china, by a wide margin, but unlike what thinks, it WOULD be funny because both sides would have glaring moments of incompetence. china would just have less of them, enough for an easy win.
China has no way of getting it's army to Moscow. Their airborne brigades are limited and only contain light armor, it wouldn't be enough to take Russian cities. Their tanks and ground forces are not surviving the thousand mile trek to Moscow, chinks have zero logistic experience to do so, and their equipment would likely breakdown. Unless a few thousand paratroopers is enough to bring Russia to it's knees, this would never happen
>China has no logistic experienced >Literally is building roads through the Himalayas and up Mt. Everest >Literally is building trains, pipelines, roads, and ports from Italy to Pakistan, to Iran, through Central Asia >The country building infrastructure all over Africa and defending it with PLA forces supplied in the middle of Africa >The country that built a massive transportation network within its borders which is almost the size of all of the US, including Alaska, which mostly doesn't have paved roads or trains in the US. >The country building 20 buildings over 1,500 feet right now at once with a 2,000+ building finished. >The country that supplies 180+ million people with food in just its 10 largest cities >The country that supplies bases all through Central Asia over thousands of kilometers of mountains and desert and does absolutely frick huge public works even the US wouldn't attempt in them. >The country that runs many of Europes ports and makes much of the durable good on US and European shelves, also which makes the ships they rely on for supply (they couldn't even make masks without China) >The country that runs much of the resource extraction in Russia's Far East and builds the infrastructure. >The country founded on the Long March, an almost 10,000 kilometer fighting retreat.
This is pure projection. Russia has bad logistics so China just too. France and the UK have logistics issues so China must to. Somehow they pull in natural resources from every corner of the Earth and ship, on ships they built, often to ports they built, goods to every corner of the Earth, but actually, they can't do logistics. This is also what MacArthur told himself before being routed.
China has many problems. An opaque government. An undefined system for transfer of power. Corruption. A mix of nationalistic overconfidence and a giant inferiority complex. Inflexible leadership. .
It does not lack production or transport capabilities.
To be fair, I don't think there's a military on earth, including America, that could realistically take and hold all of the land in between China's border and Moscow. Not due to Russian resistance, but due to the sheer scale.
You would be correct if it was populated, and populated by ethnic Russians loyal to Moscow.
However, it is not. There were 20,000 Han Chinese in the entire Far East in 2000. By 2014 this was 800,000 and Russia had them stop publishing facts and figures due to embarrassment. Meanwhile, Russians have been fleeing it since the USSR fell. Their last big push for resettlement was to entice/push 500,000 Ukrainians there in the 2010s (lol). There might be more Han there than Russians. The next largest group is natives, with cultures closer to China, followed closely by ethnic Mongols.
The population is clustered and reliant on supply. There is a long history of Moscow mistreating them. Of the Europeans there, many are there because they were deported there, or their ancestors were. Many of the others are temporary residents. The entire population is tiny, less than one large city.
So you're not talking about some vast a area full of insurgents as in Afghanistan. You're talking about a vast area that is mostly empty, with the majority of the population probably apathetic or outright happy about China rolling in.
And China can definitely support their military for a battle up there a hell of a lot better than Russia could support theirs. Especially since all the people they are getting killed are from the hinterlands (although mostly south Central Asia because there is no one up there to recruit.
>However, it is not. There were 20,000 Han Chinese in the entire Far East in 2000. By 2014 this was 800,000 and Russia had them stop publishing facts and figures due to embarrassment. Meanwhile, Russians have been fleeing it since the USSR fell. Their last big push for resettlement was to entice/push 500,000 Ukrainians there in the 2010s (lol). There might be more Han there than Russians. The next largest group is natives, with cultures closer to China, followed closely by ethnic Mongols.
This
People don't know but China could take the Russias far east with the people they already have on the other side of the border (if they somehow armed them)
Most of those projects failed, are failing or will never see their ROI. The chinese have shown themselves to be incredibly incompetent when it comes to infrastructure.
Tofu-dreg projects is a term that has literally been coined in the last decade
2 years ago
Anonymous
Massive difference between private residence developers and the big state owned infrastructure firms. China does infrastructure better than anyone right now because they've been doing it constantly for the last 15 years.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>China does infrastructure better than anyone right now
2 years ago
Anonymous
lol yeah, imagine having apartment buildings collapse. That would never happen in America
The belt road initiative was a massive failure wtf are you talking about
According to who, /misc/ and Tucker. Get your head out of your ass.
Most of those projects failed, are failing or will never see their ROI. The chinese have shown themselves to be incredibly incompetent when it comes to infrastructure.
Cope harder wumao
>Belt and Road was about ROI
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's a big deal in America because it doesn't happen. Meanwhile, in the chinkoid bughive...
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Never happens
I could hit the bump limit with these. 128 bridges a year alone collapse in the US. Americans just ignore it because gas taxes to pay for fixing their roads would mean their obese lard bodies couldn't afford to drive their F-250 to their office job and through the MacDonalds drive through.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>128 bridges a year alone collapse in the US
What type of bridges were these? How many casualties? Were they brand-new or were they 200 years old and poorly maintained?
2 years ago
Anonymous
That is a controlled demolition. Something your country has been doing a lot of now that Evergrande and almost the entirety of the construction sector is going bankrupt
The fact that you guys didn't do a simple ROI calculation when handing out loans like candy is exactly why the Belt and Road initiative has failed.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon, it was a controlled demolition with the people inside?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse
2 years ago
Anonymous
> Pulls one heavily publicized incident where the owners had to pay over a billion in reparation for their lack of ownership in maintenance
> Claims that this somehow absolves China of the daily dozens if not hundreds of deaths that occur by the Ponzi scheme infrastructure of the nation
Cope/bait harder, homosexual.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>lol yeah, imagine having apartment buildings collapse. That would never happen in America
It's a national tragedy covered 24-7 when it happens here, in China it's just another day and the government sweeps it under the rug. It had one of the deadliest earthquakes in human history in 2008 largely because of how shitty the buildings were.
Don't forget all the children who died in poorly made schools, and the parents who got v& for talking about how the government only let them have one kid and then killed the kid.
2 years ago
Anonymous
lol, yeah, like look at this bridge collapse. Only bug men would neglect infrastructure so badly this happens!
Except that they haven't. For all the 'succesful' projects that there are, innumerable have failed. Tofu dreg applies here.
Also, notice how I talked about ROI? Building big fricking bridges like the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau bridge or a high speed rail that goes through the middle of nowhere doesn't achieve anything if no one ends up using them. It's a huge waste of money that could have been invested in literally anything else and it would have been more beneficial.
The only thing the CCP is good at is vanity projects, all of them burdening the Chinese economy and achieving nothing but wumao hardons.
>Speaks with absolute confidence about something he clearly has no fricking clue about.
Let me ask you, what is the ROI on an aircraft carrier? What is the ROI on cultural programs the US does to export Hollywood and American culture abroad? What is the ROI on US military aid to Egypt or Pakistan?
Hmm, maybe it's not about money but a tool of national power? Did you know European colonies almost all had negative ROI too.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>literal everyday occurrences vs. rare scandals
China strong!
2 years ago
Anonymous
What gives you the idea that bridges and buildings are collapsing in China every day? A society like that wouldn't be able to function, much less house the world's largest economy and industrial powerhouse. This must be a joke.
2 years ago
Anonymous
roi for non-finanacial projects is not exclusively measured in monetary units dumb bugman
2 years ago
Anonymous
I think you missed his point. China never did this shit to make money. They did it to corner strategic areas and markets. It's why they have like all the rare earth metals.
So the comparison to European colonies is apt, but IDK if that is supposed to be a good thing, since those themselves collapsed and backfired.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They backfired because they let a bunch of Black folk into white countries but China's out in Africa RICING the place senseless
2 years ago
Anonymous
moron
2 years ago
Anonymous
Is he okay?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Except that they haven't. For all the 'succesful' projects that there are, innumerable have failed. Tofu dreg applies here.
Also, notice how I talked about ROI? Building big fricking bridges like the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau bridge or a high speed rail that goes through the middle of nowhere doesn't achieve anything if no one ends up using them. It's a huge waste of money that could have been invested in literally anything else and it would have been more beneficial.
The only thing the CCP is good at is vanity projects, all of them burdening the Chinese economy and achieving nothing but wumao hardons.
2 years ago
Anonymous
How is ROI even relevant in the context of a war you spastic. Just because the infrastructure is now mostly built to inflate GDP numbers doesn't mean they lack the expertise in building infrastructure.
>The chinese have shown themselves to be incredibly incompetent when it comes to infrastructure
Holy mutt moment lul
didn’t china pour more concrete in the last 5 years or so than the US did last century
>amount of concrete being poured is an objective measure of good construction
We could fill the entire grand canyon with concrete and overtake Chinese concrete production in one fell swoop. According to your moronic metric that would mean victory.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Whataboutism
Mutt moment X2 lul
There is, literally, no country in human history which has produced as much infrastructure as China has from the 1980s onwards. One does not house hundreds of millions of a newly-urbanized workforce to work towards manufacturing world dominance and leading trade power status with a poor sense of infrastructure development.
I had no idea what kind of head-burying ostriches the US education system was producing but you’ve given me a great insight.
Go on, spam some more webms. I know your greasy little brown fingers are itching to do so. It’s all you’ve got left to contribute.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>One does not house hundreds of millions of a newly-urbanized workforce to work towards manufacturing world dominance and leading trade power status with a poor sense of infrastructure development.
You mean like building 50 whole cities that no one uses?
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's not whataboutism, moron.
Also,
>One does not house hundreds of millions of a newly-urbanized workforce to work towards manufacturing world dominance and leading trade power status with a poor sense of infrastructure development.
You mean like building 50 whole cities that no one uses?
has no logistic experienced
is building roads through the Himalayas and up Mt. Everest
is building trains, pipelines, roads, and ports from Italy to Pakistan, to Iran, through Central Asia >>The country building infrastructure all over Africa and defending it with PLA forces supplied in the middle of Africa >>The country that built a massive transportation network within its borders which is almost the size of all of the US, including Alaska, which mostly doesn't have paved roads or trains in the US. >>The country building 20 buildings over 1,500 feet right now at once with a 2,000+ building finished. >>The country that supplies 180+ million people with food in just its 10 largest cities >>The country that supplies bases all through Central Asia over thousands of kilometers of mountains and desert and does absolutely frick huge public works even the US wouldn't attempt in them. >>The country that runs many of Europes ports and makes much of the durable good on US and European shelves, also which makes the ships they rely on for supply (they couldn't even make masks without China) >>The country that runs much of the resource extraction in Russia's Far East and builds the infrastructure. >>The country founded on the Long March, an almost 10,000 kilometer fighting retreat. >This is pure projection. Russia has bad logistics so China just too. France and the UK have logistics issues so China must to. Somehow they pull in natural resources from every corner of the Earth and ship, on ships they built, often to ports they built, goods to every corner of the Earth, but actually, they can't do logistics. This is also what MacArthur told himself before being routed. >China has many problems. An opaque government. An undefined system for transfer of power. Corruption. A mix of nationalistic overconfidence and a giant inferiority complex. Inflexible leadership. . >It does not lack production or transport capabilities.
Germany.
Muh Experience didn't help Russia at all in Ukraine (who had less Experience than Russia).
Besides the majority of the Russian military is made up of conscript soldiers, while the PLA is a standing army and hadn't use conscription since the Militias bungled the 1970s Sino-Viet War.
So they have conscription on paper but existing recruitment is enough to meet their needs?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon the population is 1.3-4 BILLION people. If .1% of them join the military that is 1.3 million soldiers. That .1% figure is less than half the US percentage, which is similarly a volunteer force. When you have a population that big, it is quite easy to put together an army millions strong.
Technically, China has a National Conscription law and every young Chinese person is to serve the army. In reality, China realized that arming & training bajillions of conscript soldiers is counterproductive, so the law isn't used at all. To fulfill it technically, Chinese college students are made to run through a 3 week paramilitary program thats more or less about patriotism courses and doing paramilitary drills. Its hardly conscription.
Further it has been policy since the Deng years to not rely on conscripted soldiers & militias for because one: they suck, like the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1970s showed, two: armed civilian militias and ex-conscripts nearly pushed China to Civil War 2 boogaloo when Mao Zedong mobilized them to attack political enemies of his in the Cultural Revolution. And finally China saw how much Soviet Style massed armies sucked in Iraq, so they began focusing
Hence since the late 80s the PLA has been an all-volunteer force to professionalize the military and monopolize armed forces under Party control. Conscripts aren't even trusted with reserve/internal security anymore, with role being handed over to the People's Armed Police (a gendarmerie army who answers to the PLA).
>all-volunteer force to professionalize the military and monopolize armed forces under Party control
So basically, it's the same crap as Russia's contract soldiers? Good to know that China's military is going to be just as inept.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Literal Mercenary forces >The same crap.
This is a forced analogy and you know it.
https://i.imgur.com/dh5CSgL.jpg
>not rely on conscripted soldiers & militias for because one: they suck >meanwhile in reality a bunch of reservists, territorial militias, cops, foreigners and a small number of SOF broke the entire Russian assault on Kyiv
Militias and Conscripts are only good for one thing: defending their homelands and bolstering their military. Use them offensively to attack another country (like what Russia did) and they fall tend to not do well.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>like what Russia did
Russia didn't use any conscripts. They're using contract soldiers in Ukraine who are getting their butts handed to them by conscripts. Also you really shouldn't be invading your neighbours anyway. >they fall tend to not do well
Vietnam used conscripts armies against the South and Cambodia and they did well.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Russia didn't use any conscripts
They used them a lot in the beggining. Many of them thought they were still on a training exercise.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They did use conscripts, it was a a whole scandal. They claim it was just hundreds but still
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Russia didn't use any conscripts
They used them a lot in the beggining. Many of them thought they were still on a training exercise.
They used them, but they weren't the bulk of the fighting force.
>Literal Mercenary forces >The same crap.
This is a forced analogy and you know it.
[...]
Militias and Conscripts are only good for one thing: defending their homelands and bolstering their military. Use them offensively to attack another country (like what Russia did) and they fall tend to not do well.
https://i.imgur.com/EQcIkzo.jpg
Technically, China has a National Conscription law and every young Chinese person is to serve the army. In reality, China realized that arming & training bajillions of conscript soldiers is counterproductive, so the law isn't used at all. To fulfill it technically, Chinese college students are made to run through a 3 week paramilitary program thats more or less about patriotism courses and doing paramilitary drills. Its hardly conscription.
Further it has been policy since the Deng years to not rely on conscripted soldiers & militias for because one: they suck, like the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1970s showed, two: armed civilian militias and ex-conscripts nearly pushed China to Civil War 2 boogaloo when Mao Zedong mobilized them to attack political enemies of his in the Cultural Revolution. And finally China saw how much Soviet Style massed armies sucked in Iraq, so they began focusing
Hence since the late 80s the PLA has been an all-volunteer force to professionalize the military and monopolize armed forces under Party control. Conscripts aren't even trusted with reserve/internal security anymore, with role being handed over to the People's Armed Police (a gendarmerie army who answers to the PLA).
Napoleon's Grande Armée was made up of conscripts from all backgrounds and all of their notable victories were on foreign soil. At the end of the day, of course it matters what you're swinging, an aluminum bat has a better chance of killing than a wooden stick, but it won't mean much if the guy swinging can't hit anything. It all comes down to competency, and I just don't see the chinks being competent.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sorry but I fail to see how the PLA's use of professional soldiers is different from Russia's use of professional soldiers. It's the same thing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Kontraktniki >Professional. >Disappears in peacetime.
Ok.
>not rely on conscripted soldiers & militias for because one: they suck >meanwhile in reality a bunch of reservists, territorial militias, cops, foreigners and a small number of SOF broke the entire Russian assault on Kyiv
2 years ago
Anonymous
>broke the entire Russian assault on Kyiv
once this war is over there are going to be so many kino stories and videos we'll get to hear and see.
china, by a wide margin, but unlike what thinks, it WOULD be funny because both sides would have glaring moments of incompetence. china would just have less of them, enough for an easy win.
>Verification not required.
China. They wouldn't take Moscow, but that won't matter to them; Moscow is thousands of miles away on another continent. They'd just seize the areas they wanted, dig in, and there'd be no way Russia could ever take anything back because China also has Nukes.
These.
The Chinese don't have the logistics to invade and occupy thousands of miles of territory, but they don't need to. They could easily take the parts of Siberia that are closest to China, put the population into camps to completely preempt partisans, and then just batter the Russians on the ground and through air strikes until they agree to a peace.
Russian vehicles can operate in -50 degree conditions. Chinese escalators don't even function at room temperature. The Russians are really weak, and really corrupt, and really stupid, but China is so incompetent they couldn't show up to the fight. They could take border towns and maybe their Navy could land a meaningful force on Kamchatka, but that's about it.
How is Russia even getting vehicles to the front when most of their armored forces are in Ukraine or in reserve in European Russia, and China is raping every train and convoy with swarms of shitty 4th gen F-16 knock offs?
There's no non nuclear way that the Russians would hold any ground against a much more numerous and modern ground force, especially now that it would be two fronts.
i like the way they look, china has a handful of nice looking fighters. Kinda sad really. it looks like a fighter designed for GTA that got rejected for looking too normal
2 years ago
Anonymous
Their aircraft and naval vessels are both really pretty.
Neither. They would cripple each other's economy with missiles, killing frickton of people in the process. But rusnigs don't have the numbers to match chinx, and chinx don't have what it takes to makes a thousands of kms long trip to Moscow
Easy to forget that a few decades ago the easy answer was that Russia / USSR was by far the superior fighting force. Goes to show what persuing economic development and globalization will do for a country. China has recently un-learned this lesson seemingly which is fine they'll stagnate in turn while the free world just chugs along getting 2 percent richer and more powerful year after year compounding which in the same few decades will make China a backwards inconsequential nuisance with nukes analogous to Russia today.
China. They wouldn't take Moscow, but that won't matter to them; Moscow is thousands of miles away on another continent. They'd just seize the areas they wanted, dig in, and there'd be no way Russia could ever take anything back because China also has Nukes.
Russia has more nukes than China and Putin absolutely would launch them at China if they invaded confident (not incorrectly so) that a nuclear attack on another nuclear power would not trigger a nuclear response from all other nations
the USA would launch on behalf of itself, and NATO, and maybe other strategic neutral nations, but not on behalf of China
This is projecting a British / American empire mentality onto China. A region having raw materials does not automatically mean China has to invade. It’s why China is a thousands of years old spciety, not an empire which tries to occupy the whole world, has great game vs Russia, and fails changing its name every couple hundred years like European powers. Siberia might worry their towns might grow due to people working for companies who get much more orders because China is growing. Not “we will invade you for selling in gold not the queens lates paper israelite scheme”. China sees empire dying for fighting great games vs Russia.
Would taking the rest of the Amur basin be worth it for China? Wouldn't it open them up for more attacks from the sea? Assuming they don't also take Sakhalin.
I mean purely from a strategic scenario assuming Russia and China are already killing each other. Getting easy access to the Sea of Japan is nice, but you'll have to split up a piece of your navy to the north. The northeast is also pretty barren economically.
China's attack dog has managed to neuter itself over the last 7 months. Russia's lost its value as a distraction, so comparatively, its territory must be looking better and better to China every day.
China will have a clear advantage over Russian mediocrity, corruption and incompetence but its a mistake to assume Sinoids wont find a way to choke and flounder hilariously too. Remember their invadion of Vietnam was their last trye combat experience.
>In a hypothetical war between China and Russia, who would win?
Everyone else, especially if the war could be dragged out to maximize loss of human...well, loss of Russian & Chinese life.
Russia is literally the path of least expansion to China, and Russia made the mistake of committing to a losing war just as China is looking for places to expand into.
Russian army desserts en mass when they arrive at the Chinese ghost cities and China now has to deal with the horror of 100s of thousands of Russian squatters
China, no question. Even though Carter and the west thought that Deng talking about declaring a 'People's War' against the USSR and drowning them in bodies was a joke, it's quite true - especially now that Russia has shown itself to be a joke.
China has been very open about wanting it's 'historic' borders, right now they've been adopting the Mexico strategy of taking over without a shot, but it circumstances change then a military method would be on the table.
Russia and China would end up glowing more than /misc/. They would avoid nukes at first but then Russia would blow up the 3 gorges dam, possibly on accident.
china is more likely to blow up the dam (or more realistically let it fail and blame Russia) in a stupid game of false flag one upsmanship to produce a casus belli or to justify further escalation during the conflict. our only problem is that, since this is fictional, we can’t take bets on what’s more likely
If China aims for Russian far east, then definitely China.
The transsiberian is their huge weakness. If China cripples their railway infrastructure, they're done, they can't send any reinforcements.
If China wants to invade the entire Russia, the Urals will be a tough challenge.
This one Russian I listen to on Youtube keeps saying China is amassing troops on the border but claim it's just for training purposes. However, he's brought it up a few times, I think he's getting nervous.
He also said the Russian/Chinese alliance is a joke and China does not have Russia's best interest and that they are going to have to deal with them soon.
Could we actually see it guys? I mean, no one thought Hitler was gonna turn on Stalin
In a non-nuclear world it'd be a no-brainer that China would liberate Russia of it's entire far east. There would be nothing they could do about it conventionally. Maybe they still do what's the use in European Russia commiting nuclear suicide for a territory they can't defend but then Russia clearly doesn't operate according to cost-benefit logic...
Assuming no nukes, I think it'd be a Chinese victory in the sense that they'd take a chunk of land and call it a day. I don't think China and Russia actually have meaningful ability to reach each other fast enough for there to be some major land battles. At best you'd see a fight over vladivostok or something, but that's a paltry amount of force relative to their units facing the West. At the same time, I don't think the Chinese are quite prepared for a massive trek across the Siberian expanse to reach the western (ie., populated/industrial heartland) portion in anything resembling a timely fashion. And Russia similarly probably can't pull it off if Ukraine is any indication.
You may as well be asking if Brazil could beat Iran. The answer is neither side could really reach each other. There'd be a burst of violence and then everyone just gets tired, no one has stamina to maintain reach like the NATO powers do.
China swarms Siberia like locusts, and occupy the key locations until Monke either presses the nuke button or gives up. Russia literally can't win without noooking.
Why should any country claim to own territory it obviously can't defend? It's destabilizing. Russia needs to shrink down to manageable defensible borders
Because Russia is really just a number of natural resources to be plundered by oligarchs. They need a lot of territory to exploit. Also their varniks would lose their shit if they gave up any territory.
Do any of the Russians really give a shit about Far east Russia(past Siberia) though? Or is it just a we got smaller on the fricking map, Let's ape out.
>In a hypothetical war between China and Russia, who would win?
Draw. They would both just shell each other and loose men in a benny hill war of incompetence. The Chinese communists would use the opportunity to purge the Army by enemy shellfire just like Mao did in Korea and the Russians would be so incompetent that even though the Chinese were walking slowly towards them blowing trumpets they would miss occasionally. This place would have to open a new board just for them to skill at each other
china, with varying degrees of success depending on whether russia has already descended into civil war, shattered into several independent states already or is capable of calling for total mobilization.
i dont think it would be convenient for them to attack now, they'd rather wait a few more months to see the outcomes of the war in ukraine in relation to russian internal political and economic stability.
Without nukes, China would win. Both sides would make blunders, but somehow the other side wouldn't exploit them due to incompetence/inexperience. Russia would be on the defensive as corruption once again cripples the army, while the Chinese would try to do fancy combined arms maneuver warfare, failing 1/4 attempts but eventually driving the Russians back due to sheer overwhelming numbers, technology and economy. The war is a shitshow, but the chinese grabs parts of Siberia and calls it a day. Russian propaganda points to the number of western knock-offs and say it was NATO units all along.
>Build a dam that if it ever breaks or is destroyed will cause biblical floods that can destroy entire cities and kill your food industry. >The Yangtze River was self-cleaning, but its so polluted that it no longer self-cleans.
Chinese infrastructure is truly great.
Whichever side was to attack would lose. China would get nuked into oblivion if they attacked Russia, and Russia has no real capabilities besides nukes
China because they have simply more men and equipment to use. Even if half their tanks sink while crossing the Amur they'd still outnumber the Russians easily.
>Russia would take over Ukraine simply because thye have mre men and equipment to lose. Even if half their tanks sink while crossing the Dnieper they'd still outnumber the Ukrainians easily.
Due to population demographics issues, China would benefit from getting get rid of around 30million military aged males to prevent them causing other problems. Russia is already in population collapse and can't afford to lose any, giving Putin only managed to capture a few million people from Ukraine, with almost as many Russians leaving Russia to dodge draft and economics since the start of war. Putin would give up low population areas of eastern Russia without much resistance. With the probability of nukes rising as China's horde moved towards western high Russian population areas.
Human wave tactics, albeit modernised with technicals and RPGs would be the order of the day. With both sides losing any advanced equipment rapidly.
The war will stop because the next tsar will agree terms with USA / NATO / Japan etc for security.
China's manpower losses will be huge, but so will the area of land captured and held.
China would seize the borders quite easily, and take a good chunk of the Russian Far East before the war was over, but they'd be limited by Russia's sheer size and the limited infrastructure in the east.
I don't think the PLA has the experience or equipment needed to quickly construct forward air bases or sustain multiple corps-sized units through airlifts alone.
If nothing else, the Russians can just sabotage the Trans-Siberian Railway as they retreat and let gasoline shortages halt the Chinese advance. And while Russia is incompetent on the offensive, on their own turf they have General Winter to help them.
The Chinese would be limited to whatever they can take in the first 12 months, because as improbable as this feels right now, I can actually see the West sending Russia aid or invoking sanctions against China provided Putin isn't in charge anymore and the new guy swears Russia is serious about democracy this time, you guys, for real.
China gaining control over Siberia by setting up a puppet regime (or even worse, annexing it outright) would just be too destabilizing for the West to allow. But unlike Taiwan, I can't imagine anyone intervening unless the Chinese crossed the Urals.
Xi might even pull it off and be known in (Chinese) history books as "the conqueror of Siberia" as opposed to "the guy who fricked up Covid and ruined the economy so bad it set China back forty years".
That all being said, the Russians' military efforts would have a negligible effect on the outcome.
China would flatten them so quick it wouldn't be funny, all Russia has is nukes both sides lack the balls to press the button.
china, by a wide margin, but unlike what thinks, it WOULD be funny because both sides would have glaring moments of incompetence. china would just have less of them, enough for an easy win.
>Verification not required.
This.
China would certainly win but the chinese would still manage to embarass themselves.
Overall it sounds like it would be hilarious to watch.
China has no way of getting it's army to Moscow. Their airborne brigades are limited and only contain light armor, it wouldn't be enough to take Russian cities. Their tanks and ground forces are not surviving the thousand mile trek to Moscow, chinks have zero logistic experience to do so, and their equipment would likely breakdown. Unless a few thousand paratroopers is enough to bring Russia to it's knees, this would never happen
>paratrooper attack on moscow airport
>the city falls
>putin runs, china wins in 3 days
>China has no logistic experienced
>Literally is building roads through the Himalayas and up Mt. Everest
>Literally is building trains, pipelines, roads, and ports from Italy to Pakistan, to Iran, through Central Asia
>The country building infrastructure all over Africa and defending it with PLA forces supplied in the middle of Africa
>The country that built a massive transportation network within its borders which is almost the size of all of the US, including Alaska, which mostly doesn't have paved roads or trains in the US.
>The country building 20 buildings over 1,500 feet right now at once with a 2,000+ building finished.
>The country that supplies 180+ million people with food in just its 10 largest cities
>The country that supplies bases all through Central Asia over thousands of kilometers of mountains and desert and does absolutely frick huge public works even the US wouldn't attempt in them.
>The country that runs many of Europes ports and makes much of the durable good on US and European shelves, also which makes the ships they rely on for supply (they couldn't even make masks without China)
>The country that runs much of the resource extraction in Russia's Far East and builds the infrastructure.
>The country founded on the Long March, an almost 10,000 kilometer fighting retreat.
This is pure projection. Russia has bad logistics so China just too. France and the UK have logistics issues so China must to. Somehow they pull in natural resources from every corner of the Earth and ship, on ships they built, often to ports they built, goods to every corner of the Earth, but actually, they can't do logistics. This is also what MacArthur told himself before being routed.
China has many problems. An opaque government. An undefined system for transfer of power. Corruption. A mix of nationalistic overconfidence and a giant inferiority complex. Inflexible leadership. .
It does not lack production or transport capabilities.
To be fair, I don't think there's a military on earth, including America, that could realistically take and hold all of the land in between China's border and Moscow. Not due to Russian resistance, but due to the sheer scale.
You would be correct if it was populated, and populated by ethnic Russians loyal to Moscow.
However, it is not. There were 20,000 Han Chinese in the entire Far East in 2000. By 2014 this was 800,000 and Russia had them stop publishing facts and figures due to embarrassment. Meanwhile, Russians have been fleeing it since the USSR fell. Their last big push for resettlement was to entice/push 500,000 Ukrainians there in the 2010s (lol). There might be more Han there than Russians. The next largest group is natives, with cultures closer to China, followed closely by ethnic Mongols.
The population is clustered and reliant on supply. There is a long history of Moscow mistreating them. Of the Europeans there, many are there because they were deported there, or their ancestors were. Many of the others are temporary residents. The entire population is tiny, less than one large city.
So you're not talking about some vast a area full of insurgents as in Afghanistan. You're talking about a vast area that is mostly empty, with the majority of the population probably apathetic or outright happy about China rolling in.
And China can definitely support their military for a battle up there a hell of a lot better than Russia could support theirs. Especially since all the people they are getting killed are from the hinterlands (although mostly south Central Asia because there is no one up there to recruit.
>However, it is not. There were 20,000 Han Chinese in the entire Far East in 2000. By 2014 this was 800,000 and Russia had them stop publishing facts and figures due to embarrassment. Meanwhile, Russians have been fleeing it since the USSR fell. Their last big push for resettlement was to entice/push 500,000 Ukrainians there in the 2010s (lol). There might be more Han there than Russians. The next largest group is natives, with cultures closer to China, followed closely by ethnic Mongols.
This
People don't know but China could take the Russias far east with the people they already have on the other side of the border (if they somehow armed them)
Most of those projects failed, are failing or will never see their ROI. The chinese have shown themselves to be incredibly incompetent when it comes to infrastructure.
Cope harder wumao
>The chinese have shown themselves to be incredibly incompetent when it comes to infrastructure.
Tofu-dreg projects is a term that has literally been coined in the last decade
Massive difference between private residence developers and the big state owned infrastructure firms. China does infrastructure better than anyone right now because they've been doing it constantly for the last 15 years.
>China does infrastructure better than anyone right now
lol yeah, imagine having apartment buildings collapse. That would never happen in America
According to who, /misc/ and Tucker. Get your head out of your ass.
>Belt and Road was about ROI
It's a big deal in America because it doesn't happen. Meanwhile, in the chinkoid bughive...
>Never happens
I could hit the bump limit with these. 128 bridges a year alone collapse in the US. Americans just ignore it because gas taxes to pay for fixing their roads would mean their obese lard bodies couldn't afford to drive their F-250 to their office job and through the MacDonalds drive through.
>128 bridges a year alone collapse in the US
What type of bridges were these? How many casualties? Were they brand-new or were they 200 years old and poorly maintained?
That is a controlled demolition. Something your country has been doing a lot of now that Evergrande and almost the entirety of the construction sector is going bankrupt
The fact that you guys didn't do a simple ROI calculation when handing out loans like candy is exactly why the Belt and Road initiative has failed.
Anon, it was a controlled demolition with the people inside?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse
> Pulls one heavily publicized incident where the owners had to pay over a billion in reparation for their lack of ownership in maintenance
> Claims that this somehow absolves China of the daily dozens if not hundreds of deaths that occur by the Ponzi scheme infrastructure of the nation
Cope/bait harder, homosexual.
>lol yeah, imagine having apartment buildings collapse. That would never happen in America
It's a national tragedy covered 24-7 when it happens here, in China it's just another day and the government sweeps it under the rug. It had one of the deadliest earthquakes in human history in 2008 largely because of how shitty the buildings were.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Sichuan_earthquake#Collapse_of_schoolhouses
Don't forget all the children who died in poorly made schools, and the parents who got v& for talking about how the government only let them have one kid and then killed the kid.
lol, yeah, like look at this bridge collapse. Only bug men would neglect infrastructure so badly this happens!
>Speaks with absolute confidence about something he clearly has no fricking clue about.
Let me ask you, what is the ROI on an aircraft carrier? What is the ROI on cultural programs the US does to export Hollywood and American culture abroad? What is the ROI on US military aid to Egypt or Pakistan?
Hmm, maybe it's not about money but a tool of national power? Did you know European colonies almost all had negative ROI too.
>literal everyday occurrences vs. rare scandals
China strong!
What gives you the idea that bridges and buildings are collapsing in China every day? A society like that wouldn't be able to function, much less house the world's largest economy and industrial powerhouse. This must be a joke.
roi for non-finanacial projects is not exclusively measured in monetary units dumb bugman
I think you missed his point. China never did this shit to make money. They did it to corner strategic areas and markets. It's why they have like all the rare earth metals.
So the comparison to European colonies is apt, but IDK if that is supposed to be a good thing, since those themselves collapsed and backfired.
They backfired because they let a bunch of Black folk into white countries but China's out in Africa RICING the place senseless
moron
Is he okay?
Except that they haven't. For all the 'succesful' projects that there are, innumerable have failed. Tofu dreg applies here.
Also, notice how I talked about ROI? Building big fricking bridges like the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau bridge or a high speed rail that goes through the middle of nowhere doesn't achieve anything if no one ends up using them. It's a huge waste of money that could have been invested in literally anything else and it would have been more beneficial.
The only thing the CCP is good at is vanity projects, all of them burdening the Chinese economy and achieving nothing but wumao hardons.
How is ROI even relevant in the context of a war you spastic. Just because the infrastructure is now mostly built to inflate GDP numbers doesn't mean they lack the expertise in building infrastructure.
>The chinese have shown themselves to be incredibly incompetent when it comes to infrastructure
Holy mutt moment lul
didn’t china pour more concrete in the last 5 years or so than the US did last century
>amount of concrete being poured is an objective measure of good construction
We could fill the entire grand canyon with concrete and overtake Chinese concrete production in one fell swoop. According to your moronic metric that would mean victory.
>Whataboutism
Mutt moment X2 lul
There is, literally, no country in human history which has produced as much infrastructure as China has from the 1980s onwards. One does not house hundreds of millions of a newly-urbanized workforce to work towards manufacturing world dominance and leading trade power status with a poor sense of infrastructure development.
I had no idea what kind of head-burying ostriches the US education system was producing but you’ve given me a great insight.
Go on, spam some more webms. I know your greasy little brown fingers are itching to do so. It’s all you’ve got left to contribute.
>One does not house hundreds of millions of a newly-urbanized workforce to work towards manufacturing world dominance and leading trade power status with a poor sense of infrastructure development.
You mean like building 50 whole cities that no one uses?
That's not whataboutism, moron.
Also,
Bad spending is bad spending.
>or will never see their ROI
Frick neoliberals
The belt road initiative was a massive failure wtf are you talking about
Why are mutts so dumb?
May I see it?
has no logistic experienced
is building roads through the Himalayas and up Mt. Everest
is building trains, pipelines, roads, and ports from Italy to Pakistan, to Iran, through Central Asia
>>The country building infrastructure all over Africa and defending it with PLA forces supplied in the middle of Africa
>>The country that built a massive transportation network within its borders which is almost the size of all of the US, including Alaska, which mostly doesn't have paved roads or trains in the US.
>>The country building 20 buildings over 1,500 feet right now at once with a 2,000+ building finished.
>>The country that supplies 180+ million people with food in just its 10 largest cities
>>The country that supplies bases all through Central Asia over thousands of kilometers of mountains and desert and does absolutely frick huge public works even the US wouldn't attempt in them.
>>The country that runs many of Europes ports and makes much of the durable good on US and European shelves, also which makes the ships they rely on for supply (they couldn't even make masks without China)
>>The country that runs much of the resource extraction in Russia's Far East and builds the infrastructure.
>>The country founded on the Long March, an almost 10,000 kilometer fighting retreat.
>This is pure projection. Russia has bad logistics so China just too. France and the UK have logistics issues so China must to. Somehow they pull in natural resources from every corner of the Earth and ship, on ships they built, often to ports they built, goods to every corner of the Earth, but actually, they can't do logistics. This is also what MacArthur told himself before being routed.
>China has many problems. An opaque government. An undefined system for transfer of power. Corruption. A mix of nationalistic overconfidence and a giant inferiority complex. Inflexible leadership. .
>It does not lack production or transport capabilities.
Germany.
Its a balance between the fact the Chinese are so moronic they still actually call themselves communists and the incest Z army
>makes much of the durable good on US and European shelves,
I don't think there is much in the way of durable goods on US shelves.
military logistics != constructing public infrastructure
>The Third Reich built the world's largest network of concrete highways.
>So the logistics of invading the Soviet Union will be no problem at all.
Muh Experience didn't help Russia at all in Ukraine (who had less Experience than Russia).
Besides the majority of the Russian military is made up of conscript soldiers, while the PLA is a standing army and hadn't use conscription since the Militias bungled the 1970s Sino-Viet War.
Wait, is the PLA an all-volunteer force?
notional conscription, but effectively yeah all volunteer
So they have conscription on paper but existing recruitment is enough to meet their needs?
Anon the population is 1.3-4 BILLION people. If .1% of them join the military that is 1.3 million soldiers. That .1% figure is less than half the US percentage, which is similarly a volunteer force. When you have a population that big, it is quite easy to put together an army millions strong.
Technically, China has a National Conscription law and every young Chinese person is to serve the army. In reality, China realized that arming & training bajillions of conscript soldiers is counterproductive, so the law isn't used at all. To fulfill it technically, Chinese college students are made to run through a 3 week paramilitary program thats more or less about patriotism courses and doing paramilitary drills. Its hardly conscription.
Further it has been policy since the Deng years to not rely on conscripted soldiers & militias for because one: they suck, like the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1970s showed, two: armed civilian militias and ex-conscripts nearly pushed China to Civil War 2 boogaloo when Mao Zedong mobilized them to attack political enemies of his in the Cultural Revolution. And finally China saw how much Soviet Style massed armies sucked in Iraq, so they began focusing
Hence since the late 80s the PLA has been an all-volunteer force to professionalize the military and monopolize armed forces under Party control. Conscripts aren't even trusted with reserve/internal security anymore, with role being handed over to the People's Armed Police (a gendarmerie army who answers to the PLA).
>Chinese military
>Professional
Professional at siphoning funds.
That's the Russian Military.
>all-volunteer force to professionalize the military and monopolize armed forces under Party control
So basically, it's the same crap as Russia's contract soldiers? Good to know that China's military is going to be just as inept.
>Literal Mercenary forces
>The same crap.
This is a forced analogy and you know it.
Militias and Conscripts are only good for one thing: defending their homelands and bolstering their military. Use them offensively to attack another country (like what Russia did) and they fall tend to not do well.
>like what Russia did
Russia didn't use any conscripts. They're using contract soldiers in Ukraine who are getting their butts handed to them by conscripts. Also you really shouldn't be invading your neighbours anyway.
>they fall tend to not do well
Vietnam used conscripts armies against the South and Cambodia and they did well.
>Russia didn't use any conscripts
They used them a lot in the beggining. Many of them thought they were still on a training exercise.
They did use conscripts, it was a a whole scandal. They claim it was just hundreds but still
They used them, but they weren't the bulk of the fighting force.
Napoleon's Grande Armée was made up of conscripts from all backgrounds and all of their notable victories were on foreign soil. At the end of the day, of course it matters what you're swinging, an aluminum bat has a better chance of killing than a wooden stick, but it won't mean much if the guy swinging can't hit anything. It all comes down to competency, and I just don't see the chinks being competent.
Sorry but I fail to see how the PLA's use of professional soldiers is different from Russia's use of professional soldiers. It's the same thing.
>Kontraktniki
>Professional.
>Disappears in peacetime.
Ok.
>not rely on conscripted soldiers & militias for because one: they suck
>meanwhile in reality a bunch of reservists, territorial militias, cops, foreigners and a small number of SOF broke the entire Russian assault on Kyiv
>broke the entire Russian assault on Kyiv
once this war is over there are going to be so many kino stories and videos we'll get to hear and see.
These.
The Chinese don't have the logistics to invade and occupy thousands of miles of territory, but they don't need to. They could easily take the parts of Siberia that are closest to China, put the population into camps to completely preempt partisans, and then just batter the Russians on the ground and through air strikes until they agree to a peace.
Russian vehicles can operate in -50 degree conditions. Chinese escalators don't even function at room temperature. The Russians are really weak, and really corrupt, and really stupid, but China is so incompetent they couldn't show up to the fight. They could take border towns and maybe their Navy could land a meaningful force on Kamchatka, but that's about it.
How is Russia even getting vehicles to the front when most of their armored forces are in Ukraine or in reserve in European Russia, and China is raping every train and convoy with swarms of shitty 4th gen F-16 knock offs?
There's no non nuclear way that the Russians would hold any ground against a much more numerous and modern ground force, especially now that it would be two fronts.
>with swarms of shitty 4th gen F-16 knock offs?
These little guys are charming
I love using the dirt cheap Chinese LGB trucks in Wargame. There's something immensely satisfying about some shit that's cheap and good enough.
i like the way they look, china has a handful of nice looking fighters. Kinda sad really. it looks like a fighter designed for GTA that got rejected for looking too normal
Their aircraft and naval vessels are both really pretty.
>Russian vehicles can operate in -50 degree conditions
The russians also claim that most of their BMPs are amphibious
Neither. They would cripple each other's economy with missiles, killing frickton of people in the process. But rusnigs don't have the numbers to match chinx, and chinx don't have what it takes to makes a thousands of kms long trip to Moscow
That being said, bug men would be at an advantage and could seize a significant portion of rusnig territory
This country with a larger population and functioning economy.
Easy to forget that a few decades ago the easy answer was that Russia / USSR was by far the superior fighting force. Goes to show what persuing economic development and globalization will do for a country. China has recently un-learned this lesson seemingly which is fine they'll stagnate in turn while the free world just chugs along getting 2 percent richer and more powerful year after year compounding which in the same few decades will make China a backwards inconsequential nuisance with nukes analogous to Russia today.
China by a long long fricking shot
China. They wouldn't take Moscow, but that won't matter to them; Moscow is thousands of miles away on another continent. They'd just seize the areas they wanted, dig in, and there'd be no way Russia could ever take anything back because China also has Nukes.
Russia has more nukes than China and Putin absolutely would launch them at China if they invaded confident (not incorrectly so) that a nuclear attack on another nuclear power would not trigger a nuclear response from all other nations
the USA would launch on behalf of itself, and NATO, and maybe other strategic neutral nations, but not on behalf of China
>China and Russia, who would win
The rest of the world
>who would win?
Chinas going to wait for Putin to commit even more troops in Ukraine then swoop in for the loot in Siberia
This is projecting a British / American empire mentality onto China. A region having raw materials does not automatically mean China has to invade. It’s why China is a thousands of years old spciety, not an empire which tries to occupy the whole world, has great game vs Russia, and fails changing its name every couple hundred years like European powers. Siberia might worry their towns might grow due to people working for companies who get much more orders because China is growing. Not “we will invade you for selling in gold not the queens lates paper israelite scheme”. China sees empire dying for fighting great games vs Russia.
no, I simply expect them to behave how the parties of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact did
I think they would find themselves in a prolonged stalemate.
Would taking the rest of the Amur basin be worth it for China? Wouldn't it open them up for more attacks from the sea? Assuming they don't also take Sakhalin.
Not worth losing their attack dog.
Russia's value to China is that it causes trouble and consumes resources for the west.
I mean purely from a strategic scenario assuming Russia and China are already killing each other. Getting easy access to the Sea of Japan is nice, but you'll have to split up a piece of your navy to the north. The northeast is also pretty barren economically.
I think the main thing would be raw resources. China could use oil, timber, minerals.
China's attack dog has managed to neuter itself over the last 7 months. Russia's lost its value as a distraction, so comparatively, its territory must be looking better and better to China every day.
It's worth it because it's where all of Russia's T-I-G-E-R-S are.
China will have a clear advantage over Russian mediocrity, corruption and incompetence but its a mistake to assume Sinoids wont find a way to choke and flounder hilariously too. Remember their invadion of Vietnam was their last trye combat experience.
It would make sense for China to do this. Russian land would be one giant mine, and China is obsessed with mining. They're like thin yellow dwarves.
china through human wave warfare 1:4 loss ratio
Who wins? The rest of the world. They should nuke eachother
It's weird to think how much better everyone off would be without them
>In a hypothetical war between China and Russia, who would win?
Everyone else, especially if the war could be dragged out to maximize loss of human...well, loss of Russian & Chinese life.
Is this the chink copium thread
Russia is literally the path of least expansion to China, and Russia made the mistake of committing to a losing war just as China is looking for places to expand into.
>the path of least
resistance*
china sux
Russia's military is fricked right now, another war would break them
Russian army desserts en mass when they arrive at the Chinese ghost cities and China now has to deal with the horror of 100s of thousands of Russian squatters
Strange how I can't find any numbers on annual Chinese bridge collapses. Is no one keeping count?
China, no question. Even though Carter and the west thought that Deng talking about declaring a 'People's War' against the USSR and drowning them in bodies was a joke, it's quite true - especially now that Russia has shown itself to be a joke.
China has been very open about wanting it's 'historic' borders, right now they've been adopting the Mexico strategy of taking over without a shot, but it circumstances change then a military method would be on the table.
luckily biden passed the infrastructure bill to save american infrastructure, right bros?
Russia and China would end up glowing more than /misc/. They would avoid nukes at first but then Russia would blow up the 3 gorges dam, possibly on accident.
china is more likely to blow up the dam (or more realistically let it fail and blame Russia) in a stupid game of false flag one upsmanship to produce a casus belli or to justify further escalation during the conflict. our only problem is that, since this is fictional, we can’t take bets on what’s more likely
two mongoloid populated communist-in-name shitholes whose military histories consist of raw numbers and human wave tactics. I wonder
Honestly, it would probably be an even bigger clown war than this one.
If China aims for Russian far east, then definitely China.
The transsiberian is their huge weakness. If China cripples their railway infrastructure, they're done, they can't send any reinforcements.
If China wants to invade the entire Russia, the Urals will be a tough challenge.
The rest of the planet. Makes me wonder if a war between the two did break out who the US would send weapons to.
have a nice day! We don't need a apocalypse you homosexual!
Immense material damage, but not a single human life lost.
This one Russian I listen to on Youtube keeps saying China is amassing troops on the border but claim it's just for training purposes. However, he's brought it up a few times, I think he's getting nervous.
He also said the Russian/Chinese alliance is a joke and China does not have Russia's best interest and that they are going to have to deal with them soon.
Could we actually see it guys? I mean, no one thought Hitler was gonna turn on Stalin
In a non-nuclear world it'd be a no-brainer that China would liberate Russia of it's entire far east. There would be nothing they could do about it conventionally. Maybe they still do what's the use in European Russia commiting nuclear suicide for a territory they can't defend but then Russia clearly doesn't operate according to cost-benefit logic...
USA.
China has more soldiers than Russia has total population, and they're more competent
It would be a blowout no question
>China has more soldiers than Russia has total population
Russia has less than 2.5 million people? No wonder they are losing in Ukraine.
I'm assuming this would be the chinks invading Russia, in which case I would actually have to give it to the Vatniks.
Assuming no nukes, I think it'd be a Chinese victory in the sense that they'd take a chunk of land and call it a day. I don't think China and Russia actually have meaningful ability to reach each other fast enough for there to be some major land battles. At best you'd see a fight over vladivostok or something, but that's a paltry amount of force relative to their units facing the West. At the same time, I don't think the Chinese are quite prepared for a massive trek across the Siberian expanse to reach the western (ie., populated/industrial heartland) portion in anything resembling a timely fashion. And Russia similarly probably can't pull it off if Ukraine is any indication.
You may as well be asking if Brazil could beat Iran. The answer is neither side could really reach each other. There'd be a burst of violence and then everyone just gets tired, no one has stamina to maintain reach like the NATO powers do.
>who would win?
What do you think is going to happen?
Chinese ICBM tech can already reach Moscow, it's only about numbers now.
China swarms Siberia like locusts, and occupy the key locations until Monke either presses the nuke button or gives up. Russia literally can't win without noooking.
>China swarms Siberia like locusts
Why should any country claim to own territory it obviously can't defend? It's destabilizing. Russia needs to shrink down to manageable defensible borders
Because Russia is really just a number of natural resources to be plundered by oligarchs. They need a lot of territory to exploit. Also their varniks would lose their shit if they gave up any territory.
Do any of the Russians really give a shit about Far east Russia(past Siberia) though? Or is it just a we got smaller on the fricking map, Let's ape out.
>we got smaller on the fricking map, Let's ape out.
Pretty sure that's all it is.
The rest of the world.
>In a hypothetical war between China and Russia, who would win?
Draw. They would both just shell each other and loose men in a benny hill war of incompetence. The Chinese communists would use the opportunity to purge the Army by enemy shellfire just like Mao did in Korea and the Russians would be so incompetent that even though the Chinese were walking slowly towards them blowing trumpets they would miss occasionally. This place would have to open a new board just for them to skill at each other
The Qing empire duhhh and now it can easily overtake eastern europe and probably middle too.
>hypothetical war between China and Russia, who would win
That happened from the Philippines.
Also cope
china, with varying degrees of success depending on whether russia has already descended into civil war, shattered into several independent states already or is capable of calling for total mobilization.
i dont think it would be convenient for them to attack now, they'd rather wait a few more months to see the outcomes of the war in ukraine in relation to russian internal political and economic stability.
Russia would unironically win as USA and India would side with it.
China unironically in two weeks.
Three Stooges fight while the rest of the world looks on and wonders why they were so scared of these guys
Without nukes, China would win. Both sides would make blunders, but somehow the other side wouldn't exploit them due to incompetence/inexperience. Russia would be on the defensive as corruption once again cripples the army, while the Chinese would try to do fancy combined arms maneuver warfare, failing 1/4 attempts but eventually driving the Russians back due to sheer overwhelming numbers, technology and economy. The war is a shitshow, but the chinese grabs parts of Siberia and calls it a day. Russian propaganda points to the number of western knock-offs and say it was NATO units all along.
>In a hypothetical war between China and Russia, who would win?
The United States.
>Build a dam that if it ever breaks or is destroyed will cause biblical floods that can destroy entire cities and kill your food industry.
>The Yangtze River was self-cleaning, but its so polluted that it no longer self-cleans.
Chinese infrastructure is truly great.
>In a hypothetical war between China and Russia, who would win?
Me
>In a hypothetical war between China and Russia, who would win?
Us
Whichever side was to attack would lose. China would get nuked into oblivion if they attacked Russia, and Russia has no real capabilities besides nukes
China because they have simply more men and equipment to use. Even if half their tanks sink while crossing the Amur they'd still outnumber the Russians easily.
>Russia would take over Ukraine simply because thye have mre men and equipment to lose. Even if half their tanks sink while crossing the Dnieper they'd still outnumber the Ukrainians easily.
Russia doesn't have NATO training or support. It's going to be a fight between two morons and the moron with more bodies will win.
>China and Russia engaged in a bloody war that could potentially ruin both their countries for decades
>Meanwhile, in the United States:
Due to population demographics issues, China would benefit from getting get rid of around 30million military aged males to prevent them causing other problems. Russia is already in population collapse and can't afford to lose any, giving Putin only managed to capture a few million people from Ukraine, with almost as many Russians leaving Russia to dodge draft and economics since the start of war. Putin would give up low population areas of eastern Russia without much resistance. With the probability of nukes rising as China's horde moved towards western high Russian population areas.
Human wave tactics, albeit modernised with technicals and RPGs would be the order of the day. With both sides losing any advanced equipment rapidly.
The war will stop because the next tsar will agree terms with USA / NATO / Japan etc for security.
China's manpower losses will be huge, but so will the area of land captured and held.
Isn't the reason Putin hasn't sent more troops because he's shit scared it'll make all the other borders too weak and they'll get invaded?
China.
China would seize the borders quite easily, and take a good chunk of the Russian Far East before the war was over, but they'd be limited by Russia's sheer size and the limited infrastructure in the east.
I don't think the PLA has the experience or equipment needed to quickly construct forward air bases or sustain multiple corps-sized units through airlifts alone.
If nothing else, the Russians can just sabotage the Trans-Siberian Railway as they retreat and let gasoline shortages halt the Chinese advance. And while Russia is incompetent on the offensive, on their own turf they have General Winter to help them.
The Chinese would be limited to whatever they can take in the first 12 months, because as improbable as this feels right now, I can actually see the West sending Russia aid or invoking sanctions against China provided Putin isn't in charge anymore and the new guy swears Russia is serious about democracy this time, you guys, for real.
China gaining control over Siberia by setting up a puppet regime (or even worse, annexing it outright) would just be too destabilizing for the West to allow. But unlike Taiwan, I can't imagine anyone intervening unless the Chinese crossed the Urals.
Xi might even pull it off and be known in (Chinese) history books as "the conqueror of Siberia" as opposed to "the guy who fricked up Covid and ruined the economy so bad it set China back forty years".
That all being said, the Russians' military efforts would have a negligible effect on the outcome.
>In a hypothetical war between China and Russia, who would win?
The rest of the world