How would you go by making a Liberator-esque gun in 2023?
>cheap to mass produce
>intended to be dropped into an occupied country for the resistance to use
>easy to use
Preparedness & self-sufficiency community
How would you go by making a Liberator-esque gun in 2023?
>cheap to mass produce
>intended to be dropped into an occupied country for the resistance to use
>easy to use
There's already a 3D printed single shot pistol called Liberator. To be honest, and not to just dunk on each other, I don't know about its accuracy or durability and if it would fit your personal criteria.
3D printing can be good if you're just some guy or are working on prototypes, but it sucks for mass production.
You know there are industrial 3D printers right? Off the top of my head many new suppressors made by DD and SIG are 3D printed and mass produced.
They're only 3d printed because they need internal geometry literally impossible to produce by any other means. It's by far more expensive to make them that way than by traditional methods when both are possible.
>it sucks for mass production.
it really depends on what constraints you're operating under
take a typical garage, drill some sturdy shelves along the walls, fill em with $200 ender3s, have 1 dude there to remove prints from beds and replace filaments, and you can get a very decent little operation going
ofc if you have the budget/space/ability to procure specialized equipment for something even better, then you can do better
$10 hacksaw, $2 pipe
then just injection mold the same design. boom, done.
Wait until you find out how they make polmer
A joke. You can literally melt plastic into a mold, why the fuck would you need a 3D printer other than because you're stupid and lazy?
How do you make the mold?
I work at a company making injection-molding plastics, so I'm speaking from experience when I say you are an absolute retard if you think making molded parts is easier than buying a printer and running PLA through an extruder.
It takes an amount of manufacturing infrastructure and supply network that makes it very simple for the military, feasible for a medium size business, but nearly impossible for the layman.
liberator is a factory made gun in concept, for less materiel-capable factories
Stamped metal pistols and 3D printed guns are apples and oranges.
I was specifically speaking to the point of injection plastics, for single or limited-use plastic-based firearms.
thats gibberish. injection molding is ideal for crude low-mid run parts with way smaller tooling requirements.
You know, I can see what you're saying given that OP specifically said "mass production" implying a single source, and I interpreted it as being able to be ubiquitously produced.
Injection molding is how any typical polymer firearm part is made. A glock isn't a liberator, a 3D printed gun is not a glock, and a garage gun isn't either of the three. I guess it depends on how you read the question. The liberator was borne out of relative scarcity during rationing. The preconditions that surrounded its creation are pretty far-fetched in the western world now, which is why I read it the way I did.
The original liberator wasn't built by the layman, it was made by an actual manufacturing company. The point wasn't to make a gun that was easy for anyone to make, it was to make a gun that would be extremely cheap to mass produce and send to resistance groups.
OP said mass production
is talking about mass production
You are the retard
Hi-Point but even less polished. Just cast slides, machine only whatever is absolutely necessary to work, and leave the rest exactly as it is out of the mold.
>Hi-Point but even less polished. Just cast slides, machine only whatever is absolutely necessary to work, and leave the rest exactly as it is out of the mold.
that is pretty much exactly what a Hi-Point is right now. I bet the most assembly done on a C9 is putting it in the packaging
They at least deburr them so you don't cut yourself. Not so with the Hi-Point Liberator. You don't wanna get cut, bring your own file.
Hi point hate is a meme. New Hi-Points function fine, the shitty reputation comes from the fact that the Urban Scholars that buy them do zero maintenance and beat the fuck out of them until they malfunction.
Hi Point will take back any damaged gun and fix it up for you for free, but the Basketball Astronauts that buy them don't know this.
Don't get me wrong, Hi-Point is based as hell. Everything a gun needs to run reliably and not the slightest bit more.
Probably something like what keltec makes but even cheaper. All of it can be injection molded except for the barrel, gas system, and the bolt.
If you don't care about the weapon being any good and you just want to sneak up on people like the original Liberator, you could probably do something like
always been my favorite meme gun, could go smaller than 5.56 to hold together though.
only because the massive cost of scaling up manufacturing for them is pre-paid for scale.
How much cheaper could you make a gun like this?
Could you make the bolt out of sheet metal?
Is there a cheaper operating system than a gas piston?
>bolt out of sheet metal
you probably mean some other kind of metal stock but no locking mechanisms are vitally important to something of that power. it isn't like a 9mm blowback gun.
>cheaper operating system
above a certain amount of pressure all expense goes to bolt lockup and not cycling the action. delayed blowback cheapens the bolt costs but requires more expensive receivers.
If I were making a liberator tier weapon I would not use full pressure military ammo of any caliber. Something small and wildcatty or the heaviest possible pistol.
Why didn't they just drop a bunch of loaded 1911s instead of this ineffective memeshit?
1911s are expensive and a large percent of anything dropped over occupied territory is going to be collected by the occupiers, they didn't want to deliver crates of 1911s to the Wehrmacht.
the Liberators were never intended for any sort of combat use anyway, they were for targeted assassinations and for ambushing unwary guards and stealing their better guns. The idea isn't to go to battle with the liberators, its to shoot occupiers who are either unawware or believer you to be unarmed in the head at point blank range.
They were even intentionally designed to be useless as a combat arm, they have to be taken apart to be reloaded and have a total capacity of like three rounds, one loaded in the chamber and two more stored in the grip, but again you have to disassemble he gun for a second shot.
Even more than the cost of the stamped 1911, which the US could easily have afforded, was the fact that we didn't want to give the germans any sort of functional practical arms and then have those arms use against american troops later or french civilians right then.
Not exactly. You pull back on a piece at the rear, rotate it to the side, and then push up a little bracket that holds the cartridge in place. The real problem is that there's no good way to extract the casing; you have to use a little stick pushed up the barrel to poke it out.
>decimate your wrist
It's not that bad. the .45 Double Tap is far less comfortable to shoot.
Don't mistake any of this for praise, though. The Liberator is a shit gun, and probably only useful for assassinating people.
Because they couldn't make a hundred-thousand 1911s in an afternoon.
I absolutely love the crude look of it, wish they were made today for popping some bottles for fun
Same. Seen this thing before?
They wanted to, but costs. Picrel.
man this thing is so ugly it loops back to looking cool
Just like you anon <3
>hes so gay hes looped around back to straight
will and grace was funny.
Fallout 4 looking gun
If forgotten weapons is to be trusted, you are not going to hit a bottle that's farther than two meters and it'll fucking decimate your wrist
>it'll leave your wrist at 90% strength
Maybe I don't wanna go plinking with it, but popping a few rounds off just to know what it's like would be a worthwhile experience.
They had an unrifled barrel you couldn’t plink with it. Pretty much designed to pop occupiers in the back of the head and take their guns.
they have repro, saw one at a gun show for $625
I'd assume the design phase would involve a suitcase of cocaine and a trip to Kel-Tec's office.
>a suitcase of cocaine and a trip to Kel-Tec's office
That's how WWIII will be won.
>ywn own a belt fed .45 pistol
gunkata is a real martial art
The guns were made. In vast quantities. Only a very small percentage were actually distributed to resistance fighters. The reason for this was that it was going to kill a lot of resistance fighters and resistance fighter families and make the US govt look bad, while not making much of a dent in the enemy's ranks. The gun works and is heavy calibre, but range and precision is bad. Based in this, I predict no government will mass produce such low end weapons again. And only govts can truly mass produce weapons.
>And only govts can truly mass produce weapons.
false and non-american-pilled
all the largest arms makers on earth are American civilian corporations and the US domestic civilian market for firearms outstrips all military markets by a massive margin.
American civilians literally own 1/3 of the earths small arms. And the American government owns like another 10%.
Did you think I was envisioning state workers pumping out guns? Of course civilian companies make them. But the state places the orders. The large ones.
not true, the largest single batch orders come from states, but the actual largest volume goes to the american civil market, and that figure keeps getting higher and higher.
American's buy new and surplus guns all the time. I share my house with my nephew, we are the only two people here, in our house there are ~25 rifles and 5 shotguns, and we are both poor as fuck and utterly unremarkable for our area.
Guns are CHEAP here, you can buy a brand new AR in most of the country for like a weeks wage. And we buy them by the millions. In 2020 american civilians purchased 20 million new manufacture guns. That was more than every national government on earth combined that year. In 2022 that number fell off to*only* 16 million, which is still more than every government on earth.
You people who are not American, literally have no concept of how well armed we are on average, something like 70% of american households are armed and many of those are like me, with enough guns to arm my entire street/anyone on my street who is not armed, which around here is only a couple people.
>70% of american households are armed
Google says it's less than 50% and it has remained fairly stable for decades, what's your source for this meme number? Seems too high.
illegally owned guns are very common, tons of Hispanics blacks and white felons have guns they are not allowed to have and which according to official data they don't have.
basically the only people in america who don't own firearms are white liberals, asians and maybe like half of the single mother blob.
The Hispanics all have guns, legal and illegal, Every black that can manage it has a gun. Virtually every rural/hillbilly countryboy you have ever seen owns at least 3-4 guns by the time he is 19, MANY of them lie about because we do not trust the government. I have been buying guns for 20 years now and only one of them ever went through NICS, and that was my bear rifle, the govt can know that own a big bolt gun, the rest I bought intentionally in ways that did not require paperwork, becasue I distrust the government and they have been caught illegally archiving the paperwork over and over and over.
The official number is much lower than the real number because HUGE numbers of guns are owned off the books both legally an illegally, but a householdwith an illegally owned handgun or banned AR in a cuck state, is still an armed household.
Everything I own is owned completely legally, I am in fact very careful about it because I live in cuck state, but I still own a whole bunch of guns that never touched the books in my name. That I bought off friends, family and at private sales when that was legal here.
>American civilians literally own 1/3 of the earths small arms.
>own 1/3 of the earths small arms
>do nothing against country-wide BLM riots
>get election stolen
>Could easily acquire a weapon
>actually prefers being a rape slave like his father before him
>Criticizes the armed for not doing more
>y-you're supposed to invade the cities to save corporate assets from the nogs!
>w-what do you mean you live in an unincorporated city and live in a cash only tax free white parallel society!?
Not my problem, come try that shit out here in the sticks boy.
>polymer grip/FCG for cheap injection molding
>sten or ppsh tube and bolt+spring on top.
Ultimately only a large industry can mass produce guns. Like even if you could circumvent the coming rationing of steel or other raw resources, you'd either need injection molding machines, mills and lathes or metal stamping equipment to churn out reasonable numbers of equipment.
I guess the most bang for your buck will be a gun thats largely polymer and uses very round or very square metal parts that require a minimum of machining and welding to be completed.
and it was useless. the STEN is how you make a cheap effective weapon for resistance groups. The follow-up idea with the Low Maintenance Rifle, designed to be cheaply made, very simply (full auto only), and intended for dropping to insurgents.
They cancelled it because it's better to just give them proper weapons that they already have hundreds of thousands of in storage.
I guess really you could just start making STENs again, or STEN-like weapons with a large amount of injection moulded plastic parts, like the TEC9s they find being made in illegal workshops sometimes
a "sten" in like modernized~ 30carbine with a decently long rifled barrel. What even fills that PDW ammo role that isn't just extra light 9mm or stupid high pressure 5.56?
Essentially what happened during the break up of Yugoslavia. They used a lot of different designs based on the STEN.
Also worth mentioning that the Brits had their own take on the LMR, basically a scaled up Sterling using a lever-delayed blowback to handle .308, in case they had to make weapons during a Soviet invasion of Western Europe.
>How would you go by making a Liberator-esque gun in 2023
i would make a real shitty single stack and call it “hi point”
>easy to use
The Liberator wasn't.
I'd make it a single-shot, integrally suppressed 9mm PCC that folds or quickly assembles/disassembles into three 6" segments and is topped with a 4x scope that is just robust enough to not lose zero and just clear enough to aim at a target 100 yards away.
Create a city of snipers wherever they're dropped. Broken down, it can be concealed in waistbands and used to kill individuals from relative safety. The concept of tapping dudes in the back of the head with the Liberator requires dedication that the average civilian just won't have and puts them in inescapable danger if it doesn't go exactly according to plan, but taking a relatively safe shot from a building and immediately fucking off before anyone knows where it came from requires significantly less commitment and greatly increases retainment of people willing to kill occupying soldiers.
>topped with a 4x scope
>Scopes are expensive and for the cost of putting them on your suppressed pipe you could just drop a cheapshit Mauser action.
>Dropping glass in general lol.
>If a dumb civilian cant shoot at 100yards with irons a scope isnt gonna help em lol
Its a noguns ass post bro
The 4x scope is what loses you and not the other shit?
>integrally suppressed 9mm
You're describing a Welrod.
>folds or quickly assembles/disassembles into three 6" segments
Too complicated for untrained fresh recruits to a resistance movement. Just make it small enough to conceal. Like a Welrod.
>Broken down, it can be concealed in waistbands and used to kill individuals from relative safety.
This is how Welrods were used, but there was no need to break them down. They also don't look much like a gun, so they don't draw attention unless the occupying soldiers know what they're looking for.
The inherent issue with the single-shot pistol concept is being right next to the guy you're trying to kill. The chances of something going wrong and getting your insurgents killed goes up drastically. 100 yards is optimistic, but a fair max effective range. Even 40 yards is WAY beyond what the average retard can do with a pistol and is retarded easy for even the greenest shooter.
That's why the SOE made an incredibly quiet bolt action repeater gun that doesn't look like a gun. You won't attract attention carrying it, you have multiple chances to hit your target and if you fail you can just run away without having made any noise. Tests on refurbished Welrods showed they are imperceptible at 15 feet, so if you used it from a 1st floor window your target probably won't even notice you are shooting at him.
>He's never heard a round buzzing through the air over the crack of the pistol
>gun used to acquire gun
its just 4winds shotties if geneva convention shit doesn't apply. maybe some .45LC or .38spl in smoothebore just-a-pipe design.
i actually kind of love that rotary design. not the grip or firing pin.
picrel for the slightly-higher-effort crowd
OK... I need to know what's going on with that. There must be more.
I wish I knew, it's obvious what it is and what it's doing but what absolute madman would ever do such a thing?
As a nation with mass production put behind this project?
Basically just crank out one of a million variations of derringers that already work in whatever caliber you deem appropriate.
It'd probably be much more efficient to support the smuggling of regular weapons and ammunition into the target country, or to support people in the country setting up small scale facilities to make their own weapons and ammo. In any country besides a stone age shithole people could already make single shot ambush weapons to assassinate or whatever, they just don't do it. Putting a Liberator in their hands is not going to do much if they were already unwilling to make or buy a weapon on their own.
At a cost of less than $400 Palmetto State Armory 9mm Daggers are about as good a "Liberty " gun as you will find . IMHO
Semper Fidelis PSA
> cheaper that 500$
> Life cycle >1000 rounds
> You can print it in cheap 3d-printer
probably aren't enough spare parts around to make liberator amounts of fgc-9's, need better design if anything.
Uh, no. Because 95% parts of this gun you can be printed.
And now this mass-prodused gun used by myanmahboys against brutal junta (like liberator)
>just add more plastic parts to get the printable parts count up
i just assume you throw junk factories at it. print one off okay quality CNC'd mold and throw plastic at it til its worthless.
what is the pistol equivalent of it?
This thing allready is. Just like tec-9. But if you want "pistol-like" stuff - bunch of 3d-printed glock-like models for yor service.
really not a problem anymore because of the prevalence of industrialization. you would be better to drop ammo.
but if I had to, just contract high-point.
the fundamental problem with this kind of weapon is that it really doesn't work. and honestly you are better off dropping fauster slugs and buck shot, and no gun what so ever. cause the pipe shot gun pretty much has you covered, or else you can built a "hunting shotgun" like the arab's,paki's, and afghan's do.
You wouldn't necessarily need the vertical grips
I'd make a very simple system consisting of just a barrel, breachblock and firing pin, all contained in a small tube. This can then be hidden in everyday objects. Put them in pens, umbrellas, mobile phones, etc.
If it was modern, then it would be outsourced to the lowest bidder: hi-point.
Ring of fire guns exist and you can get an LCP for $260 at Cabela's which means you could likely get it cheaper elsewhere. There's no need to design a new gun for this purpose in the current year.
FGC-9 mk 2
You can't mass produce those.
you wouldn't, because manufacturing techniques and capacities aren't the same anymore, and there's been a century of firearms construction and proliferation without enough wars to chew through them
the 3d printed gun, or far more likely, stocks of old foreign aid guns from wherever and whenever is a far better choice, not only economically but politically
I always think it would be relatively easy to machine something like a sten gun. Those early ww2 submachine guns were very simple in design, if not as effective or reliable as modern ones.
upload LCP 3dprint schematics, mail barrels to England and other totalitarian regimes
It’s working, they’re so desperate they’re trying a great firewall approach https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/01/uk-police-removing-large-amount-of-online-gun-making-guides
Guns like this never made sense when you could just drop a bunch of derringers instead.
Derringers never make sense when microcompacts and cheap effective ones too are a thing
I'd drop better weapons because it's not WWII any more.
Someday I wish to drop weapons of this category into one third world country on behalf of a neighboring 3rd world country so this ww2 stuff will all still apply.