Germany and France agree on details of MGCS

>Both sides have agreed on the distribution of all tasks for the project, "without any room for interpretation or misunderstandings, including from outside", said Pistorius. It was also clearly agreed that there would be a "50-50 industry split" between the two nations in terms of production, emphasized both Pistorius and Lecornu.

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    France will still throw a fit and leave with their side of patents and do a different design.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      C'est la vie.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >50-50 industry split
    Seems like germany just got tired of french bullshit and just gave in to every demand

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      maybe. After all Germany was meant to have the lead on MGCS because France got it on FCAS. Doesn't look like it now if it's 50/50. Anyway the most important thing is that the project is moving forward and a good system is developed.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Imagine if germany and spain demanded a 50:25:25 split on FCAS. France would be fuming

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          To be fair, France needs a carrier capable aircraft, which basically means France HAS to lead the program to assure it can be developed for take off/landings on CDG.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      what german weapon isn't shit or moronicly overdesigned?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous
      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Tactical bratwurst is pgood
        germans ARE divas, that much is true. both them and frogs are, really.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Literally everybody is using german guns. Now who uses french designed guns?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          by german guns you mean HK aping american designs

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I mean 120

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The second someone uses a meaningless word such as "overdesigned" or "overengineered", I instantly assume you are moronic?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Given that it was supposed to be like 50-50 over this and 6th generation fighter that is clearly French led program, the industrial split is now 75-25 in favor of French. As French intended from the day one and tries to do on every single joint program involving them. Purpose of European cooperation in defense procurement isn't to defend Europe, but subsidize French industry.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        so like every country in the world?

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I really like the germoids. They keep coping about "muh industries", yet we have better tanks, better planes, a better navy, better heavy equipment ... this list goes on.

    Oh, and it is quite strange every project with germany fails without fail and we have no problem working with our southern bros ( ie italy and spain ), yet everyone wants to work with them. The americans are very quick to forget the MBT 70 project.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      what german weapon isn't shit or moronicly overdesigned?

      Tactical bratwurst is pgood
      germans ARE divas, that much is true. both them and frogs are, really.

      by german guns you mean HK aping american designs

      Imagine being this upset about a foreign country.
      Kek

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >better navy
      wat

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not a frog, but. Compared to the French navy, German navy is pathetic, and their next class of oversized frigates is IMO obsolete before it's laid down
        >we are going to build a patrol boat with barely any offensive/defensive weapons that can stay operational for 2 years
        Sounds like a good plan... For a world circa 2016.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >yet everyone wants to work with them.
      Maybe do some self reflection and think about why that's the case.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Pistorius
    I keep seeing quotes of his that all sound pretty sensible for the most part. Did the germs finally get a somewhat competent secretary of defense?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      yes, he's doing a good job

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He is, but not for lack of people around him trying to shit the bed...

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, he's alright. He got the post when everyone was giving Germany shit for being pussies

  5. 3 weeks ago
    robofucker

    >that gun tank design
    wew lad, only 18 years late. better late than never I suppose.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Cheeky laser tank in the top right

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      AA tank*

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I knew the French would be fricking Black folk again.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >50 tons hull
    >unarmored laser optics/sensors
    ...

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      game balance

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Armour protects the crew, not the sensors.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Decide to cooperate with France on something
    >Press release really emphasizes how they've agreed on everything and looks like someone attacked a thesaurus for synonyms on agreement and unambiguity
    The memes write themselves.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >going for another FCS like design where you share a common hull

    I've got a bad feeling about this, bros.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Both sides have agreed on the distribution of all tasks for the project

    So what will it be? French 140mm or German 130mm? Or do we keep the 120?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the memorandum of understanding is meant to be signed in April and contracts with the industry until the end of this year, I guess then we'll know

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Might go for a universal turret, which can mount any type of gun.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I really hope they don't go for different caliber guns. I'd rather just let the frogs have their fricking 140mm.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If the frogs dictate every single requirement, then germany and spain should just leave that project.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >If the frogs dictate every single requirement, then germany and spain should just leave that project.
            >Spain
            Of all the morons ITT you are by far the most moronic.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Well sorry about that, but our gov has an intention to join the project and it will happen. Just like with the FCAS.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The initial rumors have been that the marked share will be along the lines of
      >turret for france
      >chassis/automotive for germany
      This is partly used to explain the recent pushes from RHM with their KF51 and similar developments, as a counter to what they feel to be a loss of marked share towards the franco-german development.
      At least thats the rumor i got at the latest FSS and AGNu meetings, so its probably only half-true at best

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >50-50 industry split
    So does the FCAS also have a "50-50 industry split"?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Probably no because France is literally the only country in that program with the experience and the technology required for it.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You forget that Germany is in that program.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Germany hasn’t developed or fully indigenously made planes since 1945
          >inb4 some assembly or license production like MTU Aero or Airbus Manching

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    "The first production unit is expected to roll off the assembly line in 2035."
    My prediction:
    - There will be a great big frickaround of changing specifications, changing partners, changing splits, and changing industry allocations, with lots of fancy mock-ups and cool concept art to jingle keys in front of stakeholders.
    - Grossly over-time and over-budget, it will become a moderately upgraded Leopard 2A7 with a moderately upgraded Leclerc turret.
    - The turret will be able to accept either a moderately upgraded Giat F1 or moderately upgraded Rh-120, with 'improvements in ammunition' making it 'unnecessary' to go beyond 120mm (as in the past failure of 140mm proposals).
    - The whole 'system of systems' thing will turn out to be bullshit, with no fancy laser tanks or BMP-T or MMEV variants. It'll just be a tank. 'Due to lower-cost platforms having improved cost-effectiveness', all the pie-in-the-sky bullshit will be offloaded onto Boxer variants - and possibly Puma variants.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    without shells useless

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      whats up with the bot-posts lately?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No shells sir. Gayrapeans have no shells.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Apparently both Rheinmetall and Nexter will work together on the turret and gun but at the same time, the Leopard 3 is also in development with a bunch of other countries in case the MGCS falls through.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    everyone is really going to light tank tech tree all of the sudden.
    something wrong with MBT's?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >something wrong with MBT's?

      Extremely heavy and expensive to logistically transport, maintain, overhaul and recover damage vehicles and there is alot of high elevation mountainous, coastal, swampy or hilly terrain that a 60-80 ton vehicle just cannot operate effectively.

      The ~2000-3000 mm of frontal RHA isn't going to do you any good when every single relatively modern anti tank munition attack from the top.

      heavy mbt will still fulfil the niche direct fire spearhead role, you don't need an mbt to fulfil the direct fire support role for infantry.

      APS and all the new fancy systems like DEW only adds more weight and take up more volume on your already bloated mbt platform from decades of update packages stacked on top of it.

      I might be forgetting other points but starting from a clean sheet design that integrates alot of mature tech and a more power power pack and transmission from the get-go to faciliate DEWs while be ligher in weight and easier to operate and maintain is generally a good idea.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      France is a light and mobile military, they wouldn't even use tanks if the Army got its way. EBRC is perfect for their needs and way of fighting.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing is wrong with them per se, but they finally publicly dropped another step down the ladder of relevance.
      WW2-early cold war: tanks are unstoppable gods of the strategic meta hard countering infantry and artillery (which is where the popular concept of tanks being optimized to kill other tanks comes from. they were the only major response to themselves).
      End of cold war through second gulf war (2003): tanks are operational scale powerhouses but no longer meta-defining strategic units.
      2010-today: tanks are useful, powerful tactical scale units but no longer shape the greater battlefield.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Their drop is according to drop in the effective protection levels. Tank that can't tank hits is useless as tank. Entir idea of the tank was making unit that tanks hits.
        Prior to WWII there was idea that light tanks can overwhelm AT guns with numbers of their bodies. In first war with modern for that time weapons (Civil war in Spain) destroyed that delusion.
        Tank must tank hits. Today it means all around layered active protection to stop those pesky drones. Of you can't your tank is useless.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Tanks has never dominated the entire land war at any time or that they are only pressured by their counterparts. The gun they fit on upgunned tank turret is often an already fielded AT gun churned out for infantry formations a year ago already.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can somebody explain to me, how anyone can seriously work on a porject with the french? From my personal experience, they are absolutely the worst to have in an international projects.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    heer is how it is going to go
    >discussions about variants of the tank
    >agree that the hull should be fit for mounting a more 'modular' turret and future upgrade packages
    >Germany decides it wants X small but slightly unusual feature on 1st design model
    >France also decides it wants y small but slightly unusual feature on 1st design model
    >agree that it's so small that it isn't an issue and can basically just be a bolt on
    >one of the two (probably Germany) decides it also wants to make Z adjustment that is a bit more serious but still is basically just an upgrade package, no real issue
    >they decide that actually they should redesign the hull or the engine or something in a way that kinda radically changes the tank
    >disagreements as they thought that both countries had largely agreed on a design
    >they now have 2 radically different tanks that would basically require 2 totally different supply chains.
    >both nations believe they can basically go their own way.
    >they cant
    "Hey guys welcome to the 2028 new joint tank production program"

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >they cant
      Except they can. At least Germany.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >>both nations believe they can basically go their own way.
      >>they cant
      Jesus Christ, you know fricking nothing. That's literally what happened every time.
      This entire thread is filled with butthurt frogs (though I've yet to figure out why they're angry) and massive morons.

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >MGCS
    ngl its based

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I like the EMBT but realistically the MGCS won't look as traditional.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/zVeYU1Q.jpg

        >MGCS
        ngl its based

        I hope it won't look like an ugly Leclerc. You can tell that the french are trying to capture the lead for this project as well.

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Spoiler: they are going to split again due to seething and cost overruns.

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