of the tank to be at moderate temperatures to not damage the fetus of pregnant female soldiers
frick off with this " ayo germany so stronk!"-bullshit
>Government wants it's troops to not inhale toxic fumes every day and make the interior as comfortable as possible >Somehow this is a bad thing
Next time you'll tell us how bore evacuators are effeminate?
This is objectively not true and has been reiterated by the MoD.
The recent report has shown that most problems that arose with the Puma in the field were related to improper maintenance on side of the troops.
wrong, blaming the troops when your equipment breaks because you looked at it the wrong way is asinine. >Bei der Übung sind im Großen und Ganzen Probleme aufgetaucht, die vorher bereits bekannt waren. Beispielsweise fällt offenbar eine elektronische Schlüsselkomponente für den Datenaustausch aus, wenn sie zu warm wird. Bei der Treibstoffzufuhr mache eine Sicherheitsabschaltung Probleme. Manche Teile müssten besser gewartet, mit anderen Komponenten müsse sorgsamer umgegangen werden. Sie gingen schnell kaputt, wenn die Soldaten mit ihren Gefechtshelmen oder schweren Kampfstiefeln dagegenkämen - Sicherungen etwa, heißt es. > >Ein Teil der Fehlermeldungen hätte von den Einheiten in der Übung behoben werden können, wenn sie besser am System geschult worden wären. Aber auch die Industrie sei gefordert, nachzubessern. Heeresinspekteur Alfons Mais soll vor Abgeordneten ausgeführt haben, dass bei mehreren vergleichbaren Übungen mit dem Puma im vergangenen Jahr "Klarstände" von akzeptablen 70 bis 80 Prozent erreicht worden seien, also ein Großteil der Fahrzeuge durchhielt.
Whether the improper maintenance is due to incompetence or lack of training doesn't matter. The vehicles don't care which one it is.
This is just more of the same issue that has been plaguing the entire Bundeswehr. Lack of spare parts, overusing existing equipment and exageration are just par for the course.
1 year ago
Anonymous
did you read it? if your equipment can't handle boots, that's a design issue. >Beispielsweise fällt offenbar eine elektronische Schlüsselkomponente für den Datenaustausch aus, wenn sie zu warm wird. Bei der Treibstoffzufuhr mache eine Sicherheitsabschaltung Probleme. Manche Teile müssten besser gewartet, mit anderen Komponenten müsse sorgsamer umgegangen werden. Sie gingen schnell kaputt, wenn die Soldaten mit ihren Gefechtshelmen oder schweren Kampfstiefeln dagegenkämen - Sicherungen etwa, heißt es.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That's not my equipment. I couldn't care less if it works or not.
I care more about wasting time on overblowing stupid shit like this. Why not simply state the truth of what is happening?
The same source goes on to say that more than 90% of affected vehicles are back in service after regular maintenace. So, why pretend as if these vehicles were a lost cause?
It's like the thing with the pregnant soldiers. Fiction made up in some moronic journalists head because they can't be bothered to do their due diligence.
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's absurd to accept that only 70% of the Pumas are operational during exercises in the best case >Heeresinspekteur Alfons Mais soll vor Abgeordneten ausgeführt haben, dass bei mehreren vergleichbaren Übungen mit dem Puma im vergangenen Jahr "Klarstände" von akzeptablen 70 bis 80 Prozent erreicht worden seien, also ein Großteil der Fahrzeuge durchhielt.
When did the Germans get so c**tish about lisence manufacturing? They let the Mexicans and Argentines lisence produce Marder derivatives in the past. Even like a decade back they offered Chile and Brazil local MBT manufacturing.
Those are Leopard 1, and they are hardly even considered relevant on modern battlefields. That's why it lets everyone do whatever they want. It's like the US not giving a shit on other countries doing whatever they do with the Pattons.
That's not a Leopard 1 you blathering moron, that's a TAM2. Chile operates Leopard 2s and was offered local production of the A6 to replace their A4s. Brazil was offered the Abrams and Leopard 2. Fricking dolt opening your mouth when you don't know what you're talking about.
This conversation has nothing to do with the Osorio, you're just a buffoon.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>This conversation has nothing to do with the Osorio
For me it does. Because it's the last and only meaningful attempt made by sudacas to make anything that comes close to modern MBTs.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That has nothing to do with Germans being schizophrenic gays about arms exports and you're arguing counter logically because Germany DID offer Chile and Brazil local production.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>you're arguing counter logically because Germany DID offer Chile and Brazil local production.
Germany never offered local production or tech transfer to them unless you're lying.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Germany offered Brazil the right to produce the Leopard 2 under lisence to replace their Leopard 1 fleet but Oto Merala countered with a proposal to put the Centauro turret on their Leopard 1 as a stop gap. Presently it seems that Brazil will just locally build the Centauro in Brazil for now and then produce a new MBT locally with a foreign partner. There is a theory that Japan could be the partner but Japan presently cannot export tanks.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Germany offered Brazil the right to produce the Leopard 2 under lisence
The only license they gave you is a right to produce a few non-significant parts and assemble them with German made components. It's the same shit as the Greeks do.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Germans have stated they would allow Brazilians full production. Just like how they offer that to the Brits and Australians. Italian and Swedish systems have simply been beating German options in recent tenders.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Boxer was too fat for Brazil so SuperAV and Centauro were selected. Simple as. Maybe when Brazil chooses a new tracked ifv Germans will have more luck. I suspect Lynx would be too heavy too though and CV90 would be selected.
1 year ago
Anonymous
No you dipshit. Brazilians chose the Centauro over the Boxer MGS because the German unit weight near 45 fricking tonnes. Almost as much as a proper MBT.
1 year ago
Anonymous
KMW wanted FAMAE to build their products under lisence for Latin America but that was never approved by the homosexuals in the German government. KMW also wanted to send the Leopard 2 to Ukraine from the begining but has been blocked by King gay Scholz from the start. KMW does however have a facility in Brazil these days.
>Chile operates Leopard 2s and was offered local production of the A6 to replace their A4s. Brazil was offered the Abrams and Leopard 2.
Assembly and full line transfer are two different kinds. Just because you assemble cars from imported kits, it doesn't mean that you share the technology.
For example, Egypt has been producing Abrams for decades but that didn't led to them anywhere close to making their own. Now they're currently seeking to mass produce K2 just like Poland did.
I remember when Poles wanted to put ERA bricks on their Leopards as part of their PL upgrade but Germans refused to allow Poles to put their ERAWA on them and instead offered to design a special ERA package produced in Germany.
It's almost guaranteed to win and would have already won if not for kraut lobbying.
K2 was built for mountains and the leopard has problems with the cold.
/k/ is just being moronic because they fell for the "Korea-shill" falseflagging.
There is a few shills, but it's mostly bots doing low tier dissonance.
And arma/warriortard, and the Korean tard, and the chinkposter, and noguns /misc/tards.
They can frick off too.
Let's be real here, it's widely considered the best or second-best tank in the world, leagues ahead of any asiatic or russian shitbox with the the sole possible exception of the Japanese Type 10.
The entire MIC industry ranks it this way regardless of what morons on /k want to delusion themselves because they like the shape or color of one tank versus another, in the real world it comes down to actual combat capabilities
you forget also the fact that Nammo is willing to make their own(?) K2 ammo, and Hyundai Rotem is even willing to put a factory in Norway to produce them there.
You are aware that Finnland, Canada and Norway operate the Leo 2 in Arctic conditions for decades now right?
When it comes to mountains the list grows even more.
They aren't the same tanks at all, the K2 is nearly 20t lighter than the Leo2. Poland wants to build a heavy version but no one did any trials with armor that is acceptable for an European MBT, it's fine in Korea and Japan where they would fend off mostly coastal/mountain assaults, but in western/northern Europe those things would light up like candles against a mechanized attack force.
K2 is 60 tons with more horsepower than the Leopard 2 at 70 tons, this is not even a contest, a single K2 in reality could likely take out 3+ Leopard 2s in actual combat probably more
Agreed, one Leopard 2 could easily take out 10+ of these asiatic shitboxes in actual combat, probably a whole battalion if it wasn't for limited ammo capacity.
Asiatics are 100% win rate against krauts, never in the history of mankind has a german nation defeated an asiatic nation and in fact the precise reason why the germans are in central europe today instead of their ancestral homeland in Central Asia is because they were fleeing for their lives lmfao
>worse than Japan
Only in your dreams maybe. South Korea is a bigger arms exporter than Japan.
Sorry for your butthurt, but you lost.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Sorry for your butthurt, but you lost.
I'm an American, anon. I'm an impartial observer. But from where I'm standing, Japan just seems like a better country. Just callin' it like I see it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I'm an American
Post guns.
1 year ago
Anonymous
here you go anon. you get the 1970s fed loadout.
now you must post either guns or your chopstick collection depending on your nationality.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Where are the shells?
1 year ago
Anonymous
on the shelf. post your own guns and I'll humor you. you DO own guns, right anon?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>on the shelf
So? Go get a pic of it then or I'll consider it as a mock.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>he demands others post guns >he wimps out when it's his turn and gives halfassed excuses
should I expect every Korean to be this much of a complete pussy?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>should I expect every Korean to be this much of a complete pussy
Yes.
Unless you're playing LoL or some shit in which case you'd better carry something since they will find your house and stab you.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>hurr durr korean
Why don't you stop being a troony and post actual guns with ammo unless you're a squinty eyed zipper head that is larping with airsofts.
>should I expect every Korean to be this much of a complete pussy
Yes.
Unless you're playing LoL or some shit in which case you'd better carry something since they will find your house and stab you.
Post hands.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Why don't you stop being a troony and post actual guns with ammo unless you're a squinty eyed zipper head that is larping with airsofts.
You post yours and I'll post mine, anon. I've already stepped up. (I know you don't own guns and are 100% a foreigner.)
With that said, I'd be very interested to see an airsoft ONG Wingmaster.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I-it's not airsoft just trust me dude...! >w-why don't you post f-first...!!
Well if it's so evident then why are you so hesitant to show me? Is it really that much of a hard task that I gave you? Or are you an actual nogun larping as a gun owner?
1 year ago
Anonymous
post guns
1 year ago
Anonymous
So you are a yellow monkey. Just as I expected. Next time when you larp, you'd better prepare mock ammunition for those airsoft guns.
1 year ago
Anonymous
sorry, I don't speak noguns.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>post airsoft gun >get called out for a larper >n-no...yuo....!!
Here's ~~*You*~~.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Verification not required.
1 year ago
Anonymous
not that anon, but...
you have yet to post, larper
and your desperate attempts at racism leads one to believe that you're a brownoid who lives in an insignificant shithole
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Japan just seems like a better country.
If a nation still uses fricking fax machines and floppy drives to handle its governmental/corporate services as far into fricking 2022, and would have continued to use them if the coof had not kick everybody in the balls, it deserves to be compared with the likes of Brazil for all I care.
https://restofworld.org/2022/japan-will-struggle-to-give-up-floppy-disks-and-fax-machines-for-the-digital-age/
1 year ago
Anonymous
US here that served several tours, no comparison SK > Japan
1 year ago
Anonymous
>South Korea is a bigger arms exporter than Japan.
Because Japan makes shit for themselves and themselves alone so they don't bother exporting, not helped by how the longest time their laws prevented the export of weapons.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Because Japan makes shit for themselves
You're saying as if it only applies to them. >they don't bother exporting
Where have you been? They've been trying to sell them for the last decade, yet they failed.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yes correct Japan does make shit, their weapons are comical bad by modern standards, probably worse than China and certainly worse than Russia, simply not competitive in the international MIC marketplace
1 year ago
Anonymous
I get that you're doing that shit where you shit on japan to ludicrous levels to bait low iq morons into shitting on Korea.
But if we're talking about cost efficiency, you're unironically correct. jap shit is some of the most expensive weapons on the planet, especially for how middle-of-the-pack they are in performance.
The biggest global rearmament and the japs announced that they're exporting weapons now. And literally nobody is interested.
Korea has never contributed to any of those wins though, on the contrary it was always dominated and enslaved by those asiatic powers, with the latest case in point being Imperial Japan.
Korea has never lost a war involving actual combat in its entire history other than the Mongols where it ended up a truce whereby Korean princes were forced to marry Mongol princesses as Mongols wanted to improve their genetic lines, dead fricking serious
The craziest part of this is that Korea was always outnumbered a gazillion to one, the fact that they are still a distinct ethnicity today and the only race with 100% Allele A (all other places have Allele G which originated in subsaharan Africa) genetically proves out their combat or at least ethnic survivalable superiority
1 year ago
Anonymous
From a dna perspective its almost unexplainable how the only 100% Allele A genetics are found in the Korean Peninsula, every other part of the world has admixtures of Allele G...
1 year ago
Anonymous
>actual combat
Yes most of the time luckily Japan did protect it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
From a dna perspective its almost unexplainable how the only 100% Allele A genetics are found in the Korean Peninsula, every other part of the world has admixtures of Allele G...
Blatant bullshit and kimchi cope.
More like Korea has never won (or stopped getting steamrolled to be more accurate) a war without outside factors such as intervention by its master countries, and in many cases Koreans didn't even matter in wars fought in Korea. Also, just because Korea surrendered with lightning speed and sucked aggressor's dick as hard as possible before it developed into a real war, doesn't mean Korea won the war, that's why the history of Korea is all about being subordinate to dominant powers.
1 year ago
Anonymous
1 year ago
Anonymous
Irrelevant, not to mention samples were only taken in one city in Korea.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>one of the major cities in Korea >decent sample size >literally 100% lmao >too moronic to pass statistics class
galactic levels of cope
1 year ago
Anonymous
Koguryo-Sui War, 300,000 Koreans versus 3+ million Chinese, almost no casualties almost every Chinese killed and lead to the downfall of the Sui Dynasty
Imjin Wars, Korea outnumbered anywhere between 3:1 to 5:1 and still ended up destroying the Japanese in actual combat, Admiral Yi with 13 ships literally sank the entire Japanese navy of over 300 ships without losing a single ship
This does not even include the Korean colonization of the Japanese islands over 2500 years ago, Japan was inhabited by indigenous Jomon people that were near genocided by the Korean colonist Yayoi people, even today the Japanese dna is something like 90%+ y dna from Korean dna
Lmfao
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Koguryo-Sui War
If anything, Koguryo is part of Manchurian history, and the numbers are extremely exaggerated.
>Imjin Wars
Korea was conquered by a Japanese daimyo within a month, lost one million people, and got its ass saved by Ming China and the daimyo's death. That's one of the finest examples of how Korea never stopped getting utterly btfo without outside factors. In fact Korea wasn't even allowed to participate in the peace negotiations between Japan and Ming, pretty much the same as the Sino-Japanese War (Japan vs Qing China over Korea) and the Korean War (Commies vs US over Korea). Korea has always been a playground for great powers.
>Korean colonization of the Japanese islands
Typical Korean cope fantasy and wewuzzing, manifestation of interiority complex towards Japan. The Japonic peoples came from the continent in the first place.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Koguryo = genetically Korean, Manchurians are genetically close to Korean and both are distinct from han chinks
Koguryo = Korean names, Koreanic language, Korean is closer to Turkish than to han chink language
Imjin Wars = Korea was completely disarmed due to the royalty only allowing the royal guards to have weapons and Japan outnumbered Korea 5:1, so yeah Japan won the initial battles but Korea completely mogged in the war and ended up genociding all of the nips other than the few that could flee for their lives, again Korea population was something like 3 million compared to 30 million in Japan and still complete moggery by Korea, Koreans are just better at everything, simple as
1 year ago
Anonymous
Imjin War was a decisive Korean victory, even Japanese history books reflects this as a massive embarrassment due to the overwhelming numbers Japan had in the invasion
The back story from the Japanese perspective is that the Japanese considered Koreans kinfolks, effectively the same and tried to convince Korea to united with Japan to invade Ming China, Korea ended up literally beating both Japan and Ming China, pretty impressive for a nation that was outnumbered massively by both Japan and China, Koreans must be really tough people
1 year ago
Anonymous
Imjin War was a decisive Korean victory, even Japanese history books reflects this as a massive embarrassment due to the overwhelming numbers Japan had in the invasion
The back story from the Japanese perspective is that the Japanese considered Koreans kinfolks, effectively the same and tried to convince Korea to united with Japan to invade Ming China, Korea ended up literally beating both Japan and Ming China, pretty impressive for a nation that was outnumbered massively by both Japan and China, Koreans must be really tough people
asiatic cope fantasy at its finest.
Korea was curbstomped in the Imjin War. When the Ming Army arrived, Korea was practically over. Two capitals were occupied, the king had already fled, his princes had been captured, useless Korean armies getting massacred everywhere, and it's the Ming that managed to recapture Pyongyang and set up peace negotiation, even though they also got crushed at Pyokjeyek. The war is no different than the Korean War - Korea gets steamrolled and its master of the time saves it ass, and actually partition of the peninsular was on the table during the Japan-Ming negotiations too. Also Japanese casualties were pretty small, evident from the number of killed generals/commanders (almost zero) as opposed to Korea piling up bodies of high-ranked officers including Yi sun shin. Korea is such a joke.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Korea decisively won the Imjin War and genocided the nips and chinks, this after taking years to properly arm up against the souless bugs from both untermensh nations and being outnumbered 5:1 against nips and 50:1 against chinks, Koreans still won
If history has taught us anything its that 1 Korean soldier can easily beat 5 nips and 50 chinks, simple as
1 year ago
Anonymous
Other than against china have the nips ever won a war? They seem to start strong but always ends up getting brutally mogged, ww2 nips were beating the us until the us was able to react and ended up decisively crushing the nips and even dropped a few nukes for good measure even though the nips were going to surrender anyways
In reality nips rely on treachery to establish some gains but always get demolished
1 year ago
Anonymous
Delusion everywhere. This is also just about a test between two tanks too.
1 year ago
Anonymous
No it didn't, all the records and material evidence point to the exact same fact that Korea was UTTERLY stomped and that Japan's internal rivalry sparked by Hideyoshi's death put an end to the invasion.
The official dynastic record of Ming China itself admits it, saying "The invasion lasted nearly seven years and casualties exceeded many hundred thousand. China and the vassal (Korea) fought hand in hand but they had no chance of victory. Only the death of Hideyoshi brought the calamities of warfare to an end" - couldn't be more accurate, no room for asiatic cope fantasy. Samurai mowed down Korean troops to the level of building a mound out of ears of killed Koreans, the Mimizuka. >The monument enshrines the severed noses of at least 38,000 Koreans and over 30,000 Chinese killed during Toyotomi Hideyoshi's invasions.[6][7][8][9] One hundred and sixty-thousand Japanese troops had gone to Korea where they had taken 185,738 Korean heads and 29,014 Chinese ones, a grand total of 214,752.[4]:p. 230[16] As some might have been discarded, it is impossible to enumerate how many were killed in total during the war.[9]
Korean military incompetence is legendary, even worse than the Chinese, arguably the shittiest of Asia. A 17,000+ strong Korean army trying to invade Japan's Tsushima island in the 15th century for example got hilariously BTFO by the only 600 (six hundred) strong garrison, and begged for negotiation, and that's the sole case in history where Korea even tried an invasion of Japan (not even the mainland though). Korea isn't the eternal vassal state of Asia for no reason, and the massive inferiority complex towards Chadpan is totally warranted actually.
1 year ago
Anonymous
How did the Koreans manage to lose so many soldiers? The Chinese suffered only around 40k compared to nearly 200k Koreans which is a 5:1 ratio and definitely more than the Japanese since they didn't even send that many men. How badly can a country lose a war other than getting genocided because this is up there
1 year ago
Anonymous
Sorry only under 30k Chinese but this is even worse. How can the Korean shills in this thread live knowing this?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Sorry only under 30k Chinese but this is even worse. How can the Korean shills in this thread live knowing this?
The Ming reinforcements were smaller than the Korean Army, but yeah Korean incompetence is at another level that warrants the desperate shilling.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Admiral Yi with 13 ships literally sank the entire Japanese navy of over 300 ships without losing a single ship
Conveniently forgetting that Admiral Won Gyun completely fricked up Joseon's own naval fighting power in one battle where he had equal if not higher chance of winning against the Japs I see.
Frick "Korea strong" bullshit. Every nation had their admiral Yi for everg dozen Won Gyuns. Like Japs that had the 4 frick ups in WW2 in command and whoever war general the Japs unambiguously like, I don't give enough of a shit to know.
1 year ago
Anonymous
what happened here, then? because from my reading of the Japan-Korea Treaty of 1876, it sounds like Japan pressured Korea into becoming a protectorate by scaring them with a handful of modern gunboats. that's a little pathetic, isn't it?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>1876 >1941 >weeb trying too hard
1 year ago
Anonymous
The treaty lasted from 1876 until America defeated Japan and liberated its empire.
That whole time, the Japanese enjoyed full control of Korea and extraterritoriality within its borders. That's 71 years of rule, isn't it? Seems like a long time to be ruled by another country without even putting up a fight.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Keep in mind that many in korea wanted to modernize with japan, it was the royalty that did not, also at the time korea had maybe 10 million people compared to over 70 million in japan, effectively like how ireland was massively outnumbered by the english
1 year ago
Anonymous
There was no war or combat involved, many in korea (especially the elite businessmen that hated the royalty) wanted to join japan, there were many in japan that were actually ethnic koreans too and together they wanted to united korea with japan to create a world power, japan annexed korea and what goes largely uncovered is that a substantial part of the japanese military to include leadership were ethnic koreans
However, even though they shared ancient kinship the dividing line in the sand was that korea embraced Christianity whereas japan was staunchly against it, hence the effective root of the division and animosity between these countries
>the precise reason why the germans are in central europe today instead of their ancestral homeland in Central Asia is because they were fleeing for their lives lmfao
Indo-Iranians formed in Central Asia. Proto-Indo-Europeans originated around the Pontic-Caspian Steppe further west.
Its not a even a real contest and why every country wants the K2, Leopard 2s are literally leftover tanks for countries like Ukraine that can't get access to K2s or M1s
They aren't the same tanks at all, the K2 is nearly 20t lighter than the Leo2. Poland wants to build a heavy version but no one did any trials with armor that is acceptable for an European MBT, it's fine in Korea and Japan where they would fend off mostly coastal/mountain assaults, but in western/northern Europe those things would light up like candles against a mechanized attack force.
no, the "side armor" meme is just cope.
any tank in the world would get damaged just as much if hit by anything that will damage the K2. Just look at how leopard 2s fared in turkey.
The abrams is the only one who might survive but only the latest ones. And only the american latest one. Export version would not have the cutting edge composite armor.
Not to mention that the K2 is still a growing tank. Because it is so new, there is still a ton more weight that can be put on it. Polish/Norwegian K2s will have improved side armor that the Koreans didn't need for their terrain.
>2A4
I don't think that's as well protected as a A5 onwards though >Abrams might survive
I think if the Abrams could tank it so could a 2A7 and a CR2 >K2 weight
Could this possibly cause huge issues like what happened to the Ajax?
>2A7 $15m >K2 $8.5m
It was never going to be as good, look how much cheaper it is.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>look how much cheaper it is.
That's just german bureaucracy on display.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Gripen costs more than an F35 moron
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yes vecause the F35 is more popular.
The Leopard is the F35 in this scenario except it costs alot more despite everyone using it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Idiot, tthe leopard is a mig23, the k2 is an f22 that is as exportable as an f16, hence why the k2 is the most sought after mbt and the leopard is increasingly having countries run away from it like the plague
1 year ago
Anonymous
You completely miss the point you imbecile
1 year ago
Anonymous
moron the K2 is more popular than the Leopard 2 and its not even close, there is not a single credible military in the world that prefers the Leopard 2 over the K2
1 year ago
Anonymous
Third world nations like Poland and Turkey want the K2.
1 year ago
Anonymous
As well as first world nations like Norway, meanwhile the only countries that are still buying the Leopard 2 are Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania lol
1 year ago
Anonymous
How did you determine the unit cost?
1 year ago
Anonymous
K2 has more advanced components but Korea has substantially greater industrial production capabilities than Germany by several factors, this is the sole reason why the K2 (which is still more expensive than any other tank to include the M1) has a lower cost than the Leopard 2A7
If both were scaled to produce the same number of units of say 10 per year the K2 would cost several times more than the Leopard 2
As a data point the K2 also costs 3x+ more than a Challenger 2 or a Leclerc, even with the far greater industrial production scale
1 year ago
Anonymous
In 2001 Challenger2 cost £4.8million which today would be £8.3 million.
Literally all of them since the sub-standard powerpack wasn't accepted into service. If you weren't a such moronic kraut, you could've probably figured this out on your own by doing some basic googling.
The northernmost part of the country, the one that borders with Russia, has large flat areas. The southernmost has large flat areas too. We have been invaded before, there's no point in pretending we can't be invaded again.
Maybe parts of Finnmark during the vinter, but it gets really wet there during the summer. If the Russians reach Jæren with tanks, it would already be over. My father was a tank commander, and he explained to me why we have almost no tanks here.
Jæren. You must be joking. That's so far southwest the Russians might as well try for Scotland. The key to take Norway wholesale is to capture Oslo. That's a fourth of the entire population and most of the administration.
Capture oslo so you can take a bunch of office workers out of play? Lol dude no, the only possibility is to take towns across the coast and fjords, that is where the industry is.
Also good luck holding oslo, nothing of strategic advantage there so it is going to be a cluster frick holding that urban area
1 year ago
Anonymous
Would there be a war in Ukraine now if the russians had managed to capture Kyiv? Would there be a Ukraine?
Frick yeah I hope you are right. Regardless of the tests the Leo comes with FAR too many strings attached. When the Koreans sell something they dont demand control of it afterwards.
Norway doesn't want a K2 factory. Our local needs are small ,we aren't into large scale weapons export, and a factory would be too easy a target in a war. Production of key spare parts, even co-production of software and electronics would be different - we already do that.
I didn't say they force you to do any of that, just that they'll give it to you if you want. The option for tech transfers and local production are a big fricking deal when you're talking about arms sales.
Kongsberg has no experience or capability with making heavy vehicles or armour plate work of that scale.
RITEK or Aker could do it, but it would probably be as part of some kind of industry consortium with KDA.
Production at Aker was one of the initial ideas from HRC
Norway doesn't want a K2 factory. Our local needs are small ,we aren't into large scale weapons export, and a factory would be too easy a target in a war. Production of key spare parts, even co-production of software and electronics would be different - we already do that.
A K2 factory only for Norway would be wasted, but if Sweden and Finland in the future suddenly decided they'd be interested in K2s, then maybe a factory jointly run by our national weapon companies would probably be set up either in Sweden or Norway.
I must say the K2 really is shaping up to be the best tank of the current gen, in terms of armor, armament, manoeuvrability, and systems, it looks like a total game changer, and likely to shake up the global AFV sector. The current roster of customers and potential buyers is increasing almost daily, and Korean industry and engineering are starting to show their true excellence in the face of inadequate European (specifically German) designs and political limitations, I dare say that we are looking at 30+ years of Korean dominance in the military export market. If such a quantum leap can be achieved in tank capability and manufacturing, what can we imagine will be the next step for other systems such as military aerospace, small arms development, and ordnance.
In the late 1990s, Turkey wanted to buy and license produce Panzerhaubitze 2000 howitzers but German arms embargoes prevented it. In May 1998, South Korea's MoD approached Turkey to buy its K9 Thunder howitzers even before the ROK military bought it in December 1999. The MoU was signed in May 2000.
Turkey began producing the T-155 Firtina howitzer under license and single-handedly made the K9 a battle-proven weapon over the next 2 decades. In the mid 2010s, South Korea began getting orders from other countries and they kept piling up.
In 2007 as part of Turkey's MBT program/tender, South Korea showcased its under-development MBT which became the K2. In 2008 the deal was signed with the ROK for technical assistance on the Altay MBT.
The K2 itself entered ROK service in 2014. The Altay began serial production in 2023. Two Altays will deliver in May 2023. By this point Poland was ordering a large number of K2 tanks to also get away from German or French weapons.
Germany began 'informal embargoes' on small arms sales to Turkey in the early 2010s by way of delays and hurdles. This, combined with US Congress blocking UCAV sales to Turkey in 2012, directly promoted Turkey to pursue domestic production across all segments. By the late 2010s, Turkey is one of the largest small arms exporters and the largest UCAV exporter in the world.
Germany also tried to sabotage the Altay MBT program, first by getting involved with it, then resorting to usual delaying tactics and ultimately pulling out when Germany slapped formal arms embargoes on Turkey in 2019.
This frickery also prompted South Korea to develop their own domestic engines and transmissions to replace the German ones from the K2. The ROK also signed a deal with Turkey to supply engines and transmission for the initial 100 units of the Altay MBT called the Altay T1. Meanwhile, BMC Power has developed domestic Turkish engines and transmissions for the Altay T2 which begins production in 2024 and delivery in 2025.
> In [May 1998], South Korea's MoD approached Turkey to buy its K9 Thunder howitzers even before the ROK military bought it in December 1999. The MoU was signed in May 2000.
Meant to say May 1999.
*Spellcheck.
>Interesting post. Turkey makes for an interesting innovator in this macroeconomic sense. Weird shit how things find their way to success
Turkey made $4.4B in defense exports in 2022, up from $3.2B in 2021.
Germany made $8.8B in 2022, down from $9.2B in 2021.
The Turkish government expects $6B in defense exports in 2023.
Germany's influence and arms sales have peaked, and both are going downhill. They shot their foot by fricking with Turkey over the decades. They also had a de-facto arms embargo on Ukraine since 2014 up until weeks into the 2022 Russian invasion. By the 2030s Turkey will very likely match and eventually exceed German arms sales.
What Germany does isnt dumbass. It is an attempt at power influence. In the past shit like this has worked. Now it doesnt because now military equipment has a purpose again, it's not just to show how good you are at using taxpayer money. Germany tries to get leverage and are shocked that the marked won't play with their marbles any more.
>What Germany does isnt dumbass. It is an attempt at power influence. In the past shit like this has worked. Now it doesnt
Care to elaborate who it influenced though?
> Turkey became a dictatorship. > Germany not supporting that was the right call
Germany's embargoes against Turkey have been going on for decades straight, numbnuts. See:
In the late 1990s, Turkey wanted to buy and license produce Panzerhaubitze 2000 howitzers but German arms embargoes prevented it. In May 1998, South Korea's MoD approached Turkey to buy its K9 Thunder howitzers even before the ROK military bought it in December 1999. The MoU was signed in May 2000.
Turkey began producing the T-155 Firtina howitzer under license and single-handedly made the K9 a battle-proven weapon over the next 2 decades. In the mid 2010s, South Korea began getting orders from other countries and they kept piling up.
In 2007 as part of Turkey's MBT program/tender, South Korea showcased its under-development MBT which became the K2. In 2008 the deal was signed with the ROK for technical assistance on the Altay MBT.
The K2 itself entered ROK service in 2014. The Altay began serial production in 2023. Two Altays will deliver in May 2023. By this point Poland was ordering a large number of K2 tanks to also get away from German or French weapons.
Germany began 'informal embargoes' on small arms sales to Turkey in the early 2010s by way of delays and hurdles. This, combined with US Congress blocking UCAV sales to Turkey in 2012, directly promoted Turkey to pursue domestic production across all segments. By the late 2010s, Turkey is one of the largest small arms exporters and the largest UCAV exporter in the world.
Germany also tried to sabotage the Altay MBT program, first by getting involved with it, then resorting to usual delaying tactics and ultimately pulling out when Germany slapped formal arms embargoes on Turkey in 2019.
This frickery also prompted South Korea to develop their own domestic engines and transmissions to replace the German ones from the K2. The ROK also signed a deal with Turkey to supply engines and transmission for the initial 100 units of the Altay MBT called the Altay T1. Meanwhile, BMC Power has developed domestic Turkish engines and transmissions for the Altay T2 which begins production in 2024 and delivery in 2025.
South Korea's own rise as an arms export power is directly related to Germany's anti-Turkey embargoes.
Formal embargoes in the 1990s, informal embargoes in the early 2010s onward, and formal embargoes since 2019 onward.
> Turkey became a dictatorship. > Germany not supporting that was the right call
Germany's embargoes against Turkey have been going on for decades straight, numbnuts. See: [...]
South Korea's own rise as an arms export power is directly related to Germany's anti-Turkey embargoes.
Formal embargoes in the 1990s, informal embargoes in the early 2010s onward, and formal embargoes since 2019 onward.
why did Germany embargo Turkey in the 90's? Was it because of Cyprus?
The timing seems a bit poor. Leo2 got at least a decade more of service life left, which means K2 will be quite old by the time the next generation of western tanks are about to hit the production line.
Couldn't miss the point more if you tried. There a maybe 3 conceptual or prototyped design for European tanks beyond what exist now. The only one that has any commitment to buy is the Challenger 3, and only in small numbers. The Leopard upgrade that was shown off is fricked because the Germans won't find it and they're lighting their potential customer base on fire. The other is a transnational concept only.
And there are in fact, a lot of countries in Europe looking at replacing their older tanks.
I love the K2 because it makes krauts seethe hard as they realize they are losing their NATO tank export monopoly and that the 2A7 is an outdated and overpriced piece of shit. Plus, with all their recent homosexualry with export restrictions, nobody will buy want to buy the Leopard 3 and as a result it's already DOA.
Too many chinks, weebs, and brownoids poisoning the well again. Literally a year straight of these Black folk desperately trying to shut down all discussion about Korea.
I don't even think it's krauts at this point. They know better than anyone how fricked the bundeswher and their MIC is.
Biggest global rearming since the cold war and Korea has signed some of the biggest deals. Fricking cope.
It's very very old news. Norway is choosing a new tank, Korean K2 and Leopard 2 are the finalists of the trials, and that's about all that's been happening since october or so. If the Leo is chosen it means very little since Norway has already had the Leo platform for decades. If the K2 is chosen it will be kinda spectacular because the entire Scandinavia could end up with both a tank and arty system from South Korea. The technological differences at this point are small and Norway will likely never order more than 150-200 tanks total which is fiddlesticks. Why this is a theme now is because Germany's fuhrer Scholz refuses to let countries who have legitimely BOUGHT German tanks, give a few of them to Ukraine. What with him being a huge Putin fan, it's no surprise, but who wants to spend billions on something the previous owner wants control of?
as in drag out the decision after trials.
last time I heard something like this happening was from aussies and they just fricking quit for some reason.
trials were back in february 2022. final offers and contract negotiations were done in november 2022, now its just a matter of waiting for the DoD to get the thumb out of their asses and sign a contract with KMW or HRC
The decision to blow a number of billion dollars on what will be a primary defence system for the next 2-3 decades is probably taking some time. I expect the tests to be long done by now. Negotiations have very likely become tangled in the effects of the Ukraine war; can the Germans even deliver any time soon under current conditions? Can the SK deliver now that they are hip deep in other orders? When they do decide I expect we will hear of it exceedingly fast.
The reason its the best is because it's cheap and available (both for purchase and tech transfer) and doesn't come with dumbass stipulations about what the purchaser can do with their tanks.
What Germany does isnt dumbass. It is an attempt at power influence. In the past shit like this has worked. Now it doesnt because now military equipment has a purpose again, it's not just to show how good you are at using taxpayer money. Germany tries to get leverage and are shocked that the marked won't play with their marbles any more.
>Not like this kraut sisters.....
Literally who is going to buy German equipment now with this export license shitshow
The Korean technology transfer model will make Korea, Poland, and any other country that signs on much more independent and allow them to have domestically produced high quality tank forces.
The Germans would just ban the export of their MTU engine and the L-44/L-55 guns to Korea if that happens, and see how the hooks can assemble their K2s
and embarrass themselves further by doing what would appear as a temper tantrum?
this is exactly why they developed their domestic versions as well iirc
Korea is undefeated in wars against chinks and nips, chinks and nips are midgets that only rely on numbers, Koreans are physically much stronger with much higher iq, this is why Korea is still an independent country unlike japan which has lost every war it engaged in and china which is widely documented as the most genocided race in history
Koreans are pretty based solely for not being like the japs and chinks who like to make themselves look huwite in their animation and comics, instead protraying themselves as what they look like
Pretty amazing how japan was always 3x+ and china 30x+ the population and still Korea mogged
https://i.imgur.com/vwqnesb.jpg
Koreans are pretty based solely for not being like the japs and chinks who like to make themselves look huwite in their animation and comics, instead protraying themselves as what they look like
Hate to break it to you, Kim, but the sole reason Korea is around today is the Japanese blunder in WW2 and the US intervention, a geopolitical fluke that has nothing to do with competence of Koreans. Korea is just an ex-Japanese colony that happened to gain independence, though becoming a lesser Japan was a great improvement and unironically the best thing ever happened to Korea, compared to a lesser China it used to be for many centuries. Korea has been raped by Japanese military so much that the Rising Sun flag, symbol of Japanese military power, literally causes PTSD in Koreans, and how can you expect us to take you seriously? lmfao
Lmfao nips and chinks were genocided by koreans since the beginning of history, regardless of how many gorillion soulless bugs nips and chinks have since neither relies on skill or intelligence just zergrush and why nips and chinks always take crazy amount of casualties and always lose lmfao
This pic from rimpac 2022 sums it all up, anybody that was there knows that the south korean soldiers were all chads, bigger than us and european soldiers and far more fit, meanwhile the nips were smaller than the sudaca and pajeet soldiers lmfao
>tank thread >suspicions amounts of experts of the ochinchin war of 1473 with decisive bugman victory
totally organic thread by the way, also please call your MP and recommend them to buy LG
bot
I'm sure OP is, but this is the first thread I've seen it create. Were the others shit too?
I don't think Germany appreciates how thoroughly the K2 is going to take marketshare from the Leopard 2 in coming years because the Germans put too many restrictions on the Leos and won't allow enough to be license built by other countries. The Koreans are happy to do tech transfers and set up local manufacturing.
K2 is at least a decade newer ?
there is a group in south Korea who keeps trying to obstruct the MIC but they are a small group
Germany does not produce Leopard2 any more, and despite the ukraine war it doesn't intend to either. Building up a new production line would be too expensive for export partners, when korea has their k2 up and running because they actually need large numbers of it. The rest of europe doesn't likely want large numbers of tanks anyway, except poland (who will not buy german for political reasons).
>Germany does not produce Leopard2 any more, and despite the ukraine war it doesn't intend to either
There are still about a thousand A4s awaiting upgrades, it doesn't make sense to produce new tanks when upgrading unused old ones is cheaper. America does the same.
But you're still wrong because there's still at least one factory in Greece producing brand new hulls.
Do you know anything at all about this topic?
>There are still about a thousand A4s awaiting upgrades
Most of which Germany is not in posession of.
Yes they do? The fabrication of new hulls is done by a company in Greece, but the turret is built and assembled at Kassel, and the hulls are assembled and mated with the turret in Munich
>hull produced in Greece
>turret produced in Kassel
>put together in Munich
Now I'm starting to get how it's going...
>(who will not buy german for political reasons).
?? Most of the stuff they import is from Germany
Poland had multiple year long issue with modernizing german tanks. Issue started under very pro-german government so I'm not sure if it can be called political though.
Leo2A4 has serious issues with the hull. To the point Poland gave up on upgrading the hull and only changed the turret for Leo2PL.
There are many good things about Leopards, like the gun or engine, but they have some serious problems too.
Not entirely true. There were 2 offers for Leo2PL, one by Rheinmetall and one by KMW. Second one was more expensive because KMW recognized that if you slap multiple tons of armor and equipment onto a suspension that was designed for much lighter earlier versions, shit is going to break. That shit is torsion bar mounting points which are the bane of every Leo2 upgrade program.
Rheinmetall offer was cheaper since they were like nah you dont need that expensive hull upgrade, it's gonna be fine. It was not fine. Microcracks in hulls of the prototypes appeared, and hulls had to be redone after all anyway.
Poland actually wanted to buy K2s ever since they were first envisioned by Korea in early 2000s, with Leopard 2A4s serving as a stopgap.
They were supposed to be one of first foreign buyers in around 2014, with the K2PL "Wilk", but Germans blocked the export to Poland on the grounds of K2 using German RENK-made transmissions.
Koreans only figured out domestic transmission in 2020 so the purchase was probably inevitable even without the war in Ukraine.
The funny part is that Poland just ordered over 200 Renk transmissions for their K2's. So Germans suddenly no longer see the problem in exporting them.
>except poland (who will not buy german for political reasons).
Not true, they won't buy German ANYMORE because of shit support. The tanks wouldn't be broken down all the time if the Germans would sell spare parts and training, or even MAKE them.
>because the Germans put too many restrictions on the Leos and won't allow enough to be license built by other countries
Not only were the restrictions the norm in arms deals, Leo production and procurement also has the least and Leos and their parts are the most license built tanks of any western tank worldwide.
More than the K2 as well.
Why is every anti-German poster always either lying or just repeating dumb bullshit unquestioningly about this shit?
you're a moron.
Koreans have been so good about tech transfer than not only is Turkey making their own copies of the K2/K9, they're exporting them as well.
The funny thing is that krauts like you still think they have anything to be proud of even after an entire year of the german government being putin's b***h at every turn.
Which is the exception not a rule and will stop immediately once they get a foothold in Europe.
Wrong.
I corrected somebody being objectively wrong and you had to sperg out about it lmao
Stop being so insecure.
Pretty irrelevant since they still come to Germany for upgrades.
Unless you think Germany should have 1000 of the newest Leo2s standing around for no reason.
Everything you initially claimed was factually wrong and can be proven as such with less than 5 minutes of Googling. Burn yourself alive you reality-detached subhuman.
Everything you called a lie there is completely factual you illiterate fricking Black person.
And the K2 is a way newer tank than the Leopard 2 and has only recently been licensed or sold to other countries. That's why fewer have been built abroad you syphilitic c**t.
Yeah, people are tiring of German bullshit. I think a big reason CV90s and Patrias have become so popular (other than being generally great vehicles) is that the companies and countries involved are so easy to deal with compared with competitors.
I doubt it matters energy and personal (qualified) shortage will make production Germany almost impossible for anything else than the BW itself, if that.
Ther is no energy shortage and getting or training people to work on an assembly line isn't hard. If a bunch of Greeks can do it, so can anyone else.
>there is no energy shortage
Well it is there and hence production is dropping inalmost every industry.
>assembly line work
No it’s not. The assembly line work you are thinking of does barley amount to 10 percent of all labor hours.
Well no, it actualyl isn't there outside vatBlack person propaganda delusions. Buit keep being moronic and claiming otherwise while german industry is still reporting growth.
The one who isn’t the sharpest knife in drawer. 20 percent less energy consumption equals almost 20 percent less production, because German industry was already optimized for high energy costs. 15 percent true inflation means minus 2 percent GDP „growth“ means people have lost 13 percent of the purchasing power.
I think Russia also has economic troubles ahead. But what would you know or even understand.
>people have lost 13 percent of the purchasing power
How terrible
European gas storage is at record highs for this time of year and there is record wind generation happening, along with the French nuclear fleet coming back online from maintenance and things.like record heat pump installation.
Stab yourself in the fricking throat. It's the only way you'll escape being hunted down and brained with a claw hammer.
>record gas storage
Your issue is you don’t understand that getting the gas in the storage was extremely expensive meaning unless we build new coal power plants and get old coal power plants back online Germany won’t be able to build any significant amount of new industry.
Just build nuclear you morons
I have some knowledge and I can tell you nuclear was never that great. kW/h are much more expensive, if they are generated by nuclear power plants once you factor in subventions for building and development and especially unknown future cost (dismantling and future storage). In fact building nuclear power plants was mostly possible due to having cheap coal based energy. Nuclear stations create cheap electric energy, but most chemical plants need thermal energy. Which adds conversion cost/energy loses. Currently France is importing German energy because of trouble with their power plants. They even have flown in specialized welding crews from the US. On top of it building modern 3 plus or 4th generation nuclear power plants in accordance with current standards and knowledge it would mean that electricity produced by nuclear power plants is going to be much more expensive. That is why most of the reactors are almost 40 years old. Conservatives are fooled by climate extremists into supporting nuclear by their CO2 nonsense. It’s because they know that nuclear is not even an option.
We need better filters, more efficient burners and better mining techniques with regards to coal as energy resource. But it’s already the best we have.
>Nuclear stations create cheap electric energy, but most chemical plants need thermal energy
I meant cheap on paper, if you don’t factor in the true cost.
>g*rman moronation
Take a good look bros, this shit rivals vatniks and their banan-flavored copium.
The plants already exist anon. They are perfectly servicable and in fine shape. They only dont fit scary nooks agenda and large amounts of graft somoene took to replace them with gas plants.
Research it. Germany has little use for nuclear power plants mining uranium is not really an option although it has been done in Germany. Coal is existential for German independence. That’s what’s cheap and that’s what we have. Than we can also import some gas and we aren’t susceptible to cartels or oligopolies.
The right has been conditioned to give up coal, but in reality for those without gas it’s the best option.
Wild how your own lcoe prices completely disprove this claim. Die mad, miner b***h.
It’s so simple they tricked GOP normie goobers into buying the CO2 anthropogenic climate change hoax. Now they advocate the unreasonable nuclear power plants instead of the reasonable coal power plants. The true cost of nuclear energy are much higher than the officially published ones, while it’s the exact same opposite with the coal based energy costs. They are much lower, if you subtract their stupid taxes and other kinds of shenanigans.
>It's a tually much cheaper if you use magic calculations that don't exist in the real world
Cope and seeth you insufferable little b***h.
>muh green nuclear
I certainly won’t stop you from being fooled by libtards.
Read on OL3 in Finnland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olkiluoto_Nuclear_Power_Plant
Unit 3 in Flamanville France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plant
Or Vogtle 3 and 4 in the Us
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Plant
Hinkley Point C in Britain
People going insane
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/13/revealed-suicide-alarm-hinkley-point-c-construction-site
well that’s understandable you might interject it’s Britain after all
Yes, but they can’t even drive a bus there
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/17/bus-crash-somerset-hinkley-point-workers-injured/
Nuclear power plants in the west are almost all 35 plus years old most of them 40 plus.
It’s just silly delusions to think it’s going to
the next big thing. But that’s exactly were all the climate extremist want to have you.
So with WEF sponsored CO2 certificates and nuclear nonsense mass production is just not going to happen sorry boys.
Peru tested the K2 and Leopard 2 and were surprised that the Korean engines actually performed better especially after the issues Korea had in developing them. I think so far all they've left to perfect is the transmissions.
>I think so far all they've left to perfect is the transmissions.
It's done. They've successfully reverse engineered the ECU of its German counterpart that the localization rate hits over 90% now. It's currently exported to Turkey for use in its Altay MBT.
JUST TURN YOUR NUKE POWER PLANTS BACK ON YOU moronS
The Leo 2 is only so widespread because Germany wanted to get rid of it's post Cold War stock with a nice discount.
Do you have any idea how fricking powerful the Bundeswehr was in 1989?
>Sales
Germany doesn't care about sales. The economy is so big that they just design and produce weapons for themselves.
>Germany doesn't care about sales. The economy is so big that they just design and produce weapons for themselves.
the development of the Puma has been delayed for a year because the government wanted the the interior of the tank to be at moderate temperatures to not damage the fetus of pregnant female soldiers
frick off with this " ayo germany so stronk!"-bullshit
>Government wants it's troops to not inhale toxic fumes every day and make the interior as comfortable as possible
>Somehow this is a bad thing
Next time you'll tell us how bore evacuators are effeminate?
This is objectively not true and has been reiterated by the MoD.
The recent report has shown that most problems that arose with the Puma in the field were related to improper maintenance on side of the troops.
wrong, blaming the troops when your equipment breaks because you looked at it the wrong way is asinine.
>Bei der Übung sind im Großen und Ganzen Probleme aufgetaucht, die vorher bereits bekannt waren. Beispielsweise fällt offenbar eine elektronische Schlüsselkomponente für den Datenaustausch aus, wenn sie zu warm wird. Bei der Treibstoffzufuhr mache eine Sicherheitsabschaltung Probleme. Manche Teile müssten besser gewartet, mit anderen Komponenten müsse sorgsamer umgegangen werden. Sie gingen schnell kaputt, wenn die Soldaten mit ihren Gefechtshelmen oder schweren Kampfstiefeln dagegenkämen - Sicherungen etwa, heißt es.
>
>Ein Teil der Fehlermeldungen hätte von den Einheiten in der Übung behoben werden können, wenn sie besser am System geschult worden wären. Aber auch die Industrie sei gefordert, nachzubessern. Heeresinspekteur Alfons Mais soll vor Abgeordneten ausgeführt haben, dass bei mehreren vergleichbaren Übungen mit dem Puma im vergangenen Jahr "Klarstände" von akzeptablen 70 bis 80 Prozent erreicht worden seien, also ein Großteil der Fahrzeuge durchhielt.
Whether the improper maintenance is due to incompetence or lack of training doesn't matter. The vehicles don't care which one it is.
This is just more of the same issue that has been plaguing the entire Bundeswehr. Lack of spare parts, overusing existing equipment and exageration are just par for the course.
did you read it? if your equipment can't handle boots, that's a design issue.
>Beispielsweise fällt offenbar eine elektronische Schlüsselkomponente für den Datenaustausch aus, wenn sie zu warm wird. Bei der Treibstoffzufuhr mache eine Sicherheitsabschaltung Probleme. Manche Teile müssten besser gewartet, mit anderen Komponenten müsse sorgsamer umgegangen werden. Sie gingen schnell kaputt, wenn die Soldaten mit ihren Gefechtshelmen oder schweren Kampfstiefeln dagegenkämen - Sicherungen etwa, heißt es.
That's not my equipment. I couldn't care less if it works or not.
I care more about wasting time on overblowing stupid shit like this. Why not simply state the truth of what is happening?
The same source goes on to say that more than 90% of affected vehicles are back in service after regular maintenace. So, why pretend as if these vehicles were a lost cause?
It's like the thing with the pregnant soldiers. Fiction made up in some moronic journalists head because they can't be bothered to do their due diligence.
It's absurd to accept that only 70% of the Pumas are operational during exercises in the best case
>Heeresinspekteur Alfons Mais soll vor Abgeordneten ausgeführt haben, dass bei mehreren vergleichbaren Übungen mit dem Puma im vergangenen Jahr "Klarstände" von akzeptablen 70 bis 80 Prozent erreicht worden seien, also ein Großteil der Fahrzeuge durchhielt.
When did the Germans get so c**tish about lisence manufacturing? They let the Mexicans and Argentines lisence produce Marder derivatives in the past. Even like a decade back they offered Chile and Brazil local MBT manufacturing.
Those are Leopard 1, and they are hardly even considered relevant on modern battlefields. That's why it lets everyone do whatever they want. It's like the US not giving a shit on other countries doing whatever they do with the Pattons.
That's not a Leopard 1 you blathering moron, that's a TAM2. Chile operates Leopard 2s and was offered local production of the A6 to replace their A4s. Brazil was offered the Abrams and Leopard 2. Fricking dolt opening your mouth when you don't know what you're talking about.
I was making a refernce to Osorio MBT. Chill the frick out hue Black person.
This conversation has nothing to do with the Osorio, you're just a buffoon.
>This conversation has nothing to do with the Osorio
For me it does. Because it's the last and only meaningful attempt made by sudacas to make anything that comes close to modern MBTs.
That has nothing to do with Germans being schizophrenic gays about arms exports and you're arguing counter logically because Germany DID offer Chile and Brazil local production.
>you're arguing counter logically because Germany DID offer Chile and Brazil local production.
Germany never offered local production or tech transfer to them unless you're lying.
Germany offered Brazil the right to produce the Leopard 2 under lisence to replace their Leopard 1 fleet but Oto Merala countered with a proposal to put the Centauro turret on their Leopard 1 as a stop gap. Presently it seems that Brazil will just locally build the Centauro in Brazil for now and then produce a new MBT locally with a foreign partner. There is a theory that Japan could be the partner but Japan presently cannot export tanks.
>Germany offered Brazil the right to produce the Leopard 2 under lisence
The only license they gave you is a right to produce a few non-significant parts and assemble them with German made components. It's the same shit as the Greeks do.
Germans have stated they would allow Brazilians full production. Just like how they offer that to the Brits and Australians. Italian and Swedish systems have simply been beating German options in recent tenders.
Boxer was too fat for Brazil so SuperAV and Centauro were selected. Simple as. Maybe when Brazil chooses a new tracked ifv Germans will have more luck. I suspect Lynx would be too heavy too though and CV90 would be selected.
No you dipshit. Brazilians chose the Centauro over the Boxer MGS because the German unit weight near 45 fricking tonnes. Almost as much as a proper MBT.
KMW wanted FAMAE to build their products under lisence for Latin America but that was never approved by the homosexuals in the German government. KMW also wanted to send the Leopard 2 to Ukraine from the begining but has been blocked by King gay Scholz from the start. KMW does however have a facility in Brazil these days.
>Chile operates Leopard 2s and was offered local production of the A6 to replace their A4s. Brazil was offered the Abrams and Leopard 2.
Assembly and full line transfer are two different kinds. Just because you assemble cars from imported kits, it doesn't mean that you share the technology.
For example, Egypt has been producing Abrams for decades but that didn't led to them anywhere close to making their own. Now they're currently seeking to mass produce K2 just like Poland did.
Brazil always requires tech transfers.
>Brazil always requires tech transfers.
Yeah which is why the deal never went on. Go figures!
Brazil didn't want the Leopard 2. Their weight limit for their new MBT tender is 50 tons.
That's not a Leopard 1.
I remember when Poles wanted to put ERA bricks on their Leopards as part of their PL upgrade but Germans refused to allow Poles to put their ERAWA on them and instead offered to design a special ERA package produced in Germany.
It's almost guaranteed to win and would have already won if not for kraut lobbying.
K2 was built for mountains and the leopard has problems with the cold.
/k/ is just being moronic because they fell for the "Korea-shill" falseflagging.
Why would anyone from MIC in their right mind shill on /k/
They wouldn't.
There is a few shills, but it's mostly bots doing low tier dissonance.
And arma/warriortard, and the Korean tard, and the chinkposter, and noguns /misc/tards.
They can frick off too.
Korean tard IS warriortard anon.
He makes those threads so he can shill against them, he's an insufferable homosexual.
>leopard has problems with the cold
They were built for the cold
>the leopard has problems with the cold.
Kek, where on earth did you get that moronic take?
He's a Macgay and thinks that Leopard needs the Snow Leopard update to work in the cold
Leopard 2s have problems with everything, let's be real here, its not considered a top tier tank
Let's be real here, it's widely considered the best or second-best tank in the world, leagues ahead of any asiatic or russian shitbox with the the sole possible exception of the Japanese Type 10.
1 K2
2 M1a2sep3
large power gap
3 Leopard 2
large power gap
everything else, simple as
The entire MIC industry ranks it this way regardless of what morons on /k want to delusion themselves because they like the shape or color of one tank versus another, in the real world it comes down to actual combat capabilities
you forget also the fact that Nammo is willing to make their own(?) K2 ammo, and Hyundai Rotem is even willing to put a factory in Norway to produce them there.
>k2 was built for mountains
ah yeah look at those tanks trekking
You are aware that Finnland, Canada and Norway operate the Leo 2 in Arctic conditions for decades now right?
When it comes to mountains the list grows even more.
is that trophy on the K2?
Cope poolack. K2 is complete shit compared to Leopards. Soon you poolack filth will be exterminated
Keep seething, Soviet rape baby.
They aren't the same tanks at all, the K2 is nearly 20t lighter than the Leo2. Poland wants to build a heavy version but no one did any trials with armor that is acceptable for an European MBT, it's fine in Korea and Japan where they would fend off mostly coastal/mountain assaults, but in western/northern Europe those things would light up like candles against a mechanized attack force.
There's literally no evidence to support this assertion.
That's an uparmored version of K2 which offers almost the same level of protection as Leclerc XLR.
K2 is 60 tons with more horsepower than the Leopard 2 at 70 tons, this is not even a contest, a single K2 in reality could likely take out 3+ Leopard 2s in actual combat probably more
>60 tons
LMAO
>more horsepower
LMAO
>this is not even a contest
Agreed, one Leopard 2 could easily take out 10+ of these asiatic shitboxes in actual combat, probably a whole battalion if it wasn't for limited ammo capacity.
Asiatics are 100% win rate against krauts, never in the history of mankind has a german nation defeated an asiatic nation and in fact the precise reason why the germans are in central europe today instead of their ancestral homeland in Central Asia is because they were fleeing for their lives lmfao
100% of modern germans today have asiatic y dna due to the 8 to 80 program the soviets forced upon germany for decades
Ruthless.
if Korea is so great, why are they worse than Japan?
>worse than Japan
Only in your dreams maybe. South Korea is a bigger arms exporter than Japan.
Sorry for your butthurt, but you lost.
>Sorry for your butthurt, but you lost.
I'm an American, anon. I'm an impartial observer. But from where I'm standing, Japan just seems like a better country. Just callin' it like I see it.
>I'm an American
Post guns.
here you go anon. you get the 1970s fed loadout.
now you must post either guns or your chopstick collection depending on your nationality.
Where are the shells?
on the shelf. post your own guns and I'll humor you. you DO own guns, right anon?
>on the shelf
So? Go get a pic of it then or I'll consider it as a mock.
>he demands others post guns
>he wimps out when it's his turn and gives halfassed excuses
should I expect every Korean to be this much of a complete pussy?
>should I expect every Korean to be this much of a complete pussy
Yes.
Unless you're playing LoL or some shit in which case you'd better carry something since they will find your house and stab you.
>hurr durr korean
Why don't you stop being a troony and post actual guns with ammo unless you're a squinty eyed zipper head that is larping with airsofts.
Post hands.
>Why don't you stop being a troony and post actual guns with ammo unless you're a squinty eyed zipper head that is larping with airsofts.
You post yours and I'll post mine, anon. I've already stepped up. (I know you don't own guns and are 100% a foreigner.)
With that said, I'd be very interested to see an airsoft ONG Wingmaster.
>I-it's not airsoft just trust me dude...!
>w-why don't you post f-first...!!
Well if it's so evident then why are you so hesitant to show me? Is it really that much of a hard task that I gave you? Or are you an actual nogun larping as a gun owner?
post guns
So you are a yellow monkey. Just as I expected. Next time when you larp, you'd better prepare mock ammunition for those airsoft guns.
sorry, I don't speak noguns.
>post airsoft gun
>get called out for a larper
>n-no...yuo....!!
Here's ~~*You*~~.
>Verification not required.
not that anon, but...
you have yet to post, larper
and your desperate attempts at racism leads one to believe that you're a brownoid who lives in an insignificant shithole
>Japan just seems like a better country.
If a nation still uses fricking fax machines and floppy drives to handle its governmental/corporate services as far into fricking 2022, and would have continued to use them if the coof had not kick everybody in the balls, it deserves to be compared with the likes of Brazil for all I care.
https://restofworld.org/2022/japan-will-struggle-to-give-up-floppy-disks-and-fax-machines-for-the-digital-age/
US here that served several tours, no comparison SK > Japan
>South Korea is a bigger arms exporter than Japan.
Because Japan makes shit for themselves and themselves alone so they don't bother exporting, not helped by how the longest time their laws prevented the export of weapons.
>Because Japan makes shit for themselves
You're saying as if it only applies to them.
>they don't bother exporting
Where have you been? They've been trying to sell them for the last decade, yet they failed.
Yes correct Japan does make shit, their weapons are comical bad by modern standards, probably worse than China and certainly worse than Russia, simply not competitive in the international MIC marketplace
I get that you're doing that shit where you shit on japan to ludicrous levels to bait low iq morons into shitting on Korea.
But if we're talking about cost efficiency, you're unironically correct. jap shit is some of the most expensive weapons on the planet, especially for how middle-of-the-pack they are in performance.
The biggest global rearmament and the japs announced that they're exporting weapons now. And literally nobody is interested.
Korea has never contributed to any of those wins though, on the contrary it was always dominated and enslaved by those asiatic powers, with the latest case in point being Imperial Japan.
Korea has never lost a war involving actual combat in its entire history other than the Mongols where it ended up a truce whereby Korean princes were forced to marry Mongol princesses as Mongols wanted to improve their genetic lines, dead fricking serious
The craziest part of this is that Korea was always outnumbered a gazillion to one, the fact that they are still a distinct ethnicity today and the only race with 100% Allele A (all other places have Allele G which originated in subsaharan Africa) genetically proves out their combat or at least ethnic survivalable superiority
From a dna perspective its almost unexplainable how the only 100% Allele A genetics are found in the Korean Peninsula, every other part of the world has admixtures of Allele G...
>actual combat
Yes most of the time luckily Japan did protect it.
Blatant bullshit and kimchi cope.
More like Korea has never won (or stopped getting steamrolled to be more accurate) a war without outside factors such as intervention by its master countries, and in many cases Koreans didn't even matter in wars fought in Korea. Also, just because Korea surrendered with lightning speed and sucked aggressor's dick as hard as possible before it developed into a real war, doesn't mean Korea won the war, that's why the history of Korea is all about being subordinate to dominant powers.
Irrelevant, not to mention samples were only taken in one city in Korea.
>one of the major cities in Korea
>decent sample size
>literally 100% lmao
>too moronic to pass statistics class
galactic levels of cope
Koguryo-Sui War, 300,000 Koreans versus 3+ million Chinese, almost no casualties almost every Chinese killed and lead to the downfall of the Sui Dynasty
Imjin Wars, Korea outnumbered anywhere between 3:1 to 5:1 and still ended up destroying the Japanese in actual combat, Admiral Yi with 13 ships literally sank the entire Japanese navy of over 300 ships without losing a single ship
This does not even include the Korean colonization of the Japanese islands over 2500 years ago, Japan was inhabited by indigenous Jomon people that were near genocided by the Korean colonist Yayoi people, even today the Japanese dna is something like 90%+ y dna from Korean dna
Lmfao
>Koguryo-Sui War
If anything, Koguryo is part of Manchurian history, and the numbers are extremely exaggerated.
>Imjin Wars
Korea was conquered by a Japanese daimyo within a month, lost one million people, and got its ass saved by Ming China and the daimyo's death. That's one of the finest examples of how Korea never stopped getting utterly btfo without outside factors. In fact Korea wasn't even allowed to participate in the peace negotiations between Japan and Ming, pretty much the same as the Sino-Japanese War (Japan vs Qing China over Korea) and the Korean War (Commies vs US over Korea). Korea has always been a playground for great powers.
>Korean colonization of the Japanese islands
Typical Korean cope fantasy and wewuzzing, manifestation of interiority complex towards Japan. The Japonic peoples came from the continent in the first place.
Koguryo = genetically Korean, Manchurians are genetically close to Korean and both are distinct from han chinks
Koguryo = Korean names, Koreanic language, Korean is closer to Turkish than to han chink language
Imjin Wars = Korea was completely disarmed due to the royalty only allowing the royal guards to have weapons and Japan outnumbered Korea 5:1, so yeah Japan won the initial battles but Korea completely mogged in the war and ended up genociding all of the nips other than the few that could flee for their lives, again Korea population was something like 3 million compared to 30 million in Japan and still complete moggery by Korea, Koreans are just better at everything, simple as
Imjin War was a decisive Korean victory, even Japanese history books reflects this as a massive embarrassment due to the overwhelming numbers Japan had in the invasion
The back story from the Japanese perspective is that the Japanese considered Koreans kinfolks, effectively the same and tried to convince Korea to united with Japan to invade Ming China, Korea ended up literally beating both Japan and Ming China, pretty impressive for a nation that was outnumbered massively by both Japan and China, Koreans must be really tough people
asiatic cope fantasy at its finest.
Korea was curbstomped in the Imjin War. When the Ming Army arrived, Korea was practically over. Two capitals were occupied, the king had already fled, his princes had been captured, useless Korean armies getting massacred everywhere, and it's the Ming that managed to recapture Pyongyang and set up peace negotiation, even though they also got crushed at Pyokjeyek. The war is no different than the Korean War - Korea gets steamrolled and its master of the time saves it ass, and actually partition of the peninsular was on the table during the Japan-Ming negotiations too. Also Japanese casualties were pretty small, evident from the number of killed generals/commanders (almost zero) as opposed to Korea piling up bodies of high-ranked officers including Yi sun shin. Korea is such a joke.
Korea decisively won the Imjin War and genocided the nips and chinks, this after taking years to properly arm up against the souless bugs from both untermensh nations and being outnumbered 5:1 against nips and 50:1 against chinks, Koreans still won
If history has taught us anything its that 1 Korean soldier can easily beat 5 nips and 50 chinks, simple as
Other than against china have the nips ever won a war? They seem to start strong but always ends up getting brutally mogged, ww2 nips were beating the us until the us was able to react and ended up decisively crushing the nips and even dropped a few nukes for good measure even though the nips were going to surrender anyways
In reality nips rely on treachery to establish some gains but always get demolished
Delusion everywhere. This is also just about a test between two tanks too.
No it didn't, all the records and material evidence point to the exact same fact that Korea was UTTERLY stomped and that Japan's internal rivalry sparked by Hideyoshi's death put an end to the invasion.
The official dynastic record of Ming China itself admits it, saying "The invasion lasted nearly seven years and casualties exceeded many hundred thousand. China and the vassal (Korea) fought hand in hand but they had no chance of victory. Only the death of Hideyoshi brought the calamities of warfare to an end" - couldn't be more accurate, no room for asiatic cope fantasy. Samurai mowed down Korean troops to the level of building a mound out of ears of killed Koreans, the Mimizuka.
>The monument enshrines the severed noses of at least 38,000 Koreans and over 30,000 Chinese killed during Toyotomi Hideyoshi's invasions.[6][7][8][9] One hundred and sixty-thousand Japanese troops had gone to Korea where they had taken 185,738 Korean heads and 29,014 Chinese ones, a grand total of 214,752.[4]:p. 230[16] As some might have been discarded, it is impossible to enumerate how many were killed in total during the war.[9]
Korean military incompetence is legendary, even worse than the Chinese, arguably the shittiest of Asia. A 17,000+ strong Korean army trying to invade Japan's Tsushima island in the 15th century for example got hilariously BTFO by the only 600 (six hundred) strong garrison, and begged for negotiation, and that's the sole case in history where Korea even tried an invasion of Japan (not even the mainland though). Korea isn't the eternal vassal state of Asia for no reason, and the massive inferiority complex towards Chadpan is totally warranted actually.
How did the Koreans manage to lose so many soldiers? The Chinese suffered only around 40k compared to nearly 200k Koreans which is a 5:1 ratio and definitely more than the Japanese since they didn't even send that many men. How badly can a country lose a war other than getting genocided because this is up there
Sorry only under 30k Chinese but this is even worse. How can the Korean shills in this thread live knowing this?
The Ming reinforcements were smaller than the Korean Army, but yeah Korean incompetence is at another level that warrants the desperate shilling.
>Admiral Yi with 13 ships literally sank the entire Japanese navy of over 300 ships without losing a single ship
Conveniently forgetting that Admiral Won Gyun completely fricked up Joseon's own naval fighting power in one battle where he had equal if not higher chance of winning against the Japs I see.
Frick "Korea strong" bullshit. Every nation had their admiral Yi for everg dozen Won Gyuns. Like Japs that had the 4 frick ups in WW2 in command and whoever war general the Japs unambiguously like, I don't give enough of a shit to know.
what happened here, then? because from my reading of the Japan-Korea Treaty of 1876, it sounds like Japan pressured Korea into becoming a protectorate by scaring them with a handful of modern gunboats. that's a little pathetic, isn't it?
>1876
>1941
>weeb trying too hard
The treaty lasted from 1876 until America defeated Japan and liberated its empire.
That whole time, the Japanese enjoyed full control of Korea and extraterritoriality within its borders. That's 71 years of rule, isn't it? Seems like a long time to be ruled by another country without even putting up a fight.
Keep in mind that many in korea wanted to modernize with japan, it was the royalty that did not, also at the time korea had maybe 10 million people compared to over 70 million in japan, effectively like how ireland was massively outnumbered by the english
There was no war or combat involved, many in korea (especially the elite businessmen that hated the royalty) wanted to join japan, there were many in japan that were actually ethnic koreans too and together they wanted to united korea with japan to create a world power, japan annexed korea and what goes largely uncovered is that a substantial part of the japanese military to include leadership were ethnic koreans
However, even though they shared ancient kinship the dividing line in the sand was that korea embraced Christianity whereas japan was staunchly against it, hence the effective root of the division and animosity between these countries
>the precise reason why the germans are in central europe today instead of their ancestral homeland in Central Asia is because they were fleeing for their lives lmfao
Indo-Iranians formed in Central Asia. Proto-Indo-Europeans originated around the Pontic-Caspian Steppe further west.
Sweden (Germanic) colonised Finland (Asiatic) for centuries
K2 is 55 tons and 1500 hp
Leopard 2A7 is 73 tons and 1479 hp
Its not a even a real contest and why every country wants the K2, Leopard 2s are literally leftover tanks for countries like Ukraine that can't get access to K2s or M1s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K2_Black_Panther
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2
this is a toy, please post at least one real picture of this thing
That's a Challenger 2 my guy
Is this true? The armor is very weak?
no, the "side armor" meme is just cope.
any tank in the world would get damaged just as much if hit by anything that will damage the K2. Just look at how leopard 2s fared in turkey.
The abrams is the only one who might survive but only the latest ones. And only the american latest one. Export version would not have the cutting edge composite armor.
Not to mention that the K2 is still a growing tank. Because it is so new, there is still a ton more weight that can be put on it. Polish/Norwegian K2s will have improved side armor that the Koreans didn't need for their terrain.
>2A4
I don't think that's as well protected as a A5 onwards though
>Abrams might survive
I think if the Abrams could tank it so could a 2A7 and a CR2
>K2 weight
Could this possibly cause huge issues like what happened to the Ajax?
The only real improvement done on A6 compared to its predecessors the wedged cover at the front.
>2A7 $15m
>K2 $8.5m
It was never going to be as good, look how much cheaper it is.
>look how much cheaper it is.
That's just german bureaucracy on display.
Gripen costs more than an F35 moron
Yes vecause the F35 is more popular.
The Leopard is the F35 in this scenario except it costs alot more despite everyone using it.
Idiot, tthe leopard is a mig23, the k2 is an f22 that is as exportable as an f16, hence why the k2 is the most sought after mbt and the leopard is increasingly having countries run away from it like the plague
You completely miss the point you imbecile
moron the K2 is more popular than the Leopard 2 and its not even close, there is not a single credible military in the world that prefers the Leopard 2 over the K2
Third world nations like Poland and Turkey want the K2.
As well as first world nations like Norway, meanwhile the only countries that are still buying the Leopard 2 are Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania lol
How did you determine the unit cost?
K2 has more advanced components but Korea has substantially greater industrial production capabilities than Germany by several factors, this is the sole reason why the K2 (which is still more expensive than any other tank to include the M1) has a lower cost than the Leopard 2A7
If both were scaled to produce the same number of units of say 10 per year the K2 would cost several times more than the Leopard 2
As a data point the K2 also costs 3x+ more than a Challenger 2 or a Leclerc, even with the far greater industrial production scale
In 2001 Challenger2 cost £4.8million which today would be £8.3 million.
What version of Leopard is that? 2E or Strv 122?
It's the uparmored K2 that's proposed to the Saudis before.
>K2 that's proposed
so it does not exist, it's fiction
They're not produced yet because no one ordered yet. But they do exist in seperate elements.
God I hope. Then you can sell the Leopards to Finland who in return send 10-12 to Ukraine.
Norway would just provide them directly as they've done with plenty of other systems during this war.
May I see the proof?
I believe a general of forsvarets has written an article recently alluding to the success of K2 in the test.
How many K2's have non-dogshit powertrains?
All of them?
Keep saying this to yourself as your engine and troony blow up like a hand grenade for the third time this week
weak
Why would it? No K2's have been delivered with the currently not-accepted powerpack. Its kinda in the name "not accepted".
Literally all of them since the sub-standard powerpack wasn't accepted into service. If you weren't a such moronic kraut, you could've probably figured this out on your own by doing some basic googling.
No surprise, Norway's terrain much more similar to the Korean peninsula than central Europe.
Norway has pretty horrible terrain for tanks. It is mostly mountains, swamps, forests and valleys. With a lot of tunnels and bridges for chokepoints.
The northernmost part of the country, the one that borders with Russia, has large flat areas. The southernmost has large flat areas too. We have been invaded before, there's no point in pretending we can't be invaded again.
Maybe parts of Finnmark during the vinter, but it gets really wet there during the summer. If the Russians reach Jæren with tanks, it would already be over. My father was a tank commander, and he explained to me why we have almost no tanks here.
Jæren. You must be joking. That's so far southwest the Russians might as well try for Scotland. The key to take Norway wholesale is to capture Oslo. That's a fourth of the entire population and most of the administration.
Capture oslo so you can take a bunch of office workers out of play? Lol dude no, the only possibility is to take towns across the coast and fjords, that is where the industry is.
Also good luck holding oslo, nothing of strategic advantage there so it is going to be a cluster frick holding that urban area
Would there be a war in Ukraine now if the russians had managed to capture Kyiv? Would there be a Ukraine?
Krautoids seething no one wants their shit MBT anymore lmao. Maybe you shouldn't have been pacifist cucks for the past 30 years?
Frick yeah I hope you are right. Regardless of the tests the Leo comes with FAR too many strings attached. When the Koreans sell something they dont demand control of it afterwards.
Not only that, they'll build you a factory and give you all the tech to build their shit locally.
Norway doesn't want a K2 factory. Our local needs are small ,we aren't into large scale weapons export, and a factory would be too easy a target in a war. Production of key spare parts, even co-production of software and electronics would be different - we already do that.
I didn't say they force you to do any of that, just that they'll give it to you if you want. The option for tech transfers and local production are a big fricking deal when you're talking about arms sales.
Kongsberg sells more arms than you might think
Kongsberg could build the K2 if there was a will to.
Kongsberg has no experience or capability with making heavy vehicles or armour plate work of that scale.
RITEK or Aker could do it, but it would probably be as part of some kind of industry consortium with KDA.
Production at Aker was one of the initial ideas from HRC
A K2 factory only for Norway would be wasted, but if Sweden and Finland in the future suddenly decided they'd be interested in K2s, then maybe a factory jointly run by our national weapon companies would probably be set up either in Sweden or Norway.
Don't forget Poles and potentially all of Baltics
I would love that. And even better if the K2 factory could also service the K9s.
>please buy leopard 2
>we promise that last one will be delivered by the end of this century
I must say the K2 really is shaping up to be the best tank of the current gen, in terms of armor, armament, manoeuvrability, and systems, it looks like a total game changer, and likely to shake up the global AFV sector. The current roster of customers and potential buyers is increasing almost daily, and Korean industry and engineering are starting to show their true excellence in the face of inadequate European (specifically German) designs and political limitations, I dare say that we are looking at 30+ years of Korean dominance in the military export market. If such a quantum leap can be achieved in tank capability and manufacturing, what can we imagine will be the next step for other systems such as military aerospace, small arms development, and ordnance.
Great, send 500 to Ukraine please. It’s so much better, no need to waste fuel on the Leopards.
The Leopard 2 is like 50 years old.
Not a surprise. Korean cars now beat German ones also...
OH NEINNEINNEINNEINNEIN
I kinda dig that turret face look for the Norway version except for the Trophy radars
>likely
>no source
LMAO. Slanteye cope thread detected.
dare i say, the asiatic shills on this board are even more forceful than the ziggers
> dare i say
Lmfao you talk like a fricking homosexual, 100% you speak with a lisp irl
don't you have anything better to do than defend korean tanks on /k/ ?
>defend korean tanks
No need to do so, since krauts are imploding by themselves.
Pretty sure it's a PrepHole meme, tourist newBlack person shill.
>my choice is a Leop-ACK
>Posts: 98
>IPs: 46
Wonder how many people in here are all the same Korean shill
In the late 1990s, Turkey wanted to buy and license produce Panzerhaubitze 2000 howitzers but German arms embargoes prevented it. In May 1998, South Korea's MoD approached Turkey to buy its K9 Thunder howitzers even before the ROK military bought it in December 1999. The MoU was signed in May 2000.
Turkey began producing the T-155 Firtina howitzer under license and single-handedly made the K9 a battle-proven weapon over the next 2 decades. In the mid 2010s, South Korea began getting orders from other countries and they kept piling up.
In 2007 as part of Turkey's MBT program/tender, South Korea showcased its under-development MBT which became the K2. In 2008 the deal was signed with the ROK for technical assistance on the Altay MBT.
The K2 itself entered ROK service in 2014. The Altay began serial production in 2023. Two Altays will deliver in May 2023. By this point Poland was ordering a large number of K2 tanks to also get away from German or French weapons.
Germany began 'informal embargoes' on small arms sales to Turkey in the early 2010s by way of delays and hurdles. This, combined with US Congress blocking UCAV sales to Turkey in 2012, directly promoted Turkey to pursue domestic production across all segments. By the late 2010s, Turkey is one of the largest small arms exporters and the largest UCAV exporter in the world.
Germany also tried to sabotage the Altay MBT program, first by getting involved with it, then resorting to usual delaying tactics and ultimately pulling out when Germany slapped formal arms embargoes on Turkey in 2019.
This frickery also prompted South Korea to develop their own domestic engines and transmissions to replace the German ones from the K2. The ROK also signed a deal with Turkey to supply engines and transmission for the initial 100 units of the Altay MBT called the Altay T1. Meanwhile, BMC Power has developed domestic Turkish engines and transmissions for the Altay T2 which begins production in 2024 and delivery in 2025.
Good post
> In [May 1998], South Korea's MoD approached Turkey to buy its K9 Thunder howitzers even before the ROK military bought it in December 1999. The MoU was signed in May 2000.
Meant to say May 1999.
*Spellcheck.
Interesting post
Turkey makes for an interesting innovator in this macroeconomic sense. Weird shit how things find their way to success
>Interesting post. Turkey makes for an interesting innovator in this macroeconomic sense. Weird shit how things find their way to success
Turkey made $4.4B in defense exports in 2022, up from $3.2B in 2021.
Germany made $8.8B in 2022, down from $9.2B in 2021.
The Turkish government expects $6B in defense exports in 2023.
Germany's influence and arms sales have peaked, and both are going downhill. They shot their foot by fricking with Turkey over the decades. They also had a de-facto arms embargo on Ukraine since 2014 up until weeks into the 2022 Russian invasion. By the 2030s Turkey will very likely match and eventually exceed German arms sales.
>What Germany does isnt dumbass. It is an attempt at power influence. In the past shit like this has worked. Now it doesnt
Care to elaborate who it influenced though?
Turkey became a dictatorship.
Germany not supporting that was the right call
> Turkey became a dictatorship.
> Germany not supporting that was the right call
Germany's embargoes against Turkey have been going on for decades straight, numbnuts. See:
South Korea's own rise as an arms export power is directly related to Germany's anti-Turkey embargoes.
Formal embargoes in the 1990s, informal embargoes in the early 2010s onward, and formal embargoes since 2019 onward.
The dictator in Turkey backs Ukraine, whereas the Russian stooges in Berlin are doing the best they could to sabotage the war effort.
pretty sure hes playing both sides as always
Turkish tin-pot dictator is literally blocking NATO expansion
Only thing theyve asked is for the swedes and finns to not support PKK and to hand over PKK elements
None of these two have any bearings on sweden or finland strategic capability
When Turkey was an actual military dictatorship, Germany sold weapons. When it stopped then the embargoes started.
CW was a different time
Turkey is like one of the strongest democratic countries out there, people are actually passionated about elections
Nah spd and grüne and linke were pushing their shitty marxism anti turkey propaganda with success
why did Germany embargo Turkey in the 90's? Was it because of Cyprus?
Goddamn K2NO/PL looks so good.
>Buying foreign
>At any point
Lol
F-35
Why is this board such a Korean MIC shill zone?
Why are you such a whiny homosexual?
The timing seems a bit poor. Leo2 got at least a decade more of service life left, which means K2 will be quite old by the time the next generation of western tanks are about to hit the production line.
The Korean design seems almost perfect for that scenario. Like it was built to age well.
There's no European tank that has been committed to being built or upgraded beyond current versions in decent numbers.
Because most European armies are not looking to replace their tank fleets quite yet.
Couldn't miss the point more if you tried. There a maybe 3 conceptual or prototyped design for European tanks beyond what exist now. The only one that has any commitment to buy is the Challenger 3, and only in small numbers. The Leopard upgrade that was shown off is fricked because the Germans won't find it and they're lighting their potential customer base on fire. The other is a transnational concept only.
And there are in fact, a lot of countries in Europe looking at replacing their older tanks.
Type 10 is superior. Best MBT in existence.
Non-existent side armor. See Red Effect's video on it.
Good thing you banzai charge enemies head on dumbass.
And it isn't non-existent, it is just light, because it can be, because it is glorious 100,000 times folded glorious Nippon microcrystalline armor.
Good for Japan not good for open fields of Europe.
Type 10 is also considered to be a lesser Type 90, which probably would've been better off for them to stick with.
I love the K2 because it makes krauts seethe hard as they realize they are losing their NATO tank export monopoly and that the 2A7 is an outdated and overpriced piece of shit. Plus, with all their recent homosexualry with export restrictions, nobody will buy want to buy the Leopard 3 and as a result it's already DOA.
As I said, it makes nobody seethe, Germany simply doesn’t have the capacity to produce tanks for others.
On top of it MBT are all outdated.
>it makes nobody seethe
Well, it certainly did for Nicholas Drummond....
K2's a better tank
Too many chinks, weebs, and brownoids poisoning the well again. Literally a year straight of these Black folk desperately trying to shut down all discussion about Korea.
I don't even think it's krauts at this point. They know better than anyone how fricked the bundeswher and their MIC is.
Biggest global rearming since the cold war and Korea has signed some of the biggest deals. Fricking cope.
Ive been under a rock what happen
It's very very old news. Norway is choosing a new tank, Korean K2 and Leopard 2 are the finalists of the trials, and that's about all that's been happening since october or so. If the Leo is chosen it means very little since Norway has already had the Leo platform for decades. If the K2 is chosen it will be kinda spectacular because the entire Scandinavia could end up with both a tank and arty system from South Korea. The technological differences at this point are small and Norway will likely never order more than 150-200 tanks total which is fiddlesticks. Why this is a theme now is because Germany's fuhrer Scholz refuses to let countries who have legitimely BOUGHT German tanks, give a few of them to Ukraine. What with him being a huge Putin fan, it's no surprise, but who wants to spend billions on something the previous owner wants control of?
is it normal for competitions to take over 3 months?
?
as in drag out the decision after trials.
last time I heard something like this happening was from aussies and they just fricking quit for some reason.
trials were back in february 2022. final offers and contract negotiations were done in november 2022, now its just a matter of waiting for the DoD to get the thumb out of their asses and sign a contract with KMW or HRC
The decision to blow a number of billion dollars on what will be a primary defence system for the next 2-3 decades is probably taking some time. I expect the tests to be long done by now. Negotiations have very likely become tangled in the effects of the Ukraine war; can the Germans even deliver any time soon under current conditions? Can the SK deliver now that they are hip deep in other orders? When they do decide I expect we will hear of it exceedingly fast.
The k2 might actually be the best tank in the world currently
>how so anon? Best armor, gun mobility?
Maybe, but it looks the coolest which easily makes it the best.
The reason its the best is because it's cheap and available (both for purchase and tech transfer) and doesn't come with dumbass stipulations about what the purchaser can do with their tanks.
What Germany does isnt dumbass. It is an attempt at power influence. In the past shit like this has worked. Now it doesnt because now military equipment has a purpose again, it's not just to show how good you are at using taxpayer money. Germany tries to get leverage and are shocked that the marked won't play with their marbles any more.
The point of my post was that all attributes were irrelevant because it looks cool
Damn K2 with extra armor looks so good.
>Not like this kraut sisters.....
Literally who is going to buy German equipment now with this export license shitshow
The Korean technology transfer model will make Korea, Poland, and any other country that signs on much more independent and allow them to have domestically produced high quality tank forces.
>the korean asiaticshit pavel cope troony online army appears
Neocon shill are on overdrive after Chadgermans refused to give piggies tankies
The Germans would just ban the export of their MTU engine and the L-44/L-55 guns to Korea if that happens, and see how the hooks can assemble their K2s
and embarrass themselves further by doing what would appear as a temper tantrum?
this is exactly why they developed their domestic versions as well iirc
The korean guns have no ties to the Rheinmetall gun outside of both being 55 caliber.
Are korean tanks any good or do they just sell because you can't or dont want to buy anything western?
Performance and quality is better than anything today, really nothing is even close
Korea is undefeated in wars against chinks and nips, chinks and nips are midgets that only rely on numbers, Koreans are physically much stronger with much higher iq, this is why Korea is still an independent country unlike japan which has lost every war it engaged in and china which is widely documented as the most genocided race in history
Pretty amazing how japan was always 3x+ and china 30x+ the population and still Korea mogged
Koreans are pretty based solely for not being like the japs and chinks who like to make themselves look huwite in their animation and comics, instead protraying themselves as what they look like
Hate to break it to you, Kim, but the sole reason Korea is around today is the Japanese blunder in WW2 and the US intervention, a geopolitical fluke that has nothing to do with competence of Koreans. Korea is just an ex-Japanese colony that happened to gain independence, though becoming a lesser Japan was a great improvement and unironically the best thing ever happened to Korea, compared to a lesser China it used to be for many centuries. Korea has been raped by Japanese military so much that the Rising Sun flag, symbol of Japanese military power, literally causes PTSD in Koreans, and how can you expect us to take you seriously? lmfao
Lmfao nips and chinks were genocided by koreans since the beginning of history, regardless of how many gorillion soulless bugs nips and chinks have since neither relies on skill or intelligence just zergrush and why nips and chinks always take crazy amount of casualties and always lose lmfao
This pic from rimpac 2022 sums it all up, anybody that was there knows that the south korean soldiers were all chads, bigger than us and european soldiers and far more fit, meanwhile the nips were smaller than the sudaca and pajeet soldiers lmfao
Picrel
yeah im sure being tall is super useful for boarding
The nip and the jeet in the pic would get mogged by a typical northern euro teenage girl lmfao
>tank thread
>suspicions amounts of experts of the ochinchin war of 1473 with decisive bugman victory
totally organic thread by the way, also please call your MP and recommend them to buy LG
God bless our Chaebol overlords at Samsung giving us cancer and making us commit suicide! Korea numbah wan Joseon one!