Is stopping power really a meme?

Is stopping power really a meme?

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Define stopping power.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Greatest probability of incapacitation with least rounds fired
      Alternatively, ratio of shots fired to % chance incapacitation
      "Stopping probability" sounds gay

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Essentially irrelevant compared to shot placement.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I mean yes. Boolets only work when they hit the guy

          Nothing (civillian legal)can garuntee immediate, physiological incapacitation without hiting the brain, or upper CNS, and of striking the brain, or upper CNS, even a .22lr will stop them.
          As for body hits, there are 2 types of stops, physiological, and psychological.
          Psycological: can be near instant stoppage, has more to do with the targets mentality than caliber, some evidence to support that larger flashes and louder guns can increase these slightly.
          Physiological stoppage: to the body this means oxygen stops going to the brain, with bullets this usually necessitates stopping blood from going to the brain, by severing a major blood vessel, such as the aorta is the fastest, bit can still take 5-10 seconds, heart impact 8-20 seconds (depending on where in the heart is hit) and so on so fourth.
          The ability to damage these structures is first and foremost caused by penetration

          Checked though this still seems to support the idea that bigger+faster>smaller+slower otherwise everyone would still just carry a 1903 Hammerless

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Speed in and of itself doesn't add much.
            If appropriate penetration is achieved, then considerations should be frontal area, amount of rounds you can carry, speed you can accurately put rounds on target, etc.
            It's widely accepted that velocity isn't doing anything for wounding untill 2200 FPS+, and even then the additional wounding you get is minimal compared to the crushing of the permanent wound cavity.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Is stopping power really a meme?
      No

      >Define stopping power.
      (Rate of Energy transfer) * (momentum)

      There are two critical factors here and one is the size of surface area available for transference of energy. The second is the momentum or how long that energy will continue to be transfered. This is why large high energy boolits explode people and stop them immediately by exploding them and gimmicy crap like intermediate calibres relying on range dependent tubling, yawing and fragmentation effects repeatedly fail or struggle to penetrate cover.

      Essentially irrelevant compared to shot placement.

      >Essentially irrelevant compared to shot placement.
      Not if sufficient energy is transferred to ctear a temporary cavity greater than 24 inches in diameter and explode the target or remove the limb. AR fags will fail to comprehend.

      Nothing (civillian legal)can garuntee immediate, physiological incapacitation without hiting the brain, or upper CNS, and of striking the brain, or upper CNS, even a .22lr will stop them.
      As for body hits, there are 2 types of stops, physiological, and psychological.
      Psycological: can be near instant stoppage, has more to do with the targets mentality than caliber, some evidence to support that larger flashes and louder guns can increase these slightly.
      Physiological stoppage: to the body this means oxygen stops going to the brain, with bullets this usually necessitates stopping blood from going to the brain, by severing a major blood vessel, such as the aorta is the fastest, bit can still take 5-10 seconds, heart impact 8-20 seconds (depending on where in the heart is hit) and so on so fourth.
      The ability to damage these structures is first and foremost caused by penetration

      >Nothing (civilian legal)can guarantee immediate, physiological incapacitation
      577 Snider does due to its Geneva convention banned gas compressive explosive effect original design.

      https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-review-of-the-red-cross/article/abs/humanitarian-bullets-and-mankillers-revisiting-the-history-of-arms-regulation-in-the-late-nineteenth-century/CE37D45DF5C7A38F741EB4DE55E01FCF

      International Review of the Red Cross , First View , pp. 1 - 24

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Development of the hollow-point bullet
        https://www.samilitaryhistory.org/vol172tw.html
        The 1860s also marked the commencement of the European arms race which was largely initiated by the Prussians, who had introduced their Dreyse breech-loading rifle. Pressed for time in the race to adopt a serviceable breech-loader, the British converted their muzzleloading Enfields into what became known as the Snider rifle. The .577 of an inch calibre remained, but the lead bullet was incorporated into a self-contained brass cartridge. Keen to increase velocity and accuracy, the British set about lightening and balancing this bullet. This was partly achieved by punching a cavity in the nose and spinning the lead over to seal it. Enter the hollow-point bullet!

        This new bullet had a velocity of 1 250 feet per second (380.8 m/s) and muzzle energy of 1 666 foot pounds. Its effects upon striking flesh and bone were dramatic. Its soft lead flattened, facilitating retention in the body with a deadly transfer of kinetic energy. The chamber in its nose was thus also compressed, causing the trapped air to burst out with explosive force creating a devastating wound which immediately killed or incapacitated its victim - a decided 'improvement' over its earlier version as used in the Enfield muzzle-loader! This bullet contained no explosive substance and thus, despite its explosive effect, was entirely acceptable in terms of the St Petersburg Declaration. There was consequently no objection from any other nation (Hamilton; pp 1 250-1).

        >TLDR ARG fags know fuck all. Stopping power is not a meme. Area of energy transference and momentum matter. Size and Mass matter. Speed alone is not enough.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >This is why large high energy boolits explode people
        Hello noguns

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Did he shoot them in the dick? I can't even see where the shots landed.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Center mass.
            It's not a fucking movie where you explode with blood, as a matter of fact the energy wave will drive blood away from the wound into the tissue

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I was standing behind a man once who was shot with a centre fire rifle, probably a 8mm mauser. It hit him roughly in the hip region. The plume of blood from the wound went back a good 2/3 feet. It removed his left leg and he died. Tell me what your observations are?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >8mm muaser, with all the energy of a half loaded .308 win, blew a man's leg off
                KEK
                E
                k

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yup. You all sit here and circle jerk each other with wrong now because IV888 and ARG exist..

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yeah, I'm not the tard that thinks a 50 will explode someone - but you can typically see movement around the impact site, and I didn't see anything that indicated an exit wound. Video is super compressed, which isn't helping.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ah well, in a higher quality version you might, you have to give up pixels to make a webm that PrepHole doesn't freak about.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >commonly carried self defense weapons
                Yeah. It's widely known there's a difference between pistols and rifles, so widely known it's not brought up except by the most socially inept spergs.

                >continues to spout noguns underage nonsense
                Cool

                It does not have to be a 50 at all. Any .30+ cal CF rifle with whip off limbs easily. You war virgins should hop on over to Ukraine.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's cool, what's this have to do with pistols?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I forgot about all the 110lb deer that get blown to pieces by .30-06

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                6.5mm says hi

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I own more guns than you. I am well aware of the long standing PrepHole meme regarding stopping powah which bled from inarticulate morons like IV8888 top here. Reread what I posted and learn something. Have you ever seen anything hit by a 12.7mm by the way? I have. Exploded is about right.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >continues to spout noguns underage nonsense
            Cool

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Development of the hollow-point bullet
        https://www.samilitaryhistory.org/vol172tw.html
        The 1860s also marked the commencement of the European arms race which was largely initiated by the Prussians, who had introduced their Dreyse breech-loading rifle. Pressed for time in the race to adopt a serviceable breech-loader, the British converted their muzzleloading Enfields into what became known as the Snider rifle. The .577 of an inch calibre remained, but the lead bullet was incorporated into a self-contained brass cartridge. Keen to increase velocity and accuracy, the British set about lightening and balancing this bullet. This was partly achieved by punching a cavity in the nose and spinning the lead over to seal it. Enter the hollow-point bullet!

        This new bullet had a velocity of 1 250 feet per second (380.8 m/s) and muzzle energy of 1 666 foot pounds. Its effects upon striking flesh and bone were dramatic. Its soft lead flattened, facilitating retention in the body with a deadly transfer of kinetic energy. The chamber in its nose was thus also compressed, causing the trapped air to burst out with explosive force creating a devastating wound which immediately killed or incapacitated its victim - a decided 'improvement' over its earlier version as used in the Enfield muzzle-loader! This bullet contained no explosive substance and thus, despite its explosive effect, was entirely acceptable in terms of the St Petersburg Declaration. There was consequently no objection from any other nation (Hamilton; pp 1 250-1).

        >TLDR ARG fags know fuck all. Stopping power is not a meme. Area of energy transference and momentum matter. Size and Mass matter. Speed alone is not enough.

        I have never seen such effort for such a worthless, inaccurate, fantasy post in my life. Holy shit what a waste of time.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        bro, there 3 ways a bullet “stops” you
        >Psychological
        Panic from being shot or just crumbling under pain. Someone who is very determined or high as fuck won’t be stopping from this.
        >CNS hit
        You lose control of your body and you drop like a sack of potatoes
        >Mechanical
        This is pretty much what most of the “stopping power” rests on. Poke holes in body so you lose blood pressure and pass out.
        Or more directly, you destroy muscle groups or bone, which your average non-big bore handgun caliber isn’t really capable of doing easily in only 1-2 shots.

        So unless you score a CNS shot and the guy drops instantly, the rule of thumb with stopping power is usually keep shooting until the person stops being a threat or runs out of your range. If you REALLY want to mull over “stopping power”, that would apply more to a Bear gun since that situation does put more emphasis on power of penetration and energy transfer to, worst case scenario, a single shot.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Getting shot usually stops you from doing something.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    thats a stupid graph and anyone who posts it automatically outs themselves as someone who not only is lacking firearm's knowledge, but actual basic intelligence. Graph was made by an anti-AR15 boomer as well. Using carefully nitpicked statistics.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      STOPPIN POWAH can make a difference but individual skill is leagues more important. You also see a much bigger difference in STOPPIN POWAH when comparing pistols to rifles rather than comparing pistols to other pistols.

      im pretty confident that the AR15 video is satire. shitty, unfunny satire, but still satire.
      I don't see how this study is using 'nitpicked statistics'
      http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power
      >Over a 10-year period, I kept track of stopping power results from every shooting I could find. I talked to the participants of gunfights, read police reports, attended autopsies, and scoured the newspapers, magazines, and Internet for any reliable accounts of what happened to the human body when it was shot.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        your mind doesn't let you accept the cringe so you have to cope by saying it's satire.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Stoping power
    Biggest meme. If it comes from this planet and is mortal 22LR is fine.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, and the graph you posted is based in "data" collected in the early 80s, self reported from police officers, ie: garbage.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nothing (civillian legal)can garuntee immediate, physiological incapacitation without hiting the brain, or upper CNS, and of striking the brain, or upper CNS, even a .22lr will stop them.
    As for body hits, there are 2 types of stops, physiological, and psychological.
    Psycological: can be near instant stoppage, has more to do with the targets mentality than caliber, some evidence to support that larger flashes and louder guns can increase these slightly.
    Physiological stoppage: to the body this means oxygen stops going to the brain, with bullets this usually necessitates stopping blood from going to the brain, by severing a major blood vessel, such as the aorta is the fastest, bit can still take 5-10 seconds, heart impact 8-20 seconds (depending on where in the heart is hit) and so on so fourth.
    The ability to damage these structures is first and foremost caused by penetration

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Is stopping power really a meme?
    No. Boomers overstated in, and eventually in reaction zoomers totally refused to acknowledge it. In reality, even the phrase 'stopping power' betrays a misunderstanding of it, but big boy boolet does kill deader than anemic baby boolet, excluding a variety of factors.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this.

      imagine getting run through with a .22 inch thick metal poker. You're probably fucking dead. A .22LR is even worse than that. While any common commercial caliber is perfectly capable of killing you and killing you instantly if placed on a vital organ like the heart, you're still more likely to be insta-fucked when its a god damn bastard sword instead of a kebab stick. You might still survive the sword to the gut for a few minutes, and you might instantly die from a kebab stick through the brain.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this.

      imagine getting run through with a .22 inch thick metal poker. You're probably fucking dead. A .22LR is even worse than that. While any common commercial caliber is perfectly capable of killing you and killing you instantly if placed on a vital organ like the heart, you're still more likely to be insta-fucked when its a god damn bastard sword instead of a kebab stick. You might still survive the sword to the gut for a few minutes, and you might instantly die from a kebab stick through the brain.

      This seems to be the common sense answer. Getting hit by a truck is undeniably worse than getting hit by a moped even though neither is desirable.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The graph is trash; Were all the victims shot in the same place, from the same length barrel with the same ammo? Did they all have the same body type, same clothing/protection? It already admits its BS by not factoring the number of shots. I guarantee you the vast majority of the 25 and .32 stops are from Brazilians mag dumping into the back of someone head who was already on the ground.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    tbqh no. I find anything below 10mm fucking pathetic. literal woman tier.
    >b-b-but my le wrist le hurts!!11!
    if you can't handle a real gun, you don't deserve any gun. acceptable shooting starts at 460S&W.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >shoot someone 7 times with 9mm
    >they don't go down because it's only a 13% chance

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is why I never leave home without a 33rd gloxtendo and 2 more in my belt just in case

      this.

      imagine getting run through with a .22 inch thick metal poker. You're probably fucking dead. A .22LR is even worse than that. While any common commercial caliber is perfectly capable of killing you and killing you instantly if placed on a vital organ like the heart, you're still more likely to be insta-fucked when its a god damn bastard sword instead of a kebab stick. You might still survive the sword to the gut for a few minutes, and you might instantly die from a kebab stick through the brain.

      One .32ACP to a (hemophiliac, admittedly) Archduke's neck was enough to start the World Wars

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >regardless of number of hits
    any self defense with a 44 mag is highly likely to be less tottal hits than a 9 mil, and if you compare the two i bet anything that a 44 is like 2 percent of instances of defense. we need real numbers here

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The numbers are probably even less favorable to the small light calibers for failure to stop with the first shot

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    if you anticipate you're going to be fighting bears or crackheads or crackhead bears then no you should take it into consideration

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >if you anticipate you're going to be fighting bears or crackheads or crackhead bears then no you should take it into consideration
      Wrong wrong wrong. The snider for example is absolutely devastating at stopping MEN not elephants not tigers not bears MEN. On an elephant it would just produce a horrific non lethal injury, you would be better off with a bard cast in that instance. You need to know what you are stopping. In General any rifle round with a mass in excess of 160 grains and an approximate 7-8mm diameter is the minimum for effective stopping on a man size target at the typical 2800-3000+ speeds. . Anything less is inferior and seriously so. Of course ideally you want more, overkill if you like. 58 at roughly 500 grains is probably as much as would ever be needed practically. Of course in both not just a hollow point but a cavity in the central axis of the projectile is required. This generates the compressive gas explosion effect and this vastly expands the surface area of the energy transferring material along with the hollow point. Yes there is stopping power and smaller calibres don't have much of it.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Right, let me just pull my snider from my kydex anus holster.
        >thread about pistols
        >but muh rifles
        Never change PrepHole.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          about pistols
          O sorry I did not realise you were talking about toys. Here watch this.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >commonly carried self defense weapons
            Yeah. It's widely known there's a difference between pistols and rifles, so widely known it's not brought up except by the most socially inept spergs.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Incapacitation Failure Regardless of # of Hits
    This infograph means nothing.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Obviously not all handgun calibers suck equally as police (and some military officers) this time last century were using .38spl, .32ACP or 9x18Mak and all have upgraded to modern 9mm, usually +P loadings, with some agencies using 5.7x28

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