How do you even survive against Western artillery as an individual infantryman?

>Get spotted by a tiny drone 3km+ away in the air or glowie satellite
>Enemy can blow you up in your trench, foxhole, or building from 40-70 km away with their CEP of 4m.
>Mildly higher chance of survival against their MLRS with 20m CEP but they are firing from 120km away so you likely won't even be in cover and will die anyway.
>Running is almost pointless because they can just adjust and you're going to get hit with shrapnel anyway.

This seems like a nightmare for anyone against the US or the West. You can't do anything as an individual but cower and pray to God your little stretch of land is being targeted because you will just die horribly no matter what you do unless you expand your trench and foxhole into a tunnel network where they have many other ways to precisely kill you as well.

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Isn't being targeted*.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Very easy, you stop considering survival of a single infantryman significant. Just like in starcraft, when you send marines one by one into enemy tanks/mines before you send the entire squad, you send clueless worthless mobiks to die while your actual soldiers push after the mobiks are blasted to shreds

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    They dont call artie the god of the battlefield for nothing

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The only survival tactic is to become like the vietnamese mole people

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      yeah the russians are lazy drunk Black folk and are too lazy to dig deeper trenches. wagner Black person probably could've tunnelled to bakmut by now

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      They did more than hide underground, they concealed themselves among civilians and they were hidden deep in the mountains and trees. They even had their own artillery.

      In order to destroy the enemy with artillery, you have to identify and locate the enemy first. If it's a civilian target, you will have civilian deaths. If you just start to genocide civilian women and children, the American people will not support your war and you will lose.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Don't act like the west has a monopoly on that kind of tech.
    Anyway. You can't. We will be reaching a point predicted long ago in the early 20th century, when fire supported is so quick and accurate, infantry cannot survive against it. And it doesn't require tens of km of range either, a simple mortar a mile away suffices. The future will involve lots of shrapnel-armored vehicles with CRAM capabilities to deal with it, lots of drones probing for enemy source of fire to destroy it in advance, lots of anti-drone weaponry, and a lot of smoke to conceal stuff.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Don't act like the west has a monopoly on that kind of tech.
      But dey do.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Don't act like the west has a monopoly on that kind of tech.
        yah they do.

        Belarus made a super accurate gmlrs for China a few years ago, and Russia has uragon and krasnopol. Russia's corruption means they don't have it available to most units but it's there. Not sure what quantities Belarus and China actually have

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      i've actually yet to see smoke in the ukraine videos. i'd think every tank would be burning a shit load of smoke like how every copter fires a shit load of flares

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >yet to see smoke
        you haven't seen many videos then

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        there's a video from the first 6 months of the war of a tank rolling down a road while deploying a white smokescreen, which i read at the time is apparently just burning diesel and air?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          yeah i think the 'smoke' is just a primitive spraying oil on exhaust pipe or something.

          but still, if i was a tanker in donbass, I'd have smoke pouring out my ass 24/7

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I've seen multiple videos of exhaust smoke from both sides, and exactly 1 video of the forward smoke grenade projectors being used by a small Ukr element that consisted of 1 tank and about a squad of infantry

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Smoke generators atomize diesel into a fine hot mist. It doesn't really burn.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          this is correct

          Smoke generators atomize diesel into a fine hot mist. It doesn't really burn.

          diesel mist, not burn diesel fumes.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Don't act like the west has a monopoly on that kind of tech.
      yah they do.

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >don't get spotted
    >if spotted, don't get ID'd
    >if ID'd don't get targeted
    >if targeted don't get hit
    The layers of the onion.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      So fight underground?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Your best bet is Vietcongmaxxing and you’ll still eat a 10:1 casualty rate and get napalmed every time you advance

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >Tfw sign up to fight globohomo.
          >Do all the manly training exercises.
          >Get to the front and have to hide like a b***h in stinky, wet tunnels or the troony artillery operator will kill you from 60km away.
          >Live in fear anyway because another troony in a plane came bunker buster you and end your life at any moment.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            I’m so proud of our (fem)boys

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            someone get me the meme of "manly" chinese conscripts getting cut down by drone swarms piloted by nerdy white guys

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous
      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        If you have to defend a static location, it’s probably good to use the reflective blanket layer covered with natural vegetation to hide from Thermal drones, just a guess

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >>if spotted, don't get ID'd
      >>if ID'd don't get targeted
      >>if targeted don't get hit
      HOW? Those steps seem impossible in today's world.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Welcome to "the real world" where there isn't a video game-esque counter to something as simple as "death by explosive". As an individual grunt, if you are being bracketed by artillery, you are 99.9% of the time just plain fricked. You're going to prone out, you're going to seek cover, you're going to bound out of artillery as best as you can, but you are right and utterly fricked. That's it, that's the real, shitty answer.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      luv onions

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Why is onion traveling at Mach 1

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    don't bunch up. they won't fire a guided shell at a single mobik.

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >How do you even survive against Western artillery
    Modern camouflage techniques:
    Make yourself look homosexual, or an oppressed minority.
    They literally cannot shoot you, it's against the law.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Make yourself look homosexual, or an oppressed minority.

      get new material

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Why?
        Are you saying that western countries don't value the lives of homosexuals and 'oppressed minorities' more?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Did you unironically get gay raped or something as a kid, how do you spend this much time thinking about homosexuals kek

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Maybe as a conscript

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        t. homosexual or minority

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    your scenario doesn't happen because a laser defense vehicle with IRST or radar via datalink spotted your drone and fried it

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      where do you think Putin will pull these out from considering Russians are equipping troops with weapons from 1890s?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Russia? Laser defense systems? No, but a future adversary will probably have it.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, but then the American MIC will hyper panic and skip 20 years technologically again and somehow we'll have, out of the fricking blue, some bullshit laser offense radar raper, with an either really gay or really cool nickname (no in between allowed)

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Missiles armored enough so that the laser can't ablate the armor by the time it impacts.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I half expected to see Laeffy peeking out of there.

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The only way to survive is to shoot the Monke

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    wear civilian clothes
    >inb4 geneva says no
    seethe :^)

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Actually the mobiks aren’t dying. The Russian army was defeated as a military organization last year; that doesn’t mean they no longer fight (or pretend to fight) it just means they will no longer go on major offensives or do anything very dangerous. That’s why for most of the year only separatists were fighting while RuA units were only pretending to fight (arty spam that doesn’t hit anything, inaccurate missile fires and ballistic lobbing of dumb rockets).

    The separatists either died off or were also being defeated. The mobiks were to bolster the RuA and perhaps revive it as a fighting force…didn’t happen. Now it’s Wagner’s turn.

    If Ukraine had even basic military competency I’m positive the war would be over by now.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >If Ukraine had even basic military competency I’m positive the war would be over by now.
      Honestly I feel the same, but you have to remember it had decades of soviet training and degeneration, and even after they lost that they can't just uproot 5th columnists and old ideologies right away, it takes time to adapt, and they're doing better than most post soviet states would.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Taking ground back is hard when you don't have air superiority to keep artillery from posting up on you. I do agree with you that the war is over, but I don't think the issue is Ukrainian competence. This is just 1943:Electro Boogaloo where the war has been decided and the trouble comes from not throwing away lives pointlessly in the process of getting the losing side to realize it.

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >How do you even survive against Western artillery as an individual infantryman?
    Who said you get to survive?

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    When are we going to see a fully automated fire-control system?

    >AI drone spots target
    >AI fire direction center processes all data and calculates the fire solution
    >AI artillery shoots
    >AI resupply vehicle supplies the AI artillery

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      not for ages, they'll still want a human giving a yes or no answer.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The instant an actual hot war starts that shit goes out the window anon.
        We only do that shit because of civilian casualties, but sooner or later humans wont even be needed for coin.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          they want it because AI can be finicky and they aren't going to trust if it ID'd your own dudes on accident.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            If all assets are using networking, accurate location data or identifiers then there is no problem.
            The issue you're talking about is real to some extent, but the act of having a human in the loop slows it down or limits it in other ways, thus in any proper peer war, it's a handicap that will eventually be removed for the sake of efficiency even if it ends up fragging a few freindlies along the way.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >If all assets are using networking, accurate location data or identifiers then there is no problem.
              have fun explaining why suddenly every machine in a 50km radius started attacking your infra and troops
              AI will be more of augmented reality than virtual reality

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_autonomous_weapon
        >The autonomy of current systems as of 2018 was restricted in the sense that a human gives the final command to attack—though there are exceptions with certain "defensive" systems.
        >exceptions
        It has already started.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          If all assets are using networking, accurate location data or identifiers then there is no problem.
          The issue you're talking about is real to some extent, but the act of having a human in the loop slows it down or limits it in other ways, thus in any proper peer war, it's a handicap that will eventually be removed for the sake of efficiency even if it ends up fragging a few freindlies along the way.

          Even our cannonfire will be on the grid.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >certain "defensive" systems
          What does that mean? Are they talking about AI-controlled spring guns or something?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            SAM systems like Patriot have automatic modes, mainly for the engagement of ballistic missiles but it can also be turned on for air breathing targets. The idea is that if a TBM is spotted that isn't known to the battery, it'll lock it, engage it and kill it without human intervention. If you set it to do so it will do the same thing for cruise missiles and aircraft. Aegis has a similar mode. THAAD has a similar mode, etc.

            It's because of the speeds involved really. A ship might spot an anti-ship missile a few dozen km away and that missile might be going at mach 2 or 3. It's best to not rely on an individual deciding to engage without asking first. If you know that permission would be granted regardless of circumstances, program the computer to do it autonomously.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              That actually makes sense. It isn't anywhere near as ominous as they make it sound. Do they have auto modes like that for CIWS, or is it just the long range stuff?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Essentially, as boomers who are uncomfortable with letting a computer do it's thing die, retire, or otherwise leave the command and procurement structure, things are moving further out. CWIS was one of the first systems to be automated and ever since the US destroyer got hit by a missile in Middle East because the CWIS was in the off position, it's left running pretty much 24/7 the moment they leave home port.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah CIWS has had an automatic mode forever, I believe back in the 80s an Iowa class got lit up by one that detected the ship passing by as a close target.

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >How do you even survive against Western artillery as an individual infantryman?
    >You can't do anything as an individual
    Exactly. If you’ve been reduced to the individual then whatever military organization you are a part of has failed.

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >ai completely replacing humans in warfare
    Dear God I hope America and everyone else that tries that collapse before any of that gets off the ground literally the gayest possible future if that happens

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      There was a report by the U.N. about an AI controlled Kargu-2 drone in Libya autonomously striking a human target in 2021. The cat may already be out of the bag at this point.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        It's the UN tho, so for all we know it was a grad student misreading a sales brochure.

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Distributing your forces and only concentrating them during an attack. Under those circumstances, a given individual is unlikely to be worth targeting.

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    18 inches of overhead cover.

  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    As a neverserved, I honestly thought that image was some shit from a sci fi film
    How the frick do russians think their soviet shitboxes will withstand that shit?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >a M777 is from a scifi film
      Anon by pure coolness standards the Soviets have the US beat. Look at this bad boy.

      That being said it depends on how spotting is performed and what the battery is firing. Armored vehicles are also intended to survive mortar and artillery shrapnel, with heavier armored vehicles like tanks being able to operate in very close proximity to large caliber artillery impacts without fearing immediate death.

      HE shells fired with impact fuses generally require a direct or near hit to kill a tank completely (difficult on a tank if it's moving in the open as you have to predict where it'll be when the shells impact), so most of the time a tank unit will be mobility killed and disabled (tracks being shot off which requires someone to reattach them, periscopes disabled, radio antenna shot off) before it's zoned in and focused. Airburst fuses (very old, WW2 era) have boosted lethality against armored vehicles as well, if the armored vehicle is vulnerable to shrapnel from above.

      Of course plain old HE shells are old hat now, cluster shells were all the rage during the cold war up until recently, horrendous shit. GPS guided shells exist that even the Ukrainians use with great effect (again a moving tank is fine but one that has stopped due to damage or has decided to pop in and out of a tree line? dead)

      And of course you have the smart munitions.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMArt_155
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors/Nexter_Bonus
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-purpose_improved_conventional_munition
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M982_Excalibur

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >towed piece of shit
      even the oldest counterbattery radar could frick you up, the m777 is the most destroyed western artillery platform in the war so far, clocking in at 60~ destroyed out of the 152 sent. i'd honestly rather defect than crew a towed gun in anno domini 2023

  20. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    here's the thing: you don't

  21. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Throw the shell back, what are you a pussy?

  22. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Don't be born in a country aligned against the west.
    Don't stay in a country aligned against the west.
    Don't be in the military in a country aligned against the west.
    Defect to the west at the first opportunity.

  23. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    dig trench deeper

  24. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    How does modern artillery compare to ww2 artillery?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      it can shoot further, with more sophisticated warheads, and can hit what it's aiming at.

      deadlier in every single way, except that the largest artillery is no longer as large as it once was. but it shoots further anyway.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Modern as in Western? Massive increase in range, CEP is measured in meters, and it's light enough that you can pack it up and move it within minutes to avoid the return fire.

        Ok thank you anons. I like artillery. My imperial guard army has 4 artillery pieces in it now.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Griffins or Basilisks? Actually, I don't know if Griffins are even legal anymore since I stopped playing at 4e.

          Also, we forgot to mention the coolest things. There are laser guided shells that can hit a moving target, as well as even more fun ones that deploy a bunch of submunition EFPs with their own sensors that is akin to raining down a bunch of Javelin warheads that each will pick a target and put a hole in it. I also don't think that airburst munitions were nearly as common place in WWII as they are now, but even a basic b***h shell doesn't detonate when it smacks into the ground but instead blows up at a height where it maximizes the shrapnel radius.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Actually it's one of the new ordnance batteries. It's like a heavy weapons team on steroids.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Neat, though that looks more like a field gun which is direct fire then an artillery piece which wouldn't bother with the gun shield because if it's being shot at, things have gone very wrong.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                That's odd, because it has a rule where it can fire over cover, I'll look up field guns to see what's special about them.

                In-game, it's a middle ground in armor-penetration between the missile battery (lots of low-penetrating attacks) and the heavy lascannon (one big highly penetrating attack). It's meant for taking out targets in-between, with medium armor/cover, 2 damage a piece with -2ap. Does that sound consistent with real life artillery? I don't even know how you could calculate that. This is a stupid nerd question, please bear with me.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Think of it as more akin to a cannon from the Civil War or anti-tank gun from WWII. The thing that differentiates artillery from a field gun isn't so much what it's used for as it is the type of ballistic arc that the projectile follows. Artillery would be what is defined as a howitzer. Ignore the relative ranges since they're completely wrong, but even a field gun can fire over obstacles to some extent since they still have a ballistic arc.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Modern as in Western? Massive increase in range, CEP is measured in meters, and it's light enough that you can pack it up and move it within minutes to avoid the return fire.

  25. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Stay in cities and fight in it

    There you go

  26. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Hide amongst civilians and have them try to kill you there which results in several civilian causalities and a growing anti war movement and wait for the eventual withdrawal.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >a growing anti war movement
      with AI 'news' overtaking actual news (however propagandized) and soon AI video reality is increasingly less relevant to what people believe to be true

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