I've been lurking the ww2 subject for my entire life, sometimes, just sometimes, I get angry watching the constant mistakes my country made in weapon procurment.
With Italian weapons you can be ensured that the constant thing you are gonna say is "overall an interesting idea" "it would have been a great weapon/plane/ship IF", it is always like this (with the notable exeption of the Breda 30, which I refuse to even acknowledge).
Look at the Breda 37, it took my people 20 years to remake the M2, and somehow they managed to make it more complicated and worse.
"but at least we can collect the spent brass"
If your concern in the war is to harvest spent cases, maybe you should not get involved in a war to begin with.
The only thing we didn't fucked up was handgrenade, and mines. Those were actually good or at least normal, the rest is hipster stuff.
People talk shit about Germans over engineering their stuff, at least their equipment worked, ours was more complicated only to offer worse results.
just accept it, Italians are for painting and cooking, not killing or governing
The M2 was kinda shit (very simple and esthetic tho). Repeat 100 times a lies and it will be true, guns are like that, make enough and people will start thinking that is good.
>lies
lie
>M2 was bad
Such arrogant claims must be supported by extensive arguments. To me the m2 is the most succesful machine gun ever created.
>To me the m2 is the most succesful machine gun ever created.
Mass produce with taxpayer money something doesn't make it good or successful.
It founds application in every field, from tanks to airplanes to ships. It is still in use, why do you think it is a bad gun.
I am open to hear your argument with no malice, but you must make a case for your argument.
yours is a big claim
>It founds application in every field, from tanks to airplanes to ships. It is still in use, why do you think it is a bad gun.
You could say that with a lot of soviets guns, the crappy PT-chassis, etc.
>yours is a big claim
A 1910s design modded for a new cartridge in the 1920s and with basic fixes (A1) that took just 90 years...
>it isn't bad! it's a feature!
We are all still waiting on you to make an actual argument for why the M2 is a bad machine gun. Please provide it at your earliest convenience.
NTA but you can argue it is unnecessarily heavy. QCB mod mostly fixed the major issues of the original design.(complex barrel swap and headspace/timing setting)
Nice ESL.
UUUU
You're brown.
All right you literal naggers, if the M2 sucks articulate why.
Similarly, the T-55 was the most successful tank ever created. It’s still a bad tank by today’s standards. Likewise, nowadays better HMG designs such as the Kord and QJZ-89 exist
In your opinion, what are the major flaws of the m2, and how it compares with the more modern counterparts?
The t55 was also good. What’s your point?
>webm of Nucking_futs_Yuri cranking his M2 like a bolt action because it breaks down every 3 rounds
The M2 is a shitty recoil-operated design from the 1920s it is obsolete
>some youtuber or whatever fucks up headspacing
>the M2 sucks!
Pathetic.
>obsolete
Ma Deuce will rack up confirmed kills on Mars.
Don't forget the Beretta 1938. That thing was pretty nice.
It made more sense than the 37, I can't even watch the "strip" system. You need 3 assholes to keep inserting and removing them in the middle of a battle, pure nightmare.
inb4
>b-but you can lock 2-3 strips together and make 40-60 rounds.
JUST USE A MAGAZINE OR A BELT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE YOU ANIMAL
Its because italy is not a country, it is on the surface but under the hood it still something the french had to put together quickly to not have to deal with a fucking mess at their border that austria can use against them.
They can adapt well, but never create.
The one piece of equipment I like of my country in ww2 were the handgrenades, and maybe the submarine (nothing special about the last ones, just normal sub with no autism)
IIRC spaghetti subs generally had pokr underwater handling due to large conning towers, with large galley's inside. Because of course we aren't missing calzone night on the high seas.
But, yeah. Italy's forté is pistols, shotguns, SMGs, and maybe aircraft (assuming you get a good enough engine).
I think later on they replaced the tower with german ones (but don't quote me on that) however we are not talking about a huge defect like having a strip fed machine gun, or not being able to make your own 1500HP aircraft engine and 20mm cannons.
Overall Italian subs were "normal", the main issue was the theater, the small med sea could be patrolled in a more efficent way. In the atlantic theater they sometimes achieved good results. I think the Leonardo Da Vinci is the most succesful non german sub of ww2 in terms of tons sunk.
At least you could work with that.
>red devils
yeah, i too like to polute battlefield with unexploded ordnance
>duds
It Is something that can happen to any grenade, I don't know how they compare to other models. The thing that made them obsolete and that had them replaced few years ago was the fact that the safety mechanics made It almost impossible to use them inside a Building.
However a nice piece of equipment, I don't know about the new grenade that replaced It...the only thing I know about them Is that a young girl Who worked in the factory got blinded when a grenade detonated.
Nah I like them, also you can remove the PIN with your teeth, which makes for cool factor.
It didn't used chemical time fuse, once the safety is disengaged it detonates on impact.
picture this, you yeet it into sand, moss, tall grass or your pasta and it lands light enought that it may not trigger the impact fuze.
just like that it becomes a anti-personel mine with a seismic sensor detonator.
Neat, a dual purpose weapon!
Yes, I am aware of that but I love impact grenades, I prefer them to time fuze...they can't throw them back at you.
The system of the scm Is neat basically It has an additional safety that disengage mid Flight. Solid Toy.
WW2 Italy, and Interwar Italy for that matter was a giant fuckup of a country stuck in a limbo of failed industrialization, labor movements and fascism clashing with entrenched politics, a cancerous social structure almost as medieval as Russian serfdom and never having recovered either economically nor demographically after WW1. That anything at all was accomplished is a phenomenal feat.
Once the US stuck its dick firmly up Italy's ass and pulled all stops to crush communist influence, puppeteered its economy to foster a better environment for industries and enforced an acceptable degree of stability, Italian manufacture fluorished, cars, guns, electronics, clothes, etc. Italian names are to this day still associated with high end luxury shit like Gucci, Ferrari, Armani, Prada, Alfa Romeo, Dolce&Gabana, etc.
The Carcano wasn't bad, it was a particularly robust action but 7.35 didnt need to happen, some of the Carbine variants were badly thought out, and overall it needed a better sighting system.
The Beretta SMG's were without a singular doubt the best in WW2 bar none - beating out even pre-MP40 german SMG's of the 1930's that had an autistic level of old world attention to detail and mass to tame recoil - as well as late war SMG's like the PPS-43 and the Patchett.
Also Italy was the first country to develop a "under-barrel" grenade launcher (though it was technically quasi side mounted) for the Carcano.
MG wise they were an absolute fucking joke and should have just made the MG-34 - with the strange caveat that some of their Aviation grade MG's like the Breda-Safat were legit good and should have been explored for ground use.
The same can be said for a lot of their artillery, though they did have some good AA gun designs late war.
Also despite later Beretta's borrowing heavy from the P38 - it's important to note that quite a bit of Walthers designs of that period were influenced by early Beretta's and both the PP/PPK and P38 share features with the Beretta M1934
pasgetti :DDDD
To be fair the 38 was the best submachine gun of the war that was put into widespread service.
He is obviously some sort of centrist politically but people flip out and say he is either a SS volunteer born too late or a communist based on the most slightly political statements by him lol
>best smg of the war is italian
The mp40 is Italian?
the mp40 is the grease gun?
They really did suck. Japs small arms were also woefully disappointing.
for me its the Breda Model 1931,
Breda-SAFAT is cool too.