>As an overture to a potential deal, the German chancellor is also understood to be in talks over lifting Berlin’s veto on a delivery of Eurofighter Typhoon jets to Saudi Arabia, which the UK views as an important strategic priority.
>“When France says European defence policy, it means French industrial interests,” a senior source in Germany’s ruling coalition said. “Scholz feels he has far more in common with the British than with the French on these issues.”
>“When France says European defence policy, it means French industrial interests,” a senior source in Germany’s ruling coalition said.
Wer hat's gewusst? Wieder Keiner!
Here's hoping they don't get equal partnership in GCAP. German's have nothing to contribute to 6th gen aircraft development and with the project so far along renegotiating everything would be cause for delay. Plus cutting the Germans in means you're subject to their retarded domestic politics fucking up your exports. Give them observer status and a place at the front of the queue, but nothing else.
>“When France says European defence policy, it means French industrial interests,”
Brutal but accurate. Probably why no one in Europe takes France's calls for "strategic autonomy" seriously, when all that really means is "give your money to us instead of America".
We WILL bomb London again and this time you will thank us for it.
You are ill and the British are the most hated European tourists on the continent, with Australians taking the international spot.
[...]
?
Tourists being pieces of shit is annoying, but at least they leave after a week or two.
Having to work with an asshole is an entirely different kind of hell.
It probably helps that Britain holds its scientists and engineers in disdain and so is exctatic to hand workshare out if it means slightly lower capital expenditure for the treasury.
All work will be finance and hospitality, and you will like it.
I *am* a British scientist (materials science, optics & spectroscopy, computational modelling). I'm aware the public hold us in esteem, similar to medical professionals. However our salaries are utter trash compared to other professions with similar lengthy education requirements. I now make around average wage (~£35-40k) after effectively living in poverty for 4 years while doing my PhD and multiple years of inconsistent funding as a postdoc. I have multiple years of industry experience now as well. My peers that went straight into software engineering from undergrad earn >1.5x what I do, and my American equivalents are on six figures. At 33 y/o I can't even afford to live alone in a 1 bed flat near where I work. It fucking sucks.
That is why I say the UK holds it's scientists and engineers in disdain. They love what we do, but don't want to pay us enough to maintain a basic standard of living.
yeah it's fucking whack. This country could be a great place if only we could rid ourselves of the incompetent ruling class. I swear we have the most useless political leaders in 1st world Europe. Absolutely committed to running shit into the ground and making any other country an attractive expat propsect
You're not wrong, the saddest thing is that I do love our rainy little island and so I'm probably just going to carry on sucking it up in the hope that the public votes in a new set of clowns that may feel like increasing our research council funding. It's currently only about half that of what other similar economies spend as a proportion of GDP.
I know it's not going to happen, but I can dream.
1 month ago
Anonymous
the nordics have this shit sorted. They pay their teachers and scientists well, and in return they don't leave the country and make it better
Different anon, but the USA is too neat and tidy and there's no viking magic. People say what they mean and don't speak in ironic riddles. It's not weird enough, nobody drinks properly. My wife's dad lives in the USA and literally offered me a job if we both wanted to move there but the UK is just too fucking cosy for us. I found being in the suburbs of the USA creepy, everything is too neat, too flat, too mowed, not enough chaotic woodland, and whenever someone drops and smashes a glass in a bar nobody cheers. I think if I return I need to hang out with some hicks in the south or something
1 month ago
Anonymous
I am that anon, and you get it. The only place I'd consider would be New England because when I went I found it just about crinkly enough to not creep me out, but it's expensive as fuck there too. I've been to Cali, fucking hated it. Utterly soulless. Not been to the southwest US but I hear good things.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>I found being in the suburbs of the USA creepy, everything is too neat, too flat, too mowed,
nagger you fell for israeli hollywood propaganda, just don't move into a suburb if you don't like that.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I like suburbs, just not your ones
1 month ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/6YR5yzU.jpg
hills, complete chaos of planning, trees fucking everywhere. It's the difference between building on thousands of years of buildings and opening cities skylines and selecting "new game". It creeped me out. I got sick of living in cities so even though the USQA has incredible cities I don't think it would be for me.
I reckon redneck neighbourhoods would be more fun. Plinking in the swamps sounds cosy as fuck. But I'll take the rifle range for now (as it's all I can get obvs)
I'm from a village in Germany that has been settled before people figured out how to use iron, anon.
I'm just not blackpilled about America based on depictions of it in hollywood by people who hate America. That shit goes all the way back to the 50s. Go watch "All That Heaven Allows," the shtick's old.
Consider just moving there, buying some land asap and building your own shit on it, I talked to a czechslovakian guy who came over to America after the war once who did exactly that. Should still be possible if you get a good salary.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I'm not blackpilled on america, I just didn't like the tiny slice of it where my wife's dad lives. I think i just need to find the right area. The big advantage of the USA is it's so fucking vast you can probably find anything. I would want to go back for sure, just to whatever place is the opposite of that
1 month ago
Anonymous
hills, complete chaos of planning, trees fucking everywhere. It's the difference between building on thousands of years of buildings and opening cities skylines and selecting "new game". It creeped me out. I got sick of living in cities so even though the USQA has incredible cities I don't think it would be for me.
I reckon redneck neighbourhoods would be more fun. Plinking in the swamps sounds cosy as fuck. But I'll take the rifle range for now (as it's all I can get obvs)
1 month ago
Anonymous
This is some serious cope. You sound like a woman.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Nothing to cope with, it's just the culture in the USA is very weird for the typical bong, IE:
I am that anon, and you get it. The only place I'd consider would be New England because when I went I found it just about crinkly enough to not creep me out, but it's expensive as fuck there too. I've been to Cali, fucking hated it. Utterly soulless. Not been to the southwest US but I hear good things.
Wherever in the USA you find shit that's weird, old, rough around the edges, where nobody takes things seriously, and where people appreciate PrepHole grade dumb humour in public, that's where I'd wanna go. I'd rather spend the night in some shithole bar with a sign hanging off the door than deal with the squeaky clean bits, it just seems like you'll find more interesting people to drink with.
The French are spiritually and culturally slavo-mongoloids. They are honorary Russians in all respects except for their Catholicism which at least is honest and not a cesaro-papist arm of the Etats-General
>As an overture to a potential deal, the German chancellor is also understood to be in talks over lifting Berlin’s veto on a delivery of Eurofighter Typhoon jets to Saudi Arabia, which the UK views as an important strategic priority.
they already fucked over the EF multiple times throughout it's life. Why would they want the same again? I doubt Italy wants them either as a EF partner and Japan definitely doesn't want anyone else to slow the program down.
>Implying that Germany could stop being a bunch of retards and accept junior partnership.
Germany has a history of making crazy demands on workshare while having a non-existent aerospace industry. If they could sit down and be quiet while letting more competent people with established industries make decisions and do the work then they likely wouldn't be in this predicament rn.
>Germany has a history of making crazy demands on workshare
Absolutely false. That's France. Germany had a history of being very generous with workshare.
See IRIS, Leopards, Boxers, Lynxes, G3s, etc.
It won't see [...] >What we fear is Saudi Arabia doing some kind of retaliation against us if we don’t vote their way and [Saudi Arabia] saying ‘if we can’t export to China, we will veto your export as well’ to countries of interest,” he said, such as with South and Southeast Asian countries like India, which Japan sees as a valuable export market with close ties with Saudi Arabia.
Japan doesn't want any new people who will abuse veto powers (exactly what Germany has a history of doing) and the UK doesn't want Germany specifically to have veto powers. All 3 current members don't want a new nation to fuck up time tables and negotiations as final talks about cost and work share are about to conclude. Including a new member would fuck up both things so it will never happen.
>new people who will abuse veto powers (exactly what Germany has a history of doing)
I don't think you know what abuse means.
Keep seething though.
Nobody wants to work with the Germans, Bundestag has to approve any payment over 50m€ and sperg out about exports and retarded requirements, the Times is clickbaiting as always
>Nobody wants to work with the Germans,
Germany has a ton of successful cooperations and partnerships under its belt.
There's a reason why smaller countries prefer to merge their Army with the Bundeswehr and nobody wants to be under French command.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>and nobody wants to be under French command
Belgium would like to have word with you..
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Absolutely false. That's France.
And to a lesser degree Britain, actually. But contrary to other fields in aviation, naval stuff (and nuclear power but that's irrelevant here) they actually have good tech to contribute. >Germany has a ton of successful cooperations and partnerships under its belt.
The upcoming big European Air Defence project also comes to mind.
>and nobody wants to be under French command
Belgium would like to have word with you..
>Belgium would like to have word with you..
Not a real country, rejected by Germany, doesn't have an actual army and it's literally just fake France mixed with the fake Netherlands.
Contrary to countries with an actual claim to autonomy Belgians have been waiting to finally not be independent anymore for a very long time. The entire existence of the country is based on treaties that have no connection to the actual people there because greater powers needed a buffer state.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>literally just fake France mixed with the fake Netherlands
you forgot the tiny nugget of fake germany on the eastern side
1 month ago
Anonymous
>There's a reason why smaller countries prefer to merge their Army with the Bundeswehr and nobody wants to be under French command.
Le great Bundeswehr that needs a parliamentary authorization to move a single grunt overseas
Who would have thought? A joint project between Germany and France, two countries who have historically got allow just dandy, not working out. What a shame
I imagine Germany won't be getting a huge work share or design stake given the lateness of the decision - design approval is in 2025, and no one taking part is wanting delay.
I guess a smaller share something that happens is better than a bigger share of something that doesn't happen.
Has anyone even come up with a shopping list of things that defines 6th gen or are we all waiting for NGAD to hit frontline squadrons before it crystallises?
I imagine there will be endless threads come 2035 (GCAPs actual ISD, not 2030) rules lawyering about how it's not a 'real' 6th gen because it doesn't have 300Oz big gulp cup holders like NGAD.
We have a nebulous idea of what fighter generations are, but they are irrelevant since we compare fighters not based on their generations but capabilities, nobody says the Su-57 is better than the Raptor because they are a generation away.
Being the 51st state of the gratest country to ever exist is a pretty big win though.
>Has anyone even come up with a shopping list of things that defines 6th gen
It's unironically a marketing paradigm because there's no big scary nuclear bombers to frighten everyone after the 80s. It doesn't mean anything, it just convinces simple people that they're taxes aren't being wasted on stuff they don't really understand.
Like the F-35 "not" being fifth gen because it doesn't have supercruise. Supercruise would be a retarded design choice for a fighter/bomber that will spend most of its time on strike missions launched from pretty far from the targets being struck, and valuing other things was the intelligent decision. But that doesn't fit marketing definition, which just shows that it's a dumb definition.
Also I don't see anything sixth gen does that fifth gen doesn't or couldn't. So far all we've seen from six gen is just whatever fifth gen can do but more modern.
underrated post. Supercruise is an excellent example of a feature that isn't needed by a stealth jet with stand off weapons and an absurd suite of sensors
>Has anyone even come up with a shopping list of things that defines 6th gen
It's unironically a marketing paradigm because there's no big scary nuclear bombers to frighten everyone after the 80s. It doesn't mean anything, it just convinces simple people that they're taxes aren't being wasted on stuff they don't really understand.
Like the F-35 "not" being fifth gen because it doesn't have supercruise. Supercruise would be a retarded design choice for a fighter/bomber that will spend most of its time on strike missions launched from pretty far from the targets being struck, and valuing other things was the intelligent decision. But that doesn't fit marketing definition, which just shows that it's a dumb definition.
Also I don't see anything sixth gen does that fifth gen doesn't or couldn't. So far all we've seen from six gen is just whatever fifth gen can do but more modern.
The big thing around 6th gens seem to be steathly/low observation capabilities, plus advanced sensors and coms networking all the different systems together plus drone 'wingmen' or the plane itself being a drone with the option of having a human pilot onbaord to do some stuff.
A 6th gen fighter should be able to hit the enemy before they know they are even under attack, but 5th gen has that ability too. Even some 4th gen stuff will be able to get targeting data from somewhere else and use it to engage something they can see themselves.
5th gen only has low observability for radar and maybe IR, 6th gen seems to be targeting multispectrum low observability including the visual, but who the fuck knows until they show the NGAD if that's actually true.
>steathly/low observation capabilities, plus advanced sensors and coms networking all the different systems together plus drone 'wingmen'
So a 5th gen plus wingmen drones. F-35 will be 6th gen long before any other nation has a stealth plane flying by that definition.
6th generation will abandon traditional fighter concepts like dogfighting and maneuvering, or an internal gun. It is the last step toward 7th generation, where there's no longer a difference between fighter and bomber
A genuinely unrealistic plan, nor England, nor Italy, nor Japan has experience in full stack fighter jet development, let alone System of Systems.
For fuck sakes, look at the Dassault Rafale and how long it took them to get it to the full spec F3 standard, and they had much more experience in making jets than the British, Italians and the Japanese have today.
If you want to look at what workforce and know-how atrophy does to a sector, look no further than the Astute development, where the Americans has to step in to see it trough, for a country that is supposed to be 100% navy oriented, just because they didn't make a sub for a decade.
But then again, I am not smarter than people working on the thing so my opinion should be treated just as that, an opinion.
I imagine Germany will be allowed to buy them, but not benefit significantly from tech transfer or industrial contracts unless they can provably bring new capabilities to the table.
What can the German aviation industry bring that another partner can't already do better?
Yeah let them be a preferred customer or something, but no way in hell should they be given a slice of production unless they're ACTUALLY bringing something new that none of the other 3 can provide.
Yeah let them be a preferred customer or something, but no way in hell should they be given a slice of production unless they're ACTUALLY bringing something new that none of the other 3 can provide.
Germany has plenty of technology that can tie into aviation.
>NEED
If that would be relevant Britain could solo it, it'd just be shit.
No they don't.
[...]
Yes, I particularly enjoyed how the Australian politicians with a lot thicker pockets declared that Australians will not be employed to build Australian submarines but the country will remain an open-air mine with 0 technological relevance.
Butthurt frog detected.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Hey, I am not living in a mine country.
I hate Brits far more than Australians and Chinese and Indians far more than either of them.
Australians are just something else IMO.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I can smell the body odor and stale cigarettes from here.
AUKUS was amazing to watch, the French cope and butthurt in real time was honestly hilarious
Yes, I particularly enjoyed how the Australian politicians with a lot thicker pockets declared that Australians will not be employed to build Australian submarines but the country will remain an open-air mine with 0 technological relevance.
>not VLO gets shot down by SAM >radar only in the front, gets shot down by loyal wingman >has to sense it's own targets, gets shot down by long range air to air missile
I never really get all this stuff. The EF is one of the fastest high altitude interceptors in the west and the new AESA radar is pretty based. The Rafale is a better all rounder, but neither of these aircraft are "bad". Either one can shit on the typical Flanker variants seen in the wild. When the russkies shot down that drone they did it with a fucking R-27 Alamo from the 1980's. The meteors are a rediculous upgrade on the most commonly fielded slavshit missiles
>I win.
Your country is almost entirely reliant on Americans, what the fuck do you think people call you "the 51st state" all the time, but you celebrate these pathetic "victories", fucking freak.
France literally threw a shitfit over ESI - a framework for recommended air defence capabilities - because it didnt involve a commitment to buy french systems
>France did not join the German initiative as this would be against its commercial interests: it manufactures the SAMP/T medium-range system in cooperation with Italy. The French Armed Forces have eight SAMP/T batteries and four Crotale NG short-range batteries (with a total of eight to ten systems; two of them were likely delivered to Kyiv). Paris claims that ESSI favours not only German but also non-European technologies (specifically US and Israeli). Macron’s speech at the meeting on 19 June also revealed France’s different view on the development of air defence capabilities in Europe. France does not want the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which Macron has defined as a ‘dated’ conflict, to set the trends for developing NATO countries’ military capabilities. In his opinion, the risk of a Russian military attack against a NATO ally is low. While France is inclined to support strengthening collective defence to a certain extent, it claims that European NATO members should invest more in their own technological and industrial base rather than in foreign purchases, and take into account new types of threats to cyber domain, space and seabed infrastructure, as well as in the field of air defence, such as countering drones. Such priorities are included in the French Military Programming Law for 2024–30, which is currently being debated in the parliament. Moreover, France believes that the concept of an extensive European Sky Shield is not only costly and unrealistic, but is also controversial in strategic terms. For France, nuclear deterrence alone is a strong protection for the Alliance against a Russian attack. Macron fears that a decisive strengthening of ballistic missile defences (Arrow-3 systems) may prompt Moscow to further develop offensive capabilities that would undermine the effectiveness of French nuclear deterrence.
>Macron fears that a decisive strengthening of ballistic missile defences (Arrow-3 systems) may prompt Moscow to further develop offensive capabilities that would undermine the effectiveness of French nuclear deterrence
Are the french retarded or what?
lol, keep seething
French MIC is superior to any other European, simple reality that France is now the second largest exporter of weapons on the planet will be sufficient even for the most hardcore mouthbreathers
US already confirmed NGAD isn't going to be exported, they're open to sharing 6th gen technologies with close allies for THEIR 6th gen programs, but the US has already said they have no plans to produce an export 6th gen, at least for now.
F/A-XX is also NGAD, and also won't be exported. >The F/A-XX is expected to be the manned fighter component and centerpiece of the Navy's Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) family of systems
Also who the fuck else would want a catapult launched 6th gen except maybe China and France?
Navy NGAD is unrelated to the Airforce NGAD, they are entirely seperate programs. Also plenty of countries already operate F-18s without having carriers.
https://i.imgur.com/BHUM2Qa.jpg
The Boeing "project"?
Boy, have you seen the state of fucking Boeing?
To the picrel also add the statement from few weeks back from Boeing that basically means they can't make money on commercial jets.
Which will allow them to focus on my beloved F/A-XX
>Navy NGAD is unrelated to the Airforce NGAD, they are entirely seperate programs. Also plenty of countries already operate F-18s without having carriers.
Correct, and NEITHER NGAD will be available for export, what are you not understanding?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Incorrect F/A-XX will be widely exported. It will be the greatest military asset to ever take flight.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>source: my ass
sick bro
1 month ago
Anonymous
F/A-XX there are approximately 3 countries that'd be interested in buying a Naval version and those are the USA, the UK and France. No one else has a carrier that can do much better than VTOL/STOVL and we aren't about to sell to China.
The UK probably won't buy in favor of their own program as we see here and France would rather go without and just make their carrier worthless than buy American.
So no it won't be purchased. And that's assuming it does get allowed for export which it won't..
1 month ago
Anonymous
How many of these countries operate carriers?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Super hornets =/= Hornets dumbass
1 month ago
Anonymous
What are you trying to say with this irrelevant comment?
1 month ago
Anonymous
That the Super hornets that the navy is looking to replace (only used by the US and Australia) are not the same as the Hornets which your pic is showing.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Irrelevant. You were saying that only countries that operate carriers would be interested in F/A-XX. Clearly you're wrong as many countries operate the F/A-18 without also operating carriers. I don't know how you were able to interpret this in any ither way.
1 month ago
Anonymous
No 6th gen fighters will be sold and Boeing will certainly not develop a 6th gen carrier fighter.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Only countries that operate carriers will be interested in fielding carrier based planes >But what about these non-carrier based planes
is not an argument.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>F/A-18s aren't carrier based
Are you retarded?
1 month ago
Anonymous
I mean, he's not WRONG, the hornet and super hornet are carrier-based planes that are operated by non-carrier militaries.
He's still retarded though because the US isn't going to sell it to anyone even if they did want it.
1 month ago
Anonymous
No one can afford the $250m+ per airframe that the F/A-XX will likely cost anyway, and it still won't be allowed for export because congress isn't totally retarded despite what they want you to think.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The F/A-18 was designed as a cheap fighter. F/A-XX is not. Export is not impossible but it won't be the sales success the Hornet was.
1 month ago
Anonymous
lol
Predictable outcome all things considered, they couldn't even agree on MGCS which is a far less intensive development project, and with such different needs and goals a 6th gen aircraft was only going to go one way for them. I wonder what the French will do if Germany withdraws from the project though. They almost certainly lack the funding to keep it afloat themselves and they have no experience with 5th gen aircraft. Will they just put the project on ice?
Qatar and Saudi Arabia were being mentioned as potential backups for New Turkey, but that is literally he-said-she-said, bit it certainly makes sense since Germany doesn't have anything but money to offer to these kinds of projects. >and they have no experience with 5th gen aircraft
Rafale is more 5th gen than some of the established 5th gen fighters.
The F4.1 standard is an impressive machine and it is mainly French built, even down to CPUs.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Saudis would be a natural partnership given they tried to join GCAP but got cockblocked by Japan. Not sure they could contribute much beyond funding but with the way the French operate maybe they'd prefer that. I imagine Turkey would jump at the opportunity if they got tech transfers but nobody's been willing to grant them that just yet. It'll be interesting to see how it evolves. I suspect it'll be the most different of the 6th gen projects assuming it actually gets built.
The Boeing "project"?
Boy, have you seen the state of fucking Boeing?
To the picrel also add the statement from few weeks back from Boeing that basically means they can't make money on commercial jets.
They're way behind schedule and sinking gross amounts of cash into Spirit despite its continual fuckups.
Starliner still has faulty parachutes and flammable cable insulation.
SLS is never going to be real and will probably be mogged by Starship in the near future, despite originally "competing" with Falcon Heavy.
You spend too much time on /k/.
This place is crawling with Germans, English(especially these) and Polish shills that absolutely hate France, also sprinkle a bit of American ignorance for good measure.
You are ill and the British are the most hated European tourists on the continent, with Australians taking the international spot.
It'll never get old how frogs pathologically need to cope that only retarded Americans trace a lot of assholery from the French back to the French.
Your post should be framed and displayed in your Louvre hole.
>tourists
Who cares about tourists? Only subhumans care about the tourist industry.
Frogs are disgusting retards in general, I don't need to single out any group of frenchmen, it's literally all of them.
I bet your country doesn't have a fraction of French contributions to humanity, I also bet that you never even interacted with a French person in a non-formal maner.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>I bet your country doesn't have a fraction of French contributions to humanity,
The French revolution ruined humanity. >blabla
I've talked to plenty of frogs and worked with some.
You're all thin skinned retards with huge egos and somehow you're still insanely insecure.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>The French revolution ruined humanity
The French created the modern world and you can only seethe. >I've talked to plenty of frogs and worked with some.
You're all thin skinned retards with huge egos and somehow you're still insanely insecure
sure you did
Oh shut up frogs. You fuckers couldn't even handle losing a wine competition not once but twice to California.
k
1 month ago
Anonymous
Where can I find a good brasserie in France? Preferably the East/South East. I want some steak tar-tar and frites.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>denial and whining
Kek, name a single major issue in the western world that wasn't caused by the French revolution. I'll wait.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Kek, name a single major issue in the western world that wasn't caused by the French revolution.
AIDS.
1 month ago
Anonymous
AIDS is only a major issue in Russia and Ukraine in Europe.
Neither of which are part of "the west"
1 month ago
Anonymous
>AIDS, a disease theorised to be caused by sexual relations with primates in southern Cameroon, a former French colony
uhh, Anon. I have some bad news for you.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>>AIDS, a disease theorised to be caused by sexual relations with primates in southern Cameroon, a former French colony
Congo, you retard, which was Belgian.
If you had wanted to lie easily you could have used the French-Canadian connection, since burgers blamed a flight attendant from Montreal to be patient zero for the longest time, but it was figured out after a while patient zero was actually a scandinavian.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Both HIV-1 and HIV-2 are believed to have originated in non-human primates in West-central Africa and were transferred to humans in the early 20th century.[24] HIV-1 appears to have originated in southern Cameroon through the evolution of SIV(cpz), a simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) that infects wild chimpanzees (HIV-1 descends from the SIVcpz endemic in the chimpanzee subspecies Pan troglodytes troglodytes).[259][260]
Whether they fucked the chimp or ate it, it's believable that it was a Frenchman that did it.
1 month ago
Anonymous
> It is not impossible despite any evidence to support the theory, that maybe this unlikely thing happened. So obviously it did.
What kind of cunt are you?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Yeah so the French are the big baddies
You overestimate yourself.
You're just greedy, completely selfish, self-centered and dishonest.
You're not the big baddies, you're just shitty to work with, which every nation in Europe seems to relearn every 20-30 years.
Germany has a ton of successful cooperative projects under its belt in Europe, Britain has seen success with them too.
French projects only work out when all partners agree to make it all about France, which rarely happens.
>"France could be here" he thought.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The shit you are thinking about was caused by a Germanic ideology, the only successful one, Libertarian Capitalism.
1 month ago
Anonymous
That's the most retarded cope I've ever heard.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>The French created the modern world and you can only seethe.
that would unironically be an honour belonging far more to the british
1 month ago
Anonymous
>The French created the modern world
Imagine being French so hard that you think Anglo history is yours if you just say it is.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Don't you have another Palestine riot to put down Pierre? Your country is only 80% French and declining. Same is true for the USA but at least the migrants flooding in are Christian and don't riot because a cop defended himself from getting run over.
I really should get the shekels together to visit France within the next 10-15 years because after that it will be a complete muzzie shitshow.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Oh shut up frogs. You fuckers couldn't even handle losing a wine competition not once but twice to California.
>Most hated European tourists
Not my problem half of the continent is forced to cater to my nation and is required to build miniture Englands to service our needs. The continents economies crumble when the mighty subburnt bong doesnt arrive.
Now uno beero seniorito
Okay, I'll give you that British going to Portugal and Spain to jump off of balconies and have built little communities is funny.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Jump off
How dare you, we fall off due to terrible building regulations and the continents relaxed attitude to alcohol tax enabling us to purchase a Pint for a single Euro. >Portugal and Spain
My guy France is one of the worst >"You've got the British coming over with their money and buying up all these old houses and renovating them. A lot of the French couldn't afford what we've bought, and that's where the divide comes."
Dordogne is now Dordogneshire
It'll never get old how frogs pathologically need to cope that only retarded Americans trace a lot of assholery from the French back to the French.
Your post should be framed and displayed in your Louvre hole.
More people getting tired of France's shit. Also, it's one thing to support your neighbor when doing so also has some benefit for you, mutual prosperity and success and all, at the cost of optimization, right up until the whole world gets jump-scared and now what matters most is having the best shit and ideally, getting it efficiently.
Predictable outcome all things considered, they couldn't even agree on MGCS which is a far less intensive development project, and with such different needs and goals a 6th gen aircraft was only going to go one way for them. I wonder what the French will do if Germany withdraws from the project though. They almost certainly lack the funding to keep it afloat themselves and they have no experience with 5th gen aircraft. Will they just put the project on ice?
So you're saying euros will be locked out of 6th Gen until the US decides to make it's second 6th Gen then? We really should vassalize europe for realsies.
I'd fucking hope so. Every professional project I've had with frogs felt like chewing barbed wire.
They're arrogant, lazy, incompetent and thin skinned.
I wonder what's the success to fail ratio of French coop programs.
Seems like the frogs keep getting buttfucked in every international dealings they go into, which to be frank is probably due to their very autistic nature in dealing with these types programs.
>Seems like the frogs keep getting buttfucked in every international dealings they go into
They try to buttfuck everybody else.
People are tired of it, nobody wants to deal with them anymore.
>They try to buttfuck everybody else.
Yeah so the French are the big baddies for some reasons and everyone else are little angels, special mention for the German right? It's not like they would use the veto on Eurofigther sale to Saudi Arabia as a bargaining tool for the Tempest program, right?
>Yeah so the French are the big baddies
You overestimate yourself.
You're just greedy, completely selfish, self-centered and dishonest.
You're not the big baddies, you're just shitty to work with, which every nation in Europe seems to relearn every 20-30 years.
Germany has a ton of successful cooperative projects under its belt in Europe, Britain has seen success with them too.
French projects only work out when all partners agree to make it all about France, which rarely happens.
IRIS included about a dozen different nations under German leadership, most countries with Leopards developed yjeir own local versions with German cooperation (but let's just count that as one) and the boxer was a German-Dutch cooperation.
That wasn't even hard.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>most countries with Leopards developed yjeir own local versions with German cooperation
So the F-16 is a multinational airplane and not American, gotcha.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Depends, does every nation get to make their own, version and produce it themselves if they want to?
>Counting the Leopard
See above. Stay mad because nobody wants to work with frogs.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The Rafale/Mirage series got customized exactly the same way
>How are they doing these days?
Is that supposed to mean something? Do you think sailboats were a failure because they're only popular as pleasure craft today?
I feel a bit bad for the spanish. I don't understand why'd they agree to partner with the two biggest pains in the ass on the continent when it comes to military development.
>Holy shit thank you Germany for killing every cooperation project
The only thing Scholz did wrong was not axe cooperation with the baguettes earlier. Everybody gets sick of their shit eventually, he was way too patient.
There is talk that the project is basically dead in the water but I wouldn't bet on it.
Saudis would be a natural partnership given they tried to join GCAP but got cockblocked by Japan. Not sure they could contribute much beyond funding but with the way the French operate maybe they'd prefer that. I imagine Turkey would jump at the opportunity if they got tech transfers but nobody's been willing to grant them that just yet. It'll be interesting to see how it evolves. I suspect it'll be the most different of the 6th gen projects assuming it actually gets built.
Yes, France is basically just looking for a cashdaddy for Dassault, MBDA, Thales and others so they can do their shit properly but Germans seem to misunderstand their position, consistently.
>How are they doing these days?
Is that supposed to mean something? Do you think sailboats were a failure because they're only popular as pleasure craft today?
Where can I find a good brasserie in France? Preferably the East/South East. I want some steak tar-tar and frites.
I dunno, you seems to be a cavern where your ass should be and you've so far found everything there I'm not French, you're just retarded and post too much.
I lived in your godforsaken country. You are still upset about losing your colonies and not being a super power. France will never rise again and you will be the bitch of Europe.
Why didn't Germany join GCAP to begin with? They have the most similar needs, or at least far more aligned than that of Germany and France. Seems kind of obvious that you should join projects that actually meet your needs. Was it just politics at play? The two big EU players trying to build up military cooperation?
The issue is that you're a teenager with the memory of a goldfish. We're talking about a program that is a year old vs another that has been at least in serious talks for a decade.
Depends, does every nation get to make their own, version and produce it themselves if they want to?
[...]
See above. Stay mad because nobody wants to work with frogs.
The Leopard fulfills the condition the F16 doesn't.
Locally produced specialized models created in cooperation.
Nobody builds entire F16s as their own versions except for America.
>We're talking about a program that is a year old vs another that has been at least in serious talks for a decade
GCAP didn't spawn in a vacuum, it came as a result of Tempest and F-X merging. Stop being autistic you fucking retard.
No, those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start. The technology demonstrator that Japan flew now has nothing to do with what the finished plane will look like and it is clear that all countries involved are trying to just share risk without pursuing the actual air frames they were planning on originally.
The Leopard fulfills the condition the F16 doesn't.
Locally produced specialized models created in cooperation.
Nobody builds entire F16s as their own versions except for America.
It does not, and it was just explained why. No, you don't get to say "Depends" and things suddenly change. If F-16 is an American plane then Leopard is just a German tank.
F-5 is another example of an American plane and MOST of those were made entirely outside of America.
>those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other
GCAP is literally the product of the UK and Japan merging their 6th gen programs. I don't know how or why you're even claiming this isn't true. It's indisputably the case.
The text you quoted doesn't say that. The point is that it's not "just a merger". It's a new program, at best just using some technology from the older programs.
This is like hearing the bullshit claim that the F-35B actually started with the Yak-41 because Lockheed bought the technology to apply it to the F-35B.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>GCAP didn't spawn in a vacuum, it came as a result of Tempest and F-X merging >those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other >GCAP is literally the product of the UK and Japan merging their 6th gen programs
And now you're backtracking. Just shut the fuck up you autist.
1 month ago
Anonymous
ESL? The word "had" doesn't mean what you think it means.
1 month ago
Anonymous
What even is your point? You're claiming GCAP has nothing to do with Tempest or F-X despite it literally being a result of the projects merging. You said something retarded and now you're just backtracking to pretend you ever had a point to begin with lmao. Eat shit.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>You're claiming GCAP has nothing to do with Tempest or F-X
Quote where I said this.
Reminder, you don't know what the word "had" means. ESL get out.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start
You claimed GCAP is a fresh start and therefore has nothing to do with Tempest or F-X, despite literally being the result of the two projects merging. I accept your concession.
1 month ago
Anonymous
That's weird, the greentext in this post uses the word "had", yet the greentext in
>You're claiming GCAP has nothing to do with Tempest or F-X
Quote where I said this.
Reminder, you don't know what the word "had" means. ESL get out.
doesn't, it specifically goes out of its way to change the word to "has". It's almost as though an ESL can't speak English yet is trying to argue in that language.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>the projects had nothing to do with each other until they did
Are you genuinely this retarded? Yes, things aren't usually the case until they are you retard. That's literally how semantics work. Claiming that GCAP isn't the product of Tempest and F-X merging is still braindead no matter how you try to frame it. In case you forgot >those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start
This is what you said.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>the projects had nothing to do with each other until they did
That's right, keep trying to claim this is how things work and there's no other obvious conditions that set GCAP as a restart. I'm sure the two different programs used the same engines, airframe, radar, electronics, weapons, etc.
The reason GCAP exists is because all participating countries would logically refuse to fund separate programs, yet only decided this when they were both halfway through those separate programs. That's not "just a merger". That's a restart.
Going back to the F-35B for a second, the VTOL system for the plane goes back to around 1992 in the form of different programs investigating potential new VTOL designs that might make their way into a fighter. This is usually when F-35 development is usually cited as starting, even though this is only the case through a merger of those early programs into a general fighter program. The difference, of course, being that the early programs were merged because... they're supposed to be merged. A VTOL research program is only considered a success if it proves itself enough to be considered functional for a separate plane program, which is what happened.
Meanwhile Tempest and F-X literally just had nothing to do with each other. GCAP development didn't start years ago, and up until recently all money and engineering was still directed towards two discontinued projects that weren't meant to merge.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>claims GCAP is a fresh start detached from it's predecessors despite being the product of Tempest and F-X merging >goes on semantic pant shitting rants to distract from this >keeps backtracking because his bullshit is verifiably false and has been called out
Could have saved yourself all this embarrassment by just keeping quiet about things you don't understand lmao. Total clown. >GCAP development didn't start years ago
But the parent projects did which is why your original point makes no sense. Germany had other options and didn't need to settle for FCAS which didn't align with their needs.
Once again, I accept your concession.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>semantics
ESL shouldn't use words they don't understand. Intent, point of view, wasted effort, and most importantly current engineering/financial disposition of a project has nothing to do with semantics. >Once again, I accept your concession.
You are wrong and it has been explained why.
You can start going back to changing a word like "had" to "has" in order to try and change an argument and then squeal about semantics while claiming you won an internet argument that you lost on the get-go.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>ESL shouldn't use words they don't understand
Screaming ESL isn't an argument, especially when your claims have been exposed as verifiably false. >You can start going back to changing a word like "had" to "has"
Semantics that had nothing to do with the argument to begin with. You claimed GCAP is a fresh start rather than the product of Tempest and F-X merging, this is false and everything after that has just been you backtracking and obfuscating to avoid admitting as much. You made a false claim from the get-go and you can't accept that, but I'll accept your concession happily.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Screaming ESL isn't an argument
It is when you're ESL and pick and argument over your lack of understanding.
>Semantics that had nothing to do with the argument to begin with >goes on semantic pant shitting rants
>this is false and everything after that has just been you backtracking and obfuscating
I have not once done this, you've just been retarded and can't read.
You can stop talking about concession. You're wrong and angry.
https://i.imgur.com/zNr7roZ.jpg
>Meanwhile Tempest and F-X literally just had nothing to do with each other. GCAP development didn't start years ago, and up until recently all money and engineering was still directed towards two discontinued projects that weren't meant to merge.
I mean sure except that there already was collaboration on some systems like the Jaguar radar even prior to Tempest or GCAP. >Shortly after the announcement of the engine program, it was revealed that Leonardo UK will work with Japanese industry on the Jaguar, an advanced multifunction AESA radar program that builds on radar expertise developed in each country. >Work on the Jaguar predates the creation of Team Tempest, says Andrew Howard, Leonardo’s director for major air programs and the senior responsible officer for the company’s contribution to the Tempest program.
You also have the engines where it just continued off previous work. >More recently, Rolls-Royce and IHI Corp. have begun working on a joint future fighter engine demonstrator, which will build on IHI’s work on its advanced XF9-1 experimental powerplant and Rolls-Royce’s work on the XG240, the power system destined for the Tempest
You seem to forget or don't realize that both Tempest and F-X were just sub-systems research and figuring out what each country wanted for their program. It wasn't hard to just slap the research each country was doing into one. For example prior to the merger Japan was doing studies on airframe manufacturing methods which dates back to even before F-X when they were doing the DMU studies. That is now being used for GCAP. Literally nothing from Tempest or F-X was thrown out because neither had anything concrete enough to even be considered cut.
IHI Corp provides work for many military jet engines internationally, especially insulation. That doesn't mean the Tempest's engine was ever a Japanese engine IHI actually did a lot of work that will surely just be thrown out in favor of Rolls-Royce's engine being as it is overall more advanced. There was never an intention to provide technology to Rolls-Royce for the potential of merging projects later. That is, to say, the effort of IHI working on jet engine research for F-X doesn't just automatically apply to GCAP, and even if something does, it's still a shitload of wasted effort overall. Either a great deal of work will be redone or one party will just accept the engine being developed by the other as the new default engine of the joint program (which really means that one program is being canceled, not two programs being merged).
IHI worked on the F135 and F136 engines, too. They're not Japanese engines and it'd be really weird if some program merger happened later.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start
This is what you stated. No amount of screaming interpretation or misunderstanding is going to change the fact you made a bogus claim from the get go. Now fuck off you autist.
1 month ago
Anonymous
That quote is true and I haven't changed from that position once.
You are the one screaming interpretation and that claim isn't bogus. I've been very clear. Go away, ESL, you are wrong and can't talk.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>the product of a merger has nothing to do with it's parent projects it's totally just a new thing that spawned in a vacuum
If that's the hill you want to die on then go ahead, but it's patently retarded.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Great, you moved on from changing "had" to "has" to just writing what is obviously your sentence and attributing it to someone else.
Let's be clear. You can't read. You also can't write. Or probably think.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The post you originally took issue with and replied to was >GCAP didn't spawn in a vacuum, it came as a result of Tempest and F-X merging
To which you responded >No, those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start
You can try and backtrack all you want, but your position is that the product of the merger has nothing to do with it's parent projects and that it somehow spawned in a vacuum. Obviously you've been trying to backtrack and obfuscate the whole time but the posts are still there, you can go back and witness your retardation in all it's glory if you're interested in reliving it.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Great, you moved on from changing "had" to "has" to just writing what is obviously your sentence and attributing it to someone else.
Let's be clear. You can't read. You also can't write. Or probably think.
Non-native English speakers arguing in such silly ways.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>IHI Corp provides work for many military jet engines internationally, especially insulation. That doesn't mean the Tempest's engine was ever a Japanese engine IHI actually did a lot of work that will surely just be thrown out in favor of Rolls-Royce's engine being as it is overall more advanced.
Has there even been an engine demonstrator from RR yet? We have no clue about what RR is even offering past some CGI promo vids. Even their test bed for intake shape is just using an old EJ200. Regardless, the model shown at DSEI 2022 was of IHI's engine core so saying all of it being thrown out is disingenuous. Also Japan's TTB is the one doing engines testing. >There was never an intention to provide technology to Rolls-Royce for the potential of merging projects later.
See above and pic rel. Even if the original intention of the IHI engine wasn't it a merger, it still happened. >and even if something does, it's still a shitload of wasted effort overall.
According to what metric? Wouldn't throwing out a bunch of work on an engine that has numbers similar to an F119 more of a wasted effort? >Either a great deal of work will be redone or one party will just accept the engine being developed by the other as the new default engine of the joint program (which really means that one program is being canceled, not two programs being merged).
You don't realize how little work was put towards a final product for both Tempest and F-X. These programs were mainly research programs. There isn't a bunch of work to be redone because nothing was concrete. IHI had a tech demonstrator engine running at like 30% of the envisioned output and RR didn't even get that far. Neither was at the stage of putting together a finalized engine. You seem to think that both FX and Tempest had all these sub systems and airframe shapes finalized that will have to be discarded after the merger when both programs were only just beginning to figure out what they maybe wanted from a 6th gen aircraft.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Meanwhile Tempest and F-X literally just had nothing to do with each other. GCAP development didn't start years ago, and up until recently all money and engineering was still directed towards two discontinued projects that weren't meant to merge.
I mean sure except that there already was collaboration on some systems like the Jaguar radar even prior to Tempest or GCAP. >Shortly after the announcement of the engine program, it was revealed that Leonardo UK will work with Japanese industry on the Jaguar, an advanced multifunction AESA radar program that builds on radar expertise developed in each country. >Work on the Jaguar predates the creation of Team Tempest, says Andrew Howard, Leonardo’s director for major air programs and the senior responsible officer for the company’s contribution to the Tempest program.
You also have the engines where it just continued off previous work. >More recently, Rolls-Royce and IHI Corp. have begun working on a joint future fighter engine demonstrator, which will build on IHI’s work on its advanced XF9-1 experimental powerplant and Rolls-Royce’s work on the XG240, the power system destined for the Tempest
You seem to forget or don't realize that both Tempest and F-X were just sub-systems research and figuring out what each country wanted for their program. It wasn't hard to just slap the research each country was doing into one. For example prior to the merger Japan was doing studies on airframe manufacturing methods which dates back to even before F-X when they were doing the DMU studies. That is now being used for GCAP. Literally nothing from Tempest or F-X was thrown out because neither had anything concrete enough to even be considered cut.
Germany has been trying to do the European unity thing with France for like a decade now but despite the French being the ones to constantly talk about an independent Europe, they're the ones doing the least for European cooperation.
In other words
>“When France says European defence policy, it means French industrial interests,” a senior source in Germany’s ruling coalition said. “Scholz feels he has far more in common with the British than with the French on these issues.”
Verification not required
>“When France says European defence policy, it means French industrial interests,” a senior source in Germany’s ruling coalition said. “Scholz feels he has far more in common with the British than with the French on these issues.”
What has Germany done to progress towards European unity? Selling their asses off to Putin and pushing Britain away with the worst handled immigration crisis of all times?
>Selling their asses off to Putin
Kek, you actually fell for visegrad24 propaganda? >and pushing Britain away with the worst handled immigration crisis of all times?
Zoomer or just retarded?
Britain had been pushing itself away for decades because their far right wasted 30 years of resistance potential on railing against EU immigrants instead of darkies which led to Britain not having a real resistance party in their parliament to this day and even UKIP wanting to increase African immigration.
Things are fucked in the Crown land but that's not on Germany.
>Schroeder becoming Gasprom's bitchboy is visegrad24 propaganda
buddy, Germany would've gladly served Eastern Europe to Putin on a silver platter if it meant more cheap gas for their shitty industry
good thing daddy US bombed the pipeline so that is off the table kek
>Germany would've gladly served Eastern Europe to Putin on a silver platter
I bet you little PiShead actually believe that lmao
No, those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start. The technology demonstrator that Japan flew now has nothing to do with what the finished plane will look like and it is clear that all countries involved are trying to just share risk without pursuing the actual air frames they were planning on originally.
[...]
It does not, and it was just explained why. No, you don't get to say "Depends" and things suddenly change. If F-16 is an American plane then Leopard is just a German tank.
F-5 is another example of an American plane and MOST of those were made entirely outside of America.
>It does not, and it was just explained why. No, you don't get to say "Depends" and things suddenly change
But it didn't change, you brought up the F16, I asked you if it fulfilled the conditions the Leopard does, you said no.
Nothing changed about the actual conditions, you're the one who tried to shift the goalpost out of ignorance, anon.
Of course a German would defend 2015 and of course a German would be like 60 years old like the rest of his dying, childless nation
See above.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>you brought up the F16
Because it defeats your point by counterexample.
Everything else you're trying to claim just isn't true and you don't get to set conditions. Leopard isn't a multinational program.
I did not say F-16 doesn't "fit conditions", btw, I said >Depends, >No
That is very different.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Because it defeats your point by counterexample
But it doesn't because it's completely different as I've demonstrated.
You just don't know what you're talking about, anon. We talked about arms development cooperation. Do you have any idea how much work it is to get two countries to agree on the specs for a model like the stridsvagn and work out all the details?
Stuff like that is what sinks most projects.
1 month ago
Anonymous
it's cute that you want the bury the fact that Germany tried to stall arms supplies to Ukraine for as long as possible until the rest of NATO pressured them into ceasing that shit because secretely they wanted the war to be over so that the gas supplies could've gone on unhindered
1 month ago
Anonymous
>lies
Kek
None if that is true.
What is true is that France has barely sent anything, Poland threw Ukraine under the bus over some grain corrupt Polish officials let into their market and the only nation that has sent more arms than Germany is the USA.
1 month ago
Anonymous
lol you've barely sent anything for the first year but shitty helmets and DDR surplus
holy shit the audacity of you shitting on poles when they donated half of their stockpile as soon as the war kicked off while you kept making excuses, your contributions to Ukraine's war effort paled in comparison to the rest of the continent per capita
1 month ago
Anonymous
>lol you've barely sent anything for the first year
Kek
Schizo
1 month ago
Anonymous
LOL talking about audacity, the only reason Poland even send anything was Germany reassuring them they would compensate them for it. Face it the only nation allowed to criticize Germany in Ukraine would have been the US if they didn’t stall their abrams and jet deliveries
1 month ago
Anonymous
>if they didn’t stall their abrams and jet deliveries
Probably a good choice considering that the new speaker left Ukraine out of the budget.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Ukraine has never been part of the budget and never will be. Ukraine is funded separately.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Then why are Democrats crying about it?
1 month ago
Anonymous
They're not, They're upset that Israel IS in the budget proposal even though it shouldn't be. Also, it's just a proposal.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Nothing to see above you old ass subhuman. The current refugee crisis is also caused by Germany again because you have the oldest population and lowest birthrates in Europe without Mohammed. Just die off already and stop destroying Europe
1 month ago
Anonymous
>muh Germany
Funny how every nation opened its borders until the shitskins were at the German border but everybody ignores how they got there.
1 month ago
Anonymous
It’s almost like Germany sanctioned the countries not opening its border via the EU just like they still do with Eastern Europe.
>The current refugee crisis is also caused by Germany
Wasn't gaddafi killed because France meddled in the country and Obama was too retarded not to join in?
Who cares about Gaddafi, that was 2011. The refugee crisis started in 2015. The new refugee crisis started in 2021 and is fully payed and supported by the German gov.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>It’s almost like Germany sanctioned the countries not opening its border via the EU
Never happened, the EU isn't even fast enough in the best case scenario to push shit like that through in the month it took them to get to Germany. There are also about a dozen borders in-between Germany and Africa via the balkans land-route they took. >Who cares about Gaddafi, that was 2011.
The Arab spring caused it you stupid fuck.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>but everybody ignores how they got there.
I too think this, but not for poor Krautland...no for England, how the fuck are you EU dipshits letting these people filter across all those countries then to just mong about in France waiting to jump on a truck?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Ask Joe Biden when he finally visits the Southern border. Any day now!
1 month ago
Anonymous
He did that in janurary
1 month ago
Anonymous
That's based, anon. So how long did it take him to stop letting them all in unhindered afterwards?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>The current refugee crisis is also caused by Germany
Wasn't gaddafi killed because France meddled in the country and Obama was too retarded not to join in?
You don't understand how politics work and how long it takes to build the groundwork for a national party, they've also been making gains long before that.
How old are you?
Merkel. OP's article is retarded anyways since we will most likely just go full American with local production or something like the H-145M since it’s German + German made even if useless.
>Cant we get Poland onboard
They have no money or technology to contribute. >inb4 muh cheap workers
Politicians want yo employ their own people. Their workers also lack expertise.
We should subsidise them to annoy the Germans and French. It would be worth every penny.
Besides they must have some money theyve been on a big shopping spree for new kit.
1. Why the fuck would either nation care.
2. Poland is nearly as awful to work with as France.
The new government is probably a lot better in that regard but after all the bridges they burned in the last decade people aren't gonna line up to work with either nation.
1. Because both nations dont have a 6th gen and Poland having one would make them have a meltdown. It fits in well with the UK liking to fuck about with Euro politics.
2. Nah Polands sweet. France is fine too when they want to be, the Jaguar was a good bit of kit and the Concorde was amazing.
>Because both nations dont have a 6th gen and Poland having one would make them have a meltdown.
Why? >2. Nah Polands sweet
Okay, Pavel, it's time to return home.
>Frogs taking the L
Sorry frogbros. I work with a guy who migrated from France to the US and he always mentions that he has more in common with Americans than French. Even with his heavy French accent he speaks of the laziness of his former compatriots. His ambition in life demanded he leave France for France is for lazy state employees and those on welfare.
I genuinely wish I could like them but every frog I worked with has been a piece of shit. The only ones I liked or could tolerate are a minority of those I barely knew.
Honestly Germany + Spain + Italy + Sweden developing aircraft together would be worth it in the long run. Yeah, it would be expensive and take more time, but EU independence is a good idea.
Letting Britain take the lead again for a Eurofighter II would be a no-brainer but they fucked that up with Brexit.
Still it's insane that the French are so incredibly insufferable that Germany would prefer to work with partners outside of the EU.
Italy seems to work with the bongs I assume due to the similarity in being a water surrounded nation (barring Italy's mountain filled north but that a similar natural blocker as water.)
>enter joint fighter program with a nation with a carrier >get upset when they increase cost and complexity for carrier use
The Germans did this to themselves, several times.
The frog cope in this thread is hilarious.
You WILL be stuck using a 4.5 for the rest of time.
You WILL continue to lose contracts to the Anglos.
You WILL be forced to buy a downgraded mutt plane once the third-world catches up.
The brits don't want Germany [...] they already fucked over the EF multiple times throughout it's life. Why would they want the same again? I doubt Italy wants them either as a EF partner and Japan definitely doesn't want anyone else to slow the program down.
>What we fear is Saudi Arabia doing some kind of retaliation against us if we don’t vote their way and [Saudi Arabia] saying ‘if we can’t export to China, we will veto your export as well’ to countries of interest,” he said, such as with South and Southeast Asian countries like India, which Japan sees as a valuable export market with close ties with Saudi Arabia.
Japan doesn't want any new people who will abuse veto powers (exactly what Germany has a history of doing) and the UK doesn't want Germany specifically to have veto powers. All 3 current members don't want a new nation to fuck up time tables and negotiations as final talks about cost and work share are about to conclude. Including a new member would fuck up both things so it will never happen.
>”I wonder what they'll call the next one?”
Why would you end that with “?” when it’s not a question? You fucking ESL naggers really irritate the fuck out of me.
Nobody wants to work with the Germans, Bundestag has to approve any payment over 50m€ and sperg out about exports and retarded requirements, the Times is clickbaiting as always
>Eurofailure
This is kraut's biggest achievements, please make some NOOOOOISE
>pic related is a real plane for real men
Also fuck the Eurodrone, may this heavy piece of useless SHIT dive in the coldest part Northern Sea, FUCK FUCK I HATE BILATERAL COOPERATIONS WITH FUCKING GERMANY, WE SHOULD AVOID THOSE FUCKERS AT ALL COST AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I never went anywhere south of Orleans, i live in Lille, but it's a nice city and very (very) well connected to major places in Europe, there's plenty of great places in the Vieux Lille and the weather is not as shit as everyone say (it is shit though)
This is the average frog not being mad.
He might seem mad, but that's just normal to them and they're like that all the time to cope with life. You'll see the difference when they actually get mad.
Pic semi-related, a guy who made them mad like 150 years ago and they're still seething.
Eurodrone just makes frog naggers seethe because they couldn't strong arm their interests. Germany got everything they wanted, large capacity, long range, high altitude domestic surveillance capabilities with engine fallback. Absolutely perfect for the germans.
>Germany has a history of making crazy demands on workshare
Absolutely false. That's France. Germany had a history of being very generous with workshare.
See IRIS, Leopards, Boxers, Lynxes, G3s, etc.
[...] >new people who will abuse veto powers (exactly what Germany has a history of doing)
I don't think you know what abuse means.
Keep seething though.
[...] >Nobody wants to work with the Germans,
Germany has a ton of successful cooperations and partnerships under its belt.
There's a reason why smaller countries prefer to merge their Army with the Bundeswehr and nobody wants to be under French command.
Did we ever get any reliable news from the IRIS system in Ukraine? Is it any good?
You're gonna avoid the simple question of explaining your argument and thoughts here? I was asking why you think it's worse? Where do you see the issues with the Eurodrone capabilities? Why would a Reaper be better at domestic surveillance?
Are you gonna pretend you didn't read the question?
>Did we ever get any reliable news from the IRIS system in Ukraine? Is it any good? >reliable
Of course not, there's a war being fought. Nothing we get is reliable until about 10 years later at the very least.
BUT, the Ukies like it a lot.
The vile Kraut strikes again. I still don't get how this country exists after WW1 and WW2.
They will take any occasion to destroy europe: Import millions of sandnaggers, siding with Russia, killing the nuclear energy...
>As an overture to a potential deal, the German chancellor is also understood to be in talks over lifting Berlin’s veto on a delivery of Eurofighter Typhoon jets to Saudi Arabia, which the UK views as an important strategic priority.
Lil Scholz ain’t doing shit unless Baerbock tells him to. Unless Saudis stop genociding Muslims and Africans they ain’t getting the Typhoon
GOTT SCHÜTZE ENGLAND
I'll believe it when I read it from a german source.
I've read similar things when posting news about Italy, Sweden and Japan.
Now baguettes can't steal 6th gen secrets.
>Brits don't want us in GCAP because we may veto exports again
>veto Eurofighter export to force them to let us join anyway
God I want a German twink to treat me (sexually) the way Germany treats the rest of Europe.
>the way Germany treats the rest of Europe.
By getting gangbanged by Europe with Big Daddy America leading the ASSault?
Yes but just me as America. I then want him to talk down to me with his cute accent.
>“When France says European defence policy, it means French industrial interests,” a senior source in Germany’s ruling coalition said. “Scholz feels he has far more in common with the British than with the French on these issues.”
Verification not required
ENDLICH SACHTS MA EINA
The funny thing is that Germany thinks the same but pretend not to.
>Scholz
I wonder if torpedoing FCAS was a condition of his future Gazprom directorship
No need for that the french were involved in the collaboration.
Wrong chancellor, the former one Gerhard Schröder is Vladimir's BFF.
>“When France says European defence policy, it means French industrial interests,”
>“When France says European defence policy, it means French industrial interests,” a senior source in Germany’s ruling coalition said.
Wer hat's gewusst? Wieder Keiner!
Basierter Stoll Pfoster.
Here's hoping they don't get equal partnership in GCAP. German's have nothing to contribute to 6th gen aircraft development and with the project so far along renegotiating everything would be cause for delay. Plus cutting the Germans in means you're subject to their retarded domestic politics fucking up your exports. Give them observer status and a place at the front of the queue, but nothing else.
>“When France says European defence policy, it means French industrial interests,”
Brutal but accurate. Probably why no one in Europe takes France's calls for "strategic autonomy" seriously, when all that really means is "give your money to us instead of America".
>Germans identifying with the English
Didn’t go so well last time.
We WILL bomb London again and this time you will thank us for it.
Tourists being pieces of shit is annoying, but at least they leave after a week or two.
Having to work with an asshole is an entirely different kind of hell.
GERMANIC PRIDE EUROPE WIDE
It probably helps that Britain holds its scientists and engineers in disdain and so is exctatic to hand workshare out if it means slightly lower capital expenditure for the treasury.
All work will be finance and hospitality, and you will like it.
>It probably helps that Britain holds its scientists and engineers in disdain
British scientists are world leading, even the US and China struggle to match us. There's a reason the UK is leading the race for fusion.
I *am* a British scientist (materials science, optics & spectroscopy, computational modelling). I'm aware the public hold us in esteem, similar to medical professionals. However our salaries are utter trash compared to other professions with similar lengthy education requirements. I now make around average wage (~£35-40k) after effectively living in poverty for 4 years while doing my PhD and multiple years of inconsistent funding as a postdoc. I have multiple years of industry experience now as well. My peers that went straight into software engineering from undergrad earn >1.5x what I do, and my American equivalents are on six figures. At 33 y/o I can't even afford to live alone in a 1 bed flat near where I work. It fucking sucks.
That is why I say the UK holds it's scientists and engineers in disdain. They love what we do, but don't want to pay us enough to maintain a basic standard of living.
yeah it's fucking whack. This country could be a great place if only we could rid ourselves of the incompetent ruling class. I swear we have the most useless political leaders in 1st world Europe. Absolutely committed to running shit into the ground and making any other country an attractive expat propsect
You're not wrong, the saddest thing is that I do love our rainy little island and so I'm probably just going to carry on sucking it up in the hope that the public votes in a new set of clowns that may feel like increasing our research council funding. It's currently only about half that of what other similar economies spend as a proportion of GDP.
I know it's not going to happen, but I can dream.
the nordics have this shit sorted. They pay their teachers and scientists well, and in return they don't leave the country and make it better
Holy shit move ukanon. You would be getting 6 figures in the US
Different anon, but the USA is too neat and tidy and there's no viking magic. People say what they mean and don't speak in ironic riddles. It's not weird enough, nobody drinks properly. My wife's dad lives in the USA and literally offered me a job if we both wanted to move there but the UK is just too fucking cosy for us. I found being in the suburbs of the USA creepy, everything is too neat, too flat, too mowed, not enough chaotic woodland, and whenever someone drops and smashes a glass in a bar nobody cheers. I think if I return I need to hang out with some hicks in the south or something
I am that anon, and you get it. The only place I'd consider would be New England because when I went I found it just about crinkly enough to not creep me out, but it's expensive as fuck there too. I've been to Cali, fucking hated it. Utterly soulless. Not been to the southwest US but I hear good things.
>I found being in the suburbs of the USA creepy, everything is too neat, too flat, too mowed,
nagger you fell for israeli hollywood propaganda, just don't move into a suburb if you don't like that.
I like suburbs, just not your ones
I'm from a village in Germany that has been settled before people figured out how to use iron, anon.
I'm just not blackpilled about America based on depictions of it in hollywood by people who hate America. That shit goes all the way back to the 50s. Go watch "All That Heaven Allows," the shtick's old.
Consider just moving there, buying some land asap and building your own shit on it, I talked to a czechslovakian guy who came over to America after the war once who did exactly that. Should still be possible if you get a good salary.
I'm not blackpilled on america, I just didn't like the tiny slice of it where my wife's dad lives. I think i just need to find the right area. The big advantage of the USA is it's so fucking vast you can probably find anything. I would want to go back for sure, just to whatever place is the opposite of that
hills, complete chaos of planning, trees fucking everywhere. It's the difference between building on thousands of years of buildings and opening cities skylines and selecting "new game". It creeped me out. I got sick of living in cities so even though the USQA has incredible cities I don't think it would be for me.
I reckon redneck neighbourhoods would be more fun. Plinking in the swamps sounds cosy as fuck. But I'll take the rifle range for now (as it's all I can get obvs)
This is some serious cope. You sound like a woman.
Nothing to cope with, it's just the culture in the USA is very weird for the typical bong, IE:
Wherever in the USA you find shit that's weird, old, rough around the edges, where nobody takes things seriously, and where people appreciate PrepHole grade dumb humour in public, that's where I'd wanna go. I'd rather spend the night in some shithole bar with a sign hanging off the door than deal with the squeaky clean bits, it just seems like you'll find more interesting people to drink with.
What's the most Irish part of the USA?
Pure facts
The French are spiritually and culturally slavo-mongoloids. They are honorary Russians in all respects except for their Catholicism which at least is honest and not a cesaro-papist arm of the Etats-General
repeat of Franco-Prussian War when?
I don't think the Bundeswehr and its broomsticks are up for the task though
Don't worry, there are a couple million G3s in reserve waiting to be unleashed.
Not a good idea when 39 million Germans are over 60 years old
Less than 45k Germans died in the Franco Prussian war, I think they'll be fine.
This time, everyone against France
The brits don't want Germany
they already fucked over the EF multiple times throughout it's life. Why would they want the same again? I doubt Italy wants them either as a EF partner and Japan definitely doesn't want anyone else to slow the program down.
At this point I don't think Germany would be joining as a major partner to the project.
>Implying that Germany could stop being a bunch of retards and accept junior partnership.
Germany has a history of making crazy demands on workshare while having a non-existent aerospace industry. If they could sit down and be quiet while letting more competent people with established industries make decisions and do the work then they likely wouldn't be in this predicament rn.
>Germany has a history of making crazy demands on workshare
Absolutely false. That's France. Germany had a history of being very generous with workshare.
See IRIS, Leopards, Boxers, Lynxes, G3s, etc.
>new people who will abuse veto powers (exactly what Germany has a history of doing)
I don't think you know what abuse means.
Keep seething though.
>Nobody wants to work with the Germans,
Germany has a ton of successful cooperations and partnerships under its belt.
There's a reason why smaller countries prefer to merge their Army with the Bundeswehr and nobody wants to be under French command.
>and nobody wants to be under French command
Belgium would like to have word with you..
>Absolutely false. That's France.
And to a lesser degree Britain, actually. But contrary to other fields in aviation, naval stuff (and nuclear power but that's irrelevant here) they actually have good tech to contribute.
>Germany has a ton of successful cooperations and partnerships under its belt.
The upcoming big European Air Defence project also comes to mind.
>Belgium would like to have word with you..
Not a real country, rejected by Germany, doesn't have an actual army and it's literally just fake France mixed with the fake Netherlands.
Contrary to countries with an actual claim to autonomy Belgians have been waiting to finally not be independent anymore for a very long time. The entire existence of the country is based on treaties that have no connection to the actual people there because greater powers needed a buffer state.
>literally just fake France mixed with the fake Netherlands
you forgot the tiny nugget of fake germany on the eastern side
>There's a reason why smaller countries prefer to merge their Army with the Bundeswehr and nobody wants to be under French command.
Le great Bundeswehr that needs a parliamentary authorization to move a single grunt overseas
>In alternate reality, Germany never built fleet to offend bongs and we're allied with Brits against France and Russia
What could have been...
Who would have thought? A joint project between Germany and France, two countries who have historically got allow just dandy, not working out. What a shame
GET FUCKED FRANCE
GO FUCK YOUR SHITTY TRANNY CARRIER SHIT
I imagine Germany won't be getting a huge work share or design stake given the lateness of the decision - design approval is in 2025, and no one taking part is wanting delay.
I guess a smaller share something that happens is better than a bigger share of something that doesn't happen.
If Japan and England develop a 6th generation fighter before 2030, you can bet your ass it will be as much of a 6th gen as Su-57 is 5th gen.
Has anyone even come up with a shopping list of things that defines 6th gen or are we all waiting for NGAD to hit frontline squadrons before it crystallises?
I imagine there will be endless threads come 2035 (GCAPs actual ISD, not 2030) rules lawyering about how it's not a 'real' 6th gen because it doesn't have 300Oz big gulp cup holders like NGAD.
We have a nebulous idea of what fighter generations are, but they are irrelevant since we compare fighters not based on their generations but capabilities, nobody says the Su-57 is better than the Raptor because they are a generation away.
Roma had provincias, not states.
Rome didn't have guns. Automatically disqualified.
>Has anyone even come up with a shopping list of things that defines 6th gen
It's unironically a marketing paradigm because there's no big scary nuclear bombers to frighten everyone after the 80s. It doesn't mean anything, it just convinces simple people that they're taxes aren't being wasted on stuff they don't really understand.
Like the F-35 "not" being fifth gen because it doesn't have supercruise. Supercruise would be a retarded design choice for a fighter/bomber that will spend most of its time on strike missions launched from pretty far from the targets being struck, and valuing other things was the intelligent decision. But that doesn't fit marketing definition, which just shows that it's a dumb definition.
Also I don't see anything sixth gen does that fifth gen doesn't or couldn't. So far all we've seen from six gen is just whatever fifth gen can do but more modern.
underrated post. Supercruise is an excellent example of a feature that isn't needed by a stealth jet with stand off weapons and an absurd suite of sensors
300 oz Big Gulp cup holders are a 5th+ Generation feature. 6th Gens will have cockpit-mounted fountain drink dispensers.
So, what does a toilet
net you?
The big thing around 6th gens seem to be steathly/low observation capabilities, plus advanced sensors and coms networking all the different systems together plus drone 'wingmen' or the plane itself being a drone with the option of having a human pilot onbaord to do some stuff.
A 6th gen fighter should be able to hit the enemy before they know they are even under attack, but 5th gen has that ability too. Even some 4th gen stuff will be able to get targeting data from somewhere else and use it to engage something they can see themselves.
That's 5th generation, 6th gen "fighters" are a system of systems, basically, something like an AWACS but for their own little drone squad.
5th gen only has low observability for radar and maybe IR, 6th gen seems to be targeting multispectrum low observability including the visual, but who the fuck knows until they show the NGAD if that's actually true.
>steathly/low observation capabilities, plus advanced sensors and coms networking all the different systems together plus drone 'wingmen'
So a 5th gen plus wingmen drones. F-35 will be 6th gen long before any other nation has a stealth plane flying by that definition.
6th generation will abandon traditional fighter concepts like dogfighting and maneuvering, or an internal gun. It is the last step toward 7th generation, where there's no longer a difference between fighter and bomber
>before 2030
they're targeting 2035.
A genuinely unrealistic plan, nor England, nor Italy, nor Japan has experience in full stack fighter jet development, let alone System of Systems.
For fuck sakes, look at the Dassault Rafale and how long it took them to get it to the full spec F3 standard, and they had much more experience in making jets than the British, Italians and the Japanese have today.
If you want to look at what workforce and know-how atrophy does to a sector, look no further than the Astute development, where the Americans has to step in to see it trough, for a country that is supposed to be 100% navy oriented, just because they didn't make a sub for a decade.
But then again, I am not smarter than people working on the thing so my opinion should be treated just as that, an opinion.
>British 5th gen experience from JSF
>Japanese 5th gen experience from Shinshin
>Italians to put a Ferrari badge on it or something
Are you dumb Tempest is going to be fantastic
Only F-35 FACO facilities outside of the US are in Italy and Japan too.
who do you think designed the sensors and weapons systems for the F-35
What does Germany even have to offer for a 5th gen fighter program
>fighter jets in 2024
Still making last century weapons ehh yuropoors?
>tfw Russia has been 7th gen+++ for 3 decades now by not putting a single new airframe into service
NATObros... we lost...
>design approval is in 2025
Workshare/funding is getting agreed on by the end of the year supposedly.
I don't think Japan and Italy are going to want germany to come in and eat some of the pie for no fucking reason at all besides germany wants in.
I imagine Germany will be allowed to buy them, but not benefit significantly from tech transfer or industrial contracts unless they can provably bring new capabilities to the table.
What can the German aviation industry bring that another partner can't already do better?
Yeah let them be a preferred customer or something, but no way in hell should they be given a slice of production unless they're ACTUALLY bringing something new that none of the other 3 can provide.
Germany has plenty of technology that can tie into aviation.
Yes, but what do they have that the UK, Italy, and Japan don't also already have or could do themselves easily?
They are already set to go forward without germany, so what does germany bring that they actually NEED?
>NEED
If that would be relevant Britain could solo it, it'd just be shit.
Butthurt frog detected.
Hey, I am not living in a mine country.
Australians are just something else IMO.
I can smell the body odor and stale cigarettes from here.
No they don't.
Yes, I particularly enjoyed how the Australian politicians with a lot thicker pockets declared that Australians will not be employed to build Australian submarines but the country will remain an open-air mine with 0 technological relevance.
they don't need it anyway, EF+meteor+advamced radar will be good for a long time.
>not VLO gets shot down by SAM
>radar only in the front, gets shot down by loyal wingman
>has to sense it's own targets, gets shot down by long range air to air missile
the pilot dies in all situations.
>EF
>good
I never really get all this stuff. The EF is one of the fastest high altitude interceptors in the west and the new AESA radar is pretty based. The Rafale is a better all rounder, but neither of these aircraft are "bad". Either one can shit on the typical Flanker variants seen in the wild. When the russkies shot down that drone they did it with a fucking R-27 Alamo from the 1980's. The meteors are a rediculous upgrade on the most commonly fielded slavshit missiles
>I win.
Your country is almost entirely reliant on Americans, what the fuck do you think people call you "the 51st state" all the time, but you celebrate these pathetic "victories", fucking freak.
Being the 51st state of the gratest country to ever exist is a pretty big win though.
Anon, if we were actually the 51st state I'd be getting paid more than $50k equivalent working in the bong MIC with a doctorate and chartership.
We are independent, unfortunately for my wallet
found the frog
I wish I was a frog.
what exactly do bongs use that's american?
>france derailing an international effort with their schizo demands
Many such cases
That didn't happen, stop trying to greentext when you want to make up a story.
France literally threw a shitfit over ESI - a framework for recommended air defence capabilities - because it didnt involve a commitment to buy french systems
You're going to have to be more specific. Usually when you tards say shit like that, it isn't remotely true, and "ESI" means nothing.
>France did not join the German initiative as this would be against its commercial interests: it manufactures the SAMP/T medium-range system in cooperation with Italy. The French Armed Forces have eight SAMP/T batteries and four Crotale NG short-range batteries (with a total of eight to ten systems; two of them were likely delivered to Kyiv). Paris claims that ESSI favours not only German but also non-European technologies (specifically US and Israeli). Macron’s speech at the meeting on 19 June also revealed France’s different view on the development of air defence capabilities in Europe. France does not want the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which Macron has defined as a ‘dated’ conflict, to set the trends for developing NATO countries’ military capabilities. In his opinion, the risk of a Russian military attack against a NATO ally is low. While France is inclined to support strengthening collective defence to a certain extent, it claims that European NATO members should invest more in their own technological and industrial base rather than in foreign purchases, and take into account new types of threats to cyber domain, space and seabed infrastructure, as well as in the field of air defence, such as countering drones. Such priorities are included in the French Military Programming Law for 2024–30, which is currently being debated in the parliament. Moreover, France believes that the concept of an extensive European Sky Shield is not only costly and unrealistic, but is also controversial in strategic terms. For France, nuclear deterrence alone is a strong protection for the Alliance against a Russian attack. Macron fears that a decisive strengthening of ballistic missile defences (Arrow-3 systems) may prompt Moscow to further develop offensive capabilities that would undermine the effectiveness of French nuclear deterrence.
>Macron fears that a decisive strengthening of ballistic missile defences (Arrow-3 systems) may prompt Moscow to further develop offensive capabilities that would undermine the effectiveness of French nuclear deterrence
Are the french retarded or what?
You cunts barely contribute to your own baguettes, fuck off frog
lol, keep seething
French MIC is superior to any other European, simple reality that France is now the second largest exporter of weapons on the planet will be sufficient even for the most hardcore mouthbreathers
Yes, the third world will always need their absolute trash tier weapons to flow from somewhere
Keep coping.
In one state, you can earn 80k a live check to check, in another, 30k is enough.
>French MIC is superior to any other European
Literally name a superior Euro MIC to them, tard.
>French MIC is superior to any other European
Lache out laut, lache mein fucken arsch off even
French MIC is 3 times bigger compared to yours.
AA chads cant stop winning
>may
>could
it's a nothingburger
Now please cancel mgcs next
>trying to cooperate on literally anything with a fr*nchoid
You will all be buying American if you want a sixth gen.
NGAD won't be for sale retard. The US likes to maintain a qualitative advantage over it's "allies" hence the F-22 never got exported either.
US already confirmed NGAD isn't going to be exported, they're open to sharing 6th gen technologies with close allies for THEIR 6th gen programs, but the US has already said they have no plans to produce an export 6th gen, at least for now.
F/A-XX is the future. The air force program will produce a tactically inferior platform. Everyone will be buying F/A-XX
F/A-XX is also NGAD, and also won't be exported.
>The F/A-XX is expected to be the manned fighter component and centerpiece of the Navy's Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) family of systems
Also who the fuck else would want a catapult launched 6th gen except maybe China and France?
Navy NGAD is unrelated to the Airforce NGAD, they are entirely seperate programs. Also plenty of countries already operate F-18s without having carriers.
Which will allow them to focus on my beloved F/A-XX
>Navy NGAD is unrelated to the Airforce NGAD, they are entirely seperate programs. Also plenty of countries already operate F-18s without having carriers.
Correct, and NEITHER NGAD will be available for export, what are you not understanding?
Incorrect F/A-XX will be widely exported. It will be the greatest military asset to ever take flight.
>source: my ass
sick bro
F/A-XX there are approximately 3 countries that'd be interested in buying a Naval version and those are the USA, the UK and France. No one else has a carrier that can do much better than VTOL/STOVL and we aren't about to sell to China.
The UK probably won't buy in favor of their own program as we see here and France would rather go without and just make their carrier worthless than buy American.
So no it won't be purchased. And that's assuming it does get allowed for export which it won't..
How many of these countries operate carriers?
Super hornets =/= Hornets dumbass
What are you trying to say with this irrelevant comment?
That the Super hornets that the navy is looking to replace (only used by the US and Australia) are not the same as the Hornets which your pic is showing.
Irrelevant. You were saying that only countries that operate carriers would be interested in F/A-XX. Clearly you're wrong as many countries operate the F/A-18 without also operating carriers. I don't know how you were able to interpret this in any ither way.
No 6th gen fighters will be sold and Boeing will certainly not develop a 6th gen carrier fighter.
Only countries that operate carriers will be interested in fielding carrier based planes
>But what about these non-carrier based planes
is not an argument.
>F/A-18s aren't carrier based
Are you retarded?
I mean, he's not WRONG, the hornet and super hornet are carrier-based planes that are operated by non-carrier militaries.
He's still retarded though because the US isn't going to sell it to anyone even if they did want it.
No one can afford the $250m+ per airframe that the F/A-XX will likely cost anyway, and it still won't be allowed for export because congress isn't totally retarded despite what they want you to think.
The F/A-18 was designed as a cheap fighter. F/A-XX is not. Export is not impossible but it won't be the sales success the Hornet was.
lol
Qatar and Saudi Arabia were being mentioned as potential backups for New Turkey, but that is literally he-said-she-said, bit it certainly makes sense since Germany doesn't have anything but money to offer to these kinds of projects.
>and they have no experience with 5th gen aircraft
Rafale is more 5th gen than some of the established 5th gen fighters.
The F4.1 standard is an impressive machine and it is mainly French built, even down to CPUs.
Saudis would be a natural partnership given they tried to join GCAP but got cockblocked by Japan. Not sure they could contribute much beyond funding but with the way the French operate maybe they'd prefer that. I imagine Turkey would jump at the opportunity if they got tech transfers but nobody's been willing to grant them that just yet. It'll be interesting to see how it evolves. I suspect it'll be the most different of the 6th gen projects assuming it actually gets built.
The Boeing "project"?
Boy, have you seen the state of fucking Boeing?
To the picrel also add the statement from few weeks back from Boeing that basically means they can't make money on commercial jets.
I wonder why you cut it off at 2019?
Airbus can't make as many planes as they can sell, so I guess some airlines are willing to buy cheap and unreliable shit to avoid the queue.
They're way behind schedule and sinking gross amounts of cash into Spirit despite its continual fuckups.
Starliner still has faulty parachutes and flammable cable insulation.
SLS is never going to be real and will probably be mogged by Starship in the near future, despite originally "competing" with Falcon Heavy.
tard stfu
Is It me or is France losing all its military contracts left and right for the past 3 years? What happened?
You spend too much time on /k/.
This place is crawling with Germans, English(especially these) and Polish shills that absolutely hate France, also sprinkle a bit of American ignorance for good measure.
So how's the 6th-Gen going?
Everybody "hates" France after interacting with them if hatred means an awareness of your terrible national character.
You're cunts.
You are ill and the British are the most hated European tourists on the continent, with Australians taking the international spot.
?
I hate Brits far more than Australians and Chinese and Indians far more than either of them.
>tourists
Who cares about tourists? Only subhumans care about the tourist industry.
Frogs are disgusting retards in general, I don't need to single out any group of frenchmen, it's literally all of them.
I bet your country doesn't have a fraction of French contributions to humanity, I also bet that you never even interacted with a French person in a non-formal maner.
>I bet your country doesn't have a fraction of French contributions to humanity,
The French revolution ruined humanity.
>blabla
I've talked to plenty of frogs and worked with some.
You're all thin skinned retards with huge egos and somehow you're still insanely insecure.
>The French revolution ruined humanity
The French created the modern world and you can only seethe.
>I've talked to plenty of frogs and worked with some.
You're all thin skinned retards with huge egos and somehow you're still insanely insecure
sure you did
k
Where can I find a good brasserie in France? Preferably the East/South East. I want some steak tar-tar and frites.
>denial and whining
Kek, name a single major issue in the western world that wasn't caused by the French revolution. I'll wait.
>Kek, name a single major issue in the western world that wasn't caused by the French revolution.
AIDS.
AIDS is only a major issue in Russia and Ukraine in Europe.
Neither of which are part of "the west"
>AIDS, a disease theorised to be caused by sexual relations with primates in southern Cameroon, a former French colony
uhh, Anon. I have some bad news for you.
>>AIDS, a disease theorised to be caused by sexual relations with primates in southern Cameroon, a former French colony
Congo, you retard, which was Belgian.
If you had wanted to lie easily you could have used the French-Canadian connection, since burgers blamed a flight attendant from Montreal to be patient zero for the longest time, but it was figured out after a while patient zero was actually a scandinavian.
>Both HIV-1 and HIV-2 are believed to have originated in non-human primates in West-central Africa and were transferred to humans in the early 20th century.[24] HIV-1 appears to have originated in southern Cameroon through the evolution of SIV(cpz), a simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) that infects wild chimpanzees (HIV-1 descends from the SIVcpz endemic in the chimpanzee subspecies Pan troglodytes troglodytes).[259][260]
Whether they fucked the chimp or ate it, it's believable that it was a Frenchman that did it.
> It is not impossible despite any evidence to support the theory, that maybe this unlikely thing happened. So obviously it did.
What kind of cunt are you?
>"France could be here" he thought.
The shit you are thinking about was caused by a Germanic ideology, the only successful one, Libertarian Capitalism.
That's the most retarded cope I've ever heard.
>The French created the modern world and you can only seethe.
that would unironically be an honour belonging far more to the british
>The French created the modern world
Imagine being French so hard that you think Anglo history is yours if you just say it is.
Don't you have another Palestine riot to put down Pierre? Your country is only 80% French and declining. Same is true for the USA but at least the migrants flooding in are Christian and don't riot because a cop defended himself from getting run over.
I really should get the shekels together to visit France within the next 10-15 years because after that it will be a complete muzzie shitshow.
Oh shut up frogs. You fuckers couldn't even handle losing a wine competition not once but twice to California.
>Most hated European tourists
Not my problem half of the continent is forced to cater to my nation and is required to build miniture Englands to service our needs. The continents economies crumble when the mighty subburnt bong doesnt arrive.
Now uno beero seniorito
Okay, I'll give you that British going to Portugal and Spain to jump off of balconies and have built little communities is funny.
>Jump off
How dare you, we fall off due to terrible building regulations and the continents relaxed attitude to alcohol tax enabling us to purchase a Pint for a single Euro.
>Portugal and Spain
My guy France is one of the worst
>"You've got the British coming over with their money and buying up all these old houses and renovating them. A lot of the French couldn't afford what we've bought, and that's where the divide comes."
Dordogne is now Dordogneshire
It'll never get old how frogs pathologically need to cope that only retarded Americans trace a lot of assholery from the French back to the French.
Your post should be framed and displayed in your Louvre hole.
More people getting tired of France's shit. Also, it's one thing to support your neighbor when doing so also has some benefit for you, mutual prosperity and success and all, at the cost of optimization, right up until the whole world gets jump-scared and now what matters most is having the best shit and ideally, getting it efficiently.
Predictable outcome all things considered, they couldn't even agree on MGCS which is a far less intensive development project, and with such different needs and goals a 6th gen aircraft was only going to go one way for them. I wonder what the French will do if Germany withdraws from the project though. They almost certainly lack the funding to keep it afloat themselves and they have no experience with 5th gen aircraft. Will they just put the project on ice?
So you're saying euros will be locked out of 6th Gen until the US decides to make it's second 6th Gen then? We really should vassalize europe for realsies.
No they'll just buy GCAP.
I'd fucking hope so. Every professional project I've had with frogs felt like chewing barbed wire.
They're arrogant, lazy, incompetent and thin skinned.
I wonder what's the success to fail ratio of French coop programs.
Seems like the frogs keep getting buttfucked in every international dealings they go into, which to be frank is probably due to their very autistic nature in dealing with these types programs.
>INB4 anglo blaming.
AUKUS was amazing to watch, the French cope and butthurt in real time was honestly hilarious
French are your friends, dude.
>Seems like the frogs keep getting buttfucked in every international dealings they go into
They try to buttfuck everybody else.
People are tired of it, nobody wants to deal with them anymore.
>They try to buttfuck everybody else.
Yeah so the French are the big baddies for some reasons and everyone else are little angels, special mention for the German right? It's not like they would use the veto on Eurofigther sale to Saudi Arabia as a bargaining tool for the Tempest program, right?
Yes. The French proved they don't care for anything they don't control absolutely when they sperged out over NATO
>Yeah so the French are the big baddies
You overestimate yourself.
You're just greedy, completely selfish, self-centered and dishonest.
You're not the big baddies, you're just shitty to work with, which every nation in Europe seems to relearn every 20-30 years.
Germany has a ton of successful cooperative projects under its belt in Europe, Britain has seen success with them too.
French projects only work out when all partners agree to make it all about France, which rarely happens.
>Germany has a ton of successful cooperative projects under its belt in Europe
Name 3 (not conducted with France)
IRIS included about a dozen different nations under German leadership, most countries with Leopards developed yjeir own local versions with German cooperation (but let's just count that as one) and the boxer was a German-Dutch cooperation.
That wasn't even hard.
>most countries with Leopards developed yjeir own local versions with German cooperation
So the F-16 is a multinational airplane and not American, gotcha.
Depends, does every nation get to make their own, version and produce it themselves if they want to?
See above. Stay mad because nobody wants to work with frogs.
The Rafale/Mirage series got customized exactly the same way
>Counting the Leopard
>the entirety of Airbus
>MBDA
>CFM International
>Aster
>FREMM
>Concorde
>Ariane
Idk, I think it might be just you
>Concorde
>success
How are they doing these days?
>Ariane
>success
For awhile to be sure but SpaceX is eating their lunch with no responses incoming.
>How are they doing these days?
Is that supposed to mean something? Do you think sailboats were a failure because they're only popular as pleasure craft today?
Haha what the fuck?
>may
>could
Nothingburger.
>Biden warns Russia may invade next month
I feel a bit bad for the spanish. I don't understand why'd they agree to partner with the two biggest pains in the ass on the continent when it comes to military development.
>considers deal with Britain
As a preferred customer rather than a partner hopefully. If krauts sink another 6th gen project I'll scream.
No, no, bro, they won't be cheap israelites like always, this time it will be different
Holy shit thank you Germany for killing every cooperation project please do us a favor and axe MGCS next
>Holy shit thank you Germany for killing every cooperation project
The only thing Scholz did wrong was not axe cooperation with the baguettes earlier. Everybody gets sick of their shit eventually, he was way too patient.
There is talk that the project is basically dead in the water but I wouldn't bet on it.
Yes, France is basically just looking for a cashdaddy for Dassault, MBDA, Thales and others so they can do their shit properly but Germans seem to misunderstand their position, consistently.
Holy shit the boches and anglos in this thread truly can't stop fixating about us, its insane.
You keep making everything about you.
You're the one one doing that.
I'm not French.
> YOU KEEP MAKING THINGS ABOUT YOU
> IN A THREAD ABOUT YOU
Mais t'es con ou quoi?
Where can I find a good brasserie in France? Preferably the East/South East. I want some steak tar-tar and frites.
I dunno, you seems to be a cavern where your ass should be and you've so far found everything there I'm not French, you're just retarded and post too much.
Not sure what this garbled English means. Can you reccomend a good restaurant?
Non, mais tu es un putain
I lived in your godforsaken country. You are still upset about losing your colonies and not being a super power. France will never rise again and you will be the bitch of Europe.
The tempest is honestly the only 6th gen project in europe i see going anywhere.
Why didn't Germany join GCAP to begin with? They have the most similar needs, or at least far more aligned than that of Germany and France. Seems kind of obvious that you should join projects that actually meet your needs. Was it just politics at play? The two big EU players trying to build up military cooperation?
The issue is that you're a teenager with the memory of a goldfish. We're talking about a program that is a year old vs another that has been at least in serious talks for a decade.
>Depends,
No.
>No.
In that case no, the F16 doesn't count.
Good for you, anon. Nice to hear many countries produced them locally.
>In that case no, the Leopard doesn't count.
We know.
The Leopard fulfills the condition the F16 doesn't.
Locally produced specialized models created in cooperation.
Nobody builds entire F16s as their own versions except for America.
>We're talking about a program that is a year old vs another that has been at least in serious talks for a decade
GCAP didn't spawn in a vacuum, it came as a result of Tempest and F-X merging. Stop being autistic you fucking retard.
No, those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start. The technology demonstrator that Japan flew now has nothing to do with what the finished plane will look like and it is clear that all countries involved are trying to just share risk without pursuing the actual air frames they were planning on originally.
It does not, and it was just explained why. No, you don't get to say "Depends" and things suddenly change. If F-16 is an American plane then Leopard is just a German tank.
F-5 is another example of an American plane and MOST of those were made entirely outside of America.
>those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other
GCAP is literally the product of the UK and Japan merging their 6th gen programs. I don't know how or why you're even claiming this isn't true. It's indisputably the case.
The text you quoted doesn't say that. The point is that it's not "just a merger". It's a new program, at best just using some technology from the older programs.
This is like hearing the bullshit claim that the F-35B actually started with the Yak-41 because Lockheed bought the technology to apply it to the F-35B.
>GCAP didn't spawn in a vacuum, it came as a result of Tempest and F-X merging
>those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other
>GCAP is literally the product of the UK and Japan merging their 6th gen programs
And now you're backtracking. Just shut the fuck up you autist.
ESL? The word "had" doesn't mean what you think it means.
What even is your point? You're claiming GCAP has nothing to do with Tempest or F-X despite it literally being a result of the projects merging. You said something retarded and now you're just backtracking to pretend you ever had a point to begin with lmao. Eat shit.
>You're claiming GCAP has nothing to do with Tempest or F-X
Quote where I said this.
Reminder, you don't know what the word "had" means. ESL get out.
>those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start
You claimed GCAP is a fresh start and therefore has nothing to do with Tempest or F-X, despite literally being the result of the two projects merging. I accept your concession.
That's weird, the greentext in this post uses the word "had", yet the greentext in
doesn't, it specifically goes out of its way to change the word to "has". It's almost as though an ESL can't speak English yet is trying to argue in that language.
>the projects had nothing to do with each other until they did
Are you genuinely this retarded? Yes, things aren't usually the case until they are you retard. That's literally how semantics work. Claiming that GCAP isn't the product of Tempest and F-X merging is still braindead no matter how you try to frame it. In case you forgot
>those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start
This is what you said.
>the projects had nothing to do with each other until they did
That's right, keep trying to claim this is how things work and there's no other obvious conditions that set GCAP as a restart. I'm sure the two different programs used the same engines, airframe, radar, electronics, weapons, etc.
The reason GCAP exists is because all participating countries would logically refuse to fund separate programs, yet only decided this when they were both halfway through those separate programs. That's not "just a merger". That's a restart.
Going back to the F-35B for a second, the VTOL system for the plane goes back to around 1992 in the form of different programs investigating potential new VTOL designs that might make their way into a fighter. This is usually when F-35 development is usually cited as starting, even though this is only the case through a merger of those early programs into a general fighter program. The difference, of course, being that the early programs were merged because... they're supposed to be merged. A VTOL research program is only considered a success if it proves itself enough to be considered functional for a separate plane program, which is what happened.
Meanwhile Tempest and F-X literally just had nothing to do with each other. GCAP development didn't start years ago, and up until recently all money and engineering was still directed towards two discontinued projects that weren't meant to merge.
>claims GCAP is a fresh start detached from it's predecessors despite being the product of Tempest and F-X merging
>goes on semantic pant shitting rants to distract from this
>keeps backtracking because his bullshit is verifiably false and has been called out
Could have saved yourself all this embarrassment by just keeping quiet about things you don't understand lmao. Total clown.
>GCAP development didn't start years ago
But the parent projects did which is why your original point makes no sense. Germany had other options and didn't need to settle for FCAS which didn't align with their needs.
Once again, I accept your concession.
>semantics
ESL shouldn't use words they don't understand. Intent, point of view, wasted effort, and most importantly current engineering/financial disposition of a project has nothing to do with semantics.
>Once again, I accept your concession.
You are wrong and it has been explained why.
You can start going back to changing a word like "had" to "has" in order to try and change an argument and then squeal about semantics while claiming you won an internet argument that you lost on the get-go.
>ESL shouldn't use words they don't understand
Screaming ESL isn't an argument, especially when your claims have been exposed as verifiably false.
>You can start going back to changing a word like "had" to "has"
Semantics that had nothing to do with the argument to begin with. You claimed GCAP is a fresh start rather than the product of Tempest and F-X merging, this is false and everything after that has just been you backtracking and obfuscating to avoid admitting as much. You made a false claim from the get-go and you can't accept that, but I'll accept your concession happily.
>Screaming ESL isn't an argument
It is when you're ESL and pick and argument over your lack of understanding.
>Semantics that had nothing to do with the argument to begin with
>goes on semantic pant shitting rants
>this is false and everything after that has just been you backtracking and obfuscating
I have not once done this, you've just been retarded and can't read.
You can stop talking about concession. You're wrong and angry.
IHI Corp provides work for many military jet engines internationally, especially insulation. That doesn't mean the Tempest's engine was ever a Japanese engine IHI actually did a lot of work that will surely just be thrown out in favor of Rolls-Royce's engine being as it is overall more advanced. There was never an intention to provide technology to Rolls-Royce for the potential of merging projects later. That is, to say, the effort of IHI working on jet engine research for F-X doesn't just automatically apply to GCAP, and even if something does, it's still a shitload of wasted effort overall. Either a great deal of work will be redone or one party will just accept the engine being developed by the other as the new default engine of the joint program (which really means that one program is being canceled, not two programs being merged).
IHI worked on the F135 and F136 engines, too. They're not Japanese engines and it'd be really weird if some program merger happened later.
>those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start
This is what you stated. No amount of screaming interpretation or misunderstanding is going to change the fact you made a bogus claim from the get go. Now fuck off you autist.
That quote is true and I haven't changed from that position once.
You are the one screaming interpretation and that claim isn't bogus. I've been very clear. Go away, ESL, you are wrong and can't talk.
>the product of a merger has nothing to do with it's parent projects it's totally just a new thing that spawned in a vacuum
If that's the hill you want to die on then go ahead, but it's patently retarded.
Great, you moved on from changing "had" to "has" to just writing what is obviously your sentence and attributing it to someone else.
Let's be clear. You can't read. You also can't write. Or probably think.
The post you originally took issue with and replied to was
>GCAP didn't spawn in a vacuum, it came as a result of Tempest and F-X merging
To which you responded
>No, those programs had very specifically nothing to do with each other and GCAP is a fresh start
You can try and backtrack all you want, but your position is that the product of the merger has nothing to do with it's parent projects and that it somehow spawned in a vacuum. Obviously you've been trying to backtrack and obfuscate the whole time but the posts are still there, you can go back and witness your retardation in all it's glory if you're interested in reliving it.
Non-native English speakers arguing in such silly ways.
>IHI Corp provides work for many military jet engines internationally, especially insulation. That doesn't mean the Tempest's engine was ever a Japanese engine IHI actually did a lot of work that will surely just be thrown out in favor of Rolls-Royce's engine being as it is overall more advanced.
Has there even been an engine demonstrator from RR yet? We have no clue about what RR is even offering past some CGI promo vids. Even their test bed for intake shape is just using an old EJ200. Regardless, the model shown at DSEI 2022 was of IHI's engine core so saying all of it being thrown out is disingenuous. Also Japan's TTB is the one doing engines testing.
>There was never an intention to provide technology to Rolls-Royce for the potential of merging projects later.
See above and pic rel. Even if the original intention of the IHI engine wasn't it a merger, it still happened.
>and even if something does, it's still a shitload of wasted effort overall.
According to what metric? Wouldn't throwing out a bunch of work on an engine that has numbers similar to an F119 more of a wasted effort?
>Either a great deal of work will be redone or one party will just accept the engine being developed by the other as the new default engine of the joint program (which really means that one program is being canceled, not two programs being merged).
You don't realize how little work was put towards a final product for both Tempest and F-X. These programs were mainly research programs. There isn't a bunch of work to be redone because nothing was concrete. IHI had a tech demonstrator engine running at like 30% of the envisioned output and RR didn't even get that far. Neither was at the stage of putting together a finalized engine. You seem to think that both FX and Tempest had all these sub systems and airframe shapes finalized that will have to be discarded after the merger when both programs were only just beginning to figure out what they maybe wanted from a 6th gen aircraft.
>Meanwhile Tempest and F-X literally just had nothing to do with each other. GCAP development didn't start years ago, and up until recently all money and engineering was still directed towards two discontinued projects that weren't meant to merge.
I mean sure except that there already was collaboration on some systems like the Jaguar radar even prior to Tempest or GCAP.
>Shortly after the announcement of the engine program, it was revealed that Leonardo UK will work with Japanese industry on the Jaguar, an advanced multifunction AESA radar program that builds on radar expertise developed in each country.
>Work on the Jaguar predates the creation of Team Tempest, says Andrew Howard, Leonardo’s director for major air programs and the senior responsible officer for the company’s contribution to the Tempest program.
You also have the engines where it just continued off previous work.
>More recently, Rolls-Royce and IHI Corp. have begun working on a joint future fighter engine demonstrator, which will build on IHI’s work on its advanced XF9-1 experimental powerplant and Rolls-Royce’s work on the XG240, the power system destined for the Tempest
You seem to forget or don't realize that both Tempest and F-X were just sub-systems research and figuring out what each country wanted for their program. It wasn't hard to just slap the research each country was doing into one. For example prior to the merger Japan was doing studies on airframe manufacturing methods which dates back to even before F-X when they were doing the DMU studies. That is now being used for GCAP. Literally nothing from Tempest or F-X was thrown out because neither had anything concrete enough to even be considered cut.
Germany has been trying to do the European unity thing with France for like a decade now but despite the French being the ones to constantly talk about an independent Europe, they're the ones doing the least for European cooperation.
In other words
>“When France says European defence policy, it means French industrial interests,” a senior source in Germany’s ruling coalition said. “Scholz feels he has far more in common with the British than with the French on these issues.”
What has Germany done to progress towards European unity? Selling their asses off to Putin and pushing Britain away with the worst handled immigration crisis of all times?
The Germans and the brits don't get a free pass either. The fact is the only reliable partner in europe the US has is Poland.
>Selling their asses off to Putin
Kek, you actually fell for visegrad24 propaganda?
>and pushing Britain away with the worst handled immigration crisis of all times?
Zoomer or just retarded?
Britain had been pushing itself away for decades because their far right wasted 30 years of resistance potential on railing against EU immigrants instead of darkies which led to Britain not having a real resistance party in their parliament to this day and even UKIP wanting to increase African immigration.
Things are fucked in the Crown land but that's not on Germany.
>Schroeder becoming Gasprom's bitchboy is visegrad24 propaganda
buddy, Germany would've gladly served Eastern Europe to Putin on a silver platter if it meant more cheap gas for their shitty industry
good thing daddy US bombed the pipeline so that is off the table kek
>Germany would've gladly served Eastern Europe to Putin on a silver platter
I bet you little PiShead actually believe that lmao
>It does not, and it was just explained why. No, you don't get to say "Depends" and things suddenly change
But it didn't change, you brought up the F16, I asked you if it fulfilled the conditions the Leopard does, you said no.
Nothing changed about the actual conditions, you're the one who tried to shift the goalpost out of ignorance, anon.
See above.
>you brought up the F16
Because it defeats your point by counterexample.
Everything else you're trying to claim just isn't true and you don't get to set conditions. Leopard isn't a multinational program.
I did not say F-16 doesn't "fit conditions", btw, I said
>Depends,
>No
That is very different.
>Because it defeats your point by counterexample
But it doesn't because it's completely different as I've demonstrated.
You just don't know what you're talking about, anon. We talked about arms development cooperation. Do you have any idea how much work it is to get two countries to agree on the specs for a model like the stridsvagn and work out all the details?
Stuff like that is what sinks most projects.
it's cute that you want the bury the fact that Germany tried to stall arms supplies to Ukraine for as long as possible until the rest of NATO pressured them into ceasing that shit because secretely they wanted the war to be over so that the gas supplies could've gone on unhindered
>lies
Kek
None if that is true.
What is true is that France has barely sent anything, Poland threw Ukraine under the bus over some grain corrupt Polish officials let into their market and the only nation that has sent more arms than Germany is the USA.
lol you've barely sent anything for the first year but shitty helmets and DDR surplus
holy shit the audacity of you shitting on poles when they donated half of their stockpile as soon as the war kicked off while you kept making excuses, your contributions to Ukraine's war effort paled in comparison to the rest of the continent per capita
>lol you've barely sent anything for the first year
Kek
Schizo
LOL talking about audacity, the only reason Poland even send anything was Germany reassuring them they would compensate them for it. Face it the only nation allowed to criticize Germany in Ukraine would have been the US if they didn’t stall their abrams and jet deliveries
>if they didn’t stall their abrams and jet deliveries
Probably a good choice considering that the new speaker left Ukraine out of the budget.
Ukraine has never been part of the budget and never will be. Ukraine is funded separately.
Then why are Democrats crying about it?
They're not, They're upset that Israel IS in the budget proposal even though it shouldn't be. Also, it's just a proposal.
Nothing to see above you old ass subhuman. The current refugee crisis is also caused by Germany again because you have the oldest population and lowest birthrates in Europe without Mohammed. Just die off already and stop destroying Europe
>muh Germany
Funny how every nation opened its borders until the shitskins were at the German border but everybody ignores how they got there.
It’s almost like Germany sanctioned the countries not opening its border via the EU just like they still do with Eastern Europe.
Who cares about Gaddafi, that was 2011. The refugee crisis started in 2015. The new refugee crisis started in 2021 and is fully payed and supported by the German gov.
>It’s almost like Germany sanctioned the countries not opening its border via the EU
Never happened, the EU isn't even fast enough in the best case scenario to push shit like that through in the month it took them to get to Germany. There are also about a dozen borders in-between Germany and Africa via the balkans land-route they took.
>Who cares about Gaddafi, that was 2011.
The Arab spring caused it you stupid fuck.
>but everybody ignores how they got there.
I too think this, but not for poor Krautland...no for England, how the fuck are you EU dipshits letting these people filter across all those countries then to just mong about in France waiting to jump on a truck?
Ask Joe Biden when he finally visits the Southern border. Any day now!
He did that in janurary
That's based, anon. So how long did it take him to stop letting them all in unhindered afterwards?
>The current refugee crisis is also caused by Germany
Wasn't gaddafi killed because France meddled in the country and Obama was too retarded not to join in?
Of course a German would defend 2015 and of course a German would be like 60 years old like the rest of his dying, childless nation
UKIP and Nigel Farage were irrelevant and seen as a joke until the migrant crisis of 2015 though.
Mate, outside of /misc/ theyve always been a joke here. Farage had his peak when he was bullying the EU parliment freaks.
You don't understand how politics work and how long it takes to build the groundwork for a national party, they've also been making gains long before that.
How old are you?
Merkel. OP's article is retarded anyways since we will most likely just go full American with local production or something like the H-145M since it’s German + German made even if useless.
Watching Euros seethe at eachother over things they have no control over is hilarious. You guys will always be our cute little pets.
>amerilard gets laughed at
>hurr durr rent free!
>muttmerican isn't in the spotlight for a split second
>hurr durr muh europoor
Most Europeans unironically couldn't tell you who this even is btw. Meanwhile uncontacted tribes in the Amazon would recognise Ronaldo
You recognized him.
That's Tom Brady (I think), I don't watch football but I once saw a compilation of an unhealthy amount of female nignogs thirsting for him on twitter.
Damn you guys really can't handle being a US vassal. Which country are you from?
Fuck Germany and fuck France.
Cant we get Poland onboard and make it cheap for the Baltic nations? Maybe the Nords too.
>Cant we get Poland onboard
They have no money or technology to contribute.
>inb4 muh cheap workers
Politicians want yo employ their own people. Their workers also lack expertise.
We should subsidise them to annoy the Germans and French. It would be worth every penny.
Besides they must have some money theyve been on a big shopping spree for new kit.
They're not actually going to buy 500 himars or all the other stuff. They'll buy new systems, just not at the numbers planned.
1. Why the fuck would either nation care.
2. Poland is nearly as awful to work with as France.
The new government is probably a lot better in that regard but after all the bridges they burned in the last decade people aren't gonna line up to work with either nation.
1. Because both nations dont have a 6th gen and Poland having one would make them have a meltdown. It fits in well with the UK liking to fuck about with Euro politics.
2. Nah Polands sweet. France is fine too when they want to be, the Jaguar was a good bit of kit and the Concorde was amazing.
>Because both nations dont have a 6th gen and Poland having one would make them have a meltdown.
Why?
>2. Nah Polands sweet
Okay, Pavel, it's time to return home.
The nords would be Sweden, Norway and Denmark kinda lacking in MIC.
And from people working at saab I know personally they're gonna be helping the brits with coms systems and the drones.
In general Swedish and bong MICs are pretty interconnected
>Frogs taking the L
Sorry frogbros. I work with a guy who migrated from France to the US and he always mentions that he has more in common with Americans than French. Even with his heavy French accent he speaks of the laziness of his former compatriots. His ambition in life demanded he leave France for France is for lazy state employees and those on welfare.
>he speaks of the laziness of his former compatriots
I always wondered why they don't have siesta
It’s nice to have a thread where everybody rightfully dumps on France. It takes the edge off after a long day
I genuinely wish I could like them but every frog I worked with has been a piece of shit. The only ones I liked or could tolerate are a minority of those I barely knew.
Honestly Germany + Spain + Italy + Sweden developing aircraft together would be worth it in the long run. Yeah, it would be expensive and take more time, but EU independence is a good idea.
Letting Britain take the lead again for a Eurofighter II would be a no-brainer but they fucked that up with Brexit.
Still it's insane that the French are so incredibly insufferable that Germany would prefer to work with partners outside of the EU.
Italy seems to work with the bongs I assume due to the similarity in being a water surrounded nation (barring Italy's mountain filled north but that a similar natural blocker as water.)
The French want a 5.5 gen fighter. Just look at it.
Based, watch Dassault make a better design again.
>Based, watch Dassault make a better design again.
what do you mean again?
>no we will not buy your submarines
>no we will not but your jets
kek frogs btfo
Dont forget
>we are getting rid of your helicopters
>enter joint fighter program with a nation with a carrier
>get upset when they increase cost and complexity for carrier use
The Germans did this to themselves, several times.
Well, it didn't look promising anyway, just Merkel's stupid desition for EU independence* from the US
The frog cope in this thread is hilarious.
You WILL be stuck using a 4.5 for the rest of time.
You WILL continue to lose contracts to the Anglos.
You WILL be forced to buy a downgraded mutt plane once the third-world catches up.
STOP BULLYING OUR FROGFUS ):<
LEONARDO SWEEP
>Germany is probably gonna join the GCAP
Panaviabros.... The tornado, it is avenged.
It won't see
>What we fear is Saudi Arabia doing some kind of retaliation against us if we don’t vote their way and [Saudi Arabia] saying ‘if we can’t export to China, we will veto your export as well’ to countries of interest,” he said, such as with South and Southeast Asian countries like India, which Japan sees as a valuable export market with close ties with Saudi Arabia.
Japan doesn't want any new people who will abuse veto powers (exactly what Germany has a history of doing) and the UK doesn't want Germany specifically to have veto powers. All 3 current members don't want a new nation to fuck up time tables and negotiations as final talks about cost and work share are about to conclude. Including a new member would fuck up both things so it will never happen.
>Tornado, Typhoon, Tempest
Bong naming is top tier, I wonder what they'll call the next one? Back to Hurricane?
>”I wonder what they'll call the next one?”
Why would you end that with “?” when it’s not a question? You fucking ESL naggers really irritate the fuck out of me.
Never read anything about this in any German news outlet. I don't believe Germany is based like this.
Because it’s bullshit anyways except for leaving FCAS. If the F-35, P-8 and Chinook are anything to go by we will most likely just go American.
>we will most likely just go American.
Good luck, they aren't exporting their 6th gen.
Nobody wants to work with the Germans, Bundestag has to approve any payment over 50m€ and sperg out about exports and retarded requirements, the Times is clickbaiting as always
>Eurofailure
This is kraut's biggest achievements, please make some NOOOOOISE
>pic related is a real plane for real men
Also fuck the Eurodrone, may this heavy piece of useless SHIT dive in the coldest part Northern Sea, FUCK FUCK I HATE BILATERAL COOPERATIONS WITH FUCKING GERMANY, WE SHOULD AVOID THOSE FUCKERS AT ALL COST AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Can you reccomend me a good restaurant/brasserie? I really crave steak tar tar and frites. Preferably in Eastern/South Eastern France.
I never went anywhere south of Orleans, i live in Lille, but it's a nice city and very (very) well connected to major places in Europe, there's plenty of great places in the Vieux Lille and the weather is not as shit as everyone say (it is shit though)
This is the average frog not being mad.
He might seem mad, but that's just normal to them and they're like that all the time to cope with life. You'll see the difference when they actually get mad.
Pic semi-related, a guy who made them mad like 150 years ago and they're still seething.
Now this
is a mad poster.
Eurodrone just makes frog naggers seethe because they couldn't strong arm their interests. Germany got everything they wanted, large capacity, long range, high altitude domestic surveillance capabilities with engine fallback. Absolutely perfect for the germans.
Did we ever get any reliable news from the IRIS system in Ukraine? Is it any good?
>Germany got everything they wanted
a drone worse than the Reaper and more expensive to boot? lol
Worse in what way exactly? It seems to be far more capable in surveillance over domestic areas.
You're gonna avoid the simple question of explaining your argument and thoughts here? I was asking why you think it's worse? Where do you see the issues with the Eurodrone capabilities? Why would a Reaper be better at domestic surveillance?
Are you gonna pretend you didn't read the question?
>Did we ever get any reliable news from the IRIS system in Ukraine? Is it any good?
>reliable
Of course not, there's a war being fought. Nothing we get is reliable until about 10 years later at the very least.
BUT, the Ukies like it a lot.
this is now a tourist destination recommendation thread
The vile Kraut strikes again. I still don't get how this country exists after WW1 and WW2.
They will take any occasion to destroy europe: Import millions of sandnaggers, siding with Russia, killing the nuclear energy...