Is this true?

Is this true?

  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Fuck off turning rate tard.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Who gives a shit, F35 will knock those Migs and Sukhois out of the sky before they even know they are in trouble. If youre getting into a dogfight in current year, you fucked up

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >No Eurofighter
    >No Gripen
    >No Rafale
    >No F-16
    >No F-18
    lol, lmao, okay. Bad bait.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >no undefeated F-15
      Fake, gay, and probably trans.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The F-15 fucks, no lie, but she's not a dogfighter anon. She's built for speed and power, not agility.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >he's not a dogfighter
          >superior sustained turn rates and competitive instant turn rates
          you watch-a-you mouff!

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    kinda true because most American planes have zero need to dogfight and aren't built for them. they'll just shoot you down from 5 kliks out with a missile.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      what if I dodge the missile and rush to dogfighting distance, then what?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you dodge missiles by flying away from them, not towards them

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >just dodge the missiles

          Lmao, genius thirdie moment

          You can't, you die. And IF you evaded, there will be another on your ass instantly, and they will keep coming until you die or the enemy is out of munitions, at which point they will RTB and reload for their next attack.

          >his plane can't dodge missiles
          tic toc F-Gays

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          By turning 90 degrees to their sensor and so take relative motion to near zero, actually

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            yeah, and if you're fighting an F-14 that'll work

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >He thinks notching still works
              Desu, you can't notch an AESA radar.

              >notching doesn't work on AESA
              Demonstrably false, but tolerances are lower

              >Muh AWG9 only

              Name an AAM with a terminal AESA radar. Whoops.

              >One weird trick BVR fags hate- snapfire on RWR bearing to make him go pitbull then notch 1970s style.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                good luck with your retarded notching when there's AWAACS and 50 other planes in the area

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Name an AAM with a terminal AESA radar. Whoops

                AAM-4. Presumably the next gen US missiles will have some kind of phased array terminal seekers as well

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Are you implying vks pilots are trained in defensive BFM?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Demonstrably false, but tolerances are lower
                It only works if you know you're being targeted. What happens when an F-35 locks you from 80nmi+ and launches an AIM-120D at you? You wouldn't have a clue that the F-35's radar is tracking you, and sending updates to the AIM-120D until it gets in range to go active, in which case, you're all ready dead. Russia RWR, and EW are notoriously shitty, and "low resolution", meaning you get very little information from the RWR, and it completely shits itself when up against't an LPI AESA like the F-22, and F-35 have.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Okay, now the attacking pilot notices what you're doing and counter-notches to keep lock. What now?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >He thinks notching still works
            Desu, you can't notch an AESA radar.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Notching is really risky and unreliable against modern radar guided missiles. It's not the 80s any more

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How are you going to notch both the aircraft and the missile's radar at the same time? You can't physically notch two different radars unless they're perfectly co-located. Also the level of precise notching to make this happen against modern radars is impossible unless you have a perfectly accurate RWR for the azimuth and elevation angles and basically a drone to fly that perfect perpendicular flight path.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >just dodge the missiles

        Lmao, genius thirdie moment

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You can't, you die. And IF you evaded, there will be another on your ass instantly, and they will keep coming until you die or the enemy is out of munitions, at which point they will RTB and reload for their next attack.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >it was a hologram

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is like asking why I can't rush the guy with a rifle to get him with my knife. It's an impressive feat even in video games.

        Dodge one incoming and more will follow.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It'd be impressive to see a plane shoot multiple missiles per second.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Link16 was made to support multi target launch not just 1 for each bird, but multi target launches at once(or quick succession) from one bird.
            As long as they're tracked on radar and in datalink you can salvo to each one right after another.
            That's the whole reason the greatest airframe to ever exist was upgraded to the f15-ex missile boat status. It can rifle 16+ fox3s that the sneaky boys are painting in link16.

            https://i.imgur.com/65kcBzc.png

            I 360 and supercruise away

            >not 360ing and mil cruising to slowly outpace them making them over extend
            ngmi

            what if I dodge the missile and rush to dogfighting distance, then what?

            you're retarded

            https://i.imgur.com/dgBcMhE.jpg

            Is this true?

            >muh turn rate argument

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              who is that guy on the right?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                James McDonnell(of McDonnell Douglas) if I'm not mistaken.
                Could be wrong though.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you can totally abuse the i-frames by dodge barrel-rolling towards the missile when it explodes.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >dodge the missile
        >he thinks there's only one
        ngmi

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >his plane doesn't have enough stamina to dodge more than one missile

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >what if I dodge the missile
        How will you even know it's there? Or that you're being painted by the AN/APG-81? Seeing how it is an LPI design, and able to jam the F-22's AN/APG-77 during testing, I don't think you would even know you were targeted, and launched on til the very last minute when the AIM-120D3 goes active.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >How will you even know it's there?
          That's AWACS' job.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >That's AWACS' job.
            How is it going to help you? What's its detection range for an object with an RCS of 0.0004m^2? What stops the F-35 from smacking it with an AIM-120D3 from 120 miles away? Or an AARGM-ER?

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              AWACS doesn't have collision box.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The F-35 can just <insert hit box here> and use its aimbot.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What the fuck how is that shit allowed?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He who has the gold makes the rules

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Cool it down with the anti-irish remarks.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Even if you disregard all the very valid points brought up by other replies, you still need to actually see the other plane in order to kill it and the F-22/35 is far too stealth for your thirdie snowmoron radar to ever find

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I 360 and supercruise away

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >a bullet whips past your head
        >look around
        >there is no one to be seen
        What now thirdy?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >follow bullet's trajectory and space disruption trail to locate shooter
          >throw grenade for maximum area coverage
          >see my KD ratio go up

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Then god bans you for cheating.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      > they'll just shoot you down from 5 kliks out with a missile
      Try 75. 5 kilometers is dogfighting distance.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        75km is way way outside the min abort range for any AAM against maneuvering targets

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I'm sure to win because of my superior turning rate
    Yeah...

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's true. The A6M never lost a single dogfight. There was absolutely no counter to its turning rate.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        anon forget that we live in 21st century

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/RluDdtF.jpg

          Fella, buddy, pal, friend, brother... le modern aircraft do not have to point their nose at you in order to get lock and fire a heat seeking missile at close range.

          Is irony a foreign concept?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's very difficult sometimes to determine someone who's being genuinely retarded and someone who is only retarded in pretend 🙂

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I just assume everyone's retarded until they prove otherwise. Still have yet to prove myself.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Fella, buddy, pal, friend, brother... le modern aircraft do not have to point their nose at you in order to get lock and fire a heat seeking missile at close range.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >never lost a single dogfight
        Except for, you know, the fact that all of them were destroyed by American aircraft built to counter them.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    was this made by armatard?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I thought the F22 was a BVR missileboat and the 35 is the fighter?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No the F-22 is the stealthy and fast fighter-interceptor. The F-35 is the slightly less stealthy and much slower multirole.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The F-35 is the slightly less stealthy
        It's been publically acknowledged for years that the F-35 is stealthier than the F-22. Some say an order of magnitude stealthier.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        F-35 literally looks like a bathtub with wings anon

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          meant for

          I thought the F22 was a BVR missileboat and the 35 is the fighter?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The F-35 is an attack plane that can also do air to air pretty well due to its sensors and stealth. Its FCS and fat engine also make it pretty good at dogfighting apparently
      there hasn't been a dogfight since like vietnam anyways, dogfighting is about as relevant as napoleonic era armies lining up with flintlocks

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >there hasn't been a dogfight since like vietnam anyways
        Wasn't Vietnam the last war fought with near-peer aircraft at any scale? Gulf War involved a massively superior air force steamrolling a thirdie military with bargain bin Soviet planes from the 70s. Maybe the chance of dogfights still exists and the right conditions just haven't been met in a long time.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Iran-Iraq, Falklands, there have been a few.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No. Assuming you mean dogfight as in an actual post-merge maneuver engagement, all these jets would get their clock cleaned by a WWII warbird.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    "Wow! Those 4th Gen fighters can do the thing that no one actually does any more way better than the new aircraft that don't even give a shit about"

    Who cares?

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Dogfighting

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dogfighting in current year

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can someone explain to me how dogfighting ability is completely obsolete when a skirmish between planes is much more likely to happen than a hot war?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is assuming a 'sucker punch' against an unarmed patrol aircraft. If the sides are actually in the position where there's the chance that one might attack the other, they (if at all capable and competent) aren't going to put their multi-million dollar missile chucking platforms in range of a 30mm cannon. BVR missiles rule the skies, not some boomers Top Gun fantasies.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    None of these are Spitfires.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Advanced SRAAMs:
    SRAAMs are not for jet combat unless you are on the water and something terrible has happened, in the modern day their role is knocking shit down trying to take off within your range (i.e. austere helicopters or STO prop shitters), hitting very low aspect/low value drones, or potentially even hitting things on the ground. They make the most sense in contested airspace in Europe, which is why the UK made the ASRAAM, but ultimately the US doesn't really care about them anymore, deferring to laser developments for the close-range interception role.
    AMRAAM has been operational since 1991 - BVR potentially over-the-horizon fire and forget missiles with 3x the range of a modern sidewinder and 2x the (alleged, never properly demonstrated) range of a R-73M DUMFUK-MD, despite ultimately only being 1.5x the size.
    There's a reason F-22s carry 6x AIM and only 2x sidewinders, while F-35s are pushing hard to include JATM in the arsenal.
    As we know well from Ukraine, the R-37, rushed into service in low quantities, is a lemon even against Soviet hardware. It's a good thing theoretical SU-57s theoretically carry alternatives that match AMRAAM in quantity and potency like
    >
    and
    >
    uhhhh I meant the SU-35, which carries the Soviets' R-27, variant models with passive homing which has been so successful that Ukraine managed to hit 1 (one) non-stealth jet with them, and that's it, over the entire war so far for both sides.
    I think you get the picture.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The AA-10 has always been a dud. In the Eritrean–Ethiopian War they had a worse hit rate than Vietnam-era Sparrows. Which were terrible for a number of reasons.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And before anyone jumps on you with

        >nig pilot

        Shit, both sides were contracting Soviet trained mercenaries. In that war. Post unification analysis of East German R27s was not complimentary either.

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Heheh...ASSRAAMS...

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      wait until you hear about ATTACKEMs

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        For me, it’s the SLAM-ER

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >top 10 dogfighting jets
    >gets dunked on by $700 consumer drones because too poor and lazy to construct covers and air defenses.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dunno, but it's about as relevant as arguing about the best assault rifle for a bayonet charge

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      M-14 obv

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >does some autistic 9G maneuvers
    >aim-9x block II+ slams into the cockpit because it can pull 30G

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It’s a decent graphic for ace combat…. But reality is a lot different from video games..

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >top 10
    >only shows 5

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Top gun maverick managed to show the best example of modern air to air combat.. but only briefly.. at the end, after he runs out of missiles, out of bullets, flares and tricks…. After he apologizes to goose for his survivors guilt and inability to save rooster… as he accepts his fate and the enemy plane locks on to him….. it gets blown out of the sky by a missile it never saw coming, launched from a plane it didn’t know was there… and that single interaction is probably the best example of what air to air combat has looked like for a few decades, and will continue to look like till we work out some kind of drastic technological advances…. If your American, British, or possibly a few other countries it looks pretty good. If your third world, it looks a lot like an unplanned explosion, if your Russian then realistically your standing on the tarmac somewhere wondering how someone blew up your fancy fighter jet with their 500$ Ali express electronic and cardboard arts and crafts project…. Welcome to reality.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    2 MiG-21 Bison with the r-73 and the HMS would beat any of these aircraft in the merge.

    The fact is that ever since the proliferation of agile all aspect missiles, the WVR fight has been determined largely by numbers, situational awareness and starting conditions.
    It's basically a loser's game, winners focus on BVR; that's where you can find a large edge.

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    funny the SU-75 has just been announced to be delayed once again (what a surprise) and will be fit with the same X/L potemkin band radars as the SU-57. And there is also the lack of a large enough internal weapons bay despite being larger than the F-22.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Is anyone, even within the Russian MIC, pretending that the su75 is anything but theatre? Like, they’re still using a mildly upgraded variant of the AL31 in the most recent flanker variants, and we’re supposed to believe they can design and build an engine at the level of the F135, let alone the impending adaptive cycle shit? You could hand sukhoi the entirety of the f135 design and manufacturing documentation on a hard drive, and they wouldn’t even get close to being able to design the manufacturing tools required to build the engine, even with Chinese assistance

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Probably not, but someone way up is going to have a temper tantrum and fill up three more penal colonies if he can not get at least a vague assurance that russia will have jets that will surely be superior to anything from the west

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Well the F 35 would win because none of the other planes actually fucking work.
    Next question

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you just want to turn in circles all day put TVC on an F-16 update the flight conrol software to increase the AoA and call it day.

    Of course even as far back as WWII air combat involves more than turn rates.

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The difference between Russian and American doctrine is that the Plane for Russians is the weapon while for America it is the platform. In that sense it seems like Russia would have the upper hand but in reality US missles are more well equipped to deal with them

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    lets say - just for the sake of argument - that it's completely true
    ..i'm still 100% putting my money on the f-22. the pilot will actually know how to fly and the plane will actually be maintained.

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Turn fighting in the era of off-boresight missiles is an instant death sentence. Extending and using turn rate might work when the other guy actually needs to pull you into the HUD to get a tone but in this day and age it's asking to get fucked by a 9X

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Doubts about the russian planes aside, is dogfighting even a thing anymore?
    We are seeing in the ukraine war that it is impossible for planes to fight each other because the side that is fighting over enemy soil will just get shreded by AA defenses.
    It looks like the only way planes will be able to operate over enemy land in the future will be by going for as much stealth as possible and being used mainly for bombing

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There are fewer Mig-35s than there are Su-57s, and for that matter there are barely any Su-57s at all.

    As far as the three actual production aircraft on that list go, the Su-35 probably does have a maneuverability edge on the F-22. But then you get to the Eurocanards and their quirky ways.

  32. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >no blitzfighter
    Not even remotely.

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