How well would a Merkava perform in a peer-to-peer conflict?

How well would a Merkava perform in a peer-to-peer conflict?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >120mm gun
    >composite armor
    >thermal sights
    >APS
    its going to do just fine
    only thing its lags behind in is mobility, but its by no means slow thanks to its 1500hp

    its otherwise capable of spotting, firing, and penetrating most enemy targets while having decent protection and adequate mobility

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      /thread

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >120mm gun
        >composite armor
        >thermal sights
        >APS
        its going to do just fine
        only thing its lags behind in is mobility, but its by no means slow thanks to its 1500hp

        its otherwise capable of spotting, firing, and penetrating most enemy targets while having decent protection and adequate mobility

        Thanks. I just really like Merkava lol

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >only thing its lags behind in is mobility, but its by no means slow thanks to its 1500hp
      >He thinks the only thing that matters to mobility is muh hp/t ratio
      The Merkava has shit autonomy and it's massive weight means that only a select few tractor trailors can transport it. It was designed to just do shit in Israel so it has shit range and fuel economy and has no rail transportability. Any adversary doesn't even need to destroy the Merkavas, just hit their shitty trailer transports and they can't respond to any changes in the front. The protection is also shit on the hull and "the engine will block things" meme will always be moronic since it's just non-armor grade cast iron and aluminum. At best it blocks 1 shot for a mobility kill on the vehicle.

      Has the Merkava (the latest one) ever been up for export?

      Yes it has and the closest it ever got to being adopted was an AVLB based on the Merkava being adopted in the Philippines. They have a tank program coming up, but the Merkava 4 is slated to be eliminated early on due to it's weight being too much for what the Philippines needs. There was also some rumor of some European country buying old Merkava 3s when everyone was sending tanks to UKR, but that never materialized in any meaningful capacity.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >pinoys using the merkava
        hilarious how many tiny manlets they can fit inside
        it will become an ifv with a 120mm gun kek

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The short list is
          >Merkava 4
          >Leopard 2A7
          >K2
          >Type 10
          The Leopard 2 will likely be eliminated because of some issues had with KMW that lead to a Merkava based AVLB being adopted instead of a Leopard 2 based on. The Merkava will be eliminated because of the weight. This would just leave the K2 and the Type 10, but that depends on if Japan would even be willing to sell the Type 10 which trends show it wouldn't. Either way the final 2 contenders would be Asian MBTs.

          >The Merkava has shit autonomy and it's massive weight means that only a select few tractor trailors can transport it.
          its about the same weight as the M1 abrams

          >The protection is also shit on the hull and "the engine will block things"
          hull protection has been composite since the mk2
          the engine was never intended to stop the projectile by itself either, its there to stop the spalling from projectiles from killing the crew
          and even that is just a fringe benefit of adding the rear hatch so the crew can bail out with the bulk of the tank between them and the enemy and to resupply easily without the use of a hoist

          >At best it blocks 1 shot for a mobility kill on the vehicle.
          pretty much anything that penetrates the hull is a mobility kill because the crew is going to bail when penetrated anyways

          but the merkava is still decently protected, well armed, and just mobile enough to keep up with the rest of the army and would be no worse than any other tank in its position

          >its about the same weight as the M1 abrams
          Lol no, most israelite sources state 80 tons without Trophy and 82 with Trophy. It's an overweight pos.

          >hull protection has been composite since the mk2
          Yeah this shitty thin piece of composite that is thinner than the Merkava's side skirt armor
          >the engine was never intended to stop the projectile by itself either, its there to stop the spalling from projectiles from killing the crew
          Most non-moronic nations just choose to include more composite armor instead that stops projectiles and by consequence spalling too.
          >rear hatch so the crew can bail out with the bulk of the tank between them and the enemy and to resupply easily without the use of a hoist
          Well yeah it's original design philosophy was to be a hull down fighter in the golan heights. This idea that the Merkava 4 is some super armored tank was a shitty afterthought throwing it into an environment it wasn't designed for.
          >the crew is going to bail when penetrated anyways
          Again most nations aren't moronic and just add more armor on the front so it doesn't get penetrated in the first place.
          Your only argument in favor of the Merkava is "at least the crew can run away better when its quickly stomped"
          >would be no worse than any other tank in its position
          Yes it would be. It's shit overweight, has shit hull armor, and lacks any kind of operational or strategic mobility.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            your entire argument just hinges on the composite armor supposedly being super thin when it isnt

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Are you blind or just moronic?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            it's 65 tons with trophy
            it can mount an additional 5 ton plate on its bottom and have additional shit that increases its max weight, like mine rollers or Urdan trailers
            but it's regular combat ready weight is 65 tons
            about the same as the abrams

            the merkava was designed from the lessons of the yom kippur war and you're missing the entire sinai front. the hull had the engine in front to add protection to the hull originally. so that already negates that shit.
            and i shit you not one of the factors that led them to select the type of suspension they used is to add more protection to the hull (shiryon issue 59 page 34)
            the philosophy they chose is crew survivability over anything else

            it's not war thunder
            if you get penetrated you're basically out of the fight

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Been up since forever, but only Philippines bought a few mk4 s converted into an AVLB variant.
            Supposedly Cyprus and another unnamed Euro country are currently negotiating/considering a purchase.

            [...]
            >Yemen
            Has virtually 0 force projection- save for a few ballistic missiles and fricking with trade routes.
            >Syria
            Too much in shambles to pose any serious threat. The civil war is technically still on-going.
            >Lebanon, ie Hezbollah
            Probably replaced Syria as the de-facto northern-front threat, but while Syria used to be a peer-state (and a bit more), Hezb isn't anywhere near a peer force.
            >Iraq
            Used to lob planes SCUDs. Nowadays, I don't think they have much to do besides sending foot soldiers.
            >Iran
            No force projection. Their whole strategy is based on proxies- namely Houthis in Yemen and Hezbollah
            >Egypt
            Now here's the good stuff. Their numbers are funny-massive- both manpower and equipment (especially compared to Israel). They've been modernizing for quit some time using western (primarily US). They see Israel as the prime strategic adversary and probably has several armies dedicated to that front while Israel, enjoying the peace treaty, diverted it's strategic focus elsewhere.
            On the flip side, it's an open secret that the main muscle behind punching ISIS in the Sinai peninsula was Israel- by request of Egypt that struggled with dealing with them.
            >Surprise bonus: Jordan
            Politically unstable (their entire current-form existence is dependent on Israel), economically dependent (again, on Israel)- but their military is probably no joke (good training, western equipment) and it sits on Israel's longest, most vulnerable and least defended border.

            If Israel has the initiative like in '67, chances seem reasonably favor them. If not, like in '73, I'd say it's a coin fflip.

            >we live in the era where Pinoys will send Chinese cosmonauts into space with Merkava Mk IVs

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >merkava is horribly overweight
            >they should just add more armor!
            Which is it anon?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            all false

            pre kung flu this shithole military wanted a light tank because every road and bridge outside of the capital can't handle modern mbts and the areas where these will be used are in muddy, swampy ricefields. the americans never brought their abrams in this shithole either though the aussies did bring a couple of their m1a1s years ago but it only travelled on solid paved roads and beachfront

            elbit systems came up with the ascod 2 with a 120mm gun, the reason it was rejected was mostly ammo related since this shithole does not have any 120mm guns to begin with but a plethora of 105mm. buying a 120mm gun meant buying a ton of 120mm ammo which is not part of this shithole's budget

            to save up on crew and despite elbit's advise they downgraded the ascod 2 with a 105mm gun plus autoloader, your average pinoy soldier can't lift even 105mm rounds by himself in a moving cramped space. what you have now is this piece of shit that will get rekt in a real war

            the number initially called for 140+ units but kung flu hit and the number was reduced to like 30~ with 10 of those being a pandur 2 8x8 with the same 105mm turret

            the only good thing is that this shithole military is pushing for the remaining 120~ units and plans to order more ascod 2 as our main ifv but then hamas started killing israelites so every israelite mic is out building stuff for the idf and no more exports for a while

            the merkava 4 bridgelayer was the result of germany banning export of the leo2 to this shithole thanks to the beijing candidate mouthing off and insulting merkel and the eu

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The Merkava has shit autonomy and it's massive weight means that only a select few tractor trailors can transport it.
        its about the same weight as the M1 abrams

        >The protection is also shit on the hull and "the engine will block things"
        hull protection has been composite since the mk2
        the engine was never intended to stop the projectile by itself either, its there to stop the spalling from projectiles from killing the crew
        and even that is just a fringe benefit of adding the rear hatch so the crew can bail out with the bulk of the tank between them and the enemy and to resupply easily without the use of a hoist

        >At best it blocks 1 shot for a mobility kill on the vehicle.
        pretty much anything that penetrates the hull is a mobility kill because the crew is going to bail when penetrated anyways

        but the merkava is still decently protected, well armed, and just mobile enough to keep up with the rest of the army and would be no worse than any other tank in its position

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        you didn't get a single thing right
        >The Merkava has shit autonomy and it's massive weight means that only a select few tractor trailors can transport it.
        it weighs about the same as the abrams and is transported on standard heavy equipment trailers
        >It was designed to just do shit in Israel so it has shit range and fuel economy
        range is also on par with other tanks
        and even if it was a problem logistics are a thing
        and even in the theoretical scenario trucks can't reach the tanks all israeli heavy armor can tow external fuel tank trailers
        and namers are now mounting an additional experimental external fuel tank which i probably shouldn't post pictures off
        >and has no rail transportability.
        it can be transported by rail
        was done in an experiment in the IDF
        >Any adversary doesn't even need to destroy the Merkavas, just hit their shitty trailer transports and they can't respond to any changes in the front.
        since they're not special like you claim
        nope
        >The protection is also shit on the hull
        it's fine
        it's optimized for HEAT which isn't ideal for kinetic penetrators, but since the armor is modular it can be changed if that threat ever becomes serious
        which was already done - the merkava mk4 isn't on its first revision of armor
        >and "the engine will block things" meme will always be moronic since it's just non-armor grade cast iron and aluminum. At best it blocks 1 shot for a mobility kill on the vehicle.
        this argument is moronic
        if it already penetrates the front it's already a mission kill
        now its wether it's a mobility kill or dead crew
        there are a lot of downsides to mounting an engine in the front. this isn't one of them
        t. IDF

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The protection is also shit on the hull and "the engine will block things" meme will always be moronic since it's just non-armor grade cast iron and aluminum. At best it blocks 1 shot for a mobility kill on the vehicle.
        Bro no-ones going to be driving their tank around after a round goes through the armor on any tank. It might stop a bit of spalling. At worst it does the tank no harm being up front.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The Merkava has shit autonomy and it's massive weight means that only a select few tractor trailors can transport it.

        Merkava range = 500 km
        Abrams range = 250-300 km
        Leopard range = 450 km

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Why is its range so good wtf

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            probably a lot of fuel as they use it too as armor

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            it's more or less israel distance from south to north so may have been a design parameter to achieve.

            Also unlike the abrams or leopard it seems to be pure sloped armour so maybe internally the armor is smaller and has more fuel deposit?

            Idk tbh

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      in terms of mobility it also has the same amount of gears in forward and reserve
      so it can 60kph in reverse which is neat

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Has the Merkava (the latest one) ever been up for export?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Been up since forever, but only Philippines bought a few mk4 s converted into an AVLB variant.
      Supposedly Cyprus and another unnamed Euro country are currently negotiating/considering a purchase.

      [...]
      Both I guess. I was wondering how Israel would fare in Six Day War 2.0 against Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, and a coup’d Egypt

      >Yemen
      Has virtually 0 force projection- save for a few ballistic missiles and fricking with trade routes.
      >Syria
      Too much in shambles to pose any serious threat. The civil war is technically still on-going.
      >Lebanon, ie Hezbollah
      Probably replaced Syria as the de-facto northern-front threat, but while Syria used to be a peer-state (and a bit more), Hezb isn't anywhere near a peer force.
      >Iraq
      Used to lob planes SCUDs. Nowadays, I don't think they have much to do besides sending foot soldiers.
      >Iran
      No force projection. Their whole strategy is based on proxies- namely Houthis in Yemen and Hezbollah
      >Egypt
      Now here's the good stuff. Their numbers are funny-massive- both manpower and equipment (especially compared to Israel). They've been modernizing for quit some time using western (primarily US). They see Israel as the prime strategic adversary and probably has several armies dedicated to that front while Israel, enjoying the peace treaty, diverted it's strategic focus elsewhere.
      On the flip side, it's an open secret that the main muscle behind punching ISIS in the Sinai peninsula was Israel- by request of Egypt that struggled with dealing with them.
      >Surprise bonus: Jordan
      Politically unstable (their entire current-form existence is dependent on Israel), economically dependent (again, on Israel)- but their military is probably no joke (good training, western equipment) and it sits on Israel's longest, most vulnerable and least defended border.

      If Israel has the initiative like in '67, chances seem reasonably favor them. If not, like in '73, I'd say it's a coin fflip.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Just like T55 or Abrams.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Just like T55
      the earliest merkavas would have been closer to the T-62s
      but the current merkavas, the 3 and 4, would handily outperform most T-72s and T-64s, and only the most modern and upgraded T-80s and T-90s would be on the same level as the merkava 4

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Just like T55 or Abrams.

        Both I guess. I was wondering how Israel would fare in Six Day War 2.0 against Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, and a coup’d Egypt

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Might fair better than puccian planes

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      What is the American equivalent to the Su-34?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        What is the American equivalent to the Su-34
        maybe the f-111? similar level of tech.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          I think the Su-24 is the F-111 Soviet equivalent.
          The Su-34 is more like a pre superhornet F-18, a pure fighter bomber.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why are the canons always stowed down facing on this tank?

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    How did the Hamas fighters get the crew out of the Merkava on October 7th? Looked like one was dead already when he was dragged out and flopped onto the ground. It's like the only video I have seen of the IDF losing a tank in this whole schtick.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Israel has no peers in the region.

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Is it weird that I am starting to at least respect Israel as a fighting force? I feel like I shouldn’t because I’m Muslim but like their vehicles look cool as shit.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    would dominate against any tank
    israeli armor crews are the best trained tank-on-tank crews on the planet

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