Has America's decades-long focus on anti-insurgency warfare degraded their ability to fight a traditional war against other nations?
Preparedness & self-sufficiency community
Has America's decades-long focus on anti-insurgency warfare degraded their ability to fight a traditional war against other nations?
Name 1 country that wouldn't be insurgency tier against the might of the USA.
>Has America's decades-long focus on anti-insurgency warfare degraded their ability to fight a traditional war against other nations?
Yes, absolutely it has. T. proud american. This isn't a debateable fact it's extremely, extremely obvious and has been widely commented on. That said
- It being widely commented on is a good thing. Correction can happen.
- We're getting a real wakeup call right now without actually being directly involved (yet). We already were in the process of starting to rethink due to China but this is still "lucky" in some ways.
- "Degraded" is a relative term, we had a lot of slack to degrade from. Degraded still leaves off with a lot of effective military power to work with, just not the "nobody would even think of it" level.
China, at least in terms of going after our allies there. Relatively extremely short logistics lines count for a lot anon. DoD certainly doesn't take it for granted. Resting on one's laurels is how one loses badly.
If the US had to do some conventional traditional war against Russia or China circa 2012 then yeah, odds are there would have been misplaced priorities/assets/ect. But the US is pretty rapidly adapting back to a conventional modern footing and for another 30 or so years (1972-2002) I'd say we're safe from the politicians pushing us into another nation building occupation. Presumably some kind of climate change war shenanigans will be what pushes us back into nation-building.
With the Chinese really the only thing that concerns me is the navy. Feels like while the Army and Marines have had to be tested and keep lean and mean, the Air Force always gets spoiled rotten with money and cutting edge shit, the Navy just seems to be a nonstop parade of chucklefucking up. I don't mean spook-navy I just mean regular ol squids excluding the submariners and pilots. This isn't shitting on the navy for some branch dick measuring. It's just their lack of any wartime encounters since WW2 and all the stories of how fucked up their quality of life and stresses are right now.
>With the Chinese really the only thing that concerns me is the navy.
That's a pretty big fucking concern though.
>Feels like while the Army and Marines have had to be tested and keep lean and mean
But anon you have to GET THEM THERE, and then also keep them supplied. Which means navy is vital. Like, end of the day there is no getting around that even Pearl Harbor to Japan is like 3800 miles and to Taiwan is 5000 miles, while China it's more like 400 miles or 80 miles respectively. We have better logistics and far better fleet right now, but we have a lot further to go. Allies and various Pacific bases all help a bunch, but still we're talking way, way beyond "insugency tier". We're really going to need the people we're defending to also be able to at least hold the line well enough for us to get there, and offer real defense that we can then keep supplied and multiply.
They have going for them that even at "short" distance mountainous islands are some of the hardest possible targets to attack and easiest to fortify. But I am worried Taiwan in particular hasn't taken it seriously for a long time, and even now has continued to indulge in fancy big ticket bullshit that's completely worthless for their usecase vs going full hedgehog.
They still control the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet and if even only a quarter of their warheads worked, it would still be more than enough to do the job.
So Russia is good at war because they’ve inherited a bunch of wmds from their mommy?
Is Donald trump a good businessman because he turned his daddy’s inheritance into Russian debt and got extorted for 35 years?
>So Russia is good at war because they’ve inherited a bunch of wmds from their mommy?
Good enough, yeah.
may I see it?
I truly do not trust a thing about Russian quality of industry anymore. That's all blatantly propaganda.
Was just recently replaying Civ 5 for the first time in a while, and I had forgotten that Russia was always marketed in those sorts of games as "the industrial backbone, great builder of Things". I wonder how much the KGB and FSB worked to get that perception marketed, honestly.
Their actual bonus should be something more like
>war weariness is built-in to happiness, population suffers decreased negative effects from adverse conditions like starvation
I would not be at all surprised if they had less than a dozen operational ICBMs at the moment, and a big pile of rusted-out, decayed worthless radioactive trash they are still labeling a "war-ready nuclear arsenal"
>12 missiles is still enough!
no, honestly it is not. It is enough to cause widespread devastation that will be remembered as World War 3 in the history books and will be the most awful event in history up to that point. It is not enough for Russia to be considered successful at war, Russia as a state and people will cease to exist the moment they launch. The sole objective of war is to preserve your homeland and people. That is the devil's bargain, when you use his weapons for real, you lose the thing you were using them to protect.
God I love how the Donald lives on the mind of trannies, and is the reason behind their high suicide rates. I miss Him.
Nukes exist for when you can no longer wage a conventional war.
If Russia uses nukes literally the entire planet is destroyed so that's retarded. Nukes at this point are just a deterrent for other nukes because it's not asymmetrical anymore, everyone has them, and has a lot of them.
>If Russia uses nukes literally the entire planet is destroyed so that's retarded
No it's not. This muh apocalypse is childish and needs to stop already.
It would devastate only the countries that it hits and mostly the economy would be affected. Also it would affect the countries which heavily rely on globohomo economy so fuck them.
Self sustaining countries that were not hit by nukes will survive with little impact.
All countries depend on the global market, including your shithole. America produces food for half of the world's population.
Assuming a quarter of them work (highly unlikely) the US has enough air defense to take care of those.
>the US has enough air defense to take care of those.
AEGIS and THAAD are designed to shoot down medium and short-range ballistic missiles, not ICBMs.
90% of Russian's nukes are duds, especially the larger yield ones.
Nukes are non-convetional by nature retard.
China would whoop you
I also heard Russia would whoop Ukraine. Isn't it something like day 372 into the 3 day special military operation?
Honestly the fact there isn’t one is just that the bar is just that low because everyone else is retarded, spends basically nothing on their military, has shit gear and/or isn’t White
America still has enough Whites in the important roles (airforce etc.) and the money to throw at all the other problems that they’re better than everyone else by default
Anyone remember that US wargame where they basically had to fake the results because the American general realised you could easily take out a carrier by just swarming it with bullshit?
I wouldn't be surprised if there are other gaps like that somewhere
> General basically cheats the electonic systems we use for wargaming in a wargame and makes up bullshit all for the sake of hampering any training value
> retards parrot this forever
I know anon thats why we have to gatekeep modern naval combat from the masses.
Yes, the preplanned exercise wherein we train these soldiers to walk slowly into the meat grinder and call it a great victory is a wonderful idea. Surely our enemies will play fairly and let us track whatever they're doing at all times so we can win.
well shucks senator, if the chinese figure out how to ride bicycles faster than light and fit silkworm launchers into 14 foot rubber semi-rigid boats we're in real trouble, you're right.
Oh, I thought you meant the one where winning or losing doesn’t matter (because that’s not what large scale war games are about) because the objective was to test inter-unit datalinks. And also was twenty fucking years ago.
It's like you're training for an MMA fight for example and you're the worlds greatest kickboxer but you're not sure about your ability to grapple, so you organise a sparring match with a Jujitsu trainer with the express intent of learning breakaway techniques when he grabs you to better prepare you for your real fight.
As soon as the sparring match begins while get ready to receive his grab as agreed then his friend hits you over the back of the head with a baseball bat and he goes "BOOM BITCH ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN IN THE HOOD MUTHERFUCKA!"
This was Millenium challenge
Anon you are literally fucking retarded. Claiming you mysteriously teleported a missile swarm in out of nowhere and have lightspeed, impossible to intercept comms isn't 'winning', it's 'wasting everyone's time'.
There might be
USA still has a military budget so big that the asymetric advantage given to the enemy by the combined flaws would have to be enormous for the USA not to win.
What happens to the US military if the dollar stops being the global reserve currency? If suddenly the United States loses the ability to print the money to feed the machine? I think that, combined with over-dependency on globalized industry, is what will kill the US military machine.
In a broader sense I think that weakness is why the CIA overthrew the pro-Russian Ukranian government during the clan/k/ening, and why the installed government provoked Russia to the point of the "3-day special operation". The goal was to draw Russia into a proxy conflict with the US where the US could accomplish 3 main things:
>weaken the Russian state at the cost of older equipment and Ukranian lives (literally who cares lmao)
>create an opportunity to test equipment and modern doctrine ahead of the inevitable sino-American conflict
>bully the western and central euros firmly onto the American side
With the exception of China the BRICS nations hold the economic key to destroying the US military. Offering a reserve currency more attractive than the USD will kill the US, and the rapidly escalating multi-decade calamity of American fiscal policy is creating the opportunity. See central banks hoovering up gold, see the movement away from the USD for oil sales, see the deranged USBond yields.
The American military as it stands now would probably win any contest, hands down. We can see the dramatic consequences more-or-less indirect involvement in Ukraine has had. With the money spigots turned off? With the East in control of the money spigots AND the manufacturing? Probably not.
>dollar no longer reserve currency
>cant print more money
>china in control of money and tech
Right after winnie whips up a magical fix to their demographics, economy, food production, and chip manufacturing I’m sure you concern troll roody poo ass baka
There have been many leading currencies in history. They have all perished while people like (you) insist it's absurd and/or impossible.
There's a global problem with inflation, making the USD the "cleanest dirty shirt" to borrow a phrase. That's fine for now, just let things get a little more desperate. The Fed will either raise rates more (killing the economy and causing a greater crisis than is already unfolding) or will back off, confirming entrenched inflation is here to stay. Both outcomes reduce the attractiveness of the USD as a reserve.
What was the primary means of paying for trade for most of history?
What is China buying, to the point that they admit they've taken delivery of 3/4's of the gold that has left the COMEX in the last few years?
What are China, Russia, Brazil, and South Africa massive producers of?
What are central banks buying up at very high rates the globe over?
Eventually trade in gold will become more attractive than trade in dollars. It will probably be some silly crypto/digital-metal hybrid.
>but anon, there isn't enough gold in the world
Sure there is. The price of gold has been suppressed for 50+ years, this was confirmed in the American diplomatic cables leaked by Assange. The price of gold will adjust accordingly.
Do you really think the west is committing so much to Ukraine (the most corrupt country on the planet) just because
>invading others bad
Do you really think the Chinese balloon narrative was pushed just because
WW3 approaches. Just follow the money.
>Goldbug retard thinks any gov will give up printer power
Lol, lmao even
rates rising makes the dollar stronger.
Well, if every country suddenly pays all of its debt to the United States out of the blue, at the same time, and the entire rest of the world suddenly decides to stop using the USD for some reason at the same time, and everyone stops paying for bonds in US currency at the same time, I guess we'd have a problem.
To be more emphatic, the West (specifically the United States) will lose a protracted war with BRICS, which is what they are setting themselves up for. China simply has to stop selling them things. Western base chemical manufacturing is already hobbled by the lack of Russian natural gas, western resource extraction is hobbled by the greens. America might produce enough domestic steel to feed its arms plants, but it doesn't produce enough to feed its factories. It can scale up production of various sundries (such as pharmaceuticals, automotive parts, basic components for advanced manufacturing) but that will take years no matter how much (increasingly worthless) money is spent because the knowledge and skilled labor base isn't there. However, they can't afford to lose because it means the end of American dominion, period. That leaves us at:
>America can not lose or it perishes
>BRICS can not lose lest they be (re)subjugated to feed the appetites of the West/America
It is an existential conflict. The probability of the conflict going nuclear is accordingly rather high. The likelihood that China's plan involves destroying America's electrical infrastructure at the opening is very high, as is the probability that Three Gorges gets whacked. It's a bad time all around.
>he said, while posting on a computer made by Chinese factory workers who make $400 a month, using materials mined by Mongolians and North Koreans who get paid $100 a month.
Exactly right, anon. We have neither the industrial base nor the materials base to rapidly transition to the production of our own computer components despite these components and devices being fundamental to the operation of modern JIT logistics systems and manufacturing chains. Thank you for illustrating my point.
>We have neither the industrial base nor the materials base to rapidly transition to the production of our own computer components
Except we do. The only thing stopping that is it would cost more, meaning lower margins for business and higher cost for consumer. That's literally it.
If the writing is on the wall and need to produce our own electronics, we can and we will.
With what money? More debt that there's less and less of an appetite for? Time is running out - if we haven't started yet we're already out of time.
money is fictional
all that matters is human resources
and on that front, the west wins easily, without any serious contest
russia had some capability on that front a century ago
nowdays, its gone
the only actual smart people exist in the world are in the us, europe, and japan
everyone else is npc tier or worse (africans can't even function as npcs)
im not worried, not at all
frankly, its about time for white people to cut the crap and just genocide everyone else.
boohoo cracker too late. If it's any consolation you can fuck up the BRICS with your brown bros. Rainbow coalition bitches
that's the point he is making you stupid moron
a war involving BRICS would mean a war against your supplier of basic commercial industry
your retard arguments face no basis in face. The Hated West can buy snow shovels and pool floaties from whoever we decide
This attitude is exactly why the West is sleepwalking into the debacle.
Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa. Peripherally now we have Afghanistan, if it can be considered a country, Iran, Iraq, along with a bevy of African nations with closer economic ties to China than the West, to say nothing of the stans and mongolia. These nations represent a majority of the world's energy production. The modern world runs on energy. Ergo, the BRICS brigade wins again. Of course, the modern world also runs on large factories. Those are also primarily in the BRICS nations.
Join me in this discussion anon. What does the effete West produce that will benefit it if the war is not decided in the first month?
Russia exports quite a lot of food. Ukraine still does to an extent. The Netherlands is the largest food producer in Europe and it is actively destroying farms and productive capacity so that it can one day build a giant smart city to house morons in. America detonated a chemical weapon in the middle of some pretty prime farmland and primarily grows food on monstrous commercial farms that consume a lot of fuel (energy) and niche consumables (electronics and mechanical parts), as well as relying on the current distribution infrastructure. How long will the West's food production hold up without globalized trade?
It is worth noting that China has been stockpiling food for a while and now holds much of the world's reserves of grain, basedbeans, and rice. Lines up with your point nicely, doesn't it, like they already know it's a weak spot.
California, by itself, supplies 80% of the worlds almonds. 20% of all agriculture in california is exported out if the us. China imports 80%+ of their alfafa/hay (for cattle) from us.
I don’t think you understand how food independent we are.
Importing food from across the world is a luxury westerners indulge in, most countries eat what they grow themselves, and do a little trade with the nearest neighbors but that's it.
Is China a gross exporter or importer of food?
India is not going to side with China in an armed conflict. India is in a tricky position right now due to longstanding ties with Russia, but India sees China as their main geopolitical rival for dominance in Asia. All of India's military doctrine that isn't focused on Pakistan is about containing China.
will give up selling basedbeans and whatever else to the US so China and russia(lmfao) can be the big boys in town granting it ???
>India team up with China
doesn't have a functioning power grid
At least you can make heroin to numb the pain
>Iran Iraq team up
>bevy of African countries
Who can be bought out
To many sinophiles have this weird delusion that BRICS is as cohesive and ideologically consistent as NATO when they're really just a grab bag of (formerly depending on which ones) developing nations which wildly varying government systems/ideologies, if you think for a second Brasil is gonna actively antagonize the Western world(which it arguably is a part of) so maybe China can play big dick swinger you just have no idea the people you are dealing with
BRICS allies vs US allies, go
>the knowledge and skilled labor base i
This more than anything shows you're either full of shit or don't know shit.
The factories in China aren't designed by Chinese. The products aren't designed by Chinese. The critical and sensitive components aren't made by Chinese. They are universally designed by, made by, and made in the US and Europe.
It's why China STILL can't make a superior domestic jet engine, why their vehicles are copies of Western designs or update Soviet designs, why their steel and other materials are subpar.
The institutional knowledge and skilled labor base is still in the Western. We just use China and India to assemble the shit, and they can easily be replaced by someone else including Americans and Europeans.
Gotta build your factories, build your production machines, and rebuild your warehousing and supply lines. Great, we have the knowledge. It still won't get done nearly as fast as it would need to be, and you're high on a civilizational superiority complex if you haven't realized that by now.
>It still won't get done nearly as fast as it would need to be
How fast would it need to be?
America’s loss of our industrial base requires investment (nothing is beyond’s America’s finance ability) and, much more importantly, time to get guys trained through the trade schools. Or we bring them in from Europe for example.
But really, between us and Europe we have mostly everything taken care of. We made good money off moving base industries into Chinese slave labor but we also learned that was also a security liability. Things are getting better but it;s true we shouldn’t have let the industrial base be moved out wholesale like that,
Russia is nowhere near ready to replace chinas demand for oil in the middle east and various food imports from SEA. The US could blockade the straits of malacca and China would be fucked.
There is literally no such thing as BRICS in any meaningful way. there is no circumstance where india and Brazil and South Africa are shooting at the US. have a nice day immediately.
> if the dollar stops being the global reserve currency
Here's the problem... what currency would replace it? No other country is willing to allow their currency to float in value as much as the US does, and constant currency interventions are a good way to scare trade away. What other country has the GDP to support enough cash on the market to lubricate trade? Also, whenever China even thinks about loosening up their currency controls, billions of dollars flow out of China looking for a safe harbor, and the PRC promptly tightens their controls back up to stop the hemorrhaging. Russia's economy is the size of a minor European power, and based almost entirely upon resource extraction. Without extensive Western expertise, said extraction is going to grind to a halt in the next few years (and if Siemens, et al could be forced to stop supporting their CNC gear in Russia, their advanced manufacturing would die overnight).
And, there's a longer-term problem. Nobody had enough kids. The US is going to have serious problems for the next 20-30 years. Most other nations are going to face catastrophe, because their demographics are even *worse*. China's workforce is in the early stage of collapse (thanks, One-Child Policy!). Russia won't have enough military-aged males to even fight much of a war in 20 years--they barely do, today, and they're squandering what they *do* have.
The only real hope for the future--for *anybody*--is serious productivity gains followed by a shift in preferences towards larger families (and most governments still de facto promote regulatory policies that discourage large families as a side effect).
You remember that the dude intentionally broke the system, right? his bike couriers could convery messages instantly and his cheap boats started off super close to the carrier group, for one thing.
Yeah everyone on here remembers the war game where the butthurt Admiral used literal teleportation, instant transmission, and multi-ton weapon systems mounted on tiny little rafts that couldn’t feasibly support even a tenth of the wait he was putting on them. Pretty much the epitome of “invalid training exercise.”
Everyone also remembers the dozens of exercises that happen every year where we assume our enemies have a massive advantage, perfect logistics, perfect C2, and we still train and win…
I'm glad Van Riper still lives rent free in the minds of butthurt ESL spammers and the feds who pay them to do it.
We have discussed the fiasco that was Van The Ripper in this forum a multitude of times. The simulation wasn't ready, but the scheduled training window couldn't be postponed. Van The Ripper abused the snot out of the simulation's flaws in order to boost his own ego. The entire project almost flopped, and the military has been too afraid of a repeat to try it again, which is a shame, because there is an actual value to running a high-level exercise where the units are real and not just tokens on a map or a computer screen. For starters, it can serve as a sanity-check that the values used in simulations are actually reasonable.
China, which not only managed to stop the US "Home by Christmas Offensive", and managed to surround and rout the US military into retreating back to the 38th parallel: https://www.bbc.com/news/10162993
Anon, actually read up on the war instead of spouting Sino retardation.
>MacArthur reportedly told Truman that he was confident of early success in the North Korean offensive, and that he no longer feared Chinese intervention.
>Just 10 days later, the Chinese army, which had been secretly massing at the border, made its first attack on the allies. In the days that followed, the allies' headquarters received intelligence that Chinese forces were hidden in the North Korean mountains, but this was disregarded.
>The Chinese troops withdrew, and the allies interpreted these initial skirmishes as simply defensive. Undeterred, General MacArthur ordered a bold offensive on 24 November to push right up to the Yalu River, which marked the border between North Korea and north-east China.
>He optimistically hoped this would finish the war and allow the troops "home by Christmas". But it was instead to mark yet another turning point in the conflict. The next day, about 180,000 Chinese "volunteers" attacked.
>A shocked MacArthur told Washington: "We face an entirely new war."
>He ordered a long and humiliating retreat - performed in sub-zero temperatures - which took the troops below the 38th parallel by the end of December.
>As Chinese troops unleashed a renewed offensive, the allies were forced to withdraw south of Seoul in January 1951. Here, in the relatively open terrain of South Korea, the UN troops were better able to defend themselves. After a few more months of fighting, the front eventually stabilised in the area of the 38th parallel.
That offensive was an utter and complete fuckup for China. Chosin alone was an unmitigated disaster.
>>In early 1951 the Chinese offensive lost its momentum and the UNC, bolstered by the revitalized 8th U.S. Army led by General Matthew B. Ridgway, retook Seoul and advanced back to the 38th parallel. From July 1951, until the end of hostilities the battle lines remained relatively stable and the conflict became a stalemate.
>can't defeat a few thousand UN troops after a massive human wave attack
>runs out of steam in 1951 and retreat
>South Korea exists till this day
Seethe and cope about getting dabbed on by a few UN troops, chink.
>The original plan for Operation Showdown called for simultaneous attacks on both Triangle Hill and Sniper Ridge. One battalion from the US 31st Infantry Regiment, 7th Infantry Division would take Triangle Hill from Gimhwa-eup, while one battalion from the ROK 32nd Regiment, 2nd Infantry Division would attack Sniper Ridge along a parallel northbound route. UN planners expected the operation to last no more than five days with 200 casualties on the UN side
>The immediate UN objective was Triangle Hill (38°19′17″N 127°27′52″E), a forested ridge of high ground 2 kilometers (1.2 mi) north of Gimhwa-eup. The hill was occupied by the veterans of the PVA's 15th Corps. Over the course of nearly a month, substantial US and Republic of Korea Army (ROK) forces made repeated attempts to capture Triangle Hill and the adjacent Sniper Ridge. Despite clear superiority in artillery and aircraft, the escalating UN casualties resulted in the attack being halted after 42 days of fighting, with PVA forces regaining their original positions.
This is perfect proof that the US military would also have fared poorly just like the Russians right now against the Ukrainian entrenched positions, since the US infantry can't win if their enemy doesn't just surrender after heavy airstrikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Triangle_Hill
Funny how the US suffered this battle loss and it's part of the reason why they don't like putting boots on the ground until they own the air. It's unfortunate the Korean War did not end in the collapse of China but it gave the US a lot of experience to be studied. Wait, the US/UN goal was to protect SK and SK still exists. Damn, I guess the US won the Korean War.
All that image does is demonstrate that South Korea ended up with more territory at the of the war than they started with.
>chinese face status: lost
Name a more impressive flanking manuver done by just light infantry on foot against a motorised/mechanised force
>If I just send overwhelming forces of men south into unprepared American positions and call it flaking it's impressive
>Ill launch a suprise attack with a corps sized formation with the express intention of cutting off and destroying the 1st Marine division
>oh shit the 1st Marine Division fought its way out
>oh shit, while fighting its way out it destroyed 4 of my divisions
>oh shit, my corps is now so utterly shotout after just 5 days of combat that the Marines can do a naval evacuation at their own leisure
>so leisurely that they could take 90 000 North Koreans with them
>holy fuck this entire operation was pointless because 1st Marines would have to withdraw anyway because 8th Army was withdrawing
They could have achieved the exact same outcome without firing a single fucking shot.
That's what the Ukrainians did in their Kharkov offensive, and the Russians said the same thing as you did, their position was not fortified and the Ukrainians outnumbered then so they had to retreat. But they killed gorillion Ukrainians in the process so they were not defeated (the same cope that the US uses about Its failures in North Korea)
China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, India, Pakistan, you must lack imagination.
A standing army from an established state is a conventional army.
The established Afghan Army was an ally of the US against the insurgent Taliban, but the ANA also raped boys according to American intelligence so you know the Taliban weren't just evil people being evil for the sake of being evil, they were literally nationalist militias defending their land from foreign invaders.
>nationalist militias defending their land
damn sounds very familiar doesn't it, no wonder the feds are running domestic insurgent war games, they know they are on the wrong side of history
>UH the heckin based Taliban raped little girls instead of boys so that means it's ok for them to bomb hotels and market places
The Taliban execute rapists you dipshit, their entire movement was started by 50 armed madrassah students who went out and started executing Mujahideen warlords who were kidnapping girls and boys to rape.
>What is child marriage
>he doesn't know
They started that way. Within a decade they were back to the normal Afghan buggery. Afghans don't like western trad shit any more than they like the woke shit.
Christianity was started by a brown socialist hippy that was executed by the state and turned into a white anti-socialist statist pederasty cult. Weird how time is entropy huh
>The Taliban execute rapists you dipshit
Why don't they just kill the Pedos instead of pirel anon? Why do you lie?
What are you doing here?
The Future Humans that keep having sent back UAPs to fuck with us
China. It would be pest control instead.
None will fight the USA directly. They go for sattelite nations, once America is surrounded, it's over.
The Taliban literally won
And? Name one country that could manage to do any better than hiding in caves annd tricking virgins to blow themselves up and waiting for the Americans to get bored and leave?
Like do you guys not understand the difference between military operations and politics? The Taliban won because American politics decided it was a waste of time and money, not because of any level of military superiority.
Given that Russia was the 2ND APMY and is currently shitting the bed against mini-Russia that got like 5 years of NATO training and a bunch of cast off weapons I feel pretty safe in a conventional war.
not many will get this reference im afraid
I thought most people knew P is R is cyrillic
Somewhat, which is why the US military has been changing its training and equipment around somewhat recently. But at the end of the day, US air and naval dominance makes it completely peerless
Russia will look like insurgents when faced against the American might
not great reps, but better than nothing at all (looking at you china)
The thing that the USA really lacks is experience with amphibious warfare. All of the lessons learned in WW2 are long obsolete, and the US has only done a handful of minor "amphibious" operations here and there since. The actual art of taking and holding an island are long overdue for an update
> The thing that the USA really lacks is experience with amphibious warfare
Having grown up in Virginia Beach I gotta call bullshit on that one. Literally who is spending half as much time blowing random shit up and doing sneaky spooky training than the US in the Chesapeake Bay every goddamn night of my life?
Like literally who is anywhere close to what the us marines and SEALS and the rest of the useful SF are capable of? Like do you have any idea how much expensive spooky shit those bozos are doing every goddamn day?
I meant actual warfare, not training exercises. History shows us that what people train for is rarely what actually happens. The last time the US was capturing islands, its enemies had bolt-action rifles. A lot has changed since then
> I meant actual warfare, not training exercises
Same question. Literally what country has ANY meaningful amphibious experience in the last bunch of decades other than the “coalition of the willing” countries, primarily the US?
Like a lot of my childhood friends were kids of SEALS and some of them became marines and SEALS and everything else. I grew up getting drunk with frog people telling me shit they shouldn’t. Like fucking Afghanistan had a ton of amphibious operations and it’s a goddamn mountainous desert.
And again the broader point I was probably trying to drunkenly make is that WE DONT KNOW WHAT WE DONT KNOW and when it comes to spooky SEAL shit they are doing operations fucking constantly and if they’re successful nobody ever hears about it. That’s why they get all weird whenever they’re allowed to talk about something.
Anyway seriously who is a contemporary army that would have more practical or training experience than the US at this kind of shit?
yean nta, but while sure us hasn't had to do a ww2 style sustained campaign in a long time neither has anyone else and at least we've trained hard. tho chinks have reported been training for invading taiwan too so in that one specific place might be a challenge?
>I grew up getting drunk with frog people telling me shit they shouldn’t
It's always the fucking SEALs that can't keep their fucking mouths shut
yea well SF guys prefer human trafficking and kiddie rape to book and movie deals...
go back to r*ddit you blowhard.
>The last time the US was capturing islands, its enemies had bolt-action rifles. A lot has changed since then
The last opposed American amphibious landing was actually conducted by the 82nd Airborne Division in 1989.
>literally ONE landing craft
That’s one more than everyone else
Muhrines used amphibious assault vehicles to cross the fuckin Euphrates during battle of Nasiriyah
What's your day job, son?
Fucking primal, this sort of lizard brain rage is what drives animalistic fear into the heart of the enemy
>use a boat
>no mags fitted
this is a picture of training for the actual landing
They all look like they're having fun.
>History shows us that what people train for is rarely what actually happens.
Who's history? Is history in the room with you right now?
There are two types of landings. contested and uncontested. We and all other Navies with Marines train the same way. Suppress the defenders. Protect the landing craft. Establish the beach head. Push the fight.
>The last time the US was capturing islands, its enemies had bolt-action rifles. A lot has changed since then
Operation Urgent Fury? HUH?
I grew up next to Pendleton on the ocean. A lot has changed since bolt rifles. For example, in addition to having access to old timey technology we have hovercrafts that can deploy armor right up your ass. Any tech you can think of to prevent that hovercraft from cramming itself snuggly into your cloaca and reverse-egg-laying an APC into your gullet has already been built by the US armed forces three decades ago.
A lot has changed.
>Training is le bad
Thanks Tim from Michigan oblast.
what up VB bro
Need a pic of the wojack trying to sleep at 10am with training soldiers outside the window.
Other than the US, who has done an opposed beach landing since WW2? Who has experience with amphibious operations?
Well shit if we're including cakewalks might as well include Grenada, and the Marines during Gulf War 1
I mean it wasn't Saipan but I wouldn't call it a cakewalk either. At the very least they lost the ship carrying most of their helos and that hurt them pretty bad.
I am so sick of this. You beat up a banana republic. A shithole. It wasn't impressive. What the fuck happened where the once mighty Brit empire needs to remind everyone of that time they did something so unimpressive as if it is the linchpin of their entire martial pride? Stop bringing it up no one is impressed.
Because every other country has been doing amphibious warfare extensively since WWII
The "obsolete" lessons of WWII are that amphibious operations suck and you only do them when absolutely necessary, AKA you can't bomb the shit out of them with missiles and jets
I would say it probably had the opposite effect
what I mean by this is that the military's adherence to tactics designed to fight peer warfare absolutely had a negative effect on its ability to fight an insurgency. While there have been changes to better fight the various insurgencies I don't think they had as much of an impact as the military's main focus has still been fighting potential near peer or peer adversaries
Eh. It's obvious we've let a bunch of stuff go important to peer war. A bunch of retarded Navy ship designs like LCS pissed away lots of dosh on useless crap. We've let basics like sheer raw ammo/shell production industrial capability go too, there's no more surge capacity and scaling now takes painful long periods of fresh building. Same will lots of basics like javelins or whatever. For insurgency End Of History conflicts it was fine but for a peer war you need actual mass production numbers too not just tech.
It's nothing like Europe's degradation, a bunch of western EU countries armies in particularly have just been brutally hollowed out and are essentially useless right now. But it's a real problem that Ukraine has revealed.
With recruitment there's a mild risk for the US but we have a remedy (except when the service is seen as woke + job availability is at an all time high + peacetime + vaccine mandate for people who did not want to take it). It can really strike you how fucked Western European downsizing was. To try and keep it tl;dr my dutch buddy was sad he couldn't enlist like his dad did (and got high in promotions and shit). I tried to make him understand fundamentally the world and opportunities his dad had did not exist for him. The Dutch literally have an army ~35% as big as in 1985. I'd wager it's a similar brutal reduction across the board. The fucked up thing is now is the perfect time for conscription because Europeans don't have colonies, they don't engage in dick-measuring wars, conscription is literally just "In case the Russian apes want to try and start WW3". It's not like in the US where conscription would make DC bust a nut at the prospect of so much more meat to throw into overseas adventurism.
You misunderstand anon, the navy is my only concern but that concern is a big one. When I read a great trilogy on the Pacific War I kept getting a spooky premonition that as in WW2 the IJN were fighting the last war (Battleships) and the US was the new war (Carriers) and I am worried against the Chinese the US will fight the last war (carriers) and China will fight the new war (Anti-Ship-Missiles).
>I am worried against the Chinese the US will fight the last war (carriers) and China will fight the new war (Anti-Ship-Missiles).
You're concern trolling or extremely ignorant yet interested in the topic of naval war.
The Guided Missile Destroyer/Cruiser was product of the 1960s. We named the Burke after the guy who pushed hard for guided missiles on Navy ships. Soviet Naval doctrine was based around Anti shipping missiles(often nuclear) being chucked at the USN.
Carriers are literally protected 24/7 365 by network of mobile SAM and Cruise missile batteries with missiles designed to blow anything they dont like up
How confident are you really that you'll even see the missile on the spy-1 before it's too late?
Extremely. Even if the launch is a surprise attack, there will be satellite launch warning for anything that can range past 300 kilometers.
>US will fight the last war (carriers) and China will fight the new war (Anti-Ship-Missiles).
Do you also think China has better drone capabilities than the US? You are sprouting propaganda.
>US will fight the last war (carriers)
>China will fight the new war (Anti-Ship-Missiles)
Meanwhile in reality..
>China is producing carriers.
>US is developing the missile capabilities China pretends to have.
Maybe I'm an uneducated spazz that doesn't know what's happening and is fear mongering, but just looking at US naval procurement and general attitude our strategy is "we're the best navy in the world, we'll win!". I just see us sitting there with our thumbs in our asses rolling our eyes about the "scared Chinese who don't have the stomach for war and will surrender after our first decisive engagement" while our adversaries ship building capabilities (at least by tonnage) massively outstrips ours. What was that probably fake quote from Rommel about the Americans only being able to make razorblades? I feel like we're sleep walking into that, but it's Admiral Paparo saying it about China.
>It's not like in the US where conscription would make DC bust a nut at the prospect of so much more meat to throw into overseas adventurism.
Overseas military adventurism is why they moved to a fully professional military, though. It's a lot harder with conscripts.
anti-ship missiles are the last war. Anti-missile missiles are the new war.
>retarded Navy ship designs like LCS
Don't make me get the Independencefag up in here.
I thought he was memeing but I looked into to it and he's not wrong about the Freedom-class being the real issue but every one just refers to the entire LCS program.
Independence still has basic issues of its own, primarily revolving around the asinine USN requirements that crippled the design from the outset. Chiefly, the "50kt+ sprint speed but has to be large enough to self-deploy across the Pacific" requirement, along with "we don't need VLS, the helo will carry all the real weapons" and "we only need a 40-man crew" and "the modules will fix everything". She also had early issues with a USN-caused fiasco (the manufacturer warned them they were cutting too many corners) involving galvanic corrosion. And, of course, the promised mission modules have underperformed or outright failed to enter service.
This, the latest Sandbox war has had the US streamline logistics even more so, its to a point you can get shit from a depot in Arizona to bumfuckistan in 2 days with the right brass requesting it.
>traditional war against other nations
Such as? To answer your question, no. We've been making practice war for the past 20 years, and peer warfare is the point of all the F35s and B21s. Nobody is even remotely competitive.
If we're talking about large armies and large mobility movements sure, but at this point in time, those tactics aren't viable.
Use drones and comms tracking to locate leaders call it in, drop a cruise missile from several hundred miles away after establishing air superiority and locking down air space around the country. Send in airborne teams to take out and hold air strips use them for your own bombers.
Send in strike teams to counter units holed in buildings, etc. It will look like a slightly more advanced version of the gulf wars.
Yes, absolutely. That’s why LSCO is the new hotness.
The next five to ten years or so will be pretty important in reshaping how the US operates. Large scale changes like unit reorganization is already in the works, but I think it’ll take a few more years until COIN-think is effectively driven out of everyone’s heads at a tactical level.
America would still absolutely wipe the floor with any other country on Earth.
What do you think buddy?
losers before 2001 and obese osers after 2001
don't quote me on this but I heard this dude saw got some fucked up combat related PTSD and overeating became his way of dealing with it
Could even be being partially caused by antidepressants or whatever. He does look like he like exploded and is retaining water
It was a result of prescribed steroids for a medical procedure he had while he was in.
He got wounded and was basically confined to a wheelchair for several months and as you well know if you goes from eating+burning several thousand calories a day to being sedentary overnight your body is gonna balloon because your metabolism doesnt have time to readjust.
His unit was being redeployed and though he was still recovering somewhat he wanted to go with them which is where/when this infamous picture was taken.
Fwiw he lost all that weight within the following year.
tardwrangling hadjis > sitting stateside twiddling your thumbs
yeah your battle-hardened boys might still shit the bed during their first real shelling, but how is it better if they hadn't deployed at all?
and the same goes for every other position
have your logistical capabilities degraded because you shipped 12 wendy's wholesale to Iraq?
are your fighter pilots worse off for trucking JDAMs against goatfuckers instead of putting more sim hours waltzing with virtual su-34s?
did the muhreens forget how to swim after spending 20 years pounding sand instead of each other?
GWOT somehow being a great catastrophe is yet another commie PSYOP.
Yes, GWOT was yet another conduit for MIC grifting, all done in the name of hegemony and on behalf of Israel. But war is a racket and I wouldn't have it any other way.
As opposed to what, an army that's been regularly fighting against a nation state for the last decade?
Seems like OP forget Lybia and Iraq. Not to mention any Insurgency is better than doing nothing. I would even say that 20 years in Afghanistan was a great experience for the military logistics and intelligence, which make the US military way more adaptable than anyone else who spend in the last 30 years invading smaller neighbor states with massive tank force and loosing half of them. In short, this muh US only fought against Goatfucker is the most retarded take I seen in the entire war. Its dangerous for Russia and China to think this is somehow true, oh boy.
Afghanistan, after victory declared and forces were drawn down to just a few thousand skeleton crew, cost relatively nothing to run. We were just running an airbase, doing some security and supporting the Afghans. It was such a small operation which had out-sized foreign policy wins. Those few thousand troops kept the Afghans in the fight by just handling transport, supply and medivac. Just knowing the US was there to take care of things was enough to keep them fighting for their own security. It was so positive that even the MSM turned against Biden trying to force him to keep the troops there.
But, our alies were hopelessly low-IQ crooks. Average Afghans were African-tier, simply too stupid to be trained. Politically we had to pretend that they’re white Americans. We lost confidence in them and state department wanted a cheap win which they sold to Trump and Biden later picked up.
We literally had to pay afghan warlords to leave us alone
Yes, but we were already so absurdly far ahead that we dropped from first place to first place.
Having been a submariner, I was disappointed at the readiness of our fleet. Too much emphasis (in my opinion) was given to the reactor and not enough to war fighting the ship. That said, my perspective was limited and we still kicked ass in exercises.
>Has America's decades-long focus on anti-insurgency warfare
and losing each time
>their ability to fight a traditional war against other nations
in which they lost and won only if the opponent was vastly inferior or exhausted or in any way not really a challenge
USA is dog vomit, it shall be cleaned up thoroughly
I think that in terms of land warfare centric fight against a near peer, the US military probably underestimated the vast quantities of ammo, missiles and arty shells one might need if they could not rely on the air force to maintain air dominance. On the plus side, only two or three real scenarios exist where that might happen, with one being a land war with russia no longer being realistic
It’s nice because america spent the last 20 years getting fucked by insurgency asymmetrical attrition warfare and now they get to apply everything they learned to fucking over Russia.
No, the US military's main focus is large scale armed conflict and it is very good at it.
It absolutely has, at least the Poles and the Ukies have been sober on the issue since 2014. Cassandras of modern times.
There has been no such focus. Although, sure, there has been work on tuning spec ops types it seems. Over the last 20 years the Army has always been the Army, working on getting faster-deploying, heavier-hitting BCTs. Procurement for everyone is about bigger and better, not wresting non-state actors. Yes, the Navy shut down most of its yards. Yes, the F-22 was dropped early. But the 6th gen project is ahead of everyone else by a huge level. The big dog Virginia Block 5s are coming soon. The Ford is out on friend cruise. New light tank was just chosen. World’s strongest anti-armor service rifle was just chosen. Super arty is on the way. Rapid Dragon. JSSM-ER. 3 different hypersonic projects on-track. On and on and on. Capabilities coming out of the services’ ears. The transformation of the Marines into a compact, quick-moving littoral force….the jury is out, but the reason for it is to handle peer threats in Asia, not terrorists.
If trade between China and the West ceases, the West will have some years of discomfort and expense, but China will collapse immediately and not recover.
They need to sell to us far more than we need to buy from them.
Yes. CKEM and several other weapons for fighting near peer opponents were cancelled when the GWOT started because they wouldn't be of any use in the sandbox. The 20 year obsession with civilizing death-cult goat-fuckers was a mistake.
I don't think any military superpower is ready for wars against one another.
The large issue with anti-insurgency was the nature of the enemy;
They travelled in small groups, utilized local population for movement and cover, lots of ambushes and hit & runs.
You start moving around in armor columns, flying planes and helos, and sailing naval ships, ALL the toys the US didn’t really get to use in iraq/afghanistan comes into play.
Besides, what other hostile near peer nation has seen combat of any sizable sort for the last 20 years straight?
Not only has it, but we also never got good at COIN to begin with.
>degraded their ability to fight a traditional war
No country on earth could hope to win against the US in a conventional war.
>inb4 the US reorients to conventional near peer warfare in the pacific against China
>the next big war is actually peacekeeping anti-insurgency in Russia trying to keep nooks out of the hands of warlords in the shadow of the failed state of the Russian federation
>This one battle in a war in the 50s is proof that the modern US military would function like Russia
cope fr fr
No, conventional war is the strength of the US military, which is why it is the global hegemon.
The Taliban are still trying to build a successful nation, but George Washington already built a nation and a military for us. You can lose to guerillas but still dominate the planet.
Given how we got our asses beat by the Taliban
130k veteran suicides are apart of our combat casualties in the eyes of the taliban
I think the better question is, "Does it matter though?" since any conflict with a peer nation means nuclear weapons, and there is only one scenario I can foresee where the deciding factor is not nukes, that being a potential Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
American lost against the Taliban. It's over
And now the Taliban are losing against capitalism and wageslavery
>Take your burger king and Pfizer and gtfo
>"So we punished them by taking our burger kind and Pfizer"
Take your L, burger.
Defeated by victory once more
> tfw these men are now office wagies, becoming civilized in a way that 20 years of killing their relatives never could
Unironically fucking hilarious, I can't wait for my grandkids to eat McDonalds on vacation in Afghanistan
America always wins brother….sooner or later.
Didn't I just see a commercial of these guys begging for food? It's great even when we lose we win because we rule the world. In retrospect we should have either said fuck empathy and exterminated them or incorporated the tribes. Our good nature really is annoying sometimes. But hey it was fun.
They said basically they're going back to """near-peer""" warfare years ago. America's been doing the cats paws instigating forever war thing since the mid 2010's.
They realized big toys and fat mutts die to insurgency, so they want to make insurgency for their enemies.
I think, ironically, the taliban miss the conflict more than we do
Anyways we got bored and left, not really an L my turd word fren. Post hands, post guns, do something other than boring canned lines we’ve heard a dozen times
I mean, that was just going to be their life + fag parades if the Americans won.
Not really. If anything it'd be a welcome reprieve. America went from fighting traditional wars to fighting almost no wars, then back to fighting traditional wars. It's about the only thing they're good at. God knows they're utter shit at antiinsurgency warfare, they lost terribly in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
America's tech/training/tactics work well in traditional theaters but they're useless against suicidal zealots whose cause grows stronger every time one of their members is killed.
I will give you Vietnam and Afghanistan, but not Iraq. Iraq is still a friendly (American puppet) government, and the nation building exercise was at least a very minor success.
I wouldn’t say terribly. Russia has probably lost more soldiers in 2 bad days than the US lost in Afghanistan in 20 years.
Yes and also no.
Cold war drawdowns on advanced peer to peer programs definitely slowed things down.
R&D time going into COIN related research has definitely made the USA less prepared than it *could* be, but I think you'd be very hard pressed to make the argument that some combat experience is worse than no combat experience.
Ultimately, even if all of the combat experience was worthless, the United States still exercised its logistical apparatus on an immense scale, which is arguably a more important skill to keep sharp given that any war it can expect to fight will be overseas.
>Has America's decades-long focus on anti-insurgency warfare degraded their ability to fight a traditional war against other nations?
Afghanistan is such a beautiful country
I'm gonna say yes and no.
Yes in the sense that possibly every servicemember picked up habits or was exposed to SOPs and doctrines that work against insurgencies, but don't work against enemies that have night-fighting capabilities or AA systems.
No in the sense that the US probably learned a lot about logistics in austere environments and operating equipment in hot and high environments.
Is the US willing to learn from those lessons, or will we have basically a "GWOT reformer" clique that will be like "why are we buying artillery? Just call in an airstrike" "look at those fools, turning SPAAGs onto infantry and buildings, a real army calls in a bombing run!"
But the real question is - does the US have the strategic resouces to fight a real war - CNC machines, steel mills, titanium deposits and so forth. And how much of that has to be delivered to the US from abroad? And would the countries of origin even support the US? Many of the US's major allies have more in-depth trade relations with China. And none of those allies have underwritten any NATO-esque commitment to come to the US's aid if shit goes hot with China.
You will never be a real superpower Chang, we gave you your wealth and now we are taking it back from you.
I hope you are successfull, I'm just stating facts. No NATO ally is bound by any agreement to aid or render material support to the US. Especially the european allies have been kowtowing to chinese interests for the past decade or more, and they have lucrative infrastructure and export deals with china. And thats not even going into what they've already bought off of US allies:
For example Germany has sold it's world class robotics company kuka to china. Where are those robots used?
See all those orange robot arms on the line? Kuka robots. In order to keep building F-35s the US is now reliant on Chinese robotics.
Can this problem be solved? Sure. But not without willingness to do so. Waving all concerns aside doesn't do you any good.
> But the real question is - does the US have the strategic resouces to fight a real war - CNC machines, steel mills, titanium deposits and so forth.
It might have been hadn't Russia been retarded enough to do a full scale invasion and give us a nice preview into what modern large-scale war looks like
>Fully invaded a country on the other side of the planet in a few weeks suffering like 140 casualties and inflicting like 45,000
The problem is we wouldn’t fight a total war against a national for longer than like a month or 2 before it’s no longer a nation.
No. The US has had a policy of "overmatch" for a long time. Basically the US effectively aims to be THAT MUCH better than any "near peers" that even if the US is not as good as they think they are and the opposition is better than they were estimated to be, there is still a margin of "overmatch" where the US is still JUST that much better.
>have policy for overmatch
>be actually overmatched in terms of access to raw resources, manpower and manufacturing capacity.
Yeah but we are allowing millions of cannon fodder into our country via the southern border.
Want to fast track becoming an official United States Citizen? Or maybe we should send you back home!
getting to shoot at commies AND getting a US passport?
You're literally gonna drown in recruits.
Yes, but not in the way you think. Americans are the equivalent of rich kids crying themselves to sleep when they have to wash their own dishes and make their bed. The years of overwhelming force has spoilt them, making them completely unequipped for any conflict where they don't hold all the cards all of the time. The red flags can be seen in the Ukrainian foreign legion, which Americans deserted en masse once 24/7 air support wasn't available or when they had to get shot at once. All this tech and funding is great, but the average grunt breaks when the going gets tough
> which Americans deserted en masse
> deserted en masse
Lol. Concern troll can’t help themselves. There was a “desertion en masse” of like a dozen navy cooks and glory seekers across the entire foreign legion. Plus the overwhelming majority of the Americans have better opsec and are doing spooky and operations shit.
>1000 foreign legionnaires
>250 lasted a month
>american thinks the different is 12
>you’re a garden gnome shill
This is some keyboard warrior, never worked with other militaries, grade-a bullshit. shut the fuck up.
Yes, but USA still spanks harder than everyone else. With COIN dead, USA will spank even harder.
We don't even have enough munitions for Russia, let alone Chinese troops. Thank god we have an ocean between us.
It must be liberating to just be able to say the dumbest shit without like shame or whatever
Yes, obviously. We’ve significantly delayed recapitalization in a number of key areas in order to fund wars. As an example, look at electronic warfare: Our AEW&C aircraft are obsolete and worse than ones we’ve exported for more than a decade, or SIGINT platforms are literally physically fifty years old, the Airborne has no escort jammers, only the navy, that jammer has been obsolete for decades, and instead of getting new stand off jammers we rehosted the existing ones into business jets. Work is being done to redress this now, but we’re pretty obviously not where we would have been.
My question is: Has the rest of the world’s focus on either doing nothing and hanging out under the US umbrella or subversively funding anti-US insurgencies have degraded their ability to fight a traditional war against other nations.
US is the only country in this century with practical experience successfully invading another other nations.
You definitely don't gain the ability to fight for defensive purposes when you attrition it away in foreign lands. Every allah ackbar in white countries is because of their stunts in the middle east.
Doctrine is already turning away from COIN.
This would’ve been a good point 5-6 years ago.
The Army has been talking near peer and LSCO seriously and tailoring warfighters, EDREs, and CTC rotations to them since like 2016.
When I joined in 2014 there was wayyyyy too much focus on KLEs, talking to interpreters and villagers, COIN ops, etc…
The Army slowly shifted away from that stuff like 2015-2017, and now it’s almost basically all “how do we set ourselves up well in terms of maintenance and disposition to fight large scale combat?” on everyone’s minds.
Your question is fine/good, but it would’ve been more relevant a few years ago.
Only if the US isn't quick about it.
Every single occupation-type war has caused irreparable damage to the US economy. The Vietnam War along with the Great Society forced the US to un-peg the dollar from gold and it's been going downhill ever since.
no, if it did then the US general population would give them cause to adapt to it.
>looting all the forts and naval bases when?
Atleast america has been doing something. What has everyone else been doing?
Whatever you need to tell yourself, wumao. Those fat fucks are going to curbstomp your bug people like the garbage they are.
Yes and no. It has created a hard fixation on spec ops which are gerbils in a blender tier light infantry in a modern peer vs peer conflict, but it has also produced precision guided weapons and bombproof IFVs that have improved warfighting capabilities for peer vs peer drastically.