is this 6.8 round commisioned by the military realy a game changer or just skme useless way to spend money?

is this 6.8 round commisioned by the military realy a game changer or just skme useless way to spend money?

  1. 7 days ago
    Anonymous

    just a way to make some garden gnomes rich

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      fpbp

    • 5 days ago
      Anonymous

      fpbp

      based PrepHoleommandos

  2. 7 days ago
    Anonymous

    They designed a bullet to defeat near pear armor to 400m, then put the contract out for a company to make it, and put it in a short action rifle.
    So the military certainly thinks it's worth it.
    From the civilian side, you're basically getting .270win +p performance from a short action, so that's nice for hunters.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      >So the military certainly thinks it's worth it.
      They also thought the M14 was worth it, for similar misguided reasons. No M5 gunner will ever defeat peer armor at 400 yards—a 10×12 plate is a 2.5 MOA target at that distance, which means it's not happening unless Chang is literally standing out in the open waiting to get shot—and if the bullet doesn't hit his plate, then 6.5 Creedmore or even 5.56 would have done the job just as well.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        >he thinks it isn’t designed to contend with the largest purchasers of lvl iv plates recently... the American public

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          Meds

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            Mediterraneans barely have any rights at all and they certainly don't have many level 4 plates.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            Glow

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          It clearly is; I was just addressing its stated purpose. Americans probably own more Lv4 plates than China and Russia combined.

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          How does that change the issue that it won't work? It literally cannot do what it is proposed to do.

        • 5 days ago
          Anonymous

          moron how many people do you know that actually own plates let alone GOOD ones
          moron how much coke are you on to get to this level of paranoia to think the fucking US military would go to war against its own civilians when the fucking national guard could barely be fucked to pull up to the capitol hill unguided tour

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        it doesnt beat lvl4 guys that was not a contract requirement. Its designed to overmatch GPMG.
        The AP thing was just how army ordnance the incompetent fucks sold it. They should have never been allowed to reform after they were disbanded over the m14, and sabotaging the m16.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      >From the civilian side, you're basically getting .270win +p performance from a short action, so that's nice for hunters.
      .270 WSM has been around for 20 years.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        this.
        277 furry is a solution no one needed, just yet another moneygrab for sig

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        .270 wsm is
        1. Too fat
        2. Been dead for 18 of those 20 years.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        Are there any semi autos in 270 WSM?

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          yes

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            You can get a Benelli R1 chambered for it too.

            • 6 days ago
              Anonymous

              Not anymore, at least not new anymore I don't think.

              But yes, they were available for a number of years and you can still find them for like $1k used in .270 WSM.

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          Not really.
          .270 wsm in everything is pretty much dead.
          Semi autos can't feed any of the wsms well, something to do with the shoulder angle for magazine feeding (apparently even mag fed bolt actions hang up sometime)
          The SAUM family was more reliable in semiautos.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      >They designed a bullet to defeat near pear armor to 400m
      Don't hold your breath too long awaiting that ship to arrive, anon.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      Breh this bro really bought the Army’s bullshit.

      No, 6.8 can’t defeat near peer armor at 400m with a steel penetrator.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        You're retarded, they made some tungsten penetrator 6.8

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          >7.62x51 cant clear near peer armor at 400m with off-the-shelf tungsten AP already
          Army doing gay embezzling stuff, nothing new. Swiss P handles level IV out to 350m, HAPI does the same at 450m, and its not like the "sekret sauce pls believe us" AP is gonna cost LESS than either of those two.

          Also of note, plates are coming onto the commercial market that stop the heavy-hitter 7.62 tungsten AP options, so its kind of moot.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >Also of note, plates are coming onto the commercial market that stop the heavy-hitter 7.62 tungsten AP options, so its kind of moot.
            No one could possibly have foreseen this. It's not like .50 BMG pl8s have existed since the 90s (that we know of) and the obvious punish for developing a rifle and cartridge optimized for existing armor is *slightly better armor*

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >well a round going 400+ fps slower, with shittier sectional density and a larger cross sectional area, clearly 6.8x51 can't either
            Consider suicide brainlet.

            • 6 days ago
              Anonymous

              Im saying the solution to most body armor already exists in modern tungsten-core 7.62. Today, with a AR-10 and HAPI rounds, you can crack Level IV plates at 500yards.

              6.8 isnt doing anything new on the armor penetration front, its decidedly shaky justification and seems to have sprouted as a sort of backwards justification for the program proceeding.

              • 6 days ago
                Anonymous

                The rifle was dumb, but I like the beltfed, on paper anyway. Lighter than the m249 with bipod and supressor and a belt of ammo, even if you're down half the ammo. Way, way lighter than a m240. And better ballistics than both.

              • 6 days ago
                Anonymous

                >the solution to most body armor already exists in aiming for the enemy's dick
                yeah

              • 6 days ago
                Anonymous

                >Nothing personnell kid. psssh, maybe youll have the upper hand someday

              • 6 days ago
                Anonymous

                >now you have a ~5 lb plate flopping around and hitting you in the dick repeatedly whenever you run anywhere
                congratulations, you played yourself

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                I'd rather be uncomfortable than dead. Especially if I anticipate someone shooting at me

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                >implying the soldiers of the future aren't into that

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                >t. mad they can't shoot my dick off

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      That was supposed to be the case, but the IWI shill made a video on garden gnometube where he shoots one of those rounds commercially available, and it can't defeat a level 4 plate. I do hope the military round with the higher pressure and a steel penetrator bullet fares better, otherwise the whole point seems pretty moot.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        The commercially available rounds are lead and copper, at ~200fps slower than the military tungsten core rounds.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        >and a steel penetrator bullet fares better
        they're not spending $22/bullet on a hardend steel penetrator. That's more than enough money to be tungsten.

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          >$22 a bullet
          For real? So not ever issued in wide numbers. Not when every guy on the squad has a full load out of 6+1 * $440, plus $2200 for a belt of 100 for the SAW gunners.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >It costs four hundred thousand dollars to fire this weapon... for twelve seconds.

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            No, they've got 2 rounds, XM1184 and XM1186

            one is the standard normal combat round probably with a copper/steel bullet and it costs a couple bucks per shot (price will go down once lake city starts production) The other is called the "special purpose" round and it's like $22/shot right now (again price will go down when lake city starts production). But even so just seeing the early low production prices we can clearly see the "special purpose" round is likely a tungsten AP round.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      My theory…the armor they want to defeat is CONUS.

      They're ordering a lot of M5's if they aren't planning to use them.

      They're getting like 1000 M250's to replace M249s
      They're also getting like 14500 M5's to replace M4's in FY23 alone. With another ~20-30k in FY24 and FY25.

      What else are they going to use over 50,000 M5s for in the next 3 years if NOT to replace the M4 in front-line combat units?

      This

      Sig is gonna make a killing off of this. They basically own the US Army

      I worked for a fed agency that selected the HKP2000 over the P229DAK and Sig sued and won the contract for like 1800 handguns and they had to retool to add the extra digit for the agency serial number. They are scheisters.

  3. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    It's a massive cope. It's literally just a meme variation of 7.62x39 they commissioned because they couldn't admit 7.62 was better than 5.56.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      >What is .300 Blackout?
      And 7.62x39 isn't even in the same category of this round, retard. Go back.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        A way of forcing americans to buy American for the same product at 2-3x the cost

        • 5 days ago
          Anonymous

          At least we make way more than 2-3x what you do.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      >meme variation of 7.62x39

      Do what? 6.8 NGSW is a significantly hotter, faster cartridge than x39

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      thanks for outing yourself dipshit, now git

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      >7.62x39
      Are you fucking retarded?

      7.62x39 has ~45-50k PSI and ~150 grain bullet at 2100fps from a 20" barrel

      6.8x51 has ~80k PSI and a ~140 grain bullet at ~2950fps from a 16" barrel

      They're not even close to similar.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      so your retarded an have no idea what guns are or how they work. the NGSW 6.8 is a magnum cartridge. more powerful than 762 nato. Its closest competitors are 300wsm in performance. also 762x39 was replaced by the soviets with a meme copy of 556 so you are doubly retarded.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      congrats on having the stupidest post of the day.
      Fucking idiot.

  4. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    The problem is there's indication that it doesn't actually meet the initial specs. If it doesn't, it can't punch armor at the distance they're talking (or potentially some of the higher plate ratings at all). If that ends up being true then it was truly a useless move.

  5. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    A way to get new hardware in inventory to replace all the clapped out shit

  6. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    There is absolutely no way they will be replacing 5.56x45 with this.
    They will just be replacing 7.62x51 with this.

    M14s/AR10s/HK417s - replaced
    M240s - replaced
    M4s - going nowhere

    Refute me.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      >refute me
      no.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      They're ordering a lot of M5's if they aren't planning to use them.

      They're getting like 1000 M250's to replace M249s
      They're also getting like 14500 M5's to replace M4's in FY23 alone. With another ~20-30k in FY24 and FY25.

      What else are they going to use over 50,000 M5s for in the next 3 years if NOT to replace the M4 in front-line combat units?

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        >1,000
        >14,500
        >50,000
        How many M4s are there? I'm assuming it's a seven, possibly eight digit number?

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          The M5 was never meant to replace the M4 in every capacity, its ONLY meant to replace the M4 for the main combat infantry elements.

          The entire program is only meant to order ~115,000 M5's and around 20-30,000 M250s.

          > The Department of Defense’s budget justification books for the fiscal year 2021 suggested that 29,888 weapons would be procured in FY 2023 (at a cost of $216.4 million), 46,129 in FY 2024 (at a cost of $336 million) and 54,056 in FY 2025 (at a procurement cost of $383.9 million).

          • 6 days ago
            Anonymous

            >ONLY meant to replace the M4 for the main combat infantry elements
            Yeah, only the teams that have to actually assault as manuever elements with more weight for less ammo, and might have needed more bullets for the whole "firing at positions known, likely, or suspected" thing.

            Yes, I am biased against battle rifles, at least for the manuever element, and yes I will stop my bitching if I see an army wide issued .277 bullet that penetrates level 4 plate, at range, without tungsten, because blah blah blah, adapt or die.

            • 6 days ago
              Anonymous

              It seems ridiculous because half a century of worldwide conflicts have shown that there are certain trade-offs and advantages that battle rifles can offer, and those situational advantages are significant enough that it's worthwhile to give a battle rifle to maybe one guy, per squad. They're actively unlearning history's lessons.

              Why not just give every soldier a rocket launcher so they can run around blowing everybody up like TF2?

              • 6 days ago
                Anonymous

                Actually factual statements here.
                >why not everyone rockets

                I mean...why not?
                Half the squad is missile launch systems with MP7s and half the squad is LMGs.

              • 6 days ago
                Anonymous

                half the squad has grenade launchers so, baby rocket launcher.

              • 6 days ago
                Anonymous

                dude they should've designed the M5 to take rifle grenades
                everybody in the squad would be a designated marksman, assaulter, and anti-armor guy all at once—it's peak Big Army "goood idea fairy" thinking

              • 6 days ago
                Anonymous

                "Every man a rifleman" hasn't been true for decades but it's a seductive fantasy

              • 6 days ago
                Anonymous

                the virgin QN-202 vs The Chad Pike

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        >they’re producing
        Nothing because afaik the lawsuit filed by the program competitors is still not resolved.

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          It was dropped a month ago

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        50,000 is not a lot of guns lol

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          in a single year or two for a program that was only ever supposed to produce like 120,000 guns?

          Again you fucking retards, this program replaces the M4 in FRONT LINE UNITS, nothing else.

          M4 will still be used very widely for decades even if the army buys every single M5 they say they will.

          • 5 days ago
            Anonymous

            >this program replaces the M4 in FRONT LINE UNITS, nothing else.
            What happens to the Minimi in that event? Do they increase the complexity of the logistics chain by 50% at the squad fucking level, or do they get rid of light machine guns for the first time since the 1970's?

            • 5 days ago
              Anonymous

              xm250 is scheduled to replace the m249. One one hand, the ammo belts are closer to the m240s in length and weight. On the other hand, you're getting a Hispanicy ass m240 with supressor and optic for less overall weight than a 249.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                On the other other hand, you no longer have an LMG and you've offloaded the automatic rifleman role to guys with what amounts to a .270 WSM Browning Automatic Rifle.
                The Army is actively unlearning the lessons of history.

                some General wanted it to cement his legacy, put together the right powerpoints with cherrypicked data, ignored all counter-arguments and here we are

                anyone who thinks it has ANYTHING to do with real need is a fucking retard who has never spent a day in the Pentagon where these decisions are made

                Sometimes it feels like the Pentagon has an equivalent to the "publish or perish" culture you see in academia, where generals are expected to get budget approvals for programs—any programs, no matter how stupid or pointless—if they want to be taken seriously and considered for advancement.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                >you no longer have an LMG
                how so?

                The M250 is lighter than the M249 it's replacing.

                Just because it's firing Hispanicy 7.62 doesn't mean it's no longer an LMG.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                In that the "light" in "light machine gun" doesn't refer to how much it weighs—the PKM weighs less than a Minimi as well, but nobody calls it an LMG. Light machine guns are chambered in "light" calibers like 5.56 and 7.62×39, in contrast to medium/general-purpose MGs that are chambered in real rifle calibers and heavy MGs that are chambered in real rifle calibers (at minimum) and are generally fired from fixed mounts.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                >the PKM weighs less than a Minimi as well
                No the fuck it doesn't it's like a 20lbs gun. M249 is like 15lbs
                > the "light" in "light machine gun" doesn't refer to how much it weighs
                How does it feel to be wrong?
                > A light machine gun (LMG) is a light-weight machine gun designed to be operated by a single infantryman
                > early light machine guns fired full-powered rifle cartridges, modern light machine guns often fire smaller-caliber rifle cartridges than medium machine guns – generally the same intermediate cartridge fired by a service's standard assault rifle

                The new infantry cartridge is the 6.8x51, it IS a full power rifle caliber, but that is not what defines an LMG.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                [...]
                This

                M249 is an LMG because it's using the 5.56 like the M4 and can be used by a single man.

                M250 is also an LMG because it's using the 6.8 like the M5 and can be used by a single man.

                It doesn't matter whether the 6.8 ammo is full powered or not.

                >he said LMG instead of SAW, his argument is invalid
                It's a lighter gun in a more powerful cartridge feeding from shorter belts that the gunner will necessarily carry fewer of due to the size and weight of the ammunition. Even if you accept that modern technology will finally make battle rifles relevant, nothing about the M250's design will magically make it any easier to create worthwhile suppressive fire with less ammo that pushes the gun around more and needs more frequent pauses to reload.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                >nothing about the M250's design will magically make it any easier to create worthwhile suppressive fire
                A more realistic schedule or repair and replacement would.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                This is the Army we're talking about. There are probably M4 buffer springs in service that are older than we are.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                >the PKM weighs less than a Minimi as well
                No the fuck it doesn't it's like a 20lbs gun. M249 is like 15lbs
                > the "light" in "light machine gun" doesn't refer to how much it weighs
                How does it feel to be wrong?
                > A light machine gun (LMG) is a light-weight machine gun designed to be operated by a single infantryman
                > early light machine guns fired full-powered rifle cartridges, modern light machine guns often fire smaller-caliber rifle cartridges than medium machine guns – generally the same intermediate cartridge fired by a service's standard assault rifle

                The new infantry cartridge is the 6.8x51, it IS a full power rifle caliber, but that is not what defines an LMG.

                This

                M249 is an LMG because it's using the 5.56 like the M4 and can be used by a single man.

                M250 is also an LMG because it's using the 6.8 like the M5 and can be used by a single man.

                It doesn't matter whether the 6.8 ammo is full powered or not.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                This is a Madsen gun, the ur-LMG. It does not fire an intermediate cartridge. They're called LMGs because they are considerable lighter than MMGs or HMGs, they can be ported by one man and have an integral bipod.

                >more energy
                >more recoil
                ???
                are you a newfriend or can’t into conceptual physics?

                You don't understand pressure, internal ballistics in general, or the operating principles of gas guns half as well as you think you do.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                >a Hispanicy ass m240 with supressor and optic for less overall weight than a 249.
                I cannot wait to see how fast these flimsy ass things beat themselves to death.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                Schlomo needs to sell parts too.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                FN MAG is fucking sheet metal held together by rivets, because that's how FN did it. Not sure if it's extruded or machined aluminum, but I don't think the frame will be an issue until the retaining pin holes wallow out.

                Not my job, but if it was, I'd be more concernee about chambering a machine gun in a magnum caliber, with supressor, that lacks a quick change barrel.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                >that lacks a quick change barrel
                by request of the army, SIG offers the design with a quick change barrel to other militaries internationally and it was originally part of the XM250 until the army told them to take it out.

              • 5 days ago
                Anonymous

                ffs
                I genuinely feel like drawing random COTS guns and tanks and shit out of a hat would be better than letting the military make its own procurement decisions.

            • 5 days ago
              Anonymous

              The M250 replaces the M249

              Both the M5 and M250 use the same cartridge.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      That's probably how it'll shape up once the M4s get rolled back out in 20-30 years once they find out the hard way that battle rifles were never a good idea and still aren't, but they've said that they're replacing the M4 with this bullshit and I see no reason to doubt them.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      NIG already lost the xm110a1 program to the HK417.

  7. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    yeah

  8. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    It's a steel base brass cartridge that generates 100,000 psi. Which blows my fucking mind. I don't think even the magnum hunting cartridges generate that much; I can't recall seeing anything over 50-60K for any load data I ever looked at. So. Massive felt recoil, massive wear and tear on the working internals, and case separations galore. I find it difficult to believe they'll actually build the fucking thing, much less field it.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      It's because brass starts to fail around 65-70k PSI.

      Below that it expands to fit (and seal) the chamber, then after it shrinks back down (for easy extraction). At higher pressures though the brass expands too much and can rupture and break the seal causing a loss of pressure and potentially damaging your gun, or even you depending how safely the gun was designed.

      The steel head on the new round allows for a higher pressure because the point of failure is at the base of the cap where the pressure is the most extreme, so the steel can much more easily withstand the extra pressure, and making the rest of the cartridge from normal brass still allows the cartridge to expand to seal and contract for extraction

      It's not even really a "new" thing, it's just now a major manufacturer has managed to convince the US military to give it a go. The steel head brass hyrbid cartridge as an idea goes back decades to handloaders.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        Wheres my .280 british 6mm load for an M4A2?

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      Only the military cartridges produce over 80k PSI, and if you actually take 5 seconds to look at the cartridge you'd see that it has a stainless steel base specifically so the case doesn't separate. The all-brass cartridges don't go over 60k PSI.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      >recoil has to do with chamber pressure

      • 5 days ago
        Anonymous

        >more energy
        >more recoil
        ???
        are you a newfriend or can’t into conceptual physics?

        • 5 days ago
          Anonymous

          That's not really how it works, you just adjust the gas piston to allow more gas bypass to reduce how much force is used to cycle the action.

          This is basically the same mass as any gas-piston platform AR-10 type gun, the only changes you need are a stronger bolt face and locking lugs, and a thicker barrel.

          There is no significant difference in recoil compared to say a .308 or 6.5CM AR-10 gun.

  9. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    Would a 6.8 ~110gr round necked into a 556 hybrid case be kinda sick? Could use stanag mags and probably have a higher velocity than 6.8spc.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      It's called .277 Wolverine. It's a wildcat cartridge. 90% of 6.8 SPC for half the cost.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.277_Wolverine

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        >hybrid case
        He was clearly talking about something like .277 Wolverine but running at 80k psi like the NGSW round.

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          That's what they should have done instead of 6.8x51mm

  10. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    I'm pissed they didn't pick 6.5 grendel. It's actually pretty good in a short barrel

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      Why the fuck are you "pissed"?

      They publically said they want 6.8x51 to be a calibre they can refine and develop further over the next several decades. A larger cartridge allows you a MUCH greater capacity to play around with different loadings, different propellents, different pressures, etc, etc. You instead wanted them to use 6.5x39? Why? Because it's your preferred meme caliber? It's fine, but it just doesn't have the case capacity for 80-100k PSI loadings, even if you gave it a steel case head like the 6.8x51 is using, you're still MUCH more limited by the cartridge capacity potential.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      Go look at an RDP belt, gompare it to any disintegrating link belt, and you'll understand why 6.5 grendel , with it's .220 Russian parent case, wouldn't make the cut.

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      >I'm sad they picked something that could push 140gr @ 3200fps from a 16" barrel rather a garbage round doing 130gr 2500 fps from a 24" with a shitty case head and shape because it's based off of faggy .30 commie

  11. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    Sig is gonna make a killing off of this. They basically own the US Army

    • 6 days ago
      Anonymous

      so it was ok when colt did it?

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        Hell, if people really hate SIG they'll hope this is how it goes, we all saw how Colt fell flat once they realized their cash cow was finally done with.

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          >thinks colt dell flat recently
          moron, colt has been garbage for 50 years, it gets drained of assets, sold, then bought up for someone else to run some sort of tax scam on it, rinse and repeat.
          It's happened like 7 times since the 60s.

      • 6 days ago
        Anonymous

        how tf did they go bankrupt

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          they assumed the military HAD to buy from them.

        • 6 days ago
          Anonymous

          They went bankrupt basically in the 60s or 70s, name was sold to some finance firm, who fleeced it, and sold it, and so on so fourth.
          It was constantly being used for scenes and scams then sold, it's government contracts the only thing keeping it afloat on paper.

  12. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    They should've just went with an AR chambered in .243
    Give it an 80gr projectile with a steel core, would probably go around 3,000 fps out of an 16 inch barrel.

  13. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    It's innovative in terms of design if not technology, like building a mass produced car with a V-10 engine. It's also stupid and embezzlement is probably involved somewhere, like building a mass produced car with a V-10 engine.

  14. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    it's just modern real fuckin nato 7.62x51 but we're too proud to admit we fucked up by moving to intermediate calibers

  15. 6 days ago
    Anonymous

    >has the muzzle energy of a 7.62 nato
    >is it a meme?
    lmao

  16. 5 days ago
    Anonymous

    Its a money spending scheme and a way to have the military use a weapon most civilians are unfamiliar with in a cartridge no one else has, kind of like pla saying 5.8 is supperior to 5.56 but it just makes it impossible for a civilian to get ammo and a gun

    • 5 days ago
      Anonymous

      If they wanted a weapon that most civilians were unfamiliar with they wouldn't have gone with the MCX Spear.

    • 5 days ago
      Anonymous

      They would've gone for the True Velocity composite cartridge bullpup or the Textron polymer-cased telescoped cartridges in an AR if that were the case.

      Going with a brass/steel hybrid cartridge in an standard .308 AR sized gun is about as close to the existing M4 you can get while retaining the larger 6.8x51 round.

  17. 5 days ago
    Anonymous

    some General wanted it to cement his legacy, put together the right powerpoints with cherrypicked data, ignored all counter-arguments and here we are

    anyone who thinks it has ANYTHING to do with real need is a fucking retard who has never spent a day in the Pentagon where these decisions are made

  18. 5 days ago
    Anonymous

    No. Just buy a 270.

    • 5 days ago
      Anonymous

      No

  19. 5 days ago
    Anonymous

    is this considered an intermediate or full sized?

    • 5 days ago
      Anonymous

      Depends who you ask

      > The Army chose the 6.8 mm round following the publication of the 2017 Small Arms Ammunition Configuration Study.
      > the 2017 report called for an intermediate caliber, something falling in the 6 mm range.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      It's basically a magnum caliber—depending on the numbers you look at, it's somwhere up around .270 Win or .270 WSM.

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