i don't blame for not reading any of the books other than the first one, but tl;dr the worms are organic terra(dune)forming equipment, dune becomes a sea eventually cause the core is full of water still, the sea worms poop Hispanice so strong it kills you instead of being useful.
His 'plan' was to create a giant Karenesque dystopia scarred into human racial memory so humanity would rebel into a million splinter groups the moment he died and colonize the entire universe.
The more I hear about the later Dune books, the more retarded they sound. I'm glad the local library only had the first few when I was a kid.
I have, a couple of times. It's pretty decent but massively overrated and not in a 'Seinfeld isn't funny' way, since it wasn't the first novel to comment on social engineering through religion. The worms and Dune are hugely lame to me because they basically run on magic. It's dirkas in space with wormshit instead of oil.
Some dudes mine it at the poles. Apparently the only reason it's not just brought in from offworld is because the Spacing Guild charges too much for importing the stuff to be a profitable venture.
>that they have been collecting for a long time
I never understood this. They must have taken the water from somewhere else so the rest of the planet is even drier for this. Not a drop of additional water was generated by the Fremen, like by having Spacing Guild haul in some ice asteroids and drop them into the atmosphere.
The planet has been occupied for Hispanice mining for a long fucking time. Unless they are bottling up all their liquid waste and sending off world where do you think its going? People have to drink somehow in Arrakeen and not all of them are fremen. So water is making its way to the planet via imports and, over time, its staying there in reservoirs hidden all over the planet.
Dune used to have oceans. There was an ecological catastrophe at some point in the past, but the water is still there, just encysted and buried. The Fremen are capturing what leaks to the surface and into the atmosphere as vapour.
The ecological catastrophe was sandworms. Sand trout gulp water by the gallon and absorb it like crazy. Dune is made by the sandworms and later Leto II restores the water to Arrakis by trapping the sandworms and terraforming.
I honestly never read Dune, but don't they have orbital strike abilities? Why not just rain hell down from orbit?
In Dune all interplanetary travel is non military and done via the Navigators Guild (string bean people cause they spend so long in space with less gravity). The Navigators Guild has full control over what they transport (although Emperors are known to coerce them) and operate independent of everyone. To have orbital strike capabilities you must be the master of the Planet you are on. Also due to the Bulterian Jihad (Robots vs Humanity: Humanity: 1 - Robots: Fucked on) many things like an orbital platform would be hard to maintain as they would require human input and management or else run the risk of upsetting the rules against thinking machines. By the point of Dune this is well settled dogma so there is a large amount of technology that is fundamentally limited by traditions and society, as well as governmental agreements for stability.
Don't they have tiny juvenile captive worms that they use for this? Or do they go out into the desert and drag one of the big boys back home? I thought it was the former but it's been a hot minute since I've read the book
It's the juveniles, but you could kill a big one the same way; also in the books it says the worms might die from infection after the fremen mess with their scals when riding
Build a mine consisting of a shield and a laser. Build several of them, actually, because you never quite know what will happen when a laser hits a shield.
Literally just drop vibrating bombs in the sand, its so easy
Vibrating high yield mines. Maybe nuclear mines. Worm will eat them - > worm kablooey!
>Bunker penetrator?
It would just put a small hole through him. In the books they say it takes multiple spaced out nuclear bombs to kill a worm. I think the implication is they're absurdly good at healing and will reform or some shit.
>I think the implication is they're absurdly good at healing and will reform or some shit.
iirc they have this weird anatomy where they are in fact a colony of smaller organisms rather than a one single being, so simply destroying just one part of the worm probably wouldn't kill the other.
Some worms are so adept at healing themselves that if you cut the body in half, sometimes they'll grow back the other portion and you'll end up with two of them.
>not watching the original dune that was clearly written while everyone was high as hell with sting starring as a b grade bad guy and cpt Picard playing gurney….
Anon you do know the slow knife penetrates don’t you?
Sure they had wierd religious practices but in terms of things like architecture, how people talked, the way technology was described, I was surprised how grounded the setting came across as in the book.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I think that's possibly because everything was run by people rather than sci fi computer magic
There are labourers, pilots, miners, guards, politicians, mystics, soldiers, and leaders, and they are all people
Having the butlerian jihad in their history was a stroke of genius really, it forced the universe to run on people, which is infinitely more interesting than a universe run by computers and machinery
https://i.imgur.com/1uRKVEf.jpg
>not watching the original dune that was clearly written while everyone was high as hell with sting starring as a b grade bad guy and cpt Picard playing gurney….
Anon you do know the slow knife penetrates don’t you?
I rewatched this recently and it really is awful, just rubbish, no wonder Lynch hated it
It’s the closest you can get to being on drugs without actually being on drugs..
the fan edit is pretty great. the story of the original movie is worse than Dunc but they nailed the exotic, trippy world design.
Somehow it holds up aesthetically to me.. or at least looks great for looking so damn weird.. the new dune had stunning visuals, but somehow I just expect dune in my head to look… oddly shittier than they show.
The bit where he says “poison” and “I will bend like a reed” are only heard in is head and are narration… which is confusing if you didn’t see it used through the rest of the movie. Be prepared for eyebrows.
It's just blocked in your country, the video is still up. It's an official upload, btw, it can't be copyright struck. It's just only official in certain countries.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Funnily enough when I searched Dune 1984, it came up with the entire movie on youtube.
Quite strange.
Ironically this thinking but “g” rated for the partying is why every other year or so we get an Adam Sandler movie that is complete shit but stars half the same people as a previous one and gets filmed on location in the tropics for 2 months…
>Hunter in Dune
The world couldn't handle kino of that level. Put him in Jodo's Dune, keep Dali as the Emperor, and actually make the whole thing. Unimaginable kino.
Jodorwoski wanted Salvador Dali as the emperor, wanted it to be 12 hours long, and prettuly much tigermom abused his son to prepare him to play Paul. Never getting that version of Dune is a crime against humanity. Every good bit of the Lynch Dune came out of Jodorowski's vision 🙁
dank aesthetics, although the pacing and character arc was a bit rushed,
I like the Tv mini series best of all, low budget acting and costume design r fun sometimes
Yep
When will these fucks ever learn, you cannot reduce Dune to a cinema experience without discarding ninety percent of what makes it more than mindless scifi pew pew
Dune should've been ripe for a GOT type HBO series
yeah and it really needs the inner monologues for the important subtleties to stand out, like jessica marveling at all the seeded religion and traditions the sisters implanted in the fremen
His 'plan' was to create a giant Karenesque dystopia scarred into human racial memory so humanity would rebel into a million splinter groups the moment he died and colonize the entire universe.
>humans flee across the universe after Leto II finally dies >they become murderous turbo-degenerates out there in the unknown >they eventually come back to the original galaxy and cause far more damage than all of the previous jihads and civil wars combined
Good job, worm-man. You definitely saved humanity with this masterful plan.
The point is to save humanity, not any particular group of humans. No single mind of any construction can ever find all of humanity. That means humanity cannot be wiped out or ruled by any single mind.
That's the Golden Path, and if you think Leto II cared about how many bodies he had to stack to make it work you haven't read the books.
His 'plan' was to create a giant Karenesque dystopia scarred into human racial memory so humanity would rebel into a million splinter groups the moment he died and colonize the entire universe.
Jesus everything I hear about the franchise becoming gay cringe after the first few entries seems valid
there is literally nothing wrong for opting for Option 2 even if you miss out on GE
1 month ago
Anonymous
>gay cringe >don't be a cunt
I'm just responding in kind.
1 month ago
Anonymous
are you drunk?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Don't even pretend Children isn't a spiritually taxing slog and God Emperor doesn't get downright bizarre regularly...and especially that everything AFTER that shouldn't be ignored overall
god emperor is fun because its such a wacky departure from the previous books but AFTER god emperor the books just feel dumb. the honored matres are a stupid faction and the Tleilaxu get overexplained into a dorky race of clones.
I'm just put off because I enjoyed the slow, political nature of Dune and Messiah. I didn't get further because the plot from there seems to just go off the rails. Maybe I should sludge through Children and get to God Emperor though, weird worm-kings and all.
some fanboys get pissy if post-Messiah seems too jarringly weird for some people
Well he can fuck himself for being a gay cringe baby.
What is pretty much universally accepted is that the series peaks right out of the gate with Dune, which makes everything after inherently polarizing. Messiah is solid, showing the fall of Paul. Children falls off a cliff. GEOD is great, but doesn't rise up to the original's height. And everything after that becomes even more polarizing. It really depends on what you're wanting and expecting from the Dune franchise that determines how you'll take it.
The point of the golden path was to create a new breed of human who could not have their future read by Leto. The Hispanice gave him time vision (refer to Dr. Manhattan for easier explanation) and Leto saw that every future he could see ended with the human race dying. He created a dynasty so powerful eventually it would implode and went to his death knowing he would die because the cloners made him an ideal waifu
Ole Frank also had the idea that the gays make better berserkers. Came up in the Dosadi Experiment too, iirc.
I still think its hilarious that lesbians drove Duncan into a rage.
>its hilarious that lesbians drove Duncan into a rage
A galaxy of poon and none of it has the slightest interest in his dick. It *is* kind'a hilarious.
They're not really super soldiers. Their just super loyal and eager to serve as galactic hall monitors. Theyre Interplanetary scolds. Legions of Jen Psaki's with the athority of judge dredd.
Because Herbert had some incredibly fucking stupid ideas about the military. He genuinely thought every man who ever served in an army, anywhere, was a closeted homosexual.
Sometimes smart men like him go full retard on certain things.
because when you are big worm guy, the only joy you will be able to get is watching your army of lesbian super soldiers make out with each other on occasion
I'm sorry I just don't buy the malnourished Fremen who should be logically be naturally averse to conflict being better soldiers than the Sardukar who live and breathe fighting 24/7. Herbert could have at least asspulled something about "guerillas who know the terrain" or "the Hispanice makes them strong" instead of "they're super tough cuz their world is super tough"
Pygmies and amazon tribesmen live tough lives but i'd definitely bet on a 6ft tall US marine over their malnourished dwarf asses
Physical toughness isn't what he was going for. The Fremen were hiding the full extent of their first-worldness, and the terrain's influence was on giving them superior social cohesion.
Out of an unwillingness to admit Herbert was a filthy hippy who didn't know shit about war, I choose to believe the Sardaukar were a potemkin imperial army that existed mostly for show, and most of their reputation was propaganda.
Sardaukar were literally criminals. They were just brainwashed into obedience and violence they weren't "better" than others they'd just overwhelm them with retarded numerical advantage and violence. In small scale fights they almost always got their asses kicked by equivalent or even worse forces in the books.
This, they never broke until they died, and would win through raw logistical superiority or enemy morale collapsing. they were described as shock troops, and their reputation didn't even last more than a couple decades past corrino's reign
I swore Duncan or Gurney is referenced as better than a Sardaukar in skill. Like I said a post earlier it's only the movie that really plays up their vgh super killer kommando shit.
The prequels are unironically as good if not better than the originals. I'd read them if you haven't already. People just simp for the originals because of fanboying
Alright I checked, assuming the wiki is correct and is not just invoking prequel nonsense Sardaukar weren't equal but came close to the top tier of Ginaz fighting. The line of 1 Sardaukar being equal to 10 Landsraad conscripts seems plausible when you remember the houses are all puffed up jackasses doing fucking nothing but Renaissance Italian style plots and conspiracies and showboating fighting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW7n43gvOg4
Footage of the US military preparing to invade Iraq circa 2003.
The dumbest plothole in the Dune series is that nobody is smart enough to put a laze gun on a cheap ass drone to destroy entire fleets using shields. Or have a personal shield drone that shoots a laze gun at itself to cause massive explosions. There is a point in the prequels where the jihadis are suiciding themselves with laze attacks and blowing up entire battleships but even then they're too fucking stupid to just launch a laze rifle into space with a fucking rubber band around the trigger instead of blowing up their entire fleet as well.
Nuclear Weapons are a bigger taboo in the Dunc universe than in our own, to the point that if anyone uses a nuke they will get nuked by everyone else. I have to assume that the functional equivalent of nuking with the holtzmann shields would incur the same punishment as it is a nuclear explosion all the same. And plausible deniability would be moot because "Gee Padishah I dunno why this Atredies lord just got blown up in a nuclear explosion. Was it the Harkonnens or was it House shiddybibbly? I guess we'll never know."
>Fleets
Navigator guild handles long-distance travel. I'm not sure there's any space fleet combat to speak of. And if you piss off the navigator guild then lmao you are so fucked it's not even funny.
The nuclear taboo only makes sense for large houses. Terrorists always exist. You're telling me in 10,000 years there was never a single terrorist who decided to shoot a shield with a laze gun?
2 months ago
Anonymous
There probably was, but it wasn't referenced in the literature. At the end of the day it was a literary exercise to be rid of pew pew buck rodgers rayguns. If you take it at face value or even a mild introspection then it makes sense. It's only if you really dig into the weeds that it becomes an issue. For all we know lasguns are expensive to make and there's a prohibition on access to them a'la swords in Edo Japan. Or why bother with durka durka raygunning someone when there's plenty of alternatives.
I mean the very fact that they know Holtzman shields cause a nuclear explosion with a laser means, presumably, they did have many incidents of terrorists or rogue houses. It's been years since I read but I don't remember them saying "Nobody ever used a lasgun" it was just "Nobody uses them [present tense] because of the holtzman shield situation".
I will concede at the end of the day you have to ask why have the nuke situation to begin with. If shields stop lasers then lasers are worthless, and if shields are not useful on arrakis then just have some other contrivance for why lasers don't work there.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, the "shield/laser" situation has some pretty big plot holes. Frank was great at worldbuilding except on tactical matters.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>except on tactical matters.
which is why most of the fights in dune are glossed over very quickly. in the last fight they go from breaching the shields to being on bridge of the emperor's ship in like one page.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Fair. Tolkein was at least drawing on medieval/migration era storytelling for his battle scenes. Herbert didn't have much to go on.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>except on tactical matters
You now remember that he thought of "crusher"-class spaceships that would literally just land on top of and squash its target
Like some Looney Tunes skit
2 months ago
Anonymous
If you live in a universe where shields make kinetic guns useless and laser guns risk causing a nuclear explosion + religious execution of your house, crushing enemy troops with space ships make as much sense as using swords and knives.
One other point Herbert made about nuclear weapons is that pretty much all houses maintain stockpiles of them for a possible threat to humanity by intelligent aliens, those are notably absent from the Milky Way galaxy in the Dune universe.
2 months ago
Anonymous
It wouldn't even be hard, it's a desert world. Atmospheric dust scatters beams to uselessness within a foot or some other handwave.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Eh, presumably any light beam concentrated and powerful enough to blast through metal isn't going to be bothered by dust and sand. You could always have warfare limited to 20th Century tech by claiming that it's somehow impossible to build laser weapons at an Armalite or Kalashnikov size, just mumbo jumbo some scifi bullshit about power sources, beams being too narrow, the tech exploding if condensed to that size, etc. Going all the way back to Medieval with some "lasers hitting shields = Tsar Bomba" handwave just causes more questions, like "why not make small laser drone ships to nuke entire fleets/armies?" Frank really kinda wrote a big plot hole there.
2 months ago
Anonymous
They have nukes for that. The Fremen are capable of building them and all the major noble houses have nukes. Nobody needs the wish.com nukes unless its a weird edge case.
2 months ago
Anonymous
It was actually directly mentioned that Lasguns are expensive and require a lot of maintenance, yes.
I also can't remember, but I think they all come from Ix, so you have the religious dread thing going on there too.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Books were written pre 9/11, it was a different time back then
2 months ago
Anonymous
Not really lol. Read Liddlehart's Strategy (1954). The complete nuke and post-nuke meta were worked out within a few months of nukes going public.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>19motherfucking60's >no terroism
FUCKING WHAT
1 month ago
Anonymous
In this future slavery, loyalty chips and psychological torments are all legal. Each house rules differently, terrorism does not exist as any house usurper would be destroyed by the other houses, isolated from trade.(destroying their civilization) and likely would have the Emperor dispatch the Sardaukar to reinstate the next in line. In short to be a terrorist is to bring the doom of the planet ruler, or the galaxy ruler
>in the books
They fought a force nearly their equal and defeated it, and fought the Fremen who were one of the best hand to hand fighters in the galaxy on their home ground.
One Sardaukar legion was reckoned as good as ten regular House legions.
Just because they got worfed in the novels doesn't mean they didn't deserve their reputation.
Regular house legions were mostly conscripts plus a handful of death squads who did the real work. Saudaukar were a big deal because they were an professional-grade force combining skill and numbers.
I don't know why I've had to say this for 8 fucking years on this website to people who boast about how they've read Dune but:
Sardaukar are not criminals.
Salusa Secundus is not a prison planet. That's a lie the Emperor tells the houses so they have no interest about the planet.
Sardaukar are natives of SS and it is a hard planet which (as per one of the themes of Dune) creates hard men.
This is all explained to Paul on like page 40 or something.
Regular house legions were mostly conscripts plus a handful of death squads who did the real work. Saudaukar were a big deal because they were an professional-grade force combining skill and numbers.
You just made that up.
There's only 2 examples of house legions in the books; Harkonnen and Atreides.
Harkonnen soldiers are described as being sadistic professional soldiers from an industrialised society built on work and bread & circuses.
Atreides soldiers are described as being indoctrinated into a cult of hero worship of Leto and being trained so well that some of them are approaching parity with the Sardaukar. This is one of the reasons outright said in the book that the Emperor probably finds Leto and House Atreides threatening.
If you read the books you'd know it started as a prison planet and overtime became more luxurious as their reputation grew (destroying their combat capabilities at the same time)
Salusa Secundus is the original House Corrino homeworld. There are prisons there because of the harsh environment, but there are also civilian populations (of which the Sarduakar are drawn).
It's likely that prisoners get a chance for "freedom" to be inducted into the sardukar by a series of trials, hence the bloodletting we see at Sarduakar ceremonies (Prisoners who failed trials).
Kaitan is where the Imperial Seat is and where House Corrino now "Officially" resides.
Basically the emperor doesn't want other houses poking into their business on Salusa Secundus, not only because of the Sarduakar, but also the planet is going to be where military research, production and development occurs for the entirety of the Empires forces, such as the Imperial Navy
Honestly, not a bad fan theory. Most elite units do eventually devolve into Potemkin units surviving on reputation and inherited honor. The Streltsy of Russia, for instance, were pretty elite, being recruited from middle class merchants, craftsmen, etc. However, the position was inherited. Your father was a Strelets, so you inherited it and became a Strelets. As these things always go, this meant that by the end, the Streltsy had deteriorated in quality.
>Most elite units do eventually devolve into Potemkin units surviving on reputation and inherited honor.
this is explicitly spelled out in later books
both Sardaukar and Fremen became weaker as time passed
their status of elite brought them many comforts and those comforts in turn bring weakness
on the other hand, hostile environment creates resourcefulness and fortitude
then again, there are certified Frank Herbert moments with ideas like military composed entirely of dominatrix are good for stability because they don't try to usurp power or something
It's fairly well constructed. The Spacing Guild, the shield, and the prohibition on thinking machines aren't there by accident. Going in reverse order:
The prohibition on thinking machines makes running a large industrial society difficult. IIRC in one of the appendixes Herbert talks about how one of the effects of the ban is to eliminate non-spacing guild FTL communication. And that it's the fact that planets cannot organize due to lack of this ability that keeps the Sardaukar from being crushed by the sheer numbers that a dozen or more planets in a coalition could organize.
The Shield nullifies damn near every advance in military technology since the invention of gunpowder. Combine this with the lack of co-ordination, and you have an environment where discipline and skill can have an out-sized effect rather than setting up what Kipling described:
>A scrimmage in a Border Station- >A canter down some dark defile >Two thousand pounds of education >Drops to a ten-rupee jezail
Finally the Spacing Guild limits the size of armies by charging prohibitive costs for transporting troops. Again, encouraging the development of small, elite forces, rather than mass armies.
The contrast the books make is that the Sardaukar hadn't been defeated in generations, so when things started going badly, they couldn't respond (Paul actually notes that the ones who could accept they were being beaten started fighting better). The Fremen had been living under occupation and were incredibly pragmatic. The book talks about the Fremen "reasoning with a knife" i.e. cutting off anything that doesn't work.
The Fremen had absolute faith in their religion, where the Sardaukar were cynical about theirs. The Fremen were fanatics being lead by their messiah.
Also there were way way more of the Fremen than anyone expected, and so they could organize millions of troops equal to or better than the Sardaukar, fighting on their own turf.
The Sardaukar also probably get used for enforcement actions and strikes where they can arrange to turn up fast after a lot of prior recon, hit the enemy before they can respond and then leave before the dust settles on the corpses. Putting the Sardaukar into Arrakis is like sending a SEAL team into WW1 trench warfare (with WW1 tech and weapons) and expecting them to perform in an outsized manner relative to WW1 troops.
Yohr analysis is nice, but it's missing the wgole "hardship breeds strong men" thing that is a really explicit theme. Herbert pushes it as a premise for his plot, and it's a suspension of disbelief contrivance kind of thing that most people will happily nod along to, not anything really grounded in reality, set or setting.
You're right that that idea is an element, however, it's not the end of it. The Sardaukar are bred on Salusa Secundus, which is as or nearly as harsh as Dune. Officially Salusa Secundus is a prison planet and its link to the Sardaukar is concealed. (There's a bit where Baron Harkonnen suggests using Dune as a prison planet to an imperial envoy and Thufir nearly shits himself because he understands that what the Baron said would be taken as "I want to create my own Sardaukar legions".)
Herbert also mentions that some of the Atreidies soldiers are equivalent, one on one, to the Sardaukar, and that's what makes Paul's father a target for destruction. It's not like Herbert is asserting that this is the only way you get good troops.
Herbert digs a bit into the mechanisms of why the Fremen are strong. It's the adaptation of the Fremen to a harsh environment that makes them such ideal material to turn into an army. I'm not going to enumerate them, but over the next couple of books, Herbert shows us the Fremen culture imploding in real time. Becoming the seat of Paul's empire changes their environment, and their culture cannot adapt.
I feel like I'm not making this clear, and maybe I'm just drawing a distinction without a difference. But I think the idea in the books is less "Hardship breeds strong men" as much as it is, "Here is how and why hardship creates the potential for strength in a people."
>potemkin army
Except they fucking WEREN'T. The Sardaukar absolutely destroyed the Atreades house troops to the point where they fled into the keep and got bombed by tube artillery the Harkonnens brought because no shields.
How many times do we have to find in history that being big-billy-badass warrior-caste didn't amount to shit in the right (wrong) circumstances. Also pretty sure the book mentions the use of slug throwers and how the Sardaukar were built for war among the noble houses with all the ritualism of slow-knife-penetrates-the-shield warfare rather than the dirty guerilla shit Fremen did. It's not simply a childlike /misc/ "bad place make strong man" but the longstanding view that indolent luxury weakens someone, and rustic living encourages not only fundamentals of endurance and lifestyle (Xenophon references this in Cyropedia) but also that it requires strong solidarity and esprit de corps as compared to how more comfortable living induces vertical sectarianism or "Identity" politics versus horizontal sectarianism which is "My tribe vs that tribe" (Ibn Khaldun and the Asabiyyah theory). I'm not even sure if
Out of an unwillingness to admit Herbert was a filthy hippy who didn't know shit about war, I choose to believe the Sardaukar were a potemkin imperial army that existed mostly for show, and most of their reputation was propaganda.
is a fan theory or is literally the case, as I am pretty sure there's some lines about the Sardaukar having rested on their laurels. It's the movie that plays them up as sturmtruppen gods.
Ole Frank also had the idea that the gays make better berserkers. Came up in the Dosadi Experiment too, iirc.
I still think its hilarious that lesbians drove Duncan into a rage.
Gays had a lot of bad reputation beyond just lechery back then. It's a trip to read Rise and Fall of the Third Reich because the guy who wrote it is some liberal who regrets what the Germans did to Germany but then you get a line dripping with malice like >..its chief, Roehm, were notorious homosexual perverts. Lt. Edmund Heines, who led the munich SA, was not only a homosexual but a convicted murder. These two and dozens of others quarreled and feuded as only men of unnatural sexual incoinations, with their peculiar jealousies, can.
Either he or another and more modern author, or even Herbert himself if I am misremembering, said something along the lines of 'only a homosexual can be such a sadist'/
>the Sardukar who live and breathe fighting 24/7
They actually don't, the book makes it clear that they've gotten soft over the centuries and their prison planet isn't the death world it used to be.
They were still being ground into the dirt until Paul gave them proper tactical training (beyond suicidal personal combat) and modern weaponry
Also their gimmicks worked in the desert but wouldn't have worked offworld without once again Atreides training
It's like the Gurkhas and Kurds and Irish and so on, tough times and warrior cultures do make better basic recruit stock for soldiers, IF combined with proper training and equipment
>I just don't buy
It doesn't matter in this case since that specific part is based on real history.
You can argue however much you like, but there was a time in history when tribes of completely barbaric arabs suddenly united and beat the shit out of two most powerful empires in the world at the time simultaneously, proceeding to conquer whole of middle east and half of midterranean.
I think there was a "House Orlok" in WH40k somewhere. It's originally the name of the vampire from the old movie "Nosferatu". No idea who they are in Dune.
The Barron's nephew killed one just by blowing it up in the books. It's really just that easy. From what I remember he put down a thumper surrounded by a bunch of explosives then just blew it up when it ate it.
The dumbest plothole in the Dune series is that nobody is smart enough to put a laze gun on a cheap ass drone to destroy entire fleets using shields. Or have a personal shield drone that shoots a laze gun at itself to cause massive explosions. There is a point in the prequels where the jihadis are suiciding themselves with laze attacks and blowing up entire battleships but even then they're too fucking stupid to just launch a laze rifle into space with a fucking rubber band around the trigger instead of blowing up their entire fleet as well.
they weren't stupid, they were morally and religiously adverse to something that could operate farther than radio signal strength's practical limits, they aren't Ixians
>the dumbest plot hole in reality is nobody uses tactical nukes
Same shit. Incidentally, once Leto II flips the meta from default shields to default lasguns this tactic is used for planetary WMD spam in some later books
The nuclear taboo only makes sense for large houses. Terrorists always exist. You're telling me in 10,000 years there was never a single terrorist who decided to shoot a shield with a laze gun?
If ISIS could have nukes for the same price as a rifle and body armor you bet your ass they'd use them regardless of conventions
Lasguns aren't your dad's AR15. They're military grade weapons like ATGMs.
If you read the books instead of complaining about them you'd notice the nobles sleep in underground bunkers to guard against lasguns on a timer being used to nuke their house's shields too.
Las-Shield reaction is a dice roll.
If you do that kind of fuckery, you could get a firecracker or regular bomb sized pop as a result. In exchange for such an unreliable result, if found out that you were deliberately exploiting the las-shield reaction in wartime, the rest of humanity will descend on your planet and fuck your whole bloodline into the dirt.
It's essentially the nuclear option, which already exists, with all the inherent risks, while also being totally unreliable at the same time.
Dune threads are always full of the same half-dozen failed gotcha attempts by people who don't know the lore.
That isn't a plothole you fucking retard, no one wants to go around causing nuclear explosions everywhere because that shit automatically makes everyone nervous
The prequels are unironically as good if not better than the originals. I'd read them if you haven't already. People just simp for the originals because of fanboying
I read an edition of Chapterhouse Dune that had Frank Herbert's obituary for his spouse in it, and oddly, that obituary gave closure for the series for me. It's pretty clear from that obit, and from the fact that Frank didn't make it two years after his wife died, how big a part of his life she was, and so that ending with the old man and the old woman looking at the characters and lamenting that they got away made perfect sense.
Paul's master plan was to keep Chani from getting tortured for the rest of her life and then die.
Leto's master plan was the Golden Path.
Wensicia barely rates as a bad guy. Probably has less than a millionth of Paul's kill count, maybe a billionth of Leto's eventual high score; hell, Farad'n even mentions how sloppy and stupid the plot actually was once he takes over House Corrino.
My general rule is to read the first two pages and see if i like a book. Brian Herbert wrote such inane legacy raping drivel i had to stop after two sentences
Good, but it leaves out option 4.5 which includes the Dune Encyclopedia, a (non) canon literal Encyclopedia for autists who want to learn about entomology, poetry, and bits and pieces of proper background lore before Brian Herbet raped it.
Messiah and Children feel very similar and it does make Children a bit of a slog up until the end. God Emperor is a huge change of pace and also fantastic. all books after that are kinda dumb. even before herbert's son took over.
No you're not
Dune alone is awesome enough
Messiah is just to finish the religious aspect of it; they were meant to be one book anyway but Messiah loses some of the tightness of the first book because it was split off and Frank padded it a bit
Children onwards is like a spinoff, what happened to the universe and so on. Which I find is pretty philosophically empty and tediously esoteric compared to the first
Frank captured lightning in a bottle once with the first book, but after that he never really got it again. He ran out of things to say IMO
Fair asessment. It's difficult enough to write a consistently good series. Tolkein took ages to work through his trilogy, but he more-or-less planned through everything well ahead of time. Herbert...I honestly am not sure just how far in advance he planned everything.
Considering the series started out as a series of short story articles that were reports on a desert planet by "the Imperial planetologist" in a magazine its fair to say Herbert may not have had the ending finalized before he started.
Yeah, a lot of the plot feels improvised. He definitely had an outline, lots of IRL inspirations, and so on, but beyond Dune Messiah it feels increasingly improvised.
Fair asessment. It's difficult enough to write a consistently good series. Tolkein took ages to work through his trilogy, but he more-or-less planned through everything well ahead of time. Herbert...I honestly am not sure just how far in advance he planned everything.
He clearly intended to write one novel, Dune + Messiah, which was his take on religion, politics, governance, prescience, Messiah complex and the Middle East situation, even imperialism and colonialism
He wrapped up most of the themes except the last of the religious bits and stuck that into Messiah; supposedly his publisher balked at that last 20 or 30 thousand words. I don't know why; Dune 1 is already the size of an actual fucking brick. (I have a 70s era paperback edition.) Either way Messiah completes the Paul story.
After that it seems Frank tried to expand on the universe. But for me it lost its appeal then and there; Frank had nothing more to say on the human condition and the arc of the story had taken a far left turn away from "what if some semitic tribe got a Messiah and got good at warfare"
Books were written pre 9/11, it was a different time back then
Actually the 70s was peak terrorism era. Libyans and Palestinians were running around shooting shit up after they realised the Israelis couldn't be beaten conventionally
Not really lol. Read Liddlehart's Strategy (1954). The complete nuke and post-nuke meta were worked out within a few months of nukes going public.
And yet no nuke terrorists exist
Lasguns are hard to acquire I suppose
2 months ago
Anonymous
God Emperor still would've been a good stopping point.
Children is definitely the weakest of the first four books. I would say if you ever find yourself getting bored just skip to the next chapter. There's some good stuff in it with paul and leto that you shouldn't miss.
Children was so full of pointless subplots like space tigers plotthat only dragged down the pace. And the mystical quest for the desert shithole that inhabits 5 people
are small swords really the only way to penetrate a shield without killing everyone?
or would something like a pile bunker or power fist be able to do so by moving only at punching speed until it makes contact with the enemy and only then accelerating to lethal speeds
This bothered me as well because there are multiple ways you can still bypass such a shield (chemicals, 2 stage gyro jet ammo, radiation weapons etc.) but then I realized you're not going to enjoy the books with such a mindset. The whole universe is set in the very far future where technology is viewed with distrust and everyones thought patterns are heavily influenced by tradition, religious ritual and mysticism. Innovation and scientific reasoning that we use doesn't apply in the Dune universe because that sort of thinking is heretical and morally wrong. Shit, if you whipped out your smartphone or calculator in Dune everyone around you would make an Invasion of the Bodysnatchers noise before dismembering and burning your body along with your device before committing collective suicide in a highly ritualistic fashion. It's a space opera after all so you can't scrutinize it by applying hard science sci-fi because that's not the theme.
I mean they use slowstunner darts and gas, even in just the movie, are yall that ADD and autistic? That you couldn't watch the thing for spazzing out about it?
its a perfectly valid concept, since there is an obvious difference between something like star wars, where none of the science is explained in any capacity and its there to create sailing ship analogues in space, and gravity, which takes place entirely in earth orbit and where space travel is limited to chemical rocket boosters and orbital mechanics
You seem to have my post confused with one that would be more comfortable to your autistic brain.
I didn't say "the phrase doesn't describe anything" I said "it's an indication you're a homosexual" which it is.
Paul was right to leave, I'd be tired of shit too if people constantly misconstrued my word, my mother and my sister seethed about me constantly and my children hated me.
Why do they bother with swords when they could just run over the other guys with steamrollers? There isn't anything a guy with melee weapons could do against that.
Love Dune, despite all its weird quirks, despite Herbert's weird personal views, or maybe because of them. Sometimes I fantasize about how I would write/rewrite/adapt the series, what I would change...
>miniaturized case reloading machine integrated into the stock
That's actually a pretty neat idea and it seems like there could be a way of putting something like that into current firearms tech with a thing like picrel.
It's one of my all time favourite books, and it's well regarded in general
I found it absolutely gripping, once it got going I couldn't put it down, it's very weird though
Well considering the similarity in appearance id probably use the same thing i did on your moms clapped out bootyhole, given the ease of entry i wouldnt really call it a bunker penetrator though, more of a tunnel widener.
It's mentioned in Dune that the Spacing guild also controls the ability to put satellites in orbit and flatly refuses to let anyone do so. Although that could be because Dune lacks the technical/industrial capability to put a rocket into space rather than a guild monopoly through the empire.
Read the book again, the Spacing Guild wont let anybody put satellites into orbit around Dune because the Fremen are bribing them with massive amounts of Hispanice because they dont want to be observed.
Which should have sent up some huge red flags, the Spacing Guild is allowed to do whatever the fuck they want and you can't stop them, but that's a particularly high level of fucky wucky behavior. Setting a mentat onto the task of figuring out who benefits from a complete no sell of all satellites on the first or second most important planet in the empire seems like it would be a no brainer for pretty much anyone with a mentat on hand.
Guild claimed Dune was special and their satellites would have been prohibitively costly
Given how special Dune was in all other respects, the explanation sufficed for a time
>Fremen are bribing them with massive amounts of Hispanice because they dont want to be observed
literally water
where the fuck are you finding water on a planet made entirely of cocaine and sand
I dunno, ask the Fremen
i don't blame for not reading any of the books other than the first one, but tl;dr the worms are organic terra(dune)forming equipment, dune becomes a sea eventually cause the core is full of water still, the sea worms poop Hispanice so strong it kills you instead of being useful.
Quit reading Brian Herbert's garbage fanfics.
Everything after God Emperor is garbage non-canon (yes even Frank's last book Heretics) and I will die on this hill.
Everything after Dune is garbage non-canon and that's the hill I will die on.
>dune becomes a sea eventually cause the core is full of water still, the sea worms poop Hispanice so strong it kills you instead of being useful
This is so retarded and wrong that it honestly sounds like you had someone describe the books to you instead of reading them yourself
The more I hear about the later Dune books, the more retarded they sound. I'm glad the local library only had the first few when I was a kid.
Asteroids.
Read the books, at least the first one.
I have, a couple of times. It's pretty decent but massively overrated and not in a 'Seinfeld isn't funny' way, since it wasn't the first novel to comment on social engineering through religion. The worms and Dune are hugely lame to me because they basically run on magic. It's dirkas in space with wormshit instead of oil.
Also, why the fuck would you cast Josh Brolin as Gurney? He's supposed to be ugly as fuck.
Different anon, but I get that. I personally think the real shame is that Herbert's other stuff gets less attention than Dune.
Some dudes mine it at the poles. Apparently the only reason it's not just brought in from offworld is because the Spacing Guild charges too much for importing the stuff to be a profitable venture.
Terraforming and climate control machines.
>Hasnt read the book
The Fremen have huge lakes of water hidden all around the planet that they have been collecting for a long time.
>that they have been collecting for a long time
I never understood this. They must have taken the water from somewhere else so the rest of the planet is even drier for this. Not a drop of additional water was generated by the Fremen, like by having Spacing Guild haul in some ice asteroids and drop them into the atmosphere.
The Fremen have been farming their own moisture if you know what I mean
The planet has been occupied for Hispanice mining for a long fucking time. Unless they are bottling up all their liquid waste and sending off world where do you think its going? People have to drink somehow in Arrakeen and not all of them are fremen. So water is making its way to the planet via imports and, over time, its staying there in reservoirs hidden all over the planet.
Dune used to have oceans. There was an ecological catastrophe at some point in the past, but the water is still there, just encysted and buried. The Fremen are capturing what leaks to the surface and into the atmosphere as vapour.
The ecological catastrophe was sandworms. Sand trout gulp water by the gallon and absorb it like crazy. Dune is made by the sandworms and later Leto II restores the water to Arrakis by trapping the sandworms and terraforming.
In Dune all interplanetary travel is non military and done via the Navigators Guild (string bean people cause they spend so long in space with less gravity). The Navigators Guild has full control over what they transport (although Emperors are known to coerce them) and operate independent of everyone. To have orbital strike capabilities you must be the master of the Planet you are on. Also due to the Bulterian Jihad (Robots vs Humanity: Humanity: 1 - Robots: Fucked on) many things like an orbital platform would be hard to maintain as they would require human input and management or else run the risk of upsetting the rules against thinking machines. By the point of Dune this is well settled dogma so there is a large amount of technology that is fundamentally limited by traditions and society, as well as governmental agreements for stability.
>Dat Shai-Hulussy
Human b8 and MOAB
>Human b8
Just use a thumper, more consistent.
with my dick
any hole's a goal
his dick
I use his dick.
super soaker
>How do you kill Shai Hulud?
With one man proficient in the blade
You can't kill a god anon.
The fremen routinely kill them to make space LSD and have orgies
Don't they have tiny juvenile captive worms that they use for this? Or do they go out into the desert and drag one of the big boys back home? I thought it was the former but it's been a hot minute since I've read the book
It's the juveniles, but you could kill a big one the same way; also in the books it says the worms might die from infection after the fremen mess with their scals when riding
>t. Dagoth Ur
Build a mine consisting of a shield and a laser. Build several of them, actually, because you never quite know what will happen when a laser hits a shield.
>Bunker penetrator?
It would just put a small hole through him. In the books they say it takes multiple spaced out nuclear bombs to kill a worm. I think the implication is they're absurdly good at healing and will reform or some shit.
>I think the implication is they're absurdly good at healing and will reform or some shit.
iirc they have this weird anatomy where they are in fact a colony of smaller organisms rather than a one single being, so simply destroying just one part of the worm probably wouldn't kill the other.
Some worms are so adept at healing themselves that if you cut the body in half, sometimes they'll grow back the other portion and you'll end up with two of them.
Literally just drop vibrating bombs in the sand, its so easy
Like that one stage in Jedi Academy.
Vibrating bombs? Don't even have an initial capabilities document drafted and it's already smelling like a 20 trillion $ boondoggle.
Yeah, but the guy who's running the space cocain cartel can afford that kind of expenditure.
Why would he want to kill his chicks? No chicks no eggs.
You are now hearing this gif.
hamburger cheesburger big mac whoper
>not watching the original dune that was clearly written while everyone was high as hell with sting starring as a b grade bad guy and cpt Picard playing gurney….
Anon you do know the slow knife penetrates don’t you?
the fan edit is pretty great. the story of the original movie is worse than Dunc but they nailed the exotic, trippy world design.
Yeah. DUNC did well enough, but the set design is too minimalist and doesn't look lived-in.
I was never under the impression that the world of Dune, in the original novel itself anyway, was really all that wierd.
Keep in mind that Frank was inspired by shrooms.
Sure they had wierd religious practices but in terms of things like architecture, how people talked, the way technology was described, I was surprised how grounded the setting came across as in the book.
I think that's possibly because everything was run by people rather than sci fi computer magic
There are labourers, pilots, miners, guards, politicians, mystics, soldiers, and leaders, and they are all people
Having the butlerian jihad in their history was a stroke of genius really, it forced the universe to run on people, which is infinitely more interesting than a universe run by computers and machinery
I rewatched this recently and it really is awful, just rubbish, no wonder Lynch hated it
They should do a digitally remastered release. Clean up the effects a bit, but otherwise leave it weird and wonderful.
Dunc just feels like generic scifi in terms of aesthetics to me.
Yeah, because they cut out all the philosophy and 95% of the characterisation
yo these niggas got them puffer jackets
That looks cool as fuck
It’s the closest you can get to being on drugs without actually being on drugs..
Somehow it holds up aesthetically to me.. or at least looks great for looking so damn weird.. the new dune had stunning visuals, but somehow I just expect dune in my head to look… oddly shittier than they show.
What the hell. Watch the scene.
?si=zWljzZuxsU35D-4a
The bit where he says “poison” and “I will bend like a reed” are only heard in is head and are narration… which is confusing if you didn’t see it used through the rest of the movie. Be prepared for eyebrows.
>video unavailable
That was quick
It's just blocked in your country, the video is still up. It's an official upload, btw, it can't be copyright struck. It's just only official in certain countries.
Funnily enough when I searched Dune 1984, it came up with the entire movie on youtube.
Quite strange.
That place where women can't look...
What like an old cobwebby shed or something?
>Jodorowsky wanted Mick Jagger
>Sting in '84
>DUNC 2 will be Austin Butler, who played Elvis
What is it about Feyd-Bofa and rock stars?
Let’s make a movie with people who seem like they’d be fun as hell to be around while I’m blitzed out of my mind.
The same thought process behind every Hunter S. Thompson adaptation.
Oh, fuck, now I'm imagining Hunter himself being in one of the Dune adaptations.
Ironically this thinking but “g” rated for the partying is why every other year or so we get an Adam Sandler movie that is complete shit but stars half the same people as a previous one and gets filmed on location in the tropics for 2 months…
>Hunter in Dune
The world couldn't handle kino of that level. Put him in Jodo's Dune, keep Dali as the Emperor, and actually make the whole thing. Unimaginable kino.
He'd work as a twisted mentat.
Maybe Austin playing elvis would be relevant if feyd didn't look like the onions wojak in Dunc.
Jodorwoski wanted Salvador Dali as the emperor, wanted it to be 12 hours long, and prettuly much tigermom abused his son to prepare him to play Paul. Never getting that version of Dune is a crime against humanity. Every good bit of the Lynch Dune came out of Jodorowski's vision 🙁
Dali was kicked out of the role for being pro-Franco.
dank aesthetics, although the pacing and character arc was a bit rushed,
I like the Tv mini series best of all, low budget acting and costume design r fun sometimes
Yep
When will these fucks ever learn, you cannot reduce Dune to a cinema experience without discarding ninety percent of what makes it more than mindless scifi pew pew
Dune should've been ripe for a GOT type HBO series
yeah and it really needs the inner monologues for the important subtleties to stand out, like jessica marveling at all the seeded religion and traditions the sisters implanted in the fremen
IMO the movie is just a companion piece to the books. The recent film made me want to reread the book to remember what people were thinking.
I fucking loved this TV adaptation
Loved their Navigator design. Still fuming they just glossed it all over in part 1.
Apparently the dudes in the funny masks at the paper reading were the navigators. I don't have the highest hopes for the second part, not gonna lie.
>not watching the miniseries that simultaneously looks like a porn parody and a high school theater preformance
?feature=shared
Say what you want, but Ian McNeice was the most true-to-book depiction of Baron Harkonnen so far.
The miniseries was the most true to the books in a lot of ways. Sadly a pale xerox copy is the result.
>Not watching the superior version
The Guild. thinks. you're. a. homosexual.
wtf hes in the wrong sci fi franchise
Flip a coin, if heads it’s a holodeck malfunction, if tails it’s a weird away mission episode.
"CAN YOU DIG IT?!"
I could kill it with my bare hands. It'd be easier than the chimp.
probably just dunk a speaker in the sand playing music and blow it up with a 44
Why did Leto make an army of lesbian super soldiers?
Something about men being more treacherous, they female army also saw him as a god so that helped.
What kind of man are you to ask that question
Also to breed Duncan with.
Wouldn't you if you could?
His 'plan' was to create a giant Karenesque dystopia scarred into human racial memory so humanity would rebel into a million splinter groups the moment he died and colonize the entire universe.
and then they did, and it sucked
>humans flee across the universe after Leto II finally dies
>they become murderous turbo-degenerates out there in the unknown
>they eventually come back to the original galaxy and cause far more damage than all of the previous jihads and civil wars combined
Good job, worm-man. You definitely saved humanity with this masterful plan.
I thought worm man's master plan was to delay that part long enough for him to selectively breed humans invisible to psychic bullshit
The point is to save humanity, not any particular group of humans. No single mind of any construction can ever find all of humanity. That means humanity cannot be wiped out or ruled by any single mind.
That's the Golden Path, and if you think Leto II cared about how many bodies he had to stack to make it work you haven't read the books.
Yes, he wanted to ingrain libertarianism into human genome.
He didn't give a fuck about the political state of the universe after he was gone, all that mattered was that the human race continued existing.
Jesus everything I hear about the franchise becoming gay cringe after the first few entries seems valid
>I am illiterate
Thanks anon we guessed.
Elaborate.
some fanboys get pissy if post-Messiah seems too jarringly weird for some people
sir this is a Dune thread, don't be a cunt
there is literally nothing wrong for opting for Option 2 even if you miss out on GE
>gay cringe
>don't be a cunt
I'm just responding in kind.
are you drunk?
Don't even pretend Children isn't a spiritually taxing slog and God Emperor doesn't get downright bizarre regularly...and especially that everything AFTER that shouldn't be ignored overall
god emperor is fun because its such a wacky departure from the previous books but AFTER god emperor the books just feel dumb. the honored matres are a stupid faction and the Tleilaxu get overexplained into a dorky race of clones.
I'm just put off because I enjoyed the slow, political nature of Dune and Messiah. I didn't get further because the plot from there seems to just go off the rails. Maybe I should sludge through Children and get to God Emperor though, weird worm-kings and all.
Well he can fuck himself for being a gay cringe baby.
What is pretty much universally accepted is that the series peaks right out of the gate with Dune, which makes everything after inherently polarizing. Messiah is solid, showing the fall of Paul. Children falls off a cliff. GEOD is great, but doesn't rise up to the original's height. And everything after that becomes even more polarizing. It really depends on what you're wanting and expecting from the Dune franchise that determines how you'll take it.
The point of the golden path was to create a new breed of human who could not have their future read by Leto. The Hispanice gave him time vision (refer to Dr. Manhattan for easier explanation) and Leto saw that every future he could see ended with the human race dying. He created a dynasty so powerful eventually it would implode and went to his death knowing he would die because the cloners made him an ideal waifu
I like that description.
Ole Frank also had the idea that the gays make better berserkers. Came up in the Dosadi Experiment too, iirc.
I still think its hilarious that lesbians drove Duncan into a rage.
If I were surrounded by nothing but women, I'd probably be driven into a furious rage, too.
>its hilarious that lesbians drove Duncan into a rage
A galaxy of poon and none of it has the slightest interest in his dick. It *is* kind'a hilarious.
>A galaxy of poon and none of it has the slightest interest in his dick.
wat? the fish speakers are CONSTANTLY lusting over his dick, the giant musclegirl speaker nutts just by watching him climb up a cliff
something about war being gay (unironically).
I didn't really get it either.
They're not really super soldiers. Their just super loyal and eager to serve as galactic hall monitors. Theyre Interplanetary scolds. Legions of Jen Psaki's with the athority of judge dredd.
Because Herbert had some incredibly fucking stupid ideas about the military. He genuinely thought every man who ever served in an army, anywhere, was a closeted homosexual.
Sometimes smart men like him go full retard on certain things.
wouldnt you?
because when you are big worm guy, the only joy you will be able to get is watching your army of lesbian super soldiers make out with each other on occasion
>on occasion
You mean 24/7
There's more than enough to have multiple rotations
piss on it
>honored matres
Source?
RJ376981
>Mage Kanade’s Futanari Dungeon Quest
Ah fuck, I've already finished this one.
Was alright.
This is futa, isn't it
God I hope so
good game
>Threatening to kill Shai Hulud
>Draws Cryst Knife
I will become wealthy from your water.
You just reminded me the band Shai Hulud exists and that Hearts Once Nourished With Hope and Compassion is a banger album. Thanks OP.
I'm sorry I just don't buy the malnourished Fremen who should be logically be naturally averse to conflict being better soldiers than the Sardukar who live and breathe fighting 24/7. Herbert could have at least asspulled something about "guerillas who know the terrain" or "the Hispanice makes them strong" instead of "they're super tough cuz their world is super tough"
Pygmies and amazon tribesmen live tough lives but i'd definitely bet on a 6ft tall US marine over their malnourished dwarf asses
Not a lot of crayons in the jungle. The pygmy would just have to wait for the marine to starve.
Physical toughness isn't what he was going for. The Fremen were hiding the full extent of their first-worldness, and the terrain's influence was on giving them superior social cohesion.
>The Fremen were hiding the full extent of their first-worldness
whut?
.t has never ever a dune
Out of an unwillingness to admit Herbert was a filthy hippy who didn't know shit about war, I choose to believe the Sardaukar were a potemkin imperial army that existed mostly for show, and most of their reputation was propaganda.
It turns out chanting, blood parties, and masturbating over how cool and tough you are doesn't actually help you in battle.
Sardaukar were literally criminals. They were just brainwashed into obedience and violence they weren't "better" than others they'd just overwhelm them with retarded numerical advantage and violence. In small scale fights they almost always got their asses kicked by equivalent or even worse forces in the books.
This, they never broke until they died, and would win through raw logistical superiority or enemy morale collapsing. they were described as shock troops, and their reputation didn't even last more than a couple decades past corrino's reign
I swore Duncan or Gurney is referenced as better than a Sardaukar in skill. Like I said a post earlier it's only the movie that really plays up their vgh super killer kommando shit.
Alright I checked, assuming the wiki is correct and is not just invoking prequel nonsense Sardaukar weren't equal but came close to the top tier of Ginaz fighting. The line of 1 Sardaukar being equal to 10 Landsraad conscripts seems plausible when you remember the houses are all puffed up jackasses doing fucking nothing but Renaissance Italian style plots and conspiracies and showboating fighting.
Footage of the US military preparing to invade Iraq circa 2003.
Nuclear Weapons are a bigger taboo in the Dunc universe than in our own, to the point that if anyone uses a nuke they will get nuked by everyone else. I have to assume that the functional equivalent of nuking with the holtzmann shields would incur the same punishment as it is a nuclear explosion all the same. And plausible deniability would be moot because "Gee Padishah I dunno why this Atredies lord just got blown up in a nuclear explosion. Was it the Harkonnens or was it House shiddybibbly? I guess we'll never know."
>Fleets
Navigator guild handles long-distance travel. I'm not sure there's any space fleet combat to speak of. And if you piss off the navigator guild then lmao you are so fucked it's not even funny.
The nuclear taboo only makes sense for large houses. Terrorists always exist. You're telling me in 10,000 years there was never a single terrorist who decided to shoot a shield with a laze gun?
There probably was, but it wasn't referenced in the literature. At the end of the day it was a literary exercise to be rid of pew pew buck rodgers rayguns. If you take it at face value or even a mild introspection then it makes sense. It's only if you really dig into the weeds that it becomes an issue. For all we know lasguns are expensive to make and there's a prohibition on access to them a'la swords in Edo Japan. Or why bother with durka durka raygunning someone when there's plenty of alternatives.
I mean the very fact that they know Holtzman shields cause a nuclear explosion with a laser means, presumably, they did have many incidents of terrorists or rogue houses. It's been years since I read but I don't remember them saying "Nobody ever used a lasgun" it was just "Nobody uses them [present tense] because of the holtzman shield situation".
I will concede at the end of the day you have to ask why have the nuke situation to begin with. If shields stop lasers then lasers are worthless, and if shields are not useful on arrakis then just have some other contrivance for why lasers don't work there.
Yeah, the "shield/laser" situation has some pretty big plot holes. Frank was great at worldbuilding except on tactical matters.
>except on tactical matters.
which is why most of the fights in dune are glossed over very quickly. in the last fight they go from breaching the shields to being on bridge of the emperor's ship in like one page.
Fair. Tolkein was at least drawing on medieval/migration era storytelling for his battle scenes. Herbert didn't have much to go on.
>except on tactical matters
You now remember that he thought of "crusher"-class spaceships that would literally just land on top of and squash its target
Like some Looney Tunes skit
If you live in a universe where shields make kinetic guns useless and laser guns risk causing a nuclear explosion + religious execution of your house, crushing enemy troops with space ships make as much sense as using swords and knives.
One other point Herbert made about nuclear weapons is that pretty much all houses maintain stockpiles of them for a possible threat to humanity by intelligent aliens, those are notably absent from the Milky Way galaxy in the Dune universe.
It wouldn't even be hard, it's a desert world. Atmospheric dust scatters beams to uselessness within a foot or some other handwave.
Eh, presumably any light beam concentrated and powerful enough to blast through metal isn't going to be bothered by dust and sand. You could always have warfare limited to 20th Century tech by claiming that it's somehow impossible to build laser weapons at an Armalite or Kalashnikov size, just mumbo jumbo some scifi bullshit about power sources, beams being too narrow, the tech exploding if condensed to that size, etc. Going all the way back to Medieval with some "lasers hitting shields = Tsar Bomba" handwave just causes more questions, like "why not make small laser drone ships to nuke entire fleets/armies?" Frank really kinda wrote a big plot hole there.
They have nukes for that. The Fremen are capable of building them and all the major noble houses have nukes. Nobody needs the wish.com nukes unless its a weird edge case.
It was actually directly mentioned that Lasguns are expensive and require a lot of maintenance, yes.
I also can't remember, but I think they all come from Ix, so you have the religious dread thing going on there too.
Books were written pre 9/11, it was a different time back then
Not really lol. Read Liddlehart's Strategy (1954). The complete nuke and post-nuke meta were worked out within a few months of nukes going public.
>19motherfucking60's
>no terroism
FUCKING WHAT
In this future slavery, loyalty chips and psychological torments are all legal. Each house rules differently, terrorism does not exist as any house usurper would be destroyed by the other houses, isolated from trade.(destroying their civilization) and likely would have the Emperor dispatch the Sardaukar to reinstate the next in line. In short to be a terrorist is to bring the doom of the planet ruler, or the galaxy ruler
Basically the modern Russian army. Orc rushing with a convict army, no matter how many bodies pile up, you just keep throwing more.
>in the books
They fought a force nearly their equal and defeated it, and fought the Fremen who were one of the best hand to hand fighters in the galaxy on their home ground.
One Sardaukar legion was reckoned as good as ten regular House legions.
Just because they got worfed in the novels doesn't mean they didn't deserve their reputation.
Regular house legions were mostly conscripts plus a handful of death squads who did the real work. Saudaukar were a big deal because they were an professional-grade force combining skill and numbers.
Sardaukar were not literally criminals...
I don't know why I've had to say this for 8 fucking years on this website to people who boast about how they've read Dune but:
Sardaukar are not criminals.
Salusa Secundus is not a prison planet. That's a lie the Emperor tells the houses so they have no interest about the planet.
Sardaukar are natives of SS and it is a hard planet which (as per one of the themes of Dune) creates hard men.
This is all explained to Paul on like page 40 or something.
You just made that up.
There's only 2 examples of house legions in the books; Harkonnen and Atreides.
Harkonnen soldiers are described as being sadistic professional soldiers from an industrialised society built on work and bread & circuses.
Atreides soldiers are described as being indoctrinated into a cult of hero worship of Leto and being trained so well that some of them are approaching parity with the Sardaukar. This is one of the reasons outright said in the book that the Emperor probably finds Leto and House Atreides threatening.
If you read the books you'd know it started as a prison planet and overtime became more luxurious as their reputation grew (destroying their combat capabilities at the same time)
Sardukar are literally criminals, got it.
Salusa Secundus is the original House Corrino homeworld. There are prisons there because of the harsh environment, but there are also civilian populations (of which the Sarduakar are drawn).
It's likely that prisoners get a chance for "freedom" to be inducted into the sardukar by a series of trials, hence the bloodletting we see at Sarduakar ceremonies (Prisoners who failed trials).
Kaitan is where the Imperial Seat is and where House Corrino now "Officially" resides.
Basically the emperor doesn't want other houses poking into their business on Salusa Secundus, not only because of the Sarduakar, but also the planet is going to be where military research, production and development occurs for the entirety of the Empires forces, such as the Imperial Navy
Honestly, not a bad fan theory. Most elite units do eventually devolve into Potemkin units surviving on reputation and inherited honor. The Streltsy of Russia, for instance, were pretty elite, being recruited from middle class merchants, craftsmen, etc. However, the position was inherited. Your father was a Strelets, so you inherited it and became a Strelets. As these things always go, this meant that by the end, the Streltsy had deteriorated in quality.
>Most elite units do eventually devolve into Potemkin units surviving on reputation and inherited honor.
this is explicitly spelled out in later books
both Sardaukar and Fremen became weaker as time passed
their status of elite brought them many comforts and those comforts in turn bring weakness
on the other hand, hostile environment creates resourcefulness and fortitude
then again, there are certified Frank Herbert moments with ideas like military composed entirely of dominatrix are good for stability because they don't try to usurp power or something
>certified Frank Herbert moments
Turgid.
It's fairly well constructed. The Spacing Guild, the shield, and the prohibition on thinking machines aren't there by accident. Going in reverse order:
The prohibition on thinking machines makes running a large industrial society difficult. IIRC in one of the appendixes Herbert talks about how one of the effects of the ban is to eliminate non-spacing guild FTL communication. And that it's the fact that planets cannot organize due to lack of this ability that keeps the Sardaukar from being crushed by the sheer numbers that a dozen or more planets in a coalition could organize.
The Shield nullifies damn near every advance in military technology since the invention of gunpowder. Combine this with the lack of co-ordination, and you have an environment where discipline and skill can have an out-sized effect rather than setting up what Kipling described:
>A scrimmage in a Border Station-
>A canter down some dark defile
>Two thousand pounds of education
>Drops to a ten-rupee jezail
Finally the Spacing Guild limits the size of armies by charging prohibitive costs for transporting troops. Again, encouraging the development of small, elite forces, rather than mass armies.
The contrast the books make is that the Sardaukar hadn't been defeated in generations, so when things started going badly, they couldn't respond (Paul actually notes that the ones who could accept they were being beaten started fighting better). The Fremen had been living under occupation and were incredibly pragmatic. The book talks about the Fremen "reasoning with a knife" i.e. cutting off anything that doesn't work.
The Fremen had absolute faith in their religion, where the Sardaukar were cynical about theirs. The Fremen were fanatics being lead by their messiah.
Also there were way way more of the Fremen than anyone expected, and so they could organize millions of troops equal to or better than the Sardaukar, fighting on their own turf.
Good analysis
The Sardaukar also probably get used for enforcement actions and strikes where they can arrange to turn up fast after a lot of prior recon, hit the enemy before they can respond and then leave before the dust settles on the corpses. Putting the Sardaukar into Arrakis is like sending a SEAL team into WW1 trench warfare (with WW1 tech and weapons) and expecting them to perform in an outsized manner relative to WW1 troops.
Yohr analysis is nice, but it's missing the wgole "hardship breeds strong men" thing that is a really explicit theme. Herbert pushes it as a premise for his plot, and it's a suspension of disbelief contrivance kind of thing that most people will happily nod along to, not anything really grounded in reality, set or setting.
People/animals/organisms in general learning and growing through challenge is a reality since the onset off life.
You're right that that idea is an element, however, it's not the end of it. The Sardaukar are bred on Salusa Secundus, which is as or nearly as harsh as Dune. Officially Salusa Secundus is a prison planet and its link to the Sardaukar is concealed. (There's a bit where Baron Harkonnen suggests using Dune as a prison planet to an imperial envoy and Thufir nearly shits himself because he understands that what the Baron said would be taken as "I want to create my own Sardaukar legions".)
Herbert also mentions that some of the Atreidies soldiers are equivalent, one on one, to the Sardaukar, and that's what makes Paul's father a target for destruction. It's not like Herbert is asserting that this is the only way you get good troops.
Herbert digs a bit into the mechanisms of why the Fremen are strong. It's the adaptation of the Fremen to a harsh environment that makes them such ideal material to turn into an army. I'm not going to enumerate them, but over the next couple of books, Herbert shows us the Fremen culture imploding in real time. Becoming the seat of Paul's empire changes their environment, and their culture cannot adapt.
I feel like I'm not making this clear, and maybe I'm just drawing a distinction without a difference. But I think the idea in the books is less "Hardship breeds strong men" as much as it is, "Here is how and why hardship creates the potential for strength in a people."
>Herbert was a filthy hippy
He was very much a conservative, it's just that he had some painfully stupid ideas about the military
>potemkin army
Except they fucking WEREN'T. The Sardaukar absolutely destroyed the Atreades house troops to the point where they fled into the keep and got bombed by tube artillery the Harkonnens brought because no shields.
How many times do we have to find in history that being big-billy-badass warrior-caste didn't amount to shit in the right (wrong) circumstances. Also pretty sure the book mentions the use of slug throwers and how the Sardaukar were built for war among the noble houses with all the ritualism of slow-knife-penetrates-the-shield warfare rather than the dirty guerilla shit Fremen did. It's not simply a childlike /misc/ "bad place make strong man" but the longstanding view that indolent luxury weakens someone, and rustic living encourages not only fundamentals of endurance and lifestyle (Xenophon references this in Cyropedia) but also that it requires strong solidarity and esprit de corps as compared to how more comfortable living induces vertical sectarianism or "Identity" politics versus horizontal sectarianism which is "My tribe vs that tribe" (Ibn Khaldun and the Asabiyyah theory). I'm not even sure if
is a fan theory or is literally the case, as I am pretty sure there's some lines about the Sardaukar having rested on their laurels. It's the movie that plays them up as sturmtruppen gods.
Gays had a lot of bad reputation beyond just lechery back then. It's a trip to read Rise and Fall of the Third Reich because the guy who wrote it is some liberal who regrets what the Germans did to Germany but then you get a line dripping with malice like
>..its chief, Roehm, were notorious homosexual perverts. Lt. Edmund Heines, who led the munich SA, was not only a homosexual but a convicted murder. These two and dozens of others quarreled and feuded as only men of unnatural sexual incoinations, with their peculiar jealousies, can.
Either he or another and more modern author, or even Herbert himself if I am misremembering, said something along the lines of 'only a homosexual can be such a sadist'/
>the Sardukar who live and breathe fighting 24/7
They actually don't, the book makes it clear that they've gotten soft over the centuries and their prison planet isn't the death world it used to be.
They were still being ground into the dirt until Paul gave them proper tactical training (beyond suicidal personal combat) and modern weaponry
Also their gimmicks worked in the desert but wouldn't have worked offworld without once again Atreides training
It's like the Gurkhas and Kurds and Irish and so on, tough times and warrior cultures do make better basic recruit stock for soldiers, IF combined with proper training and equipment
It helps if your commander is prescient and peers through time to see the future.
>They're super tough because their world is tough
Thats the whole overarching theme so if you don't like it then you might not like dune.
>I just don't buy
It doesn't matter in this case since that specific part is based on real history.
You can argue however much you like, but there was a time in history when tribes of completely barbaric arabs suddenly united and beat the shit out of two most powerful empires in the world at the time simultaneously, proceeding to conquer whole of middle east and half of midterranean.
If you count the mongols as a tribe of barbarians emerging from the steppes then 3 times.
In fact for the roman empire "tribes of badass motherfuckers suddenly emerging from terra incognita" was basically a weekly event
who the fuck is "house Orlok"
I think there was a "House Orlok" in WH40k somewhere. It's originally the name of the vampire from the old movie "Nosferatu". No idea who they are in Dune.
Vibrating high yield mines. Maybe nuclear mines. Worm will eat them - > worm kablooey!
nerve gas
The Barron's nephew killed one just by blowing it up in the books. It's really just that easy. From what I remember he put down a thumper surrounded by a bunch of explosives then just blew it up when it ate it.
Befriend it and become the Kwisatz Haderach
I'd shove sandtrout up my ass.
The dumbest plothole in the Dune series is that nobody is smart enough to put a laze gun on a cheap ass drone to destroy entire fleets using shields. Or have a personal shield drone that shoots a laze gun at itself to cause massive explosions. There is a point in the prequels where the jihadis are suiciding themselves with laze attacks and blowing up entire battleships but even then they're too fucking stupid to just launch a laze rifle into space with a fucking rubber band around the trigger instead of blowing up their entire fleet as well.
they weren't stupid, they were morally and religiously adverse to something that could operate farther than radio signal strength's practical limits, they aren't Ixians
The shield-lasgun interaction is unpredictable.
And I think suicide no-globes get used quite extensively in chapterhouse.
>the dumbest plot hole in reality is nobody uses tactical nukes
Same shit. Incidentally, once Leto II flips the meta from default shields to default lasguns this tactic is used for planetary WMD spam in some later books
The difference is this
If ISIS could have nukes for the same price as a rifle and body armor you bet your ass they'd use them regardless of conventions
Lasguns aren't your dad's AR15. They're military grade weapons like ATGMs.
If you read the books instead of complaining about them you'd notice the nobles sleep in underground bunkers to guard against lasguns on a timer being used to nuke their house's shields too.
Las-Shield reaction is a dice roll.
If you do that kind of fuckery, you could get a firecracker or regular bomb sized pop as a result. In exchange for such an unreliable result, if found out that you were deliberately exploiting the las-shield reaction in wartime, the rest of humanity will descend on your planet and fuck your whole bloodline into the dirt.
It's essentially the nuclear option, which already exists, with all the inherent risks, while also being totally unreliable at the same time.
Dune threads are always full of the same half-dozen failed gotcha attempts by people who don't know the lore.
That isn't a plothole you fucking retard, no one wants to go around causing nuclear explosions everywhere because that shit automatically makes everyone nervous
>war is about not making people nervous
Bruh.
Finished Dune and Messiah but lost interest in Children. Am I wrong?
Everyone says that God Emperor is the best. I guess you just gotta chug along until you get there.
The prequels are unironically as good if not better than the originals. I'd read them if you haven't already. People just simp for the originals because of fanboying
I feel bad for your parents, raising a son with such shit taste.
>The prequels are unironically as good if not better than the originals
have a nice day.
The prequels are about 40 IQ points below the original.
not really, step 2 is perfectly fine
I read an edition of Chapterhouse Dune that had Frank Herbert's obituary for his spouse in it, and oddly, that obituary gave closure for the series for me. It's pretty clear from that obit, and from the fact that Frank didn't make it two years after his wife died, how big a part of his life she was, and so that ending with the old man and the old woman looking at the characters and lamenting that they got away made perfect sense.
I must be odd. I thought children of dune was the best one. Has some awesome quotes in it.
>bad guys master plan is to train two giant space tigers to want to kill children then sic them on the Leto twins
well how else are you supposed to do it?
>bad guys master plan
Paul's master plan was to keep Chani from getting tortured for the rest of her life and then die.
Leto's master plan was the Golden Path.
Wensicia barely rates as a bad guy. Probably has less than a millionth of Paul's kill count, maybe a billionth of Leto's eventual high score; hell, Farad'n even mentions how sloppy and stupid the plot actually was once he takes over House Corrino.
My general rule is to read the first two pages and see if i like a book. Brian Herbert wrote such inane legacy raping drivel i had to stop after two sentences
Good, but it leaves out option 4.5 which includes the Dune Encyclopedia, a (non) canon literal Encyclopedia for autists who want to learn about entomology, poetry, and bits and pieces of proper background lore before Brian Herbet raped it.
Reprint please.
I liked The Machine Crusade, other stuff sucks though
Messiah and Children feel very similar and it does make Children a bit of a slog up until the end. God Emperor is a huge change of pace and also fantastic. all books after that are kinda dumb. even before herbert's son took over.
No you're not
Dune alone is awesome enough
Messiah is just to finish the religious aspect of it; they were meant to be one book anyway but Messiah loses some of the tightness of the first book because it was split off and Frank padded it a bit
Children onwards is like a spinoff, what happened to the universe and so on. Which I find is pretty philosophically empty and tediously esoteric compared to the first
Frank captured lightning in a bottle once with the first book, but after that he never really got it again. He ran out of things to say IMO
Fair asessment. It's difficult enough to write a consistently good series. Tolkein took ages to work through his trilogy, but he more-or-less planned through everything well ahead of time. Herbert...I honestly am not sure just how far in advance he planned everything.
Considering the series started out as a series of short story articles that were reports on a desert planet by "the Imperial planetologist" in a magazine its fair to say Herbert may not have had the ending finalized before he started.
Yeah, a lot of the plot feels improvised. He definitely had an outline, lots of IRL inspirations, and so on, but beyond Dune Messiah it feels increasingly improvised.
He clearly intended to write one novel, Dune + Messiah, which was his take on religion, politics, governance, prescience, Messiah complex and the Middle East situation, even imperialism and colonialism
He wrapped up most of the themes except the last of the religious bits and stuck that into Messiah; supposedly his publisher balked at that last 20 or 30 thousand words. I don't know why; Dune 1 is already the size of an actual fucking brick. (I have a 70s era paperback edition.) Either way Messiah completes the Paul story.
After that it seems Frank tried to expand on the universe. But for me it lost its appeal then and there; Frank had nothing more to say on the human condition and the arc of the story had taken a far left turn away from "what if some semitic tribe got a Messiah and got good at warfare"
Actually the 70s was peak terrorism era. Libyans and Palestinians were running around shooting shit up after they realised the Israelis couldn't be beaten conventionally
And yet no nuke terrorists exist
Lasguns are hard to acquire I suppose
God Emperor still would've been a good stopping point.
Children is definitely the weakest of the first four books. I would say if you ever find yourself getting bored just skip to the next chapter. There's some good stuff in it with paul and leto that you shouldn't miss.
There's a reason people who want to get to Emperor struggle through Children.
Children was so full of pointless subplots like space tigers plotthat only dragged down the pace. And the mystical quest for the desert shithole that inhabits 5 people
Damn that bussy looks TIGHT.
High explosives to every ring segment
so you'd have to JDAM every bit of the worm
are small swords really the only way to penetrate a shield without killing everyone?
or would something like a pile bunker or power fist be able to do so by moving only at punching speed until it makes contact with the enemy and only then accelerating to lethal speeds
>pile bunker
A pile bunker is just a pile driver stop pretending to be a japanese fag.
This bothered me as well because there are multiple ways you can still bypass such a shield (chemicals, 2 stage gyro jet ammo, radiation weapons etc.) but then I realized you're not going to enjoy the books with such a mindset. The whole universe is set in the very far future where technology is viewed with distrust and everyones thought patterns are heavily influenced by tradition, religious ritual and mysticism. Innovation and scientific reasoning that we use doesn't apply in the Dune universe because that sort of thinking is heretical and morally wrong. Shit, if you whipped out your smartphone or calculator in Dune everyone around you would make an Invasion of the Bodysnatchers noise before dismembering and burning your body along with your device before committing collective suicide in a highly ritualistic fashion. It's a space opera after all so you can't scrutinize it by applying hard science sci-fi because that's not the theme.
I mean they use slowstunner darts and gas, even in just the movie, are yall that ADD and autistic? That you couldn't watch the thing for spazzing out about it?
Anyone who talks about "hard sci Fi" without reservation or irony is a massive, massive homosexual.
its a perfectly valid concept, since there is an obvious difference between something like star wars, where none of the science is explained in any capacity and its there to create sailing ship analogues in space, and gravity, which takes place entirely in earth orbit and where space travel is limited to chemical rocket boosters and orbital mechanics
You seem to have my post confused with one that would be more comfortable to your autistic brain.
I didn't say "the phrase doesn't describe anything" I said "it's an indication you're a homosexual" which it is.
Paul was right to leave, I'd be tired of shit too if people constantly misconstrued my word, my mother and my sister seethed about me constantly and my children hated me.
piss on it
You just give him one of these
What is?
Trigun
“Angel Arm” cannon
Absolutely superb taste. It's got some good gunplay, along with some of the best characters in an anime I've seen so far.
Am I a weirdo if my favorite book in the series was Messiah?
Depends
Elaborate why
>INB4 you jerk off to the idea of Paul/Alia incest
I like the idea of Paul becoming a sort of messianic leader and enjoy his ramblings far more than I do in say, children.
.45 ACP out of my Colt 1911
OP said Shai Hulud, not the whole planet of Arakis!
>somehow a very faithful adaptation
Coomers and their fucking attention to detail.
If I'm going to jerk off to something, I need to be free from distractions. Source material inaccuracy is a distraction.
Really? What about that 40k coom game? Setting is wide enough and 'your own shit' enough that you can say it isn't inaccurate.
The what now?
I mean, sadly it wasn't amazing, but it was alright.
https://www.gamesofdesire.com/3d/battle-sisters/
If you don't wanna download it.
Just makes me sad there isn't a 40k version of those Harry Potter/Disney ones from that guy I forget.
The fuck was with that apocalypse now ending?
Otherwise 7/10 only because I had to fuck a black sister
So that was lowered because black or increased? I don't care about skin color and it is rare to see.
Lowered
Fair enough, you do you. Also pretty sure she was optional.
My service to the Emperor is absolute
But here's the real question, did you go Assault or Marksman?
>What about that 40k coom game?
Please share the details
Unless it's some fucking tyranid brood egg sac shit. But share it anyway.
Hey I played this ages ago
Has it gotten anywhere beyond 0.0.0.0.0.1 alpha yet
>we never got Frenchampagne lookin' like a JoJo character
Mankind was robbed.
I still think that Ian McNeice as the Baron in the early 2000s Dune was perfect.
I stick my penis in it
Why do they bother with swords when they could just run over the other guys with steamrollers? There isn't anything a guy with melee weapons could do against that.
>lasgun
There's a reason why vehicle combat isn't a thing.
380 and good shot placement
Probably no tleilax or navigators until third movie
Love Dune, despite all its weird quirks, despite Herbert's weird personal views, or maybe because of them. Sometimes I fantasize about how I would write/rewrite/adapt the series, what I would change...
Didn't Gears of War have you killing an off-brand sandworm by chainsawing its heart?
Yadda yadda yadda, post my dominatrix waifus already.
looks like an Afghan jezail, neat
>Lee Loader built into the bolt action rifle stock
Bub’Buh’s Pissin’ Hot (Into The Stillsuit Urine Collector) Handloads
Ha you beat me to it
>miniaturized case reloading machine integrated into the stock
That's actually a pretty neat idea and it seems like there could be a way of putting something like that into current firearms tech with a thing like picrel.
>suppressed Lee Enfield jezail with reloading kit in the stock
That would actually be a insurgents wet dream weapon.
dune is overrated tbh
>t. only seen the denny villenouve film
Clone yourself as an autistic woman and make him fall in love with it. Then blow up a bridge he's crossing so he falls in a river.
Post your face when the emperor becomes restless after yet another dumb answer to his questions and he is moments away from rolling over you.
>tfw ur 5000 years old and everything bores you except for when moneo has a temporary nervous breakdown
>create and follow a plan spanning millennia
>start doubting your decision when a japanese idol is revealed to you
Real White Man moment.
Lel, Moneo is such a good side character
should I read Dune?
It's one of my all time favourite books, and it's well regarded in general
I found it absolutely gripping, once it got going I couldn't put it down, it's very weird though
Well considering the similarity in appearance id probably use the same thing i did on your moms clapped out bootyhole, given the ease of entry i wouldnt really call it a bunker penetrator though, more of a tunnel widener.
I honestly never read Dune, but don't they have orbital strike abilities? Why not just rain hell down from orbit?
It's mentioned in Dune that the Spacing guild also controls the ability to put satellites in orbit and flatly refuses to let anyone do so. Although that could be because Dune lacks the technical/industrial capability to put a rocket into space rather than a guild monopoly through the empire.
Read the book again, the Spacing Guild wont let anybody put satellites into orbit around Dune because the Fremen are bribing them with massive amounts of Hispanice because they dont want to be observed.
Which should have sent up some huge red flags, the Spacing Guild is allowed to do whatever the fuck they want and you can't stop them, but that's a particularly high level of fucky wucky behavior. Setting a mentat onto the task of figuring out who benefits from a complete no sell of all satellites on the first or second most important planet in the empire seems like it would be a no brainer for pretty much anyone with a mentat on hand.
Guild claimed Dune was special and their satellites would have been prohibitively costly
Given how special Dune was in all other respects, the explanation sufficed for a time
Fremen settlements
>Fremen are bribing them with massive amounts of Hispanice because they dont want to be observed
what are they hiding?
>/k/ has better Dune threads than PrepHole or PrepHole
fucking figures
this goes for literally every topic
The same autism but we actually know how guns works