French mechanized forces new vehicles

why are the French mechanized forces buying griffons and servals APCs for their medium mechanized brigades?
I dont understand why they're buying 2 different models for the same role since thyere very similar.
2nd why are they so fixated with wheeled vehicles?
the griffon has stanag 4569 level 4 protection, so it's 14.5AP and 155m at 30m rated which is decent for an APC, but idk if it's all around.
at first glance it looks like an armored car which I expected to be less armored but it's actually well protected.
thing is that its 25 tons so if it goes in soft or too steep terrain would it be a problem?
the serval has the same protection and same dismount capacity but weighs 17 tons.
I dont understand what's the difference between them.

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    they like wheels because they mostly plan for highly mobile expeditionary forces in irregular conflicts, mostly in Africa.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >thing is that its 25 tons so if it goes in soft or too steep terrain would it be a problem?
    weight alone is not a major problem for mudding. If that were the case, a Geo Metro would make for a fantastic off-roader, but the overwhelmingly majority of the time you see guys in trucks with the fattest, widest tires they can get their hands on to reduce ground pressure. The tires on these French 6x6s are pretty fat too.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      any random sedan with knobby tires muds better than some 20 ton brick
      weight matters too, not just tire PSI

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Others things matter
        Yeah. Sedans have low clearance and terrible aproach and departure angles.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Reducing weight pressure isn't what work in mud, the opposite even.
      What we want is to reach under the muds while displacing the mud, increasing your grip.

      Reducing weight is for snow, because it crumple without flowing away, once crumpled you remain stuck in front of a snow wall that you cannot climb because it will just crumple and bury you as you try to push into it.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >why are the French mechanized forces buying griffons and servals APCs for their medium mechanized brigades?
    Because there's no money to buy tracked vehicles.
    >I dont understand why they're buying 2 different models for the same role since thyere very similar.
    Because one's a 4 wheels and the other a 6 wheels and there's already not enough money to put the relevant weapons systems on 8 wheelers.
    >2nd why are they so fixated with wheeled vehicles?
    Wheel mafia because African ops. Hopefully now that nignogs are kicking France out of Africa for refusing to genocide enemy tribes the wheel mafia will die
    >the griffon has stanag 4569 level 4 protection, so it's 14.5AP and 155m at 30m rated which is decent for an APC, but idk if it's all around.
    No it's not, these things are a joke, they're like 25 years late in terms of concept.
    >at first glance it looks like an armored car which I expected to be less armored but it's actually well protected.
    Yeah
    >thing is that its 25 tons so if it goes in soft or too steep terrain would it be a problem?
    Yeah
    >the serval has the same protection
    Yeah
    >and same dismount capacity
    No
    >but weighs 17 tons.
    Yeah
    >I dont understand what's the difference between them.
    One has 4 wheels and a certain engine and drivetrain the other 6 wheels and a different engine and drivetrain.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i mean why not give everyone APCI and then cars to airborne and mountain, and then IFVs to armored formations

      guess the reason is money as someone else said, idk of it's tho, or maybe just wrong planning

      >No it's not, these things are a joke, they're like 25 years late in terms of concept

      wouldn't giving them even better armor make them IFV type heavy which isnt good on a car?
      I see they have basic aluminum hull protection and no composite, so it might've been upped without much weight?
      I'm not a very big knowed of vehicle armor so tell me

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >APCI
        meant VBCI

        IFV I mean the griffon ofc

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >wheel mafia
      Spotted the blablachar incel

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I sometimes fantasize about how I would reform the force design of different countries. These french wheeled vehicles (grifgon, jaguar, serval) would be cool for the jordanian army. The Serval for a reworked border guards to fight jihadis and organized crime. And the other two for the motorized brigades to fight Israel and liberate the west bank.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Correct answer: because our procurement system for ground forces is horseshit. Those vehicles are basically what soldiers deployed in Afghanistan craved for, and the 4x4 is what soldiers deployed in Mali craved for. So now we have the perfect APC for terrains we left and wars that ended.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >preparing for the last war
      A tale as old as time.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        midwit take

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Griffon (6x6) is for line infantry, Serval (smaller, 4x4) is for airborne, amphibious and moutain troops
      isn't wrong either

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Serval (smaller, 4x4) is for airborne
        Can it get airdropped?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Everything can be airdropped.
          Once.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Adding to this with some corrections. Image is a bit old but it stills stands.
        Left are the two armored brigades : they get the VBCI IFV, Leclerc and some undefined future replacement for the VBL for cav (French cavalry doctrine is to have ATVs running around our tanks, covering their flanks, scouting and carrying ATGMs), and Griffon for engineers
        Middle is the amphibious brigade, the light armored brigade and the French-German joint brigade. Infantry and engineers gets Griffons, Cav gets Jaguar and VBL 2.0
        Right are the mountain and airborne brigades. Infantry and engineers get Serval, Cav gets Jaguars and VBL 2.0

        https://i.imgur.com/BzlfCOG.jpg

        >Serval (smaller, 4x4) is for airborne
        Can it get airdropped?

        Nope. Remember that we are not burgers, we don't have hundreds of gigantic frick off C-5 Galaxies. A French unit being "aiborne" means that everyone in there is trained to jump, the lighter stuff (mortars, ATVs, some enginerring equipement) is droppable along with people and the rest (APCs, light tanks, artillery) can fit into an A400M and comes later. Which is how we can have an airborne artillery regiment with CAESAR.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Frick me, forgot pic

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Isn't the VBCI more suited for Ukraine-era conflicts ? the Serval look more like an bus
            Also anyone knows how to make papercraft models using pictures of those vehicles ?? i can't find reliable and precise stuff please (i tried 3d modeling on sketchup but the proportions are all fricked up on my renders)

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It's not easy, because side and front views are readily found but top plan, no

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Well obviously since they're assigned to the two armored brigades' infantry regiments working alongside MBTs. Those are the two brigades that are supposed to go in heavy peer conflict like Ukraine. The other brigades are either
              a) environment-specific brigades who physicaly cannot afford to haul heavy shit in the mountains or in a transport plane
              b) rapid reaction expeditionary brigades who need the leanest logistics possible
              None of those are made for an Ukraine-style conflict, that the two heavy brigades' job

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          light units aside from being droppable or not have greater strategic mobility, in that their equipment (line soldiers, vehicles, ammo, spares, maintenance for vics, support train) is smaller and lighter, so you need less airlifts to bring everything where you want and so less time, so a more rapid response force, and after you need to sustain it, and a lighter force needs less fuel spares and ammo so the sustainment is easier to bring in with planes, and you can get them there with more stocks to start with

          see the difference in fuel and ammo requirements between a tank and ifv force vs light infantry motorized with armored cars

          how you'll go about it depends on where you think you'll deploy(distance, so length of flight, so total time for deployment), how many planes you have(how many flights can take place simultaneously, I think this also depends on the airport capacity, but you can stagger them so they arrive when the previous one is expected to have finished unloading), what type of plane you have(it sets the cap on the weight/size of vics you can lift, and how many fit inside one trip), agaisnt who (viability of certain formations and vehicles), if you have pre positioned stocks or you need to ship everything from home (see camp Darby for example)

          that's assuming you got an airport to land at, otherwise you need to drop people to conquer one, ports can be used but ships move slow, so for a rapid reaction force they're not good.

          ofc to be quicker on top of what I said, you can pre position forces and equipment like the us does in its bases around the world

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      couldn't afford an all-Griffon fleet, which was the original plan

      I'll be kind and say that you could do a lot worse than a nice big fleet of networked wheeled APCs for your troops in the European theatre

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What terrain will the next war be fought in and what vehicles would you procure in preparation?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        for france itll be somewhere in africa for the rest of enternity

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't know, that's why I would not procure vehicles solely suited for one type of battlefield or engagements.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >. So now we have the perfect APC for terrains we left and wars tha
      >t Sparky le wheeled Striker deathtrap
      Wheeled vehicles do fine in Ukraine. Ukrainians flanked Russians columns using just pick-up tracks and civilians SUVs lol, during Kharkiv offensive they added Humvees. European urbansied terrain with vast road network is very favorable for wheeled vehicles, they have extremely good strategic and operational mobility in these roads. I mean you can cross entire Ukraine within one day driving SUV.
      Wheels would struggle in Sweden or Finland, do French plan to fight in Sweden?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        After enough of shelling everything becomes Sweden or Finland

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Wheeled vehicles were doing fine in Bakhmut

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            we have webms of bogged down wheels at Barkmud, it was definitely suboptimal

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You typed this without thinking didn't you? How much shells will this take?

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because le broom broom, le broom broom brooom.

    That's why.

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