Is there a valid reason that the US isn't giving Ukraine metric fucktons of Abrams? >the US needs them

Is there a valid reason that the US isn't giving Ukraine metric fucktons of Abrams?
>the US needs them
no they dont, they have thousands and thousands and can easily make more
>they dont want the tech to fall into russian hands
already lost monkey model Abrams before, they could just give them older versions
>hurr it takes 6 months to train a crew
then why the fuck aren't they doing it yesterday? its already been 6 months into the war ffs

The only thing I'm seeing is that the US doesn't want the worthlessness of the Abrams exposed, or that they want Ukraine to lose, or not win immediately

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >not win immediately
    This is probably it, Russia needs to lose in sync with their copium production both to maximize damage and reduce chance of nuclear war

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Well put

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is basically what's dictating the pace of the war.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    it's too heavy for ukrainian bridges
    it's too heavy for ukrainian mud
    the US doesn't have advanced cope cage technology
    and it can't win the turret tossing competition anyway

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's 50% this shit, 50% holy fucking shit spinning up an entire logistics chain for them would be a nightmare, the only viable option would be to literally erect a US Abrams regimental service base directly on the Polish side of the border and do literally everything for them. Ukraine could very easily field the Abrams but that shit will take the better part of a year, unless we're willing to integrate US contractors directly into their armor units to handle keeping them running.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >holy fucking shit spinning up an entire logistics chain for them would be a nightmare

        Logistics moron. Those fucks are a strain even on murrican logicstics, how to fuck is ukraine supposed to make that shit work when they have difficulties getting even regular fucking truck to frontlines?

        Time to train not just crews but the people who maintain them.

        Americans love talking about how good their military is at logistics but as soon as it involves moving a couple hundred Abrams to Europe it's suddenly a big issue.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >America spent hundreds of billions of dollars creating one of the greatest ever logistics machines the world has ever known.
          >They should just let some dumb fucks in eastern europe use it as much as they want just coz.
          Yukes really are the new morons.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Because thats a whole unnecessary strain on their logistics system when HIMARS just showed they are an entire league above Russia with just a few special splodey boom tubes. Abrams works for America, that doesn’t mean it’ll work elsewhere, and its not like Ukraine is short of tanks either.

          >t. (you) hungry retard
          American logistics for American shit are indeed the best, but you can’t translate that onto an entirely different country that isn’t even a NATO member. Better to give them stuff that isn’t nearly as costly or training intensive and just as effective for their overall strategic and operational goals. They’re facing off against Russia so its not like Ukraine is dealing with some advanced space army or some shit.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        They already operate T-80s which are turbine powered.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Ukraine has entire divisions of captured T80s now because the Russians couldn't support them and they would just bail out of them when they broke down/ran out of gas

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Logistics moron. Those fucks are a strain even on murrican logicstics, how to fuck is ukraine supposed to make that shit work when they have difficulties getting even regular fucking truck to frontlines?

        bullshit. they can cope with arty, bushmasters, everything

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >arty, bushmasters
          Yeah, but those things just werk™ unlike the deadly meme machine that is the Abrams.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Cope thread, everyone ignore

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      You want more Ukrainians to die. Fuck you vatnik moron.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >then why the fuck aren't they doing it yesterday?
    Welcome to the military.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Logistics moron. Those fucks are a strain even on murrican logicstics, how to fuck is ukraine supposed to make that shit work when they have difficulties getting even regular fucking truck to frontlines?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      You mean to tell me they can't spin up one or two depots with all the trillions of dollars of aid we give them?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Probably could, but that would take all of it and Ukraine has more sane targets for that money than murrican outdated memetanks.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >the trillions of dollars of aid
        man i wish it was trillions

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >need to supply completely different 120mm NATO tank ammunition
    >need to supply parts for a tank with a completely different engine, transmission, electrical system, etc
    >need to train mechanics on how to maintain and repair these completely different tanks from the Soviet MBTs they're used to
    >need to train crews on a different platform while also training up human loaders that haven't been a thing on Soviet tanks since the T-62

    these reasons among others are why we probably won't be seeing AFU operating Abrams any time soon

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      that all sounds like defeatist excuses

      option A: give them 200 Abrams, start training crews and creating logistics infrastructure now, maybe itll be ready in a year

      option B: do nothing, ukraine has no tanks

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Russia is already giving Ukraine hundreds of fully operational tanks with all the ammo and spare parts they'll ever need, so for now NATO tanks can wait.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        We should at least begin training on them.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Ukrainians already have a shit ton of tanks both working and to scavenge for parts.
        They need more artillery and more APCs/IFVs more than anything else

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        200 tanks won't do much. That's barely 4 battalions, you might be able to stretch that out to two brigades if they've got enough IFVs to support them, which I doubt.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          200 western MBTs are worth 1000 T-72 shitboxes (including 'modern' T-90s).

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >1000 T-72 shitboxes (including 'modern' T-90s).
            Funnily enough that's about how many Ukraine had at the start of the war.
            Didn't seem to do much good either.

            So thanks for proving my point that the yukes would only embarass GD by getting them all blowed up within a week.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      they'll figure it you precious gays

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >valid reason
    It's not valid but the reason is that the US administration is filled with pussies. If it were up to me we would have dumped all the old shit we have sitting out in the desert on the ukies months ago.

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The West doesn't want Ukraine to win immediately or decisively, the aim was always to bleed Russia dry and hoping all the battlefield losses translate into Putler being evicted and getting Mussolini'd.

    All the logistics and training for X amount of months talk is bullshit, Ukrainians are already using a hodge podge of ground vehicles and weapon systems.

    If they can train Pvt. Hernandez to drive and fire a tank in weeks, why can't Pvt. Mykhailo?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >the aim was always to bleed Russia dry and hoping all the battlefield losses translate into Putler being evicted and getting Mussolini'd.
      Yeah that's retarded and will never happen. Meanwhile Ukrainians are dying every day so that Joe Biden can sip melted ice cream.

      Putin and the Russians have proven themselves to be shit talking fucks with nothing to back it up. We should be running sorties over Ukraine 24/7. Running their logistics with our own military. What the fuck is Russia gonna do about it? Start a nuclear war?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >What the fuck is Russia gonna do about it? Start a nuclear war?
        Don’t back a monke into a corner. When his pride is shattered, a nuclear chimpout is highly likely.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    War tourist. Go away. Your home board is either /int/ or 4chan and you are also not American. This is an American board. Americans own guns. You don’t. Foreigner.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I'm an American. I don't know how many guns I own because I lost count.

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    You've had enough. Sink or Swim hohol.

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Time to train not just crews but the people who maintain them.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    They wouldn't get anything out of them.
    Ukraine and Russia utilize their tanks as direct fire artillery and that's it. They don't change anything. As soon as either side advances they will get assfucked by ATGMs since they love to just drive in a column until the spearhead enters the turret throwing contest.
    You need a competent military with an intact and well oiled communications and logistical network to stage an armored offensive.
    Multiple platoons, IFVs at the flanks, artillery ready to engage, scouts at the front, gunships on overlook and a fuckload of trucks and recovery vehicles in the rear.
    Ukraine can't pull that off. They may wear fancy donated gear now but they are by no means a Western military.

    They also don't have pic related and that's the main reason.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Ukraine and Russia utilize their tanks as direct fire artillery and that's it
      ukranian has been using them as maneuver elements

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        We’ve seen them in action.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Drive 15 tanks through abandoned territory
        oh wow

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Ukraine and Russia utilize their tanks as direct fire artillery and that's it. They don't change anything
      obviously they do
      >You need a competent military with an intact and well oiled communications and logistical network to stage an armored offensive.
      You're saying Ukraine isn't a competent military with intact comms and logistics?
      >Ukraine can't pull that off. They may wear fancy donated gear now but they are by no means a Western military.
      dude, they have a ridiculously good military that is kicking the ass of a superpower and is supported by the full might of the West

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >those ears
      is he a devolved elf or an evolved human?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        They gene spliced the spermatozoons of Rommel and Guderian and artificially fertilized a savant woman from Iceland.
        During and operation he walks around the command room beet red with a 42°c fever wearing a loincloth, occasionally moving tank platoons on the map in maneuvers not comprehensible by mere mortals.
        If he is up against overwhelming odds Karla Mengele, a clone of Joseph Mengele, injects him with a cocktail of Pervitin, Testosterone, epinephrin, stem cells and places him in an ice bath.
        It is said that he won all war games, switching sides only to outsmart himself out of reflex.

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because it isn't until like like 3 months ago that we realized this would be a conventional war, and by that point it was clear that training them up and sending them Abrams probably wouldn't be the most effective thing we could do.
    >The only thing I'm seeing is that the US doesn't want the worthlessness of the Abrams exposed, or that they want Ukraine to lose, or not win immediately
    lol okay

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    would off the russians too quickly, gotta bleed 'em for a while first.

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because the Yukes would just charge across open ground and get them all blown to bits by arty spam like they did with the tanks they already had.
    Besides, I thought "the MBT was obsolete" now.

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    There isn't a valid reason for the US to be giving anything at all to Ukraine.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      T. Putler

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The anglos owe Ukraine gibs
        Why?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Killing Russians is politically and morally righteous

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Fund our actual genocide America
            Well, it wouldn't be the first time.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Russia is one of americas main geopolitical rivals. Destabilizing them is in americas interest.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                We are already sending 40 billion. Anything more, and any direct involvement of USA forces, is more than we are willing to commit. Escalation of this conflict can only hurt us. As it stands, Russia is already losing.
                In any case, a protracted meat grinder war is far better for crushing a country than a quick, decisive loss.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I’m okay with $40 billion but not $40.1 billion

                This is just stupid. The sooner the war ends, the sooner the global economy normalizes. Sending more equipment saves money in the long run.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >you can't afford not to give us money
                lol

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                The U..S. in in it for more like $75 billion or so. Or, over ~$80 bil by now? Lost track. There have been numerous packages, some a few hundred million, some a few billion, here & there, sometimes three or more a week for months. The $40 bil package was news because it was such a single large number, but the U.S. has about doubled that over the last 100 days, including some stuff before the $40 bil package. There were four or five packages that ranged from about $3 bil to about $8 bil plus a bunch of smaller 300 or 500 mil packages every few days.field.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Russia is one of americas main geopolitical rivals
                30 years ago it was.
                Today it's the UK but it's bigger and doesn't speak english.
                The only reason Russia isn't in the fold is because Hillary Clinton is an unbelievable mega-bitch and Putin wouldn't put up with her shit when she was first lady, and was even less interested when she was secretary of taking bribes from Russian energy companies for mining rights in North America, or as CNN called it "secretary of State."

                It's the same reason Turkey is playing both sides, she tried to coup erdogan.

                In the meantime, wouldn't it have been nice to have Russia as an ally against China, but of course it won't be her kids that have to fight the actual war coming.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >she tried to coup erdogan
                >he thinks the coup was real
                Haha remember when the turkish air force initiated a coup attempt against Erdogan and he spent the entire duration of it in the presidential plane doing circles and the air force sent one (1) F16 with no weapons to go up and ask him sternly to land and then Erdogan got to send all of his rivals to jail forever?

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I think that might have been the Hillary one.
                Basically, because he's a pro, he infiltrated the coup with people who started the coup early promising CIA support etc etc.
                Then they roll their tanks out of baracks and find loyal tanks there waiting for them.
                The CNN coverage was fucking gold, they went from "the people have risen up against turkish leader err-du-ghan"
                To "what went wrong in this failed coup against the turkish leadership."
                To "President err-doh-whan has successfully somethinged turkish hardliners, is this a sign he's softening" in the space of about 12 hours.

                It was almost as good as the time they tried to figure out how Zalensky and Putin didn't actually have the same first name even though Vladimir is pronounced identically in both Ruthenian and Russian.

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Holy fuck the amount of retard ITT is way too high.

  18. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Not enough time to train crews and support personel, bridges and roads too weak, use too much fuel, etc

  19. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because politicians and bean counters say no. Ukraine is winning by not losing and that is sufficient to bleed Russia white.

  20. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    They want Ukraine to win the the bare minimum I guess.

    >if they can roll Russians with humvees, why give them Abrams

  21. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because Abraps have an absolutely fucktardedly huge logistics footprint that makes it really hard for anyone not America to sustain their deployment

  22. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Real answer: It would look too much like USA vs Russia on international TV if Abrams are fighting in the frontlines vs vatniks

    Other reasons:
    >logistics, spare parts etc
    >debatable whether it’s really worth giving to them or better off just giving more javelins and rocket artillery
    >from that point, the reason why American armor is so effective is because of the training, leadership, c&c, support network etc. USA tank battalions would still be extremely effective with less tanks as long as they still had the same ability to communicate and see which units nearby are friend & foe. Ukr isn’t near this level

    But it’s mostly optics

  23. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because fuck giving eurofags any more of my tax dollars

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >obliterating Russians isn't worth a couple hundred bucks at most
      What are you, fuckin' gay?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Why aren't you more racist towards Russians
        Why the fuck would he be? None of us can tell the difference between a Russian and a Yuke to save our lives.
        Also we've be absolutely bombarded with the "white people bad" meme for like a decade now.

        Why don't you call us when Ukraine goes to war with Syria or something.

  24. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Patreaus said the main reasons were:

    1. they are too heavy
    2. they are too complex to just jump into and get going with due to the engine
    3. other components require a lot of training to use/maintain
    so: complexity and logistics

    he was advocating for Leos to be giving since they are a lot simpler to run/maintain, they're stocks of them over there already, they are a bit lighter

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