Every weapon or vehicle produced by the USSR with the exception of AK pattern rifles has been garbage. Anything of any potential value they made was done using tech stolen from the West.
>They were quite successful in Spain
the main problem in Spain was the shitfest in the republican side > Anarchist Communist and Socialist killing eachother in the rearguard, the first year with everyone doing the war against The Nationals on their own didn't help neither.
>T26 was a great tank for the time
Everything about T-26 was built under license. Tank itself was designed by Bongoloids and gun was designed by Krauts. At least they paid for license and tech transfers with those.
>RPD
shit gun, only notable for stupidly simple bolt and similarly short part life >their 12mm machine gun
Which one? the shake-yourself-apart-piece-of-shit DShK? the flimsy-overheating-can't-hit-broadside-of-the-barn NSV? or the mythical vaporware with bipod named Kord? >RPG
it's not even that good, never was either. it was just really, really cheap and coom. even in the 60s there were much better things out there, for example various recoilless rifles and the lightweight and disposable LAW.
I'll give you props for the PKM so the guy you responded to should probably expand his wording to "AK pattern weapons".
No, it fricked up a lot of colonial nations in Africa with "buy one get eleven free" deals on AKs and heavily aided the commie Vietnamese. Also keep in mind people on here are going to be very critical of AK's because of the nature of /k/ being a weapons forum, but in reality it doesn't matter *that* much.
Soviet guns in general have always been one of the few things they've ever had that were actually pretty good for how cheaply made they are, it's honestly a bit weird how they generally managed to do that one thing almost consistently well while everything else that came out of the Soviets was absolute garbage.
Just hand waving everything the Soviets made as garbage is such horseshit and really just shows you morons don't know anything outside of the typical talking points spammed on here. Read something for once guys. It fricking infuriates me to see everything boiled down to modern meme'd simplifications. Nuance was dying when armatard was the bogeyman but frick if the Ukraine war hasn't fully killed it.
Good things Soviets have made
-their rockets were pretty good for a while
-AK was revolutionary
-MiG-15 was able to achieve parity with F-86
-umm
-uhhhh
I'm pullin blanks here
T-54/55 was arguably better than the Patton. The M47 got dunked on every single time it went against T-54/55 family. The M48 did better in Israeli hands but failed in every other conflict. The M60 seems to be when Pattons finally stopped sucking.
T55 was good medium tank, operating in the niche for massed advances tactics. T70 t90 etc are just modifications that changed little. Unfortunately the absolute superiority of the t55 only lasted until the British L7 made and the t54 line onwards was obsolete Vs west. But this isn't so important USSR strategically always avoided direct western conflict due to mad. So what USSR valued the most, and this goes for all it's weapons bar AA, is cheap and reliable enough when given away to another country group of communism ideologues to destabilise the government and come to power. When USSR weapons are considered in their political role of destabilising and spreading communism they are excellently designed. The list of nations conquered by USSR weapons is vast.
Whereas western weapons whilst individually superior, are exclusively for "defense" in the strategic sense.
I was specifically comparing them to the Pattons because imho early Cold War British tanks were better than both. Centurions and their derivatives performed really well in multiple conflicts against both T-55 and Patton variants.
Soviets made good air defence systems, tanks, small arms, planes. Of course, not all of it was designed in Russia.
The Soviet ground army of the 50s-70s was better equipped than NATO including USA. Probably their big letdown was logistics, training and leadership as today but they had stuff going for them at the time.
>air defense systems
If recent performance is anything to go by, X to doubt >tanks
To an extent, also see above >small arms
ok >planes
MiG-15 was the last time the USSR had parity with the West.
>their rockets were pretty good for a while
Stolen from germs. >AK was revolutionary
same. >MiG-15 was able to achieve parity with F-86
Yeah, still stolen.
20 years of using the ww2 spoils were the peak of soviet engineering.
>Stolen from germs.
Soviets were arguably ahead of krauts in rocketry in 30's. Then they put bit over seven or so leading rocket scientists to play Stalinist game of musical chairs and denouncing. Langemak and Klemenov were shot on spot. Rest sent to Gulag, including Korolev and Glushko. When it comes to Kraut rocket scientists, only relevant guy they managed to snatch was a telemetry guy when it comes to scientists and couple production engineers. Rest managed to frick off from eastern parts of the country before Soviets came and surrendered to Yanks and Bongloids.
When it comes to aircraft and jet engines, Soviets managed to get one of leading engineers from Junkers and couple engine guys. Fun fact, turboprop engines of the noisiest aircraft ever produced serially were designed by Ferdinand Brandner, Austrian fella who was part of Nazi party long before Anschluss. Was part of freikorps from pretty much the moment WWI ended.
Soviet rockets were flat out better up until we introduced the Saturn. Mismanagement, bureaucratic squabbling, and generally getting their red asses handed to them in the moon race meant that they largely gave up on direct competition after that, although Energia/Buran was pretty cool for all three flights it had.
It's kinda shit but it's usually free and you can get a lot of it. And at the end of the day this is what matters for most poor countries. They're not going to be fighting anyone but some insurgents armed with even shittier weapons. I mean would you spend ten times the money for five F-5 when you can get fifteen MiG-21 instead when the only action either will see is flying parades?
Anything that can be built using ww2 technology and reliability maintained by borderline illiterate conscripts tends to be passable. Anything more complex tends to suck.
Though I am curious as how much of their small arms reputation comes solely from handing them out by the millions to point that all other small arms just get drowned out.
>Has Soviet arms aid always been junk
Depends on the time period in question and markets. I know we all like talking shit about the T-72 or Hind these days but from the point of view of some third world buyer the fact that you could buy them in the 1980s already was amazing. good luck convincing the US to sell you something other than a shitty Patton back then unless you're a really close ally like Israel.
Franco was fricking Chad and based and I’m tired of pretending he wasn’t
Good things Soviets have made
-their rockets were pretty good for a while
-AK was revolutionary
-MiG-15 was able to achieve parity with F-86
-umm
-uhhhh
I'm pullin blanks here
I enjoy the Katyushas and they made the germs shit themselves
Were they even in Poland at any time? I thought they fought around Leningrad until Franco pulled them back in 1943 after pressure from the States on Franco.
and aside from the meme reasons? remember that slavs are owning colt firearm company
https://fortune.com/2021/02/12/colt-firearms-bought-by-czg-ceska-zbrojovka-group/
literally the only time Soviet arms weren't junk was in 1941-44 when they had American industrialists building and running factories for them, the same industrialists who were kidnapped into Soviet citizenship. All decline from there.
>1941-1944
That period was the absolute low of Soviet production quality. There was zero quality control during WW2. Fricking look at the dog shit welding on war-time T-34s. Anything before or after looks like it was made by hyper advanced aliens by comparison.
>RDK3 >Probably means RKG3 >Shaped charge grenade meant to fall onto vehicles using a parachute as a top attack for tanks >Haphazardly whipping it at armored cars only for the car to bumper bash them 90% of the time
If anyone WAS killed by one of these, it'd have to have been an unthinkable stroke of luck for the person throwing it.
That's on par with using a javelin on a tank, but instead of having it impact the tank directly, trying to get the tank to drive into the missile.
It's only going to be a fraction as effective as it would have normally been.
Not always, but the Chinese were always better at it than the Russians.
All this kneejerk hate for anything made in Russia by tourists is just par for the course at this point.
Soviet SAMs were really good. Just ask any pilot who flew in Vietnam. Even in Ukraine, the main issue facing the Russians is training. The Ukrainians are using S300s and BUKs to great effect.
I don't think so. I think much of the success of SAMS in vietnam was due to it being their first major deployment in the field against pilots not trained to deal with the threat they posed. It wasn't a decade before Americans adapted gear to prevent getting shot at with sams and missiles to attack sam sites specifically.
Every weapon or vehicle produced by the USSR with the exception of AK pattern rifles has been garbage. Anything of any potential value they made was done using tech stolen from the West.
They were quite successful in Spain - T26 was a great tank for the time, and I-16 was a decent enough fighter.
>Anything of any potential value they made was done using tech stolen from the West.
Both of the above are examples of this.
>They were quite successful in Spain
Only in extracting Spain's entire fricking gold reserves.
>They were quite successful in Spain
the main problem in Spain was the shitfest in the republican side > Anarchist Communist and Socialist killing eachother in the rearguard, the first year with everyone doing the war against The Nationals on their own didn't help neither.
What do you expect when your ´army´ is just a collection of lumpenprole untermensch.
>T26 was a great tank for the time
Everything about T-26 was built under license. Tank itself was designed by Bongoloids and gun was designed by Krauts. At least they paid for license and tech transfers with those.
>what’s the PKM, RPD, their 12mm machine gun, and RPG
Mosin also good rifle
>PKM
Frick yeah.
Enemy Boat Spotted!
>wi shung- wi shung- wi shung
>jiji tango pudding, one bee
Ammo, here!
>he didn't exclusively play the BF2 demo for over 10 years
>RPD
shit gun, only notable for stupidly simple bolt and similarly short part life
>their 12mm machine gun
Which one? the shake-yourself-apart-piece-of-shit DShK? the flimsy-overheating-can't-hit-broadside-of-the-barn NSV? or the mythical vaporware with bipod named Kord?
>RPG
it's not even that good, never was either. it was just really, really cheap and coom. even in the 60s there were much better things out there, for example various recoilless rifles and the lightweight and disposable LAW.
I'll give you props for the PKM so the guy you responded to should probably expand his wording to "AK pattern weapons".
Dumb homosexual.
hi larxene gay
>AK pattern rifles
Even this is based on Western products
No, it fricked up a lot of colonial nations in Africa with "buy one get eleven free" deals on AKs and heavily aided the commie Vietnamese. Also keep in mind people on here are going to be very critical of AK's because of the nature of /k/ being a weapons forum, but in reality it doesn't matter *that* much.
I don't think anyone thought Soviet/Russia stuff was top quality, just affordable for third world nations.
>soviet guns are junk, our M16's will-ACK
Soviet firearms are very effective for what they are, underestimating them is how you end up dead.
pic made me chuckle
Soviet guns in general have always been one of the few things they've ever had that were actually pretty good for how cheaply made they are, it's honestly a bit weird how they generally managed to do that one thing almost consistently well while everything else that came out of the Soviets was absolute garbage.
Just hand waving everything the Soviets made as garbage is such horseshit and really just shows you morons don't know anything outside of the typical talking points spammed on here. Read something for once guys. It fricking infuriates me to see everything boiled down to modern meme'd simplifications. Nuance was dying when armatard was the bogeyman but frick if the Ukraine war hasn't fully killed it.
Good things Soviets have made
-their rockets were pretty good for a while
-AK was revolutionary
-MiG-15 was able to achieve parity with F-86
-umm
-uhhhh
I'm pullin blanks here
T-54/55 was arguably better than the Patton. The M47 got dunked on every single time it went against T-54/55 family. The M48 did better in Israeli hands but failed in every other conflict. The M60 seems to be when Pattons finally stopped sucking.
Even then the M60 didn't have any real advantage over Soviet designs until they started putting thermals in them.
T55 was good medium tank, operating in the niche for massed advances tactics. T70 t90 etc are just modifications that changed little. Unfortunately the absolute superiority of the t55 only lasted until the British L7 made and the t54 line onwards was obsolete Vs west. But this isn't so important USSR strategically always avoided direct western conflict due to mad. So what USSR valued the most, and this goes for all it's weapons bar AA, is cheap and reliable enough when given away to another country group of communism ideologues to destabilise the government and come to power. When USSR weapons are considered in their political role of destabilising and spreading communism they are excellently designed. The list of nations conquered by USSR weapons is vast.
Whereas western weapons whilst individually superior, are exclusively for "defense" in the strategic sense.
I was specifically comparing them to the Pattons because imho early Cold War British tanks were better than both. Centurions and their derivatives performed really well in multiple conflicts against both T-55 and Patton variants.
PPS was pretty good for what it took to make, seeing that it's main competitor was M3 and Sten.
Soviets made good air defence systems, tanks, small arms, planes. Of course, not all of it was designed in Russia.
The Soviet ground army of the 50s-70s was better equipped than NATO including USA. Probably their big letdown was logistics, training and leadership as today but they had stuff going for them at the time.
>air defense systems
If recent performance is anything to go by, X to doubt
>tanks
To an extent, also see above
>small arms
ok
>planes
MiG-15 was the last time the USSR had parity with the West.
>If recent performance is anything to go by, X to doubt
But Ukrainian S-300 systems are doing great.
If official stories are to be believed they have a penchant for Polish farmers
>recent performance
they suffer from being used by the fricking russians. in addition, now is not the 70s, times change and the equipment didn't.
>recent events
30 year old equipment was 30 years old 30 years ago.
>their rockets were pretty good for a while
Stolen from germs.
>AK was revolutionary
same.
>MiG-15 was able to achieve parity with F-86
Yeah, still stolen.
20 years of using the ww2 spoils were the peak of soviet engineering.
frick off moron
>American rockets
Stolen.
>T-26 Pershing
Stolen.
>AR-15
Stolen.
>Fighters
Stolen from Germany. Vgh, is there nothing stolen from the Aryan race?
>Stolen from germs.
Soviets were arguably ahead of krauts in rocketry in 30's. Then they put bit over seven or so leading rocket scientists to play Stalinist game of musical chairs and denouncing. Langemak and Klemenov were shot on spot. Rest sent to Gulag, including Korolev and Glushko. When it comes to Kraut rocket scientists, only relevant guy they managed to snatch was a telemetry guy when it comes to scientists and couple production engineers. Rest managed to frick off from eastern parts of the country before Soviets came and surrendered to Yanks and Bongloids.
When it comes to aircraft and jet engines, Soviets managed to get one of leading engineers from Junkers and couple engine guys. Fun fact, turboprop engines of the noisiest aircraft ever produced serially were designed by Ferdinand Brandner, Austrian fella who was part of Nazi party long before Anschluss. Was part of freikorps from pretty much the moment WWI ended.
Soviet rockets were flat out better up until we introduced the Saturn. Mismanagement, bureaucratic squabbling, and generally getting their red asses handed to them in the moon race meant that they largely gave up on direct competition after that, although Energia/Buran was pretty cool for all three flights it had.
submarines and space stuff
Soviet rockets were pretty good.
Ladas run forever
b8
>proving his point right
War tourist IQ is low as the fricking Moskva.
It's just knee jerk at this point. The tourists have trained themselves to see anything that goes against the groupthink as shilling by their enemy.
It's kinda shit but it's usually free and you can get a lot of it. And at the end of the day this is what matters for most poor countries. They're not going to be fighting anyone but some insurgents armed with even shittier weapons. I mean would you spend ten times the money for five F-5 when you can get fifteen MiG-21 instead when the only action either will see is flying parades?
Anything that can be built using ww2 technology and reliability maintained by borderline illiterate conscripts tends to be passable. Anything more complex tends to suck.
Though I am curious as how much of their small arms reputation comes solely from handing them out by the millions to point that all other small arms just get drowned out.
There's something to be said from what other guns were there that could be acquired in required quantities and how good those were?
They were generally speaking better than the cheapo western stuff, but rarely better than cutting-edge stuff.
The T-64 and T-72 were better than western tanks of the late 60s-70s.
>Has Soviet arms aid always been junk
Depends on the time period in question and markets. I know we all like talking shit about the T-72 or Hind these days but from the point of view of some third world buyer the fact that you could buy them in the 1980s already was amazing. good luck convincing the US to sell you something other than a shitty Patton back then unless you're a really close ally like Israel.
>killed
Doesn't looks like it's this case
Franco was fricking Chad and based and I’m tired of pretending he wasn’t
Wow, connection error made a weird double post wtf
Franco was a two faced lying dictator who needed the help of other dictatorships.
cope leftists
Yes, but he wasn't a commie, and that made him good enough to only hold your nose closed while shaking his hand.
aw, what's the matter, one of the nuns who you were trying to rape bit your needledick off?
t. leftist who chimps out when capitalist countries stop trading with commies who just stole a bunch of property claiming its economic warfare
He was a dictator but how was he lying?
Franco was fricking Chad and based and I’m tired of pretending he wasn’t
I enjoy the Katyushas and they made the germs shit themselves
didn't division azul commited numerous war crimes agains Polish civilian population during ww2?
Were they even in Poland at any time? I thought they fought around Leningrad until Franco pulled them back in 1943 after pressure from the States on Franco.
well, the route to ussr lead through Poland, and i heard that before attack on ussr they were in poland for some time
No, but if they did it was deserved
how so?
Slavs aren't human
and aside from the meme reasons? remember that slavs are owning colt firearm company
https://fortune.com/2021/02/12/colt-firearms-bought-by-czg-ceska-zbrojovka-group/
sexo sexo sexo sexo
literally the only time Soviet arms weren't junk was in 1941-44 when they had American industrialists building and running factories for them, the same industrialists who were kidnapped into Soviet citizenship. All decline from there.
>1941-1944
That period was the absolute low of Soviet production quality. There was zero quality control during WW2. Fricking look at the dog shit welding on war-time T-34s. Anything before or after looks like it was made by hyper advanced aliens by comparison.
Another moron spouting the same lines they've heard in other threads.
>RDK3
>Probably means RKG3
>Shaped charge grenade meant to fall onto vehicles using a parachute as a top attack for tanks
>Haphazardly whipping it at armored cars only for the car to bumper bash them 90% of the time
If anyone WAS killed by one of these, it'd have to have been an unthinkable stroke of luck for the person throwing it.
That's on par with using a javelin on a tank, but instead of having it impact the tank directly, trying to get the tank to drive into the missile.
It's only going to be a fraction as effective as it would have normally been.
tfw realization soviet engineers and inventors were usually Ukrainian
The moment you realize iraquis were 200% more heroic and brave than russians
Yeah. Someone post the story about the Mexican Air Force's dealings with Russia
Not always, but the Chinese were always better at it than the Russians.
All this kneejerk hate for anything made in Russia by tourists is just par for the course at this point.
THIS UGLY MOTHERFRICKER GOT PURE GOLD WITH THIS SIMPLE TRICK
Soviet SAMs were really good. Just ask any pilot who flew in Vietnam. Even in Ukraine, the main issue facing the Russians is training. The Ukrainians are using S300s and BUKs to great effect.
I don't think so. I think much of the success of SAMS in vietnam was due to it being their first major deployment in the field against pilots not trained to deal with the threat they posed. It wasn't a decade before Americans adapted gear to prevent getting shot at with sams and missiles to attack sam sites specifically.