Is it possible we're all underestimating the immediate impact the F16 will have?

Is it possible we're all underestimating the immediate impact the F16 will have?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    A slight overestimate from that guy, F16s aren't invisible like he claims. But to quote the vatniks "plane is plane, if work is good DA?"

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It depends if its armed or not or if it has other radar reducing upgrades. The f-18 naked has the same exact Radar reflection as the su-57

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The f-18 naked has the same exact Radar reflection as the su-57
        So literally frick all

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Su-57 will be 10 to 100 times less stealthy than the F-35 depending on the angle.
        https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com/2022/09/26/su-57-radar-scattering-simulation/

        So it is not true that the Su-57 is the same as the F-18, the F-18 is 1000 times less stealthy than the F-35. An old patent saying the Su-57 would be as stealthy as the F-18 does not mean the final shape turned out that way.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The Su-57 will be

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Even the Mig-31 has a radar and missiles with much more range than the F-16.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Source: I just got fricked in the ass by my glavset manager.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Hey moron, an F-14 would also out-range an F-16's radar

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you don't even need to source that... it's something everyone knows, it's an interceptor from a bygone era

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    16 aircraft can only do so much, regardless of how well they work.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >16 aircraft
      Is this a stupid play on words or ...? Both the Netherlands (18) and Denmark (19) each already promised more than that last year, not to mention everyone else.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        IIRC there will only be 16 F-16s in Ukraine at least until late 2025

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >source - my ass

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >IIRC
          you do not.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's already almost three times the amount of operational Su-24's Ukraine has. And we've seen what Ukraine has done with them.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >That's already almost three times the amount of operational Su-24's Ukraine has
        [citation needed]

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You'll only need to shoot a few Russian aircraft down before they start freaking out and stop flying near the front.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the f16 operates well within the range of an s300/s400 so their impact will be negligible until proper sead is done

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Good thing the ukies are blowing up one of those batteries every couple of days then
      That said, if they perform as well against planes as they do against everything else then that's not actually going to make a noticeable difference

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Planes seem to be the one thing the S-series is good at. Theyve basically suppressed the ukranian airforce for the entire war and relegated them to storm shadow launches

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What are the odds of them getting an early run of AIM-260s for field testing?

    Seriously asking. I don't know how much of a spicy meatball an AIM-260 would be if one is captured intact or even if the remains are analyzed.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Functionally 0. Ukes are getting old stuff first. US would only ever possibly consider it if they were 100% sure AD was non-existent.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's about what I figured.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Leaving aside the potential fallout if China got any data whatsoever from that AIM-260, even a blurry photo: why play an ace when a two will do? AIM-120 D block is well suited to the job at hand.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I hope no radars will be harmed in the making of this moving picture show.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nobody is flying above the treeline with all the SAMs anyway. Any jet is going to be used to lob standoff shit from well behind the front line. Little to no practical impact.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not even for a quick weasel type beat?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The F-16s that do SEAD atleast for the usaf are specialized block 50/52D. They can still do SEAD but not in effective manner. ATACMS is doing a good enough job on its own.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They will be used to shoot missiles and bombs from far away and maybe, maybe intercept migs.
    Doubt we'll see any dog fights... but imagine if we did...

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There is not enough F-16 to actually challenge russians in the air.
    They will have strategic impact that right now only ukrainain aircraft capable of launching strategic weapons are Su-24s, and theres just few of them around.
    Appearance of dozen+ extra launch platforms means ukraine will be able launch significantly bigger strikes (assuming they have the missiles) , and when it comes to breaching air defence, saturation massively increases percentage of misiles that get through.
    Say you have 16 storm shadows , but due to lack of airframes you can only launch 8 for a single strike . Lets optimistically say russian s-400 battery can catch five of them before they reach the target. If you launch two separate strikes of 8, total six of your missiles will make it through. If you launch all 16 in one go, you'll get 11 hits - thats almost double the amount of targets served for the same expediture of missiles.
    F-16 is no wunderwaffle, but as long as they are fitted to carry shit like storm shadow the hedgehog, they will be a massive headache for russkies.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How the frick would F16 be invisible to any radar.
    What is this shitty thread?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's a bait, aimed at the Russians. These are SEAD jets. They WANT the Russians to try to 'nuh-uh!' and turn their equipment on. They're such easily goaded morons that it's not unreasonable to believe this would work.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That wouldn't be the dumbest thing that happened this war.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The presence of AMRAAM armed F-16s means Russian aviation has to push further away from the front or commit to attacking them, right now they can just bully SARH only Ukie fighters at will. If being ambushed by surprise Patriot deployments was bad, this is like that but the battery can change place every hour

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    F-16s are very fast accelerating, but their top speed is average. Not that top speed means dick-all anyway. But F-16s are absolutely able to be seen on radar. And while AMRAAMs are great, they are not above the missiles that Russia has. A beyond-visual-range missile fight between Ukrainian F-16s and Russias various 4th gen fighters will be a fair fight, about 50/50. SU-57 does play into it since Russia only has about 5-10 of those frickers in service, and probably use them exclusively to defend key locations inside Russia.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The F16 cant even get into a BVR fight with a Russian jet right now, because they are operating within the Umbrella of an S400

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        True most russian planes should be shot down before the F-16 even gets in the air with that around.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If Russian jets try to encroach further into Ukraine they can. And the F-16 might be used on wild-weasel missions to detect where SAM sites are, and either avoid them or take them out by other means.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There's no point baiting SAM sites with F-16s when drones can do that and the 16 subsequently kill the site with standoff weapons. SEAD is about using systems of systems to kill SAMs.

          SEAD F-16s with AGM-88 are not as bait (that's an obsolete Wild Weasel way of doing business) but for shooting over expendable bait. Making a drone spoof an F-16 or other larger radar signature would be a fine way of expending enemy missiles with or without killing the launcher.

          Multiple systems attacking an S400 site at once could make things interesting.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Drones can only do so much, though. That is evidenced by Ukraine's lack of progress thus far. At some point they are going to have to bring in some more drastic measures if they want to take out the SAMs and enemy jets, and cut off Russia's supply routes by maintaining air superiority from that point on. Wars are won/lost based on logistics and re-supply. Russia has only stuck around because they can just throw more conscripts and weapons at the front lines. Ukraine is playing a losing strategy.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Drones can only do so much, though
              thats probably why anon said
              >Multiple systems attacking an S400 site at once could make things interesting.

              >they are going to have to bring in some more drastic measures if they want to take out the SAMs and enemy jets
              in addition to an ongoing SEAD campaign using ATACMs? that seems to be working for now

              >Wars are won/lost based on logistics and re-supply
              Indeed, and why its good that Ukraine has regular billions of Western cash & hardware gifted to it, whilst Russia has to buy / barter stuff from China/Iran/DPRK.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If S400 can't even handle basic b***h ATACMS missiles what chance is it going to stand against an actual western fighter jet?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >SU-57 does play into it since Russia only has about 5-10
      May I see them?

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I guess I hold an unpopular opinion here, but I think the Su-57 would beat an F-16. Luckily, Russia has what, 20 of them? And probably like 5 of those are flyable lol. The only thing that scares me for them is the S-3/400, but after seeing Ukraine blow up three(?) of them within weeks of receiving ATACMS, I think that threat will be significantly reduced by the time F-16s get there.
    Like everyone else is saying, I don't think Ukraine is going to go crazy with them. They'll play it conservatively because they're still heavily outnumbered and these aren't the most modernized F-16s out there, but assuming the pilots and maintainers have been trained properly I think they'll do great.

    ...I wish we sent them a few F-22s. Our leftovers from the 90's are already faring well against Russia's modern equipment, imagine the seething if they were up against what might as well be alien technology to them. That would be so fricking funny.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >, 20
      What is this moronic shilling?
      Russia has 4 SU 57 that can fly and attack.
      NOT
      ONE
      MORE

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >, 20
      What is this moronic shilling?
      Russia has 4 SU 57 that can fly and attack.
      NOT
      ONE
      MORE

      Sorry should have read further. I'm moron pls no bully

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >clapped out F-16 that isn't MLU Tape 7.x

    The only thing it'll do better than Mig-29/Su-27 in UkrAF is aur bombing with paveways and Mavericks, though tbf it's still much better air to ground capability than Mig-29/Su-27

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    What non-military illiterate contended that? Reporters and normals should be gassed for expressing opinions on anything technical.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I dunno but why didn't Poland just manufacture more MIG's while the Ukrainians were waiting for their back order of F16's to arrive since that's what a majority of their pilots are already used to flying. Plus I don't think F16's will even be allowed to go to far east less they got shot down and reverse engineered by the Russians.
    Did Warsaw just completely scrap their MIG program after the Cold War ended?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >picrel
      Where does it shit?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don't think there's really anthing on an F-16 that the Russians don't already know, or haven't already figured out on their own and implemented into their own jets, primarily the SU-35s and SU-57s. I mean, everyone knows the F-16s dimensions, its engine, its radar, its weapons, etc... And the fly-by-wire system is already copied by Russia and China. Those rat fricks already ripped off all our ideas decades ago.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because MIGs are fossils and higher maintenance and not built with NATO interoperability in mind.

      They dont have anything that can fire a meteor

      Yet. They should work on an extended range rocket motor for AMRAAM. Missiles are designed for easy subsystem swapout because they may be flown on sorties for years without being fired. They're self-contained aerospace vehicles made to be maintained.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    AMRAAM with 25km range will be useless, they need Meteors

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They dont have anything that can fire a meteor

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This place is gonna be pure cancer when an F16 eventually gets shot down

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Eh, it'll be a nice opportunity to shit on the vatniks and /misc/troons who will congregate here in response.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I hope Urkaine, in combo with Western allies, have some bombs for SEAD that they are not admitting to yet. Some type of glide bombs that can take out the SAM sites from far away. Even the S-400 is shit at taking out fast planes that are far away, say more than 50 miles. Missiles are only super, super dangerous at close range. They run out energy at longer ranges and can be out maneuvered quite easily.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      uniornically all they need to do is give ukraine more cruise missiles and ATACMS, and more launchers.

      ground based launchers + tomahawk spam means the s400 goes away. its already happening with ATACMS

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Agreed. The best use for F-16s at this time would be to defend more interior cities and battle grounds, and to perform the occasional wild weasel sortie. The best thing Ukraine can do at this point is to not let the war spill further inland from where it currently is, then force Russia into a stalemate that bleeds them dry of resources, weapons and soldiers. Gotta play the long game now. Russia has been playing the long game from the start.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe the other way around, they are there mostly to give the old ass soviet airframes a respite. The main advantages of the f16's are better integration with western weapons and the availabiltiy of parts and maintenance crews, is probably more easy to get falcon parts that any for sukhois or migs.

    Don't expect slav desert storm or furious dogfigths, Russia doesn't fly over ukraine since the patriots arrived, not even helicopters, and Ukraine is not going to risk their new crews near the frontlines so is going to be standoff ammunition hurling from both sides.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The main advantages of the f16's are better integration with western weapons and the availabiltiy of parts and maintenance crews
      F-16 has ten times smaller radar cros-section compare to soviet MiG-29 and Su-27, it also has better countermeasures and more maneuverable. If it's better than block 10 then it also has better radar.
      By all parameters it's better including weapons it can use.
      Scaring away Su-34 from dropping KABs and data linked HARM is more than enough

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, they're not really getting that many. It will help them supply their airforce deficit but they won't be a gamechanger. I don't think anyone expects them to be.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >but they won't be a gamechanger.
      They change the game because Ukraine gets something they didn't ever have, non-soviet fighters, just like HIMARS changed the game by giving Ukraine GMLRS and now ATACMS turns out few systems can change a lot

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Tanks and fighter jets are a whole different ballpark, and they didn't get many Leopards to begin with. Your false equivalencies are not arguments, garbage.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Zigger source
    Ukies are taking very seriously the total s400 annihilation

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      whats the strategic advantage of concentrating so hard on crimea? is it simply the fact that they arent allowed to target inside russia on the eastern front so they go for crimean ones by default?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The more viable an attack on Crimea looks the more spread out Russia's defensive posture has to be. Helps tie up resources that would otherwise potentially be deployed to actual active fronts.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Logistics. Crimea brings in supplies to the whole southern front. If Crimea loses AD coverage, they can hit supply depots, train yards, the Kerch bridge, etc. With those out, Russia would have to bring supplies overland through Mariupol which is much closer to the front and even easier to pressure.

        Russia might have the manpower and machinery to last another year or two. More importantly, Ukraine values the lives of their dudes way more than Russia (even if they kill more Russians than they lose). The quicker way to win is to force logistical collapse.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The other reasons stated are more relevant, but they /might/ be lining up a more permanent shot to the Kerch bridge.
        There's also the (admittedly remote) possibility that the AFU has figured out a potential vector for an amphibious invasion. Something like that would require an awful lot of SEAD and other prep work to be viable, but suppose the peninsula was poorly defended, possibly because the Russian command figured it was safe to redeploy troops from there to shore up their numbers at the front?
        The Russian resupply logistics rely heavily on two rail conduits (Kerch, plus the Armiansk one in the north). Severing those would put severe pressure on the Russians to get men and materiel in place quickly enough repel a beachhead. If the F-16s give enough of an edge in the air, then the only viable option in the short term might be to risk more of the BSF landing ships -- and everything in the BSF has been demonstrated to be at risk already.
        It's unlikely that they've got a solid plan for a Crimean offensive, of course. Still, if they pulled it off, Russian morale would plummet even worse than the 2022 blowout in Kharkiv and the abandonment of Kherson. There's just no way to spin the loss of Crimea as "part of the plan".

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They are going to use the F16's to fire NATO toys without having to frick with Sovjet planes. We won't see plane on plane action.

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Is it possible we're all underestimating the immediate impact the F16 will have?
    Unlikely unless russian forces have degraded even more than suspected, and Ukraine is willing to put their shiny new planes in danger based on that assumption.
    Likely they will be primarily used for interceptions and as occasional missile throwers.

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >immediate

    When, exactly?

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What if there are no S400 left when the F16 arrive

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Can't mine the air.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Oooooof.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that fricking troll face

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No.

    They'll primarily be used as HARM and standoff munition throwers, which they will excel at. There's a relatively low chance of air combat occurring though its not out of the question they will be lobbing AMRAAMs at russian frontline aviation as opportunities arrive.

    A squadrons worth of fighters just cannot have that large of an impact on a frontline.

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    why can't they use the F-16s to buttfrick the Russians between Kherson and Crimea? seems like Russian air defense would be weakest there.

    can't F-16s work in combination with ATACMS and other missiles?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because they're slavs, they're all going to crash before even getting off the ground.

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think "Air parity" or even "Air superiority" in a triad is pretty important, no?

    From a macro level, F16s could be huge. From a micro level, meh, depends on too many factors to say here.

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why do you think the Russia air force can intercept the F16 when they can't the intercept the A-22

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Well an F16 isn't the size of a hatchback made out of duct tape and traveling at a jogging pace, it sticks out more.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Russia is incapable of hitting a slow moving target that doesn't change course?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Obviously they are, because they haven't. But my point is that has a lot to do with it not actually being that easy to spot with Russian cold war era equipment.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Well an F16 isn't the size of a hatchback
        He doesn't know.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >F16
          15m long
          >A22
          6m long
          (although they do have similar wingspans funnily enough)

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          tzd but couldn't resist the meme.

  32. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Now that F16s are being deployed, are there any western weapons systems left that can further tighten this graph? We're at Minerva Mink, but can we get it to full Jessica Rabbit?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      BBC is pretty much a bioweapon to cuck white skin out of existence will fix Ukraine in two generations. The will probably end up the highest testosterone level country in Europe. Imagine Russians trying this shit again in 50 years and getting ripped to shred by mixed bulls instead of Ukie femboys.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >russias is worse
      If f16s will be a nothing burger, why are you here to seethe?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nice drawing, got a source for it?

  33. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    No, you're supposed to give me a source and then I say that's not a real source and we do that until you get bored and leave because I'm a leftytroon and think this is an effective way to convince people to join my side.

  34. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So if any of these get shot down, will the U.S. finally send F-16s?

  35. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is Russia really so incompetent that a freaking 40+ year old jet is better than their cutting edge SU-57?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They still can't figure out stealth and I don't know what is so hard about it. The Su-57 has virtually no stealth, even though the completely invisible F-117 was made in 1981, over 40 years ago

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        prettty sad, even the chinks are figuring it out to so degree with the SUPPOSED stealth capabilities of J-20 being similar to f35 and that Wish version of the B2.

        I always thought the SU-57s stealth trade off was
        1. not as severe as it actually is. Motherfrickers still gonna ping like a BRICK even on older radar
        2. pretty much completely due to the lack of angled thrust nozzles like the f22.

  36. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Crying Superman edits > Soijaks

  37. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    During the Soviet-Afghan War, the US gave Pakistan some radarless F-16, and they still did a number on Soviet planes.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Soviet_air_confrontations

    Now we may be looking down at the F-16 that Ukraine is getting because they don't have the newest and toppest upgrades, but they may surprise us and swat Soviet planes from the skies left and right, who knows.

  38. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  39. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They're simply replacement for the attrition the MiG-29s and Su-24s have suffered over the two years. Only real upgrade is easier to use western armaments.

  40. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That green text is probably talking about F-35 not F-16

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