Let's face it, conscripting the elderly is the future. It's not a bad idea either. Much better to live a full life and go out in a blaze of glory in the army than to either die at 21 or die in a nursing home.
But they'll also need a lot more training to get in passable shape, and learning skills takes longer when you're old. So how would you do it PrepHole?
Bonus points if you also design an AARP-AIT plan
Find geographically advantageous positions behind the front line, have young guys build fortifications. Put old farts in it and wish them luck if they become the front line
bleek
For anyone curious, guys this old typically strong armed TDF recruiters into letting them join in the opening days of the war by threatening to either join a militia unit or just march off to the front themselves if they weren’t allowed to join. They’re basically old farts who wanna give back to the country one last time before they kick it.
That's a good point. The truly motivated old farts might be able to handle faster-paced training
Even 60 year olds will on average be better at building forts than young guys nowadays, just due to how blue collar labor has fallen out of fashion. I guess you'd send the in shape 60 year olds to do that and send the out of shape old guys to man the forts
Retard
What the fuck is this boomerphile saying? You think Timmy College was a macho jungle warrior before getting sent to Vietnam? Blue collar labor is not some training program, there's staggeringly little difference between the untrained fighting potential of le expert marksman Appalachian and your average inner city lobotomite in a real, industrial war. You can keep pretending young people are useless to make yourself feel better but when you're talking about this bullshit in public you're going to hear the reality: That zoomer can be taught to dig a fighting position, and at that point they're a younger, stronger version of you that will heal faster, learn faster, and train easier than some dumbfuck codger who thinks he's hard enough already.
That zoomer will blow his brains out long before being made to dig a trench anon. Especially moreso when they won't have the luxury to vent on reddit about their DS or platoon lead misgendering them and the ensuing panic attack.
>AHHHHH KIDS THESE DAYS AND THEIR INTERNET
You are a parody of yourself
Giwtwm
damn, what absolute units
Based as fuck
Please stop saying such things, Sir, you are not doing the needful.
My great grandfather did the same in WWII. They assigned him to management of internment camps to keep him out of trouble (didn’t exactly work)
>didn't exactly work
Care to tell us the tale?
>management of internment camps
Which side
based history understander (both sides in WWII were on equal moral footing and the entire fight was just about control over trade)
tankies on their way to deny their team also commit genocide ;(
What do you think "both sides" are, retard? The allies and the axis. That includes the soviets.
shut the FUCK up you absolute brainrotted moron, you're frothing at the mouth looking for someone to argue with and looking past the people who agree with you because your cholesterol is higher than your IQ. go back to school.
>looking past the people who agree with you
Please link those posts to me, thanks. I must have missed them.
see
you clearly did miss it and asking me to point out for you a post that was just posted is not the win you think it is
Sorry, I guess I misunderstood your garbled ESL nonsense.
>pretending to be retarded
ineffective way to save face on the internet, retard
No no, now you're the one who misunderstands. I wasn't calling myself retarded; I was calling YOU retarded. Retard.
>no u
Retard
>no u
Retard
refer to
you can have the last word. go ahead
Kys
Same, the Seabees famously had tons of old farts who brought a lot of construction experience with them
Yeah and I'm the opposite side that's why there's so many Russian boomers too! :DDDDD
Absolute retards.
Lol yeah, it's because Russia is a shithole that's losing a war, needs men constantly and Ukraine is winning with much lower losses.
Russia is conscripting them.
sure.... yes, that's exactly whats going on here
Ideally, they should be veterans who are there to get a physical to ensure they're still capable of operating on the field. Someone who hasn't been a soldier in his life at all for that time is better served continuing his existing job for the economy.
meanwhile from last june
Soul
Vs
Souless
What are the chances these guys fought together in Afganistan?
Yes, thank you for proving my point. Both the huge nation and the highly motivated nation have AARP-airborne, showing that this truly is the future.
In WW1 the populations were way younger on average
What if they're fighting other old people?
Tactical tracked mobility scooter when?
sounds like boot camp should have a weight lifting component then for the olds
> In WW1 the populations were way younger on average
People didn’t live as long or were as healthy in older age as they are now you fucking retard. A 40 year old from 1910 is like a 60 year old now.
They’d be like 150 by now
There were some crusty old bastards that were still kicking around during WW1. Pic related was the oldest confirmed to have fought in combat at 84, and the US Army had an officer that fought as a child soldier during the Civil War
Those look like average Russians from the 25-30 demographic
>WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER GUYS
Just as insufferable as the vatniks, I would hope that once this war ends people like you would just fuck off but after 2016 I know better
>they bought?
This is just what Russians look like when they hit 30 thanks to all the alcoholism
Russian Tommy Lee Jones second from the right
Typically a competent modern army is 20% actual combat troops at best.
Forklifts, logistics, intelligence, drone operators, artillery, tank drivers, mechanics mechanics mechanics, doctors nurses, trainers, electricians, programmers, people who can actually sew, clothes makers, road makers,tractor operators truckers, engineers engineers engineers.
Are all generally needed and women and 60 year old men can do that shit. One of the biggest reasons Russians lost this war is they didn't have any forklift drivers worth a shit. It's amazing to read. They are insanely slow and bad at using forklifts and think they can actually run a military
>artillery, tank drivers, mechanics
A lot of those jobs are going to be even worse for an old man than the infantry. Artillery shells are 100lbs each, and ask any tanker about how bad the manual labor is on one.
>you can drive a forklift into the M777 to load shells
Ok retard
The shells won't lift themselves out of the pallet and into the breach you mongoloid
You think Hulk Hogan would struggle with artillery shells you daft fuck?
Look at perma online noodle arms right here.
Someone post that webm of the Ukrainian ogres handling an artillery piece.
>You think Hulk Hogan
Yes, also Hulk Hogan is not your average Ukrainian 60-year-old boomer
soft hands corpo drone you have no idea how strong those farmhands are
what do you think these men did all their lifes they are blue collar lads not some soft computer cunt
You use the old men to drive the forklift and operate the cranes retard. You get the old tradesmen who are fit to work with the younger guys when it comes to moving individual shells.
>The age limit for Home Guards to work on Z Batteries was 60, whereas it was 40 for those posted to conventional anti-aircraft guns and coast defence batteries, because of the heavier ammunition.
The U.S. still has some State Guards that were formed as equivalent Home Guard during WWII. They're volunteer reservists for natural disasters now and focus mainly on managing shelters. California = wildfires. Gulf Coast states = hurricanes. Stuff that older people can do while the National Guard actually goes out to rescue people from rooftops. I think they do help out the N.G. on the border in Texas on engineering tasks. They're not part of the DOD, so not really military, and under the authority of the state governor, they can't be federalized. During WWII they patrolled beaches and guarded infrastructure.
I've read mixed responses to them. It also apparently varies a lot depending on the state. On the one hand, some soldiers like working with them because they're volunteers, don't complain, and it's easier to get them to do stuff than many younger N.G. troops. They can also be like a Swiss army knife, because many of them are boomers who know a lot of stuff, can be very handy, and they have EMTs and cops in their ranks. But there's some friction because they're not (really) soldiers, and can come across as LARPers, and there are some cases where State Guard "officers" have expected regular army troops to defer to them, return salutes (which you don't have to do if you're in the military), but I think usually everyone knows how to manage that and fill their appropriate role. Many of the "officers" are former military anyways.
I think it'd be a good idea to grow their numbers, but also improve PT, boost the benefits / pay (since they only get paid when called up, and not a lot). You can probably do a lot with them, have them learn how to use drones, stuff like that.
>Typically a competent modern army is 20% actual combat troops at best.
This. Give the old guys jobs driving supplies and cooking chow.
Don't fight the hypothetical. I'm specifically asking about how to use them as front line troops, including infantry
OP here. I'm just barely not a zoomer, and I legitimately think boomers are better at manual labor than me despite their old age. I can outlift them, outrun, and kick their ass in a fight, but they can still build stuff faster.
Very cool, tell us more. Was he in good shape before joining?
This is probably the way to go. Just chalk it up as another combat risk
>>You can't just have them moving boxes around and digging trenches all day because they will inevitably start herniation disc's in their backs and that pretty much takes them all the way out of the fight.
You'll probably need to rotate them on shifts if they're on the front, but this also gives you enough extra people to conscript that it makes shift work possible
>I can outlift them, outrun, and kick their ass in a fight, but they can still build stuff faster.
They just had to fix and make more things themselves when they were younger. My mom and her sisters would make their own Barbie™ dresses when they were kids. They'd knit the clothes and even made a palanquin for them out of cardboard so the Kens could carry the Barbies around like they were the queens.
>tank drivers
I'm fairly sure tank drivers take part in frontline combat. Did you mean "frontline infantry"?
These old boomers are decked the fuck out.
Better equipped than Russian front line soldiers.
You wouldn't want them to be all raggedy for your propaganda pic
>Better equipped than Russian front line soldiers
u paid for it, instead of healthcare for your kids
>instead of healthcare for your kids
We already pay more per capita for healthcare than any other country. Our healthcare problems are on the supply side so throwing more money to the consumer to buy healthcare isn't really going to help much anyway.
>u paid for it,
these weapons were bought 20+ years ago with the military budget that was been in existence since we had an army
>instead of healthcare for your kids
American healthcare is some of the best in the world, and people pay insurance on their own
That shit was paid for in the 80’s while the only medical care Mobkins receive is a daily prostate exam from their Chechen friends
>EU doesn't have universal healthcare
>most Americans don't have Healthcare Russians could never even imagine.
>this equipment isn't really old
Whatever the land of the second most powerful military needs to cope.
Are these old men spry enough to jump onto a mine? Then they're ready to go into action.
Hard discrimination in assigning roles. In WW1 old guys who were pulled in from reserves were assigned to maintaining roads, moving supplies, etc… and were very rarely manning critical points at the front.
They're physically useless for assaults ofc but they should do ok for static defenses, rear security or pseudo-frontline jobs like drone piloting.
Forklift/dumptruck/supply truck driving is important too.
I heard it said that infantries job is just to hold the enemy in place for artillery.
I've heard it said the earth is flat. Coincidence?
I heard it said that I fuck ya mudda
the saying is
>the infantry's job is to be a spotter for the artillery
or something along those lines. I also forgot where I heard this.
and a butthole can be a pussy too
They can drive AFVs or man guns. Honestly if you have an old guy who isn’t mentally deficient, blind, or motor control deficient you can have him do some assault roles. He won’t be good with dismounting but if he’s manning an AFV as a crew member then he shouldn’t be dismounting in the first place.
That's pretty ageist of you
It can work. It was old men who threw back the Germans 16 times at Stonne.
?si=cerFwcRwB39E1FTS
The colonel was in Finances
The Commander in Industry
The captain was in insurance
And the lieutenant was a grocer
The Adjudant was bailiff for the Banque de France
The sergeant was a baker
The corporal was in the dark
And the second class was a pensioner!
And all that makes
Excellent French
excellent soldiers
Who march in step
They weren't used to it anymore
But it's like riding a bicycle, you can't forget it!
And all these guys
who for the most part
Have kids who have their university degrees
Yes, all these brave men
Have left quickly
To do as before
What they did as fathers for their sons
The colonel had albumin
The commander suffered from a large colon
The captain looked very bad
And the lieutenant had ganglia
The Adjudant suffered from renal colics
The sergeant had the atrophied polyp
The corporal has chronic coryza
And the second class of corns on the feet
And all that makes
Excellent French
excellent soldiers
Who march in step
Forgetting in this adventure
That they were soft, fragile and delicate
And all these guys
who for the most part
Took pills, drops and mixtures
Here they are, good sports
Just like at twenty
Where does this miracle come from?
But from wine and tobacco!
The colonel was from the Action Française
The commander was a moderate
The captain was for the diocese
And the lieutenant worked from the priest
the Adjudant was a staunch extremist
The Sergeant a convinced socialist
The corporal registered on all the lists
And the second class at PMU!
And all that makes
Excellent French
excellent soldiers
Who walk in step
Thinking that the Republic
It's still the best government out there
And all these guys
who for the most part
Were not of the same opinion in politics
They all agree
Whatever their fate
They all want now,
"Leave us alone once and for all!"
Difference being those old men were WW1 veterans.
I don’t think Ukraine’s old men are cut from the same cloth in that regard. Their young men will be though, that’s for sure.
Bruh, Ukraine’s old men grew up in the times of Soviet scarcity and Chernobyl. Sure they didn’t live through WW1 but they understand struggle and putting in work.
These are Young Boomer and Gen X Soviet Ukrainians, they're used to shitty conditions.
To add to this, some may even be Soviet-Afghan War veterans.
Btw there's no such thing as "canonical" US boomer in Ukraine. All older folks are usually super nice(unleaded gas supremacy btw)
Soviet boomers are different but they as a demographic and cultural block do exist in former combloc countries.
Demographically yes, but it's like american vs european football
I feel like we're just arguing semantics, point is the Soviet generation which are basically the boomers of Ukraine went through a lot including the 1990s Ukrainian economy.
I bet you all the 50-60 year olds have a low as fuck casualty rate.
Those wise ass bros can sense where the artillery will come from miles away and position themselves accordingly.
Probably also realize that logistics and artillery superiority is what wins wars while Zoomers go around LARPing as CoD characters and get blown up
The really dirty Old Guys don't need as much artillery.. We know missiles win fights with tanks and gunships. We know not to cluster together so artillery isn't as effective. We know every second we are looking for the nearest cover. We know if we are seen, we are fucked. So we understand the drone threat better than the kids do. I wouldn't go near a FEBA without some way to shit all over all frequencies if needed. I'm old, so I'm more about tricking the enemy than playing Rambo. I love making and employing booby traps. Did you know a porno mag in a warzone is some of the most effective bait for people? My favorite is booby trapped ammo mags. Flashlights work great as well. Poisoned water is fun as well. I've placed a mixture of sugar and peanut butter into places I knew snipers would try to use.. Lots of nasty things then take up residency in those positions. Professionals are predictable. They do what will work best. So the positions they'll attack from our how they'll defend is known. Did you know bald faced hornets all stay in their big paper nest at night? You simply put tape over the entrance at night and then move thd nest someplace you need it. A spring loaded sharp piece of metal can slice it open instantly.. Fun times... The yelling, desperate screaming...
Honestly, it would look a lot like how we train national guard or army reserves. Those guys probably usually shouldn't be in combat roles, but I'd wager they'd be great in logistics and all of the other support shit that needs to occur to keep it all running.
>Young people start wars, old people fight in them
If you are for whatever reason really desperate to use 60 year olds for basic infantry, you could load them up with tren, HGH, Boniva, etc to boost their physical ability. If you don't care about long term health effects you can go really nuts.
Strap bombs on them and send them on their way. I'm kind of surprised this isn't already the norm for cultures that employ suicide bombers. There's basically no downside. Your young men get to live out the rest of their lives and your old men get to go down swinging.
Everyone who rips on 50 year olds has soft hands.
50 year old blue collar lads are absolute units, sure they won’t run a marathon but they will jank a stuck valve open with pure grip strength and they will jank artillery shells like grocery bags.
If you have ever worked a construction site with old handymen you’d know this.
Just look at them, look at their guts, look at their arms, look at their tanned skin, they are strong.
Considering this is Ukraine, those are mostly farmers and farmhands.
They know the area, they can operate and maintain most vehicles and they have wisdom.
There is so much more to warfare than running and shooting, you FPS bros.
Also remember that those old farts literally birthed and built the sovereign nation they are now protecting from foreign domination, they are ultra motivated.
There’s a good reason why veterans are cherished in the field.
i don't get why people assume they'd be physically unfit
these are the people whose weekend hobby is splitting logs or hoeing in the sun for ten hours
they drive 30 year old shitboxes they maintain themselves
they know about construction, electric maintenance, they slaughter pigs so they aren't afraid of blood
they dig faster and get less exhausted than a 20-year old
they won't sprint but a rucksack march will be nothing to them
>they are ultra motivated
this is the only part i disagree on
the were young when the Ukraine was a high priority and privileged (relative to the rest) region of the USSR so they know firsthand that even fucking Communism was better than the 3rd world cleptocracy that came after
Total Boomer Conscription
>cut+paste their minds into 20yr old green clones
This is interesting.
Pros:
>Guys who are strong in their beliefs.
>Who know not to rush to their deaths.
>Take things a bit slower and plan it out a little better.
>Understand the importance of shutting up and listening.
>Can have 60+ years of life experience to fall back on and assist younger soldiers.
>They know what they're fighting for. They have families and grandchildren and the like.
>They can be stone cold when it comes to doing what has to be done and living with it for the rest of their days.
>They don't talk about their feelings, they don't cry and they don't complain about the food or gear or any of that other shit.
>Truck stalled out? Pop the hood, let me take a look. Vasili, go get my toolbox out of the back, I think I know what this is.
Cons:
>Teaching old dogs new tricks is supremely difficult.
>60 years of wear and tear is going to be a huge issue. A lot of rest breaks and so on and so forth.
>You can't just have them moving boxes around and digging trenches all day because they will inevitably start herniation disc's in their backs and that pretty much takes them all the way out of the fight.
>High blood pressure + heart pounding combat= cardiac arrest and strokes in the field.
>Eyesight not what it used to be.
>They will NOT take kindly to taking orders from 20 year Olds. 20 year olds are fucking gay and retarded and nobody knows it like them.
the cons are fucking easy to mitigate
1. Don't assign them to recon and long distance bullshit, you can have them fill 90% of roles and it won't hurt them. Make sure not to fuck it up.
This by itself means all the health issues mostly don't matter and combat won't be frontline insanity so they'll be ok.
2. Make sure to assign respectable commanders to them, not fucking zoomers.
If SHTF and they have to work under a zoomer they'll be ok, but make sure it's not "on purpose".
Rock solid Ensure, Cialis and Depends supply lines.
This.
An older guy that runs the warehouse at my work would come out and talk to us when we would take our stake bed down to get supplies.
He would have this "breakfast".
A few cigarretes and a bottle of ensure.
>Ukraine is letting old fucks die in war
>Ukraine is winning so much they have to draft the elderly
Show air defence*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~
>thirdie is such cattle he doesn't know the concept of volunteering
>concept of volunteering
Those old fucks should be in nursing home
>nursing home
Hardly a thing in slavlands. They don't look like they need medical attention, why would they be in a nursing home anyway?
He just woke up from the toilet, right?
It can get very hit there that actually is probably comfier than in clothing.
>Hardly a thing in slavlands
You're supposed to take care of your elders. Besides you can easily take care of yourself until you die, mostly. Americans sending 80 year olds to nursing homes is fucking sick, my aunt is 98 years old and she lives alone, do gardening. 80-90 year old man can easily take care of himself.
207 TDF (241 Brigade), special unit Дiди. A7376.
ctrl + f: bandera borscht sauce source
https://archive.is/7su22
What happens to Ucraniums if they are administered by Moscow instead of Kyiv?
Based on what happened in Luganda and Donbabwe since 2014, they'd get looted and left to rot.
Tell us who was shelling them.
>if you kill your enemy they win
nothing chamged eh
Initially russian armed forces from over the border, before they actually came over the border as was proven by photos and videos of equipment only in russian use.
What of it?
Why do have images of half naked men in leather on your computer, anon.
>boomer TDF soldiers with better gear than russian frontline troops
There wasn't a lot going on really before russia decided to mass suicide them.
Ironically, when warfare was almost entirely melee fighting, old veterans were much more effective because holding the line and keeping formation was what won battles and their greater experience and discipline would make all the difference. Alexander's Silver Shields were the best soldiers in the world until Antigonus cucked them and they were 60+ at that point.
Nowadays good eyesight, quick reactions, reduced prevalence of injury and short bursts of very intense activity are what makes an infantryman effective. There's a reason almost every military in the world has an upper age limit somewhere in the 30s for a regular solder.
One of the things I learned working agriculture and construction is that strong guys are still strong into their early 60s. It's crazy what 40 years of swinging hammers and digging holes will do to the body. No one escapes unscathed and they might have limited range of motion but raw muscle strength is impressive. I could easily see a 61 year old that has dedicated his life to combat being very effective against your average 20-30 year old.
Just train them in artillery fire support
Those positions have already been given to big norf men.
My grand-uncle is 60+. He joined 10th mountain assault when the war started and is still kicking around somewhere, his family gets comms with him about once a month or so.
That being said, he spent a significant portion of his younger years doing mercenary work in Africa and SA, on behalf of some prtugese qusi-govt interests. In fact he met his current wife in Portugal, she was a ukrainian emigree.
So I would imagine that a whole lot of old farts that signed up have some military experience under the belt. After all, there are tons of afghan vets in the country.
First. I demand two blonde uk women as payment. In advance, of course.
Train them to do administrative tasks, which frees up the younger admins so they can be sent up front.
Use them to boost morale by regailing the youth with tales of their time in Afghanistan.
I'd probably get some sports physicians to develop a PT routine specifically for old people that they can start practicing at home. The military training they receive would be narrowed in scope to only encompass the specific task they'd be performing as expecting them to be competent generalists might be unrealistic. People in their 50s can usually move okay if they haven't fucked their joints up too badly when young, so I could see them in some infantry roles. Besides, most trench assaults don't seem to require that you be particularly fast on your feet. Mine clearing might also be a viable option. They might make it as tankers, but they probably won't make it out if the tank gets hit and brews up.
>Ukraine
>Formerly part of USSR
>Soviet Afghan War fought between 1979 and 1989
These guys are probably veterans of the Soviet Afghan War. They are probably more experiencef and brutal than the comp-sci and barrista millenials.
Jesus, it's really until the last hohol.
bump
As opposed to the Wagner cemetery that will just be paved over.
With the losses being 3 times worse for Russia imagine how grim it is for them. 300k obituaries and counting on Russian social media.
well Russia doesn't bother retrieving their dead most of the time and when they do they just often bury them in mass graves on Ukrainian soil with 0 care for IDing remains. Imagine how big the Ossuary will be.
No grave no Lada comrade.
That's a lot of cat chow
They don't give a shit about their war dead. They think it's somehow a bad thing for Ukraine to honor their own dead. Russians are lucky to get a mud mound.
Russians are lucky if they don't get their grave sites turned into a walmart parking lot
>being 3 times worse for Russia
Lmao
>exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.
Oh no, anyway
You
See this
This is what waiting for you.
I want you fucking dead. Take your passive aggressive terrorism and fucking die
Tell the police. Let's just all do it
>passive aggressive terrorism
The US is still using Putple Hearts from WW2. Doing stuff in bulk doesn't mean a damn thing vatnik.
What's next, gonna start posting Zoka?
i remember this interview after the Kharkov offensive where this boomer tank commander described being given orders by a zoomer CO using drones
he reflected on how much was has changed
coolest grandpa ever regardless
I would give the Ukrainians 60 year olds and most of the world's 60 Yesr olds the location of every Z troll and let them fucking killing them brutally.
I'd let it happen in America. Kill the fucking terrorist. I don't care they are "Americans, "
They stopped being Americans when they started spreading terrorist propaganda for fun
Fucking Kill them all
This Trump apathy not my problem lol xd bullshit In America coming from trolls is terrorism.
So fucking kill them
They show a Bradley blowing up
(How's that counter offensive hound xd)
Fucking have them put to death
Retards need to die for saying dumb shit
Or everyone is saying dum shit
And Boom humanity won't rretarded again
Time for a 4 the dark age. I don't want that in my life time. So kill all ziggers. Everywhere in the world. Hunt them like Nazis for decades
Kill them all. It will never end otherwise.
>tfw it has come to the triarii
Let the old geezers manage regional support and security. They're not going to be front line soldiers but their effort will allow younger soldiers to be at the front instead. The swedes and finns have a very interesting concept of a total defense where everyone does their part to contribute even as civilians. That allows the nation to prioritize their resources where they are needed without having to micromanage regions.
>They're not going to be front line soldiers
I think they could do fine as the first wave of an assault. Most of it seems to involve walking out the back of an apc and methodically walking towards/through the enemy trench while suppressing. I haven't seen that much running involved in recent assaults.
While I admittedly haven't done that, it's probably more exhausting than it looks. Clausewitz stated everything in war is very simple, but the simplest thing is difficult. The difficulties accumulate and end by producing a kind of friction that is inconceivable unless one has experienced war.
Give them less armor and maybe have them shoot .22wmr instead. Besides old guys can carry stuff ok, it's just the sprinting that's hard for them.
Everything is possible with enough HGH and TRT.
Not all 60 year olds are the same. If you took care of your body through your life, you could probably shit on 20-30 year old pencil necks. My old man was a pro athlete when he was young and at 55 when invited to soccer games, all the teams wanted him. At 60 he played tennis and fuckimg hit the ball hard. Gave very fit 40 year olds a sweat. When he was 65-70 he did slow down, but was good for most tasks. Drove 9 hours straight at 68. RIP pa, cancer is a bitch