>Java
Fucking disgusting.
It's a piece of military hardware, not Abdul Pajeets bloated accounting shitware.
That shit should be written in C++ to reduce execution latency.
God I fucking hate Java, Oracle, and the incompetent retards that promote it as a viable language in the modern era where it's only usecase, being able to compile once and run on any CPU architecture, is completely fucking pointless. >inb4 muh memory management
JUST TYPE 'free(that_shit_you_dont_need)', IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD, IF YOU CAN'T REMEMBER ONE FOUR LETTER WORD YOU SHOULDN'T BE A FUCKING PROGRAMMER YOU LAZY, RETARDED, BROWN, gay.
>memory leaks >JUST TYPE 'free(that_shit_you_dont_need)', IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD, IF YOU CAN'T REMEMBER ONE FOUR LETTER WORD YOU SHOULDN'T BE A FUCKING PROGRAMMER YOU LAZY, RETARDED, BROWN, gay.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Retard still thinks he has cleaned up his pointers
Lmao, run valgrind on your shit and tell me how many leaks its found in your shitty hobby code.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Yes grandpa I'm sure your paradigm that was failing even back during imperative interpretation would work great with concurrency issues brought about by multithreading and multiple hw input sources
Please tell me about your atomic alternative to free() that I'm sure is widely accepted as a c++ standard and isn't some abomination of a procedure implemented in a compiler of your choice where you have zero clue how the assembly instructions actually ensure atomic execution
Just slap another instruction into arm/RISC based instruction sets, I'm sure it costs no meaningful silicon space
Do you also happen to still use iron sights on your M14? Just curious
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Do you also happen to still use iron sights on your M14?
Hey now, iron sights are very well defined and robust compared to the piles of barely-defined garbage your average C/C++ stack is built on.
The amount of ad-hoc behind-the-scenes fuckery it takes to make "standard" C or POSIX libraries work in a mostly consistent manner in real use kept mailing lists busy for decades.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>t. has multiple memory leaks in his code
C++ is unironically a terrible choice for their "stability"
Yes grandpa I'm sure your paradigm that was failing even back during imperative interpretation would work great with concurrency issues brought about by multithreading and multiple hw input sources
Please tell me about your atomic alternative to free() that I'm sure is widely accepted as a c++ standard and isn't some abomination of a procedure implemented in a compiler of your choice where you have zero clue how the assembly instructions actually ensure atomic execution
Just slap another instruction into arm/RISC based instruction sets, I'm sure it costs no meaningful silicon space
Do you also happen to still use iron sights on your M14? Just curious
>Do you also happen to still use iron sights on your M14?
Hey now, iron sights are very well defined and robust compared to the piles of barely-defined garbage your average C/C++ stack is built on.
The amount of ad-hoc behind-the-scenes fuckery it takes to make "standard" C or POSIX libraries work in a mostly consistent manner in real use kept mailing lists busy for decades.
are you all special ed or has std::shared_ptr not reached the Indian curriculum yet?
>multiple memory leaks in his code
It's not 2007, grandpa. Everyone uses smart pointers now and don't really care about memory management.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Smart pointers
Congrats you've invented garbage collection in a language that is not platform independent. C++ really is a bastard language
1 month ago
Anonymous
And?
1 month ago
Anonymous
If you're going to hype smart pointers literally just use Java. You get more benefits and deploy anywhere.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>use Java
It's slower. >deploy anywhere
Absolutely useless for military purposes. Also do you really think that putting JVM in specialized hardware is performance efficient?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Having worked on nuke subs running Java I can tell you for a fact it works fine you fucking troglodyte.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Nah, I am working on military UAVs, almost only C++/C for firmware. But there are few departments which use C# for automatic tests.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Yeah because no one needs a VM for firmware, that's the point of firmware low level shit. It doesn't make C/C++ anymore stable. The reason folks have swapped overwhelmingly to things like Java/Python is that a crash doesn't take down the whole system just the interpretter, leading to "crash resiliency," in low level applications like what you mentioned the hardware would be hindered by the JVM. But once again this doesn't mean your C++ GC is any better, just that you are not relying on an inbetween and any crash you have will take down the hardware instead of the VM.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>C++ GC is any better
I didn't say that C++ is any better, I just mentioned that memory leaks are not really a problem in modern standarts.
I would say that nowdays ugly template meta-programming and inhereted access vulnerabilities are most noticeable problems.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Even with UAVs java can pop up sometimes once you step away from the flight control stuff. Back in college I talked with a guy from General Atomics who was looking for Java devs to write code for some sort of predator drone payload.
>The entire interface is coded in fucking Java. Not Javascript. Basic bitch Java.
java and javascript have nothing to do with each other. and frankly it would be much more alarming to have a weapon system written in javascript
The most terrifying phrase I have ever heard professionally was a talk I went to at work where a high level engineer stated with 100% sincerity >I think the future of shipboard combat systems is full stack javascript
1 month ago
Anonymous
>shipboard combat systems is full stack javascript
ah who gives a crap at this point, in 20 years we'll be lighting candles in front of mainframes and chanting incantations to the ai gods anyways. let the botards deal with it.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I don't understand why these people are so religious about C and C++. Java works fine where you want easily maintainable code that is relatively low level.
As a rust developer I think that both sides are cretins.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Java is not a low level language and should never be used as such, but it isn't as slow as many people believe
1 month ago
Anonymous
Doesn't much of its "slowness" come from shitty enterprise frameworks that wrap everything in dozens of layers of dynamically generated virtual method calls? That was probably the only way to make those shitty bean libraries somewhat ergonomic to use, but nothing in existence can execute that garbage efficiently.
The Java Virtual Machine can be extremely fast when running code that does not resemble typical Java code at all.
The software in actual weapon systems is probably not built out of spring-boot-startup-time-exponentializer or some shit like that. I hope.
1 month ago
Anonymous
It comes from a lot of things, but ultimately the JVM is one more obstacle between the hardware and the code and it will always be slower from that. Oracle has focused on big JVM speed improvements for awhile now, but Java also is shit for licensing and that scares off plenty of folks alone
1 month ago
Anonymous
Did you know that printf() and cout<< has the same runtime in modern implementations?
You wouldn't think so because one is a (theoretically) low level function and the other is a one level higher implementation as a stream with memory sections, pipes and access control, but it's true.
The truth is that all the language we use is so abstracted - JVM or otherwise - that basic assumptions about how they're implemented can be wildly inaccurate to the reality of actual runtime.
1 month ago
Anonymous
This is a wildly unquantifiable statement. All compiled languages will be closer to hardware than interpreted. Yes we have closed a lot of gaps, but in general speed comes from well written code combo'd with far smarter folks writing tools to optimize it for you. Modern hardware does a lot of heavy lifting to make life easier.
1 month ago
Anonymous
True. Though if you write Java in a very specific way, the VM's JIT might spit out about the same machine code as a decent fast C compiler.
Some applications that absolutely need consistent performance for key tasks (but can't fall back to native code) use tricks like allocating large arrays of primitives, addressing them like stacks and sticking to simple loops and integer/float math. Code like this can execute at native-ish speeds after the JIT has had a chance to warm up.
Incidentally, these are operations the Java bytecode has specific instructions for.
As soon as you start writing so-called idiomatic Java, that perf goes out the window and soon most of the JVM's CPU time is spent chasing pointers in its garbage collector.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The code C1 produces I can read, it's a very straight forward machine code. Basically if you write better code, it will run faster. C2 is like the crazy brother of C1 but it makes shitty java code run suprisingly fast but you cannot read it no longer. The biggest problem of java are all the shitty coders writing slow code. And with slow code is like algorithms so unoptimized, it's mind boggling.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>It's slower.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I’m a principal engineer and most of my work has been in scientific computing, system software, and simulation. Now I’m working on custom rending engine forked from O3DE. And you’re a fucking midwit. Smart pointers have nothing to do with garbage collection. Moreover, C++ has far more flexibility for memory management. Most high performance software including virtually every game engine not to mention all your graphics drives use custom allocators which are each highly optimized specific use cases. This isn’t really a problem in terms of difficulty either since most of these are published, including some packaged in nice libraries. Also, performance when not IO-bound is still an order of magnitude higher with C++. Any of the things I mentioned would be at least 10x slower in Java. If anything is a possible substitute for C++ when performance matters, it’s Rust (but I prefer exceptions for error handing and you can’t change my mind). Yet another thing that makes Java shit is that it forces you into a narrow interpretation of OO programming, whereas C++ is a multi-paradigm language. Indeed, it’s not difficult to use things like template metaprogramming to create domain-specific languages right in your code. Modern C++ also has a much better concurrency model than Java and the ever growing standard library never sacrifices performance for its new features. Now some cretinous imbecile like you might claim that performance doesn’t matter as much as ease of use. That’s why we have overwrought frameworks built upon other inefficient frameworks built with shitty languages and websites that bring your browser tabs to a crawl with functionality that is 10% fancier than what ran faster on a 10x slower machine a decade ago. It’s because of the cunty opinions of garden gnome moron gays like you. Now go seethe, cope, dilate etc.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>scientific computing, system software, and simulation
yeah cool story bro, but i sleep much sounder on a plane running on java spaghetti than some c++ autistry. that doesn't mean i want everything to run on java, right tool for the job and all.
>functionality that is 10% fancier than what ran faster on a 10x slower machine a decade ago
that's the fault of users for being fucking spineless animals, if you don't complain about getting shit shoved in your face - you shouldn't be surprised when you get extra-rancid shit shoved in your face next.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>right tool for the job and all
There’s not a single job where Java isn’t a worse choice than some other language. If it’s not performance critical and you insist on garbage collection and other handholding, then still something like C# is a far better language than Java. And this is not bias due to unfamiliarity. I’ve only used Rust a bit but can appreciate that it’s a good language. But I have 18 years C++ experience and 5 each of Java and C# and a couple each of Python and Javascript. Aside from Javascript, Java is the worst language. C# is basically what Java should have been
1 month ago
Anonymous
no one's using smart pointers nor disregarding allocations in real-time systems
>Java
Fucking disgusting.
It's a piece of military hardware, not Abdul Pajeets bloated accounting shitware.
That shit should be written in C++ to reduce execution latency.
God I fucking hate Java, Oracle, and the incompetent retards that promote it as a viable language in the modern era where it's only usecase, being able to compile once and run on any CPU architecture, is completely fucking pointless. >inb4 muh memory management
JUST TYPE 'free(that_shit_you_dont_need)', IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD, IF YOU CAN'T REMEMBER ONE FOUR LETTER WORD YOU SHOULDN'T BE A FUCKING PROGRAMMER YOU LAZY, RETARDED, BROWN, gay.
Hell, guys. Until 2009, our ICBMs used 8-inch floppy disks. You're just lucky the Patriot doesn't run off of Jacquard Loom punch cards.
>The entire interface is coded in fucking Java. Not Javascript. Basic bitch Java.
java and javascript have nothing to do with each other. and frankly it would be much more alarming to have a weapon system written in javascript
>The entire interface is coded in fucking Java. Not Javascript. Basic bitch Java.
java and javascript have nothing to do with each other. and frankly it would be much more alarming to have a weapon system written in javascript
>Javascript
yeah, say what you want about java - but at least it won't try to add a number to a word and not even have the decency to tell you shit is completely fucked.
>you will never degauss your radar monitor on a regular basis
I genuinely don't understand how zoomies even fucking live without knowing the pleasure of degaussing a CRT after running a huge magnet across the screen.
No one born after 1650 got to experience the peak fire control sovl that was the combination poleaxe/gunner's quadrant.
>The dial is shaped like an axe blade and is balanced by a hammer face on the opposite side of a quadrangular socket. >A pivoted pointer or pendulum marks the degrees of elevation on a quadrant etched on the edge of the dial, this being calibrated from 1 to 12 and from 1 to 10 outwards from the centre. >The staff of rectangular section, is strengthened with steel strips running full length, these being etched with divisions headed BLEI, EISEN, STEIN, SLAGGEN, giving the diameter of lead, iron, stone and slag shot for a given weight. >The ferrule at the base of the staff has a flange cut with a V-shaped notch while the neck of the hammer face which backs the dial is pierced with a longitudinal hole to form a peep sight. The gunner sighted the target through the peep sight using the notch in the ferrule as a fore sight, the elevation being read off the scale, presumably by an assistant. The staff was then placed in the bore of the gun which was elevated until the pointer registered the same elevation on the quadrant
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-20915
Older interfaces were absolute garbage from an usability perspective and significant time is dedicated to training just for the interface. The new PATRIOT/NASAMS interface is down to click/tap on target and press button.
>training time
Maybe knuckle dragging retard grunts aren't up to the task. These systems should be manned by commissioned officers at *minimum*. Working radio isn't hard.
The new shit is overly complicated, overly engineered dogshit where field repairs are absolutely impossible and undoubtedly ridden with thousands of zero days and other nasty issues.
My trade is electronic engineering with a side of software development. I've worked adjacent to projects that the dipshit military brass eat up like cookies in a factory. I wouldn't touch anything running on software that comes out of the MIC with a ten foot pole. You people have no idea how bad this shit really is. >w-well I know a guy who uses the s-syst-
I don't give shit. Anybody who would choose the dog shit needless "modern" goyslop version deserves to experience catastrophic system failure.
Exactly this. I work in the nuclear power industry as an I&C electrical engineer. Most reactors are still using analog indicators and controls because plant managers (and the NRC) are skeptical of the reliability of digital controls.
There are a few plants which are trying to modernize controls, but the projects I know have have been going on for more than a decade with no end in sight.
the big issue I have seen with digital stuff is in cars.
basically many updates get pushed out fast, and because its so easy to push stuff out fast its easy to overlook things as well.
digital could work for nukes, but only if you approached it more like a bank and went for reliability over upgrades as much as possible.
I have some similar experience with utilities. I'm a consulting engineer on a lot of water and energy products. Getting the utility to use solid state things, vfds, PLCs, etc. is like pulling teeth. If it was up to them everything would be massive electromechanical relay control cabinets, across the line starters, dot matrix printers, etc. One utility had dual 48 fiber opgw for the transmission lines and was using maybe 25% of the fiber in a manner you would use copper. Then they paid for a Verizon FIOS connection at each station despite having the ability to have a completely secure fiber network. You eventually just give up. Only the security people like new tech.
digital controls are actually more reliable than analog ones in combat conditions
fewer moving parts, less weight
while you cant repair a microchip in the field you dont have a lathe inside the vehicle to cut out gears and axles either
that's a load of shit, my Iphone can barely scroll through twitter without shitting its self and you're gonna tell me the lowest bidder digital touch screen bullshit is going to work in combat better than some buttons
1 month ago
Anonymous
>my Iphone can barely scroll through twitter without shitting its self
That's Elon's fault not your phone
1 month ago
Anonymous
Actually it’s this gay’s fault for using twatter in the first place
>zero days
Fuck off retard, you don't know what you're talking about.
Actual software dev here. There are plenty of zero days that are used in non internet connected systems. A lot of your devices come with more options to connect to than most folks realize. Case in point you probably believe your Bluetooth is fine, but it's is trivial to brute force any Bluetooth connection and to snoop on it. Conflicker supposedly even hopped the airgapped Iranian computers over speakers broadcasting in frequencies not heard by humans.
That being said EE here really doesn't know how much work goes into a lot of US equipment to be more stable than other pieces of software, but it really doesn't matter all software contains bugs. All of it. The best you can hope for are properly designed components and that varies wildly from company to company, device to device.
Well if it helps, I did software for medical devices and felt the same way. Ironically, all the fda regulations (at least the fear of it) make the software worse because of all the bureaucracy it adds.
>These systems should be manned by commissioned officers at *minimum*.
The Russian military agrees. That's why 23% of its personnel are commissioned officers.
>The entire interface is coded in fucking Java. Not Javascript. Basic bitch Java.
java and javascript have nothing to do with each other. and frankly it would be much more alarming to have a weapon system written in javascript
What, you don't trust an engine that needs a dictionary to navigate data equivalence?
1 month ago
Anonymous
"Private soldier" covers the junior enlisted (in the US Army everything between Private E-1 and Specialist, but not Corporal which a non-commissioned rank).
1 month ago
Anonymous
No one ever has used that term to refer to lower enlisted in the entire history of the American military or the English language.
1 month ago
Anonymous
1 month ago
Anonymous
fuck wrong image
1 month ago
Anonymous
right image
1 month ago
Anonymous
1 month ago
Anonymous
1 month ago
Anonymous
>1909 >UK
yes, perfectly relevant
1 month ago
Anonymous
1 month ago
Anonymous
1 month ago
Anonymous
1 month ago
Anonymous
1 month ago
Anonymous
What the fuck do you think the rank of “private” is?
>overly engineered dogshit where field repairs are absolutely impossible
Field repairs should be confined to replacing line replaceable units and repair of harness, mounts and other such items. Works fine for aircraft (including avionics back shop).
Same, but because I can't operate capacitive touchscreens safely. Something with my body's bioelectric field, if I get even slightly agitated any screen I'm touching acts up and delivers dozens of clicks (no, it's not tremors, it does so even when I'm confirmed to not touch the device physically).
OTOH, it' funny to imagine getting pissed off when operating one of those and accidentally launching a shitload of missiles Macross-style.
or you just have weird skin.
I could do that with some free phone clicker games for a time with a certain phone.
just had to put a finger the right distance from the screen.
more fingers meant more clicks.
i don't care what anyone says. even though flat screens are objectively superior, the old tubes, analog buttons and everything else just has so much more soul
I doubt they make him do anything, he's just that kind of guy. On a serious nite I've gotten into my car a number of times while still wearing a hard hat.
The gloves are being removed and the system is almost done locking onto your radar return at which point I will visually observe your planform to ensure that you are an enemy aircraft and not a passenger aircraft or errant cloud. Then you will kneel and know your place.
>yuri, the magic washingmashine will surely safe us this time
so the spike in ring could be a huge could, birds, the enemy, or an airliner.
always makes me wonder how airliner shootdowns dont happen more often with sovietshit
You said it, tovarisch. As soon as I have dialed in the wavelength, everyone will understand everything.
The gloves are being removed and the system is almost done locking onto your radar return at which point I will visually observe your planform to ensure that you are an enemy aircraft and not a passenger aircraft or errant cloud. Then you will kneel and know your place.
Top kek, can we make this a new meme? Analogueposting, anyone?
Once I interpret the waves displayed on this oscilloscope to find the correct range, it's all over for you hoes.
I've always thought that it must suck operating a lot of heavy equipment for the military
like, yeah, you're aiming 16" battleship guns. but really you're just spinning several small knobs inside a heavily armored compartment with no windows.
>"wow, I get to drive the battleship!" >stare at a literal wall or, if you're lucky, a 4" porthole that looks directly out at another part of the ship >stand still for 8 hours and wait for people to call you on the phone and tell you to spin your wheel
what a fucking bummer
Do you know what they have to do when they sail in close formation? >Increase throttle to x revolutions >5 degrees starboard >Decrease in y revolutions >1 degree port >Increase to y revolutions >2 degrees port
And the commands come out about as fast as you're reading them and last all day and all night.
A moment of silence and reflection for wheel spinners across the fleet.
look up SAMSIM, it's where I yoinked the control panel from since I was too lazy to find an image of the Fan Song control panel and I had the manual handy. You can bash your head against Soviet SAM control panels to your heart's content.
>"wow, I get to drive the battleship!" >stare at a literal wall or, if you're lucky, a 4" porthole that looks directly out at another part of the ship >stand still for 8 hours and wait for people to call you on the phone and tell you to spin your wheel
what a fucking bummer
>"I can't believe I get to aim the main guns on a battleship!" >Your job is to turn a wheel until the two arrows on this dial overlap.
>"wow, I get to drive the battleship!" >stare at a literal wall or, if you're lucky, a 4" porthole that looks directly out at another part of the ship >stand still for 8 hours and wait for people to call you on the phone and tell you to spin your wheel
what a fucking bummer
[...] >"I can't believe I get to aim the main guns on a battleship!" >Your job is to turn a wheel until the two arrows on this dial overlap.
Giant, overly complex machines like these activate my autism. I wouldn't mind operating them all day.
dumb fact, the japanese needed 7 men to do the calculations for the rangekeeper alone
thats a huge amount of manpower saved by switching to electricity
the machine also doesnt get tired over time
after an hour of doing math during evasive maneuvers youre bound to forget to carry the one
1 month ago
Anonymous
The word "computer" has been around since the 1630s, but the first time anyone used the word to describe a machine was in 1897.
Automation cost those seven hardworking computers their jobs, Now the computers will have to worry about how their going to pay the bills. What are the computers supposed to tell their wives when they get home? "Sorry honey, but computers are obsolete and they don't need me anymore." And won't someone think of the computers' children!
soviets were always about 10-20 years behind in electronics
while the soviet one is good enough, it requires a bit of attention for the pilot to figure out direction and relative height of the threat
whereas the american one, while doing the same basic job, has much more clarity and delivers the same information in a single step
>implying it's just presentation
The US one has the ability to warn the pilot of a threat that can launch without locking onto the aircraft such as an SA-10, while also having the ability to alert the pilot of threats that DO require locking (an SA-6). The Soviet one just goes HEY ACQUISITION RADAR SOMEWHERE! with a few sources pointing out that one of the little category lights on the bottom row was tuned to high threat emitters like the Nike or Hawk. The US one could discriminate between an F-15 and F-15E.
radar is pretty weird. I've heard that a big part of radar target identification has to do with counting the number of rotor blades on an incoming aircraft.
Judging by what we've seen recently, I'd say you're probably right. My question is, how did it come to this? If they once had the capability, what happened to cause them to lose it?
Much of soviet technology was produced in puccia's vassal states.
Right before the war, Ukraine literally maintained much of puccia's Black Sea fleet and some of their ICBMs.
The old Rapier control unit was a box with lightbulbs indicating the direction of the aircraft, and literally just that. The modern unit introduced in late 90's not only replaced with a computer display for the radar showing actual position, altitude and speed, but also the ability to mark safe lanes for friendly aircraft that the system would refuse to shoot at to prevent friendly fire.
>pictures of tank battle sights in action are incredibly rare
miniaturization is a hell of a drug
the M60A3 turned a ballistic computer the size of an espresso machine down to a mr coffee coffe machine while also adding a digital display and the ability to show numbers on the screen so your attention isnt divided
the soviet mechanical computer was still about the same size, just hooked up to a laser rangefinder and working much faster
the hard part is that you still have to swap eyes between dials and the screen to make sure everything is in order
really shows how far electronics in the west started to outpace the soviets, the only comparable device they had was on the T-64B
My favorite part of the T-72 fire control computer is that the housing for the LRF had very high tolerances so the LRF aiming spot for every tank was different since you installed the LRF and then had to put a dot on the optic where the LRF was pointing at.
Yeah okay.
kino
right is souless
soul is obsolete
Souls hinder efficiency
Fair point
>right is souless
The entire interface is coded in fucking Java. Not Javascript. Basic bitch Java.
>Java
Fucking disgusting.
It's a piece of military hardware, not Abdul Pajeets bloated accounting shitware.
That shit should be written in C++ to reduce execution latency.
God I fucking hate Java, Oracle, and the incompetent retards that promote it as a viable language in the modern era where it's only usecase, being able to compile once and run on any CPU architecture, is completely fucking pointless.
>inb4 muh memory management
JUST TYPE 'free(that_shit_you_dont_need)', IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD, IF YOU CAN'T REMEMBER ONE FOUR LETTER WORD YOU SHOULDN'T BE A FUCKING PROGRAMMER YOU LAZY, RETARDED, BROWN, gay.
>t. has multiple memory leaks in his code
C++ is unironically a terrible choice for their "stability"
>memory leaks
>JUST TYPE 'free(that_shit_you_dont_need)', IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD, IF YOU CAN'T REMEMBER ONE FOUR LETTER WORD YOU SHOULDN'T BE A FUCKING PROGRAMMER YOU LAZY, RETARDED, BROWN, gay.
>Retard still thinks he has cleaned up his pointers
Lmao, run valgrind on your shit and tell me how many leaks its found in your shitty hobby code.
Yes grandpa I'm sure your paradigm that was failing even back during imperative interpretation would work great with concurrency issues brought about by multithreading and multiple hw input sources
Please tell me about your atomic alternative to free() that I'm sure is widely accepted as a c++ standard and isn't some abomination of a procedure implemented in a compiler of your choice where you have zero clue how the assembly instructions actually ensure atomic execution
Just slap another instruction into arm/RISC based instruction sets, I'm sure it costs no meaningful silicon space
Do you also happen to still use iron sights on your M14? Just curious
>Do you also happen to still use iron sights on your M14?
Hey now, iron sights are very well defined and robust compared to the piles of barely-defined garbage your average C/C++ stack is built on.
The amount of ad-hoc behind-the-scenes fuckery it takes to make "standard" C or POSIX libraries work in a mostly consistent manner in real use kept mailing lists busy for decades.
are you all special ed or has std::shared_ptr not reached the Indian curriculum yet?
>multiple memory leaks in his code
It's not 2007, grandpa. Everyone uses smart pointers now and don't really care about memory management.
>Smart pointers
Congrats you've invented garbage collection in a language that is not platform independent. C++ really is a bastard language
And?
If you're going to hype smart pointers literally just use Java. You get more benefits and deploy anywhere.
>use Java
It's slower.
>deploy anywhere
Absolutely useless for military purposes. Also do you really think that putting JVM in specialized hardware is performance efficient?
Having worked on nuke subs running Java I can tell you for a fact it works fine you fucking troglodyte.
Nah, I am working on military UAVs, almost only C++/C for firmware. But there are few departments which use C# for automatic tests.
Yeah because no one needs a VM for firmware, that's the point of firmware low level shit. It doesn't make C/C++ anymore stable. The reason folks have swapped overwhelmingly to things like Java/Python is that a crash doesn't take down the whole system just the interpretter, leading to "crash resiliency," in low level applications like what you mentioned the hardware would be hindered by the JVM. But once again this doesn't mean your C++ GC is any better, just that you are not relying on an inbetween and any crash you have will take down the hardware instead of the VM.
>C++ GC is any better
I didn't say that C++ is any better, I just mentioned that memory leaks are not really a problem in modern standarts.
I would say that nowdays ugly template meta-programming and inhereted access vulnerabilities are most noticeable problems.
Even with UAVs java can pop up sometimes once you step away from the flight control stuff. Back in college I talked with a guy from General Atomics who was looking for Java devs to write code for some sort of predator drone payload.
The most terrifying phrase I have ever heard professionally was a talk I went to at work where a high level engineer stated with 100% sincerity
>I think the future of shipboard combat systems is full stack javascript
>shipboard combat systems is full stack javascript
ah who gives a crap at this point, in 20 years we'll be lighting candles in front of mainframes and chanting incantations to the ai gods anyways. let the botards deal with it.
I don't understand why these people are so religious about C and C++. Java works fine where you want easily maintainable code that is relatively low level.
As a rust developer I think that both sides are cretins.
Java is not a low level language and should never be used as such, but it isn't as slow as many people believe
Doesn't much of its "slowness" come from shitty enterprise frameworks that wrap everything in dozens of layers of dynamically generated virtual method calls? That was probably the only way to make those shitty bean libraries somewhat ergonomic to use, but nothing in existence can execute that garbage efficiently.
The Java Virtual Machine can be extremely fast when running code that does not resemble typical Java code at all.
The software in actual weapon systems is probably not built out of spring-boot-startup-time-exponentializer or some shit like that. I hope.
It comes from a lot of things, but ultimately the JVM is one more obstacle between the hardware and the code and it will always be slower from that. Oracle has focused on big JVM speed improvements for awhile now, but Java also is shit for licensing and that scares off plenty of folks alone
Did you know that printf() and cout<< has the same runtime in modern implementations?
You wouldn't think so because one is a (theoretically) low level function and the other is a one level higher implementation as a stream with memory sections, pipes and access control, but it's true.
The truth is that all the language we use is so abstracted - JVM or otherwise - that basic assumptions about how they're implemented can be wildly inaccurate to the reality of actual runtime.
This is a wildly unquantifiable statement. All compiled languages will be closer to hardware than interpreted. Yes we have closed a lot of gaps, but in general speed comes from well written code combo'd with far smarter folks writing tools to optimize it for you. Modern hardware does a lot of heavy lifting to make life easier.
True. Though if you write Java in a very specific way, the VM's JIT might spit out about the same machine code as a decent fast C compiler.
Some applications that absolutely need consistent performance for key tasks (but can't fall back to native code) use tricks like allocating large arrays of primitives, addressing them like stacks and sticking to simple loops and integer/float math. Code like this can execute at native-ish speeds after the JIT has had a chance to warm up.
Incidentally, these are operations the Java bytecode has specific instructions for.
As soon as you start writing so-called idiomatic Java, that perf goes out the window and soon most of the JVM's CPU time is spent chasing pointers in its garbage collector.
The code C1 produces I can read, it's a very straight forward machine code. Basically if you write better code, it will run faster. C2 is like the crazy brother of C1 but it makes shitty java code run suprisingly fast but you cannot read it no longer. The biggest problem of java are all the shitty coders writing slow code. And with slow code is like algorithms so unoptimized, it's mind boggling.
>It's slower.
I’m a principal engineer and most of my work has been in scientific computing, system software, and simulation. Now I’m working on custom rending engine forked from O3DE. And you’re a fucking midwit. Smart pointers have nothing to do with garbage collection. Moreover, C++ has far more flexibility for memory management. Most high performance software including virtually every game engine not to mention all your graphics drives use custom allocators which are each highly optimized specific use cases. This isn’t really a problem in terms of difficulty either since most of these are published, including some packaged in nice libraries. Also, performance when not IO-bound is still an order of magnitude higher with C++. Any of the things I mentioned would be at least 10x slower in Java. If anything is a possible substitute for C++ when performance matters, it’s Rust (but I prefer exceptions for error handing and you can’t change my mind). Yet another thing that makes Java shit is that it forces you into a narrow interpretation of OO programming, whereas C++ is a multi-paradigm language. Indeed, it’s not difficult to use things like template metaprogramming to create domain-specific languages right in your code. Modern C++ also has a much better concurrency model than Java and the ever growing standard library never sacrifices performance for its new features. Now some cretinous imbecile like you might claim that performance doesn’t matter as much as ease of use. That’s why we have overwrought frameworks built upon other inefficient frameworks built with shitty languages and websites that bring your browser tabs to a crawl with functionality that is 10% fancier than what ran faster on a 10x slower machine a decade ago. It’s because of the cunty opinions of garden gnome moron gays like you. Now go seethe, cope, dilate etc.
>scientific computing, system software, and simulation
yeah cool story bro, but i sleep much sounder on a plane running on java spaghetti than some c++ autistry. that doesn't mean i want everything to run on java, right tool for the job and all.
>functionality that is 10% fancier than what ran faster on a 10x slower machine a decade ago
that's the fault of users for being fucking spineless animals, if you don't complain about getting shit shoved in your face - you shouldn't be surprised when you get extra-rancid shit shoved in your face next.
>right tool for the job and all
There’s not a single job where Java isn’t a worse choice than some other language. If it’s not performance critical and you insist on garbage collection and other handholding, then still something like C# is a far better language than Java. And this is not bias due to unfamiliarity. I’ve only used Rust a bit but can appreciate that it’s a good language. But I have 18 years C++ experience and 5 each of Java and C# and a couple each of Python and Javascript. Aside from Javascript, Java is the worst language. C# is basically what Java should have been
no one's using smart pointers nor disregarding allocations in real-time systems
Hell, guys. Until 2009, our ICBMs used 8-inch floppy disks. You're just lucky the Patriot doesn't run off of Jacquard Loom punch cards.
>The entire interface is coded in fucking Java. Not Javascript. Basic bitch Java.
java and javascript have nothing to do with each other. and frankly it would be much more alarming to have a weapon system written in javascript
Your entire phone is written in Java.
This.
Lol no it's not dipshit. Android makes use of a ton of low level c/c++.
Yeah fair I gave J*va a bit too much credit there. It's not good enough even for consoomer toys.
>Your entire phone is written in Java
Get the fuck out of here oracle, API and function structure/naming does NOT equate to implementation
The insinuation was that J*va is the reason modern dumbphones are shit compared to glorious symbians with physical keyboards.
Also
>he thinks Javascript would be more appropriate than Java
Actual retard.
>Javascript
yeah, say what you want about java - but at least it won't try to add a number to a word and not even have the decency to tell you shit is completely fucked.
>you will never degauss your radar monitor on a regular basis
I genuinely don't understand how zoomies even fucking live without knowing the pleasure of degaussing a CRT after running a huge magnet across the screen.
No one born after 1650 got to experience the peak fire control sovl that was the combination poleaxe/gunner's quadrant.
>The dial is shaped like an axe blade and is balanced by a hammer face on the opposite side of a quadrangular socket.
>A pivoted pointer or pendulum marks the degrees of elevation on a quadrant etched on the edge of the dial, this being calibrated from 1 to 12 and from 1 to 10 outwards from the centre.
>The staff of rectangular section, is strengthened with steel strips running full length, these being etched with divisions headed BLEI, EISEN, STEIN, SLAGGEN, giving the diameter of lead, iron, stone and slag shot for a given weight.
>The ferrule at the base of the staff has a flange cut with a V-shaped notch while the neck of the hammer face which backs the dial is pierced with a longitudinal hole to form a peep sight. The gunner sighted the target through the peep sight using the notch in the ferrule as a fore sight, the elevation being read off the scale, presumably by an assistant. The staff was then placed in the bore of the gun which was elevated until the pointer registered the same elevation on the quadrant
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-20915
Id much rather have tactile physical switches/buttons, actually.
Older interfaces were absolute garbage from an usability perspective and significant time is dedicated to training just for the interface. The new PATRIOT/NASAMS interface is down to click/tap on target and press button.
Link to video? really interested.
>tap to target, swipe to kill
what a time to be alive
you can also use a keyboard and mouse like some kind of RTS if touchscreens aren't your style.
nvm found the video
>training time
Maybe knuckle dragging retard grunts aren't up to the task. These systems should be manned by commissioned officers at *minimum*. Working radio isn't hard.
The new shit is overly complicated, overly engineered dogshit where field repairs are absolutely impossible and undoubtedly ridden with thousands of zero days and other nasty issues.
My trade is electronic engineering with a side of software development. I've worked adjacent to projects that the dipshit military brass eat up like cookies in a factory. I wouldn't touch anything running on software that comes out of the MIC with a ten foot pole. You people have no idea how bad this shit really is.
>w-well I know a guy who uses the s-syst-
I don't give shit. Anybody who would choose the dog shit needless "modern" goyslop version deserves to experience catastrophic system failure.
Exactly this. I work in the nuclear power industry as an I&C electrical engineer. Most reactors are still using analog indicators and controls because plant managers (and the NRC) are skeptical of the reliability of digital controls.
There are a few plants which are trying to modernize controls, but the projects I know have have been going on for more than a decade with no end in sight.
the big issue I have seen with digital stuff is in cars.
basically many updates get pushed out fast, and because its so easy to push stuff out fast its easy to overlook things as well.
digital could work for nukes, but only if you approached it more like a bank and went for reliability over upgrades as much as possible.
I have some similar experience with utilities. I'm a consulting engineer on a lot of water and energy products. Getting the utility to use solid state things, vfds, PLCs, etc. is like pulling teeth. If it was up to them everything would be massive electromechanical relay control cabinets, across the line starters, dot matrix printers, etc. One utility had dual 48 fiber opgw for the transmission lines and was using maybe 25% of the fiber in a manner you would use copper. Then they paid for a Verizon FIOS connection at each station despite having the ability to have a completely secure fiber network. You eventually just give up. Only the security people like new tech.
digital controls are actually more reliable than analog ones in combat conditions
fewer moving parts, less weight
while you cant repair a microchip in the field you dont have a lathe inside the vehicle to cut out gears and axles either
that's a load of shit, my Iphone can barely scroll through twitter without shitting its self and you're gonna tell me the lowest bidder digital touch screen bullshit is going to work in combat better than some buttons
>my Iphone can barely scroll through twitter without shitting its self
That's Elon's fault not your phone
Actually it’s this gay’s fault for using twatter in the first place
>zero days
Fuck off retard, you don't know what you're talking about.
>zero days
bro it's not even connected to public internet
Actual software dev here. There are plenty of zero days that are used in non internet connected systems. A lot of your devices come with more options to connect to than most folks realize. Case in point you probably believe your Bluetooth is fine, but it's is trivial to brute force any Bluetooth connection and to snoop on it. Conflicker supposedly even hopped the airgapped Iranian computers over speakers broadcasting in frequencies not heard by humans.
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/04/jumping_airgaps.html
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/scientist-developed-malware-covertly-jumps-air-gaps-using-inaudible-sound/
That being said EE here really doesn't know how much work goes into a lot of US equipment to be more stable than other pieces of software, but it really doesn't matter all software contains bugs. All of it. The best you can hope for are properly designed components and that varies wildly from company to company, device to device.
Well if it helps, I did software for medical devices and felt the same way. Ironically, all the fda regulations (at least the fear of it) make the software worse because of all the bureaucracy it adds.
me hacking the SAM system that isn't even connected to the internet somehow
>Side of software engineering
Keep it that way, your retardation wouldnt survive software development.
Enjoy your operator fatigue gay retard
>These systems should be manned by commissioned officers at *minimum*.
The Russian military agrees. That's why 23% of its personnel are commissioned officers.
>commissioned officers at *minimum*.
It goes:
Private Soldiers
Non-Commissioned Offices
Warrant Officers
Commissioned Officers
Regnant Officers (picrel)
>Private Soldiers
What, like mercenaries?
What, you don't trust an engine that needs a dictionary to navigate data equivalence?
"Private soldier" covers the junior enlisted (in the US Army everything between Private E-1 and Specialist, but not Corporal which a non-commissioned rank).
No one ever has used that term to refer to lower enlisted in the entire history of the American military or the English language.
fuck wrong image
right image
>1909
>UK
yes, perfectly relevant
What the fuck do you think the rank of “private” is?
>Regnant Officers (picrel)
For a second there I thought you said "Pregnant Officers"
Diogenes is my spirit animal.
He was the only Ancient Greek philosopher who wasn't afraid to get his dick out in public.
>overly engineered dogshit where field repairs are absolutely impossible
Field repairs should be confined to replacing line replaceable units and repair of harness, mounts and other such items. Works fine for aircraft (including avionics back shop).
What horrid shit were you afflicted with?
Same, but because I can't operate capacitive touchscreens safely. Something with my body's bioelectric field, if I get even slightly agitated any screen I'm touching acts up and delivers dozens of clicks (no, it's not tremors, it does so even when I'm confirmed to not touch the device physically).
OTOH, it' funny to imagine getting pissed off when operating one of those and accidentally launching a shitload of missiles Macross-style.
Wtf bro has a special ability
or you just have weird skin.
I could do that with some free phone clicker games for a time with a certain phone.
just had to put a finger the right distance from the screen.
more fingers meant more clicks.
Yeah, but I'd a prefer screen that can display more information and prioritize it with shit like color coding over physical switches.
i don't care what anyone says. even though flat screens are objectively superior, the old tubes, analog buttons and everything else just has so much more soul
That's a completely meaningless statement.
seething
No, it's a subjective statement regarding aesthetics. It has meaning.
>worries about the "soul" of a tool designed to kill Russians as efficiently as possible
Retard
Efficiency is no excuse for a lazy disregard for aesthetics. At least make the interior lighting red so it looks like a submarine.
I bet the left one gives you eye cancer.
Kek, they make that guy wear his helmet indoors. He went full retard.
I doubt they make him do anything, he's just that kind of guy. On a serious nite I've gotten into my car a number of times while still wearing a hard hat.
It's lined with tinfoil.
He chose this way of life.
I love how they preserved the button layout
moron for thinking you wouldn't get rekt by the first post.
>meanwhile actual 1960s Soviet shit
Kek. Fallout-tier tech.
Fallout tier is 50's-60's level tech, so it checks out
Once I interpret the waves displayed on this oscilloscope to find the correct range, it's all over for you hoes.
The gloves are being removed and the system is almost done locking onto your radar return at which point I will visually observe your planform to ensure that you are an enemy aircraft and not a passenger aircraft or errant cloud. Then you will kneel and know your place.
>yuri, the magic washingmashine will surely safe us this time
so the spike in ring could be a huge could, birds, the enemy, or an airliner.
always makes me wonder how airliner shootdowns dont happen more often with sovietshit
whats this? the firing controls?
I'm not positive, but you're probably right. Here's the equivalent for the central fire control system on a Iowa-class battleship
The downing of Malaysia Flight 17 makes a lot more sense when you realize this was the equipment they used to do it
makes even more sense when you realize russians are fucking cunts.
You said it, tovarisch. As soon as I have dialed in the wavelength, everyone will understand everything.
What's the frequency, Kenneth?
Why am I seeing a smiling alien in the big display?
What kind of devil machine is this?
I see a smiling pig-like face, I bet the hohol biolab mutants are behind this.
what did the US equivalent at the time look like?
Top kek, can we make this a new meme? Analogueposting, anyone?
>new
I've always thought that it must suck operating a lot of heavy equipment for the military
like, yeah, you're aiming 16" battleship guns. but really you're just spinning several small knobs inside a heavily armored compartment with no windows.
>"wow, I get to drive the battleship!"
>stare at a literal wall or, if you're lucky, a 4" porthole that looks directly out at another part of the ship
>stand still for 8 hours and wait for people to call you on the phone and tell you to spin your wheel
what a fucking bummer
spin the wheel, wheel spinner
I understood that reference
Do you know what they have to do when they sail in close formation?
>Increase throttle to x revolutions
>5 degrees starboard
>Decrease in y revolutions
>1 degree port
>Increase to y revolutions
>2 degrees port
And the commands come out about as fast as you're reading them and last all day and all night.
A moment of silence and reflection for wheel spinners across the fleet.
look up SAMSIM, it's where I yoinked the control panel from since I was too lazy to find an image of the Fan Song control panel and I had the manual handy. You can bash your head against Soviet SAM control panels to your heart's content.
>"I can't believe I get to aim the main guns on a battleship!"
>Your job is to turn a wheel until the two arrows on this dial overlap.
Sounds perfect for my autism, honestly.
Giant, overly complex machines like these activate my autism. I wouldn't mind operating them all day.
Then the era of electromechanical naval fire control computers would be perfect for you.
The Mark1A computer is so user friendly that continuously updating the input data can be performed by a mere seven or eight men.
kek
impressive
dumb fact, the japanese needed 7 men to do the calculations for the rangekeeper alone
thats a huge amount of manpower saved by switching to electricity
the machine also doesnt get tired over time
after an hour of doing math during evasive maneuvers youre bound to forget to carry the one
The word "computer" has been around since the 1630s, but the first time anyone used the word to describe a machine was in 1897.
Automation cost those seven hardworking computers their jobs, Now the computers will have to worry about how their going to pay the bills. What are the computers supposed to tell their wives when they get home? "Sorry honey, but computers are obsolete and they don't need me anymore." And won't someone think of the computers' children!
soviets were always about 10-20 years behind in electronics
while the soviet one is good enough, it requires a bit of attention for the pilot to figure out direction and relative height of the threat
whereas the american one, while doing the same basic job, has much more clarity and delivers the same information in a single step
>implying it's just presentation
The US one has the ability to warn the pilot of a threat that can launch without locking onto the aircraft such as an SA-10, while also having the ability to alert the pilot of threats that DO require locking (an SA-6). The Soviet one just goes HEY ACQUISITION RADAR SOMEWHERE! with a few sources pointing out that one of the little category lights on the bottom row was tuned to high threat emitters like the Nike or Hawk. The US one could discriminate between an F-15 and F-15E.
radar is pretty weird. I've heard that a big part of radar target identification has to do with counting the number of rotor blades on an incoming aircraft.
>rotor blades
*compressor blades
Supposedly its because the rotor forms a right angle with the cowling, forming a perfect shape to reflect radar
The SPO can only warn you about two threats at a time, and it will only give you detailed Info about one.
I have a theory that the RWR is actually one of the biggest problems for Ukrainian air force jets.
SOVL
kino
neato
Irreplaceable technology Russia can't produce anymore.
>technology Russia can't produce anymore
Judging by what we've seen recently, I'd say you're probably right. My question is, how did it come to this? If they once had the capability, what happened to cause them to lose it?
>what happened to cause them to lose it?
The dissolution of the Soviet Union
go on
That's all there is to it.
Much of soviet technology was produced in puccia's vassal states.
Right before the war, Ukraine literally maintained much of puccia's Black Sea fleet and some of their ICBMs.
1. That looks like an old picture. 2. It was designed in 1981 and first fielded in 1984. Sorry it doesn't look like your Nintendo switch.
The old Rapier control unit was a box with lightbulbs indicating the direction of the aircraft, and literally just that. The modern unit introduced in late 90's not only replaced with a computer display for the radar showing actual position, altitude and speed, but also the ability to mark safe lanes for friendly aircraft that the system would refuse to shoot at to prevent friendly fire.
Pff, I bet half of this isn't even running a Linux distribution. I'm bowing out my fellow PrepHoleentoomen
>pictures of tank battle sights in action are incredibly rare
miniaturization is a hell of a drug
the M60A3 turned a ballistic computer the size of an espresso machine down to a mr coffee coffe machine while also adding a digital display and the ability to show numbers on the screen so your attention isnt divided
the soviet mechanical computer was still about the same size, just hooked up to a laser rangefinder and working much faster
the hard part is that you still have to swap eyes between dials and the screen to make sure everything is in order
really shows how far electronics in the west started to outpace the soviets, the only comparable device they had was on the T-64B
My favorite part of the T-72 fire control computer is that the housing for the LRF had very high tolerances so the LRF aiming spot for every tank was different since you installed the LRF and then had to put a dot on the optic where the LRF was pointing at.
<disables all ur missile base
pfft, nothin personal earthling
F-35 uses rust btw and you're all gay