How the hell did people tolerate this unwieldy musket of a rifle?

How the hell did people tolerate this unwieldy musket of a rifle? The barrel is comically long so much that it’s unusable for tactical CQB! I would probably have to stop and think every time I went through a door so I didn’t get stuck! All that length and it doesn’t even have a can! Crazy how primitive rifles used to be!

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    skill

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anon if you look at the rifles that came before it- M14, M1, BAR, the m16's length was hardly out of place

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    SOVL. Although the way the burst mechanism on the M16A2 functioned was awful. And the whole burst mode idea was stupid to begin with. Thank Marine stupidity for making that a thing. And thank Army incompetence for ignoring the recommended changes testers wanted in the Army's new rifle after they tested the M16A2 prototypes the Marines had been using.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I forgot to add the continued Army stupidity in keeping the burst mode on the M4. And IIRC at some point Colt offered a much better mechanism to achieve that burst fire mode but nobody bought it because they didn't want to spend a very small amount more per rifle.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I can assure you no Marine grunt that did real shit was down with the A2 changes. Guaranteed it was some officer with a stick up their ass about dumb officer land concepts.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm sure they weren't. I recall reading somewhere that there was some group of USMC officers who wanted the M16A2 to be semi-auto only. The three-round burst mode, which I think Colt had toyed with previously in some prototypes, was chosen as some sort of compromise.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Guaranteed it was some officer with a stick up their ass about dumb officer land concepts.
        The army guy that pushed for a lot of the changes was literally convinced squad leaders would be ordering volleys like it was ye olde musket days

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          there is no way. that cant be real. any readings on that?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Absolutely not. Stop falling for obvious bait.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Sorry

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They also fricked the barrel profile

      https://i.imgur.com/TKvhPIN.png

      How the frick did cavemen tolerate tools made out of fricking stone? Hard to make precisely, barely any reliability compared to metal tools. Why did it take them so long to invent copper smithing? Crazy how primitive tools used to be!

      Top heh

      I forgot to add the continued Army stupidity in keeping the burst mode on the M4. And IIRC at some point Colt offered a much better mechanism to achieve that burst fire mode but nobody bought it because they didn't want to spend a very small amount more per rifle.

      >Colt offered a much better mechanism to achieve that burst fire
      [desire to know more]

      https://i.imgur.com/Wus5n5c.jpg

      >same length barrel
      >8" shorter
      Shame everyone fricked up their various bullpup attempts during the execution for various reasons.

      Bullpup ergos are always fricked

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm British military, when you train on and use the l85 all the time you get the muscle memory and everything becomes second nature. But I've trained on/seen guys train on and use the sharpshooter rifle and the differences absolutely blow peoples minds to the point they complain about it being hard to use. Even though it's just a AR platform.
        TLDR: use something enough and you get used to it

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >old habits die hard
          Fair dinkum

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Same as weapon familiarity with AK/AR platforms goes, you'd think we'd be over this kind of shit by now.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      M16a2 is ultimate kino, they recognized the value of having an iconic rifle in recruiting

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Something about the original C7 is so appealing to me but the C7A1 has a dogshit optic and the C7A2 has terrible balance

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How the frick did cavemen tolerate tools made out of fricking stone? Hard to make precisely, barely any reliability compared to metal tools. Why did it take them so long to invent copper smithing? Crazy how primitive tools used to be!

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They didn't like it back then either. My dad was in the Iraq invasion of 2003. He raised hell until he got an M4.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Was it because the one he was issued was a worn out piece of junk by that time or because he was often stuck doing stuff like riding around in a HMMWV or truck most of the day? When first introduced some soldiers pointed out some of the stupid decisions they had made on it (the same ones Army testers had also pointed out) but were pleased that it was very accurate.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >My dad was in the Iraq invasion of 2003
      >likely, makes me feel old cause I was there too
      >He raised hell until he got an M4.
      >Unlikely
      Was your Dad a Staff NCO, company commander and/or field grade officer?
      If so, raising hell? That's some fantasy shit out of the mind of some Lance Coolie

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because it weighed nothing, had no recoil, was effortlessly accurate, and significantly shorter than everything that came before it.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >wahh, muh cqb
    >i-it's too long
    Stop shouldering the fricking thing! Is hip firing too goddamn hard for you homosexuals?

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the real question is why can't 20" Black folk just enjoy their rifle instead of starting a bunch of seethe threads over SBRs?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >he says, in a thread b***hing about 20"

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >same length barrel
    >8" shorter
    Shame everyone fricked up their various bullpup attempts during the execution for various reasons.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Been this same thread in one form or another at least twice a month for the last 15 years

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Does anyone make quality two-piece plastic handguard that has a sling attachment point next to the barrel?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The most i can give you is a magpul handguard with a qd point on one of the mlok slots

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Those are ugly though 🙁

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Wasn’t gonna burst that bubble but yes magpul is absolutely tasteless. There’s a lighting mount option that screws into carbine/rifle handguard holes like pseudo mlok and you might find something like that for a sling mount though

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, I've considered the option of mounting something to a regular A2 handguard but I'm worried doing so with a sling mount would cause too much torquing on the plastic handguard not meant for that type of thing.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I wouldn’t worry about it anon. If you wanna get creative you can weave some 550 cord through the handguard holes near the slip ring and make a DIY mount. It’ll work perfectly fine because 550 cord is tough enough for it and I’ve personally had to use 550 DIY slings before without issue

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Tasteless? Eh. Anywhere to get a good MLOK handguard that isn't too slim/narrow (not sure how to describe it) which I find the Geissele ones to be despite how everyone jerks off about them?

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Midwest makes drop in mlok rails for every length. They won’t hold zero and how tight their lockup is depends on your slip ring, but they’ll work for a sling/grip/light

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not everyone is a weak little b***h like you.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Hes never shot a 20 inch
    Sad!

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >he needs a short barrel
    Just say youre a weak wristed homosexual zoomer

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    M16 as issued was with light weight plastic handguards so forward weight wasn't an issue.
    >CQB
    Cold war was all about popping hordes of russian light armor in places where armor works as in not the bathrooms of a third world hovel because those would be flattened by both sides. GWOT was not and is not how conventional war looks like. Also in Iraq suspect buildings would just get grenades thrown in or tanks told to blow holes in walls. CQB is SWAT and hostage rescue shit along with civilians needing a cool guy course to tack onto their "shit no one gives a frick about enthusiast" resume.
    You will never be a real operator so just learn to make explosives instead. Everyman a rifleman and semi auto is better is just sour grapes and cope.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    wait until you find out how long and heavy rifles were before the m16

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >flippy sticker
      kino

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >!

    May as well be the strawman/bad-faith mark

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >t.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    its cool

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Short people should NOT be covered under the 2nd amendment

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    LRPs got something very cool, though

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How the hell did people tolerate this unwieldy musket of a rifle?
    Because given all it's faults, it was an improvement on what was there previously.
    Specialists generally got special versions better suited to their roles or just other weapon types altogether.
    If you wanted something short, and weren't the average grunt, you got an XM177E2, if that was still too long, you got a grease gun, and if you were one of the poor fricks that had to clear tunnels, you got a revolver.

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You fight with the weapons you are given, not the weapons you wish you had. If that costs you, well, colaterable damage is always acceptable as long as it is your skin and not the skin of the politicians who sent you.

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't see what the complaints are about. I used an M4 and an M110 my whole time in the infantry and the one time I got to shoot an M16 I thought the longer sight radius made it very comfy to shoot and carry without the unwieldy length and weight of the suppressed 110.

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Guns have been getting shorter and lighter over time.
    The m4 is light, really light. Lighter than the guns which preceded and followed it.
    Shorter barrels existed but at that time velocity was considered to be critical, the m5 has an even higher velocity. In many ways the strange part is the 2000s when everyone seemed to want a short barrel and tolerated poor muzzle velocity.

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why do zoomers assume general infantry do cqb all the time? Fallujah was fought primarily with frags

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There are millions of rooms in a city. You can't frag every one, especially if you don't want to kill 15 civilians per every enemy, but you wouldn't want to wander in with your eyes shut either.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >You can't frag every one
        Kek, watch me.

        >kill 15 civilians per every enemy
        Order evacuation first, moron.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There may be an enemy combatant or civilian attempting to take shelter in every single one of these rooms. Are you gonna carry a backpack full of grenades everywhere you go?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >ITT, what is a squad

            >a backpack full
            More like a crate full back in the APC, dumbass.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >okay anon take your squad and clear this shit

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If there's a significant enemy force entrenched inside that, the solution isn't "muh short-barrel carbine", it's a JDAM or five. And if you wanna go full "muh collateral damage bad" then the solution is surrounding the place and starving the frickers out. It absolutely ISN'T to try and go feed men into a meatgrinder trying to clear that shit room by room.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous
    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because they were not born prior to 9/11 dont remember shit till midway through GWOT and were raised by CS-GO

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Most recruits first gun is their standard issue service rifle. It is hard to complain when you have nothing to compare it against. And since everyone has the same rifle as you there is no sense of unfairness.

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Door kicking CQB was not a part of the military tactical doctrine outside of SEAL Team 6 and Delta during the time the A2 was issued.

    The CQB guys used Car-15s and or Mp5's

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    troll thread but the A2 and A4 are perfectly fine as cqb weapons, gwot kiddies just cant grasp that there are no downsides to a 20 if you arent a dyel

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >being strong means your guns length stops being an issue indoors

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What are the pros/cons of 3 round burst?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Cool as fuvk

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The only pro is it conserves ammo, three rounds is a weird number where you get an insane amount of muzzle climb even on a heavy A2/A4. Many people have said a four round burst at 750-850rpm is the minimum you need to pull your muzzle down back to the target. Three stops just short of that and feels weird.

      The actual triple sear mechanism required to do 3RB is atrocious and you get two (arguably three) different trigger pulls with different takeup and weight. That's why when the mk12 program came around they pulled A1 lowers out of storage

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