ITT: fictional weapons that would be impractical IRL Posted on May 7, 2023 by PrepHole Contributor ITT: fictional weapons that would be impractical IRL
75% of 40k Warhammer
This made me think about the necrons, they are the peak of brilliance and retardness, their troops are actually nearly impervious to small arms fire and their vehicles are all protected by quantum fields and can self-repair, their canopteks can literally create the equivalent to a grey goo scenario and they can teleport themselves in short distances with ease, yet they are still using early modern age tactics like the rest of the other factions aside from the T'au and their nobles are rife with politicking and backstabbing among their elites, like with certain modern nation they show a degree of technological capability can't compensate for idiotic social and cultural structures.
It's almost like they died a long time ago and just wanna stay dead in peace, not progress as a civilization.
The Necrons are hilarious. There's one scene where two of them are arguing and they just glare at each other for 5 years and then narration just continues like nothing happened.
Necrons are great because despite being so technology advanced it’s basically magic they move on a time scale so slowly that is comedic. Court proceedings can take place for decades non-stop meaning any form of collaboration is basically doomed before any other faction can capitalize on it
It's almost like newcrons are utterly retarded and were the worst thing to hit the lore until we got primaris marines.
This. I don't know why they changed them from something weird and unique and possibly the biggest threat to all other races, to fucking Tomb Lords in space. Necrons actually went backwards compared to the other factions, who started off as "dwarfs in space" and "elves in space" etc.
Greyhorde was boring as fuck, and as early as the RTS games the writers were desperately casting about for anything to plagiarize to distinguish them (uh-uhh-uhhhh they're the Borg!)
Warhammer did not need another monochrome homogeneous mindless horde army with no personality or agenda beyond shooting everything they saw.
yourdudes are fucking gay
I like Tomb Kings and you deserve to have your junk slapped
Nah, it really depends on the Dynasty, Maynarkh was absolutely badass in how they played the oldcrons to the T, in fact they were even more deadly than third edition oldcrons as they annihiled an entire SM marine chapter and their homeworld and most of an Imperial sector in 100 days to the point the Imperium had to declare a general retreat and declare damnatio memoria to how horrible things went for them.
>newcrons is shit
>having this shit of opinion
lasguns, the apparent king of practicality, would also be kind of shit because thermal has a really high energy input required for damage compared to kinetic
lasgun batteries are pure techno magic though, you can recharge them by putting them in sunlight or over fire, so energy supply is not an issue
yeah, but if you could, wouldn't you rather put your one megajoule (or whatever) into a laser that has the effect of a .50 cal round, or five GAU-8 rounds? lasers are simply not energy efficient.
They are from a logistics standpoint. And they work well enough that it's not worth retooling several hundreds of planets worth of factories to something better, that they don't even really have.
A lasgun in lore is a cheap and simple weapon to both make and upkeep in every sense of the word. The perfect thing to arm your expendable masses with, who statistically won't survive all that long anyways against targets that would call for larger ordinance, and are plenty enough for most situations when combined with the other more specialized weapons any formation would have access to.
There's no way a campfire can provide adequate energy to recharge a laser battery. If it were to work that way the campfire is simply encouraging the battery's self-recharge which must be some nuclear or other mechanism, in which case it isn't a simple battery it is a nuclear battery connected with a capacitor.
There's no way you even did physics or chem in high school. A campfire is probably a kilowatt or so, absolute bare minimum. A lasgun shot is 19,000 joules and a magazine is 40 shots, so a campfire emits enough energy to charge a lasgun mag in 6 minutes.
The problem isn't energy, it's work
>A lasgun shot is 19,000 joules and a magazine is 40 shots, so a campfire emits enough energy to charge a lasgun mag in 6 minutes.
Does the Campfire disappear when he puts the mag in hahahahaha
Fucking spacebattlers, noguns are so pathetic.
>The problem isn't energy, it's work
>huurrrrr but y the fyr not go out then? checkm8 atheist
Everyone gets it, you didn't graduate high school. What the fuck do you think emits means, and what relevance do you think it has to do with energy vs ability to do work?
Post gun lol
>A lasgun shot is 19,000 joules and a magazine is 40 shots,
You're not doing anything with a 19kj laser. Won't even burn paper. It takes a 10kW laser over ten seconds to damage a foam and plastic drone.
The guy you're fighting with is a fag, but you're wrong about laser power. Double digit Watt lasers will ignite most things almost instantly, and are a blinding risk for everyone within a mile.
A laser that delivered 20KJ in a second or less, provided it was on a reasonably small area, would at the very least ignite almost any fabric, hair, etc, and create rather horrible burns in tissue. Blinding would be the worst problem, a laser that powerful can permanently blind at great distance, even reflecting off of materials we don't normally consider reflective, like concrete.
>laser that delivered 20KJ in a second or less, provided it was on a reasonably small area, would at the very least ignite almost any fabric, hair, etc, and create rather horrible burns in tissue. Blinding would be the worst problem,
Bruh. A laser that delivered 19kj in 0.3s to a 5mm circle would defeat 33mm of perpendicular tungsten. At 20mm beam size it would do 0.6 (15, 2.5), (10,7.5).
With a 2cm lens an 800nm (near IR) laser can do that at 100m if the beam is diffraction limited (M^2=1). At a blue 460nm current flea market chinesium laser beam quality (~1.7) is sufficient. A 13.5nm EUV laser (like is currently used for CPU manufacturing) could produce a 150 μm point with worse lenses than we currently bother to make and would be in the realms of slicing tanks in half.
Reflectance and obliquity tend not to be big problems for energy absorbance as you go past blue, for eg tungsten goes to less than 2% absorbance for wavelengths under 380nm or so. Partial target transparency and armor diffraction are also largely positives at these kind of energies.
Basically we just make shit lasers right now. High energy lasers have god awful beam quality, orders of magnitude worse than chineseum pen lasers, while emitters and optics for high energy wavelengths (DUV, EUV) are at the cutting edge. Finally, our contemporary military aspirations for laser weapons are insane compared to carving armor at infantry distances - they're doing things like shooting boost phase missiles at 1000km or mortars and boats at kilometers away. AN/SEQ-3 is only a 30kw (ie 1kj/s) laser in near IR and it disables boats kilometers away easily with short pulses.
*AN/SEQ-3 is 30kj/s. I'm tired 🙁
not to mention permanent retina damage to both you and to fucking everyone who can see it.
IIRC the main advantage of lasguns are , on top of ease of use and maintenance (no moving parts, no recoil) that an entire devision firing in unison can tackle heavy targets like melting tanks and walkers. Its a weapon that banks on the fact that the Imperial Guard solves problems by throwing bodies at it.
Don't forget the 99 % reduction in ammo logistics. Just have to send a packet of spare "mags" every now and the with the regular medical, food, spareparts etc. deliveries.
>no moving parts
moving parts doesn't necessarily make something more reliable
example: my chinesium floodlight i bought that failed to even turn on fuck you amazon
Considering that Imperial technology and Techpriests follow a rigid design of copy-paste based on defective STC it's kind of understandable. Humanity peaked around the Dark-Age of Technology which ended in Skynet situation for humanity with humans coming off as the winners apparently due to psychics which robots had none of. It's been said that if the Imperium ever found a fully intact STC they would dominate the galaxy, but this also takes a grimdark turn as it was implied that the emperor ordered the destruction of Any found intact STC during the Great Crusade as these were essentially AI's being able to design and build whatever the user needed using the most practical recorces and designs available. The God Emperor essentially didn't want to risk AI Galactic War 2 or that humanity would once again become dependant on machines and technology for their survival.
I have a much more palatable view on the Mechanicus now that I've basically characterized them as a caste of engineers that are having to try and piece together technology from the scraps of their scientist-caste's notes spread around the galaxy. As an engineer myself, I can absolutely believe that data being treated with mysticism after several generations, even in what you and I consider professional environments.
The weapons are, unfortunately, still shit, because their scientists were all insane. Titans are cool, but come on. Nonsense like that almost justifies things like the Shadowsword.
When you're society is so fucked that you look back to your distant ancestors for technological guidance but are also taught to think of them as spiritually deficient and weak due to their technological hubris, it's no wonder why they call AI's "Abominable Intelligence" and theoretical physics is labeled "Technological Pandemonium". Obscure technology becomes magic, just in this case it's backwards.
This literally already happens with legacy information systems and the archaeocode written in the 90s by some hypercompetent autist who left no documentation so everyone just copy pastes the things that work
It gets worse. As it turns out many, or possibly all, of the Mechanicus' biggest starships have intact STCs. They were standard issue on ships and protection from just the kind of information purge like the Emperor ordered. But like always, the Mechanicus are so wrapped up in mechanical spirituality that they don't know how to communicate with a ship's AI to read the thing.
If your gun jams, you try to fix it. If your gun jams in 40k you might end up wiping out your squad.
You mean 100% of WH 40K
Irl spacemarines get killed by a denel ntw 50 ezlee.
Those Titans and megatitans shut would easily get taekn out by a squadron of b-52's or tu-95's
>Irl spacemarines get killed by a denel ntw 50 ezlee.
No.Even bolter rounds have trouble going through power armor.And space marines have surived the blasts from nuclear weapons.
>Those Titans and megatitans shut would easily get taken out by a squadron of b-52's or tu-95's
Only if they use tactical nukes otherwise the titan void shields would just absorb the blasts,they also have their own AA.In the fluff they are also escorted by planes and entire armies .
>No.Even bolter rounds have trouble going through power armor.And space marines have surived the blasts from nuclear weapons.
Plenty of examples of SM going down to Heavy Stubbers. Which are literally just 20th century heavy machine guns.
but muh machine spirit
muh dark age tech
90% of the wh40k lore is written by sub 100 iq brainlets, and the remaining 10% does not give a shit about the specs of fantasy weapons
>25% of 40k is viable
And thats why we love it
Go jerk off to metal tyranids somewhere else
kek, stupendously based
It's funny how 40k fanboys never argue about whether it's space-kph, but insist on how it must be space-conventional steel.
As with all space fantasy/far out sci-fi, the more you try to explain everything the worse and worse it becomes.
It's almost as if Imperium is an unsalvageable shithole or something
Nah, its worse - GW are British
Yea, its stupid. Tell me what good is a stock if your cybernetically enhanced, power armor clad arm can absorb the force of most weapons fired? All it does is get in the way the pauldron.
But you sure you want to argue about that bullpup design being a fantasy only a no guns could think of?
That guy larping a Soviet looks a bit silly screaming about British designing such a monstrosity.
There's no point in making it a bullpup in the first place if you don't need a stock. Dumbass.
You can get longer barrel for shorter overall length, even without the stock, obviously not in that layout, the one below the space flee however does.
But that was unrelated to the first point.
I am asking about the actual design, the one being explained in A, B and C. Do you think its a pure no guns fantasy?
Err, you do realize that all the images of bolters apart from the one apart from the top left are obviously the ones made by posters?
If you do what the fuck are you even asking?
A, B and C have nothing in common with each other and are not explanations.
A, B and C are all identical to the picture in the left.
C is slightly modified now that i look at it, but A and B are definitely identical and showing what they believe are how it could work.
The question still stands, as C is perhaps a more reasonable interpretation of the original.
Do you believe such a bullpup design could only come from a no guns artist?
>B are definitely identical and showing what they believe are how it could work.
There's a fucking great big yellow line saying that the ammo has to move through air, are you stoned right now?
Are you familiar with the Soviet gun designer Korobov is my point
Posters there are clearly taking issue with the unnecessarily convoluted path the bullet has to take and the location and size of the "ejection port". That it should had been drawn like C would had been the point. Korobov's weird designs have nothing to do with it other than a superficial resemblance to the design. Korobov's protoypes were already very well known back then, I can't imagine anybody taking issues based on an ignorance of his designs.
Anything like OP’s pic. Future of warfare is personal power suits like in starship troopers
Powered suits will never be big because it's much easier, and much better, to make a robot instead. The robot isn't constrained by the squishy human inside it so it can be faster and stronger and there's no human life at risk.
But yeah, the whole giant tank land battleship thing is pure fiction.
Eventually exoskeletons will end up in service with rear line troops.
And soon after someone will figure out how to use them on the frontline.
>And soon after someone will figure out how to use them on the frontline.
Figuring out how to use them on the front line isn't a problem. It's just a mind-numbingly dumb decision to build powered exos when you can build robots instead. And that's a crying shame because robots are nowhere near as cool as suits.
>when you can build robots instead
Do you even know what it takes to "build" a robot?
By the time you have fitted all the servos and actuators needed for a lifter suit you have created a robot, just without a control unit
>just without a control unit
This is not true. You have created a robot with very intense and unique ergonomic, environmental, and I/O requirements for its control unit. It's much more difficult than creating a robot. But it's a much better control unit.
Its almost as if the control unit with sensors, pathfinding, adaptability to environment and decision making is the hard part.
So back to my original post, as long as there will be infantry, and the moment exoskeletons are introduced, we will get power armor infantry.
They might not be tip of the spear, but if giving a trooper an exoskeleton increases their perceived combat lethality, they will have to get into those god damn suits.
Like I said.
>It's much more difficult than creating a robot.
>But it's a much better control unit.
Just building a dumb robotic shell that can mimic human anthropology? Not a problem. Getting that to walk? Boston Dynamics was showing off backflips years ago. Just "building" the robot isn't the problem. The problem is controlling and powering it, and human beings offer a compelling argument for being a preferred control solution for several reasons.
A robot without control and power is not a robot.
a pneumatic cylinder hooked up to a PLC is not a robot.
>Designing a car is easy, you just weld a bunch of metal sheets together and you have the shell. Now the Engine and suspension, that's the real problem
You also completely overlook the impact that random real world environment has on an autonomous robotic system by citing Boston Dynamics as an example.
>You also completely overlook the impact that random real world environment has on an autonomous robotic system by citing Boston Dynamics as an example
You misunderstand the point. The whole reason I cite Boston Dynamics is to show off what the physical, mechanical structure can be made to do. Just the stupid robotic puppet, with someone else feeding it instructions and running it almost as dumb as possible.
And a robot CAN be stupid. A robot is just a machine that can perform some task automatically. If it can effectively react on the fly without input, awesome, but that's by no means a requirement. That's linguistic drift and popular culture expectations trying to muddy a technical term. I stand by my statement. The robot is easy, but the computing is hard, so you stick a human control unit in there, so now it's a little harder than just building a robot.
>Its almost as if the control unit with sensors, pathfinding, adaptability to environment and decision making is the hard part.
This was the exact argument that was made for why drones would never be viable.- AI and controls have been, and for the forceable future will continue to be the fastest maturing field - Radically exceeding power generation technology
>So back to my original post, as long as there will be infantry, and the moment exoskeletons are introduced, we will get power armor infantry.
Good luck convincing anyone to consider Infantry literally tethered to vehicles - Because that is the only way to have a suit that is going to have more than a few hours of combat endurance for the forseeable future, and by the time that exists the AI control aspect will already be a matured technology
suits in the back line will be used in the back line to allow a tethered generator to run several logistics suits to ensure artillery batteries aren't exhausting crews causing reduction in capability and to allow engineer vehicles to have automation tethered, meaning larger tools usable without again exhausting the engineer crews
>They might not be tip of the spear, but if giving a trooper an exoskeleton increases their perceived combat lethality, they will have to get into those god damn suits.
What percieved combat lethality is there in reducing infantry's mobility - both in terms of reducing their speed and flexibility in not being able to clear buildings with doorways sized for humans, increasing their target profile, tying them physically to support vehicles
>t. has never built a robot in his life
Dumbest and most half-baked post I've seen in a while. Why even make a post on a field that is so clearly completely beyond you?
>Verification not required.
This is so badass, yet so stupid. Love the jet pterodactyl in the background too
It's the Tarkus album
Which Judas Priest album is this again?
It's Tarkus from Emerson, Lake and Palmer.
Sure so long as you have smaller than a person supercomputers that can autonomously and accurately translate its sensor readings into a practical dataset and then infer the optimal action from that. And that you have either miniaturized rugged power generation or a huge leap in battery technology to power all of that including the actual suit itself and not only the computer, so you don't run out of juice in just a couple of days. A reminder that the majority of our brains are dedicated to just that, intaking sensor data and then translating that into practical effects via the body's functions.
I'll grant you that this will most likely be both possible, practical and economically reasonable at some point. But powered suits will have been a real thing for decades at that point.
At the very least you are going to need people at some point in the line, if not at the direct front. And those people will have a need for personal protection. So even if you have combat robots for the front, you'll still need suits for people as well so they don't get instagibbed.
>Sure so long as you have smaller than a person supercomputers
>Minituarized power generation
Those problems are even worse for an armored suit as opposed to a robot because an armored suit has far more constraints regarding size and placement of components, protecting the wearer from heat/radiation/exhaust, etc.
> A reminder that the majority of our brains are dedicated to just that, intaking sensor data
Yes, it would be easiest if these robots were remote-controlled by human operators, sort of like VR. That's far less of a technical challenge than making the robot autonomous with AI.
I do agree that there may be some niche uses for them for people near the front but I think that will be the exception rather than the rule, but I don't think you're going to see mecha suit infantry duking it out, if anything it's going to be robots/drones/droids, be they remote-controlled or autonomous, duking it out.
I'm not sure you realize just how much computing power, both in terms of energy and general size it requires to do what you're saying.
I'll agree that for shorter operations remote controlled droids could absolutely see a use, but that would be much more specialized, like for harsh cqc as a point man and so on.
For replacing soldier fully, absolutely not. A soldiers main job is to occupy and hold ground, that requires a high level of autonomy and the potential to function without support.
I see it as much more likely that we'll see bioengineered monstrosities to serve as frontline troops than full on robots.
>I'm not sure you realize just how much computing power, both in terms of energy and general size it requires to do what you're saying.
I'm an engineer, I realize it's very high. But it's not like making an armored suit instead helps any. It's all the same computing challenges, only now compounded by the fact that a human being is occupying prime real estate inside the machine where it would be really nice to put other things instead.
> A soldiers main job is to occupy and hold ground,
That's actually ideally suited to a robot. If there's nothing going on it can just sit there, perhaps using its sensors to gather intel, using minimal energy. It doesn't get bored, it doesn't require food or bathroom breaks. It can then activate as necessary when it needs to do something.
Now I do agree with you 100% that robots/drones will never fully replace soldiers, there are just too many things that need to be done which aren't fighting. But I think if we're comparing robot vs. power suit the robot wins in most cases. Not only for technical reasons, but also because there's no life on the line which is a major issue these days when the media hypes up even tiny losses.
i just fucking love them bros.
>reminder that titanfall is a toyota wars game because titans are heavily upgraded civilian tools
Mechs make more sense as utility vehicles more than combat ones. Just take a spider excavator, mix it with some high end processing power, and let it marinade for a century or so and you might get something damn close to a mech.
Which is pretty much how titans happened.
Unless the planet you're invading is very very flat these just seemed like they'd be impossible to manoeuvre
Even on a flat planet they would just sink into the ground
Imperial titans are basically just walking weapons batteries. They are complete shit in close melee combat but their usefullness comes from being able to shit out entire artillery battalions worth of firepower on the move.
They also have all kinds of inbuilt stabilisers and anti-grav fields that enable them to just walk everywhere.
Not as much as you would think as they are fitted with antigrav units to mitigate a lot of the weight and avoid the interial coupling of large missile barrage impacts knocking them down
Please tell me where is that from, i need to read that
This argument i never understand. You understand knees exist, right? A bipedal platform with knees capable of simply pulling up from an unstable surface would ignore 90% of the issues with ground pressure assuming it has good stablizers.
You know. Kinda like humans do
They were developed for fighting on the flat plains of Mars, so yes.
All of them? If they were practical IRL they would already exist.
>rhombus track layout
>no secondary weaponry for clearing infantry
I don't care, I love this thing. Rhombus tracks are hot.
Also the Indiana Jones tank. Impractical but I love it.
Huge Wh40K vibe
Thats just a (replica of) a Mark VIII Tank with a tower slapped on top. =)
Is it really? Its just a WW1 tank but with a turret. Maybe a bit outdated in the year the movie takes place but still perfectly functional.
Don't shit talk my favourite AI. He's far superior to an EVA unit in every metric, especially the kill all humans one.
I love the doofy tanks in Gundam.
how does this work
do you just aim at the center point between the barrels, or do you aim with and fire one barrel at a time.
you get the crosshair on the targeting computer to line up and then when the TC says fire you pull the trigger, then when he says fire again you pull the other trigger
then you cry at the manual loaders both having to lug shells around the inside of the turret while the enemy mech beams you with a 120mm autocannon
Ironic how Gundam has more practical tanks than those found in most other sci-fi settings, but still impractical for IRL warfare.
the scorpion isn't too bad. it makes more sense when you take into account that the UNSC's entire doctrine is based on air assault so pretty much every vehicle needs to be transportable via pelican
Only offsite fags complain about the scorpion, which sci fi forum shithole are you from?
>turret flies back under its own power for a strafing run
Legitimately how it works in the show and it's hilarious
I'm not even sure what this was supposed to accomplish.
It says right there on the image.
It's something that would have benefited British or French Empires more than the Soviet Union
How would its support fleet keep up though?
For Soviets? It wouldn't. Soviet blue water naval ambition was limited to the White Sea, where it was only practical to sneak out submarines, or the Pacific, where it was up against the USN
For Colonial Empires?
They would resupply at the respective colonies they zoomed over to.
You could also, I don't know, make specific supply ships to keep up or rendezvous mid ocean.
Okay, we disagree on what a robot is, which is basically a daily occurrence in the field.
You say robot is the mechanical puppet waiting for the master,
I say a robot is the whole system from mechanics to the computer control.
When you read that I said "build" the robot, you though I meant the mechanics, by "build" I meant
>Sensor data analyzing
>Path finding and Navigation
All of those things are integral to making an autonomous robot that can replace a soldier on the front line.
It should be
Can't forget the wires and motors
I'm willing to accept a use of robot as a shorthand for all the associated non-mechanical subystems, that's fair.
That high speed carrier concept that resupplies at its destination or staged underway replenishment might start to sound suHispaniciously reasonable if the cutting edge of stealth aircraft becomes expensive even for the United States. You can't effectively launch them ballistically or from space, and airlifting imposes much stricter cargo limitations while making readiness more difficult. Small, high speed sea-skimming carrier might be justified. You don't even have to worry about it outrunning its submarine cover, because until supercavitating torpedoes become more common any submarine attacks would have to be via cruise missile. Those cruise missiles would then be vulnerable to the same heavy air defense network any carrier brings with it.
'Flying' is a bit misleading, it was more supposed to glide over the water. The point was to be an ungodly fast ship, that could force project air power anywhere on earth on short notice.
>anywhere on Earth on short notice that doesn't require flying over a sea state higher than sea state 3 (1.2m waves)
I wonder if we'll see the US military use SpaceX stuff to do this with rockets in our lifetime.
We won't. SpaceX is a scam.
Pretty much any airship from the FF series. Jesus Christ, if there was any sort of Gate situation happening on earth with a some FF planet I would grow rock hard as AA reservist in the FDF. These things are just begging to eat hundreds of Flak rounds and missiles.
I haven't played it in a while but wasn't a major plot point in FF4 that they were unstoppable? Like just a squad of them were enough to conquer entire kingdoms.
That's only because the technological level of most FF settings are a mish-mash between traditional and techno fantasy where the common soldier fights with iwith melee weapons decked out in plate mail. It would be an entirely different ball game against a hard-science society where they're going up against an opponent that has no practical experience with magic or mythic beings outside of legend. Imagine a war between FFXII Arkadia and Ace Combats Belka. You get the idea and the outcome of such a war.
I want it so fucking bad but still
Borderlands has some really cool gun designs. I’m partial to Jakobs and Vladoff and Dahl. They have some basic realistic value while still being whacky.
My favorite BL guns are the Jakobs gatlin' rifles, the bandit "rokets!" rifles, the torgue revolvers and the splatguns. I'd commit genocide to get a gun that combines the rokets! with the Hyperion splatgun shots as a switchable fire mode. Maybe with the gatlin' crank.
The writing rapidly grows fucking atrocious for the base 3 games but the gameplay legit improves as the series goes on.
Bolos are based but I always found this design where they've got a great big Hat pretty dumb looking.
Unfortunately there seems to be a lack of cold-war era illustrations of kinetic bombardment satellites but they're fucking cool
How do you reload these things?
What's current update of or real life laser weaponry?
Just like how we we supplying ISS I guess, we send spacecraft with supply dock
Yeah I think it's because Stonehenge Rail Gun isn't that ridiculously impractical. I think we can UN build it on Turkey or Nevada (just like Ace Combat Infinity) if we facing life threatening meteor impact. I mean USA still developing rail gun isn't
>USA still developing rail gun isn't
iirc massive barrel wear even after just a few shots basically stopped that plan for now. Still for Asteroids and the like it could certainly make sense. Basically a question if the loss from atmospherical interference is lesser than whatever other stuff we could come up with. With all the infrastructure being on Earth it's a pretty compelling design since if you have enough time you could even just build a coal plant to power it right next to the site.
Given enough time you could just hook it straight up to a bunch of nuclear reactors, really.
If there's a fuckoff dinosaur-grade meteor money really stops being an issue.
The fucking wobble. Every time I see it I wonder why the fuck nobody considered not pointing the muzzle breaks at each other.
>What's current update of or real life laser weaponry?
Israel has been using the Iron Beam against drones, mortars and smaller rockets for some time now.
I can imagine the same system or a similar ones, like mobile, is being developed at least in the US for drone defence if nothing else.
With big use of drones in Russia-Ukraine war, It's necessary to develop portable anti-drone weaponry. I gotta read those Israel Iron Beam
Now everybody says mechs are impractical, but some of the naval assets in battletech are very impressive and overlooked. And equally impractical what with things like thrust based gravity
>At least try to do semi realistic space travel
>Nerds still call your stuff impractical
That's why going full Treasure Planet is the only way
What's with all the space balls and eggs?
They're meant for atmospheric entry and exit
Wouldn't a more aerodynamic/plane shaped hull make it easier to do that then?
Arguably. But spheroid ships are not really so much for cruising through atmosphere (although they can do that). They spend the vast majority of their flight hours in space and most of their takeoffs and landings are going to be going to/from space.
Standard spheroid landing procedure basically boils down to:
>calculate landing position and vector
>burn in at ~1g of acceleration
>once you're close enough to the planet, pivot the craft around and start using your thruster as a brake
>adjust this plan depending on exactly how desperate you are; approaches can be made 'safely' up to about 3gs but this will probably make everyone on board sick
Pic related, a Union making a contested landing.
That said, Battletech is a hard-ish mecha setting still running on conceits thought up by some weaboos in the 80s. It's very much it's own kind of thing and you shouldn't take it too seriously.
>Battletech is a hard-ish mecha setting
Never underestimate the level of delusion fanboys will sink to.
The bar is very low. Gundam is usually considered Real Robot and it's got back flipping lightsaber duels in space. There are elements of the setting that are very grounded and then there's giant robot honor duels. If a mecha was built in real life it would probably resemble an Urban Mech or something like it.
Unironically in terms of Gundam I think the Ball is pretty close to what a one-man space combat vehicle would look like in real life.
Yeah, fair. I meant they tried to stick to relatively grounded space travel. They ignore all kinds of shit but by most sci-fi standards they're fairly restrained because Battletech wants to act like a harder setting than it is.
>FTL exists but it's kind of an asspain and you will spend a month and a half to hop two systems
>just appearing in a system is a huge crapshoot so you only hop to the north or south poles of the system star so you don't accidentally appear inside a moon or something
>there are exceptions but you better know exactly what the hell you're doing
>intrasystem travel is all done at 1-3gs depending on how desparate you are and the longest wait while moving system-to-system is just spending time in transit from the planet to the jumpship
>if you're in desparate need of help and reinforcements show up at the jump point they may still be a week's travel out at a 3g burn and you have to hurry up and fucking wait
If you compare it to other mecha it's downright granite hard. If you take the mecha out of the equation it's still pretty restrained outside of the tabletop distances being the same as lore engagement distances.
>outside of the tabletop distances being the same as lore engagement distances.
This wasn't a thing in the beginning and I don't know when it started. The first novels even had lasers invisible to the naked eye and cameras instead of windows on canopies.
>The first novels even had lasers invisible to the naked eye and cameras instead of windows on canopies.
Technically they had both. Decision at Thunder Rift notes that exceptionally old mechs like the Shadowhawk use transparent armor panel canopies just due to the sheer age of the design (and because it's based on the Dougram, which had a canopied cockpit).
Later and current books actually switched to both. A canopy for your immediate forward view in case your sensors get shot off, and then sensors around the mech feed into a main view screen which gives you 360 degrees of vision squashed into a 160 degree arc. The screen can swap between visible light, IR, thermal, or magnetic anomaly scanning. I think in the Dark Age there was an R&D project focusing on creating full VR environments for pilots using CT mounted cockpits, but the thing got shelved because the guy managing everything had his neural interface pet project canned and he quit in a huff.
Clanner Enhanced Imaging cockpits are sometimes described as being the classic 'floating seat with a 360 degree view'.
Note that the EI cockpit and EI implants are two different halves to the same tech, but someone without EI implants can still make use of the EI cockpit. Having the implants (or their Word of Blake counterparts, (B)VDNI) just lets you control your mech with your mind directly, and also have sensor data and shit sent directly to your brain.
It's hardish compared to the rest of mechdom, yes.
It is internally consistent and has systems and logistics so you can run a repair garage and order parts from FedEx, or scrounge your own from salvage and even machine parts from basic stock.
>No my summer 'mech where you balance repairs, upgrades and maintenance with wrecking your 'mech on mercenary contracts
Still, who ball and egg shaped spaceships? Hard sci-fi isn't really my thing but a gargantuan metal orb doesn't seem that "hard" to me
Most efficient armor scheme for a given mass, and dropships are often shot at while landing. Battletech armor is NERA that shatters/melts/sloughs off when hit to prevent penetration of nearly anything you can hit it with, there are a few weapons that will pen the armor outright though.
Do any of the armor-piercers (other than closing to melee and relying on knockdown to fuck up the enemy pilot) actually work well, though?
AP autocannon rounds are hot garbage on the small end and impractically heavy on the higher end, and the loss in damage is pretty massive there too.
A sphere has the most internal volume for the least material. Plus it gives battletech a rather unique spacecraft look
>Battletech is a hard-ish mecha
No, it's just less aniboo, more arms industry
they also fucked up the crew complements of the dropships
Really? IIRC a union has ~40 guys as the crew and a leopard ~10-20, how's that unreasonable?
I just checked and I was incorrect. A union has 14 crew and a leopard has 9. Still believable, I don't think it would take a team of 10 guys to just pilot a single ship
It probably doesn't take 14 people to pilot it but remember that travel between systems can take months. It's plausible that the extra crew are there make sure you don't have to turn around and go home if anything goes wrong in the time it takes to get to your target.
This is before we get into the armament on the dropship, and supporting/maintaining the mechs themselves.
Some of those guys are probably technical personnel. Remember, you're riding around on a massive fusion rocket. Best to cross your Ts and such with that kind of power.
You need bodies to do maintenance and repairs. That's a lot of tons of dropship with fusion rockets and gigantic landing gear, multi-ton computers and plenty more than can go wrong. You will also need a loadmaster and assistants to make sure the cargo is properly restrained, especially when it is a hot extraction and the mech lance merely stumbled on board seconds before takeoff. This isn't an aircraft where all the maintenance crew is at a safe airfield.
Heck of a shotgun
Fantasy scythes are the most obvious contender
I always just assumed the grim reaper style scythe was symbolic of harvesting lives, not something he actually used. Kind of like britbong royal scepters not being used to bonk people on the head, but rather a symbol of power
>Kind of like britbong royal scepters not being used to bonk people on the head
I mean it could be
Charles still has time to become the best remembered british king.
People complain about scythes way too much. Its peak HEMAfag midwittery
This stupid POS.
>minmatar techs decided that all their infantry arms should fit on the same frame
>pic related can be an SMG, an assault rifle, a high powered anti material rifle, or a tiny minigun just by swapping a few parts out here and there
>autistic minmaxing of the powder mix means the conventional ammo is just as effective as dark matter railguns, plasma-based firearms, and lasers
>the sight knows to flip up when you shoulder/raise it
I love rust so much it's unreal.
Honorable mentions to the rocket pistol from the same faction, which fires tiny rockets strong enough to total a humvee.
I truly, honestly, thought that I was the only one that ever played this game.
Surprised no one mentioned this yet. I can only imagine how much power you'd need to fully operate this, let alone the other practical issues It'd have.
It was originally built to shoot down asteroid fragments that would have threatened millions of lives otherwise (nevermind that Ulysses caused massive devastation anyway), so logistical and monetary costs weren't an issue. It was really only weaponized because it already existed
The bolter, one of the most iconic weapons in 40k, is basically a grenade launcher/assault rifle. In theory it sounds great, until you realize you have to be a 7ft tall gigabro that wouldn’t shatter every bone in your arm from pulling the trigger. Even the pistol version is dumb
to be fair downsized version do exist its just they are mostly reserved for the giga elite normal human forces such as scions, sisters, inquisitors, and commissars
It having high recoil is fucking retarded especially considering how much it fucking weighs.
2 bores don't break people's bones. 20mm cannons don't break people's bones. .950 doesn't break people's bones. But we're supposed to believe that the SMALLER of two propellant charges on the bolter creates so much free recoil it's impossible to fire, while simultaneously weighing, depending on the author, as much as a hundred pounds or more.
Ceramite armor has been cracked and even penned by Astartes shotguns and heavy stubbers, for fucks sake.
Fiddy cal works on everything
Now you're comparing modern gunpowder to whatever the hell is used as a propellant 40k.
Blame GW for giving stats for various stubbers that made them equal to or inferior to the modern weapons they look like.
Yeah GW stats are retarded in a lot circumstances, but I personally default that a unreliable narrator and mistranslated measurements.
Honestly my favourite part of 40k is exactly that vagueness in everything. We don't know everything, there are massive information gaps both chronologically and geographically and the person who in universe wrote this could be religious fanatic or have a laundry list of reasons why they're not exactly the most objective and grounded narrator. It's like reading ancient historians and mythology.
Basically it gives me a neat way to handwave everything into exactly the shape I wish while still not breaking canon.
You default to absurd "big numbers" why, exactly? What is it about the big number that makes the Space Marine gun better to you?
I mean it more like if they say a tank has 300 RHA armour or the like, that RHA means a completely different thing to them. Or it could be reasonably have been subtracted from say 300 000 to 300, so the numbers are more practically usable. That sort of stuff.
The benefits of having a post apocalyptic, religiously fanatical society. You don't need to presume that people or more precisely that the systems is entirely logical.
And I hate precise powerleveling in fiction so this helps to deter that.
Why does it have to be a mistake? Why is it ONLY quotes that make 40k "weaker" that are EVER called a mistake?
In fifteen years I've never heard a 40k fan say "hypersonic" or "vaporized" was an exaggeration or those terms changed meaning in 40 thousand years, or "cracked the continent" was a poetic turn of phrase. But present hard numbers from imperial armor and suddenly it's all "unreliable narrators" and "we just don't know what they meant".
Because of how the universe is set up it CAN be a mistake, so I let it be one. That's the big difference, it can be whatever you want to make of it, within reason.
You could just as well say that this design is completely retarded and that could be right. That particular model could have been complete shit and lead to the deaths of those who tried to use them. The Imperial machinery is vast enough that every possibility exists within it.
But for the universe as a whole to make sense you have to make certain concession and not take everything literally. And that's where the beauty of it comes, at least to me, is that you absolutely can make to concessions.
I am telling you I've done this song and dance a thousand times, and I've only ever seen it applied to stats or descriptions or whatever that make 40k weaker, NEVER stronger. Everything that makes a "bigger number" is accepted, everything that makes a "smaller number" is "well we just don't know, maybe its not quite accurate, it's all open to interpretation"
What a nonsense piece of reasoning. RHA is a set thing. It'll be like as if someone said a lasgun was 50 joules and you claimed "nooo they meant space-joules". The dudes who wrote Games Workshop data were basically WW2 tank buffs, and this translated to 350mm RHA being an impressive amount of armor in their heads, simple as that.
Yeah that's the irl/meta reason for it. But you're ludicrous if you're saying that standards and meanings can't change in some 3800 years + a handful of apocalyptic scenarios mixed in.
I'm pretty sure the mechanicus has some basic physics formulas they use as sacred texts and the like.
So you're admitting it's just cope now? There's a point where you should just throw up your hands and admit the authors were stupid, not double down and join in the stupidity by pretending that akshully they meant space-RHA, honest.
Yeah the authors are stupid, that's what I meant by unreliable narrators.
The larger canon that makes 40K as a whole is not defined by a single author or a single statement. And the purposeful ambiguity and vagueness of of the setting gives me the ability to completely disagree or dismiss anything said while still keeping in with the premise.
Yeah I know a fair bunch of 40K fans can be downright insufferable but I'm just sharing my interpretation of 40K ( and the fact that it even allows for such is what makes me love it)
Generally speaking I don't really care about the specific measurements in fictions. More how they generally stack up against their contemporaries and what kind of impact they'll have in universe. That's particularly why I think it's hard to go downwards with the Imperium since it doesn't exist in a vaccuum. For them to have a decent chance against the stuff they're facing it just makes more sense to round up than down in essence.
And also why comparing 40K seriously to any other setting is kind of a meme since the stats are really just "very big".
Doesn't mean what you think it means. It's means the narrator is deliberately written to be unreliable, not that you can play "death of the author" and pick and choose what you want. We can collectively agree that GW fluff is nonsense and the concept of canon is fleeting at best, but deciding to put your own personal spin on things is just head canon and fanboyism. Deal with it.
Eh it might be head canon but that is my honest view of it.
>narrator is deliberately written to be unreliable
And my viewpoint, borne from reading 40K lore, is that the whole setting is deliberately set up to be vague and unreliable. Sure there are some pretty strong points that help tie things together but a lot is left to interpretation. Kind of like that weird Russian conspiracy theory about history not being real and just anglosaxon propaganda, can't seem to find it now unfortunately.
Cool blog bro, no one cares about your head canon.
You cared enough to respond, I appreciate it.
I care about it, besides the reason why people don’t want to make shit sound “weaker” is 40k is pretty much the rule of cool. You want the setting to be badass so you make it badass. Doesn’t really translate to table top but I don’t play that so I don’t really care.
If BIGGER NUMBER GUN meant more badass everyone would hate Rambo.
It's an attitude only online VS Battle Forum guys have. Oh if photon torpedoes are 1 megaton they're fifty times less cool than if they are 50 megaton. If star wars has a laser my phaser has to be bigger or else star trek is bad now.
Og guy here, I specifically don't care about that stuff. Coming back to the original 300 RHA example, it's more about what to do with obviously faulty info, since if said tank legitimately had 300 RHA of armour and functioned as it did, it would call into question practically everything about the setting to explain how it's holding up against said attacks.
Much simpler to just say that the 300 RHA number is bullshit and then come up with a reasonable explanation for that, since 40K allows for it.
And expanding on the other guys post, why I think 40K works so well in a rule of cool way is that there is at least some plausible reasoning behind everything, so if you do care about a specific thing or feature, you can pursue it or defend it or whatever and you'll have some role basis for doing that.
Everything basically being techno magic makes it a lot easier to believe in all kinds of stuff than if it were just played of as contemporary logical advancements taken some few decades or even centuries into the future.
>it would call into question practically everything about the setting to explain how it's holding up against said attacks
I guess everything else has to be scaled down in your mind to accommodate.
Like I said I'll believe this routine the second I hear it used ONCE to lower the power and not raise it.
The problem is that if you lower one, you kind of have to lower everything for things to remain as they are.
>The problem is that if you lower one, you kind of have to lower everything for things to remain as they are.
This is just upward bias. Lower stats than 40k debatefags "like" are not one or two here or there, they're everywhere.
I'm really sure what you're trying to say. My point is that for 40K to internally make sense, you have to basically ignore or massive increase certain stats, and once again that is something you can do. If those stats functioned as they're stated, then everything in 40K would have to change to fit that. Going back the 300 RHA example once more, if that were truly the case, then what the hell is going on with everything from missiles, lasers, plasma, kinetic rounds, explosives, psychic or even just straight up biological strength not cutting through that that like butter.
Basically the official stats are complete nonsense in a lot of instances and for things to function as they are portrayed, then those must be changed.
High-tech is not the same as power. Plasma, lasers etc is just a buzzword. In-game and in-universe, you can have low strength plasma (and lasers!) as powerful as a lasgun, to high strength plasma that can burn an entire city. 40K was clearly envisioned to be a schizo tech level setting, with high tech juxtaposed with low tech, with the high tech not necessarily winning out or superior. Lasguns for example, were initially inferior to autoguns, with only logistics being their advantage. Tanks were deliberately anachronistic shit heaps of slabs of metal with plasma guns attached to them. Genetically engineered soldiers go to war with suits of powered armor and chainswords. Organic beings can tear apart tanks with pure strength despite basic sheet metal being proof against any such thing in real life. That is just the kind of setting it is - high tech yet ow powered on the tactical scale.
Well yeah but for matter to exist in a plasma state, it has to have a significant amount of energy in it for example. So it has a certain expectation of power behind it, regardless of what the stats say.
I agree with you mostly, but my main point was that the official stats are completely whack in several instances and make absolutely zero sense under any kind of scrutiny vs the reported impact. And that with how 40K is set up, you can just ignore those stats.
>Organic beings can tear apart tanks with pure strength despite basic sheet metal being proof against any such thing in real life.
An elephant stepping on top of most vehicles outside of MBTs would crush them. SM augments are actually pretty reasonable and stuff like the tyranids would absolutely wreck everything we could come up with irl. Biology basically has no limits on what you can accomplish with it. Hell just start infusing titanium and other metals or composite materials into the make up if need be. Beavers for instance have iron infused into their teeths and certain ants have zinc jaws.
>the tyranids would absolutely wreck everything we could come up with irl
Haha are you serious? The amount of force required to defeat even basic steel is enormous. How thin is a sheet of steel before you can punch through it? It's something so thin that you would need a micrometer to measure. A basic metal box on tracks can withstand a massive amount of anything flesh, in reality you would need a bio titan to step on a APC before we can approach anything like actual damage.
why are you comparing mammal myosin/actin muscle fibers with hyper-evolved extragalactical war machine ones?
Because even if the hyper-evolved extragalactical ones are several orders of magnitude better it's still nowhere good enough.
M8, even an actual real life mech made of metal and powered by electricity wouldn't be able penetrate steel plate without being ludicrously oversized, let alone an organic one essentially made out of water held together by macromolecules.
This is circular nonsense.
"the setting only makes sense if we ignore the weaker stats and only pay attention to the bigger stats because if we don't ignore the low end the high end doesn't make sense"
Yeah retard that's just choosing one over the other arbitrarily because it makes you feel special and "bigger number than other series."
The setting mostly exists outside those "stats". they're not the main point of things. They're just there as fluff and help compare stuff to each other and for gameplay reasons(in universe that is). A big problem here comes from the fact that 40K is spread across a wide variety of mediums from books to board games to vidya. So for example what makes sense from a balancing perspective for the games has no bearing on the books and whatever kind of story they want to convey.
Basically the stats don't really matter outside limited environmental like a board game battle so you can do a degree do whatever you want with them. What matters is the portrayal of effectiveness in practice.
Also I don't give a shit about this whole "40K vs every other series" because that's just an endless quagmire of nu-uhs.
You're honestly coming across as needlessly salty.
I'm not leveling a criticism at the setting, basically all sci fi is completely inconsistent. I'm leveling a criticism at the braindead retards swarming over the internet *obsessed* with trying to "argue up" 40k numbers everywhere they think people arent familiar with the contradictions. I'm tired of people responding to stats that bring the numbers down, and ONLY those stats, with "well unreliable narrator, uhh, in universe propaganda, uhhh we just dont know..." but treating every mention of something that "makes number bigger" as sacrosanct.
40k fan number-debaters are fags and hypocrites, and they've been at this tired routine for decades.
Well yeah, I get that but you've kinda brought that on yourself because the way 40K is set up, those kind of people are practically unbeatable since there is no concrete ground to trap them onto.
Once again, comparing any scifi settings to each other super seriously is just dumb imo.
>I'm leveling a criticism (...) with trying to "argue up" 40k numbers
>raves about 40k numbers
>"bigger number than other series."
40k is a post-apoc setting, where every faction (other than Tyranids and Chaos) has fallen from its glory days and is now armed with scraps and prayers. It isn't even a bigger number compared to itself, stagnation and overall superstitional retardation is a big point of it.
Also you are the one bringing up supposed comparisons between 40k and other series, I've literally never seen "can 40k beat X" posts here or on /tg/, only people like you which complain about it.
And no, nobody who knows 40k from anything other than reddit memes, would argue that for how big the universe it, numbers in can't back it up and make overally no sense. Its been like that forever, 1 million spacemarines total is a most famous example, people talk about improbably small numbers because they are. Thanks to the fact that GW are Bri`ish and can't into guns.
>Also you are the one bringing up supposed comparisons between 40k and other series, I've literally never seen "can 40k beat X" posts here or on /tg/, only people like you which complain about it.
Because I know you moron, your kind, this isn't my first day on the internet, I've heard all these obfuscating excuses before. 40k "fans" come here from time to time talking about Bolters killing tanks and "Lasgun is like a BMG" and other bullshit they think we haven't heard and then they shriek "unfair! unfair!" when you show them a stat they think you didn't know about that "makes the number go down".
Retreat back to your sci-fi forum.
My moron in christ, you are the only one in the thread bringing up "40k vs X" bullshit, you literally painted a picture to be mad at.
>Retreat back to your sci-fi forum
Comes to thread discussing scifi weaponry, is baffled and upset at people discussing scifi weaponry, what a lad.
>Comes to thread discussing scifi weaponry
>gays act like gays in a thread discussing sci fi weaponry
>Call them gays
>"lol you came to the gay thread tho"
>I hear it used ONCE to lower the power and not raise it.
Matt Ward era Ultramarines could be toned down with saying their tales might have been exaggerated for propaganda reasons.
Though even with that you have the meme explanation of blue being the Orks lucky colour, even if that's mostly tongue in cheek, it could once again work as a legitimate reason.
>Much simpler to just say that the 300 RHA number is bullshit
Why? 40k is an ignorant future dystopia of schizotech coasting on the past. Taking the cutting edge of the late cold war and defining it as the top shelf of 40k war tech is how it was created.
You now realize lasguns are a FAL (excuse me SLR) with a 200rnd mag.
Because of stuff like plasma, energy weapons and the overall amounts energy in various forms energy being thrown around.
It's like showing a wall stop a speeding truck head on, and then insisting that wall was made of plywood. If that was the case then it would call in question everything else and just make the same problem elsewhere a thousand times.
Wrong, you're just showing your bias. You're phrasing this like the "bad" examples are some strange outlier and the "strong" examples are consistent and normal.
It's like showing a wall being made out of plywood, showing men kick through it like plywood, showing people shoot through it, burn it, a tree falls and knocks it down, a woodpecker pokes a hole in it, etc, then having a different writer show it surviving a nuke, maybe he even shows it surviving a nuke five times in different books, and then fans ignoring the parts where it was shown to be normal plywood because they want more ammunition for a fight online where they're arguing that the wall is stronger than the walls in Star Wars (who's fans are doing the exact same thing).
Yeah you're just coming across as a salty bitch that got too involved in some flame war between 40K and whatever else it was compared to.
Not saying that your post doesn't hold a ring of truth. There's plenty of completely shit and contradictory fluff, but that's kind of the charm for me. It comes back to the whole "unreliable setting" thing. I view 40K as basically as a modern mythos so of course there's going to be all kinds of contradictions and the like that people can use to argue about. Kind of like real history or even religious writings. That's the main point I love about, that vagueness because any sci-fi universe has to be like that in order to be believable to me. Just compare our real world of just one planet and some 3000 years of written history. How little do really know about that even, how spotty and contradictory our understanding of things are and were. Just look into the various forms of dinosaurs we though have existed basically from just one random bone.
Now extrapolate that some 38 000 years into the future, with several apocalyptic periods and on a true galactic scale (which frankly I can't recall seeing anywhere else).
>Yeah you're just coming across as a salty bitch that got too involved in some flame war between 40K and whatever else it was compared to.
>There's plenty of completely shit and contradictory fluff, but that's kind of the charm for me. It comes back to the whole "unreliable setting" thing.
Like I said, the only time this logic comes out is when "big number" is threatened, never the reverse.
>Like I said, the only time this logic comes out is when "big number" is threatened, never the reverse.
Well no shit, the kind of people who care about that enough to argue about wouldn't self sabotage to that point since they absolutely can do the opposite.
And people like me who don't give a shit about these kinds of flame wars won't do that either since it would mean adding more chaos and confusion the actual setting.
Like goddamn dude learn to take a chill pill and not get so infatuated on childish "my dad is stronger!" type of games.
>Sure I'll bring up the position when it benefits big number and never when it hinders big number, but that's just a coincidence, I just happened by at the right time.
Yeah because the way the setting is set up you can do that, that's why it's meaningless to argue about these kinds of things since there is no concrete ground to stand on and you'll never convince anyone that cares enough to start this whole shitshow anyhow.
Again, super convenient that this argument only comes out in one direction, ever. I'm sure it was just random chance and you'd totally say the same thing about people presenting the bigger stats lol.
The settings main purpose is to serve as background for a tabletop wargame and also to help string together hundreds of different competing viewpoints into a coherent whole. It has to vague and permissive to accomplish that.
Incidentally this also makes it so that if you really want to you can argue about anything basically without the lore or setting having any hard boundaries or stops to impede you.
Energy weapons and scifi plasma are physically speaking super inefficient for the energy they consume. Hence 300mm RHA is plenty of armor to stop them while a modern shaped charge using 1% of the joules will punch right through.
Fair, but I'd like to think in that case the people in the setting are still logical enough that they'd notice that kinetic penetrators work super well and focus on those.
But still, stats outside of and for the tabletop are basically just fluff with no real meaning or bearing.
>Fair, but I'd like to think in that case the people in the setting are still logical enough that they'd notice that kinetic penetrators work super well and focus on those.
This is the setting where there are routine bayonet charges by men with machine guns. Lets not appeal to their good sense.
Yeah but WW1 had some pretty great generals as well. That one italian guy comes to mind. Or Russia's current disaster of a special operation. There's no limit to human incompetence, especially not in a setting so full of power and resources.
It's just that technical stuff is a bit more iffy to argue about.
Alright that's actually pretty neat, thanks.
>Yeah but WW1 had some pretty great generals as well.
That kind of only makes my point for me. In real life those absurd out of date decisions lead to disaster and people stop doing them. Meanwhile 40k is on it's seven trillionth battle using Napoleonic tactics after the invention of the machine gun, and not stopping any time soon.
Fair. I chalk it up to chaos shenanigans making people paranoid about creating too effective formations incase they go rogue. And the rampant corruption across the whole Imperium. Still I'll admit a large part of that is just style and basically copying WW1&2 plus added grimdark.
They do. Vanquisher cannons shoot APFSDS. It's considered a rare superweapon. Until recently in the fluff shaped charges were practically lostech too. From a Doylist perspective you can see why: RPG spam would make space marines and all the other heavy infantry elites key to the tabletop game obsolete.
I've always found it utterly hilarious APFSDS were considered super high tech that only one forge world in the entire Imperium figured out how to do. It's a shame that later fluff has worked hard at hiding this shameful history and turned to vague allusions about velocity. However, are not krak weaponry of all kinds meant to be shaped charges?
Wait till people realize that space Marines in lore have the same protection as a rhino APC, which is an m113, which means space Marines have ~31mm RHA, which means black tip .308 can pen all but the thickest parts of their armor.
It is best to ignore most sci-fi numbers and simply characterize effects against a familiar target. 12.7mm(.50cal) machineguns pulp people and 9x19mm mostly just pokes holes. Anything larger than .50cal is going to pulp flesh even more.
As far as craters and such a 500lb bomb will fling a house's walls and roofs, but it won't do much more than give a mild concussion to a man in a foxhole who is only a 10 meters away, even though the bomb would nominally have a 100m kill radius.
Overall it doesn't matter and you can have really big explosions that won't harm something that isn't hit directly or has some intervening cover. A WW2 tank cannon with 90mm RHA pen is mogged by a modern APFSDS dart with 3000mm RHA pen. The same dart is only going to pass through a few meters of dirt, because nobody can shoot through mountains.
>a modern APFSDS dart with 3000mm RHA pen.
What modern round goes through nine feet of armor? I thought 1000-1100mm was the upper limit.
Me and a couple buddies actually did a few calculations based off of the rogue trader RPG and what we found is that a regular imperial cruiser would have to fit something like 20 crewmen per cubic meter. GW is more than retarded sometimes
They used compressed farts, harvested from the fattest, most disciplined sororitas. Truly potent and worth pondering.
My headcanon is that's its imperial propaganda. After all bolt pistols and SoBs are a thing and just having power armor wont suck up enough kinetic force to prevent your hands from getting fucked if you are shooting a literla armbreaker.
Oh yeah, and that one catacham devil guy that hipfires a fucking heavy bolter kills this argument.
That being said, given that the bolters are described as having a hyper burst and their rounds having a shitton of mass, i can imagine that if a humie accidentally burst fires the stockless astartes bolter his wrists will resemble a bowl of pasta when taken to the xray.
Also, the real dumb fuckery weapon of 40k is the plasma gun. Yeah sure lets have a weapon only given to well trained elites be something known to just det if stared at incorrectly. People like dante have to be the luckiest fuckers in the galaxy to spend a thousand year career and not have their hand vaporized by a catastrophic failure
Isn't Dante old enough that he probably had crusade era instructions on proper usage and field handling, stuff like that.
Plasma weaponry to me is more finicky so if you have a budget gun or one that has spent the last 3000 years in some damp basement, you might be in for a surprise. However if it's built well and treated well it won't suddenly blow up on you.
They have safeties, it's just that you can disable them for more shots.
Danny has infernus pistol, which is mini-melta, which is a heat weapon. He also has a working brain, which is a very rare thing in the setting and is generally reasonable, that may also help a bit.
>crusade era instructions
Nah, he is 1500 y.o., not 10k. Intersting fact, guy is so old his hypnoconditioning has worn off, so he no longer hates all aliens by default. Still kills them, just doing the job.
> However if it's built well and treated well it won't suddenly blow up on you
It will if you overcharge it.
Also SoB use power armor and their boltguns are a different type to the one, which spehs muhreens use.
Not that wh40k canon is inconsistent as fuck
Are you really puzzled by the fact, that the universe which is made by people, incompetent in weaponry, and based solely on rule of cool, would strive for bigger and badder thing while still being improbable and absurd?
I always assumed he was like robocop or just didn't have any skin under the mask due to grimdark.
No, he is the most humane space marine, actually, even if extremely old by non-chaos marines standards. The oldest of all loyal, not dreadnaught marines.
He did look absolutely ghastly under the mask due to age, his body is so old it started losing regenerative properties too, had to start drinking blood to keep himself in fighting condition.
Btw he will be getting a new model soon, tied to primarisation, of course, chances are old but gold chapter master is going to be young and pretty again.
>Are you really puzzled by the fact, that the universe which is made by people, incompetent in weaponry, and based solely on rule of cool, would strive for bigger and badder thing while still being improbable and absurd?
We're not talking about what the universe does we're talking about what the braindead fanboys do.
>we're talking about what the braindead fanboys do
Read again: rule of cool. Everything in 40k is about form, rather than substance. If you fail to understand this and the logic, which emerges from this, you might be just as braindead. It was never realistic, will never be and is not trying to be.
Also 40k is very inconsistent, sometimes by design even, usually due to retardation. You are getting worked up over shit which people normally wave away and move on to discuss plastic toy soldiers.
>Rule of cool
We are talking about the FANS, not the WRITERS, retard.
>implying its any different for the writers or that they are competent in any way or form
>implying its any different for the writers or that they are competent in any way or form
No, not even slightly. It's completely irrelevant.
It's just typically 40K hyperbole. In one piece off fluff, they'll have low or even zero recoil. In another they will send you comically over the horizon from sheer recoil. It's basically whatever seems coolest to whoever was writing it. When they want to emphasize the bolter as a impressive piece of tech,suddenly it's low recoil. When they want to wank over Space Marines, suddenly it's got the kick of an actual intermediate caliber cannon, no matter how nonsensical that actually is.
We are going to have to act if we want to live in a different world.
>kills the crew and everyone around itself when damaged enough
>slow as fuck, can't outrun the worm
>atomic-powered, meaning the entire Lansraad has a heart attack every time one of these explodes
This question is bad and you should feel bad.
How about fictional weapons which are actually practical, while retaining some flare and fantastical element?
>Hardmode: Fictional weapons that are actually practical, while retaining some flare and fantastical elements, and are also from 40k.
This little beauty right here is the Kantreal pattern Lasgun/Laspistol. It gives every logistical officer within 20 miles an immediate, borderline priapic, boner. 0 moving parts (outside of the trigger), you need to basically blow it up to stop it from working, and it runs off of powerpacks about half the size and weight of a modern 30 round STANAG mag - that also holds several hundred shots each. Going by the descriptions in the novels they have an effect on target somewhere between .50 BMG at the low end and full on 25mm cannon shells at the high end. Even if it was just a mag of a few hundred 7.62mm equivalents that would be a godsend. Oh, and you can refill the powerpacks from any electricity source, or from leaving them out in sunlight, or sticking them in a fire (this will void the warranty and upset your local tech-priest though, be warned). The powerpacks are also universal across the entire line of weapons: from the pistol through the carbine, the rifle, the DMR, the SAW, and the HMG (multilaser) but you will need lots of them for the last two. From the Eisenhorn books we also know that they can be used as mini IEDs in extremis too.
They're also cheap enough to be basically expendable.
Oh god, an actual 40k fanboy getting triggered and pasting a wall of text about how many giga-joules the lasgun has and how awesome it is. What a sight to see.
>Going by the descriptions in the novels they have an effect on target somewhere between .50 BMG at the low end and full on 25mm cannon shells at the high end.
Begone spacebattler we don't buy this dumb shit here. Anyone comparing lasers to specific bullets is a huge retard anyway.
The more I look at it the worse it gets
Liger Zero or any of the ZOIDS
>pilot is concussed because the vehicle put its head back and roared.
Anything biomechanical, really, theres no way organic machinery could be maintained and reliably used on large scale.
At least Eva has the titular mechs be clones of aliens rather than actual robots, this gives some explanation as to how they exist alongside a basically conventional modern day military
Still, they have plenty of drawbacks
>between 1 and 5 minutes of power when not plugged in, as the plot demands
>so big and heavy that they tend to crush anything else on the battlefield including civilian infrastructure and ground troops
>very little AA capability, reliant on impressive ability to tank hits rather than actually strike back, at best can throw shit at aircraft or try to hit them with an AT Field, though they are short range options
>unacceptably high probability of going berserk mid-battle and destroying everything around them
>can only be piloted by the children of the souls used to control them, at the time the show takes place this limits the pool of pilots to actual child soldiers
>if the pilots figure out that their parents were killed to make the Eva work they will probably go batshit, they will at least probably refuse to fight for you, and then you have an almost useless Eva
>ridiculously expensive maintenance costs
>hiding their true biological nature is practically impossible because they bleed everywhere and even roar
>pilot training is of highly nebulous usefulness because their ability to control the Eva is strongly linked to their psychological state and even just if the soul inside the Eva feels like helping that day
honestly if not for the AT Field they would be dogshit
Evas would be supremely practical, as long as you were also fighting angels. That's the point of them.