It is illegal to buy this shit in my state. No elephants were killed for this. It was just rotting under bumfrick nowhere in siberia. Does anyone else know of any other alternatives? Or other ways to not buy this?
It is illegal to buy this shit in my state. No elephants were killed for this.
>It was just rotting under bumfrick nowhere in siberia.
the extraction method involves washing away entire riverbanks
Ya, but thats in siberia
What’s the going rate for it these days?
I found some ivory when I was moving line 6mos ago. Word is my grandma had it and when they sold off the estate, nobody would touch it, so it was buried in my garage for 15+ years without my knowledge.
Have a little buddha too
Are there any identifying marks on those pieces?
I forgot to look and I have no idea where my wife put it.
I've seen figurines like those in South American tourist shops sell for 50-80 usd. They could have been fake. But if not, then less than that.
I doubt they’re fake. The Grandma that had the stuff was a smart lady, she was all over the world throughout her life so she’s not really the type to buy fake ivory from a tourist shop.
>tfw grandma takes me on a cruise when I’m like 12
>in Mexico at a israeliteelry shop she buys this $4000 necklace with a shit ton of gold and giant natural opal
>says “don’t tell your mother I bought this or she will put me a home”
It sucks because most of that stuff got sold off in an estate sale since my crackhead aunt and junkie cousin were all fighting over money, so the only think I really have is a box of WW2 stuff from when her and my grandpa first met, the couple little ivory guys, and this scarf thing that’s like 2 russian ferret type animals, can’t remember what they’re called but brown and furry as hell.
I am laughing at the amount of seethe in this post, all because your dumb tourist grandma bought some shit at a tourist trap
Nah that lady wasn’t a tourist, pretty sure her family was like royalty until the revolution, then they became super blue collar, she had to gtfo of Russia in her teens and then dip from Germany a few years later when stuff really started going downhill. She had a crazy life. The seethe is with the greedy family when she died.
The box of stuff I have has all these wild letters from her, but some of the shit is hard to read. The one letter I was reading, her dad had an auto repair shop in Odessa and he pretty much got contracted into repairing tanks and war vehicles, but they were staying at their milk lady’s house outside of town because the city was getting bombed. Just a letter to somebody, possibly my grandpa like “Yeah we’re cool even though our home was shelled”. She’s the wisest lady I ever knew.
I once found a really strange site that claimed the romanovs weren't actually killed but fled to america they had pictures comparing them. sadly I didn't bookmark it and I lost the site, always wanted to try and follow it up, but the modern web is hell for finding it again.
I felt that if the CIA had files that Hitler fled to south america and closed in the 80s then it might be possible the romanovs got out too?
There was somebody on Rogan or another podcast doing one of those mystery shows for Discovery or History and the guy claimed that they found such good evidence of Hitler making it to South America that the network shelved that episode or series and never finished it.
The Bin Laden death is a little bit sketchy too. Since when is a burial at sea a Muslim tradition?
There's a david frost interview with Benazeer Butto where she literally says the name of who killed him in baden baden in 2001. That's if you can find it and not the bleeped out version.
another fun thing to consider is that obama is thought to have been one of the fake bin laden's used in his videos.
Also look up how Bin Laden was connected to Tim Osman
Probably put him at the same place they dropped Kennedys body.
They took his casket put to the middle of the ocean and came back and still had a body in a casket. Why you guys go to tge middle of nowhere? No reason. Just felt like it
I don’t know the whole history, wish I knew more. But I think it was my grandma’s grandparents in these photos, and there’s one where they’re young like 20s-30s and dressed really nice in a fancy room, and then a pic of them later like their 50s that look like commie peasants trying to look their best for a photo. And thinking about the time is must have been, it seems like it lines up with the revolution.
But I remember a couple bits of a report my sister did on her life like 20 years ago, and there was something about her family being some royalty in Poland, but I know my grandma was in Odessa growing up before ending up in Germany and then eventually the US. I tried to do a little bit of the Ancestry tree but was unwilling to pay or give them my DNA so it didn’t really go anywhere.
>KVD's grandma is Anastasia
This is truly the most epic troll timeline
Here’s a couple pics.
So my Grandma must have been born right after the revolution, 1920-1925. I believe this pic is her grandparents when they were young, so later 1800s?
Like the carpet and walls and the hair and stuff, that doesn’t look like Russian peasants or very working class like the next pic.
I wish I knew more to the story. I need to dig through the box and post some of the shit one day. Peep my Soviet passport.
And then this pic looks like the end of her grandma’s life, and those are the people who raised my grandma (something strange like she was raised by her aunt or older sister?). It just strikes me how different the clothing is.
For small items like buttons, beads, inlay work, etc. there's tagua nut, aka "vegetable ivory", picrel is an example.
When real ivory was still in favor, celluloid plastic (nitrocellulose) colored and grained to mimic it was used for things like piano keys, guitar bindings and other parts,, combs, various fancy utensil handles, pistol grips, etc. and was known as "French ivory" and "Ivoroid".
It's still available, but not cheap, and it's also prone to degrading over time and is *highly* flammable.
http://www.axinc.net/Celluloid_Binding_Ivoroid_s/55.htm
you're taking an archeological time removing it from its context and destroying the scientific value of it.
the only reason it otherwise has value is nips and chinks want to carve shit out of eat or eat it for their limp dick.
its basically hair.
>archeological time
item
Google says 10 million mammoths are buried in siberia. Science doesn't need all of it. And they sell for €300+ for a chunk. china can't afford.
doesn't matter how many.
Sorry, but this is a bullcrap response on the same level as "because I said so, that's why!".
Everything that falls under the umbrella of "archeology" doesn't have the same value and the value of what archeologists may discover isn't necessarily of great importance.
I'm all for science and history and proper respect for preserving what potential treasures and knowledge might be lost through ignorance and greed, but archeologists and their ilk who think they are the gatekeepers who get to dictate what hitorical artifacts/resources the rest of humanity can access and control/own and reap the benefits of (and their bootlicking virtue signaler fanboys) can go frick themselves.
God i hate americans
just because you want something to be true doesn't mean it is. you're wrong.
Guy in Alaska is digging up a bunch, too, he was on Rogan recently.
I saw the guy talk about the cloning op with the mammoths and the indian elephant. Same guy?
No. The Alaskan guy is just digging up a warehouse full of mammoth bones and tusks on land he owns to mine gold on. He won't let the government get in, and has limited access with scientists because they'll lock him down from digging up any more. He's got mammoth, a couple dire wolves, flat faced bears, etc - and a breed of horse that's not supposed to exist there. He's also hinted that he's found human remains, but he doesn't want the scientists and government knowing. Really interesting episode.
He claims he ate 10-20,000 year old mammoth, they found a frozen corpse. He may or may not be full of shit.
His name is John Reeves, and there's a documentary on him, The Alaskan Boneyard.
No scientists. Just take my word bro. I got it all. Mammoths, Giant fricking wolves, downs tard-bears, a fricking zebra, and human shit. I ate it Joe, it was delicious. Trust me.
On top of the environmental and archaeological reasons mentioned already, another reason to just outright ban is it that there's no real system for proving the provenance of ivory. Poachers would love if there was a "legal" way to sell their ivory by pretending it's fossil ivory.
If the fossil ivory market becomes sophisticated enough to white-wash their shit the way diamond companies are doing to exclude conflict diamonds from their supply chains, then maybe they can start lobbying governments for exceptions.
And even the diamond companies doing it are scummy enough that many people don't believe them.
Good info
Why can't they just start an elephant farm somewhere? I'm sure industrial farming would easily make the profit margin on poaching ivory completely non worthwhile. Shit, you could even hire the poachers to guard the herds from other poachers.
Elephants too expensive to farm, need too much land. Get depressed and kill themselves
Elephants live longer than humans and are also really, really smart, so farming them would be crazy expensive. It's easier to just not use ivory and use alternatives.
They all die eventually though, and not making use of what's left behind is literally the opposite of conservation of precious resources.
The argument that allowing that ivory that didn't require actively killing an elephant to be used, sold, etc. would still cause them to be killed because it would create demand is just layer upon layer of worst case scenario "what if?"s that are really just appeals to emotion and can't ever be directly tied to any real world animal being saved.
It's just, " well, if people could use/sell no-kill ivory it MUST FOLLOW that people would then kill to get it because trust me bro."
Then these people act as if they saved anything but hypothetical elephants that don't exist, all while people who are going to poach or will buy poached ivory don't give a frick what the law says and do it anyway.
Forcing the waste of non poached ivory on top of all that is a gross mismanagement of natural resources, all so people can congratulate themselves for "doing something" they can't even prove they did.
>because it would create demand is just layer upon layer of worst case scenario "what if?"
In my state we used to have a huge problem with people stripping copper wire and pipe out of houses and stealing catalytic converters from cars. After the state passed a law requiring a permit to sell non ferrous scrap to recyclers (with an exemption for aluminum cans, junk cars, and batteries) the thefts pretty much stopped overnight.
You're a fricking moron. But also, I have to give you an updoot for being the first black-market-ivory-trade advocate that I've seen on this site.
Allowing a legal ivory trade makes it easy for illegal traders to profit, which drives the practice of poaching for ivory. It's common sense you fricking nogtard
> After the state passed a law requiring a permit to sell non ferrous scrap to recyclers (with an exemption for aluminum cans, junk cars, and batteries) the thefts pretty much stopped overnight.
So they did something completely different than banning that activity outright, that involved licensing and oversight.
>You're a fricking moron. But also, I have to give you an updoot for being the first black-market-ivory-trade advocate that I've seen on this site.
LOFL, thanks for proving that virtue signalling schmucks like you ALWAYS trade in worst case scenario gaslighting bullshit, so that any and all critique of current policy towards regulation of ivory MUST = "black-market-ivory-trade advocacy" with no possible nuance or position possible. You sound like a petulant toddler, but that's the level of intellectual maturity to be expected of your ilk.
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>Allowing a legal ivory trade makes it easy for illegal traders to profit, which drives the practice of poaching for ivory. It's common sense you fricking nogtard
How would you know? "Common sense" and logic dictate that if that were some immutable fact, then
allowing a legal copper and catytic converter recycling trade makes it easy for illegal copper and catalytic converter traders to profit, which drives the practice of people stripping copper wire and pipe out of houses and stealing catalytic converters.
ESPECIALLY since demand for both is far greater and more universal than the demand for ivory, ESPECIALLY when you narrow it down to demand by people willing to acquire it regardless of how it was harvested.
See, that's the thing, you have such a seething illogical hatred for the *idea* of owning or trading in ivory that you refuse to believe that people who might be open to that would ever refuse to support poaching. It helps you feel more virtuous and superior to pretend that someone who might want to see a treasured artifact from a long dead animal be preserved and appreciated by a new owner is 100% no different morally than an elephant poacher.
It's literally as dumb as claiming that someone who would purchase copper pipes in a new home or sell off the pipes when a home was demolished supports and encourages crackheads who strip houses for copper, and in the first case would be compelled to purchase illegal materials them and would/could never say no on moral, ethical grounds or just to avoid legal complications.
Your own anecdote shows that that's not true even with materials that are considered necessities, but you assume that people who might purchase/own legal ivory are so amoral and downright evil that total prohibition is the only way.
This purely emotional approach by histrionic children like you is why no rational discussion can be had, anyone who doesn't agree with you 1000% is an elephant murder advocate.
Grow the frick up.
>Allowing a legal ivory trade makes it easy for illegal traders to profit, which drives the practice of poaching for ivory. It's common sense you fricking nogtard
It's common sense you stupid frick. The reason that isn't making sense to you is because you're legit moronic. good luck with your legalisation efforts though, lol
t. sticking his fingers in his ears as he just keeps repeating the same illogical emotional nonsense over and over like a butthurt four year old.
But elephants visit the graves of their dead! If you harvest the ivory from their natural corpses, then there will be videos of sad elephants going to visit graves and seeing the bodies mutilated q . q
In seriousness, the real answer is probably just bioengineering and then growing/3d printing custom ivory. Perhaps even with deliberate chemical impurities that don't affect the quality of the material but do make it trivial to trace the origin of the ivory to synthetic manufacture.
Because elephants need vast amounts of space, tons of food to eat, and they don't reproduce quickly. They only reproduce - in the right conditions - every 4 years, and they carry the baby for 2 years. They also live for 50-70 years, and cutting a tusk off an elephant disables it, because they use them to forage for food.
You'd never get your investment back, for a resource that's fallen out of favor and been replaced. You couldn't own enough acrage to "farm" elephants, even for food.
There is not much difference between ivory and bone, the vast majority of people would not be able to tell the difference. There are only a few things like guitar picks where ivory has a real advantage over bone, everywhere else they are about the same.
Forgot to mention, antler is also a good alternative.
Thanks, ordered some of that seed stuff. They sell marrow near me so I can try bone out.
That bone may or may not be usable, if they cook the bones to cook the marrow than that will affect the bone, may or may not work. If it is raw bone you will need to degrease it, bone has fat in it which will go rancid. You can just soak it in water with dish detergent, keep changing the water until it is clear. And then you can bleach it if you want it white.
Butchers are generally the best source for raw bone.
Bog Oak is interesting but messy an aspensive.
I think this would broadly qualify as a fossil as well as ivory, so you've a double whammy there.
Historical crafts can still be traded, however there are complications to the extent that most people either go along with the ban or the stuff gets sold on the grey/black market.
1. Some Romanovs did get out early on, they were resettled in exchange for totally giving up the name. They wanted to capture and prevent any possible government-in-exile from forming. see "Seven Heads of the Green Dragon" for more info.
2. Of course they didnt get Bin Laden, the back half of the story leaked a few years ago, "Grand Falcon Wizard" in pakistan.
t. /misc/.
Anybody know where I can get a sjambok or make one? I ordered some from Cold Steel but they never came. Really wanting a nonlethal beating stick for the car.
I own one that I bought from a miner who had a gold claim up in the yukon.