How well would've Finland fared against Russia had it been the target of the 2022 invasion? After all Finland has one tenth of the Ukrainian population but higher GDP and more technologically advanced armed forces.
How well would've Finland fared against Russia had it been the target of the 2022 invasion?
Well, entire Finnish military doctrine is focused on stopping russian invasion.
It's focused on making a Russian invasion too costly to maintain because of the monetary and humanitarian costs
In light of the Russian public's absolute disregard for their losses that plan was doomed from the start
What said.
Finland always functioned on the idea of a credible deterrence. If Russia was dedicated (or apathetic) they could just bleed on Finland until Finland ran out of ways to kill.
I never really understood why Finland didn't seek to join NATO soon after the Soviet Union fell and they were obviously in no position to invade anyone
This very fatalistic strategy is nowhere near as compelling as just being impossible to attack without bringing the strongest alliance in history into the fight
Finland kinda hoped that the new Russian Federation would grow to be a real country with reasonable foreign policies.
They have to live next to Russia anyways, so it doesn't harm to have friendly (or at least decent) diplomatic relations to your neighbour.
When Russia started the Ukrainian war, the last shreds of any illusions that Russia might still one day be a reasonable adult-like country flew out of the window. It was a stright up orkish invasion for destruction of neighbouring country and their culture. You can not expect reasonable diplomacy from such nations.
your neighbour might be an asshole, but you still try to be civil about it. But if you realize that he actually IS an axe-murdering psychopath, you get yourself some protection. And preferrably some reliable allies.
>This very fatalistic strategy is nowhere near as compelling as just being impossible to attack without bringing the strongest alliance in history into the fight
"fatalistic resignation" is what Russia wishes countries around it assumed because if they really found out how a war would turn out you'd get Ukraine ie a clusterfuck so catastrophic no one would take them seriously from there on out. They're always doing that wizard of Oz shit trying to to come off as too strong to fail or going "WELL YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE ANYWAY BECAUSE WE'RE CRAZY AND WILLING TO DIE".
because its not 1930s anymore. this country is inhabited by idiots and cowards
Long political legacy of Finlandization that lives to this day and naivety
I don't think it was the wrong call to make because deterrence worked fine for Finland. Plus there was a 25-30 year period of trade that got cut short only because of sanctions, not because of Russian aggression on Finland.
Nato was created for the USSR and it no longer was an entity
Because there was every indication that the Bear was dead and ready to become a responsible world partner.
It was almost considered inevitable that the Russians would stay committed to democracy and the PRC would democratize. That's what Bush meant when he gave the New World Order speech. We had a shot at world peace and the 90s was full of that optimism.
Communist moles in the social democratic party made sure no anti-russian policy went through in the government.
Because we've still got zero real issues with them. Joining NATO just because is like the French joining the Brits before 1939, and then surrendering and being cool with the armistice because they really didnt have any real beef with Germany.
>Because we've still got zero real issues with them
Masks are off as Niinistö said
On the other hand it would be impossible to hide the war from "real" Russians due to proximity of St. Petersburg. All the barriertroops would hang around the city commiting crimes and the harbour would burn.
This. Ukraine has been preparing for a Russian invasion for about 5 years. Finland has been preparing for 50. They would have stacked bodies all the way to Hellsinki.
Actually a good point. Same with Sweden (in concept), they assume that the enemy isn't retarded and insane. Maybe we should spend some more money on intel about Russia before we start planing.
Which turns out to have been a mistake, since it leaves everything after they push the russians back to the border as a matter of improvisation.
Anon that called a victory
I want to say poorly - Ukraine showed some reluctance to accept the facts on the ground, and paid for it in the early stages of the war, but at least the eastern parts were already fortified. Finland is so full of people hooked on Russian money and retarded peaceniks, they could have invaded in February and we would still only probably have adequate preparations by March
Not true, Ivanovich.
We Finns have been itching to BTFO Ruskie fucks once more since 1945, and Ukrainians crotch-blasted Zoombies already day-1. Partially THANKS TO the Finnish training.
Unlike Ukraine, Finland's terrain is very uneven, there's tons of woodland and masses of water everywhere, and no road is straight as an arrow for more than a km at best.
Every bridge would've been blown up, every road boobytrapped the very minute the habbening would've started. There'd be insane amounts of arty and mortar fire in the air, globbering the Eastern front.
Not to mention neither the Scandinavians nor the Baltics / Estonians would've stood still and silent had Pootin's tanks started rolling across the border, Finland's been part of the JEF for a while now, and EU itself has poor but still present defensive pacts.
When I had to suffer in Rovajärvi for 2 weeks in winter, every single day was cloudy with total of 30 minutes of sunlight during those 2 weeks. Not a single time did I get to see aurora. I felt scammed.
It's based on the "weather" on the Sun. Some times it is more stormy, sometimes not. I only saw the northern lights a few times dimly a few years ago in North Sweden.
Whether or not Finland happens to be in NATO or has treaties with its neighbors or whatever, Western support would be immediate and drastic compared to what Ukraine got early in the conflict. The story of fierce Finnish resistance against the soviets is the kind of underdog story that fans the flames of righteous indignation of the Western mind.
Ruining perfect independent defence force for sake of giving money useless immigration. Nato is pure cope and continues to globalize finland. Say hello to your new temmates named jamal, ahmed, pojeet, john and abdumillah
Even the chinese like this underdog story
>temmates named jamal, ahmed, pojeet, john and abdumillah
Hello, pidor.
where did all of those black dudes come from?
Good day, Boris
Im urjo from helsinki oblast and i support this claim
>Finland is so full of people hooked on Russian money and retarded peaceniks
have you met a native Finn? half of their identity is hating Russia so much they'd go to war with them
Many of us have to travel to Ukraine to finally start enjoying life.
The Finnish terrain is significantly more challenging than the Ukrainian one and readiness would have likely been higher on day 1.
The amount of east-west roads crossing the border is tiny, and east-west infrastructure north of the isthmus is basically nonexistent. Imagine how well Russia's logistics would do in such an environment when they are already road- and rail-bound in Ukraine, but this time if a road is destroyed you can't just go around because it's just endless forest next to it.
>Russia takes Joensuu, Lappeenranta and Utsjoki
>offensive totally stalls along the Kouvola-Kotka axis
>Lappeenranta
How tf would they take utsjoki
Russians wouldn't be able to reach even Hamina, the new highway would give finnish tanks like 5km of open range, where russian armor would have no cover from anything. Everything east of Hamina is a killzone, 20km long killzone.
Finland has only a tiny fraction of Ukraine's population. Russia would have taken much higher casualty ratios but with only Finnish manpower they wouldn't last a full year. The lack of a cold winter also would have been a huge issue if they made it that far.
Ukraine is simply too large for Russia to defeat with the "we have more men" strategy. Works well in Georgia and Chechnya but not Ukraine.
i want a finnish twink bf to larp in the woods with
I'm sorry but that's a girl (female).
🙁 i want a girl(boy)friend
idk
Why are the manliest boards the gayest on the site
Once you reach a certain amount of manliness your Overton window shifts and women become too faggy.
There's nothing more manly than fucking another man.
okay sergei
>manliest boards
The only manly boards are PrepHole and PrepHole
PrepHole is manly but only because it's boomer personified
PrepHole is full of fucking idiots that wouldnt know how to use a hammer. Seriously they make daily threads asking how to do the make the dumbest shit that a 3rd worlder does in an hour.
>shit that a 3rd worlder does in an hour
Usually because they had to learn how to do the stuff themselves. How many city-dwelling 1st-worlders do DIY stuff?
1st worlders just buy nice shit to begin with. You have to be 3rd worlder levels of poor to actually do DIY stuff. The only cool diy threads are the anons that post their fucked up projects for a laugh.
>You have to be 3rd worlder levels of poor to actually do DIY stuff.
Nah, I like DIY as it's fun to make stuff yourself. Buying something when you can make it yourself is usually never the best choice, be it food or furniture
Idk, but /lgbt/ is pretty manly (whether they like it or not)
/lgbt/ is arguably the most homophobic board on the site, they take pride in being straight trannies. When they post pictures they’re all waifish little creatures rather than the chads in dresses you’d expect.
And these same waifish little creatures complain about how they "are ugly and will never pass"
once you hit level 2147483647 of manliness the counter goes back to 0 and thus gay.
Just like Pac(k dat twink bussy)-Man!
>still using a 32 bit gay system
It's (hopefully) sarcasm you autist
This shits been on the Chan's for a decade.
>It's (hopefully) sarcasm you autist
you wish
Dunno man, just kinda happens.
Well I'm here and I regularly browse /lgbt/, so fair
garden gnomes
they aren’t. most of the gays on here are skinnyfat larpers, same reason there’s a ton of homos and trannies on /v/
>How dare these gays jokingly play gay chicken
>In my country you get fucked in the ass by straight men more powerful than you and you keep shut about it.
>why are men who are attracted to men attracted to manly things?
I 'unno
fucking tom from Finland is the greatest
His clothed pinups are iconic but his porn is the least sexy thing I've seen in my life
I can thank the mulldog for keeping me informed about this depravity
Because a room full of people who are manly men, and perpetuate how manly they are, are ripe for subversion, jokes, and the inevitable effects of entropy and reversion to the mean. If you have ever been apart of a group like that you get tired real fast and the trickster among them meditates on society and shares a joke making fun of themselves which are jokes that last.
Tons of fags migrated February of last year.
Endless convoys stuck on highways inside forests, if the initial zerg rush and naval landings fail then it would have bogged down like in Ukraine, except the terrain is even less traversable (woodlands). Logistics would be interesting since NATO supplies to finland would have to flow through Turku or Vaasa ports, or by road through northern Sweden which is a much worse route. On the Russian side the railroad hub in St. Petersburg is well within strike range as well.
Alone? Lost in 3 days unironically.
With NATO intervention? Russians stuck for 400 days on the highway to hell.
Would there be NATO intervention in 2022?
Probably misrepresenting some statements about Sweden and Åland
>Would there be NATO intervention in 2022?
Finland is not part of the NATO, so there is uncertainty with intervention but most probably NATO would.
Finland is now part of NATO.
You're forgetting Finland has had European Union security article for ages, which is worded:
>[Article 42.7 of the Treaty on European Union:]
>"If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States."
Finally someone says it. I mean, even without the actual EU common defense treaty, it would be quite a fucking big deal that a member state (which has shared supranational foreign policy, a shared currency, open internal borders, supranational agencies spread across all member states, common legislation and regulation, etc. etc. ad nauseam) would be attacked. A far bigger deal than Ukraine, and look where that comparative little has bought them! A country in continental periphery, with no direct bonds to the Union whatsoever!
(me)
>look where
look what*
We have to assume that they get the same time to prepare as Ukraine so at least a year of CIA glow worms telling everyone exactly when and what is going to happen, in greater detail than even the monke of kreml knew.
Given the limited numbers of suitable points to cross the border, we would most likely see the same type of 40km traffic jam except this time there would be ample of GLMRS and ATACMs in place to Hispanice things up.
Probably vatnik casualties in the thousands during the first 24hrs.
Since Sweden and Finland got some sort of defense pact, F-18s and Gripens flying together.
The fighter jet shitposting would be off the charts as a result.
>Since Sweden and Finland got some sort of defense pact, F-18s and Gripens flying together.
We don't, not sure why people think this
A Swedish general literally blurted out couple months ago how Finland and Sweden have secret plans for Swedish mechanized forces being sent to Finland to aid in case of invasion
Really?
>Several Nordic countries have moved to deepen cooperation among their respective air forces to bolster the region’s defenses.
>The primary aim of the joint declaration is to strengthen air force cooperation between the four Nordic states, precipitating concrete joint initiatives to develop a strong regional air defense.
>“There is obvious interest in a regional initiative for a joint air command on NATO’s northern flank. We know the conditions in the High North well, and we have a lot to learn from each other. With a total of almost 250 modern combat aircraft, this will be a large combat force that must be coordinated,”
https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/03/24/nordic-countries-move-toward-linking-their-air-forces-250-planes/
That is not a defensive pact.
>Large, coordinated combat force
>Concrete joint initiatives
>Strong regional air defence
>Joint air command
>Among Nordic countries that are all either current or imminent NATO members covered by article 5
And you think this won't mean Gripens flying with F-35s because...?
hnnnngggg I know we have left the EU but please let us help remove borscht
Sweden and Finland cooperate on many levels militarily:
SigInt
This includes local and orbit
Air defence
Joint exercises
Joint mine-laying strategy and exchange program
Archipelago and naval robot collaboration.
That's just some of it that the public are allowed to know about.
Finland's entire history has been the slaves of Swedechads. They didn't even escape prehistory until the 1300s.
And Finns are still forced to learn Swedish.
taisin päästä ekalla yrityksellä läpi arvosanalla 2 kandin tokana vuonna, oli aika kauheeta mut enemmän siin mieles et se oli pakko tehdä kuin sisällön vaikeudesta
Tein etänä toisella näytöllä Google translate auki 100% ajasta
[Pellenaama]
Korona-aika? Ite tein sen just koronan alkamista edeltävänä syksynä, muistaakseni oli läsnäolopakko niin kuin kaikilla kielikursseilla.
Is there a more charming yet completely autistic looking language?
I'm fascinated by it. This is probably because I don't know the language, but I find it pleasing how well it seems to flow when spoken.
6 years of learning and rest of my life forgetting, and i have a swedish surname
Not anymore.
huge misrepresentation
finns weren't segregated or maltreated, finland was just sweden with a funny language. swedish was the language of high culture. its like calling the bretons slaves to the french or some shit
Just like britards were first slaves of anglosaxons, then the french, fintards were slaves of swedes, then the russians.
Now both belong to the same braindead union of söy
Well, invading third-world tier Ukraine turned into a complete circus so you can only imagine how funny things would get as Russians try their luck in a country riddled with swamps and lakes and a somewhat competent military. And the winter is way colder. Suffice to say, with the implications modern warfare in mind, it would make their previous two attempts look like a walk in the park.
We would see a lot more mobik popsicles that's for sure
I wonder what are the operational implications of literally freezing your dick off by taking it out to rape a conscript
About as well as in Winter War.
Overwhelming military performance but buried under the sheer size of russian army. It's been mostly ignored through this war, but one reason why russia wasn't been able to quickly knock out Ukraine is because Ukraine is actually a really big country that been able to simply soak up a lot of damage from all the shit russia threw at them.
I would dare say it would have had gone worse than winter war, for Russians.
During winter war, Finland had virtually nothing on the tank side and most planes were some pre-war biplanes and shit.
Compare that to modern Leopard 2 A4s and F/A-18 Hornets, Russian army would have melted in a matter of months and China probably would have invaded Russia, seeing it as weak as fuck.
>Leopard 2 A4s
A4's are in reserve, active leos are A6's. Not that it would change the outcome.
They would've won just like in the Winter War.
Finland lost both wars anon. In the winter war it was the threat of foreign intervention that forced Stalin to seek peace. In the continuation it was the overwhelming American sympathy towards the Finnish cause despite them fighting alongside the Germans. A lot of misguided Finns give shit to the anglos but in reality they had far more to do with Finnish independence than Germany or Hitler
t. Finn
Finnish military has more capable navy and airforce than Ukraine, but the land assets are not that good really. Less mechanized troops, no long range AA and most infantry relying on sosialized civilian vehicles. Most finnish brigades are formed on the infantry brigade 1980 standard wich means infantry troops towed by tractors, AA consisting of ZU-23-2 and anti tank armed with old heavy recoilles rifles and M72s. Most of the modern force is light infantry on machine gun armed APC’s. There is only 200 IFVs and 200 leopards in finnish army.
There is lot of airtillery, but it is mostly old soviet with low ranges. There is good amount of MLRS but not good set of ammunition types.
The lack of mechanized troops is hedged by the heavily forrested and sparsely roaded territory with large bodies of water limiting the possible routes for attack. On the other hand Finland is like an island for foreigen supply so reveiving help would be harder than it is for Ukraine.
Finland could stand max 1.5 years of russian agression. The attack could only be done among the coast towards Helsinki which would limit Russian possibilities for bad planning. Defenses would eventualy collapse under consentrated mechanized attacks and Russians would eventualy reach Helsinki with very high casualities.
The only things necessary to limiting Russian success in Finland is the ability to deny them their current missile spam, which can easily be handled with donated AA. Then just a few of the superior western MLRS or SPAGs would both outrange and outprecision Russian equipment, and since the forested roads would mean you need precision to hit anything important whilst limiting the amount of shit fielded the Russian artillery spam would be even less succesful than in Ukraine.
Then drop in the cruise missiles and gripens w/ meteors and Russia can't really do much. Russia is lucky Finland doesn't already have F35s to decapitate their inland railway and AA.
If the Russians ever push too far, just motti, clog up the road to sweep them and then sweep in before they can launch a counterassault in tandem.
And then sweep in with a counterassault in tandem*
Or tldr concentrated quality>quantity is very important in Finland and Russia straight up is not geared for a fight like that because their equipment sucks
I mostly agree with these points but they do require some elaboration. The Finnish artillery situation has long been recognized having a lot of obsolete stuff so there is a push to buy more and more stuff like K9 thunders and highly mobile mortar platforms because the dense foliage offsets the range disadvantage to a surprisingly large degree. The Finnish AA is slowly being upgraded with systems like NASAMS and David's sling but the reality is that if Russia really was all in they could overwhelm the defenses albeit at great cost. The Finnish SHORAD from systems like ASRAD-R and Crotale are sufficient against attack helicopters and low flying multirole fighters. The level of mechanization for offensive elements is somewhat lacking but it is also a necessity due to priorities. Mechanized forces are severely limited in Finland as to the routes they can take and light infantry can cause disproportionate losses with mines and AT weaponry simply because mechnized forces can't really chase after them if they just retreat into the dense woods after an ambush. You wouldn't get many chances for the kind of attritional warfare that you see in Ukraine. Unlike in Ukraine as well just about all key facilities are either underground or hardened with concrete so taking out stuff like ammo dumps and C2 sites would be exceptionally difficult for Russia.
It'd probably turn into Sweden/Finland vs Russia. Both can receive much more aid than Ukraine due to compatibility with NATO shit and trustworthyness
The environment sucks ass to fight in too, so what it ends up with is that Russia ends up clogged in some forested road with their railway and depos constantly missiled to shit.
Possibly.
Also, if the russian baltic fleet is crambled for an invasion, NATO nations are likely to make things annoying for them, considering how thin the corridoors can be.
Lets see...
>very limited number of roads in the east west direction
>army geared to a full intensity conflict, AT weapons out of the ass, second largest artillery in Yurop after the Russians
>doctrine geared specifically to exploit Russian weaknesses and to deny their advantages
You would have to advance around 300 km tied to a single road, every bridge on the way is blown, chock full of mines, trees toppled on to the roads. All your supplies will also come through this. All this while being harassed trough the whole lenght of your advance by fucking battalion sized dispersed jager elements armed to the teeth, with ridiculous amounts of arty support. You don't have air superiority as the Finns actually have a techincally superior airforce and even if you did it would do you no good because the entire country is covered in trees, everything is dispersed to an autistic degree and behind every tree top is a Stinger or a ZU-23-2. And finally after fighting your way through the countryside and not getting any supplies through you'll be engaged by the mechanized forces with Leopard 2A6s and CV90s. The first moment that you get out of the deep Karelian forest your tanks get annihilated with Spikes, TOWns, NLAWS, BONUS-155mm smart rounds and all the light at-rockets that infrantry carries.
Oh, and your headquaters, fuel&ammunition depots, railway bridges and supply centers got hit with newest US cruise missiles that Finland has. And even if you manage take some ground, you literally have to deal with Vietnam 2.0, Deep Forest-edition. IEDs, high-calibre scoped rifles and well motivated troops.
This. Anyone who says Russia could win if they just kept going regardless of casualties is retarded.
A year in they would have no fucking vehicles left and their airforce would be even more fucked than it is over Ukrainian skies.
I feel like modern Russia could just bring down 400x400km of forest tbh, also it's not as advantageous as it one was thanks to thermals if they theoretically invested in them
Anon have you followed the fucking war they have been fighting for the last year or so?
>ywn see enraged Finns who just want to sauna and drink vodka in peace commit mass murder of vatmoron subhumans
Ukraine has been fun but I can't help but feel slightly cheated.
Well, to be honest, Russia would like start a massive high alt bombing campaign that Finland would not be able to do much about. The only reason this is not part of their strategy for Ukraine is because they don't want to admit they are at war.
You know that FAF F/A-18s with AMRAAMs exist? And nordic air command? If puccia were to attack against finns, they would invent new names for st petersburg right now
St. Persereikä shall be called Nevanlinna, like it was way way back ago.
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevanlinna
Russia would lose. Badly.
Finland is in the EU and they have a common defense pact. It might take a few days of realization this shit is really happening before you have troops from the rest of the countries in Finland, and this is excluding the material aid they'd receive that would make Ukraine look like a joke.
If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States.
The greatest problem for Finland would be the relatively small amount of manpower and lack of depth, but on the other hand the terrain is a bitch to attack through and if Russians ended up clooging up in a clownvoy like they did in Ukraine, they’d get obliterated there. Also, because Finland is closer to west politically than Ukraine, the aid in case of invasion would be on completely other level, and while Finland is a ”island” logistically, good luck stopping supplies coming from Swedish border.
Can’t imagine that it would end well for Russians.
Eh, most of Ukrainian aid has been shipped through baltic sea to Poland and from there forward anyway.
Shipping directly to Finland should be even easier than that unless Russia can commit to sinking american boats in Baltic Sea.
based poster.
Sain vitosen. En osaa sanaakaan.
>There would be a machine gun nest there. Good job trying to cross the lake, vatnik. Its not a potato field.
Nevertheless, NATO was big mistake. The people who most eagerest wanted into NATO was responsible for the downgrade of Finnish independent defense system.
We cant even buy cheap russian military gear anymore. They sold it to us, why not. There was nothing between us.
Nato is more evil than russia.
>imagine being finish and buying Russian gear
Forget monkey models, you better check if that shit is rigged to explode.
It never did. Its like it just works and is built to last.
have a nice day vatmoron
>he hasnt shot with 12.7 itkk 96
Kys zoomer
Oli kyllä hauskaa hommaa.
Its like the halo warthog with a finnish twist
There was nothing between Finland and the Soviet Union because the Soviet Union straight up bought politicians and influenced political decisions. Finlandization ran pretty fucking deep. Today is one of the few moments in our history that we are actually independent and free. Traitors to the country like Tuomioja, Halonen, Lipponen and so on are just Russian fifth columnists. Fuck Russia and most of all fuck the traitors who want to sell us out to the east.
>There was nothing between Finland and the Soviet Union
Except a fucking world war and years of finlandization and a huge cuck(konen) president.
The era with NO FINLANDIZATION was 1991-1999 with presidental russia. The too much leaning on west with EU and NATO was a mistake.
I do agree that Kekkonen was definitely just a Russian puppet hungry for power. Finland without EU or NATO just gets pushed around by Russia. Finland isn't like Switzerland that has infinite money and mountains and relatively rational neighbors. If Finland has no allies and is weak Finland ceases to exist because the Russian Tsar decides that the border ought to stretch out to Sweden regardless of how many people need to die. The EU and NATO have their issues but there is no other alternative for a country like Finland.
>Finland without EU or NATO just gets pushed around by Russia
This is what the EU high salary WEF politicians want you to believe (Niinistö, Halla-aho, Marin...)
Its wondorous that you have to be pushed by NATO&EU in order to not to be pushed by Russia. Its like our politicians and people lack the willpower to be not pushed around.
Nice try Pjotr!
Well, I guess we could build nukes and be our own little north korea of the north to not get pushed around then
kirjotas toi seuraavaks suomeks ja sit vielä toiseen kertaan vaikka stadin slangilla koska translate ei sitä hallitse
Ngl, I'd fuck a big fat Finnish girl senseless. Like, a fatness that Brosnan could never hope to achieve. I'd fuck that behemoth blond Finngolian knowing full well Russia's inevitable return to Congo-tier dilapidation could be viewed online in real-time, all while I was getting my porpoise pumped.
go back to russia
>We cant even buy cheap russian military gear anymore
It's cheap because it's a cold war remnant that barely work. Russian didn't even make most of their weapons, Ukraine did.
Meanwhile the "T-14 Armata" is using an old German design they looted during WWII.
>Nato is more evil than russia.
How can "Defending your friends, if you can" be more evil than "Invading and pillaging a sovereign country"?
Reminder Nato is just a defense agreement which is win-win for everyone except the idiot who planned to invade another country.
Heavy mover here, y'all are missing the point. Russia doesn't have adequate infrastructure to concentrate a superior force onto the border, if they tried putting a breakthrough force into the area, they'd run headfirst into the limit of the region's logistics capacity. And that's before the finns start striking bridges in the area.
Depending on how you count them, there are 4-6 rail lines the russians can use to roll supplies to the area. Turnaround would be a headache by itself, but not insurmountable. Facilities for offloading supplies are limited and would create a bottleneck, however, that's not their main problem. You can't risk rolling trains into a zone of active hostilities, so the railhead has to be located somewhere sufficiently far behind the lines. From there onwards, it's road traffic only - trucks of varying sizes.
And there's a limit to how much road traffic a roadway can support. When you begin to approach the limit, you'll see a phenomenon called congestion - the speed at which traffic can flow through drops rapidly. Additionally small disruptions (such as vehicles breaking down, blown tires, etc.) happen all the time in the real world, and these have ripple effects on the flow of traffic.
If you asked me, could I sustain an invasion force of 200-250k men in the area, I'd say yeah, in ideal conditions I could. However, they'd have to be evenly spread according to capacity of the logistical nodes in the area, within relatively short (low tens of miles) distances from the railheads. This is obviously not okay from a strategic POV as the force needs to be concentrated for breakthrough on the half dozen usable roads in the south.
Then, the actual hostilities begin and the enemy now starts launching missile strikes at my bridges, railroads, crossovers. My ability to move ammunition, fuel and food is being constrained at inconvenient, unpredictable times and places. This throws my scheduling out the window, and causes congestion in places where I don't expect it. The enemy further disrupts my efforts to reorganize by striking at the vehicles stuck waiting in line where these new chokepoints have formed.
Redundancy is an essential component of logistics. There's always some percentage lost to attrition, misrouting, butter bars failing land nav. The limited infrastructure in the border region doesn't leave enough room to maneuver around blockages.
In a couple of weeks, units in the front will run out of fuel, then ammo, then literally begin to starve.
If you asked me, how would a sane nation with a competent military approach this problem? I'd tell you, build more roads. Send in the engineers and put down 2000-3000 miles of new dirt road, crossing between the old roads as well as running in parallel. Build temporary bridges, prep sites for pontoon brigdges, even good old fashioned fords that larger vehicles can navigate. But all of this will take time, and the enemy will take notice.
My problems don't stop at the border, of course. If by some miracle the invasion force achieves a breakthrough and reaches the denser road network further southwest, I am still limited by the chokepoints outlined in the previous posts. And now I have the heavily dispersed enemy troops gunning for my vulnerable transports.
Remember my point about building roads? The number of roads on the other side of the border is also too low for my needs. I will need to somehow expand the road network on the enemy side of the border to create sufficient redundancy to maneuver around blockages created by enemy action. And of course, the enemy will be looking to disrupt my efforts at every turn. There won't be many engineers around to do the work either, as they'll be urgently needed closer to the front to keep the vanguard from being bogged down by obstacles and minefields.
Restoring the railroad connections across the border could alleviate the pain somewhat, but only if I can by some miracle keep them operational with missiles raining down and enemy specops slipping demolition charges between the rails. I'd sooner expect cows to fly.
If I fail, the force I'm supporting will run out of ammo. They might be able to loot fuel from stations and storage in captured areas, but it's a drop in an ocean. They can likely do the same with food long enough to run out of everything else, so at least they'll be well fed when they get overrun.
Since Finland is part of EU, how much more assistance would Finland have received than Ukraine assuming that they didn't get steamrolled in few weeks or months.
Russia is failing to supply its army in a region made of railways.
How do you think they would do in a country made of snowy forêts, swamps and lakes ?
>How do you think they would do in a country made of snowy forêts, swamps and lakes ?
If this game is any indication, they'll use a full tanker just crossing 1km.
Are Finnish women attractive.
They're okay. I'm sure you could find better looking women elsewhere but they are mostly passable.
What about Icelandic gals?
They are better
Women are the biggest sluts and men are the biggest autists. Both scientifically proven facts.
Finland has a lot of modern US made equipment.
>why Finland didn't seek to join NATO
Many politicians had, and still have, deep relations with Russians. For example, our former PM was just like Gerhard Schröder in Germany, he was lobbing for Nord Stream pipes and getting all that nice Russian money while doing it. Our former president Halonen has also most likely been compromised by her connections to the former Communist Block and Soviet Union/Russia.
Lustration was never carried out in Finland like it was carried out in other Eastern European countries. I can't fucking wait to for those collaborationist bitches to be flushed out and shamed. Now there's definitely a need and an opportunity to do just that.
>I can't fucking wait to for those collaborationist bitches to be flushed out and shamed.
That already happened last spring, and it was incredibly satisfying. My favorite was watching Väyrynen spout his inane and outdated bullshit and become even more irrelevant than before.
>That already happened last spring
A proper lustration would be much bigger than Väyrynen. We're talking about Halonen, Supo (Finnish CIA), Tiitinen list, etc. Every stone must be turned and every connection must be investigated to truly understand some of the choices our politicians have made in the past when it comes Russia, Nato and so on.
I mean just arrest the past Fortum CEO's and you've got a good portion of them already.
Corruption, especially simping for foreign interests, is an inherent systemic fault in a democracy because democracy is a form of committee rule, and committees are for separating power and responsibility. The very same people who simped for soviets will simp for NATO because that is where they get their post career money from.
What I've seen in the Ukraine war, the only thing russians have been even slightly successful at is their missile and drone spamming. Their problem is that they only seem to target civilian structures. Finland would never cave to terror attacks like that. They tried it with Helsinki in the cold war and it didn't break the morals. The biggest threat Russia would come against is the terrain. It would completely fuck over any kind of quick mechanized assault. We may not have the capabilities for offense, but our defense is pretty solid. Though I hope they don't try because I'd rather have a cozy life than be forced to shit in the forest for a year.
It'd be miserable for the finns since they only have a few cities unlike ukraine who has a population of like 40 million. Now imagine all those missiles russia lobs at ukraine but concentrated at helsinki and turku.
Fuck that shit, just thinking about it makes me angry i hate russia so god damn much, it is horrible with war but living UNDER russia is far worse.
How many bomb shelters does Ukraine have? Because we have lots. The fucking public pool is underground and designated as a bomb shelter.
Finland does not exist
reddit meme
>How well would've Finland fared against Russia had it been the target of the 2022 invasion?
When the Soviet Union invaded Finland, they had literally every advantage over Finland. Men? Experience? Tanks? Planes? Yep. They even had some fifth columnist commie vermin. They lost over a half a million men and they lost the war. (Yes they did - the Soviet goal was always going to be either de jure or de facto annexation, and the corridor of land they demanded was a pretext they were forced to accept after a crushing defeat.)
Modern Finland has the largest artillery collection in Europe, all of it better and newer than Russian moron shit. Russian morons can no longer hide behind Belorussians and Ukrainians to do all the hard work. Their planes are dog shit and their pilots (what few they have) are even worse. Meanwhile, Finland operates modern western kit. To include the F-35, meaning Finland could easily count on allies flying under 'false flag' units to further bolster their numbers without Russia being able to prove it. Finnish terrain has gotten harder to invade, not easier, because they have learned from the decades they have spent preparing for Russian morons to show their fundamental genetic character once again. So yes, Russia loses - badly, and quickly. Ironically they might end up losing less Russian morons than they have in Ukraine, because the idea of them being able to make serious gains into Finland is literally laughable.
>and the corridor of land they demanded was a pretext they were forced to accept after a crushing defeat.)
Haha and now as punishment you will be forced to take this strip of land!
My buddy that served in the first jäger company said they'd be in Moscow in a few months. If the Ukrainians can stop the Russians and humiliate them then a proper first world nation with a professional military would destroy Russia.
The only thing that should be going to Moscow is several nuclear missiles.
Moderates like you make me sick.
>entire country is basically one massive pre-sighted artillery grid
>second largest artillery force in Europe
>terrain that is the exact opposite of the kind that russian doctrine depends on
>terrain is thick forest, lakes, rivers, bogs and MORE FUCKING LAKES
>every road and bridge will be mined
>Professional and highly trained army backed up by a relatively large conscript base
>modern airforce
>entire purpose of the military for the last 80 years is to specifically fuck over any attempt at russian invasion
>Every major city is basically one massive bunker complex
>west would flip it's shit and flood the country with weapons the second Russia looks at them funny
Gee, how do you think it would go?
is thick forest, lakes, rivers, bogs and MORE FUCKING LAKES
That's an understatement.
This looks like hell to navigate
Imagine having to command a mechanized until through all those fucking lakes
many of the lakes are connected so it's pretty cool if you have a boat. you can reach a lot of places by sailing, like our family would sometimes opt to take off from our pier and sail directly to our grandparents some 60km away, stopping at a lakeside pizza joint on the way over. its like one piece
That does sound absolutely based as fuck and I would love to visit Finland one of these days as a filthy american just to hike through the wilderness over there
But yeah, who the fuck would want to invade shit like this when it's nothing but lakes down south
Just imagine all the VDV you could drown in that bad boy
dog bless the ice age
Now you imagine the Russian gigaconvoy getting stuck along the only highway leading from the border to inland, with only forest around it, the way forward mined to hell and back, and the rear of the convoy got wrecked by GMLRS.
Yeah, and this time the opposition actually had modern artillery systems, an actual airforce and actual PGMs. And a doctrine based almost entirely on ambushing mass formations of russian troops.
I'm getting hard just thinking about it.
Be careful or you'll get locked up with the A-10 pilots who just never quite recovered from seeing that convoy.
Not to mention FDF went for a massive shopping spree last year. Finland becomes the 2nd largest GMLRS user in the world.
>tuvat täysimääräsisinä
Finnish is not a real language, you cannot convince me otherwise.
Wow idiot. Thats because we have to scrap/sent to garden gnomekraine all non NATO standarded things.
Eventually including fucking Rk62/95
At least it wont be the 5.56 chudammo but 6.8. Cope seethe dilate, but you wont see any AR15 variants. They cant even shoot thru bush. LMAO
>modernize and improve your army
>maximum seething from vatniks
Turpa kii, ryssä.
Natonize=/=modernize
Can you move to USA, traitor
NATO countries make the best shit ergo NATOnizing your gear is modernizing it. Only absolute mouthbreathers still look at Russian gear with awe and reverence. The only thing Russia ever did well was small arms rocketry during the cold war.
>outmanouvers with mach 2.2 your "stealth" mach 1.6 plane
Its invisible! How did you see me, vatnigge-ACK
You do realize missiles are faster than mach 2 and you aren't outmanouvering shit?
>flies to 50km of your flying coffin
>fire missile
>watch you get blown to shit before you can shout "oy blyat"
>fly away
Nothin' personnel vatnik
>he fell for the magic missile meme
You were the ones wanting saab gripen as you deemed f35 is shit. Now you must cope woth magic missiles, as the plane is a fiasco
The problem is that the Su57 has all the same radars and missiles and it just outmanouvers and outruns.
>Not to mention FDF went for a massive shopping spree last year. Finland becomes the 2nd largest GMLRS user in the world.
(G)MLRS is literally rent-a-rocket, the rockets expire after 10 years, so you need to replenish 100% of your inventory over 10 years.
The collective West cannot allow landgrabs in or near the civilised world. Finland cannot lose, just like Ukraine could not lose once it was obvious they weren't going to just roll over. Western support would simply be dialled to level needed
With the allies against them they managed to hold off a much more competent and better armed Russia in the past, with the allies on side I'm going with decisive Finish victory.
Nato's a fucking bad deal for the reservists and conscripts but you are SIMPS. Holy hell, you think now with nato you are LE NAVY SEALS. You are NOT. YOU ARE THE LEAST PERSON NATO WILL GIVE AIR SUPPORT. They will prioritize the miniscule professional troops they have on the battlefield.
How do you think NATO works? Why do you think major powers are willing to let minor powers in?
The whole point is if you get 20 minor powers to join and design their armed forces around interoperability those 20 minor powers now have the combined punch of a single major power.
The only way NATO ever prioritizes which member to defend is when several have collapsing fronts at once and in that case you are still more fucked as a non-member because your occupied nation becomes a geopolitical trading peice instead of land NATO is obligated to reclaim.
nice 322 get my russian friend
Finland would have protected itself for 2 weeks and done fairly decent damage to Russians. Finland has limited manpower and can field one million men at most which is like 20% of their population. After two weeks the nation would collapse and get occupied by Russia.
Da pjotr or whatever fucking nato simp. Unlike ukraine, we actually had working reserve and armed forces.
What would have happened in two weeks? Rudsian colonny eould have been devasted at the border. It would have been inpenetrable. Our massive artillery would have NUKED anything
But thats with that. Now with nato we must scrap every eastern caliber gun
Welcome to globohomo. Should have protested against it instead of supporting garden gnomekraine against Russia.
sorry youre losing
The vatnik repeats the phrase over and over again: "Two weeks. Two weeks. Two weeks."
The uninformed take this as meaning a literal time period; a statement of how something is expected to happen within that timeframe. This is a mistake. "Two weeks" holds not a practical meaning, but a religious one. It's a declaration of faith, of belief. "Two more weeks, trust the plan" is another form used. They believe, against all evidence to the contrary, that if they just destroy enough, sacrifice enough, suffer enough, they will somehow, magically, prevail.
far better than retarded sub 90 iq ukrainian subhumans do
she looks like she fucks shotas
Impossible comparison. Everything is way too different. Only thing that's sure is that border cities works be wrecked like mariupol and Helsinki would be bombed to hell because we lack high altitude interception and russians could do it from their own garrisons.
Because of the sheer difference in manpower, city fighting would be tricky. We'd have to rely on them losing popular support through sheer battlefield humiliation quickly as I think occupying all of Moscow would be an unreasonable ask.
One big disadvantage for Russia would be that they would not be to spread their troops along the border because russian side has seen barely any development after the war. There are only couple roads to Finland and the rest of the border is woods and gravel roads for forest industry.
I believe they don't have nearly the number of SAM complexes Ukraine had, so I'm afraid russia would've got air superiority quite fast
very bad. no nato country has the industrial capacity like russia. even if the finnish leadership wouldnt be as retarded as the holos it would still end very bad lmao
Unlike hohols, Finland would have had 64 kpl autistic, 1 nanosecond reaction time hornet pilots. Russia would have had to use Su-57, with major risks. Basically they would have been downed which would have been so devastating blow to russian reputation it would have actually destroyed russia from inside change of power.
So, the only option was to go after ukraine. They are easy targets
I dunno, what am I like the oracle of cumae?
First you should ask “why would Russia invade Finland?” to figure out how much Russia would commit to the attack, what international support Finland would have, how willing Finland would be to retaliate, e.g. by bombing SpB, and how willing both sides would be to negotiate to end the war.
Is that a boy or a girl in OP's pic?
You can masturbate to it regardless
Finland in terms of skilled manpower has 230.000 first line of well trained and frequently practised reserve, and another 700.000 men also with conscript training and reserve practises. More than 50.000 reservists have AK or AR rifles at home and gear good to go:
Add to prepardness 700.000 gun owners/hunters with 1.500.000 guns. Some 200.000 hunters with target rifles complete hunting marksmanship test every 3 years, most belonging to locally well organized hunting clubs with communications equipment and usually many members being also reservists.
One needs to understand that when every other country in Europe started to dismantle their military forces after end of Soviet Union, Finland maintained its conscript - reserve army model and kept on modernizing its armament on all levels, Army, Navy/Coastal defence and Air Force.
Finland with small fast anti ship missile boats which hide well within the vast archipelago of the Gulf of Finland (at narrovest only ca 70km across and mosty very shallow) and mobile land based anti naval missiles and coastal artillery, together with Europes largest stockpile of naval mines can close all sea traffic from russians from and to St. Petersburg. Together with Swedish navy missile boats and submarines and their coastal missiles, most of the Baltic Sea is off-limits to russians too, locking them also to Kaliningrad.
FYI you can go by boat from the Baltic to Kuopio (see top middle of map) but you need to pass trough russian captured territory since the canal from the lake to the sea ends in Vyborg.
Strongly this. Even IF the russians could break the Finnish main defence forces (that they obvioysly cant do, not even before the war) the vast amount of weapons and people willing and able to use them would cause another Afganistan. Huge forests, hudreds of thousands hi-calibre hunting rifles, AK/AR rifles, marksamn-level training and all FDF kit that would be given to the population... Good luck.
I dont have any problem to take my gun and kit, disappear to innawoods and conducting guerrilla war from there. Against r*ssians there is no surrender. Ever.
a better question is how well will glow morons fare against muh russians and muh chinese. glow morons always trying to talk tough, when we will get to see them become cannon fodder
How do I get a cute Finnish gf bros?
Buy her coffee for five years until she finally speaks her first word to you
Finnish, Swedish, Danish and Norvegian Air Forces have a total of some 250 modern fighter planes (fully working ones vs Russian ???), with already years of mutual practises and joint command capability. These can also carry US made cruise missiles, such as JASSM´s, which also Finland has recently purchased.
https://ilmavoimat.fi/en/-/jassm-rynnakkoohjuksen-onnistunut-koeammunta-yhdysvalloissa
How do you stop her?
No Oddjob!
You cant. She is the queen khalisi. The princess amidala. The wonder woman. She is fighting with the Lannisters . She challenges the dark force and thanos.
Please watch this film, that oddly fits in Ukraine but was produced before war...
The old one is better
TUO KAAKAO!!