>cluster munitions >when you're trying to take back your own territory
No.
Send them more shells and give them long range capabilities with permission to strike inside Russia.
Also, just because the IFV taboo has been crossed, doesn't mean AFVs aren't needed.
Honest question regarding the F-16s - what would they offer? Russian AA is everywhere and they have Migs lobbing A2A missiles from Belarus. Barring stealth technology, what would 4th gen Western aircraft provide?
A thousand more APCs would probably be more useful.
Why the West is dragging their feet?
Intrrnational relations people are literally taught to be autistic in their uni courses, so they pretend Russia is an unmovable pole of some fundimental bipolar world order. In the case of Western Europe, these countries see Russia as a part of European "great powers" club.
>because theres still a chance russia may use nukes if we just stop giving a fuck about escalation.
No one in Russia will fire a nuke for Putin he's already tried it twice and one missile test. The missile forces are having none of his shit, they were the only part of Russia that ever had any fucking brains recruited.
If you go to berlin or munich brothels you can find a ton of ukranian and romanian whores, london and warsaw too, surprisingly less russian girls nowadays
without thinking that china knows it can bleed the west at the (slight) expense of russia and turn it back around on them? they've easily got the patience and industrial might to outlast the west at whatever they do. the west needs to walk it back hugely or lose it all.
The longer Russia finds itself in the state of hopeless war the higher chance it will completely implode. If Russia is just forcefully and rapidly pushed out of Ukraine they will have a chance to consolidate and recuperate, tell their citizens that it was all ebil HATO and Russia was simply unprepared for such a war, but will be ready next time. US and NATO pretend like they don't want Russia to collapse but in reality the only way to save Russia would be to defeat it swiftly.
>If Russia is just forcefully and rapidly pushed out of Ukraine they will have a chance to consolidate and recuperate
that would mean catastrophic losses, good luck telling your country that you need to send even more mobiks to die to win a war you already tried fighting and lost.
if that happens putin is gonna end up like gheddafi
Spineless politicians and bean-counting clerks with no concept of long-term consequences. Same thing that has been plaguing western militaries for the past 20 years.
>Why the West is dragging their feet?
I think they want to use ATACMS as a bargaining chip. I've heard that Russia might not have gone through with Iranian missile purchases because they worried about ATACMS being supplied in return.
The longer the war goes on, the more Russia destroys itself. That's it. Why do you think we're giving Ukraine aid at all? Because it's being used against Russia. The longer the war goes on, the better for the west.
Now if when Russia invaded they were met with massed armor, artillery, and modern western fighter jets and gained not a single inch of ground and were totally repelled to the Russian border, the war would be over. Putin would fall out of a window after accidentally ingesting enough Polonium to make him glow. Russia would be able to recover. If instead the war goes as it does where Ukraine is drip fed enough equipment to keep inflicting mass casualties and cause major materiel destruction, but still in a precarious enough position Russia can pretend to its people that it is winning, things can continue. Russia burns through all of its equipment and manpower in an utterly foolish and pointless war, waged solely so Putin can keep his life. Because as soon as he surrenders, he is dead and someone takes his place.
Do you have any idea how long it takes to train someone for an F16? Also does Ukraine have the money for them? We can't just throw multimillion dollar systems to a nation with a long track record of corruption and take an IOU for payment
And then have them not pay it back either? Or crash the global economy by flooding their economy with worthless bills to pay off their debt like what happened when we forced Germany to pay war reparations? Actually you know global financial collapse sounds pretty rad, I now support sending Ukraine our most expensive gear in hopes Russia pays for it
>Do you have any idea how long it takes to train someone for an F16?
Less than a year if you're not fucking around, especially if you're training someone who is already a trained pilot but on a MiG or something. So they should be flying them in combat already.
The goal is Russian denuclearization. And for that to happen, Russia has to be baited into a drawn out, painful defeat where they will keep the delusion of a reversal until the very point they realize they have jackshit left to negotiate with, so its either result in something that makes Versaille look like well-intentioned international banter, or them giving up their nuclear capability in perpetuity.
Denuclearisation as a treaty term doesn't make any goddamn sense. They would seriously rather take Versailles 2 than that. At least they could cut off the West and become a de facto Chinese satellite state for a time to get around that, this would be much better for them than giving up nooks since nooks are the only reason they have any geopolitical influence at all.
It's retarded to imagine the collective West has any goal like that. The goal is for Russia to fuck off out of Ukraine, that's literally it. But none of them know how to go about it and all of them are worried if shit drops too fast Russia might actually chimp out and flip the table.
Why do people always imagine there's a plan whereas in fact it's pretty clear our leaders have no plan at all and the ship is rudderless in a chaotic sea?
>The goal is for Russia to fuck off out of Ukraine, that's literally it.
No it isn't; the goal is to permanently neuter Russia by slowly dragging its economy into the abyss as it continues to wage an unwinnable war. If Russia manages any major breakthroughs I imagine more effective supplies will be sent, but for the time being this semi-stalemate suits the Americans just fine.
because the war will not end just because russia is kicked out of ukraine. the war can only end when either russia or ukraine decides it can no longer continue, can no longer even pretend to continue. and that requires that either ukraine or russia - preferably both - be bled utterly dry.
Russia (and Iran and Best Korea, to an extent) does have a capacity to chimp out directly against the US via WMDs and critical infrastructure attacks which would weaken them against China
General "I want to understand white rage" Milley is trying to comprehend Ukrainian rage towards Russians. Like Zuckerberg he is trying to become a human being and failing as he takes woke girldick up his ass.
Oh shit, they've got a sassy black lady to end it all. Better watch out Russia! She's gonna snap her fingers all sassy-like and tell Russia what's what!
Can we send all the welfare queens together with it? no refund policy though, just imagine how much we would save in the budget if we got rid of all of them, could easily save enough to pay the students debt
>Can we send all the welfare queens together with it? >if we got rid of all of them, could easily save enough to pay the students debt
So you want to send all the welfare queens so you can pay for other welfare queens?
>why the West is drip feeding what Ukranians need NOW
Because Ukraine was always meant to lose slowly and set up to be the fall patsy from the very beginning. The McCains, the Nulands, the Boltons, and the other chickenshithawk neocons simply see Ukraine and everyone else as a means to an end, and you failed to deliver. So get steamrolled like ISIS, Ukroids.....unless of courseyou actually want to save a slither of yourself and mutiny against the globalists in Kiev and declare ceasefire to negotiate neutrality. If the Polish volunteers can waste the Azogbots, so can (You). >why not send moooooooooooore
Cuz nobody likes morons. Ukromorons are a special kind of moron with their chronic begging for gibs when war is a business, not a charity. Period.
>send cluster munitions
god I wish
It's unfair.
It's so unfair that we have so many amazing cold war era weapons designed and intended to turn vatniks into soup and yet we refuse to let them fulfill their reason for ever existing in the first place.
hmm, lets do the calculus here gay >give Ukraine DPICMs >a few hundred farmers and children die over the next ~50 years due to UXO
>don't give Ukraine DPICMs >tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian civilians die in an extended war that otherwise would have ended sooner had they cluster munitions
basically you're a retard and a gay
move to canada and seek out MAiDs
thanks
You are so stupid it hurts. Seek out Jesus, stop fantasizing about future Ukrainian children losing limbs because your "it so cool like bideo gamez".
here you messed up the your quote, don't worry I fixed it for you. Here's a tip newfriend, you can just click on the post instead of wasting time typing it in.
[...]
here you messed up the your quote, don't worry I fixed it for you. Here's a tip newfriend, you can just click on the post instead of wasting time typing it in.
whoops, you messed up again. Don't worry, I'm here to help. There ya go, fixed that link for you!
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>schizoid posting
Xhe is in shambles, hands shaking.
Also I'm >57470371 btw
Either troll or small brain
is another anon >l-lies ;~~*~~*
Seek MAiDs pls
thanks
I'm afraid you're the retard. Cluster munitions are way too effective against infantry (which is what russia is attacking with) to pass it up in the biggest war since WW2.
>will someone think of the children!!
russia is using munitions stockpiled from ww2, about 30% of the munitions they're using are rated as defective, so three out of every ten shells/bombs/rockets dropped just lay there with the warheads intact.
there's probably so many unexploded bombs and shells laying around already you could raze the country twice over.
>get clluster munitions >kill so many russians that their army colapses sooner that it is >victory >force russian soldieres and normal citizens who supported the SMO openly to seek and defuse cluster ammo >ukraine is cleansed of russians and cluster ammo >constant stream of videos where russians getting blown up even after the war
The West is pissing on the bear and chucking rocks at it while it's frustratedly roaring and slipping around in it's own shit and falling around comically.
NOOOOO!!! You don't understand! It would hurt Monke's feelings and if monke's feelings are hurt that is like hurting the feelings of all the Russian people and they would simply be left with no other choice than to launch all of their hypersonic nukes (which definitely work, this is not a bluff).
Frankly I wonder why NBCs weapons haven't been used yet, by any side.
Vatniks are subhumans seething really hard that their little 3 days operation turned into a disaster, and ukies are fighting desperatly against invaders. Both would have enough reasons to fight dirty.
>Frankly I wonder why NBCs weapons haven't been used yet, by any side.
They are not very useful it is why they never played much of a part in ww2 either even though ww1 had ironed out the practicalities.
Complete removal of Russia from Ukraine, including Crimea [ongoing]
Massive humiliation and loss of reputation of Russia (and Russian military hardware) on the global stage [done]
Dissolution of the CSTO [de facto done]
Invigoration of NATO and expansion with new allies (Sweden, Finland) [de facto done]
Restoration of Ukraine: return of deported people and abducted children, reconstruction/Marshal Plan, start of integration into the EU and NATO) [tbd]
Maximum degradation of Russia's capabilities to interfere abroad: military, sabotage, espionage, subterfuge, diplomatic, economic, ... [ongoing, undetermined end state]
Scaring off China from Taiwan [status unclear]
Cool war footage and funny memes [380% quota achievement and growing]
Ultimate goal:
Denuclearization and dissolution of the Russian Federation [???]
>Denuclearization and dissolution of the Russian Federation
Thats a massive destabilisation for the region tho given how much ex soviet rebublics go to war, NK, ossetia, georgia, armenia, azerbaijan etc etc
More like paul moderaro amirite?
If he wants to end it he would ask for nukes and make it look like ukies developed them on their own
>cluster munitions
>when you're trying to take back your own territory
No.
Send them more shells and give them long range capabilities with permission to strike inside Russia.
Also, just because the IFV taboo has been crossed, doesn't mean AFVs aren't needed.
Honest question regarding the F-16s - what would they offer? Russian AA is everywhere and they have Migs lobbing A2A missiles from Belarus. Barring stealth technology, what would 4th gen Western aircraft provide?
A thousand more APCs would probably be more useful.
Intrrnational relations people are literally taught to be autistic in their uni courses, so they pretend Russia is an unmovable pole of some fundimental bipolar world order. In the case of Western Europe, these countries see Russia as a part of European "great powers" club.
Putin has no expectations of getting anything back intact he sends across border illegally without declaring a war
Why the West is dragging their feet?
because theres still a chance russia may use nukes if we just stop giving a fuck about escalation.
>because theres still a chance russia may use nukes if we just stop giving a fuck about escalation.
No one in Russia will fire a nuke for Putin he's already tried it twice and one missile test. The missile forces are having none of his shit, they were the only part of Russia that ever had any fucking brains recruited.
DOO EEEET
They want to bleed Russia dry at the expense of Ukraine.
I want to drain my balls dry at the expense of cheap Russian prostitutes.
If you go to berlin or munich brothels you can find a ton of ukranian and romanian whores, london and warsaw too, surprisingly less russian girls nowadays
The AIDS has been at work on them 🙁
Don't, unless you want to get AIDS.
without thinking that china knows it can bleed the west at the (slight) expense of russia and turn it back around on them? they've easily got the patience and industrial might to outlast the west at whatever they do. the west needs to walk it back hugely or lose it all.
The longer Russia finds itself in the state of hopeless war the higher chance it will completely implode. If Russia is just forcefully and rapidly pushed out of Ukraine they will have a chance to consolidate and recuperate, tell their citizens that it was all ebil HATO and Russia was simply unprepared for such a war, but will be ready next time. US and NATO pretend like they don't want Russia to collapse but in reality the only way to save Russia would be to defeat it swiftly.
>If Russia is just forcefully and rapidly pushed out of Ukraine they will have a chance to consolidate and recuperate
that would mean catastrophic losses, good luck telling your country that you need to send even more mobiks to die to win a war you already tried fighting and lost.
if that happens putin is gonna end up like gheddafi
We’re trying to buy Russia’s defeat at a bargain price
https://open.spotify.com/episode/1QUmANkfCRxtTfqfMEl3Uz
Because General 'imagay' Milley is a giant gay
Microplastics causing low testosterone
MIC wants more government contracts to refill "empty" inventories in the west. The longer the war goes on the more money they can steal.
Spineless politicians and bean-counting clerks with no concept of long-term consequences. Same thing that has been plaguing western militaries for the past 20 years.
>Why the West is dragging their feet?
I think they want to use ATACMS as a bargaining chip. I've heard that Russia might not have gone through with Iranian missile purchases because they worried about ATACMS being supplied in return.
The longer the war goes on, the more Russia destroys itself. That's it. Why do you think we're giving Ukraine aid at all? Because it's being used against Russia. The longer the war goes on, the better for the west.
Now if when Russia invaded they were met with massed armor, artillery, and modern western fighter jets and gained not a single inch of ground and were totally repelled to the Russian border, the war would be over. Putin would fall out of a window after accidentally ingesting enough Polonium to make him glow. Russia would be able to recover. If instead the war goes as it does where Ukraine is drip fed enough equipment to keep inflicting mass casualties and cause major materiel destruction, but still in a precarious enough position Russia can pretend to its people that it is winning, things can continue. Russia burns through all of its equipment and manpower in an utterly foolish and pointless war, waged solely so Putin can keep his life. Because as soon as he surrenders, he is dead and someone takes his place.
Do you have any idea how long it takes to train someone for an F16? Also does Ukraine have the money for them? We can't just throw multimillion dollar systems to a nation with a long track record of corruption and take an IOU for payment
Just put it on Russia’s bill. Threaten eternal sanctions until they repay Ukraine’s war debt
And then have them not pay it back either? Or crash the global economy by flooding their economy with worthless bills to pay off their debt like what happened when we forced Germany to pay war reparations? Actually you know global financial collapse sounds pretty rad, I now support sending Ukraine our most expensive gear in hopes Russia pays for it
>IOU as payment
the payment is russian blood, just as our repayment for Lend Lease to the Soviet Union was german blood.
This time though we just also get some drone footage and youtube vids of SMOOOOKER incidents.
>Do you have any idea how long it takes to train someone for an F16?
Less than a year if you're not fucking around, especially if you're training someone who is already a trained pilot but on a MiG or something. So they should be flying them in combat already.
the west shouldn't be involved
Because the goal isn't Ukranian victory.
The goal is Russian denuclearization. And for that to happen, Russia has to be baited into a drawn out, painful defeat where they will keep the delusion of a reversal until the very point they realize they have jackshit left to negotiate with, so its either result in something that makes Versaille look like well-intentioned international banter, or them giving up their nuclear capability in perpetuity.
Denuclearisation as a treaty term doesn't make any goddamn sense. They would seriously rather take Versailles 2 than that. At least they could cut off the West and become a de facto Chinese satellite state for a time to get around that, this would be much better for them than giving up nooks since nooks are the only reason they have any geopolitical influence at all.
It's retarded to imagine the collective West has any goal like that. The goal is for Russia to fuck off out of Ukraine, that's literally it. But none of them know how to go about it and all of them are worried if shit drops too fast Russia might actually chimp out and flip the table.
Why do people always imagine there's a plan whereas in fact it's pretty clear our leaders have no plan at all and the ship is rudderless in a chaotic sea?
>The goal is for Russia to fuck off out of Ukraine, that's literally it.
No it isn't; the goal is to permanently neuter Russia by slowly dragging its economy into the abyss as it continues to wage an unwinnable war. If Russia manages any major breakthroughs I imagine more effective supplies will be sent, but for the time being this semi-stalemate suits the Americans just fine.
because the war will not end just because russia is kicked out of ukraine. the war can only end when either russia or ukraine decides it can no longer continue, can no longer even pretend to continue. and that requires that either ukraine or russia - preferably both - be bled utterly dry.
Unfortunately the West doesn't need necessarily need Ukraine to win, they just need Russia to lose
Russia (and Iran and Best Korea, to an extent) does have a capacity to chimp out directly against the US via WMDs and critical infrastructure attacks which would weaken them against China
>Why
Because Ukraine needs NATO boots on the ground to ""win"" and that is not happening, this is only a proxy war to isolate Russia.
Probably cos for all the hawk rhetoric they dont actually want russia too destabilized.
General "I want to understand white rage" Milley is trying to comprehend Ukrainian rage towards Russians. Like Zuckerberg he is trying to become a human being and failing as he takes woke girldick up his ass.
Because outside of the internet, no one actually gives a fuck about Ukraine.
10,000 Russians die every month this goes on. Why stop?
Why do they need all that of they're winning?
I dunno? Why would anyone want to win more effectively and thus reduce deaths of their own men?
Oh shit, they've got a sassy black lady to end it all. Better watch out Russia! She's gonna snap her fingers all sassy-like and tell Russia what's what!
What even is this post?
want her to sit on my face
HEAVY MACHINE GUN
>vatmoron can't handle based black lady but can definitely handle getting raped by his superiors
lmao
You can always win harder. Imagine total vatnik genocide without even a single Ukrainian blade of grass being damaged all the while.
SVB happened, people already forgot about Ukraine
Can we send all the welfare queens together with it? no refund policy though, just imagine how much we would save in the budget if we got rid of all of them, could easily save enough to pay the students debt
>Can we send all the welfare queens together with it?
>if we got rid of all of them, could easily save enough to pay the students debt
So you want to send all the welfare queens so you can pay for other welfare queens?
BRICS is a meme so if that is true it amounts no more than a statistical curiosity by lumping those countries together.
I'm asking a sincere question, why the West is drip feeding what Ukranians need NOW, and you answer me with bullshit, horseshit, humbug and Twitter.
>why the West is drip feeding what Ukranians need NOW
Because Ukraine was always meant to lose slowly and set up to be the fall patsy from the very beginning. The McCains, the Nulands, the Boltons, and the other chickenshithawk neocons simply see Ukraine and everyone else as a means to an end, and you failed to deliver. So get steamrolled like ISIS, Ukroids.....unless of courseyou actually want to save a slither of yourself and mutiny against the globalists in Kiev and declare ceasefire to negotiate neutrality. If the Polish volunteers can waste the Azogbots, so can (You).
>why not send moooooooooooore
Cuz nobody likes morons. Ukromorons are a special kind of moron with their chronic begging for gibs when war is a business, not a charity. Period.
Trying too hard
Wow anon you've got it all figured out! Dunning-kruger is strong with this retard
>4chan - the post
I want England to nuke Donetsk just to see drama on your shitty board.
I suppose 4chan soundbites is the way to derail a thread.
oh no, a Ukraine thread got derailed
the horror
>send cluster munitions
god I wish
It's unfair.
It's so unfair that we have so many amazing cold war era weapons designed and intended to turn vatniks into soup and yet we refuse to let them fulfill their reason for ever existing in the first place.
joe, you must let them go
You are so stupid it hurts. Seek out Jesus, stop fantasizing about future Ukrainian children losing limbs because your "it so cool like bideo gamez".
hmm, lets do the calculus here gay
>give Ukraine DPICMs
>a few hundred farmers and children die over the next ~50 years due to UXO
>don't give Ukraine DPICMs
>tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian civilians die in an extended war that otherwise would have ended sooner had they cluster munitions
basically you're a retard and a gay
move to canada and seek out MAiDs
thanks
Also no (you)s for retard gays
You forget that the ground is already littered with UXO and booby traps.
here you messed up the your quote, don't worry I fixed it for you. Here's a tip newfriend, you can just click on the post instead of wasting time typing it in.
Either troll or small brain
whoops, you messed up again. Don't worry, I'm here to help. There ya go, fixed that link for you!
>schizoid posting
Xhe is in shambles, hands shaking.
Also I'm >57470371 btw
is another anon
>l-lies ;~~*~~*
Seek MAiDs pls
thanks
I'm afraid you're the retard. Cluster munitions are way too effective against infantry (which is what russia is attacking with) to pass it up in the biggest war since WW2.
>will someone think of the children!!
russia is using munitions stockpiled from ww2, about 30% of the munitions they're using are rated as defective, so three out of every ten shells/bombs/rockets dropped just lay there with the warheads intact.
there's probably so many unexploded bombs and shells laying around already you could raze the country twice over.
>get clluster munitions
>kill so many russians that their army colapses sooner that it is
>victory
>force russian soldieres and normal citizens who supported the SMO openly to seek and defuse cluster ammo
>ukraine is cleansed of russians and cluster ammo
>constant stream of videos where russians getting blown up even after the war
win-win
you are a worthless retard
Holy fuck. Give them to Ukraine.
ah good luck westerner trying to poke the sleeping bear with a stick but you will have a surprise in spring
You'll have rotting flesh on your stick because the bear was dead all along?
The West is pissing on the bear and chucking rocks at it while it's frustratedly roaring and slipping around in it's own shit and falling around comically.
Cluster munitions is a short term fix that would create a long term problem.
Just nuke russia
Who would care?
Do you want nuclear war? This is how you get nuclear war.
Shut the fuck up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning
How ironic that this saying is Russian
Why would Russia kill itself? Suicide isn’t very heroic my man
Send Ukraine nuclear weapons
No
NOOOOO!!! You don't understand! It would hurt Monke's feelings and if monke's feelings are hurt that is like hurting the feelings of all the Russian people and they would simply be left with no other choice than to launch all of their hypersonic nukes (which definitely work, this is not a bluff).
>It would hurt Monke's feelings
>and if monke's feelings are hurt that is like hurting the feelings of all the Russian people
good
the enemy is slav
Frankly I wonder why NBCs weapons haven't been used yet, by any side.
Vatniks are subhumans seething really hard that their little 3 days operation turned into a disaster, and ukies are fighting desperatly against invaders. Both would have enough reasons to fight dirty.
>Frankly I wonder why NBCs weapons haven't been used yet, by any side.
They are not very useful it is why they never played much of a part in ww2 either even though ww1 had ironed out the practicalities.
Several countries, including China, have explicitly warned Russia against the use of NBC weapons.
Realistically what does "victory" look like? I havent heard serious answers yet.
Complete removal of Russia from Ukraine, including Crimea [ongoing]
Massive humiliation and loss of reputation of Russia (and Russian military hardware) on the global stage [done]
Dissolution of the CSTO [de facto done]
Invigoration of NATO and expansion with new allies (Sweden, Finland) [de facto done]
Restoration of Ukraine: return of deported people and abducted children, reconstruction/Marshal Plan, start of integration into the EU and NATO) [tbd]
Maximum degradation of Russia's capabilities to interfere abroad: military, sabotage, espionage, subterfuge, diplomatic, economic, ... [ongoing, undetermined end state]
Scaring off China from Taiwan [status unclear]
Cool war footage and funny memes [380% quota achievement and growing]
Ultimate goal:
Denuclearization and dissolution of the Russian Federation [???]
>Denuclearization and dissolution of the Russian Federation
Thats a massive destabilisation for the region tho given how much ex soviet rebublics go to war, NK, ossetia, georgia, armenia, azerbaijan etc etc
soviets collapsed without nuking anyone(but themselves lmao) and that was arguably a bigger happening
>Denuclearization and dissolution of the Russian Federation
I rather believe the latter then the former.
Probably rather go out in a mushroom cloud then give up the nukes.
Seems to be working better than Putin's master plan, wouldn't you say?
A fellow moderate I see.
>*send all that*
>3 months later, nothing has changed
>”SEND F-22, SEND MINUTEMAN, SEND VIRGINIA-CLASS”
send in the dovakin