How do we stop the TYRKISH BVLL?
>The Estonian Centre for Defence Investments has awarded contracts to Turkish manufacturers Otokar and Nurol Makina to purchase roughly 230 armored vehicles for a total of about €200 million (U.S. $211 million), the agency announced.
The european defense firms are already in uproar over the decision.
only roaches cares about this
Finns seem kinda upset about this. We expected our Eesti bros to buy from us.
Beggars can't be choosers I guess since they want to arm up fast with Russia on the door.
Should've invested in CV90 though, or a German alternative in my opinion. That way the EU could standardize better.
>Euro firms in uproar
Why? Isnt that proof that the EU is just a mini cartel. If Estonia finds vehicles for the right price that suit there needs then who cares, at least they are spending on defence.
>EU could standardise better
Why? For what? As long as youre using the same ammunition thats enough.
>Why? For what? As long as youre using the same ammunition thats enough.
More factories in Europe
More shared hardware with other EU nations, so parts and replacements are interchangeable
But the french want to use french. Same good for Germany. No one wants to share their patents.
It just so turns out that most of Europe (which is a big place) uses French, American, German, Swedish or old Soviet gear. A bit of a hodgepodge, but at least most of that is still in Europe.
The CV90 has 9 euro users and one of them is Estonia, im guessing thats the most widely shared IFV in Europe and the Leo 2 15 euro users.
So imo if Estonia isnt buying a new Tank from Turkey then its irrelevant and the EU should keep its nose out.
It's not about Estonia buying turkish stuff, it's about Turkey supplying other countries with decent hardware. Having diverse suppliers of arms means independence for smaller countries which is a bad thing for some others.
>Doing EU business for the EU
>Cartel
>A group of parties, factions, or nations united in a common cause; a bloc.
Yes? That's fine. I know you mean other means of cartel, but prioritising inter European trade over external nations is perfectly rational unless they can't fullfil the order in time.
>perfectly rational unless they can't fullfil the order in time.
Or the end product is shit, which in Euro arms projects has been the case multiple times eg NH90.
Or the Euro seller will bitch out the second you try to use your new bit of kit eg Germany blocking Turkish Leo parts or the Typhoon sales
The EU is great for poor nations to level up. Military hardware and standardisation for the current timeline is just retarded, just buy from whoever is offering the best deal with the best kit and that doesnt have a ton of stings attached.
Anon, money exported is value lost.
Sweden is building a CV-90 factory in Ukraine, so I expect it will become the standard IFV for most of Central Europe. Hopefully, the Bongs buy it and that might shut warriortard up.
>Hopefully bongs will buy it
Fuck i wish. Some how the Army just pisses the biggest military budget in Europe up the wall. We could be the best customer for the Krauts or Swedes but we insist on being awkward. This doesnt happen in the Navy or Air Force just the retards in the Army, they need sacking.
Different types of vehicles, my friend. Estonia bought MRAPs and 8x8 APCs from Turkey, not tracked IFVs.
These would've been competing against vehicles like the Patria AMV, not the CV90.
just looking at the pictures, they make the right choice.
You sound like the kind of guy who buys a car because he likes the color
Estonia already uses CV90s that they bought from them from netherlands
>TYRKISH BVLL
Nobody says this. It's so easy to spot you roaches on the internet and real life too. You are almost like indians.
What modern european AV could you even get for less than a million a piece? Patria 6x6 maybe but their production relies on local production Estonia doesn't have.
Piranha on almost any of its many variants.
Romania was close to sell Piranha's to Bulgaria and Slovakia but unfortunately the government is made out of cave dwellers so the deals fell apart.
Impreççive. With this moüt recent achievement, fate has in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wönderoüs prosperity and peacefül global dominance for the türkiye grey wolf
>wolf
>not cockroach
one job
The entire point of that pasta is to make it look like it's written by a <insert cuntry here> jingoist though. Ofc they won't write roach
Anon...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_mythology#Grey_Wolf_legend
gay
the romans did it first
>The wolf symbolizes honor and is also considered the mother of most Turkic peoples...The legend tells of a young boy who survived a raid in his village. A she-wolf finds the injured child and nurses him back to health.
That legend is basic af. You'd think you're reading the lore of some cheap fantasy race where the author just ripped off the Romans.
I've hated turks after what they did to Hagia Sophia.
That webm is disturbing
t. coskun
estonia my son
it is time to buy more armored vehicles for your army
will you join up with neighbors finland and latvia to get patria 6x6, with option of local production and evolution of sisu APC you already have
or will you buy turkshit that will be slightly cheaper
...
Turkshit is a more modern design and almost certainly cheaper because they're trying to open up new markets. Is the choice not obvious?
Thanks to weak Lira Turkish workforce is really cheap for foreign customers.
>and almost certainly cheaper because they're trying to open up new markets
More like cheaper because they're garbage. Show me 1 (one) exported turkshit hardware that actually survives combat trial with decent result, I'll wait
Retard
NTA.
>all aircraft shot down
Implessive
At 0 casualties. How many human casualties did they cause Russia? Don't be a retard in public ya hear!
Whatever happened to these?
they run out of smart bombs especially designed for them and turkey didnt send more. ukraine is still using them to collect intelligence.
Now post exploding glocks
i like domestic production as much as the next guy, but is that really a feasible situation in a country of less than 1.5 million?
does estonia even have a manufacturing base?
The Baltics are the closest neighbours with the most similar threats, we should be doing all procurement together, yet it's as if we're on different sides of the world.
Yes, apparently - Latvians are doing it.
Back when the latvians signed on with the finns and it seemed likely that the estonians would as well sooner or later, a few domestic companies started seething and said that they could easily build PASI (the old ones) equivelant armoured boxes for C O M P E T E T I V E prices. A claim met with a certain levels of sceptisims since these same companies had promised to build specialized tracked vechicles on the CV90 hulls the military bought from them years ago. The results are only just now starting to be handed over and have a comical appearance and an overall air of amateurism about them. So no, I wouldn't trust them with a APC project quite yet. Maybe after a decade of experience of maintaining and repairing the new stable of armoured vechicles the military has assembled. For now I'm glad that the military went for the best deal they were offered, apparently. Hopeful they didn't get scammed by the turks.
Estonia does have an experienced and qualified small boats manufacturer and ship repair companies. Getting some domestic designs for the military from would be feasable.
Poormans Boxer
But the new version is completely superior to boxer. So much infact that Germany is thinking of getting done for amphibious stuff.
t. south balt
The military explained it like this: Estonia and Latvia were at different stages with their APC procurement/replacement processes. Estonia had just finished fulfilling their APC/IFV needs for the time being with the dutch PASI and CV90 purhcases, while the latvians were inmuch more of a hurry and need. The purchase of 200+ vechicles was in the plans of course, but deemed less important than some other precurements. The war in ukraine has increased the military budget considerably (bumping estonia into the esteemed >1B club - that is out of the micro-state league, lol), so they could push forward with this tender earlier than initially planned and held a competition last year. So while it may seem like the orders don't have a lot of time between then could have been coordinated better, in practise they were much more difficult to line up.
Who's to say that in the end that wasn't the right call? If the turkish stuff is of sufficient quality and if the weak lira meant lower price compared to the finnish stuff, then all's good?
>Patria shocked by Estonia's decision to purchase 230 armoured vehicles from Turkey for €200 million - "Everyone was surprised by the decision"
>"Yes, the decision has surprised everyone. All the countries around Estonia, Finland, Sweden, Latvia and Germany, are aiming for full interchangeability in the fleet, and Estonia is making such a decision, according to its own announcement, because of the small price difference," says Jukka Holkeri, head of Patria's Global division, blowing off steam.
https://www.talouselama.fi/uutiset/patria-tyrmistyi-viron-paatoksesta-hankkia-turkista-230-panssaroitua-ajoneuvoa-200-miljoonalla-paatosta-ovat-kaikki-ihmetelleet/22359b19-d8fe-4b39-9dd0-0e0b2a3a16a5
Did they forget that Estonia is poor as fuck? Fuck said they bought some 40 surplus CV90 and then realized they don't have the money to refurbish them.
We should include military assistance in EU aid
That way they could pay for it.
It'd also make sense in this re-armament age. More gear is better than no gear.
The EU already includes military procurement in some cases (mostly joint programs). But the gibbs are extremely unlikely to flow unless you manufacture in EU at least to a decent degree. Buying turkshit most certainly won't get you more than a pat on the back.
EU could use its gib platform to subsidize military gear inside of the EU.
>because of the small price difference
They're literally being manufactured in their two neighbours and allies - Finland and Latvia, I'm sure there's advantages in interoperability, too.
Finland manufactures fuck all. Patria land systems just announced another batch of layoffs. Their whole business model relies on selling manufacturing rights to the buyer state.
The latvian "manufacturing" seems to be more of an "assemblikg" sort of deal. So the jury is still out if and how much it would benefit the hypothetical latvian armoured vehicle production companies. Reminderthat ghe ROSOMAK didn't jumpstart a polish APC/IFV sector and that the poles are still buying any and all foreign designs they can get their hands on. Time will tell if the Patria deal will have been the better one or just a subsidization of the company by the latvian taxpayers.
poles are buying anything and everything except ifvs/apcs
That's more of a skill issue of the companies involved and less of a money issue.
Why is Patria shockedexactly? The open competition for the tender was held last year. If their product is so good then surely it would have done well. Did they perhaps forget to apply?
Isn't that CSAT's Marid APC from Arma 3?
>How do we stop the TYRKISH BVLL?
You don't. You accept the hegemony.
Buying stuff from euros
>Uhmm actually not possible you can help invest in a dozen factories because we need to save our economies somehow and maybe get 15 of them in like 15 years but dw we guarantee its gonna be an overengineered pos
Buying stuff from turks/koreans/americans
>send us the money and we'll have 500 of them shipped in a year or two
A tale as old as time
We're getting ours according to schedule
https://www.sargs.lv/lv/uznemejdarbiba-un-inovacijas/2021-09-01/patria-latvia-no-2023-gada-6x6-transportlidzekli-tiks
On paper they should be made here by this year, as means of protecting supply chains and gaining experience and crap like that. Which makes sense, if you make/assemble the things here, you won't really be able to translate that into domestic vehicles as well, but you'll have the supply chains and expertise for any serious local repairs, which is a good thing. Plus jobs.
>americans
Given how slow F-35 deliveries are, might not be the best idea to talk shit.
>how slow F-35 deliveries are
almost 1000 delivered so far
how the fuck does Estonia even have 200 million euros wtf?
inflationmachines, son!
We are getting taxed like hell, with VAT and income tax increases, a new car tax, and they are already saying we need even more new taxes in a couple of years.
Normalize delegating executive force to the EU level by letting Frontexx close the borders
Increase EU funding
Give the European defense Agency more power and set up a roadmap to have all new equipment bought by EU countries be European by 2030
create a neutral entity within the EDA that can facilitate the planning of a complete standardization of EU weapons and vehicles by 2040+ with all parts sourced domestically from Europe
Set up a committee that can accept, assess, modify and integrate offerings by private companies for parts or weapons to create a “patchwork” akin to airbus
Let economies of scale do its thing
You stink of a federalist
>230 vehicles
>$211 million
What vehicles? Even Russo refurbs/Chinkshit isn't that cheap.
4x4 amrap style cars and 6x6 amphib transporters
What kind of armored vehicle are you going to get for less than 1 million? Does this prove include parts or training? Sounds like they're going to get some REALLY cheaply made shit.
>captcha: VDVXRV
Estonian here.
Yeah, our public procurement system has been refined into a tailor made suit for taxpayer money missmanagement.
Procurements are done by office Stacies who belong into the "correct" party (reform aka turbo globalist champagne socialists) who never use or interact with what they buy, if the procurement is somehow won by the supplier who wasnt supposed to win or the designated winner somehow disqualifies themselves the SOP is to shut down the procurement, write in additional factors that favor the pre agreed winner and restart the process.
Top criteria is also the cheapest price. So seeing the best sons of the fatherland roll around in a cockroach box in the future wouldnt suprise me.