Is an accurate full auto assault rifle possible?

Disclaimer before everyone shits up the thread with muh ammo waste and muh no need for it, would an accurate assault rifle, with say 500 RPM firing a cartridge similar to 556 in penetration be possible with all the modern advancements in materials, shock absorbers and the like?
The ability to fire full auto accurately out to 100-200 meters could be really interesting and possibly provide for a really fun gun to shoot.

  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yea

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    AEK-971
    AN-94

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      AN-94 is a delayed recoil burst rifle, the AEK is only 15-20% more accurate in full auto than an AK-74

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How heavy is it allowed to be?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You should be able to fire it shouldered and carry it for long distances, ie max weight would be around G3 level

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's not that hard, there's just not enough capacity, stability and sturdiness to turn it into a machine gun.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      <capacity
      know that, i was asking purely for fun reasons
      <stability and sturdiness
      is this in regards to sustained fire and the like?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        stability means that the gun stays where it's aimed at, even if recoil is tame you want to have several points of contact like a bipod so that the gun is staying still.

        sturdiness and thermal mass are related to sustained fire, yes.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          is there a way to improve stability while firing shouldered? maybe some kind of harness?

          Yes of course its possible. Look up videos of ten year olds shooting NFA AR15s, they already recoil very little even for children.

          Very little recoil doesn't necessarily mean controllable full auto at 150 meters, i was thinking more akin to something that could, in theory, be used instead of semi auto at medium ranges, say across a field

          you think the average person you want to convince to be pro 2A cares whether you say rifle or weapon after assault? they’ve already been brainwashed. “assault” anything is cringe

          assault rifle is there to differentiate it from a full power rifle, the fact that you don't like it doesn't mean it's le bad

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            you all get way too technical and into definitions and that’s exactly the problem. it’s not what “you” know it to be it’s what’s it been smeared as and perpetuating it only reinforces how normies have been brainwashed to perceive it. you aren’t operating on the same definitions. your realities are not the same

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >is there a way to improve stability while firing shouldered? maybe some kind of harness?
            not a practical one, no. you want to be able to control the gun while focusing on the target and retain the aiming position while you're not shooting. bipod or a tripod are great for that, a harness not so much. primary reasons are that by standing and firing you make yourself a vulnerable target and moving shifts your aim anyway, making this mobility improvement moot.

            basically, you want full auto on machine guns, which are most optimized for it. their configuration allows for a greater range and ability to do area fire, while rifles can effectively engage only point targets. if you're not engaging areas filled with enemies or trying to extend the range there's little purpose to just throwing more bullets downrange and you end up wasting ammo that you have to carry. crew served weapons consume so much ammo that the entire squad usually carries the whole ammo supply, with about 50% or more of the ammo load carried by regular riflemen still being relegated to the belt fed.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yes. Literally all it takes is the bolt not smashing into the back of the receiver each shot.
              Low RPM, muzzle breaks, suppressors, long barrels, heavy weight, stock dampeners are all just a bonus, in fact 5.56 is also just a bonus as you can easily achieve it with 308 or even 8mm mauser.

              This gave me an idea: how feasible would a lightened bren gun style weapon in 556 and with all the modern belts and whistles be?
              As far as I know the bren had pretty small box mags and still did a great job at being a full auto gun, how about making a similar, lighter design to fill both roles and make full auto feasible in an infantryman role?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Incredibly retarded idea.
                The name of the game nowadays is AR-18 copies for a reason. If you want a top mag, sure, go ahead, but you will make it an AR-18 copy.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't want a top mag, bro, i was just listing the bren gun as an example of a low-firerate low-capacity gun that could still be a great lmg, read the rest of it before you sperg out again

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Low firerate is a result of simple quite universal factors like spring rate, bolt mass, receiver length, bolt length, bolt starting velocity etc.
                The Bren is irrelevant do you not see? If you want a light weight low rpm low capacity assault rifle that could also work as an LMG you make an AR-18 copy that uses stanag mags, has a receiver two inches longer than usual, and that is literally it, you are done, you now have an AR-18 copy that is basically the same as any other but has low rpm and can be used in full auto accurately.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >assault rifle
    perpetuating made up word by politicians to demonize gun owners. cringe

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >confusing assault rifle with assault weapon and getting salty about it
      now thats the real cringe

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you think the average person you want to convince to be pro 2A cares whether you say rifle or weapon after assault? they’ve already been brainwashed. “assault” anything is cringe

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        but he's right. assault rifle comes from sturmgewehr which was coined by Hitler, who was a politician :^)

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why are there so many retards that think “assault rifle” was invented by lib politicians in the 21st century as opposed to being invented by Germans in WW2?
      Are you just retarded?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        perception is reality

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nah. “Assault weapon” is the made-up, propaganda term. “Assault rifle” denotes a certain category of rifles, was coined by the Germans in ww2.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >perpetuating made up word by politicians to demonize gun owners.
        My sides
        Didn't know the nazis wanted to demonize burger gun owners

        still not getting it. this is why the libs always win the gun control narrative. tiresome really. words matter

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I understand that colloquially, among normies, they mean the same thing, but this is PrepHole and we are weapons autists. There are no fence sitters here we are trying to convince to be pro 2A.

          And I like the term assault rifle. I think it’s edgy.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What even is your point?
          Are supposed to change terms well established over the better part of the century because the libs might get offended?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >perpetuating made up word by politicians to demonize gun owners.
      My sides
      Didn't know the nazis wanted to demonize burger gun owners

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Sturmgewehr 44
      >Assault Rifle 44
      Eat shit, retard

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      gun owners do plenty to demonize themselves

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes of course its possible. Look up videos of ten year olds shooting NFA AR15s, they already recoil very little even for children.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Your picrel is literally an example of a viable unified machinegun/assault rifle. All you have to do is optimize the cartridge to be light recoiling, so SCHV + a very fine, light for caliber bullet, chambered in a rifle with a constant recoil action and fed from a drum or quad stack mag. No doubt it’s possible, and if the Hughes amendment didn’t exist I’m sure there would be tons more development in the field of shoulder-fired machineguns, and that such a machinegun would already exist. Surefire (Jim Sullivan, really) made a proof of concept, a sort of modern day ultimax, with their MGX, an AR15 sized constant recoil 5.56 machinegun with quick change barrel, fed from quad stack mags. AFAIK there are only 1 or 2 in existence.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      gemmy high effort response, thanks

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      attach a heavy-ass fixed barrel chain gun to this a setup like this

      Equip infantry with powered exoskeletons with a weight bearing/shock absorbing third arm to cope with the weight, increase stability, and allow the user to use their hands to stabilize the gun more effectively
      or just use the gun you yourself posted, as said

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes. Literally all it takes is the bolt not smashing into the back of the receiver each shot.
    Low RPM, muzzle breaks, suppressors, long barrels, heavy weight, stock dampeners are all just a bonus, in fact 5.56 is also just a bonus as you can easily achieve it with 308 or even 8mm mauser.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This. KAC AMG in 308 moves less than a 5.56 AR.

      Nevertheless, it’s always useful to go lower in projectile momentum. Achieving the same energy, trajectory etc with small and light calibers going fast, and higher mag capacity. All this allows controllable full auto from an even lighter weapon. Dude I have a 4 pound AR and I didn’t even need to do gay shit like skeletonization. I want that, with constant recoil. One gun, that can do everything. That’s what the NGSW should have been. A lightweight unified MG/rifle, with a hybrid case .224 and quad stack mag.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >a cartridge similar to 556
    No. 5.56 has too much recoil. Cut it 3.5 times to .22LR level and you get your controllable auto fire.

    Such was down see Interdynamics MKR. Light bullet plus very massive muzzle brake achieved recoil of .22 LR. Never done before and after. Despite low weight hbullet had similar to M193 ballistics: 1000m/s 0.243 BC (vs 0.26 bc of M193).
    Also small rimfire ammo is 2 lighter than centerfire case so 4.5x26R round had rediculosly low weight of only 3.6 (!) grams. So you can have like 900 rounds combat load and spam autofire without care.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Those micro caliber cartridges are pushing the low weight and low recoil superlatives beyond dimishing returns tbh. They can be a little bigger. They simply give up too much in the pursuit of low weight and light recoil. With a properly designed action, 5.56 does NOT have too much recoil. Look up shooting footage of the KAC LAMG, ultimax 100, and Surefire MGX. Those are all viable shoulder-fired 5.56 LMGs, and have virtually zero recoil. Hell, the 308 versions look extremely controllable as well.

      That said, those micro caliber cartridges I think do have a place and might make a comeback in MP7 type weapons, especially with hybrid cases.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Those micro caliber cartridges are pushing the low weight and low recoil superlatives beyond dimishing returns tbh.
        4.5x26R was pushing into optimal burst fire dispersion. You just don't know. People have about zero knowledge about capabilities and limits of burst fire, machineguns are black holes of knowledge (God bless R. Reagan who banned machineguns for lowly peasants).
        Kellgren in Interdynamics run extensive research in that area, he found relationship between recoil and burst fire dispersion, also found that 5.56 has too much recoil to bring tangible benefits from offhand automatic fire in that caliber. Quotting Kellgren: "things become interesting at 10mil dispersions and flatten out beyond 2 mil dispersion." Too achieve 2 mil dispersion rifle needs .22 LR levels of recoil.

        >That said, those micro caliber cartridges I think do have a place and might make a comeback in MP7 type weapons, especially with hybrid cases.
        Thing is MP7 cartridge style bullet has terrible form and high drag, after 200m it flops. But microcaliber with VLD bullet and increased velocity can reach and touch to 400 meters and thefore take role of assault rifle not just PDW.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The cartridge you described with a low form factor is exactly what I had in mind when taking about an MP7 type cartridge. 4.6x30 is trash, I’m definitely not singing it’s praises. I was thinking a longer cartridge, wider case, higher pressure, with a .204 FABRL type bullet,

          What is burst fire dispersion? Accuracy in full auto?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Accuracy for 3 burst fire. Diameter of circle in mrad/mil where 50% of bullet hit. 2mils for MKR.

            From another source: single shot accuracy 4 MOA (during same side by side shooting M16A1 shot 3.5 MOA), implying supported fire position. Full auto dispersion offhand for MKR was 4 mils.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Here is another relevant thing, P90 project development cartridges. Including ultrafine bullets and rimfire.
            https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/5-7mm-fn-experimentals/37458/10
            Suck a pity FN chose such mediocre solution. Probably not because of NATO PDW requirement:
            1. 200 meter target range. Can be achieved with any bullet no need for VLD bullet.
            2. Pistol requirement. This implies vertically staked ositok grip magazine. Rimfire doesn't stacks well in straight column and pistol grip limits lenght of the round and thefore bullet too.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Could I get an ISBN for that book please? Google's not being helpful.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://www.amazon.de/-/en/N/dp/B006IV3OKI

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Thanks, that helps a little even if I can't read it.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ak-107. counterbalance guns have existed for 30 years and have no actual military service yet (as a mechanical system) for some reason, maybe its something we'll see when other countries start making M5-esque weapons

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Balanced recoil is a meme. Ian did a video on it, said there’s virtually zero difference. Constant recoil on the other hand, the benefits are obvious.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes. Just use an AR

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Have you ever seen someone who knows how to handle full auto fire a 5.56 rifle? They're already accurate.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Do you want high hit probability on fleeting targets or do you want tight groups on paper? Those are more exclusive goals than you might have figured.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >mfw Colt hired Cave Johnson to build their ACR

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I imagine if you wanted a highly accurate full auto machine gun that can be carried by your average grunt, you would probably want the firing rate to be as low as possible.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You could just make it recoilless.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Gunny Hathcock put an 8x Unertl scope on a ma deuce and was hitting out to a mile and a half to 2 miles. Said it was really tricky to get off just one shot at a time with the paddle trigger, but hellz yeah, it's possible.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      *Forgot to add, obviously tripod mounted, and with today's compensator tech, I would think reasonably accurate follow-ups could be expected. Hell, pod mounted mini guns or the GAU-88 are wicked accurate, multi round systems. Ask any warthog jockey.

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