Hypothetically, if I loaded an AP discarding sabot into a black powder cannon could I defeat tank armor?

Hypothetically, if I loaded an AP discarding sabot into a black powder cannon could I defeat tank armor?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Hypothetically, what would cause a doctor to botch an abortion?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Hypothetically, what would cause a doctor to botch an abortion?
      Some babies just refuse to die, for example Justin Bieber survived his abortion attempt.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Hypothetically, what would cause me and my mates to cop a feel of every tit before we proceed with breast reduction surgery? The anesthetist gave us a time limit of 5 minutes to take pics and play with the nipples. The nipples get erect even when knocked out. Hypothetically.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, BP inefficiency means you won't have enough velocity. You're looking at a niche min maxed performance of about 2000-2500 fps with a 1/4th lb high BC Tungsten alloy or core sabot projectile. And that's if you have a legit forge and specialist machine shop to build the thing to PSI specs, not to mention it'll probably cost you more than a brand new mid to high end car to build to those specs. It might be possible, likely even to defeat light armor (think APCs and armored wheeled vehicles) with that set up but not modern MBT armor.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      BP autists tell me. Can we get a load of tungsten balls to a sufficient velocity to defeat IFVs? Because that would be based as frick.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/EikLQjK.jpg

        Hypothetically, if I loaded an AP discarding sabot into a black powder cannon could I defeat tank armor?

        black powder is a low-velocity propellant
        even with an infinite amount of powder and an infinitely long barrel, your projectile will never exceed the speed of its blast wave, which is subsonic

        so a long-rod penetrator would be useless because it could never go fast enough
        only way to destroy a thick slab of steel with blackpowder as a propellant is to therefore increase the mass of the projectile until its sheer intertia can batter the target down
        but this would require turning your cannon into a powder keg that is more likely to blow you up

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >your projectile will never exceed the speed of its blast wave, which is subsonic
          Plenty of BP rounds that go supersonic. Pretty much every single rifle cartridge.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >every single rifle cartridge.
            >BP
            Not only are you moronic, you also have no guns

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Did you not know there were BP cartridges?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The overwhelming majority uses smokeless powder. There are a lot of moronic guns around, like .50 BMG pistols, so I would assume BP cartridge rifles exist too.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >so I would assume BP cartridge rifles exist too.
                You don't have to assume, anon. You just have to think. What do the numbers ".45" and "70" mean in the name .45-70, for example?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                moron here. Is it .45 caliber 70 grains of BP.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              People using toilet paper homemade BP achieve 1200+ fps from modern flintlock replicas. A more niche BP hunting setup like a .54 cal conical weighing 300-400grs with 110+gr of powder achieves 1200-1400 fps in flintlock and caplock replicas with BP. The British designed a BP cartridge that got up to 2000 fps, and some cannon designs could achieve 1500 fps with BP.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You know he meant "just about every single ****BP**** rifle cartridge" right?
              Is this pedantic point just to distract from the fact that you said this?

              [...]
              black powder is a low-velocity propellant
              even with an infinite amount of powder and an infinitely long barrel, your projectile will never exceed the speed of its blast wave, which is subsonic

              so a long-rod penetrator would be useless because it could never go fast enough
              only way to destroy a thick slab of steel with blackpowder as a propellant is to therefore increase the mass of the projectile until its sheer intertia can batter the target down
              but this would require turning your cannon into a powder keg that is more likely to blow you up

              >your projectile will never exceed the speed of its blast wave, which is subsonic

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >your projectile will never exceed the speed of its blast wave, which is subsonic
          This is not true, there are plenty of well documented black powder loads which exceed this.
          Lyman Black Powder Handbook 2nd edition gives 2200 fps as a standard load for a .45 cal muzzleloader with a 120 grain charge and a round ball. There are numerous similar velocities for smaller caliber rifles as well.
          British Sporting Rifle Cartridges by Fleming describes antique cartridges like .500./.450 BPE which took the same size bullet but 140-160 grains of powder which would have exceeded that.
          The 2008 edition of the Hodgon muzzeloader manual states 2295 fps shooting a Knight Red Hot saboted bullet over 100gr of 3F, .45 cal, 24in bbl.
          First edition of Lyman b. p. manual states 2505 fps for a .36 Cal Kentucky Longrifle, 43" barrel, 70 grains 3F and a round ball.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          A 36 pounder at 110 yards would penetrate 54 inches of solid oak according to contemporary french sources, I bet it would at least frick up some light skin IFV.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Damn. That's probably old growth too.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yeah, Here is a vid of a recreation of a 24 pounder found on the Vasa ship shooting at a model hull simulating the Vasa at lower gun deck which is 40 cm thick. They found out through testing that a lighter hull added more protection for the crew than a thicker mainly because a thicker hull would create splinters as heavy as 10 kg flying about 200 m/s, It would surely frick you up.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I am always looking for penetration testing of old cannons, what's your source, I'd like to read it.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >so a long-rod penetrator would be useless because it could never go fast enough
          More sectional density is always a good thing, I would never say "useless". A Tungsten dart is going to penetrate phenomenally better than a cast iron ball, even at mach 1

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Would be interesting what kind of penetration you would get with a 3d printed sabot and a heat treated steel penetrator. You could lathe a projectile diy, but yea you aren't going to be working tungsten.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    no

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous
  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, with explosive shells you could take out an APC though

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You would need like 50 kg of propellant instead of 8-10 kg.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't think black powder has the burnrate fast enough to accelerate the round through the front plate of a tank.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Just need a big enough shell
      I have no reason to doubt a Victorian era 12" pre-dreadnaught battery couldn't stave in the front of a mbt

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It would not be doing it through KE defeating the armor but momentum causing damage to the turret mounting.

        The armor on early dreadnaughts was not that thick, and their guns not that capable.

        Ex, this was the last british capital ship gun before smokeless powder.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RML_12-inch_35-ton_gun

        The muzzle velocity was only 420m/s, which is very low. The difference in muzzle between modern Sabot and modern "shell" is around 50%. This would indicate that even shooting sabot, the black powder gun would ready a muzzle velocity of about 600m/s with a 4 inch or so projectile. This is about equal to a WW2 era tank gun and any MBT would shrug off a hit to the front turret/glacis (barring damage to the turret mount from momentum transfer).

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          A saboted dart would have a sectional density, and overall hardness, vastly higher than any Naval projectile, early or otherwise, which would greatly effect penetration.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >AP discarding sabot
    picrel is apfsds
    >black powder canon
    like a M1857 Napoleon?
    >could I defeat tank armor
    yeah
    It's amazing how these moronic threads get replies

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How big a cannon?
    I'm pretty sure this would defeat modern tank armor without the sabot.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100-ton_gun

    A 300mm diameter 2m long sabot from some civil war dahlgren gun loaded with a bursting charge could probably get high enough velocity to pen a T-72.

    Remember it is also the length of the sabot which contributes to the penetration. By increasing the length by 20% we nearly doubled the penetration of modern sabots. Hence why the Russian 125mm is inferior to the 120mm reihnmetal, because the later can accept a longer projectile.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Velocity is the big problem. It'd be theoretically possible with a big enough cannon obviously, you could just scale up the dart once you hit the speed limit until you eventually broke through, but no one does penetration statistics for mega sized half velocity modern tank darts.

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