Italy plans 20 bln euro tank order from Germany's Rheinmetall, reports Handelsblatt

>Italy is planning to buy hundreds of tanks from Rheinmetall opens new tab in what would be the German defence group's biggest ever order, valued at around 20 billion euros ($21.50 billion), the Handelsblatt business daily reported on Wednesday, citing industry sources.

>According to the plan, the Italian government would buy at least 350 Lynx armoured fighting vehicles and more than 200 Panther main battle tanks in an order spread over a 15-year period, Handelsblatt reported.

>Rheinmetall did not deny the report when asked for comment and said it would comment in due course.
In June, a source close to the matter said Italian defence and aerospace group Leonardo opens new tab was in talks with Rheinmetall on a strategic alliance for tanks.

>A Leonardo spokesman declined to comment on the Handelsblatt report, saying the matter was in the hands of the Italian government.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/italy-plans-20-bln-euro-tank-order-germanys-rheinmetall-reports-handelsblatt-2024-07-03/

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    EU money in good use, I see

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So it's not just a tech demonstrator now?

    nice

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Lynx is a finished product
      Panther isn't, but Hungary ordered Rheinmetall to develop it to maturity
      I guess Italy will partake in that now

      I hope both Italy and Hungary order it with the new unmanned turret that was unveiled at Eurosatory this year

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/pj51SqW.jpeg

        >Italy is planning to buy hundreds of tanks from Rheinmetall opens new tab in what would be the German defence group's biggest ever order, valued at around 20 billion euros ($21.50 billion), the Handelsblatt business daily reported on Wednesday, citing industry sources.

        >According to the plan, the Italian government would buy at least 350 Lynx armoured fighting vehicles and more than 200 Panther main battle tanks in an order spread over a 15-year period, Handelsblatt reported.

        >Rheinmetall did not deny the report when asked for comment and said it would comment in due course.
        In June, a source close to the matter said Italian defence and aerospace group Leonardo opens new tab was in talks with Rheinmetall on a strategic alliance for tanks.

        >A Leonardo spokesman declined to comment on the Handelsblatt report, saying the matter was in the hands of the Italian government.

        https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/italy-plans-20-bln-euro-tank-order-germanys-rheinmetall-reports-handelsblatt-2024-07-03/

        Looks like a toy

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        it bothers me how narrow the chasis is in comparison to the turret

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          that's a good thing tho. Smaller unmanned turret saves weight

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        what's this for?
        t. tourist

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Its the codpiece, its for scaring french nobility

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bore_evacuator

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          the knot

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          its involved in mating

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          ÒwÓ

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Lynx is a finished product
        lol no

        The Navy and Air Force have been the sole focus of this country for decades, the army ate scraps.

        >you are not gonna use it anyway.

        I wish, it isn't unlikely that we (including you, assuming you are American) are gonna end the story in Libya pretty soon.

        China and Russia are getting involved more and more.

        Without mentioning that the things in the east are not looking good.

        Italy should follow the French and use only wheeled AFVs except for the MBTs

        https://i.imgur.com/mOgCaXR.png

        It makes sense imo. Nexter and KMW are combining into NKDS. Airbus and Dassault are collaborating closely in the air domain. MBDA is already pan-European.
        Leonardo (who missed out on the Airbus civilian air gravy train and had to leave the market) and Rheinmetall (who risks missing out on the MGCS gravy train) have to find a solution before they get fricked by economies of scale.
        So I think it's a good move from them, and makes the European market more competitive as NKDS et al. will have an actual competitor and can't relax too much.

        I think the European market is slowly starting to resemble the American one, with a few big companies, some startups, but most importantly separation along company/product lines and not national borders anymore.

        >Europeans
        >actual competitors
        lol no
        >resemble the American one, with a few big companies, some startups
        there isn't enough overall market (sales) for it to ever resemble the American one
        >but most importantly separation along company/product lines and not national borders anymore.
        no, I still don't see any change or any sign of any kind of united EuroMIC, just more collaborations and consolidations forced by the constant gradual decay of the past 2 decades

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >there isn't enough overall market (sales) for it to ever resemble the American one
          kek, he doesn't know

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >>Lynx is a finished product
          >lol no
          go be moronic somewhere else

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            It seems you're a retared ESL chimp

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Idk what your argument is because the HDF already accepted the first production Lynx into it's military like 2 years ago. It's a finished product.
              https://defbrief.com/2022/10/17/hungary-receives-first-lynx-ifv-from-rheinmetall/

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Again this ESL chimp fails.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                He's right though, ESL homosexual. Lynx is in production and delivered ages ago.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/ODMSvV2.png

                Idk what your argument is because the HDF already accepted the first production Lynx into it's military like 2 years ago. It's a finished product.
                https://defbrief.com/2022/10/17/hungary-receives-first-lynx-ifv-from-rheinmetall/

                so tell us what the Hungarian Lynx's features are and how do they stack up against, say, the CV90 Mk IV
                particularly the electronics fit, I want to know about that

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                The Hungarian Lynx has Strike Shield APS from Rheinmetall, which has the lowest electronic signature of all APSs in the world, the lowest risk of fratricide to dismounted infantry, and even reduces APFSDS penetration by 50%: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBSo-0knbiw

                You may now cope about your cold war crap.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Failed at what? I proved its in active service and is being actively produced. Also post skin color, moron.

                [...]
                so tell us what the Hungarian Lynx's features are and how do they stack up against, say, the CV90 Mk IV
                particularly the electronics fit, I want to know about that

                It's a 2 year old IFV how would some random person have access to this info? It being classified doesn't mean it's not a finished product

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >there isn't enough overall market (sales) for it to ever resemble the American one
          What does this map represent, anon?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            maybe he banks on the us again pushing politically for their own shit.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >there isn't enough overall market (sales) for it to ever resemble the American one
            kek, he doesn't know

            What does this chart show, anons?

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >china is the 2nd largest
              I believe that even with bribes
              >russia is the 3rd largest
              somehow I question how this was real, now that we watched the Ukrainian war

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                TBF, the chart is in dollar terms and only shows the official defence budget allocations reported by their respective governments

                both China and Russia spend more than this I believe, by directing dollars allocated to other ministries towards military projects
                >inb4 wectoids do that too
                no, not to the scale that these two can

                >somehow I question how this was real, now that we watched the Ukrainian war
                don't underestimate the expense of modern war
                also, Russia fighting NATO-backed Ukraine is like if the US fought Iraq but Iraq's backers have 25 times the US budget

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >also, Russia fighting NATO-backed Ukraine is like if the US fought Iraq but Iraq's backers have 25 times the US budget
                I think a better analogy would be if Turkey fought a post-second gulf war Iraq while it was getting American support.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          should follow the French and use only wheeled AFVs except for the MBTs

          As a pasta person, I truly love the Centauro, believe me. Anyway I don't trust the wheeled concept one bit.

          The Centauro was made with a peculiar "mission idea". it was supposed to take the highway and move around the territory at 80km/h in case things with Yogurtslavia went hot and they invaded.

          I don't trust those wheeled ifvs a bit, not for off road.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            I still don’t understand the purpose of the centauro 2

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Oh Jesus Christ it's you again...

          Why do you have to spam every Euro thread with your uneducated bullshit.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          looks finished to me

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Dardo is also a finished product
            question is, "finished" to what spec

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              I don't think it's wise to compare the KF41 to something that was designed 40 years ago, but as far as I know it's fully finished and about 230 will roll out in the coming years.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                again, depends to what spec
                if you want exactly what the Hungarians ordered? Yes, it's a finished product
                if you don't? it's way not finished

                I'm stressing this because most people think, based on misleading pitch decks by manufacturers, that you can just order up a tank or even a frigate with all these listed bits and bobs, when the NUMBER ONE problem we have nowadays is actually integrating those components together, because newsflash: you do not build a tank like it's Lego. or plugging peripherals into your PC setup.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Hungarians have the fully specked one. SEOSS, MSSA, APS, ATGMS, everything.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                it depends on what the Hungarians chose
                and, as I hinted, the key considerations for a modern combat vehicle of the 2020s are not just the sexy shooty bits, but networking

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >2024
        >Gunners sight is still a weakspot in the armor
        why the frick don’t they bother to advance this tank from a leopard body kit and just fix it?!?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Its somewhere in between, as Hungary ordered two development vehicles based on Rheinmetall's ARV chassis like 1 or 2 years ago.
      Exactly what Rheinmetall is planning is a bit confusing because Rheinmetall owns the IP for the ARV modification, which is based on a Leo2A4 chassis, of which in turn KNW/KNDS owns the IP. So in short, Rheinmetall can do whatever the frick it wants with any chassis they have laying around or that a customer has, but they dont have the rights to build a new Leo-chassis from scratch.
      Last time i checked Rheinmetall does not have 200 A4-chassis laying around and neither does Italy, so it probably means that they will bring out their own chassis at some point (like the Kf31 went to become the Kf41, it started as a modified Marder), or possibly them getting BAAINBw to tard-wrangle KNDS into selling them clean chassis for modification.

      The funniest part of all of this is that Italy wanted to buy the A8, but with a bunch of local modifications such as an Iveco engine, new FCS etc. KNDS (and LEOBEN) has been desperate to limit variations the last years because they have to keep configuration management over like 50 different versions already.
      Seems they decided that Rheinmetall allowed them better terms in the end, but there's probably some MGCS frickery involved here as well

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Can they theoretically take an Ariete chassis and turn it into a Panther?

        The Navy and Air Force have been the sole focus of this country for decades, the army ate scraps.

        >you are not gonna use it anyway.

        I wish, it isn't unlikely that we (including you, assuming you are American) are gonna end the story in Libya pretty soon.

        China and Russia are getting involved more and more.

        Without mentioning that the things in the east are not looking good.

        Russians are currently in no situation to do anything in Libya. Even their Sahel dreams are looking bleak. Their puppets are losing ground while the freshly established Afrika Corps meant for the region got transferred to Kharkiv.

      • 1 week ago
        T-I-G-E-R-S

        >Rheinmetall can do whatever the frick it wants with any chassis they have laying around or that a customer has,

        RHM can slap on some additional ERA/APS, but that's all. Replacing the obsolete Composition C armour; or swapping torsion bars for a hydropneumatic suspension? Verboten!
        Unless their attempts to derive new chassis from Bergepanzer are just a practical exercise.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Its somewhere in between, as Hungary ordered two development vehicles based on Rheinmetall's ARV chassis like 1 or 2 years ago.
      Exactly what Rheinmetall is planning is a bit confusing because Rheinmetall owns the IP for the ARV modification, which is based on a Leo2A4 chassis, of which in turn KNW/KNDS owns the IP. So in short, Rheinmetall can do whatever the frick it wants with any chassis they have laying around or that a customer has, but they dont have the rights to build a new Leo-chassis from scratch.
      Last time i checked Rheinmetall does not have 200 A4-chassis laying around and neither does Italy, so it probably means that they will bring out their own chassis at some point (like the Kf31 went to become the Kf41, it started as a modified Marder), or possibly them getting BAAINBw to tard-wrangle KNDS into selling them clean chassis for modification.

      The funniest part of all of this is that Italy wanted to buy the A8, but with a bunch of local modifications such as an Iveco engine, new FCS etc. KNDS (and LEOBEN) has been desperate to limit variations the last years because they have to keep configuration management over like 50 different versions already.
      Seems they decided that Rheinmetall allowed them better terms in the end, but there's probably some MGCS frickery involved here as well

      Extra info

      >Leonardo and Rheinmetall have signed today a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to establish a new 50:50 joint venture aimed at developing a European industrial and technological approach in the field of land defense systems.

      >Rheinmetall and Leonardo signed a MoU for the creation of a joint-venture for the development and production of both the Panther and Lynx platforms for the Italian army. The project will give extensive design authority for both platforms and export rights to Italy. Including production, testing and overall support, 60% of the workshare of the project is supposed to happen in Italy.

      https://www.edrmagazine.eu/leonardo-and-rheinmetall-sign-a-strategic-partnership-for-the-development-of-the-next-land-defense-systems

      The Italian Panther will be built mostly in Italy and Leonardo will have design authotity to modify it to Italy needs and even have export rights for the Italian variant.

      Also Italy may join France and Germany MGCS program

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Ground_Combat_System

      >The Panther is set to fill the gap left by the KNDS deal falling apart. These 200 vehicles will likely be fielded alongside the upgraded Ariete. According to reporting Italy still wants to participate in the MGCS for a long term replacement of both vehicles. With the experience gathered from the Panther project enabling Italy to participate in the development of MGCS in the future.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Good for them.
    I missed the Eurosatory threads, anything exciting revealed this year?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      [...]

      basically everyone is jumping on the unmanned turret train

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Panther is coolest tank around right now, and yes as an Italian I am happy they are gonna buy it...kinda (Damn, the cost for military stuff is getting truly out of hand) yet I still don't understand how is this thing supposed to survive drones and loitering ammunition.

    Also...for the love of Germano Mosconi go for the big 130mm gun, let's not cuck it with the local 120...for once in the modern military history of my country I would love to have a firepower advantage.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      WTF does Italy even need tanks for?

      Have they even deployed tanks since Somalia? (And even there they didn't use their own but borrowed American ones)

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        In Iraq they used the Ariete.

        In Somalia during the battle of checkpoint pasta Centauro and M60s engaged the somalis.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Borrowed American M60's

          And the Ariete inventory has been rotting away in storage

          Italy should have spent the money on the navy and air force, things they'll actually use

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The Navy and Air Force have been the sole focus of this country for decades, the army ate scraps.

            >you are not gonna use it anyway.

            I wish, it isn't unlikely that we (including you, assuming you are American) are gonna end the story in Libya pretty soon.

            China and Russia are getting involved more and more.

            Without mentioning that the things in the east are not looking good.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I forgot Obama gave Libya over to ISIS, that's fair

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      it has a remote weapon station on top for anti-drone duties and also active protection systems
      but it isn't fully developed yet, it still has to reach production maturity
      for sure Italy will get local production and probably integration of Italian components too
      but the official order/contract hasn't been made yet, for now it's still just rumors

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      it’s a fricking moronic move
      t. another italianon

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Yes. This is another Italian from Rome oblast. It is moronic to work together in the EU in unity or to buy new tanks. We don't need no tanks at all.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          sono italiano, ritardato
          il panther è una scelta di ipermerda

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Parmegioano mozzarella don Camillo.
            No seriously. Why is it such a bad choice? You need new tanks in a short amount of time, so an development is out of the window. Italy has shown it's interest to join the mgcs program.

            I think it's a good path.
            But I like the Panther.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >buying a tank which isn’t even in its prototype form, let alone production, solely relying on its on paper stats
              >going for a 130 when your brand new wheeled gun platform uses a 120
              >going for a 130 when the ascalon is vastly superior
              >buying a tank cause you need something quick when the production lines are nowhere to be found

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                you don't know whether they'll go with 120, 130 or even 140. the contract hasn't even been signed, as of now it's just a memorandum of understanding.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                ah yes
                a Rh product will mount a KNDS gun it’s nowhere near fit to mount
                definitely

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                The point was more about the 120mm vs 130mm, which are both from Rheinmetall.
                Yeah the KF51 likely won't come with the 120mm/140mm ASCALON from KNDS, but theoretically it's probably possible.
                Hungary ordered the KF51 to be developed with the 120mm Rheinmetall gun, so wouldn't be surprised if Italy does te same - that is, if these rumours actually materialize and they actually decide to procure it.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                which, let me reiterate, is a moronic choice

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Highly unlikely that anyone will go for something beyond 120x570mm before it lands in JCB (ie US or germany introducing it). At best it will be "prepared for"

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >brand new wheeled gun platform
                Italians realized wheeled tanks are a meme and already preparing to write off the entire stock.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                what the frick are you even talking about

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Wheeled tanks suck

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                you suck

                ah, so that's why the centauro is the best selling italian IFV worldwide

                >centauro
                >IFV

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                shut up you worthless homosexual, choke on dicks until you drown

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                why are you mad

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Wheeled tanks suck

                NTA but anon was talking about ammo commonality you idiot
                >wheeled tank uses 120mm
                >tracked tank uses 130mm or whatever
                is not the optimal solution

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                ah, so that's why the centauro is the best selling italian IFV worldwide

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm SOO glad I bought Rheinmetall calls 3 days ago

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Interesting times

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It makes sense imo. Nexter and KMW are combining into NKDS. Airbus and Dassault are collaborating closely in the air domain. MBDA is already pan-European.
      Leonardo (who missed out on the Airbus civilian air gravy train and had to leave the market) and Rheinmetall (who risks missing out on the MGCS gravy train) have to find a solution before they get fricked by economies of scale.
      So I think it's a good move from them, and makes the European market more competitive as NKDS et al. will have an actual competitor and can't relax too much.

      I think the European market is slowly starting to resemble the American one, with a few big companies, some startups, but most importantly separation along company/product lines and not national borders anymore.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Rheinmetall and Leonardo are staying separate, they just want to create a joint venture for Italian MBT/IFV procurement.
        It's not like the KNDS merger (although that happened mostly just on paper, too).

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          I know, same for Airbus/Dassault, but the trend is evident.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Nexter and KMW are combining into NKDS
        KNDS*
        Or more specifically, KNDS Germany and KNDS France.

        And a lot of what we're seeing for the last few years (KNDS merger, the Leclerc/Leo2 hybrid, the KF51, Leclerc Evo and Leo ARC etc) can be tied to the MGCS gravy train and the eternal fight for marked share.
        The initial outlook of Nexter and KMW doing firepower/chassis would leave Rheinmetall out of the picture, which is why they are pushing the KF51 so hard.
        Which is also why the future of the KF51 development will be so interesting, seeing as KNDS and Rheimetall will be competing towards somewhat the same market.

        >Rheinmetall can do whatever the frick it wants with any chassis they have laying around or that a customer has,

        RHM can slap on some additional ERA/APS, but that's all. Replacing the obsolete Composition C armour; or swapping torsion bars for a hydropneumatic suspension? Verboten!
        Unless their attempts to derive new chassis from Bergepanzer are just a practical exercise.

        >Replacing the obsolete Composition C armour; or swapping torsion bars for a hydropneumatic suspension? Verboten!
        Yes and no. The B/C Tech (i assume that is what you meant) is proprietary tech from KNDS and a big no-no to play with. But removing and replacing with something else is allowed through existing contracts and is done by FFG, Rheinmetall, KNDS, Patria etc when rebuilding old A4s into stuff like the WiSent, Buffel, LEGUAN etc.
        This is ofc done in tightly controlled forms with the armor inserts being delivered to KNDS for disposal.
        Swapping torsion bars is done as part of the MLC upgrades for vehicles and not exactly controlled, but often regulated by LEOBEN's autism. Replacing it with something hydrodynamic would be quite complex i think, but Krauss-Maffei did make some proto's of it back in the 80's or 90's before deciding that is wasnt worth the trouble.
        But it is possible, Finnish Patria modified A4's with hydraulic track tensioning systems when they made their Leguan AVLB back in the days, something they did without help from KMW for example and only exist on these 10 vehicles

        • 1 week ago
          T-I-G-E-R-S

          Interesting

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Very based, more hand gestures and cool well armed boats built with the italians please.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Are there any programs in cooperation with Japan?
      And isn't Germany building rockets to fly to the ISS?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Isn't japan working with the UK and Italy on a jet? Though all 3 going further in on F-35s make me doubt it a little.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Are there any programs in cooperation with Japan?
        Yes, last month Japan and Germany/France signed a cooperation agreement on Railgun development

        https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/missile-defense-weapons/japan-signs-railgun-cooperation-pact-france-germany

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Is Japan still going for 40mm CIWS rail gun? I thought euro rail gun projects were all artillery oriented.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            I think they are still going for different applications, but now they are sharing their technology and working together on common problems

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Meh, could’ve been a good way for Rheinmetall to get knowledge on planes like the MB-346 in exchange

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    ugly ass camo, at least make it look presentable

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >doesn't like the roblox pattern
      oof.mp3

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Guess Italy is keeping with their theme of having shoddy tanks. Why not just but the Leopard 3s instead of this vaporware?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Do you feel like sharing this "Leopard 3" with the rest of the class?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Frick are you on about

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Do you want to read out the full name of that tech demo, anon?

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >spread over a 15-year period
    lol
    EUcucks have until like 2030 to make a decision on whether to release east europe into Russian care, and once they inevitably do, they don't even need this shit anyway. Enjoy being an ipoverished backwater I guess.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      what's it like being in a coma for two and a half years?

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >mfwI didn't buy Rheinmetall stocks on the 25.2.2022

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It was €50 during Covid, a few months ago it went to €550.

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    20 billion for 550+ toys?
    This sounds way too much. 1.7 billion is the most I can offer.

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Told ya, meloni was portayed as anti-german, but she made the deal, laughes about tiny asiaticshit wieners soon to be extinct too.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Also just sold ITA Airways to Lufthansa lol.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        you are thinking that too nationalistically. military procurement is more of a who does "lobbying" best thing.

        but tanks are obsolete

        yeah but rheinmetall makes tanks, so thats what being sold to politicians. the military performance doesnt really matter.

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    but tanks are obsolete

  15. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Well shit.
    OK Italy you're in, third trime's the charm.

  16. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Seems a questionable choice given how much of a failure Leopard 2 was, but, I guess it's only Italy, it's not like they're going to be actually fighting anyone.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      weak bait

  17. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I think you can see a clear gradient in european tank procurements. Poland and romania in the east are panic buying american and korean, most others are waiting for german production, italy is willing to wait for Panther to be fully developed. They will have to wait a fair while, but porentially have the most modern tanks in the world in a few years time.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      The advantage for Italy (unlike to need tanks anytime soon) is that Rheinmetall is very liberal in regard to tech transfer. The Panther will be built in Italy, Leonardo will provide some components, etc.
      So at the end of the day, some much-needed knowledge will be transferred to Italy which will then have something to show once it joins MGCS.

  18. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Tank thread
    >No drone gays shitting it up
    Feels good man

  19. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I hope this is a temporary solution. Italy is letting other countries develop their arms industry while neglecting its own domestic production. One thing is building licensed stuff, another is making something entirely italian. Italy is using american jets, half french frigates and german submarines, if leonardo wants to stay competitive they need to sell more than a couple softwares

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >A couple softwares
      You fricking moron. Leonardo develops
      >Loitering munitions
      >Drones
      >Helicopters
      And many more important arms.
      "Half-french" is also "half-italian", and Italy is also developing GCAP. Ariete is shit because our bureaucracy fricking sucks. I'd rather buy panther than let the incompetent politicians get a word in arms procurement. Europe ought to integrate more to the point where you're buying European, not French German or Italian.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Ariete is shit
        Youtuber tier opinion, the ariete as a tank is more than adequate, the only real issue being the low numbers and lack of spare parts and maintenance, but that is normal for a country that sends mbts as a token gesture during international operations like in somalia 30 years ago. Italy doesn't use tanks and frankly doesn't need them, there's no point in getting the latest toys if your borders are secure and you intend to buy a handful of them anyways.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Then what's the problem in waiting for panther? If tanks aren't that necessary, getting some high tech boutique models that are few but high quality works. Akin to a Type-10 situation.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            It is not italian, that's the problem

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              see

              https://i.imgur.com/vm27qD4.jpeg

              [...]

              Extra info

              >Leonardo and Rheinmetall have signed today a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to establish a new 50:50 joint venture aimed at developing a European industrial and technological approach in the field of land defense systems.

              >Rheinmetall and Leonardo signed a MoU for the creation of a joint-venture for the development and production of both the Panther and Lynx platforms for the Italian army. The project will give extensive design authority for both platforms and export rights to Italy. Including production, testing and overall support, 60% of the workshare of the project is supposed to happen in Italy.

              https://www.edrmagazine.eu/leonardo-and-rheinmetall-sign-a-strategic-partnership-for-the-development-of-the-next-land-defense-systems

              The Italian Panther will be built mostly in Italy and Leonardo will have design authotity to modify it to Italy needs and even have export rights for the Italian variant.

              Also Italy may join France and Germany MGCS program

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Ground_Combat_System

              >The Panther is set to fill the gap left by the KNDS deal falling apart. These 200 vehicles will likely be fielded alongside the upgraded Ariete. According to reporting Italy still wants to participate in the MGCS for a long term replacement of both vehicles. With the experience gathered from the Panther project enabling Italy to participate in the development of MGCS in the future.

              and Leonardo signed a MoU for the creation of a joint-venture for the development and production of both the Panther and Lynx platforms for the Italian army. The project will give extensive design authority for both platforms and export rights to Italy. Including production, testing and overall support, 60% of the workshare of the project is supposed to happen in Italy.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              every euro country doing their own specialized custom version and producing them in single digit numbers, will just create supply and maintenance problems down the way and end up being extremely expensive. working together to build common platforms is the right choice.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                No it's actually smart, Rheinmetall is known for working with local second order manufacturers, it shortens the logistics chain and makes things less complicated since those manufacturers are usually involved with the countries unique specifications. Sometimes it also gets adopted by other countries like the Australian Boxer variant also being ordered by Germany and the UK

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                they work with local manufacturers because those local manufacturers lobby for themselves to be included. you can bet your ass leonardo lobbied the italian politicians to keep them in the game. so rheinmetall knows if they want the deal they have to involve the local manufacturers. the locals do their own thing and their own "specifications" mostly so they can sell their stuff.

                the lobbyist tells the politician what they want and the politician makes it clear to the generals which product is supposed to win the "competition" so "unique specifications" are invented to make sure the right product wins and everyone involved in the procurement can profit. in the end the companies, the design bureaus, the manufacturing tools and parts, materials etc. are all international anyway.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              How is that a problem? Italy has only begun operating locally designed tanks in 1994. The Italian army was using American and German tanks prior for close to half a century.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          the ariete has an underpowered engine, which meant it needed to shed armour in order to keep its weight down, which makes it vulnerable. also hasnt been updated for 20 years now, has no production line, not even for spare parts, which means every spare part is custom build on order and sold at absolute premium prices that the state has to pay because where else would he get the parts? if i were an italian tax payer i wouldnt be too happy about the ariete.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Tbf that's a problem for basically every European tank with the exception of the Leopard and I guess some ex-Soviet stuff.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          pppppffffffffffft hahahahahahaha

  20. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Seeing the CV90s performance in Ukraine it’s not a surprise that they went German. If you absolutely have to have European, German armored vehicles are always the best option

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Listen Kumar, if i had an arm long enough to reach Mumbai i would smack you across the face for trying to frick up a half-decent armor thread

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      you dont know anything about the cv90s performance in ukraine.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        we see almost nothing of them being in use, which means there is something wrong with them. my guess is they are impossible to maintain and repair because of lack of spare parts and lack of repair and maintenance personnel and facilities, also only 50 were delivered, so they dont have a lot of them to begin with. that relegates them to reserve and emergency use.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >this means it’s good!

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Seeing the CV90s performance in Ukraine it’s not a surprise that they went German. If you absolutely have to have European, German armored vehicles are always the best option

          we see almost nothing of them being in use, which means there is something wrong with them. my guess is they are impossible to maintain and repair because of lack of spare parts and lack of repair and maintenance personnel and facilities, also only 50 were delivered, so they dont have a lot of them to begin with. that relegates them to reserve and emergency use.

          Kek, you are just edging to post another troll-thread about "foam armor", aren't you?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Leo2 is garbage though. Only western tank I know that tosses it's turret thanks to the hull storage being vulnerbale to AT mines

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Leo 2 only tossed its turret in Turkey because the Turks sat them in stationary positions on a hilltop and put them full of ammo in the hull

        afaik we didn't see any similar damage in Ukraine, the Leos there just got disabled by mines, which no other MBT would've been better at either.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Just don't use the hull ammo storage built into the tank and it's fine

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Turks parked 1980s era A4s on hilltops and morons here are yapping over the fact ISIS managed to take them out with ATGMs. We haven't seen any similar losses in Ukraine, the Leos destroyed/disabled there all remained structurally intact and probably saved the lives of their crews.

            https://i.imgur.com/lJ3g0Ta.jpeg

            Also happened in Ukraine

            Turret landed behind the tank

            nice 4k footage
            it's too high resolution for my screen

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Oh yeah

              https://i.imgur.com/oaZ2KcE.jpeg

              I mean, I'd still rather be in a Leo2 than any slavshit tank, but it's incredibly overrated.

              looks really structurally intact. That'll buff right out

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Also happened in Ukraine

          Turret landed behind the tank

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            I mean, I'd still rather be in a Leo2 than any slavshit tank, but it's incredibly overrated.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Oh yeah [...] looks really structurally intact. That'll buff right out

              disabled Western vehicles in Ukraine have been subject to heavy bombardment to deter Russian trophy hunters and Ukrainian recovery crews, so much of the damage we see is, as the coroners say, post-mortem

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >tosses it's turret thanks to the hull storage being vulnerbale to AT mines
        Yeah no

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        it doesn't lol, i don't really understand why this narrative took hold, but i remember pretty fricking well before it got memoryholed that those pictures of turretless leos was because they got immobilized and the turkish airforce decided to use a fricking airstrike to bomb them into oblivion.

        can we stop memoryholing shit please? i remember 3 years ago this was common knowledge. really goes to show how easily morons let lies take hold if you repeat them enough.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          It's happening in Ukraine too

          https://i.imgur.com/oaZ2KcE.jpeg

          I mean, I'd still rather be in a Leo2 than any slavshit tank, but it's incredibly overrated.

          The hull ammo on the Leo 2 is in the front left, it will toss the turret if it detonates

  21. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >No more Christianity, no more families, no more tradition and honor.
    So basically Russia?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      marriage and divorce have different cultural meaning though. germany has a low divorce rate because marriage has become a rare thing actually and you basically only marry someone if you are absolutely 100% certain that its the right one and usually several years after you already had kids. most marriage couples are well into their 30s here.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Ossi spotted

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          no i am a wessi. and also weddings are expensive as frick. this alone makes marriage a luxury. as a 24 year old who probably still has to pay off a car loan and wants to buy an apartment or even a house, you dont want to blow 40k eur on a wedding.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >buying a car on a loan
            >at 24
            Digga what are you doing?

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              The guy is probably an ethnic, that's why he needs a fancy car.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          shit that is an even better indicator of being part of the russian sphere of influence than alcoholism

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Russia also has one of the world's highest % of single parent homes. Unlike the US or UK they can't even excuse this through a large population of Black folk that can't hold down a job or raise a family.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          that doesnt mean much, i was also raised in a single parent home, but my father had an apartment a kilometer away and i saw him every week. my mum and dad werent mad at each other, they just didnt vibe anymore after a few years.

          its not like in america where a divorce ends in an expensive courtfight, where both sides throw shit at each other and in the end total rape of the man and the father isnt even allowed to see his kid and the mom moves to the other side of the country just out of spite.

          again marriage and divorce mean different things in different cultures.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Is domestic abuse of women also cultural thing that has a different meaning in Russia than in the rest of the world?

  22. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >No more Christianity, no more families, no more tradition and honor.
    Yeah, we don't want to end up like russia. They have the highest divorce rates, the highest domestic abuse rates, the highest aids rates, the highest murder rates, the highest alcoholism and drug abuse rates, the lowest standards of living, the lowest birthrate, no honor at all, and their culture was wiped out by communism.
    Russia is basically Detroit, but grayer.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Russia is basically Detroit, but grayer
      I never thought these words would leave my mouth, but that is a fricking insult to Detroit

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/XpxTNvb.jpeg

      [...]
      >No more Christianity, no more families, no more tradition and honor.
      So basically Russia?

      Notice how even the nato shill couldnt deny the pride parades and the wives being fricked by nigers

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >

  23. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I love Ariete. It's a tank looking tank.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      it’s the only thing it has going for it, really
      it does look very pretty

  24. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Please sir, I want photos of Ariete with add-on armour

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous
      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >dat belly plate
        >those gunshields
        gorge
        thanks

  25. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The Parliament approved the Leopard deal and not this one (yet). This thing will have to go back to the politicians.

  26. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    why is germany selling vehicles to the only filorussian government in europe again?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >selling
      it's literally made there

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >italy
      >filorussian
      ???

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        i'm talking about hungary

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        tbf italian support is quite lacking and, just like in the states, many right leaning politicians are/used to be russian simpathizers.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          just because it isn't made public doesn't mean it's lacking
          https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2023/05/guns-not-gnocchi-italian-military-aid.html
          this is more than a year old so it might be very outdated

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            I love gnocchi, I think they peak with a simple well made tomato sauce and some parmesan...never met a complicated gnocchi recipe that could beat that.

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