I have watched so many cop vids of a cop mag dumping a criminal with 17+ shots and the criminal still springing up off the ground wounded but still moving. Just how tough are our bodies in regards to bullets hitting us? I know shot placement matters but getting shot 17+ times and still getting up? What the frick? Is it literally just drugs doing this? Like if a human doesn't get shot in the head, heart or spine, do bullets just not deal enough damage otherwise? We are vulnerable to bleeding out though aren't we? We have arteries everywhere but how is it that 17+ shots could ventilate someone and they still get up?
Adrenaline, that dude who gets shot 17 times with hollow points in the chest is likely going to go run into some dudes backyard and bleed out.
>Like if a human doesn't get shot in the head, heart or spine, do bullets just not deal enough damage otherwise?
Yes and no. For an immediate stop that's the only 100% sure fire way. The two greatest factors are physiological and psychological. Psychological stops are obviously unreliable as everyone's different and can have different states of mind when in a fight. Rifle rounds can do serious enough damage that a good shot to the chest is likely to effect the heart or spine in some way
Which pistol round probably the best caliber for self defense? Is it a good idea to just use whatever caliber cops use? It seems like 9mm just doesn't keep crack heads and shit down but I think cops use 9mm just purely for capacity because they may get into extended gun fights with enemies.
1) it should meet FBI penetration standards (i.e. go all the way through to hit something instead of stop short if they're wearing a leather jacket or have their arms in the way)
2) it should have as many shots as possible so your moronic non-competition-shooter, non-specops, non-divinely-blessed-boomer ass can spam the RNG as much as possible
That's it. 9mm is common and popular because it's old and meets both requirements.
Pretty much what he said. Compared to rifles all common service caliber pistols suck equally, 9mm has the least recoil, greatest capacity, and is the cheapest to shoot.
10mm
>do bullets just not deal enough damage otherwise
Pistol bullets don't - they're basically a knife-stab at a distance. It's spamming a RNG and either hit the CNS or hit an artery and hope they bleed out before they can return the favor.
Doing "damage" in the video-game sense of breaking more and more shit until its over is reserved for rifles and shotguns.
drugs
Why don't people on marijuana spring back up after being shot by a hail of 9mm like crack heads and fentanyl fiends hop back up?
Weed is a supressant, while crack is a powerful stimulant. Fentanyl is a powerful painkiller.
I don't own any firearms so I wouldn't know, im not a little b***h i use a blade like a real man, im also trans btw idk if that matters.
If you aren't wielding a medieval zweihander, stop talking.
Depends on the state of mind. If you're calm and aren't suspecting a shot, a .22 will drop you like a sack of potatoes. If you have a frickton of adrenaline pumping through your veins, like during a firefight, you could easily tank a shot or two of 7.62 NATO center mass. If you're a pissed off smackhead hood rat, a magdump of 9mm center mass is a grazing wound.
The reason 9mm is so popular is it has light recoil and high capacity allowing for more accurate follow up shots. You get more chances to hit the vital areas and its easier to do so. Plus the penetration and FBI standards like other anons mentioned. Its sort of the best middle ground between capacity, recoil, size of the projectile, and penetration.
If you dont know what you're talking about, don't post an answer. Just lurk.
>How resilient is the human body to firearms?
I guy did a study asking just that question. Well, his question was how much stopping power do various guns have?
Pistols stop a determined attacker 33% of the time. AR15s and 12 guage shotguns were like 50% of the time.
I don't remember the details, it's been a while. You can look it up.
IIRC, the guy looked at over 100,000 cases.
It's just matters where it hits. If a single one of them hits crucial arteries, you're most likely dead. Head = death, neck = death, heart/chest = death
A friend of mines father was a cop and he would tell a story about a dude who got shot in the heart and was still fighting the officers for a good 20 seconds after the fact.
A bullet to the central nervous system will stop an attacker. Head or spine will kill or paralyze respectively. Adrenaline does crazy things to a person, that's how they're still in the fight after taking so much damage. The human body is easy to damage, but tough to kill. You can lose about 40 percent of your blood before you bleed to death.
One of my biggest fears is bleeding out. Its why I don't think I would ever get close to someone wielding a knife. Seems too easy to just get stabbed in your jugular and be fricked. How do you even stop bleeding if you are hit in a critical spot like that?
I carry a first aid kit at all times that is bleed-oriented. If you get your jugular cut you only have about 30 seconds before the oxygen stops reaching your brain. Even in an ER operating room your chances of living are near zero. I would spend that 30 seconds reflecting on life, because there isn't much else you can do.
It's closer to 89% in the ER.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2776368/
https://www.jems.com/operations/rescue-vehicle-extrication/straight-jugular/
That first case study didn't have a penetration to the arteries, but I did find this;
The usual complications of penetrating neck injury are vascular trauma in 25%, with mortality rates approaching 50%.
Which is stunning. I'm amazed that with vascular damage the mortality rate in-hospital is only 50 percent. Thank your local surgeon, that shit is impressive.
Damn, why is the human body designed so fricking moronicly. Why is it that getting your fricking jugular hit will likely kill you given that our necks are so unprotected? There is no bone around the jugular, hardly any muscle also. What the frick protects our jugg?
Do you want to be able to turn your head fast enough and see that lion chasing you? Bone around the neck, like a ribcage sounds nice, but you would be limited, and your pelvic bowl is still open and full of soft tissue to be eviscerated. You sound like you wish you evolved to be a turtle.
I mean, having some sort of GOOD defense would be nice as a human. Why the frick is our body so soft anyway? We don't have any fricking scales etc. I like being human but damn are we vulnerable. Bones aren't even that good protection wise, muscle is also trash.
We were made to out-stamina prey. We are not made for chasing things, and killing them, even though it is fun. We are made to hide in trees, and ambush. Or, slowly walk towards a creature and follow until they get exhausted. We also have opposable thumbs, larger skull cavity, capacity to have large social circles, and reproduce inside the body quickly. We are the apex, just in our own field. Don't act like a lion to be offensive, act like a human, and use human tactics and you will win. Also, the human femur is stronger pound for pound than concrete, we have muscles that connect appendages, and backup muscles to move them aswell. Literally all of what I am saying is highschool literature. And this thread is about shooting people. Jesus.
Because we're endurance pack hunters and need our skin and lack of fur and bodies to facilitate that. We're not some variety of armored prey animal
We put all our evolution points into opposable thumbs and grey matter.
Really, though, we just didn't need any more protection in the wild or we would've adapted. Like anon (
) said, we hunted by exhausting our prey by chasing them until they dropped. In a decent sized group we have no predators to evolve defences for.
I think it is neat to look at one of closest ancestors, bonobos.
We put points into being able to stand up and they put points into being able to reach out.
Samegay here. Something else I forgot to say, we have foward facing eyes which are perfect for focusing at medium to semi-cloze distances, which is usually what ancient hunting was done at, ears that are concave for listening at distances. There is so much shit we are better at in every single category, and you want scales.
>scale gays blown the frick out.
🙂
We're utility masters. We traded integrated weapons and armor for pointy sticks and fire.
Frick, the biggest distinction between us and our closest biological relatives is that fire, cooking, allowed us to cut the length of our digestive systems down by 60% and provided a calorie boost large enough to develop our brains.
We outsource our defensive and offensive abilities to our tools, since in that way we can focus our energy on things like thermal regulation and processing capacity.
Humans are living proof that skill points always trump ability scores.
>Why the frick is our body so soft anyway?
I guess it's the same reason why the hermit crabs are much more fragile than the regular crabs - disposable external armor removed the evolutionary need for becoming more robust
why waste energy growing fur or thick leather for a rare defensive use case, when you can skin another animal and use the armor only when you need to?
Same thing with our weaponry. A pointy stick allows you to engage outside your opponent's reach and avoid retaliation, and if it's damaged or blunted, you can just find new stick. No need to waste energy making powerful weapons, you can just focus on muscle power itself and the brain to make your tools.
Protek yo Neck, homie
>Fr though, if anything, we can survive too much. All warm blooded animals with a circulatory system have the same "weak spot".
Sounds like you wanna be a bug.
I don't know how people still carry revolvers then knowing that a drugged up person can just eat a hail of 9mm. I know .357 is like double the force of a 9mm but are most handgun calibers fairly the same in regards to stopping power?
They can eat a poorly ppaced hail of 9mm. 6 well placed shots can drop them
The average surface area of an adult male is about 2 meters squared. So the amount facing you at any given time is about 1 meter squared; that's 1 million millimeters squared. 18 9mm bullets, even assuming they're hollow points that double their diameter; have a collective surface area of about 1,000 milimeters. At most you're going to be hitting 0.1% of the person.
You need to use a .45
.45 kills the soul, Anon.
I've seen very inconsistent videos so I'll just say it's down to practice and skill of the shooter. I've seen a cop magdump a guy with 9mm and he didn't drop until the last bullet. But I've also seen scrawny niglet robbers go immediately limp from 2 shots.
It varies greatly. Many factors such as drugs, adrenaline or just pure will power.
I recall a police report where an officer fired on a suspect with 12g slug. Shot went through his vehicle and through him. The suspect hopped out and the cops could see daylight through him. He ran about 100ft before just pancaking.
Theres weird cases like that. This video is more representitive of shotgun effectiveness in my experience, which is seeing like two people killed by shotguns, not counting suicides
>I have watched so many cop vids of a cop mag dumping a criminal with 17+ shots and the criminal still springing up off the ground wounded but still moving. Just how tough are our bodies in regards to bullets hitting us?
Assuming we're taking about service handguns or larger, not at ALL.
>I know shot placement matters but getting shot 17+ times and still getting up? What the frick? Is it literally just drugs doing this?
Not JUST drugs, but they often play a part. On top of the adrenaline that everyone has, drugs like meth, cocaine and PCP can allow humans to push through trauma that would otherwise incapacitate them.
>Like if a human doesn't get shot in the head, heart or spine, do bullets just not deal enough damage otherwise?
If you don't hit the CNS then someone can generally survive the immediate effects of getting shot for at least a very short period, yeah. The blood generally has enough dissolved oxygen in it to allow a person to function for 20-30 seconds before they black out. In a vacuum, getting shot with something in the torso is generally a death sentence sooner or later due to things like blood loss, infection, clots, etc. while limbs and extremities have more wiggle room.. However, most of the world has has gotten very good at treating severe trauma and in the places where someone is most likely to get shot medical facilities often specialize in GSWs.
>We are vulnerable to bleeding out though aren't we?
Very.
>We have arteries everywhere but how is it that 17+ shots could ventilate someone and they still get up?
But for how long? Assuming a clean through-and-through, even if someone doesn't drop like a sack of potatoes the odds of them being incapacitated and bleeding to death within the next couple of minutes or so is pretty high. Just look at that goober who got dropped in that mall in Indiana; he got shot eight times and still managed to stagger off before bleeding out.
Will and endorphines
>I know shot placement matters but
>but
There is no but. Shot placement matters, the end.