>Ukraine is still net negative
So was Vietnam. So was Afghanistan. Wars of attrition don’t tend to work out for the invading force, especially when they’re facing net negative losses as well.
vietnam and afghanistan have absolutely nothing to do with the current massive conventional war in eastern europe. the tactics are different, equipment different, cultures different, terrain. whatever. but it sounds cool to say "past war is like new war hahaaa" so i get it
He's right though, simply killing enough of the enemy is no kind of strategy at all
The Americans believed this and lost to Vietnam, and America. The russians believed it and they haven't been farther from Kyiv in nearly an entire year
An attacker winning a stalemate war by attrition would be really historically unusual. If they were consistently taking enough loot to pay for the war it might work, but Russia isn't.
this situation is so unique there isnt really enough historical precedence to draw a conclusion. like iran iraq is similar but ukraine and russia are so different demographically/economically while iraq and iran were much similar. am i missing a war here?
kinda like korea maybe?
mecanised armies.
human waves and trenches, fortified positions. Movement wars and position warfare alternate.
1 year ago
Anonymous
yeah korea works i guess. probably same result too dmz around the same staring positions or something. but even still the comp doesnt work very well on the economic front
>this situation is so unique
It's literally exactly the same as every other bungled Russian invasion in the last 200 years. The only time Russia didn't catastrophically frick up an invasion was when the U.S. was bankrolling them. If you get your history from books intead of tiktok it's obvious.
history doesn't repeat itself like everyone thinks it does. this line of thinking is why the germans were so sure the ussr would collapse and exactly why putin thought ukraine would crumble in days. this war is the first of its kind and cant be solved with equating the russian federation to the russian empire
It's literally exactly the same as every other bungled Russian invasion in the last 200 years. The only time Russia didn't catastrophically frick up an invasion was when the U.S. was bankrolling them. If you get your history from books intead of tiktok it's obvious.
Just think, If Russia somehow gets its shit together, if they somehow win, if they manage to occupy Ukraine despite all the arms and sanctions and so on.
Then Afghanistan or Vietnam style occupation is what they can look forward to.
This, even if Russia manages to annex donbabwe and luhansk then they’ll become massive money pits that drain it of money, soldiers and equipment for the foreseeable future
I get what you mean, but the reality is neither side has been taking that many prisoners, and the surprise rush at the start, a lot of Ukrainian military and civilians were captured, so they have a lot to trade back for.
They still give them back. Like they fricked the Wagnerite who professed his loyalty to Okraina, then they gave him back where he promptly got 'hammered'.
>Like they fricked the Wagnerite who professed his loyalty to Okraina
He fricked himself. He failed the lie detector test trying to join the Russian legion, then said nothing when he was told he was going to be exchanged. He honestly thought he'd get a pat on the back for trying to 'infiltrate' the legion after the video where he shit-talked wagner.
Do we have actual numbers or at least estimates of how many POWs there are?
I expect the rate has declined significantly lately - artillery doesn't take prisoners.
Do you think i could buy one?
Probably not from the army, but there are still independant volunteer battalions. And they need money for drones, optics, etc as they are mostly equiped by themselves and through donations or deals with other units.
How much do you think i could try to offer for a russian pow, between 20 and 30 yo, not wounded, brougth to the border with Poland?
>2 grand
oO Really?!
I though i would offer 30k euros + whatever ask the smugglers on the polish border. I know there’s a bunch of them, and polish boder guards look the other way, as there are thousands of ukrainian males that need smugglers to leave the country.
You think a vatnik is that cheap? Basically the price of a drone.
I don't think it would be that cheap really. Maybe an untradable POW that Russia won't trade back, but any normally prisoner is basically worth the cost of a Ukrainian in a prisoner transfer, so probably a lot more in those cases.
i wouldn't be surprised if they're executing a lot of them. i support ukraine because it means russia getting fricked over but i will not be shocked if we find out ukraine was doing some shonky shit.
>i wouldn't be surprised if they're executing a lot of them
I would. Ukraine has more incentives to keep them alive. >bargaining chips for their own POWs >political optics for the west who consider things like the Geneva conventions nonnegotiable >the more visibly well treated POWs they have on camera the more Russians are willing to surrender over fighting to death
Russia exchanged one of the mayors the FSB kidnapped for 4 pows.
I saw the exchange of a firefighter from Mariupol that got deported to Russia.
Russia trades russian pows for ukrainian civilians. That’s how shitty they are.
Yeah, and Okraina traded an opposition politician as well.
Not to mention there were numerous times in the past where DNR or LNR complained the piggers were traiding bums and drunks off the street.
While all of that is true, you can't expect soldiers on the frontline to always act rational and weigh the overall pros and cons of their actions. If they're fricking pissed at the enemy and get their hands on one, he might have a bad time. Shit happens in every war.
I've been wondering this myself, I really wouldn't trust a vatnig with anything remotely important (like city work) or of public hygiene (like cooking) but then I can't just keep feeding him for nothing.
https://www.ft.com/content/a544df03-1f0e-4877-8a33-f6ef981b67fc
apparently a wagner ”commander” fled last friday to norway after the mercs tried to force him to extend his contract after he finished his time (including 4 months in ukraine). Apparently not a former inmate, and he claimed to be in the same unit as the guy that got hammered.
I wish that guy would make an interview with medias, he’s got to have a nice insight about Wagner inner workings.
Trading them back as others have said, but if they ever do manage to have more captures than the Russians have, I think pressing them into service might be a smart idea. Giving them better equipment, better food, and not raping them is probably enough to secure their loyalty as it is. If the end of that service comes with citizenship then they'd be even more enticed into it as they don't need to get their head smacked in with a hammer after the war's end.
That's what the Free Russia Legion is for, but it takes quite a bit of vetting. It's volunteer only and afaik pressing random POWs into service would be a war crime anyway.
A lot are also refusing to go back to Russia and spend their day hammering pallets into shape. Its like alien tech to them so everyone wins. The sun shines down, the Odessan insects buzz and there is peace in the air, just that damn hammering sounds
I wouldn't go back too if I deserted in Ukraine, the Russians would prob put you into a penal battalion when you return
The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European but an Asiatic and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinaman or a Japanese and, from what I’ve seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other amiable characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of a b***h, a barbarian, and a chronic drunk.
Murder. According to official stats hohols only have 1000 prisoners so they keep dissappearing somewhere. Of course we have plenty of evidence of them massacring pows
Literally give them back for trade. Ukraine is still net negative since the start of the war where the Russians took Mariupol.
>Ukraine is still net negative
So was Vietnam. So was Afghanistan. Wars of attrition don’t tend to work out for the invading force, especially when they’re facing net negative losses as well.
vietnam and afghanistan have absolutely nothing to do with the current massive conventional war in eastern europe. the tactics are different, equipment different, cultures different, terrain. whatever. but it sounds cool to say "past war is like new war hahaaa" so i get it
He's right though, simply killing enough of the enemy is no kind of strategy at all
The Americans believed this and lost to Vietnam, and America. The russians believed it and they haven't been farther from Kyiv in nearly an entire year
this would be true if ukrainians were undertaking an insurgency behind the lines but they aren't with some exceptions
>insurgency behind the lines
Those power stations and textile factories and military institutes in russia aren't just blowing up by themselves
They’ve been assassinating collaborators and ambushing vatnik soldiers in occupied terrorism this entire time dude
An attacker winning a stalemate war by attrition would be really historically unusual. If they were consistently taking enough loot to pay for the war it might work, but Russia isn't.
this situation is so unique there isnt really enough historical precedence to draw a conclusion. like iran iraq is similar but ukraine and russia are so different demographically/economically while iraq and iran were much similar. am i missing a war here?
kinda like korea maybe?
mecanised armies.
human waves and trenches, fortified positions. Movement wars and position warfare alternate.
yeah korea works i guess. probably same result too dmz around the same staring positions or something. but even still the comp doesnt work very well on the economic front
history doesn't repeat itself like everyone thinks it does. this line of thinking is why the germans were so sure the ussr would collapse and exactly why putin thought ukraine would crumble in days. this war is the first of its kind and cant be solved with equating the russian federation to the russian empire
>this situation is so unique
It's literally exactly the same as every other bungled Russian invasion in the last 200 years. The only time Russia didn't catastrophically frick up an invasion was when the U.S. was bankrolling them. If you get your history from books intead of tiktok it's obvious.
Just think, If Russia somehow gets its shit together, if they somehow win, if they manage to occupy Ukraine despite all the arms and sanctions and so on.
Then Afghanistan or Vietnam style occupation is what they can look forward to.
This, even if Russia manages to annex donbabwe and luhansk then they’ll become massive money pits that drain it of money, soldiers and equipment for the foreseeable future
I get what you mean, but the reality is neither side has been taking that many prisoners, and the surprise rush at the start, a lot of Ukrainian military and civilians were captured, so they have a lot to trade back for.
they grind them up into lunchmeat that is sold to Germans
no, can not be dickhead. I would have tasted it, meat tastes like it always does here. doesn't taste like russian.
t. German meat eater
It's easy when a great deal of them would rather no go back to Russia
They still give them back. Like they fricked the Wagnerite who professed his loyalty to Okraina, then they gave him back where he promptly got 'hammered'.
>Like they fricked the Wagnerite who professed his loyalty to Okraina
He fricked himself. He failed the lie detector test trying to join the Russian legion, then said nothing when he was told he was going to be exchanged. He honestly thought he'd get a pat on the back for trying to 'infiltrate' the legion after the video where he shit-talked wagner.
Wagner kidnapped his family, that dude's choice was getting hammered or watching his family get hammered. Family probably got killed/raped anyway btw.
ship to Western black sites for interrogation and disposal or reprogramming
Do we have actual numbers or at least estimates of how many POWs there are?
I expect the rate has declined significantly lately - artillery doesn't take prisoners.
>How does Ukraine handle the sheer amount of Russian POWs
they've been concentrated into camps
surprise buttsex
Do you think i could buy one?
Probably not from the army, but there are still independant volunteer battalions. And they need money for drones, optics, etc as they are mostly equiped by themselves and through donations or deals with other units.
How much do you think i could try to offer for a russian pow, between 20 and 30 yo, not wounded, brougth to the border with Poland?
Probably about 2 grand with the right connections.
Can't promise good teeth or any real work ethic. Anus comes preused, if you care.
>2 grand
oO Really?!
I though i would offer 30k euros + whatever ask the smugglers on the polish border. I know there’s a bunch of them, and polish boder guards look the other way, as there are thousands of ukrainian males that need smugglers to leave the country.
You think a vatnik is that cheap? Basically the price of a drone.
>30k
Even russia doesn't think a Russian soldier is worth 30k. Maybe VDV. Let alone Wagner troops.
I don't think it would be that cheap really. Maybe an untradable POW that Russia won't trade back, but any normally prisoner is basically worth the cost of a Ukrainian in a prisoner transfer, so probably a lot more in those cases.
moron he wants to smuggle them to make profit not to make them sex slaves
We don't talk about it
i wouldn't be surprised if they're executing a lot of them. i support ukraine because it means russia getting fricked over but i will not be shocked if we find out ukraine was doing some shonky shit.
theyre committing warcrimes that are being covered up by western media and /k/ jannies.
of course anyone with a three digit iq could've guessed this. if the nazi skull badges didn't give it away.
Me neither, although it's anyone's guess what is organic cynicism and what is concern trolling and shills.
>i wouldn't be surprised if they're executing a lot of them
I would. Ukraine has more incentives to keep them alive.
>bargaining chips for their own POWs
>political optics for the west who consider things like the Geneva conventions nonnegotiable
>the more visibly well treated POWs they have on camera the more Russians are willing to surrender over fighting to death
>bargaining chips for their own POWs
It’s worse than that, Ukraine exchange russian pows for their own civilians kidnaped to Russia.
Well, pigger soldiers are citizens of Okraina, I'll give you that much.
Russia exchanged one of the mayors the FSB kidnapped for 4 pows.
I saw the exchange of a firefighter from Mariupol that got deported to Russia.
Russia trades russian pows for ukrainian civilians. That’s how shitty they are.
Yeah, and Okraina traded an opposition politician as well.
Not to mention there were numerous times in the past where DNR or LNR complained the piggers were traiding bums and drunks off the street.
While all of that is true, you can't expect soldiers on the frontline to always act rational and weigh the overall pros and cons of their actions. If they're fricking pissed at the enemy and get their hands on one, he might have a bad time. Shit happens in every war.
Soldiers know shit gets out really easily these days, and Ukraine knows they need to keep westerners on board.
Making them work with things they've never seen before
Pvt Pyle?
>dat face
I've been wondering this myself, I really wouldn't trust a vatnig with anything remotely important (like city work) or of public hygiene (like cooking) but then I can't just keep feeding him for nothing.
>POWs
he doesn't know
https://www.ft.com/content/a544df03-1f0e-4877-8a33-f6ef981b67fc
apparently a wagner ”commander” fled last friday to norway after the mercs tried to force him to extend his contract after he finished his time (including 4 months in ukraine). Apparently not a former inmate, and he claimed to be in the same unit as the guy that got hammered.
I wish that guy would make an interview with medias, he’s got to have a nice insight about Wagner inner workings.
Blond, smooth skin, 26 yo. Already in the EU.
I can offer 20 grands for him.
>insight about Wagner inner workings
yeah nah
What about blue? I'd always wondered what the colors of the Russian flag represented
Syphilis
Blue balls
Tuberculosis,the blue ribbon is for tuberculosis
I'm not joking.
Frick me forgot, jannies fricking up my jokes!
>Onions Green, it's made of Russians
>this level of cope
Is there some reason why Ukraine shills physically can not sound intelligent?
>using can not instead of cannot or can't
Good morning sir!
Do you think Poland would handle it for Ukraine? They have some real estate that hasn't been used in a while.
Trading them back as others have said, but if they ever do manage to have more captures than the Russians have, I think pressing them into service might be a smart idea. Giving them better equipment, better food, and not raping them is probably enough to secure their loyalty as it is. If the end of that service comes with citizenship then they'd be even more enticed into it as they don't need to get their head smacked in with a hammer after the war's end.
That's what the Free Russia Legion is for, but it takes quite a bit of vetting. It's volunteer only and afaik pressing random POWs into service would be a war crime anyway.
A lot are also refusing to go back to Russia and spend their day hammering pallets into shape. Its like alien tech to them so everyone wins. The sun shines down, the Odessan insects buzz and there is peace in the air, just that damn hammering sounds
I wouldn't go back too if I deserted in Ukraine, the Russians would prob put you into a penal battalion when you return
PKM
The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European but an Asiatic and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinaman or a Japanese and, from what I’ve seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other amiable characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of a b***h, a barbarian, and a chronic drunk.
Imagine the smell
Murder. According to official stats hohols only have 1000 prisoners so they keep dissappearing somewhere. Of course we have plenty of evidence of them massacring pows