>Get spotted by a tiny drone 3km+ away in the air or glowie satellite
>Enemy can blow you up in your trench, foxhole, or building from 40-70 km away with their CEP of 4m.
>Mildly higher chance of survival against their MLRS with 20m CEP but they are firing from 120km away so you likely won't even be in cover and will die anyway.
>Running is almost pointless because they can just adjust and you're going to get hit with shrapnel anyway.
This seems like a nightmare for anyone against the US or the West. You can't do anything as an individual but cower and pray to God your little stretch of land is being targeted because you will just die horribly no matter what you do unless you expand your trench and foxhole into a tunnel network where they have many other ways to precisely kill you as well.
Isn't being targeted*.
Very easy, you stop considering survival of a single infantryman significant. Just like in starcraft, when you send marines one by one into enemy tanks/mines before you send the entire squad, you send clueless worthless mobiks to die while your actual soldiers push after the mobiks are blasted to shreds
They dont call artie the god of the battlefield for nothing
The only survival tactic is to become like the vietnamese mole people
yeah the russians are lazy drunk morons and are too lazy to dig deeper trenches. wagner moron probably could've tunnelled to bakmut by now
They did more than hide underground, they concealed themselves among civilians and they were hidden deep in the mountains and trees. They even had their own artillery.
In order to destroy the enemy with artillery, you have to identify and locate the enemy first. If it's a civilian target, you will have civilian deaths. If you just start to genocide civilian women and children, the American people will not support your war and you will lose.
Don't act like the west has a monopoly on that kind of tech.
Anyway. You can't. We will be reaching a point predicted long ago in the early 20th century, when fire supported is so quick and accurate, infantry cannot survive against it. And it doesn't require tens of km of range either, a simple mortar a mile away suffices. The future will involve lots of shrapnel-armored vehicles with CRAM capabilities to deal with it, lots of drones probing for enemy source of fire to destroy it in advance, lots of anti-drone weaponry, and a lot of smoke to conceal stuff.
>Don't act like the west has a monopoly on that kind of tech.
But dey do.
Belarus made a super accurate gmlrs for China a few years ago, and Russia has uragon and krasnopol. Russia's corruption means they don't have it available to most units but it's there. Not sure what quantities Belarus and China actually have
i've actually yet to see smoke in the ukraine videos. i'd think every tank would be burning a shit load of smoke like how every copter fires a shit load of flares
>yet to see smoke
you haven't seen many videos then
there's a video from the first 6 months of the war of a tank rolling down a road while deploying a white smokescreen, which i read at the time is apparently just burning diesel and air?
yeah i think the 'smoke' is just a primitive spraying oil on exhaust pipe or something.
but still, if i was a tanker in donbass, I'd have smoke pouring out my ass 24/7
I've seen multiple videos of exhaust smoke from both sides, and exactly 1 video of the forward smoke grenade projectors being used by a small Ukr element that consisted of 1 tank and about a squad of infantry
Smoke generators atomize diesel into a fine hot mist. It doesn't really burn.
this is correct
diesel mist, not burn diesel fumes.
>Don't act like the west has a monopoly on that kind of tech.
yah they do.
>don't get spotted
>if spotted, don't get ID'd
>if ID'd don't get targeted
>if targeted don't get hit
The layers of the onion.
So fight underground?
Your best bet is Vietcongmaxxing and you’ll still eat a 10:1 casualty rate and get napalmed every time you advance
>Tfw sign up to fight globohomo.
>Do all the manly training exercises.
>Get to the front and have to hide like a bitch in stinky, wet tunnels or the chud artillery operator will kill you from 60km away.
>Live in fear anyway because another chud in a plane came bunker buster you and end your life at any moment.
I’m so proud of our (fem)boys
someone get me the meme of "manly" chinese conscripts getting cut down by drone swarms piloted by nerdy white guys
If you have to defend a static location, it’s probably good to use the reflective blanket layer covered with natural vegetation to hide from Thermal drones, just a guess
>>if spotted, don't get ID'd
>>if ID'd don't get targeted
>>if targeted don't get hit
HOW? Those steps seem impossible in today's world.
Welcome to "the real world" where there isn't a video game-esque counter to something as simple as "death by explosive". As an individual grunt, if you are being bracketed by artillery, you are 99.9% of the time just plain fucked. You're going to prone out, you're going to seek cover, you're going to bound out of artillery as best as you can, but you are right and utterly fucked. That's it, that's the real, shitty answer.
Why is onion traveling at Mach 1
don't bunch up. they won't fire a guided shell at a single mobik.
>How do you even survive against Western artillery
Modern camouflage techniques:
Make yourself look homosexual, or an oppressed minority.
They literally cannot shoot you, it's against the law.
>Make yourself look homosexual, or an oppressed minority.
get new material
Are you saying that western countries don't value the lives of homosexuals and 'oppressed minorities' more?
Did you unironically get gay raped or something as a kid, how do you spend this much time thinking about gays kek
Maybe as a conscript
t. homosexual or minority
your scenario doesn't happen because a laser defense vehicle with IRST or radar via datalink spotted your drone and fried it
where do you think Putin will pull these out from considering Russians are equipping troops with weapons from 1890s?
Russia? Laser defense systems? No, but a future adversary will probably have it.
Yeah, but then the American MIC will hyper panic and skip 20 years technologically again and somehow we'll have, out of the fucking blue, some bullshit laser offense radar raper, with an either really gay or really cool nickname (no in between allowed)
Missiles armored enough so that the laser can't ablate the armor by the time it impacts.
I half expected to see Laeffy peeking out of there.
The only way to survive is to shoot the Monke
wear civilian clothes
>inb4 geneva says no
Actually the mobiks aren’t dying. The Russian army was defeated as a military organization last year; that doesn’t mean they no longer fight (or pretend to fight) it just means they will no longer go on major offensives or do anything very dangerous. That’s why for most of the year only separatists were fighting while RuA units were only pretending to fight (arty spam that doesn’t hit anything, inaccurate missile fires and ballistic lobbing of dumb rockets).
The separatists either died off or were also being defeated. The mobiks were to bolster the RuA and perhaps revive it as a fighting force…didn’t happen. Now it’s Wagner’s turn.
If Ukraine had even basic military competency I’m positive the war would be over by now.
>If Ukraine had even basic military competency I’m positive the war would be over by now.
Honestly I feel the same, but you have to remember it had decades of soviet training and degeneration, and even after they lost that they can't just uproot 5th columnists and old ideologies right away, it takes time to adapt, and they're doing better than most post soviet states would.
Taking ground back is hard when you don't have air superiority to keep artillery from posting up on you. I do agree with you that the war is over, but I don't think the issue is Ukrainian competence. This is just 1943:Electro Boogaloo where the war has been decided and the trouble comes from not throwing away lives pointlessly in the process of getting the losing side to realize it.
>How do you even survive against Western artillery as an individual infantryman?
Who said you get to survive?
When are we going to see a fully automated fire-control system?
>AI drone spots target
>AI fire direction center processes all data and calculates the fire solution
>AI artillery shoots
>AI resupply vehicle supplies the AI artillery
not for ages, they'll still want a human giving a yes or no answer.
The instant an actual hot war starts that shit goes out the window anon.
We only do that shit because of civilian casualties, but sooner or later humans wont even be needed for coin.
they want it because AI can be finicky and they aren't going to trust if it ID'd your own dudes on accident.
If all assets are using networking, accurate location data or identifiers then there is no problem.
The issue you're talking about is real to some extent, but the act of having a human in the loop slows it down or limits it in other ways, thus in any proper peer war, it's a handicap that will eventually be removed for the sake of efficiency even if it ends up fragging a few freindlies along the way.
>If all assets are using networking, accurate location data or identifiers then there is no problem.
have fun explaining why suddenly every machine in a 50km radius started attacking your infra and troops
AI will be more of augmented reality than virtual reality
>The autonomy of current systems as of 2018 was restricted in the sense that a human gives the final command to attack—though there are exceptions with certain "defensive" systems.
It has already started.
Even our cannonfire will be on the grid.
>certain "defensive" systems
What does that mean? Are they talking about AI-controlled spring guns or something?
SAM systems like Patriot have automatic modes, mainly for the engagement of ballistic missiles but it can also be turned on for air breathing targets. The idea is that if a TBM is spotted that isn't known to the battery, it'll lock it, engage it and kill it without human intervention. If you set it to do so it will do the same thing for cruise missiles and aircraft. Aegis has a similar mode. THAAD has a similar mode, etc.
It's because of the speeds involved really. A ship might spot an anti-ship missile a few dozen km away and that missile might be going at mach 2 or 3. It's best to not rely on an individual deciding to engage without asking first. If you know that permission would be granted regardless of circumstances, program the computer to do it autonomously.
That actually makes sense. It isn't anywhere near as ominous as they make it sound. Do they have auto modes like that for CIWS, or is it just the long range stuff?
Essentially, as boomers who are uncomfortable with letting a computer do it's thing die, retire, or otherwise leave the command and procurement structure, things are moving further out. CWIS was one of the first systems to be automated and ever since the US destroyer got hit by a missile in Middle East because the CWIS was in the off position, it's left running pretty much 24/7 the moment they leave home port.
Yeah CIWS has had an automatic mode forever, I believe back in the 80s an Iowa class got lit up by one that detected the ship passing by as a close target.
>How do you even survive against Western artillery as an individual infantryman?
>You can't do anything as an individual
Exactly. If you’ve been reduced to the individual then whatever military organization you are a part of has failed.
>ai completely replacing humans in warfare
Dear God I hope America and everyone else that tries that collapse before any of that gets off the ground literally the gayest possible future if that happens
There was a report by the U.N. about an AI controlled Kargu-2 drone in Libya autonomously striking a human target in 2021. The cat may already be out of the bag at this point.
It's the UN tho, so for all we know it was a grad student misreading a sales brochure.
Distributing your forces and only concentrating them during an attack. Under those circumstances, a given individual is unlikely to be worth targeting.
18 inches of overhead cover.
As a neverserved, I honestly thought that image was some shit from a sci fi film
How the fuck do russians think their soviet shitboxes will withstand that shit?
>a M777 is from a scifi film
Anon by pure coolness standards the Soviets have the US beat. Look at this bad boy.
That being said it depends on how spotting is performed and what the battery is firing. Armored vehicles are also intended to survive mortar and artillery shrapnel, with heavier armored vehicles like tanks being able to operate in very close proximity to large caliber artillery impacts without fearing immediate death.
HE shells fired with impact fuses generally require a direct or near hit to kill a tank completely (difficult on a tank if it's moving in the open as you have to predict where it'll be when the shells impact), so most of the time a tank unit will be mobility killed and disabled (tracks being shot off which requires someone to reattach them, periscopes disabled, radio antenna shot off) before it's zoned in and focused. Airburst fuses (very old, WW2 era) have boosted lethality against armored vehicles as well, if the armored vehicle is vulnerable to shrapnel from above.
Of course plain old HE shells are old hat now, cluster shells were all the rage during the cold war up until recently, horrendous shit. GPS guided shells exist that even the Ukrainians use with great effect (again a moving tank is fine but one that has stopped due to damage or has decided to pop in and out of a tree line? dead)
And of course you have the smart munitions.
>towed piece of shit
even the oldest counterbattery radar could fuck you up, the m777 is the most destroyed western artillery platform in the war so far, clocking in at 60~ destroyed out of the 152 sent. i'd honestly rather defect than crew a towed gun in anno domini 2023
here's the thing: you don't
Throw the shell back, what are you a pussy?
Don't be born in a country aligned against the west.
Don't stay in a country aligned against the west.
Don't be in the military in a country aligned against the west.
Defect to the west at the first opportunity.
dig trench deeper
How does modern artillery compare to ww2 artillery?
it can shoot further, with more sophisticated warheads, and can hit what it's aiming at.
deadlier in every single way, except that the largest artillery is no longer as large as it once was. but it shoots further anyway.
Ok thank you anons. I like artillery. My imperial guard army has 4 artillery pieces in it now.
Griffins or Basilisks? Actually, I don't know if Griffins are even legal anymore since I stopped playing at 4e.
Also, we forgot to mention the coolest things. There are laser guided shells that can hit a moving target, as well as even more fun ones that deploy a bunch of submunition EFPs with their own sensors that is akin to raining down a bunch of Javelin warheads that each will pick a target and put a hole in it. I also don't think that airburst munitions were nearly as common place in WWII as they are now, but even a basic bitch shell doesn't detonate when it smacks into the ground but instead blows up at a height where it maximizes the shrapnel radius.
Actually it's one of the new ordnance batteries. It's like a heavy weapons team on steroids.
Neat, though that looks more like a field gun which is direct fire then an artillery piece which wouldn't bother with the gun shield because if it's being shot at, things have gone very wrong.
That's odd, because it has a rule where it can fire over cover, I'll look up field guns to see what's special about them.
In-game, it's a middle ground in armor-penetration between the missile battery (lots of low-penetrating attacks) and the heavy lascannon (one big highly penetrating attack). It's meant for taking out targets in-between, with medium armor/cover, 2 damage a piece with -2ap. Does that sound consistent with real life artillery? I don't even know how you could calculate that. This is a stupid nerd question, please bear with me.
Think of it as more akin to a cannon from the Civil War or anti-tank gun from WWII. The thing that differentiates artillery from a field gun isn't so much what it's used for as it is the type of ballistic arc that the projectile follows. Artillery would be what is defined as a howitzer. Ignore the relative ranges since they're completely wrong, but even a field gun can fire over obstacles to some extent since they still have a ballistic arc.
Modern as in Western? Massive increase in range, CEP is measured in meters, and it's light enough that you can pack it up and move it within minutes to avoid the return fire.
>Stay in cities and fight in it
There you go
Hide amongst civilians and have them try to kill you there which results in several civilian causalities and a growing anti war movement and wait for the eventual withdrawal.
>a growing anti war movement
with AI 'news' overtaking actual news (however propagandized) and soon AI video reality is increasingly less relevant to what people believe to be true