I want a do all woods rifle to hunt with and keep with me out at my family’s cabin in central Washington and I’m torn between a .308 bolt action or a .45-70 lever action (or a .444 Marlin lever action I can potentially get for a good price from a friend). Which caliber would be best for a general do all woods gun? Normally I bring my Winchester 94 but I want something a little more than 30-30.
If you being a big levergun guy is the main reason you’re considering .45-70 or .444 Marlin, let me just throw this out there as a suggestion for you in .308.
He asked for a woods gun. Clear the 45-70 makes more sense here. You don't need higj velocities or ballistics innawoods. And because it's straight wall you can do all sorts of shenanigans.
He lives in the Pacific Northwest, where a woods gun also needs to be capable of way longer ranges than it would just about anywhere else in the country. He’s not in the flatlands brush. If he was where I am (southeast) I would recommend .454/.45/70/.30-30 but I think he needs something that can reach further than those. Also .45/70 is ridiculously expensive and unless he reloads that will be a handicap for him.
>where a woods gun also needs to be capable of way longer ranges than it would just about anywhere else in the country.
uh, why?
Huge mountains, big open areas
>huge mountains
yes
>big open areas
No
exactly this.
PNW?
Yes. In that view Mt. Rainier is directly behind me, that's Mt Adams to the left, and to the right the flat hill at the very back is actually Mt St Helens.
>needs to be capable of way longer ranges than it would just about anywhere else in the country
does OP not have feet or something? just walk to whatever you need to shoot before you shoot it. you have to do that walking anyway.
I think you have it backwards, PNW = dense forests with low visibility at distance and mountains, so unless he’s above the tree line shooting peak to peak I don’t understand where you’re coming from
This anon is correct about the geohraphy we're discussing
> so unless he’s above the tree line shooting peak to peak
You’re telling me that’s not what they do there?
>I don’t understand where you’re coming from
I’m coming from somewhere with no mountains
>You’re telling me that’s not what they do there?
No. Instead you're shooting at things 50 feet away, because that's how far you can see ahead of you. Even from the top of a peak like this, there's no way you'd see anything within range. It's all tree cover.
Go with the .308 for cheaper ammo. Also, lever guns are available in .308, the Henry Long Ranger. pic rel
.308 win is the pretty easy choice. cheaper, more effective, and wildly available with tons of different loadings. Get a tikka.
45-70 is cooler but harder to hit stuff out at longer ranges. 308 is a better do-all cartridge
Nah. Once you get your zero, .45-70 is a surprisingly accurate around. It bucks the wind very very well and haddly destabilize when slowing down past the mach front. You can drop em in the same spot out to 1000 yards. Used to be the long range round of choice for competitive shooters at the previous turn of the century, even as spitzer fast rounds like 7mm mauser were around.
*hardly destabilizes
Tough choice. .45-70 has a much higher upper limit as to what it can reliably take down. In the pacific northwest, grizz are starting to come back a little. So thats a consideration. Also, too, if you really want to go down that road, 500+ grain .45-70 subsonics are brutal and movie quiet with the right suppressor, albeit with a rainbow trajectory.
>45-70 lever action
it's fine for whatever you want to shoot in the woods and it also makes hilariously good subsonics. not that I recommend mixing those two, but those are two things about .45-70.
See if you can find a Marlin 336 or Winchester 94 in .30-30.
One of the old favorite Mom and Pop shop calibers, along with .22 and 12 Gauge.
Oh. Nevermind. Reading comprehension not.
Very based question anon, thanks for giving the board some soul. My two cents: if you reload, get the 45-70 or .444. If you don't reload, get the .308. Capability-wise, they'll both serve you well and both come in handy lightweight packages.
>OP asked for a woods gun
>thread devolves into arguments about what woods are
yes anon, it's crucial to understand the environment in question to give a valuable answer. Now post pictures you've taken in the mountains of the pacific northwest, cuck
Sure, here's one I took in the Olympic peninsula. As you can see it has been logged recently but still would not be considered "long range" hunting grounds.
I like a Winchester 1892(any make really) as a woods gun. 44 Mag or 45 Colt(if you handload). Small enough you can fit your hand around the reciever.
They both largely do the same things the 45-70 does, but in a much lighter 6lbs package. I love my 1886 and that's not to say I haven't pushed loads through it that are literally twice as powerful(4000ft/lbs) as my 92's, but it weighs 11 lbs fully loaded.
Do you plan on reloading? .45-70 would probably let you re-use brass more times than .308, but pre-loaded .308 will be a lot cheaper. Overall I'd say .308 is still the more versatile of the two.
I was in the same boat as you OP and I bought a .357 Henry X model so I can use my suppressor on it. .357 out of a rifle barrel is nothing to sneeze at. If I had a .45 caliber can I’d probably have gone with .44 mag but I wanted to use the can I already have.
If this is a post apocalyptic firearm scenario, the 45-70 is a better option, but in a Ruger Model 1.
The 45-70 was designed for black powder and because of this it has ample case capacity. You're not going to make smokeless powder post-civilization. Black powder is relatively easy. A lot easier if you practice while you can.
Someone in the post apocalypse will be rocking the Springfield trapdoor with hand cast lead bullet homemade black powder loads
>You're not going to make smokeless powder post-civilization
There's no such thing as "post civilization." You can't uninvent agriculture, and you will find you can't undo near 100% literature rates and every scientific discovery being documented and recorded.
Even in a worst case disaster, humanity would be making smokeless powder immediately.
You are retarded if you don't think knowledge can be lost. Even if you had the required knowledge many industrial processes cannot be carried out on the small scale or without other dependant technologies, so the knowledge is useless.
>knowledge can be lost
Not anymore.
>Even if you had the required knowledge many industrial processes cannot be carried out on the small scale or without other dependant technologies, so the knowledge is useless.
Very true, there won't be anyone pumping out PCBs. They will however have absolutely no problem with 1800s technologies like gunpowder and batteries.
both y'all retarded
Nerds will tell you that 308 is better in every conceivable metric, but frankly that's fag talk. 45-70 is the tits.
>woods gun?
That's a boomer meme. No such thing when it comes to the chambering.
.308 would be the better choice. It has better ballistics, the ammo is more available, and it is more versatile.
Nice quads.
Op, im in abbotsford bc and hunt everything from just north of kamloops and down to the us/can border....so PNW type terrain.
308 is fine. I typically use a 6.5prc for my hunts, and have a 300wm when im in known grizz territory....but l nevee felt undergunned at all when i packed my 308 around.
Pic 1/2. Very related.
Pic 2/2. The heaviest 45-70 option that shitty site has and yet is still has less energy then a common cheap box of federal 180 bonded bullets.
Fuck, forgot the pic.
I'd want a semi-auto .308, in case I get charged by a bear or mountain lion and miss the first shot.
>bear
There are only black bears where OP is.
Mountain lions are a thing though.
Then try aiming, instead of laying down suppressive fire.
I used to own a .444. The bullets are too light for caliber, it wrecks meat, it kicks hard, and the ammo is expensive and scarce. That said, I loved it. Maybe with the money you saved from your friend you could buy a Lee Loader and roll your own, and load them down a bit with hard cast boolits.
If times get hard, 45-70 will be impossible to find. .308 is NATO standard. I'd get the 308, all things considered.
Lever actions make fine woods guns. I would not step up to the 45-70 unless you intend to shoot really large animals like an elk.