https://www.google.com/amp/s/theaviationist.com/2022/08/23/the-new-aw249-attack-helicopter-flies-for-the-first-time/amp/
The AW249 Recently made its maiden flight, Poland already has an agreement with Leonardo, and Germany may decide to buy It to replace the controversial Eurocopter Tiger.
It is also possible that German interest comes at a price, Italy needs to renew its heavy component (MBT and AIFV).
Surely the AW249 seems to be a solid machine on paper, maybe It Is the last of its kind before Hybrid vehicles replace the Attack helicopter
Polish Gov is more intrested in AH64 or ah1z bc they dont get along with leonardo
>Polish Gov is more intrested in AH64 or ah1z bc they dont get along with leonardo
Why the frick don't we get along with Leonardo? Are asiatics the only people PiS haven't started drama with in the last decade?
What the frick
I don't know about German/Poland issues but South Korea has shown to be willing and able to keep up with demand. Looking at the K2 procurement by Poland, 180 tanks starting in 2022 and ending in 2026, with Poland locally producing. I do not believe Germany is able/willing to match those numbers or put factories in Poland so they can make more.
German defense companies build factories in Orban's Hungary, they'd do it in Poland too. Poland doesn't want it.
Stop with the fricking obsession with Germany for one thread, just asongle fricking thread. Can you do that? Cań you not embarrass us every single fricking time by acting like a seething moron?
You didn't just not answer my question and bring up Germany out of nowhere, you also sound so much like a fricking bot with that pre-planned answer that I'm genuinely starting to suspect most of the new butthurt idiots here are Russian false flag bots.
Leonardo is fricking Italian with the government opening like a third of it, FRICK
Seethe kraut
Nice try, vatnig
>Cań you not embarrass us
It does look like a flying potatoe, sorry not even him.
I think the point anon was making was that the company is Italian and the other guy had no reason to start to shit up yet another thread with off-topic seething about countries irrelevant to the question of
>why doesn't Poland like Leonardo
Also the wish not to be associated with such people I guess.
Ok, but potatoe. I thought Italia made sexy choppers?
I like it.
do it again bomber harris.
This anon knows that Leonardo is named after Leonhardt von Wien, a German scientist of the renaissance.
>This anon knows that Leonardo is named after Leonhardt von Wien,
*Löwhardt
The Grimm brothers later used some of his sketches to build the first working aircraft in Munich.
The Italians are notorious for delivering broken products, among them helicopters. Not long ago our navy bought Italian NH90 helicopters only to find out the maritime version couldn't handle salt water. I believe that's fixxed by now but still, its always a surprise whether you get a finished product without major flaws when buying in Italy. We had the same with some new trains we bought from Italy, shit kept flying off while at max speed.
the frick you're about, nh90 is bsicslly an eurorocopter like the tiger.
italy is the largest partner only if ignoring the trick of counting airbus france and airbus germany separately.
I know there were massive delays with upgrades and repairs (as in 5 years long)
Back during the Caracal drama one of the reasons some people were glad the airbus offer was chosen was the offset that included an plant with a polish majority stake so they wouldn't have to deal with Augusta Westlands frickery anymore
*Agusta Westland's
Dude they just bought 32 AW149.
But they prefer american helis bc they were used in combat
It is a matter of politics, not product. Leonardo bought PZL. Meaning this machine will ensure work to polish workers. The big advantage of the Apache Is that It Is ready NOW. These things were expect to enter in service in 2025 and this before Covid fricked up the world
So what's going on between Italy and Poland that they got issues with Leonardo?
There are no issues, they literally just bought 32 AW149's that will be produced in Poland.
the idea is that its supposed to build up german military production capability, not to be exported en masse.
>Hybrid vehicles replace the Attack helicopter
Is there anything even being worked on right now that would suggest this is a near-term possibility?
Hind
Soviets/Russia has had hybrid helos since the 60's, rest of the world still playing catch up.
>Hind
So what western countries are currently developing or have plans to develop something comparable to the Hind?
We've had utility helicopters with guns since we literally invented that concept. It's nothing new and the hind sucks at both tbh. Multirole helicopters are absolutely a meme. What makes sense is helicopters that can do either/or but not both depending on their equipment.
Well the FLRAA program is an attack helicopter with room for 12-14 + 4 crew.
Booster prop is a cute!
AH-60L
Hybrid refers to the configuration, not the use. Next gen are going to be either compound helis, gyrodynes or convertiplanes
>Soviets/Russia has had hybrid helos since the 60's, rest of the world still playing catch up.
That's not really the same thing, it's under-gunned compared to the Hind and only fits a handful of people, most of whom are required to fly the thing and shoot the guns. Hind can fly, shoot guns, missiles, and STILL deploy a small squad when it lands.
>Is there anything even being worked on right now that would suggest this is a near-term possibility?
Yes, Pic related should take Flight this year.
The AW249 risks to become the next CR42. The CR42 was the best, and last, biplane ever produced. But it was a biplane in an era of monoplane. Outdated before entering service
Seem ambitious, though I guess we're ~8 years away from the first unit deployment even if everything goes exactly according to schedule.
Guess it's nice to see the US finally revisiting their helicopters seriously for the first time in a long while.
i love this helo so much, coolest thing america did in decades
ironically enough, LM and Leonardo are kind of cooperating on LM’s FVL entry
The Company can't afford to be left behind.
Because they figured out such configuration is moronic and never bothered. Russians realized this too, and hence invested in specialized attack helicopters like Mi-28 and Ka-52.
(Me)
Meant to reply to
S-67 Blackhawk
A prototype us army helicopter. Could carry a squad of troops.
>>Is there anything even being worked on right now that would suggest this is a near-term possibility?
Airbus has dabbled around with hybrid helicopters in recent years.
Hybrid helicopter means something that has additional thrust in addition to main rotor. Like turboprop or turbofan engine.
Why don't they buy AH-64? It works
if it's as good as the AH-64 and not much more expensive I'd be in favor of it. EU countries should look to EU first for weapons purchases, then NATO (usually US). AW101 seems like a better choice than NH90 too. In return Italy can buy KF41 and KF51 to replace Dardo and Ariete.
It should be more than the Apache. reduced signature, drone command capabilities and a maintanance that Is easier than the AW129(which from what I know is already very simple) A nice object.
attack helis are a waste of money
buy some mojave-type drone
>https://www.google.com/amp/s/
idiot
I hate pissoids so much its unreal
Seems like attack heli roll is being filled by drones.
The most controversial thing about the Tiger is how some countries fly them fine, while certain others can't stop complaining.
In the second group, the most noteworthy country is Germany, because it has problems with every helicopter they operate.
You gonna cry now?
Bundeswehr is a joke, the chopper is fine
i would say the most noteworthy countries in the second group are australia and norway, because they abandoned the fricking thing and norway is suing to get their money back
Don't bother, he's unreasonably butthurt for reasons with no connection to any military gear.
About the only country that is doing "fine" is France and that's because the damn plant in France.
Also we don't know if the Tiger in French operation actually achieve its operational readiness or if the french simply suffer in silence
It's illegal for French servicemen to complain publicly about equipment.
Objectively incorrect, Poland operates the AW101 and has ordered AW149.
Britain is by far the most combat experienced in Europe, they love there AW's and haven't had any issues. From the Lynx to the Wildcat also the Merlin and the soon to be ordered AW149.
All of that being said, their is no contender to the Apache gunship, if you want an attack helicopter you buy Apache.
>they love there AW's and haven't had any issues. From the Lynx to the Wildcat also the Merlin and the soon to be ordered AW149.
Don't be daft. The main reason we buy half that stuff is to keep the Westland factory open
In general, the Navy likes them, the RAF doesn't currently fly anything made by them since the navy took the Merlins, but will probably bow to political pressure to have AW149 as the Puma replacement, and the Army wishes we had American helicopters - Since Iraq they've wanted something bigger than Lynx/Wildcat and don't have confidence in the RAF going for AW149s instead of Blackhawks as a Puma replacement.
They aren't bad helicopters certainly - no abortions like the NH90 or Tiger. But we are guilty of buying helicopters for political reasons in favour of actual better machines
Blackhawks are ancient the AW149 is a much superior aircraft, as is the Merlin vs Seahawk the Wildcat has its own role as did the Lynx (the most successfull Anti Ship helicopter) especially paired with the martlets.
Their is always infighting between branches of the military but to say they don't like the Lynx, Merlin, Wildcat is as you said...daft.
are you unironically too moronic to correctly use their and there?
>as is the Merlin vs Seahawk
Merlin's not better than Seahawk if you don't have ships specifically designed to accommodate a frick huge 3-engine helicopter.
In the RN we need two helicopters (Merlin and Wildcat) to perform the role that an MH-60R can do in a single airframe and does it better than Wildcat and nearly as well as Merlin
France had huge issues with the Tiger, similar to Germany. Infact the entire Airbus line was fricked in 2017, it would be interesting to see the readiness report 2022. They are carried out every 5 years.
Tiger
>The latest official update on readiness of French military helicopters show an average availability less than 50 percent, with the Tiger attack helicopter only ready for operations a quarter of the time.
NH90
>The 17 NH90s flown by the Army were available 41.4 percent, down from 47.6 percent, with an annual cost of €61.53 million and average age of three years.
Cougar
>The Cougar, with an average age of 26.3 years, was available 9.9 percent, down from 12.2 percent, with a bill of €40.27 million.
Navy NH90
>"The Navy has 17 helicopters, 10 of which are in maintenance," said parliamentarian Gwendal Rouillard, who was referring to the NH90 and pointed out that the 17th was at the time grounded due to a mechanical problem.
In summary, don't buy Airbus.
Good god the French are just as bad as the Germans.
This looks pretty shit not going to lie, AW make brilliant Naval helicopters and utility helicopters BUT their is no substitute for the Apache.
>their is no substitute
stop samegayging, your abhorrent spelling gives you away
no shit, why do you think the A129 (aka AW249’s progenitor) is called Mangusta (mongoose)?
Everyone but France has massive problems
Airbus has basically two spare parts lines. One for France and one for the rest.
Typical French behavior. Can't do business with those frickers. Seriously on all fronts not just military.
If your country is in francophone sphere you're fricked either way
how good is it at sitting unused and unmaintained, like all German military equipment?
Is the M197 really effective? Italy seems to have a hard on for it
will it attack the cold of winter?
France going to be pissed
ah yes, the flugengewhrenstugenheerenwehrenfreudianschlugentubenwaffellaffelstuggefahrenblahren. i understand that the broomstick is fully stabilized and controlled by the pilots helmet.
While I appreciate any money Germany gives us (the UK) for helicopters, anything but Apache is a shit attack helicopter.
weak bait, AW249 is an Italian product.
It's based on AW149 which has large sections made in the UK. There's 3000 people in Yeovil building sections of AW 101, 149 and 159 plus loads of supporting British companies like you find in every major aircraft project. You know the W in AW stands for Westland right? right?!
Based moron thinking facts are bait lmao.
And despite all this, I say you should get Apache.
Westland is owned by Leonardo and Leonardo is an Italian company, now frick off with your dogshit posts.
Laughs in Leonardo UK and their thousands of UK jobs. Airbus has it's HQ in the Netherlands and is listed on the Paris stock exchange, i guess that means there are no German airbus staff who benefit from work from airbus right? lol. Don't be upset because you made a mistake, your anonymous, just take it on the chin and move on, don't double down like the moron you probably are.
Buy Apache and you get a better helicopter AND you don't send money to the UK, surely it's win win for your fragile nationalism?
>makes up bullshit and claims subsidiaries are national companies
>talks about fragile nationalism
>makes up bullshit and claims subsidiaries are national companies
Quote where this happened (you can't)
do tell anon, is Apple a Chinese company?
Yeovil has been making helicopters at it's factory before Leonardo even existed lol Why are you so mad about sending economic benefit to the UK? ( i mean you should be mad that you're not getting Apache but still)
>AW149
>first flew in 2006 in Vergiate, Italy, six years after the Agusta-Westland merge and two years after Finmeccanica bought GNK’s shares (making it a de facto 100% Italian company)
>based on the Agusta AW139
the only British things on the AW149 are the tail rotor transmission and actuator and that’s it
the AW249 is as British as a mozzarella
There are 10 UK companies (in addition to Leonardo UK) producing parts for AW149/249. There is clear economic benefit to the UK for the two helicopters being sold - and yet Apache is still better.
means literally jackshit
pic related, an Italian car
Where did i say it was a British helicopter? lmao see
I simply thanked Germany for sending the UK money (as we clearly see an economic and sustained jobs benefit from AW orders) and our fragile germ shit the bed lol
here
now stfu and derail another thread
Yeah, thats not me saying it's a British helicopter , thats me factually stating the economic benefit the UK sees from work on it.
You tried and failed, just buy Apache bro.
it's me stating the fact that it's an Italian helicopter and you chimping in about muh British participation as if subsidiaries kept any of the profit and not the parent holding
>it's me stating the fact that it's an Italian helicopter
I've never contested this
Thanks for once again showing the Economic benefit to the UK from any German money.
I mean, if you’re this glad over Guido’s leftovers, be my guest
consider the following
>only the tail rotor transmission and actuator of the helicopter it’s based on are made in the UK
>the entire AW249 project is financed by the Italian ministry of Defence and Economical Development
I see no reason why it should have parts made in England, and even if they end up going down the AW149 route, it will be a minimal contribution
NOOOOO BRITANNIA RULES THE WAVES YOUR A SEETHING GERM NOOO BRITANNIA #1 BOXER IS BRITISH BY BIRTH
It's like saying apple is a chinese company because iphones are made in China
>anything but Apache is a shit attack helicopter.
This
apparently the US is about to buy from Leonardo soon as well
you're just an extremely annoying homosexual. Do you see Germans in every thread about British military pointing out that German firms provide the British military with its service rifle, armored personnel carrier, MBT gun, unmanned ground vehicles? No you don't, because we aren't butthurt like you. This is a thread about the AW249 helicopter which you derailed into a nationalist issue for zero reason, and then went on projecting calling others fragile nationalists.
>Do you see Germans in every thread about British military pointing out that German firms provide the British military with its service rifle, armored personnel carrier, MBT gun, unmanned ground vehicles?
Yes, literally every time, germans even make the threads most of the time.
you have schizophrenia, seeing things that aren't there. Anyway you're easily recognizable by your dogshit spelling, and you seethe about Germany in literally every thread on /k/ where it's mentioned. So much for fragile nationalism.
>Yes, literally every time, germans even make the threads most of the time.
>butthurt brit blames every post mocking brits on Germans
>all of /k/ has moved britain for like 13 years
I'm starting to understand why he's so obsessed, that's a lot of fuel for hatred.
Lel
>>all of /k/ has moved britain for like 13 years
I can't understand your bad English, what are you trying to say?
Mocked, niggy. Autocorrect does weird things sometimes.
The UK is to /k/ what Canada is to every board with flags.
I've been here for more than 14 years and I've hardly seen the UK get seriously mocked, outside of the dull L85 and challenger posting. Much like the USA people pay a lot of attention to us because we're more important than anyone else. The German military on the other hand, that's been a running joke the whole time i've been here, no redeeming qualities.
>I've been here for more than 14 years and I've hardly seen the UK get seriously mocked, outside of the dull L85 and challenger posting. Much like the USA people pay a lot of attention to us because we're more important than anyone else.
Okay that was genuinely funny.
>German military
>14 years
14 years ago the German military did better both in reality and in regards to its reputation.
>pretending to be an oldgay on /k/
Do you not feel at least slightly embarrassed?
Everything I said is correct, Dunno why you'd be intimidated by me being here since 2008, or make the mistake of thinking 2008 was the oldgays.
>I've hardly seen the UK get seriously mocked,
>oldgay btw teehee
Still not seeing your point? You could gather up the entirety of anti UK threads over the last (almost) 15 years and there would be fewer than just the F35 threads.
That's because the f35 matters while the UK does not
That's not true due to armatard's spamming alone.
People make fun of brits, you can discuss the "validity" of it, but they do, because brits are the,easiest target on /k/ because
A: You have no gun rights.
B: You're not allowed to defend yourself.
>A: You have no gun rights.
>B: You're not allowed to defend yourself.
Both wrong, you're outing yourself as a /misc/ idiot. I was here before /misc/ existed. Before /new/ was deleted and the parasites came here.
Pretty much all of the brit namegays, along with the decent namegays have left this shitty board for places we can keep talking without you autismos.
>britshit can't differentiate between a right and a license
Kinda sad.
>notts aren't mocked, we just ran away because everybody was too nice to us
Lmao
Don't be mad because you're not allowed in the new communities, you just have no value
>Don't be mad because you're not allowed in the new communities,
Is that how you call your paki ghettos now? "New communities?"
I'll stay in my white neighbourhood, thanks.
Mostly other forums, then teamspeak, now discord servers and reddit. All the fun, interesting and intelligent people left /k/ long ago, as evidenced by /k/ having nothing to do with NAFO and just reposting stuff from elsewhere. Sorry that you weren't seen as interesting enough to get brought along, you have fun there though looking at decade old ivan chesnikov and oppenheimer screenshots.
>14 years ago the German military did better both in reality and in regards to its reputation.
You clearly also weren't here for us laughing at Germany being incompetent and blowing up like 200 people by accident after dropping (american) bombs on a fuel tanker in an urban area lol. Even had to pay reparations lol
>laughing at Germany being incompetent and blowing up like 200 people by accident after dropping (american) bombs on a fuel tanker in an urban area
This
There are several valid reasons to make fun of the current state of German army/MIC but the obsessed anon chooses absolutely moronic ones probably because he jumps on every topic without caring if he knows what he's talking about or not
How the frick can you expect a pzf3 performing better than a javelin?
The UK never had anything in the league of that tanker blast, or those US harriers getting destroyed by the Taliban. The biggest UK related story in the last 15ish years turned out to be a total dud - the years of threads about our two carriers being mothballed/sold/cancelled and literally none of it even happened lol
>The UK never had anything in the league of that tanker blast
>blowing up shitskins is bad
Freedom, motherfricker.
What's that ajax thing that permanently crippled your own servicemen just by being in proximity though?
Average british poster.
>blowing up shitskins is bad
Your media had a meltdown that made "if you kill your enemies, they win" look like a tribute band. You then had to pay all the people you blew up. Imagine the incompetence of that seal that threw a grenade instead of a flash bang in a hostage rescue mission but apply it to a city block.
>Your media
Lmao
Nobody really cared and it had no meaningful consequences except to fill whole in reporting until a more interesting story came in and some shitskins getting paid off but worse
>muh media
Isn't even an argument. Look at the filth British media talk about and the disgusting propaganda the british broadcasting company spreads.
Honestly, I've seen brits embarrass themselves here a lot, but I never thought one of you would be moronic enough to bring the media talking about anything up as a point considering your own state media refuses to hire white males for most of its important positions nowadays.
>Nobody really cared and it had no meaningful consequences
>The recent bombing of two tanker trucks in an attack ordered by a German military colonel has led to major international criticism of the Bundeswehr. The incident has given a black eye to a country whose politicians have never been shy of telling others what's best in Afghanistan.
>Colonel Georg Klein is sitting silently in his office. He doesn't want to talk, at least not about what happened. This morning his press officer gave him a rundown of the headlines in Germany and around the world. It was an onslaught of negative press.
>He is now the most famous colonel in the world, the man who ordered the air strike and is responsible for the deaths of dozens of people. Klein appears worn out and tight-lipped.
>Why was he so certain that only members of the Taliban would be hit?
>"I don't want to comment on that."
>Why was it absolutely necessary for him to attack on that very night?
>"I really cannot say anything about that right now."
>https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-end-of-innocence-in-afghanistan-the-german-air-strike-has-changed-everything-a-648925.html
Thanks for proving my point.
Nobody cared and it got cycled out of the news pretty fast, most Germans wouldn't even k ow what you're talking about and I had to look it up myself when you first mentioned it.
Meanwhile all of this
Is the pure truth.
>most Germans wouldn't even k ow what you're talking about and I had to look it up myself when you first mentioned it.
Exactly, which is why I was pointing out you weren't here for the memes about how incompetent Germany was in Afghanistan. As I said, I was here for it.
>actually it was a big deal
>but only anobsessed British anon remembers it
>actually /k/ never really mocked brits
>but all british namegays left because/k/ wastoo nice to them
>actually the German media made a huge hubbub about it
>but Germans haven't even heard of it
Kek, I use the word rarely, but: COPE
>The UK never had anything in the league of that tanker blast, or those US harriers getting destroyed by the Taliban
And?
What does Britain have to do with what I wrote?
Dude I wrote about that moron shitting up almost every thread that's even tangentially related to Germany with his gay drama
>I've been here for more than 14 years and I've hardly seen the UK get seriously mocked,
>dull L85
Warranted, it's shit and an embarrassment.
>challenger
???
Did you mean
>chieftain
Also warranted, also an embarrassment. The best thing about it is the name.
>Ajax
Valid mockery.
>gun laws
Valid mockery.
>self defence laws
Valid mockery.
>1776
Valid mockery.
>a fricking ramp
Bit of a meme
>yearly story about british soldiers having extremely gay initiation rituals
Bit of a meme, weird that there's a new story every year though.
>British WWII performance
Valid mockery.
>british WWIItank design
Valid mockery.
>offtopic /misc/shit like rapegangs, extreme leftism, british state media being full 1984 etc
Valid, but off topic.
>british pride if "their" boxer
Valid mockery.
>warrior IFV
Kinda valid but has become a complete meme due to warriortard.
>lindybeige being the most competent brit in regards to fire-arms
Valid mockery.
You seem extremely new.
none of that new stuff is serious or regular, most of the stuff you claim is valid isn't even a thing but i cba educating you
>none of that new stuff is serious or regular, most of the stuff you claim is valid isn't even a thing but i cba educating you
It's neither new, nor invalid.
And mocking brits has been part of /k/ulture since the first brit ever stepped foot on these hallowed shores.
>none of that new stuff is serious or regular,
Kek
>most of the stuff you claim is valid isn't even a thing
Literally all of it is valid. The only joke I threw in was Mr. Spandau.
None of it is valid, sorry.
>the largest military power in Europe and the second most powerful navy in the world doesn't matter.
lel this is what a defeated nation sounds like. I'm older than your country ffs. Go buy AW249 and fund British jobs since you can't afford a decent helicopter like Apache.
>None of it is valid, sorry.
>Can't give reasons
>just screeches his denial
Lmao, Lindy, calm down and post guns.
>>the largest military power in Europe and the second most powerful navy in the world doesn't matter.
Kinda doesn't. The UK has done nothing meaningful since WWII except be America's b***h.
>inb4 muh Falklands
Lmao
Whats Germany done again? other than pay reperations
Why are you asking me about Germany?
And how is it a refutation of my post?
You okay there little guy?
Because you're German. You refuted your own post when you had to make a caveat lol.
>Because you're German.
Are there Germans in your room right now? Obsessed little weirdo.
>You refuted your own post when you had to make a caveat lol.
I was mocking you, anon.
I'm starting to understand why you think nobody has been making fun of the UK here.
There's three times as many Germans on /k/ as there are Brits, it's understandable that there's some small man syndrome and jealousy going on. As I said, more people pay attention to us than you, sorry if all your failed shitposting hasn't even registered, but it's very telling that you're so emotionally invested in me noticing you.
Is the "fact" that /k/ "never seriously mocked the UK" the reason why you people get so bent out of shape whenever a single post laughs at you?
Maybe you should learn to handle the banter, eh?
Why would I care about being outnumbered by morons? I've always been smarter than the majority of people in every room I go in. I'm only here to frick with people and brag about British superiority.
Not a single brit has been able to counter any of this.
Look at them scurry away like rats whenever it's mentioned.
>L85
A1 shit, A2 ok, A3 fine
>Challenger
What about it?
>Chieftain
Best Western tank of its time in terms of protection and firepower, engine was shit but this was hardly an issue given it was to be used in a defensive role.
>Ajax
Shite, should have bought CV90
>Gun laws
Shotguns are shall issue, Rifles need a reason, no semis over .22 no handguns. Hardly the worst in the world defo not the best.
>Self defence
Whats bad about them, do you even know what they are?
>1776
Frogs had to back the US to oust the Brits? Kind of embarresing on the US part.
>Ramp
Choice of 1 catobar or 2 ramps is a no brainer.
>Initiation rituals
British banter I guess? Pretty sure this isn't just a British thing though
>Tank design
Early tanks weren't the best centurion was arguably the best post war tank though.
>Groomers
Abit of a meme
>Boxer pride
Joint project, with some spergs thinking it was British all along? Can kind of understand it given we are buy a shit ton more than any other nation. Kind of like how everyone thinks the NLAW is British, but its infact a joint project with SAAB.
>Warrior IFV
Genuinely a good vehicle the non stabilised cannon is obviously a flaw as is the feeding system, but it's done its job fantastically over the years. If they just upgraded the fricking turret it would be good to go for another decade.
>Lindybeige
Had no clue who this was until I saw people mentioning him, he looks cringe af. Ian is British, he's competent?
Wierd list 5/10
>Best Western tank of its time
>what is operation Nasr
>Iran attacking a well dug in enemy, through muddy terrain, without doing recon prior to this? Then after abandoning stuck tanks they send in another wave?
How is that the tanks fault you simple c**t
>A1 shit, A2 ok, A3 fine
Fixed by Germans, still not good, an embarrassing story in all aspects.
>What about it?
Nothing, it's a fine tank and never got much critique, which is why it was weird that the supposed oldgay listed it as one of the two things people made fun of.
>Best Western tank of its time in terms of protection and firepower
If a tank doesn't work it doesn't matter how much armor you slap on it, the notorious unreliability is the whole reason why it was replaced by the challenger and the inherent design flaws are why there's no Chieftain II, which is why people mock it.
I mean, you can argue how bad it really was, but the conversation was about a brit pretending nobody mocked british equipment/brits on /k/.
>Ajax
>Shite, should have bought CV90
Obviously.
>Shotguns are shall issue, Rifles need a reason, no semis over .22 no handguns. Hardly the worst in the world defo not the best.
I think brits are often confused how bad their laws really are even compared to most of Europe. Only belgium seems comparable, maybe the netherlands too.
>Whats bad about them, do you even know what they are?
Can you use any weapon available, legal or illegal, to defend yourself and others if you personally deem it necessary in the situation?
>Kind of embarresing on the US part.
Bunch of farmers who just wanted representation defeated the british empire because it was too moronic to give people a vote, losing the entirety of north America in the process. Greatest political frick-up in history.
>ramp
It's just a meme
>Pretty sure this isn't just a British thing though
The british military only shines due to the homosexusl nature of the initiation rituals and the frequency with which they're in the news.
>Early tanks weren't the best centurion was arguably the best post war tank though
Post war isn't WWII and centurion was good for a while because after the war most nations took a step back and made a big leap instead of iterating on WWII design philosophies.
>fixed by germs, still not good
Ok, how many times have you used it You? You realise how irrelevant an infantry rifle on the scale of war right?
>is the whole reason why it was replaced by the challenger and the inherent design flaws are why there's no Chieftain II
Yeh, no your wrong.
>Gun laws worse than Europe
Semi autos being banned is literally all That's wrong, before that they were fine.
>Can you use any weapon
Yes, if its illegal you will be done for possession of an illegal weapon but not the defending yourself part. Which is interesting because why would you try to mock it if you didn't even know what was right lol, sheep mentality?
>Bunch of farmers
Nah they deserve more credit than that + French+Spain. It wasn't the entire British empire either it was approx 60k soldiers with an equal or greater number on the US side, hardly a crushing defeat is it?
>British mil shines
Nah, the mortar thing is abit fricked up but nothing else stands out from other countries. I guess UK Is in a bigger spotlight than most being more relevant.
>Centurion not big leap
Post war isn't WW2 but it was pretty close given it came out in 1945, your splitting hairs. It stayed relevant for 35 years it was itself a giant leap.
>Ok, how many times have you used it You? You realise how irrelevant an infantry rifle on the scale of war right?
Neither is an argument in regards to people not mocking it, they did. It's also bad.
>Yeh, no your wrong.
Then maybe all the people mocking it here and all the tank experts saying it kinda sucked are wrong, but either way, people mocked it.
>Semi autos being banned is literally all That's wrong, before that they were fine.
Gungrabber cuck mentality.
>Yes, if its illegal you will be done for possession of an illegal weapon but not the defending yourself part.
Then why do you get in legal trouble if you shoot a robber with your lawfully owned firearm in your home?
>It wasn't the entire British empire either it
>I only lost the most important part of the world because I didn't use my full strength
Okay vegeta.
>Nah, the mortar thing is abit fricked up
Black person they anally rape3their recruits with a massive piece of steel.
>Post war isn't WW2 but it was pretty close given it came out in 1945, your splitting hairs. It stayed relevant for 35 years it was itself a giant leap.
It's not splitting hairs, it didn't do any fighting, period.
And it wasn't a gigantic leap either, we only got that with the true postwar tanks.
>but they mocked it
They mocked the A1 for being unreliable, the A2 for having HK fix it and the A3 for its legacy? People mocking something that works is hardly an insult sounds more like banter or maybe trying to find a problem were their isn't one?
>but THEY mocked it and the Tank experts HERE did too!
You just gave a high and mighty speech to why their isn't a Cheiftain 2 and how they had to make the CR1 to replace it, I called you out on being wrong and you shifted the blame to THEM and annonymous Tank experts of 4chins? Don't you want to know why you were wrong instead of being so focused on people mocking somthing? You seem to just go along with what other people say instead of finding out for yourself which is kind of sad. I can tell you why you were wrong if you want or you could just go along with your other narrative?
>Gun grabber mentality
They were banned before I was born wtf do you even mean.
>shooting somone with a lawful gun
You don't, but I'm guessing somone told you that you do and now you parrot it around? Again, sad...
>Empire strength, lost most important part of the world
It had around 250k regulars, 50k in the US and it fought a US Army of similar size supported by two other world powers at the time and lost hardly a crushing defeat? It "lose" that part of the world it was just across the border for decades to come.
>Rape
Lol no
>Centurion
What is this big leap you speak of? The centurion was fighting wars up until the 80/90s it saw way more action that alot of post war tanks so it must have been deemed fit for purpose.
>They mocked the A1 for being unreliable, the A2 for having HK fix it and the A3 for its legacy?
Yes, also because it's still kinda shit compared to other service rifles.
Anon said nobody on /k/ ever seriously mocked the UKexcept some light banter over this rifle and the challenger, because anon is a delusional british newbie.
>>but THEY mocked it and the Tank experts HERE did too!
Tank experts in general.
Remember the guy called the chieftain who named himself after it? He likes the tank(obviously) and even he thinks it's shit.
Once again, valid target of ridicule.
>, I called you out on being wrong
Nothing I said was wrong. You just misunderstand the conversation.
>Don't you want to know why you were wrong instead of being so focused on people mocking somthing?
This is aboutanon'sclaim that Brits were never seriously mocked on /k/, I gave many examples that prove him wrong.
Whether the challenger really is as shit as it's reputation is frankly kinda irrelevant.
>They were banned before I was born wtf do you even mean.
You are fine with all the commie restrictions and thus enable them. Just the semi auto ban was a step too far for you.
That's cuckoldry.
>You don't, but I'm guessing somone told you that you do and now you parrot it around
So why don't you have a gun to defend yourself with, anon?
>hardly a crushing defeat? It "lose" that part of the world it was just across the border for decades to come.
You lost, you shouldn't have, but you did and lost the world with it because you were too moronic to give Americans votes and then too moronic win the fight.
>Rape
>Lol no
Ah yes, all British recruits willingly got their asses fricked.
How the frick is that better? Lmao
>What is this big leap you speak of? The centurion was fighting wars up until the 80/90s
Sten guns are still used today, you're not making a single argument by repeating that the centurion was used for a while.
Go back and reas what I wrote, then reply to it.
>L85
People on the Internet say moronic things, news at 11.
>Cheiftain
The engine wasn't very good which is what was said earlier but it was to be used from a defensive role hence the good armour and cannon. This was addressed in the first post no idea why you dragged it on for so long.
>I wasn't wrong
You were completely wrong.
>It's about another anon
No it's about you being wrong, don't shift the posts here. You said "was replaced by the challenger and the inherent design flaws are why there's no Chieftain II"
It will pain you to know the Challenger 1 is the Cheiftain 2 originally built for Iran but they went kaput so it was rebranded for use with the British Army when the MBT80 program went breasts up.
>The Challenger design by the former Military Vehicles and Engineering Establishment near Chobham in Surrey originated in an Iranian order for an improved version of the Chieftain line
Accept you were wrong.
>People mock the Cheiftain because their isn't Cheiftain 2
Based on what I have just told you above you can see how utterly ridiculous you sound. This is why you shouldn't just parrot shit from 4chins and take it as gospel like when you thought it wasn't allowed to defend yourself with a firearm in the UK.
>Fine with semi ban
When did I say that? You are becoming more ridiculous as you go on.
>so u don't have a gun
So you accept you didn't know you could defend yourself with a lawful weapon or illegal weapon and also accept you think /misc/tier memes are real.
>You lost to 2 world powers plus an equally manned army because you didn't give them the vote
Guess I will time travel back and give them the vote then, do you realise how moronic you sound?
>All British recruits
It was one guy fricking around literally with a ceremonial mortar while everyone stood around laughing.
>Centurion drivel
I asked you what was the big leap?. The sten wasn't issued to an entire armoured brigade fighting with different nations in many theatres in the 80s though?
>>L85
>People on the Internet say moronic things, news at 11.
Tbh you got kinda boring with the copes and that one was so ridiculous that I didn't feel like reading further.
The L85 is not good.
Cope posts
>I asked you what was the big leap?.
Your entire post is moronic and pathetic but the fact that you don't see a difference between WWII tanks and the postwar tank generation make you look so utterly fricking moronic it hurts.
>hurr durr but they kept using it
How is that in any way an argument?
Brits disgust me. Anon was right to ignore you.
Stop talking about guns, you'll never use any that weren't obsolete 80 years ago.
>Post war isn't WW2 but it was pretty close given it came out in 1945, your splitting hairs.
People make fun of british WWII tank performance because they all kinda sucked dick and had wonky ideas behind them which at best kinda worked.
No centurions performed in any WWII battle.
>Ok, how many times have you used it You?
>evolution killed off the dinosaurs? Were you there?
>You realise how irrelevant an infantry rifle on the scale of war right?
>okay it's shit but actually the primary firearm of your armed forces doesn't matter
Bro
>What about it?
Greek trials
moron
Cope
>Abit of a meme
Still bad, anon.
>Joint project, with some spergs thinking it was British all along?
Basically. Hence the mockery. Though I feel like it was mostly spurred on by that pic of the boxer with the union Jack paintjob.
IFV
>Genuinely a good vehicle the non stabilised cannon is obviously a flaw as is the feeding system, but it's done its job fantastically over the years. If they just upgraded the fricking turret it would be good to go for another decade.
As I said, there kinda are some valid points, but the warriorposting us mostly a meme due to warriortard.
>Had no clue who this was until I saw people mentioning him, he looks cringe af. Ian is British, he's competent?
Ian McCollum? He's american and openly mocked brits before.
British guntubers aren't really a thing,there's bloke on the range who just shoots bolt actions with autistic fervour, but nearly nobody knows or cares about him. Lindybeige is the biggest british channel that touches guns by far, though he mostly does medieval and ancient history, both of which he mostly gets wrong.
The problem with his gun videos is that he gets basically everything wrong, has a very strong pro-English propaganda stance abs just makes things up,which caused some of his videos to draw the attention of the entire guntuber "community" to call him a moron.
If you wanna know more, look up "lindybeige spandau." He thought that's the correct name of the MG34 and MG42 for some reason and made a longvidro explaining why they're both shit and the Bren is superior, then a lot of guntubers basically publicly called him a moron, including forgotten weapons guy, then he made ANOTHERvideo to double down on it.
I genuinely thought the first one was a parody until I saw the second. The guy's crazy, has a huge following of mostly brits who believe everything he says though.
>I've been here for more than 14 years and I've hardly seen the UK get seriously mocked,
>I've been here for more than 14 years and I've hardly seen the UK get seriously mocked
Oh wow
>I've been here for more than 14 years and I've hardly seen the UK get seriously mocked
>more than 14 years and I've hardly seen the UK get seriously mocked,
Uhhh
Once again, not serious because it's based on a lie
>I've been here for more than 14 years and I've hardly seen the UK get seriously mocked, outside of the dull L85 and challenger posting.
I love UK helicopters
see, this is an actually British helicopter, unlike the AW249
Once again, no one said it was British, I just stated that we see economic benefit from Germany ordering it, yet i still think they should get Apache. Then it's triggered some pathetic germ into inventing a straw man argument and making a fool of himself by pretending the UK isn't involved in Leonardo's helicopters.
and once again, I’m here to remind you that your assumption that the UK’s plant is somehow involved on the AW249 is based on thin air
AW249 is a modified AW149 anon, next you're going to claim UH-1 and AH-1 don't share parts?
a guy I know just showed me a vid of the test flight, looks extremely stable
>is a modified AW149
it uses the same rotor, main transmission (since it has no issues handling engines up to 2500HP, as seen on the AW189), APU and tail, but we’re basing these assumptions on visual evidence and heard through the grapevine
manufacturing shares is far from set in stone
Why would any profit orientated company duplicate an existing component production line?
because the components might be visually similar yet substantially different for one, and as I already said, because the programme is completely funded by the Italian ministries of Defence and Economical Development, the latter of which’s purpose is to exactly prevent national funds to end up in foreign companies
You don't change components for the sake of it. And despite AW149 being entirely funded by Italy and it's customers, there's still work happening in the UK. Those 3000 staff in the UK helicopter arm aren't just twiddling their thumbs.
of course they aren’t, they’re busy with the production of some parts for the AW101, AW149, AW189 and the likes
I’m not saying there’s 0% chances some parts of the AW249 won’t end up being manufactured in Yeovil, just that it’s a very bold assumption that you wienerily spread as gospel
The only assumption going on is you deciding that share components from the two aircraft wont be made where they currently are - you're making the assumption of change, i'm saying the status quo will remain.
eh ok whatever fits your narrative I guess
We have both kinds, Country and Western..
>seething about the Germans and claiming random defence products are actually British
Frick me in the ass and call me Sally, it's him!
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/54869051/#q54882656
>Italians making stuff for the Germans
Uh, I've got the feeling someone is about to be included in the MGCS program and maybe even get some new IFVs on the cheap.
Italy doesn't buy non Italian ground vehicles unless it's incredibly niche.
The Italian MoD explicitly stated being included in the MGCS would be their best option.
the Italian MoD wants to join MGCS and buy the Lynx but the domestic MiC is trying their best against it
the latest DPP (basically a document from the MoD going in detail about future military needs/expenses) was pretty clear about it
talk about comedic timing
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/28/army-sergeant-shot-dead-short-sighted-soldier-inquiry-finds/
As a bong I found that hilarious, don't see what your point is though?
Staggering the emotional trauma that a German purchase funding UK causes. Pesky brits being great at helicopters.
What's going on in this thread?
Brits being upset that they have 3 football teams but only ever won the world cup once somehow.
Imagine cheating to get 3 times the teams other nations get and still never winning lmao
holy shit you just reminded me the euro final
what a time to be alive
>Be Kraut
>Train with brooms
>Have 10/1000 armored vehicles available
>Have 10% available airforce
>Become the biggest laughing stock in the world regarding military maintainance
>Be occupied by Bongs since WW2
>Has to buy Civilian equipment because of dated shit gear
>Ukraine aid dropping in 2 more weeks!!! (Said months ago)
>Bullied by Poland
>Buy cope copter 6000 instead of Apaches like a real military
No wonder they are always upset...
Look at how much effort he puts into expressing his anger.
That's some other anon, dunno why you keep thinking there's only one brit on /k/
I don't think telling me that there's more than one terminally butthurt brit is good for you if you don't want to get mocked, anon.
There's more than one poster making fun of Brits here.
Hint: It's all of them.
I mean you just replied to two different people taking the piss out of Germany? So I guess you should take that on board before you post "it's only one Brit posting!"
Kind of repetitive you always use the same response and assume only one person shits on Germany, the sheer amount of frick ups and the Laughable state of that place generates a large amount of laughs and warrants people making fun of that cluster frick.
Germans cannot face criticism. They used to mock Poland for being cleaners...Now Germany has to train with brooms instead of guns
>They used to mock Poland for being cleaners...
That's only ever been a British meme, actually. Here they're known as car thieves since that was a genuine issue for a while after the borders opened.
>Now Germany has to train with brooms instead of guns
Fake news Brits have been running with for years now.
You see, the difference between people mocking brits and brits trying mock anybody is that other people don't need to lie to laugh at Britain.
>Fake news by Brits
Except it was the Norweigens, they also voiced serious concerns because Germany had to pretend 4x4s were Leopards and Marders.
>The German army has been painting broomsticks black and mounting them on armoured vehicles to resemble machine guns, it has emerged. Defence Ministry officials admitted employing the unusual props during military exercises in Norway with Nato's rapid Response Force in September.
....
>
The German defense ministry confirmed troops were deploying ‘other vehicles to practice mounting and dismounting’ because of the lack of Puma tanks. Instead, the soldiers were using cars because only 20 percent of the Bundeswehr’s Pumas are in working order, according to Bild.
But that's all Britain's fault right? Kek stfu you subhuman fricks
>Germans have no guns
>actually *moves the goalpost*
Lel, look at this and run, rat.
>Brits made up the brooms
>Posts proof it wasn't made up and it wasn't the Brits that started the bullying
>Shifts goal posts completely back to a non related post
Do you have learning difficulties?
>Brits made up the brooms
This is your "quote."
This is what you actually posted:
>Now Germany has to train with brooms instead of guns
This was the answer:
>Fake news Brits have been running with for years now.
>You see, the difference between people mocking brits and brits trying mock anybody is that other people don't need to lie to laugh at Britain.
Now that that's taken care of, refute this if you can (protip: you cant, which is why you're running from it)
>machineguns
Autocannon. They created a fake autocannon to make their command vee Boxer look like an IFV version from afar.
>according to Bild
Literally less credible than the Daily Mail.
Keep seething.
>Posts this
>dull L85
Warranted, it's shit and an embarrassment.
>challenger
???
Did you mean
>chieftain
Also warranted, also an embarrassment. The best thing about it is the name.
>Ajax
Valid mockery.
>gun laws
Valid mockery.
>self defence laws
Valid mockery.
>1776
Valid mockery.
>a fricking ramp
Bit of a meme
>yearly story about british soldiers having extremely gay initiation rituals
Bit of a meme, weird that there's a new story every year though.
>British WWII performance
Valid mockery.
>british WWIItank design
Valid mockery.
>offtopic /misc/shit like rapegangs, extreme leftism, british state media being full 1984 etc
Valid, but off topic.
>british pride if "their" boxer
Valid mockery.
>warrior IFV
Kinda valid but has become a complete meme due to warriortard.
>lindybeige being the most competent brit in regards to fire-arms
Valid mockery.
You seem extremely new.
>LoOk aT aLl YoUr eFfoRt!1!
Sad.
quite impressive how this autistic Brit managed to derail the entire thread again.
British posters are the worst people on this board
The Germany military is the worst in Europe and that's more humiliating. I can't wait for Germans to start freezing to death this winter because of their awful political choices.
Don't care i'm not german
Impressive that they made such an unmenacing looking attack helicopter.
All European attack helicopters look a bit shit tbh.
The Gazelle is cool.
Wouldn't really call it an attack helicopter any more than i'd call a Lynx with TOW's one but yeah it's nice.
almost as if it’s an unarmed prototype huh?
Looks even worse.
>that doesn’t look menacing
try harder
It looks goofy, like an Airtruk from a bad angle.
No it looks cheap and tacky. Get a real attack helicopter.
please refer to
Looks like a Chinese copy of an Apache.
Will the moronic Buneswank get a cannon this time or will it be a fake attack helicopter like the Tiger?
The A129 Mangusta has proven to be a great machine.
The same had served in Somalia, Balkans and Iraq were sent in Afghanistan in which the operated for, at least, 13,500 hours. Sometimes taking fire, Italy never lost a single one of its Attack helicopter despite age and being used a lot. In Afghanistan they outperformed the Tiger.
Video of an aw129 hit by7,62/12,5 despite the damage It kept doing its mission
no euros allowed
Irelevant if those rounds would have hit vital parts it would be game over. How many aw129 has seen combat vs apache? It's a piece of shit.
>Bolt action meme
Cmon man you didn't belive that did you?
This is the only answer, any other is wrong.
The 60 machines have took service in Somalia, Balkans, Iraq and Afghanistan. The same usual 60.
Are you 12 ?
BN has now retired atter 40 years of beng shot at.
The bestest at not being downed by sily bangy stuff.
except it takes hits better than the apache while being half the weight.
number of helicoter taken down by iraqui farmers with bolt action rifles:
a129: 0
ah64: some
>AW249
what's the problem with the Tiger ?
for those comparing the AW249 with the Apache: you’re a bunch of clueless morons
nice non argument, Apache is the only real choice for serious militaries. Everything else is decades behind.
cool
you’re still a clueless moron tho
>The Apache Is the super super machine
Video related, I was there.
>those old farts chiming in
KEK
it’s the same the world over
short vid of the AW249 prototype in its maiden flight
https://twitter.com/NichoConcu/status/1564232747492823042
>hurrr durrre muh Apache
why is /k/ so filled with mouth breathing morons who couldn’t tell a difference between a recon/light attack helicopter and a heavy attack one
Nice cope
what next, the M41 was a worse tank than the M103?
That means that the Apache can do everything the AW129/249 can, but the AW can do 75% of what the Apache can.
the AW129/249 is smaller, lighter, needs less fuel and logistics and maintenance
as I already said, there’s a reason why the A129 was called Mongoose - threat animal eats cobras, meaning it was a direct competitor to the AH-1
different tools for different uses, but then again I’m on PrepHole, where more big boom = more big good and nothing else matters
>the AW129/249 is smaller, lighter, needs less fuel and logistics and maintenance
less payload, less range, slower, less well protected, less well equipped with sensors, maintenance has to be done back at the factory and not in the fields, low rate of production means ongong timly maintenance will never happen.
>less payload
yes, because, as I said, it’s a light attack helicopter, not a gunship like the Apache or the Hind
>less range
false
>slower
yet nimbler
>less well protected
debatable
>less well equipped with sensors
MAWS, LWR, FLIR, TOPLITE, what else does it need?
>maintenance has to be done back at the factory and not in the fields
????
Mangustas are particularly renown for their ease of maintenance, even on the field
>low rate of production means ongong timly maintenance will never happen
the Italian army currently uses the D variant and the direct successor, the AW249, will be adopted soon so…
>a light cruiser can do everything the a destroyer can, but the destroyer can do 75% of what the light cruiser can.
Geee, i wonder why every WWII navy didn't switch to light cruiser only
Not him but all WWIInavies were set up in a completely moronic manner because nobody knew what he was doing since they didn't get the chance to try things out yet.
true, also the Washington naval treaty set limits everyone tried to skirt around in interesting ways
>another thread derailed by abhuman *ngloids
LMAO!
i for one cant wait for russia to sink that whole island
Does the UK have a plug? Because Russia sure won't be able to hit an island thousands of km away with anything other than a manned kamikaze plane lol
how much better are apaches compared to viper? since our gov is buying vipers+venoms instead of apache. i assume apaches are more expensive?
probably, but also Viper + Venom share a lot of the same parts, so buying both together makes sense, makes maintenance easier and cheaper.
From what I can see the AH-64 Apache is around $35M a pop in 2019 it's hard to find numbers on the AH-1Z due to the fact most of them were upgraded airframes, not brand new.
They are very similar now. Apache is tougher but Cobra is much better at fighting other helis since it has AIM-9.
You can put AIM9 on anything.
god that is fugly
It's Italian, not German.