How the fuck do you let 6 carriers and 500 planes sneak up on you?

How the frick do you let 6 carriers and 500 planes sneak up on you?
Is this the most embarrassing moment in US military history?

250 Piece Survival Gear First Aid Kit

LifeStraw Water Filter for Hiking and Preparedness

250 Piece Survival Gear First Aid Kit

  1. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    IIRC several people noticed, including a Radar Tech named Kermit Tyler.. but when reporting it up the chain was told "lol, don't worry about it"

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Radar was brand new at the time, so the old frick he reported it to said something along the lines of "it's probably broken".

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        The radar operators reported in the initial Japanese contacts to their control center, but there was an exercise that past week and the radar site was in the process of being shut down for the weekend.
        Kermit Tyler, the LT who dismissed the radar signatures wasn't actually a Signals troop but a random Air Corps officer that was just working staff duty at the installation at the time. Contrary to popular lore, nobody at the radar station knew of the B-17s from California as their mission was classified. Tyler claimed he was only going to wait until shift changeover which happened a few minutes before the attack started.
        The enlisted technician at the control installation who first took the call from Opana Point actually knew the radar operators from tech school and tried to contact senior officers Hickam, but it was too late

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >the radar site was in the process of being shut down for the weekend.
          Attack when the radar is off work, good to know.

  2. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    So what did Russia lose today?

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      strangely enough you can tell how russia is doing in the war by how low effort the bait posting gets.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Every time the Ukraine war isn't on screen, the other characters should be asking, "Where's the Ukraine war?"

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >LALALALALALAAAA! i can't hear you! stop noticing things

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          You are actually brainwashed and it's horrifying
          You were a promising child, once

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            That bad huh?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >its horrifying
            could be worse. could be topping myself in a ukraine trench. speaking of such, i came here to see the daily russian suicide, where is it?

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              You came into a Pearl Harbor thread for that? You must be very stupid. Don't you feel stupid?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                could be worse. could be topping myself in a ukraine trench. speaking of such, i came here to see the daily russian suicide, where is it?

  3. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    armatard sucks donkey dicks

  4. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Look, there's something people really seem to not understand about naval warfare: ships do not have infinite range, especially back in that era. It's not just the carriers, it's the destroyers that escort them, which have even harsher fuel restriction.

    THAT'S what makes Pearl Harbor so impressive, and what made it such a surprise: that in the middle of blatantly planning and executing a massive offensive all across the Western Pacific, they somehow also managed to scrape together enough fuel and tankers to haul almost 50 ships on a round trip of almost half the world. The sheer balls-to-the-wall insanity of it is nearly unrivaled in the history of warfare, and I have no problem declaring that it was the best single move anyone ever pulled over on the US military.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This. It was absolutely unthinkable at the time that the Japs or anyone could pull off such a daring attack that stretched their logistics to such limits. Shame the US carriers weren't there.
      Read up on the early bombing raid by the English against the airport runway on the Falklands for a slightly more modern equivalent. IIRC it took something like 14 fuel planes refueling each other in flight to get a single bomber to the island to drop like, 2 bombs and return to base, denying the Argies the ability to launch fighters from the island. There's a great mini documentary about it on YouTube somewhere.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Addendum, the Doolittle raids were also up there. You can get a whole lot of magical shit done when you throw out the silly notion of your planes returning to your carriers, or even landing at an airstrip at all.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Doolittle Raid was like 6 bombers, not 500 bombers and fighters.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          The Doolittle raid wasn't logistically crazy, just slightly suicidal.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        I'm pretty sure that was the only combat sortie ever flown by a Vulcan

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The sheer balls-to-the-wall insanity of it is nearly unrivaled in the history of warfare

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Hans, was ist dat strange ticking noise?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You Britischers must be mad, ramming a flimsy destroyer into a dock gate and thinking it will take it out of operatio-

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Shame the US carriers weren't there.
        Frick off Black person

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        you're probably talking about this documentary

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Good point. I'm an Army guy, so I've never even thought of about the logistics of Naval warfare.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This. It was absolutely unthinkable at the time that the Japs or anyone could pull off such a daring attack that stretched their logistics to such limits. Shame the US carriers weren't there.
      Read up on the early bombing raid by the English against the airport runway on the Falklands for a slightly more modern equivalent. IIRC it took something like 14 fuel planes refueling each other in flight to get a single bomber to the island to drop like, 2 bombs and return to base, denying the Argies the ability to launch fighters from the island. There's a great mini documentary about it on YouTube somewhere.

      It was unthinkable because it was moronic. Brilliant tactical victory; suicidal strategic blunder. Even if the japs had sunk the carriers and invaded HI, the entire plan was predicated on the wrong-headed idea that the US would capitulate. The japanese did not, and would not ever have had, the industrial base, natural resources, and manpower to compete with the US.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not capitulate but sue for peace

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          whatever. "do anything but fight to the bitter end."

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            I mean the japs had the 1905 War when the Tsarists sued for peace after Tsushima, they thought after a decisive battle the Americans would do the same but Uncle Sam said 'lol no lemme get the industry up and running real quick brah'

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Honestly this is probably the most stupid thinking from the Japanese for the whole war, I still can't grap my mind that they would think that the Americans were in the same situation that Russia was in 1905. I get that armies normally learn from their own experience to future conflicts, but did they really forget that from Trafalgar to Napoleon's defeat was more than just a few months?

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              if they did demolish the navy and then you had half a dozen carriers bombing the west coast, what would have happened?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Japanese logistics completely collapses and they lose even harder.

  5. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    They got lucky and had a plan ballsy enough that they caught their enemy unawares. Shit happens in war.

    If you look at Overlord through op's lense, then Germany should have just thrown in the towel for getting caught off guard

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >that they caught their enemy unawares
      if that's what you want to believe

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >if that's what you want to believe
        That's what the evidence indicates.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          """"""evidence""""""

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous
          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Look, it's not my fault that garbage value systems produce garbage militaries.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          evidence indicates USA knew about the attack

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            they knew some attack was possible but they did not know were it would be especially since the nips ordered radio silence on the pearl harbor operation, US command thought that the attack would be against closer targets such as guam or the philippines, as the other guy pointed out the whoel pearl harbor move was such a ballsy move from a logistical standpoint that nobody would have seriously considered it to be a target until it was to late

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Correct. Japs did not maintain radio silence. US listening stations in the Pacific and West Coast picked them up decoded and triangulated locations days prior to the attack.

            US let it happen.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Swallow medicine. NOW!

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Its also moronic to think that the US knew about the attack but chose to let the Pacific fleet get crippled. You realize the attack doesn't have to be successful for it to be a good enough reason to go to war. Even if the attack on Pearl Harbor fails, the Japanese stick attacked Hawaii. Additionally, on the same day Japan invades Hong Kong, Guam, Malaya, The Phillipines AND declares war on the United States. The idea the US just let the Japanese destroy half a dozen capital ships to start a war is an idea that only exists in the minds of half-wits and those completely devoid of common sense.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              https://i.imgur.com/rBqpaUV.jpg

              if 'THEY KNEW" well before hand, there's the opportunity to forewarn Hawaii with enough time to get birds in the air to slaughter the japs at the outset of their COWARDLY SNEAK ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR. The end result would be the same if the attack were successful or if it was thwarted. The Americans would still have gone to war with them regardless.

              Thank you for being sensible

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Additionally, on the same day Japan invades Hong Kong, Guam, Malaya, The Phillipines AND declares war on the United States
              Here is the thing you don't know that prior.

              >The idea the US just let the Japanese destroy half a dozen capital ships
              These losses mean nothing in the gand scheme of things. But American public opinion would de set to fight till the end of Japan.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        if 'THEY KNEW" well before hand, there's the opportunity to forewarn Hawaii with enough time to get birds in the air to slaughter the japs at the outset of their COWARDLY SNEAK ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR. The end result would be the same if the attack were successful or if it was thwarted. The Americans would still have gone to war with them regardless.

  6. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    technically speaking, a lot of people knew they were coming
    obviously it was a big false flag op to wrangle themselves into the war

  7. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    they let it happen on purpose to get the public on the war
    they knew about the attack in advance

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >the JFK assassin shot the WTC and it fell on Pearl Harbor using roswell reactionless drive technology
      Why is America like this.

  8. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Is this the most embarrassing moment in US military history?
    No. That would be the burning of Washington D.C, the POTUS fleeing and the White House being burned down.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Indeed, the day of the rake will come and American will have its vengeance.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Use a rake on the british? Wut?

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, that was legit pretty fricked day. I kind of think its why the US is so fricked and militarized today. I think the Leafs know it too which is why they are such pushovers; trying to make amends to the world.

        As a canadian I'll forego our usual chiding about burning the white house to mention it was mostly British Soldiers who were responsible for the burning of washington, and that god himself intervened and torrential rain from a passing hurricane arrived and literally saved the city from being burned down completely.

        There were 0 Canadians, or British troops who had been stationed in Canada, present in the force that attacked DC and was BTFO near Baltimore. They were troops sent from the Peninsula War to fight in the US and staged out of Bermuda.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, that was legit pretty fricked day. I kind of think its why the US is so fricked and militarized today. I think the Leafs know it too which is why they are such pushovers; trying to make amends to the world.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      As a canadian I'll forego our usual chiding about burning the white house to mention it was mostly British Soldiers who were responsible for the burning of washington, and that god himself intervened and torrential rain from a passing hurricane arrived and literally saved the city from being burned down completely.

  9. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    it would have worked better if they actually caught the american carriers

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      or if they destroyed the massive fuel depots that supplied the entire pacific

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I can't imagine the sinking feeling Yammamoto had when he heard the carriers weren't there.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >I can't imagine the sinking feeling Yammamoto had when he heard the carriers weren't there.
        If anything, it would be a floating feeling, right?

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yamamoto knew the whole idea wasn't good anyway.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Japanese intel knew the day before that the carriers weren't in port.

        or if they destroyed the massive fuel depots that supplied the entire pacific

        Would have been a massive pain in the ass to significantly damage, and could be replaced in relatively short order.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Would have been a massive pain in the ass to significantly damage, and could be replaced in relatively short order.
          lmao no

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            lmao yes

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              ok moron

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                By all means elaborate

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                The fuel tanks, which even today sometimes catch fire just from lightening strikes, would not have been "a massive pain in the ass to significantly damage" and the amount of oil stored in them would've completely stopped the entire pacific fleet in its tracks for weeks - months depending on how Japan followed up.
                It was arguably the biggest mistake of the raid, worse even than missing the carriers (because carrier warfare was still in its infancy and only became the centerpiece of naval combat that it is today BECAUSE of people like Nimitz being forced to completely rewrite the book in light of the new paradigm)

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                The problem with so much of this thinking is that it follows the Japanese mindset throughout the war: that everything will play out according to plan and the US won't respond and adapt.

                Firstly, the expectation that Japan could just knock out an entire base worth of oil with a singular carrier strike is unrealistic. Conditions at Pearl Harbor, from the weather to the smoke accumulation to the AAA meant that bombing would be inaccurate and likely sustain heavy losses. Oil depots suffered attacks from warships and heavy bombers without immediately going up in flames, there is little reason to presume that an attack by light bombers would result in that.

                Even if a good portion of Pearl's oil was rendered unusable, the US had the largest tanker fleet in the world. Throughout the early months of the war the bottleneck in fuel was in fleet oilers, forward storage and moving it there, not rear area storage. If the US has to tell the civilian population to carpool so they can divert a few tankers for a few weeks to shore up the Pearl Harbor reserves that's not a breaking point. Adding to this is that the Pearl reserves were for a full US fleet, but which now had no thirsty battleships to supply.

                And finally, even if we agree the US fleet would be unable to act for weeks, every major action the Allies fought in those days was a crushing defeat. What changes?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Throughout the early months of the war the bottleneck in fuel was in fleet oilers, forward storage and moving it there
                And with no fuel for the forward deployed assets, the Jap fleet could pester those oil tankers at will. If the oil stores at Pearl had been destroyed, the Japanese would've had total control of everything west of 130 for at least several months.

                I'm not saying the plan was foolproof, America would certainly have come back in 42/43 and started kicking ass again, but the entire course of the war would be so radically different that it becomes a matter of speculation.

                >And finally, even if we agree the US fleet would be unable to act for weeks, every major action the Allies fought in those days was a crushing defeat. What changes?
                The timetables. We would've suffered those defeats in 44/45 instead of 42/43. Japan could well have isolated Australia in that time and robbed us of an in-theater ally. Perhaps the Wolf Packs would've become a more pressing concern and US attention shifted to the Atlantic. Maybe the Coral Sea and Midway play out differently.

                Like I said: speculation.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Like I said: speculation
                And that's why I can't really consider it a "massive mistake", you have to keep going down the line and presuming things happen as close to reality to avoid going full althistory. At the same time I could propose another possibility: Japanese aviators suffer heavier casualties during the follow-up attack and that loss of pilots degrades Japanese carriers effectiveness, leading to the early loss of Shokaku at Coral Sea and the survival of Lexington. Midway then becomes a 4v4. Or maybe Yamamoto knows his carriers aren't as good anymore and sends 4 of them to Coral Sea, thus leading to a total US defeat.

                Point being, once you get past immediate impact things become very uncertain, very quickly.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                And the immediate impact of an oil drought in the pacific plays exclusively to the Japanese. There's no way to spin "the US completely loses force projection in an entire hemisphere, even just for a few days" as anything but bad.

                I guess you can't necessarily qualify it as a "massive" mistake, but it's easy to see the kind of impact the loss of the oil depot *could* have had.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                The Japanese were already having logistical issues maintaining what they captured historically. Even if Japan manages to draw the war out longer as soon as the issues with the mk14 are fixed they’ll begin to collapse and starve by late 1945, and that’s if they don’t go full moron and push even farther beyond their means.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >hurr burning some oil would destroy the USN
                >US is the world's #1 oil producer
                It would've taken like a week to build ersatz oil storage and pump some oil for the PacFleet. Stop being moronic.
                Also oil doesn't explode if someone looks at it funny like in the movies. You can just put out the fire and save most of the remaining oil.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >hurr hurr, just build another fuel storage yard and magically pump 250 million gallons of oil the 2,600 miles from the mainland, all while being pestered by aircraft and submarines

                You are drastically underestimating the difficulty of what you've just suggested.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >A real measure of the impact of the destruction of the tanks and fuel would be how long it would have taken to restore the damage.
                >Oil tanks are simple constructs—a steel shell, a floating top, and a roof. The shell was essentially shaped sheet metal, something easily handled by the shipyard. It would have taken about 5,000 tons of steel to reconstruct the damaged or destroyed tanks. That amount of metal could have been provided by one cargo shipment from the West Coast. The consequences might have been on the order of imposing a two-month delay in the construction of two destroyers.

                >Replacing the fuel stockpile would require allocating sufficient tankers to provide the cargo lift needed. The table shows the number of tankers that would have to be assigned to the West Coast–Pearl Harbor run to replace the lost stockpile in the stated time.
                >At the end of 1941 there were about 120 tankers under US registry, with another 80 in Allied service under Panamanian registry and other flags of convenience. Ships were there—it was a matter of which tasks had the highest priority.
                >On December 8th, 1941, tankers could have been diverted to the Pacific without disrupting the war effort. Over the following January, February, and March, 43 tankers were sunk along the American eastern seaboard, the Caribbean, and in the Gulf of Mexico by U-boats. Many of these ships were engaged in the US domestic trade delivering oil to cities in the northeast. Even with the loss of these ships to the Germans’ Operation Drumbeat, and dozens more in the following months, the American European war effort in 1942 was not hampered by fuel shortages. This indicates that some fraction of these 43 lost tankers could have been diverted to the Pacific in December 1941 without affecting the course of the war.
                Also:
                >while being pestered by aircraft and submarines
                Jap subs were useless in hunting merchants, the only aircraft near Pearl Harbor were flying boats ill-suited to attack

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >hurr hurr, just build another fuel storage yard and magically pump 250 million gallons of oil the 2,600 miles from the mainland, all while being pestered by aircraft and submarines

                You are drastically underestimating the difficulty of what you've just suggested.

                also
                >Also oil doesn't explode if someone looks at it funny like in the movies. You can just put out the fire and save most of the remaining oil.

                It's weird that they don't do that now when oil tanks catch fire and explode. You should go tell the DC teams and fire fighters how stupid they are for not just putting out the fire and saving all the oil!

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                forgot my link
                https://www.kristv.com/news/local-news/lightning-strike-causes-durango-resources-to-lose-oil-tanks-to-explosion

  10. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    I hate the photo colorizing trend.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      It sucks. Adds information that wasn't there before.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Pretty sure Pearl Harbor was colorized in 1941.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      What, just because some zoomers made some spongebomb memes about it? Frick off, it's incredible to see these things closer to reality.

      So what did Russia lose today?

      >LALALALALALAAAA! i can't hear you! stop noticing things

      That bad huh?

      What the frick is wrong with you?

      >that they caught their enemy unawares
      if that's what you want to believe

      moronic /misc/Black person. Other anons already shut you down but it isn't wrong that the US knew AN attack was imminent...somewhere. Most knew the Philippines would come under attack (which it did), but few even imagined or conceived the idea that the IJN would sail so far as to attack the Pacific Fleet at anchor. Pearl Harbor was truly a surprise attack, but the beginning of the war as a whole with Imperial Japan wasn't.

  11. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Multiple failures along the chain of command and in the administration.
    SIGINT knew in advance but could not get to the people making decisions in time.
    Several people noticed in advance as well, but were ignored.
    The whole thing should have ended with far more people losing their careers.

  12. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >sneak up on you
    They didnt
    American public opion about the war was to keep being NEUTRAL
    So they needed a "false flag" to change it. They let the nips to do it. They even ignored several reports about the fleet going around.
    Literally the same as USS Maine
    Literally the same as 9/11 and pentagon attack

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >was keep being neutral
      except for the fact public opinion would support start a war with japan if they took over additional euro colonies in the pacific, and this still doesn't answer the question of why would they need to let their fleet get destroyed when the mere fact Japan was attacking Hawaii would be enough to convince the public for war, especially when Japan also attacked several other US bases in the Pacific

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This.
      Sleepy American needs to be reminded, he has wars to fight for his overlords.

  13. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Is this the most embarrassing moment in US military history?
    i wish. pearl harbor was one of those battles where it looks worse on paper than it was in reality. most of the capital ships sunk in harbor were salvaged and fought in the war anyway, and the aircraft carriers weren't scratched because they weren't even there at the time of the attack.

    ball's bluff is my vote for most embarassing moment, but im not really sure that counts considering it's american v american

  14. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Literally battles were lost by the Japanese due to poor Naval reconnaissance and other intelligence failures. They didn't have satellites back then and way less bases around the world.

    ?t=357

  15. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    The CSS Virginia getting any further than three meters out of port is the greatest embarrassment

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah but that was a casemate ironclad so it wasn't like anything was going to stop it at three meters out.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        With how she was built, the fricking water could've taken her down.

        But, in more seriousness, the USS Monitor was late for the job of taking it down in port, leading to the Confederate Shitbox Barnroofmobile inflicting the worst loss in US Naval history until WW2

        This piece of shit had a turning circle of a mile, misapplied armour, and a God damn ram, and they had like 6 MONTHS WARNING.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >a God damn ram,
          That's not really a fault against her. Plenty of rammings happened during the civil war and rams were common on European ships of the era.

  16. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Is this the most embarrassing moment in US military history?
    No this is.

  17. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Presented without comment

  18. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    It is not mainline (but not mainstream) history that everyone at the top knew that the attack was going to happen but they let it happen because Americans were only semi-moronic at the time and did not wanted to enter the war.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Stop being moronic.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Roosevelt was a Trumpian president back then, a bona fide moron

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This point is incredibly moronic and people have already pointed out the flaws in the logic in this thread. To make this kind of point you need a total lack of understanding of history and to have an iq lower than the average Congolese

  19. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    There are a bunch of morons claiming it's all a big conspiracy to get the US into the war. Which is beyond stupid

  20. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    People noticed anon.
    But it was allowed to happen by higher ups.
    One you notice who let's things happen you start to see a pattern between the culprits, politicians and the military industrial complex.
    People die so others can make money.

    Look up the uss Liberty for another example

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >bomb Liberty
      >???
      >profit
      Meds.

  21. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    The pacific is fricking huge, no matter how big you think it is, it's bigger than that. That's how.

  22. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Flat Earthers BTFO!!!

Leave a Reply to Anonymous Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *