I heard stories of bad guys in the middle east getting shot by 5.56 and they just dont go down
I heard stories of bad guys in the middle east getting shot by 5.56 and they just dont go down
I heard stories of bad guys in the middle east getting shot by 5.56 and they just dont go down
I too heard the stories of people missing but thinking they hit the bad guy.
Just like M1 carbines in Korea
I hear stories of officers shooting people 20 times with the nine M M and they just don't go down! Yep, that's why I carry a .40 caliber
We have video confirmation of perpetrators returning to their feet after getting hit multiple times with 9x19
Only the orphans of bankrupt culture
I watched a carjacker get T zoned by 9mm and went down and died in just a couple shots, its a skill issue and 10mm won't save you from being a shit shot.
>I watched a carjacker get T zoned by 9mm and went down and died
Story time?
crazy how the most common caliber in use has a lot of examples of it not working
The mantra now is to carry the lightest, lowest recoiling caliber that gives you the most shots, rather than a heavier caliber that gives you a few less shots per mag and has higher recoil. Basically everyone is being a moron. If you're a 9mmfag (excluding CC guns) and a 5.56fag you're a massive gaping pussy trying to minmax the lowest common denominator caliber for killing a human, but it often won't work. Me, I'm running .308 & 10mm.
And we have confirmation of perps getting hit over a dozen times by .45, including with head shots, and failing to go down.
Yeah. You heard stories of soldiers missing, and they blamed it on their ammo. They did the same thing with 30 carbine not being able to penetrate winter jackets in Korea.
Daily reminder, pic related was with shitty 5.56 range ammo.
At point blank range. Yeah no shit when the muzzle is practically pressed against your arm it'll fuck shit up but soldiers have to take 7-800yd shots with their M4s which is absolutely the range where 5.56 runs out of steam from a 14.5
Good thing people virtually never try to engage with M4s at fucking 800yds.
Shame the actual 50th percentile velocity for 5.56 fragmentation and tearing in the TSC is about 2500fps and M855 only dribbles out of a 14.5in carbine barrel at 2800fps in ideal conditons. In cold weather or a worn barrel you only get 80 yards of reliable fragmentation and cavity tearing with an M4 and M855. Truly carbine length barrels are the biggest scam fad that ever caught on.
>Truly carbine length barrels are the biggest scam fad that ever caught on
Nah, the Hague convention was. Fortunately the problem has been resolved with the introduction of m855a1
>Hague convention was
Hague prohibited projectiles don't defeat armor.
>Fortunately the problem has been resolved with the introduction of m855a1
The only problem that M855A1 resolved was "how do I halve my barrel life and mean time between critical failure by putting 62-70k PSI cartridges through a system designed for 52-55k PSI peak pressure, and reduce my P/V from 15 to 18?"
M855A1 is the last death gasp of 5.56, a perfectly good round, because of the short barrel meme.
Mk.262 Mod 1 fixes this.
Yeah. As long as your adversaries agree not to wear any kind of armor.
There are no plates which cover the face.
God tier answer. I'm glad you've also taken the 17HMR controlled feed full auto pill and abandoned centerfire altogether based on that logic.
Uh..a faceplate. Duh duh dumbass
Rifle plates stop your gay .277 fury too
Yeah. Shame for (You) they don't stop 6.8x51mm warshot though.
You can prove that right? I’m sure you can and aren’t a lying Sigger
Can you prove the contrary? I'm sure you can and aren't a seething ARfag
>claims 6.8 beats plates
>show me
>reeeeee no you have to prove they don’t
I love how Siggers are still sticking to the “it’s for beating body armor cope” when they still haven’t shown it ever going through armor. I can show you faster, more powerful rounds with hardened steel core (.300 WM) getting stopped multiple times on even cheap level IV plates. Can you show me a single non-tungsten 6.8 going through any rifle plate? We both know you can’t.
You know what does fix it though? Using a 20 inch barrel. Suddenly M193 and M855 stop sucking dick and the rifle instantly becomes useful for infantry in a wide variety of circumstances without meme tier tradeoffs because soldiers don't want to have a rifle that weighs 1lb more.
M193 being mediocre 1960s shit and M855 being subpar doesn't have to reflect on 5.56mm as a whole, Mk.262 Mod 1 is just one example of being able to have excellent wounding. Something else, like a steel cored softpoint, wouldn't be a difficult thing to achieve.
>steel cored softpoint, wouldn't be a difficult thing to achieve
As long as you don't care about hitting anything, or you're willing to pay dollars per round to construct your frankenbullet in an accurate and repeatable way, and also don't care about penetrator length at all (and why would anyone care about that lmao?).
Or, you could just use a 20 inch barrel.
Even with a 20in barrel m193 gets like 200 yards of good terminal ballistics. M855a1, mk318, 77gr Tmk get 300+ from a 14.5in barrel. Longer barrel helps, but modern bullets help more.
Yeah bullet choice definitely matters most. However a 18-20” barrel does give you an upside even with better bullets like 75/77gr OTMs
>M855a1
>65k PSI from 50k PSI guns.
Enjoy wrecking your rifle. NGMI.
>mk318, 77gr Tmk
>Shooting TMK at combatants in the hope of better terminal effects at range.
Enjoy even worse terminal effects because even NIJ II stops you at 200 yards from a 14.5in barrel. NGMI.
Of course, you could just use a 20 inch barrel. But you won't do that because larperators on YouTube want to sell you the tools and training for fighting poorly trained and equipped insurgents innasand.
>But you won't do that because larperators on YouTube want to sell you the tools and training for fighting poorly trained and equipped insurgents innasand.
or perhaps I just find the length and balance of a 14.5" to be nice and a worthwhile tradeoff for my needs. nothing wrong with 20" itself but you 20" gays truly are insufferable, it's crazy how you'll call everyone else minmaxxers and then say some minmaxxer bullshit in the same breath.
You're telling me returning to the stock barrel length of 20" instead of a gimped carbine length is "minmaxxing"? Now that's horseshit
Yes, you thundermongoloid, it makes a fraction of the difference that projectile and load design does.
You gigamoron, I dont need new loads just stock NATO spec ammo to get fragmentation from a 5.56 round from a 20" barrel. Now you're minmaxxing projectile design just to compensate for pindick barrels. Sad!
Ladies ladies, while I didn't read your whole argument, I can assure you a 10.5" with 55gr ballistic tips is the superior loadout.
>Enjoy even worse terminal effects because even NIJ II stops you at 200 yards from a 14.5in barrel.
No, it doesn’t. Where do you tards get this stuff?
A 40gr vmax from a 5.7 pistol can go through level II.
%3D
A 77gr 5.56 is moving at least 300fps faster and is a sturdier bullet. But do go on with your fantasies. It’s fun.
Absolute bullshit through and through. I'm all for keeping some 20" or maybe 18" barreled full length rifles around, ergo M16s (let them be mini-DMRs or something), but shorter and handier 14.5" barreled carbines caught on for very good reason, it's a very handy size for maneuvering in tighter quarters, and for CQB the (actually modest) loss in velocity isn't significant.
Ammunition design is a big factor here, and M855 was always subpar for 5.56mm
Because those are a retarded compromise.
>extremely poor
Incorrect, the M16A1 did extremely well.
How's it a retarded compromise, if 77grain 5.56 can fuck people up at 800 from an lmg, and 123gr 6.5 hits three times as hard at 800 yards, 308 can do it at 1200 and 6.5 hits harder than 308 does at that range?
>NIJ II stops you at 200 yards from a 14.5in barre
The absolute state of rifle-length retards
You unironically make me embarrassed to own a 20" build, like I want to have the least amount of association with your bullshit as I possibly can but I love my A1 too much for that so all I can really do is hope you sleepwalk into an interstate one night. God damn.
A wise anon once posted
>PrepHole interest-based boards are generally meant to be outgrown—once you attain some basic level of expertise, visiting a forum with no barriers to entry feels like volunteering at a summer camp for angry retarded kids
>because of the short barrel meme
Short barrel is important. An assault rifle ideally should be the size of an MP5. It's supposed to be a rifle or SMG depending on the situation. I'm sick of people thinking the M16 was the end-all service rifle when it was extremely poor at the second half.
>soldiers have to take 7-800yd shots with their M4s
No they don't. That's just a bald faced lie. Like 80% of engagements happen within about 300 yards. If the environment is urban or jungle, then it's 100% within 200m. The *extremes* are at about 500-600m, which is like the highest .1% of combat distances.
>Yeah no shit when the muzzle is practically pressed against your arm i
Are you trying to suggest that the... gasses from the barrel were so potent at a range of five to ten feet that they blew the arm apart?
Or are you trying to say that the round would have lost a meaningful amount of it's energy inside standard engagement ranges?
>but soldiers have to take 7-800yd shots with their M4s which is absolutely the range where 5.56 runs out of steam from a 14.5
How does 7.62x39 do at 800 yards with a barrel 50% smaller than it should be?
Definitely worse which is why I fully support the move to 277 furry. Fuck intermediate calibers and weak pussy "men" that enable such gayry. You can't pick your engagement distance and even at 500 yards 5.56 is out of steam
Post arms and post guns
>Or are you trying to say that the round would have lost a meaningful amount of it's energy inside standard engagement ranges?
Energy doesn't matter. Velocity does. Fackler amply demonstrated that the amplitude of shockwaves in tissue (ie the energy imparted by a bullet) doesn't correlate to wounding effects, but dozens of studies have shown that the velocity of the wave does, and that the velocity of the wave is almost entirely determined by projectile impact velocity and geometry (meplat and ogive, caliber not being very important).
>but soldiers have to take 7-800yd shots with their M4s
No they don’t you fucking tard. No amount of Sigger propaganda will make 800 yard shots common
800yd shots is what you have your GPMG and DMR for, you gay. People don't engage to that range with M16s, let alone M4s, hell, people weren't engaging to that range with FALs and G3s either, you quadruplemoron.
>Calling other people retarded
>Comparing a gel test of an expanding copper monolithic bullet to real world results of fragmenting fmj
Deply ironic
>posting hollow point ballistic gel test when op is talking about FMJ
holy shit modern rifle gays are clueless
>gay pedantry
Yeah haha bro you're right look at how shitty the gel test for the FMJ 223 is in this pic XDDD! If you hit someone with that, all you'd do is piss them off!
>10 yards
is this supposed to make you look like less of a fucking retard?
Fuck, your're right bro. We really need to focus on the 800-900 yard combat distances, since that's where the real fighting happens. I got BTFO'd hard.
5.56 in an lmg you can still fuck someone up at 8-900 yards
It actually illustrates the problem perfectly, it needs more travel in the body to make a mess.
Shoot a skinny guy from further away the narrow line in front of fragmentation gets longer, possibly passing through the body prior to tumbling.
If outside of fragmentation range it will be the only type of damage to expect. Basically behaving like a handgun round.
Hmm... I see. Still, isn't this "bullets can ice-pick through extremely skinny targets" issue a problem with almost any type of FMJ ammo? Hell, 7.62x39 is notorious for shitty pistol-like wounding with it's FMJ ammo. I don't really see a solid method to get around this other than using things like OTM bullets that instantly fragment.
damn those bonded soft-points fuck shit up.
Not Korea fudd ranges, CQB ranges.
I’ve always had an fascination with cases like these situations, at least with regards to handgun ballistics. Has there ever been any serious studies on this published? Like actual explanations for this phenomena other then conjecture? Also good takeaways in terms of handgun ballistics other then “and this is why [caliber X] is gay retard shit”
Yes actually, it's pretty well explained.
Essentially, pistol bullets have to *physically* contact something in your body in order to cause damage. So, how do pistol bullets kill people? By punching holes. If the hole overlaps with something really important, like a heart or a brain, then you die. But what if it doesn't? Well, then you've just punched a 9mm hole in somebodies body. That isn't necessarily fight stopping all by itself, especially if the hole is just a glancing blow or an extremity hit, only going through some fat or a little muscle. This can cause a person to bleed out, but that takes time.
Almost all pistol rounds are like this. .380 does this, and so does 10mm and 357 mag. It's not because those rounds suck, it's just the physical limitation of pistols as a platform.
Compare the 5.56 ballistics gel result to the 9mm ballistics gel result. Ballistics gel isn't perfect, but it pretty clearly illustrates the difference.
>Compare the 5.56 ballistics gel result to the 9mm ballistics gel result. Ballistics gel isn't perfect, but it pretty clearly illustrates the difference.(pic)
Compare the 7.62 ballistic head result to the 9mm ballistic head result. Ballistic heads aren't perfect, but it pretty clearly illustrates the difference.(MY pic)
I don't know if you were trying to make a counter-argument, but your webm clearly shows the pistol not showing any physical damage and the rifle exploding brain matter across the pavement.
Consider that depending on where it lands, a pencil stabbing into you can kill you in seconds, meanwhile people have literally survived having three inch wide tree branches rammed through their torso and walked to the hospital.
Everything comes down to what gets hit and how.
think about how people are disabled by GSWs in the first place
most bullets are tiny and most shootings are center-mass
as such, police shootings don't usually kill outright, the vast majority of the time it's the pain that keeps suspects down and stops them from fighting
if the suspect isn't affected by pain or can get over it then they will not be incapacitated even with multiple hits. people can ignore pain due to CNS injury, drugs, mental illness, rage or the adrenalin of a life or death situation. a typical zombie is a good example, it will keep being a threat unless its body literally can't function well enough to be a threat
that's why 458 socom was made, as they found that it took multiple hits of regular calibers to incapacitate combatants in africa due to how much drugs with analgesic effects they took. the bigger round causes more damage, more pain, and is more likely to incapacitate in one shot
does anyone actually use .458 Socom in a military? I got one, but that's because I reload (practically) every .458 caliber and wanted a hilarious subsonic chucking AR.
Some spook somewhere might have rocked a chunky thumper with a quietener on it for some very specific task once, but I think the majority of its use is by civilians using it to destroy wild hogs. It's automatic .45-70 basically
doubt it, the teams that would use it are likely very secretive, and wouldn't want to leave behind this kind characteristic evidence
Doubt it. Definitely yes to 300 BO and maaaybe 338 Whisper with brass catchers, since what they leave behind can be passably made to look like something common, and don't have absolute circus level tradeoffs like 458 SOCOM.
>bad guys
Do Americans really?
>iraqifags seething yet again
Lol
Yes as a middle easterner I am really seething at your degenerate and decadent 24/7/365 cultural suicide it really makes me mad that you insist on being the laughing stock of the entire planet
Aww shut up ahmed before i post another scary picture of an abrams
Lmao you lost fatfuck. Talib owns the mideast and sgt jamal got his face melted for nothing go ahead and try to k/d cope you worthless gay zoomer, cant wait to immigrate to your shithole eurozone for free and have a "sexual emergency" on your failed body skinny fat ass
You aren’t middle eastern and why are you larping as one?
>Talib owns the mideast
Do Arabs actually believe this
Maybe some Talibans still on a high from eventually feeling brave enough to come out of hiding after the Americans finally said fuck it and went home.
I heard stories of OP being a gay.
You can power through the pain of basically anything if you enough willpower and/or drugs in your system. Sometimes getting shot doesn't stop people. But blood loss catches up to them eventually. Can't survive long with a hole in you of any size.
This. I’m no expert but it seems like stopping power real long comes down to
>how fast is the blood spraying out of the body
So shot placement is important. Or just aim for the head.
lol tons of videos of russians dropping like bricks after getting hit by 556 on the internet u dumb fag but go ahead and have a nice day with some 556 to test the theory
Yea, it's a thing. The typical military load of the time was m855, if it yaws(turns on its side) going through the target at a high enough velocity then it breaks into pieces causing large wounds and good effect on target. However it yawing isn't a guarantee, let alone yawing early instead of right before exiting or yawing at high enough velocity to break apart. This is a thing with pretty much all military small arms rifle rounds, if they stay nose forward they make holes about the size of the projectile so unless your shot placement is very good they can have poor wounding and effect on target. Rifle rounds really need to expand or fragment to be good at stopping people(excluding large bore stuff with flat nosed projectiles). This is why it's a good idea to use non yaw dependent fragmenting or expanding loads for rifles.
Yup. If it isn’t a CNS hit with any small arms caliber, people can at least temporarily keep fighting. That’s the whole point of assault rifles vs full power rifles, put more rounds downrange with similar accuracy compared to a full power rifle, and eventually one of those hits is CNS.
>what is SCHIV and what is the velocity required to overcome the elasticity of human tissue
There was one guy at the hospital in bagram when I was there who took a 30mm round from a helicopter to his pelvis and was saved and handcuffed to a bed. Was on having a smoke break at their little gazebo and some officer was having a cigar bitching about it.
Sometimes weird shit happens. Typically if you shoot a guy it’ll be more than once and they die pretty quick. Sometimes you just hit them in the lungs and it takes time but they’re in too much shock to do much.
ISIS was feeding some of it's military the modern equivalent of the Nazi meth pills during assaults
>modern equivalent
So, like, meth?
Not exactly, it's a more refined mix of amphetamines not pure meth
So meth?
Really trying to figure out what you meant by this.
Is that Jorge shultzheimerbergstein on the coin
Disgusting mutt
Stopping someone is just taking out the brain, heart, spine or both lungs. Otherwise you're waiting for them to bleed out. I would carry a Keltec cp33 if it weren't for big animals.
556 is one of those rounds where within it's fragmentation range, it's incredibly lethal, but anywhere out of that, then it's literally a .22 bullet. That range varies depending on bullet velocity and range of target.
>I heard stories of bad guys in the middle east getting shot by 5.56 and they just dont go down
You've misheard the people telling you because they've come back with hearing damage. What they're saying is people have been shot with 5.56 and then not GONE AND DROWNED
This is because the Middle East is an arid climate and mostly desert, meaning there are few risks of drowning.
How many little Mexican kids have to blurt "why don't you make a round in the middle?" and lacucharocha plays before they adopt 6.4 herpaderp?
I would expect 7.62x51 FMJ to do even less damage. Low weight puts all the energy into a man-sized target while heavier ammo could need up to 3x the distance to expend its energy.
I've heard wild stories about brick chimneys built out in the yard, not connected to anything.
god damn.
the war tourists and psyops posters have made PrepHole regress over 10 years in knowledge. this place was good 10 years ago. Now we are back to like... 2007 level. Combined with getting randomly banned by the retarded bribed to fuck mods because you hurt some noguns slav's feelings, and yes eastern european militaries are noguns, idk why i even come here. I find myself spending more and more time on other sites, with people that arent frothing at the mouth ignorant agenda driven retards.
I like laughing at and prodding the retards. It's fun, though I admit a lot less fun now than it was prewar
I've seen a deer take a 200gr bullet from a 300wsm right through the heart and lungs at 80 yards. Ran for 400+ with no cardiopulmonary system.
Nerves and muscles can work for awhile with no life support. Just how it is.
Fake retard a 300wm won't expand big enough to take out a deer's heart AND both lungs lmfao