European FCAS delayed to 2050s

>“[The target of] 2040 is already missed, because we already stall, and the discussions of the next phase will surely also be long,” the CEO said. “So we rather aim for the 2050s”
Is it really that difficult? You got some of the most well known companies building it and they still can't produce it

  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why would you screenshot an article from two months ago?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I was wondering how fcas was doing then i found this article

      https://i.imgur.com/SYa8KJL.png

      Weapon systems are notorious for long-term development cycles.

      But they started the fcas program back in 2001. If they keep delaying it , we will never going to get to see it fly.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Weapon systems are notorious for long-term development cycles.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >still posting pentagon wars tier disinfo in 2022

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    LMAO

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/eNCFli3.jpg

      frogs can get fucked, they start out saying they want to partner up with the germans, and then 15 years in want to make everything themselves, keep all the licenses and just take the krauts money. germany should have teamed up with us brits.

      >https://www.janes.com/defence-news/air-platforms/latest/swedish-fcas-involvement-in-hibernation-says-saab-ceo
      Is this because of that that you're pulling some two month old articles?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Of course it is. It's damage control from bongs HQ in bongkingham palace. In the name of the queen, they shall constantly remind the whole internet they're better than the frogs.

        https://i.imgur.com/OrLtWCC.jpg

        Program naming bros….I think we have an issue…

        Quick fact: the french and the germans were not even capable of agreeing upon a common name for the New Generation Fighter. The french proposed "Ouragan" (Hurricane) in reference to the MD-450 Ouragan, an early 50's jet from Dassault. Problem, in Germany, the translation is "Orkan", and it was an air to air rocket from the 3rd reich period, as well as the name of the Jumo 004B-1 engine.
        >https://www.landmarkscout.com/r4m-orkan-german-air-to-air-rocket/
        >http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/WingsOfEaglesMuseum/AircraftEngines/pages/08JunkersJumo004BTurbojetEngine.htm
        Needless to say the name was rejected.
        We're still at this point as of today. Expect more craziness in the next coming months, until Dassault snaps and decide to go alone.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >naming problems
          I've no idea what the German translation is, but I bet it's hilarious.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Can some French anon explain how the fuck "Balzac" got anywhere near naming a plane anyway? You'd think it'd be right down at the bottom of the list of potential names next to Arschfondler and Tatasuckeur

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Depends. For the mirage as an optical illusion phenomenon it's "Luftspiegelung". For the specific phenomenon in hot desertic environment it's "Fata Morgana". For the mirage as an hallucination of the mind it's "trugbild".
            Your choice.

            Can some French anon explain how the fuck "Balzac" got anywhere near naming a plane anyway? You'd think it'd be right down at the bottom of the list of potential names next to Arschfondler and Tatasuckeur

            Can you at wikipedia anon?
            Honoré de Balzac was a french writer.
            >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honoré_de_Balzac
            The vertical take off Mirage V was reusing the wings of the Mirage III 001 prototype which was nicknamed this way.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Thank you for the context. More planes need to be named after writers.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        There would never have been anything for Sweden to do until post 2025 anyway, It's a UK led program. This timeline has been known since 2015 and made public with tempest in 2017.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      perfidious albion strikes again

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You wirr buy Mitsubishi F-3 and you wirr rike it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Here's your Tempest m8

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        For a japanese plane this sure looks like an american one.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          None of the airframe designs are finalized, anything out there currently is just artistic renders that MIGHT have some connection to a potential prototype at best, and at worst are just purely artistic creations.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Every swept back fighter that is Stealth angled with reflective canopies and fixed panel radars are American copies
          Anon, I hate to break it to you but there is more than America out there designing modern aircraft

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      this is the real Tempest design by the way, not that toy-like mock up they've been parading around

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        another view

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          A sign of cooperation moving forward or just parallel evolution?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/0NT7CZY.jpg

          Alternatively, here's the superior Dassault pelican tail / JAST-like NGF, much sooperior to whatever the bongtalianjaposwedes are coming up with, design-wise.

          Just contemplate the nu-Tempest [...] which is starting to look more and more like an F-22 while the early design of the Tempest was a cool delta wing [...], and the early design of the F-X derived from the Shinshin was more innovative: [...]

          This is the sign of intellectual bankrupcy.
          Tempest will be shelved and everybody will buy the NGAD to go alongside their F-35s.
          Everybody except the french who don't have the F-35.

          Very original designs

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >This bro about to start comparing monoplanes as all the same because they all have one wing

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    GET FUCKED FRANCE

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    frogs can get fucked, they start out saying they want to partner up with the germans, and then 15 years in want to make everything themselves, keep all the licenses and just take the krauts money. germany should have teamed up with us brits.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >germany should have teamed up with us brits
      Combined quality of VW and Rover, that would be something.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        that sounds awful

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Is there a reason why a group of Euro countries couldn't have just partners with the US to make one? They're already buying F-35s. Might as well work worth someone that knows how to do all this advanced shit.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Because they did that with the F35 and it was slow as shit.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      exactly. Worked for the Tornado and the Eurofighter.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    France/Germany/Spain have FCAS
    UK also has FCAS (Tempest)

    US has NGAD (USAF) and NGAD (USN)

    what the fuck is wrong with these people in their program naming?

    We have simultaneously 4 different 6th gen fighter projects sharing 2 names.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I thought the Navy's was F/A-XX

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        F/A-GX

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        If you want to get technical NGAD is the family, F/A-XX is the fighter component.

        > The F/A-XX is expected to be the fighter component and centerpiece of the Navy's Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) family of systems. Although identically named, this program is distinct from the U.S. Air Force's NGAD program

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Oh lmao

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, so we have FCAS(UK), FCAS(EU), NGAD(US), and NGAD(US)

            Thank god we cleared that up.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Program naming bros….I think we have an issue…

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    the euros just need to give the Americans money and buy from us, because we at least produce in bulk and theyre all on our Good Guy list anyway

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      We aren't going to sell NGAD

      Just like we didn't sell F-22s

      At BEST UK or Japan could get some tech details from the US and maybe some limited technology sharing.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You say that like half of America hasn't become crazy fascists.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        western Europe is going the same direction really

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You say that like it's a bad thing.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >FCAS delayed to 2050's
    Jesus, is FCAS still a thing?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Which one?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The one the Euros are (allegedly) working on.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Which one?

          France/Spain/Germany have one
          UK/Sweden/Italy have another

          Both are called FCAS.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I thought the British lead one was called TEMPEST (it's in all caps everywhere I've seen it referred to).

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              No, Tempest is the name of the jet, FCAS is the name of the overarching program.

              > It is being developed as part of the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) programme by a consortium known as "Team Tempest", which includes the Ministry of Defence, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Leonardo UK, and MBDA UK.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Huh, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the information. The Franco-Germanic one then.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's looking the most DOA

                They're the furthest behind from what we've seen publicly discussed from other 6th gen programs.
                NGAD(both of them), FCAS(UK), and F-X(Japan) have all had somewhat detailed media overview, the french FCAS program on the other hand has been almost silent in comparison.

                The Japanese and UK projects working on a joint engine development demonstrator is also a good sign for both programs.

                There has also been discussion about the US sharing NGAD tech with both the UK and Japanese projects, but I've not seen anything about potentially sharing with France.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's not the sort of project they can cancel and buy a foreign built/designed plane for (assuming anybody would sell or license one to them) without huge damage to their reputation; how long can they keep spending money on a project that's not going anywhere?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Japan's 6th gen project was originally being designed for the export market, no saying if they'll actually follow through with that, but they did change their laws to allow sales if they wanted to.

                UK similarly will likely also try to capture the EU market if the french/german FCAS project really does end up flopping.

                US is likely staying out of the export market again (like they did with the F-22).

                So that leaves 3 potential contenders for 6th gen export sales to western aligned nations. At the moment I think UK has the best shot at it, Japan however also has a good chance, their biggest challenge will be pricing, but if they can get enough orders that can sort itself out.

                The french/german FCAS is the 3rd option and seems like the "best" option for the EU, but if it's a decade+ late, most EU nations will have already invested in one of the other two options.

                Honestly, France and Germany should make a decision by 2025-27. If they're still behind the other 2 they should drop out, or attempt to latch onto either of those programs.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The US is inevitably going to make a low-mix sixth gen fighter to replace/supplement F-35. I don't think either FCAS will be read before the US's economical fighter hits the market.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                obviously it wont since most of the european countries that have any aero industry will be involved just like in f35

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                F-35 is slated to be around until 2070.

                So yeah, maybe in the 2050s we'll start our low-mix 6th gen development with it being done in the 2060's and fielded in the late 2060s and 2070s.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The replacement comes into service about a decade or 2 before what it's replacing retires. F-16 is going to stay in service for another decade even when F-35 is FRP and being accepted in large quantities. If they want to retire F-35 by 2070, the replacement has to be IOC by 2050. Entering service about a decade after "Penetrating Counter Air" does to let the technology mature a bit makes sense.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Low mix 6th gen
                My money would be on a automomous wingman and block upgrade program to supplement the F-16s & F-35s that they already have. Bet they could sell it all for half the cost of putting a new type in service and the euros would slurp it down gladly rather than spend a single eurocent more than they absolutely need to on defence

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Japan are working with Bongoloids on their Tempest project.
                You can Google it and potentially Japan might go Tempest over their own program.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That's horseshit speculation. They're doing a joint engine development project that MAY or may not be used by EITHER Tempest or the F-X. They're also looking at POTENTIALLY further cooperation in regards to airframe design and missile technologies.

                There has been ZERO official talk of merging the projects or japan just straight dropping the F-X.

                Even the rumors about further cooperation are just speculation, it's completely unfounded to talk about a merge of the projects or an abandonment of the F-X project. Neither government has made statements to either effect.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Japan might go Tempest
                proofs?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                He aint got none because it's totally baseless speculation.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                he must be Facelessman on the bird app

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                He aint got none because it's totally baseless speculation.

                >https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/exclusive-britain-japan-aim-merge-tempest-f-x-fighter-programmes-sources-2022-07-14/

                Cry about it

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                By your logic, Britain is also going F-X over Tempest.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                F-X can't exist without outside help, Tempest can. Don't be salty because your shitty project is delayed to the 2050's lol imagine the state of France halving to use 4th gen fighters in the 2040's

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That's a bold claim with no source.

                Japan has made public statements to contrary saying they'll go it alone if they need to.

                So what the fuck makes you think Tempest, a program that already had 2 partner nations (Sweden and Italy) is the project with the most legs?

                Show your British passport.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I don't need to source shit for brainlets on a rice farming forum

                Kek, I'm not fucking French or even the OP, I don't have faith in the Dassault FCAS either.
                You're just here to seethe at the frogs and their little fighter jet and throw your partners under the bus.

                Gloating isn't seething, there's a reason we turned down the French years ago and this is exactly why.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I don't need to source shit for brainlets on a rice farming forum
                Because there is no source you dumb moron.
                >I don't have to source things I made up
                No shit m

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Cry more, you don't matter to me now hurry up and give me another reply gay

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Kek, I'm not fucking French or even the OP, I don't have faith in the Dassault FCAS either.
                You're just here to seethe at the frogs and their little fighter jet and throw your partners under the bus.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >potentially Japan might go Tempest over their own program.
                Why the fuck would japan do that? Wouldn't that be a waste of the last ~15 years of R&D work and all that money?

                I don't think they're going to give up on a domestic 6th gen unless they REALLY think they can't afford it.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Wouldn't that be a waste of the last ~15 years of R&D work and all that money?
                They already have a history of working on their own passenger jet and failed miserably, so they may not want to risk the same consequences.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The Franco-German one, the UK's is a lot more loose consortium wise and will probably look more like joint systems development for different but very similar final airframes built in their respective countries.

            EU FCAS is looking to replicate the EU consortium model which is a little more rigid, but perhaps less likely to completely collapse if things go badly, just get dragged out and become super expensive.

            Last I checked Japan was considering partnering on engine and missile development, Australia was considering tagging in for loyal wingman stuff and Sweden were fence sitting hard for some reason despite already having signed an MOU. Italy are hard at work, but on Eurofighter bridging systems, with the UK the only one seriously doing airframe and holistic system design work.

            I'd give the Tempest FCAS a better chance of producing something than EU-FCAS right now, but it might not look like an aeroplane and it could well splinter into national programs MBT-70 style with each partner continuing alone after getting the most out of a joint design study.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >Sweden were fence sitting hard for some reason despite already having signed an MOU.

              The government is bankrupt but doesnt want to admit it.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    lets be honest here
    so long that germany has a say on anything regarding defence in europe it will never go forward
    or if it will it will become a fucking shitshow like RPAS
    they are not working for europe and never will

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      As much as it sucks, I have to agree. Germany CONSTANTLY fucks with European security in a negative way and then acts all shocked when other nations get pissy with them about it.

      I fucking hate modern germany specifically for this reason.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Hopefully they'll be too busy freezing to death to do much more of it.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Germany wants to get all the tech and kill Dassault. But yeah muh French are the bad guys again.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I believe you 🙂 death to ze germans

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >FCAS program started back in 2001
    and I here thought JSF was the biggest aircraft disaster

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What REALLY needs to happen is the French pony up for the entire program and make it a French project. But since European money is involved and other European companies need to be supported there has to be this European program. But for it to work there MUST be leadership. Why is leadership such a major problem in the EU?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Why is leadership such a problem in the EU
      Because they're trying to make a supernational organisation without dissolving the individual nations. Everyone will always want the biggest slice of the pie for their own tribe and until that tribalism is eliminated they are cursed to inefficiently negotiate over every workshare detail and risk program collapse over one member's internal politics.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    KAI developed the KF21 in 5 years from design to operational prototypes, over 200 will be operational within three years, so 8 years from drawings to killing targets, with an 8 year development cycle they could be 9th gen by the time a prototype of this is in the air

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      KF21 is 4.5 gen, FCAS is a completely different league

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        But there are rumors the KF 21 could be upgraded to 5th gen should it be given internal bays

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Yes, in the mid 2030s, not next year.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I never said soon, I just said it's a real possibility since SK doesn't fuck around. They actually know how to make fighters

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I mean, it's kind of irrelevant if the KF-21 is a 5th gen in the mid to late 2030s if the US, UK, and Japan all have 6th generation fighters in the same time period

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You're assuming it isn't just gonna be the US with 6th gen and the other countries with "5+" gen

                [...]
                [...]
                Don't ignore the glaring issue with your post originally, you're full of shit regarding number of planes.

                I only commented on the stealth capabilities, wrong Anon dude

                >rumors the KF 21
                So? The KF-21 really doesn't have a market.

                The hell it doesn't. It's cheaper than the F 35, and Poland is eying them heavily. If the FA-50 is anything to go by, it's gonna be sold to poorer countries

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >You're assuming it isn't just gonna be the US with 6th gen and the other countries with "5+" gen
                Japan already did 5th gen (something the UK skipped over) so of the two, Japan has the most recent experience developing a modern stealth jet.

                Also if Japan and the UK do end up merging their projects AND the US provides technical assistance with 6th gen technologies, I don't think they'll have any problems pushing out a 6th gen by the mid to late 2030s.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                IF they do merge projects, the Tempest will be certainly advanced. But the fact remains the world is playing catch up, especially Europe. I don't expect them to hit gen 6

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >something the UK skipped over

                The UK had multiple 5th gen projects before merging them into what would become F35, and is currently working on the Turkish 5th gen.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >The hell it doesn't.
                It's a fourth gen fighter so it would have to compete against the usual crowd and won't win. And if it gets upgraded to fifth gen then it would compete against the F-35, with the amount of US technologies it uses it can't be sold to anyone other than the F-35 customer base.

                Who would buy it?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Anywhere American jets have been sold, so many southeast Asian countries, and again, Poland has outright said they are looking at it because ITS CHEAPER. and it's a 4.5 gen jet, it's stealthy, tho not full stealth

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                So these nations would scrap their F-16s for something just as capable?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The F16 I'd from the 70s. No stealth. At all. The KF-21 actually has limited stealth, and can possibly be upgraded to true stealth. It's much more capable. And not all those nations have f16s. Some are still flying fucking F 5's

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Some are still flying fucking F 5's
                If they don't have money then why would they buy a stealth fighter?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Anon, BEST Korea is still using Chinese clones of MiG-17s, and 15s even.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >rumors the KF 21
          So? The KF-21 really doesn't have a market.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >over 200 will be operational within three years
      I'm sorry... WHAT the fuck are you smoking?

      > Six flying prototypes, including two two-seat versions, will conduct 2,200 flights until mass production begins in 2026. 40 Block-1 jets will have an interim capability limited to air-to-air duties, then the following 80 Block-2 jets from 2028 will add air-to-ground engagement.

      So 6 planes until 2026 when they'll have 40 built in 2 years as Block-1 spec, then 2028+ they're building 80 Block-2 spec

      So that's 126 in 8-12 years.

      not 200+ in 3 years.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >over 200 will be operational within three years
      I'm sorry... WHAT the fuck are you smoking?

      > Six flying prototypes, including two two-seat versions, will conduct 2,200 flights until mass production begins in 2026. 40 Block-1 jets will have an interim capability limited to air-to-air duties, then the following 80 Block-2 jets from 2028 will add air-to-ground engagement.

      So 6 planes until 2026 when they'll have 40 built in 2 years as Block-1 spec, then 2028+ they're building 80 Block-2 spec

      So that's 126 in 8-12 years.

      not 200+ in 3 years.

      https://i.imgur.com/L6ipq5u.jpg

      But there are rumors the KF 21 could be upgraded to 5th gen should it be given internal bays

      Don't ignore the glaring issue with your post originally, you're full of shit regarding number of planes.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I think its legitimate that the Germans dont want Dassault to do everything, but why are they asking for all the tech the company has? Whats the rationale here and why do they think its a legitimate demand? Of course Dassault is going to give them the finger.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    are europeans retarded
    why can't they do anything right

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Americans are European

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        you know what i mean

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        4chan would bitch and moan at you for this.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          4chan is retarded though.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Look at calendar
      >Year of our Lord 2022
      >77 years since ww2 ended
      >Eurotards till don't have their shit together
      Why is Europe so useless? They were supposed to start a new glorious paradigm for living

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Because they hate bongs so much they assume anything they do must be wrong.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    ITT: post superior Dassault tail-less NGF.
    Reminder: if your 6th gen design is not tail less, it's not a true 6th gen. Maybe a 5.5th top, or probably a 5.25, or a 5+.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Alternatively, here's the superior Dassault pelican tail / JAST-like NGF, much sooperior to whatever the bongtalianjaposwedes are coming up with, design-wise.

      Just contemplate the nu-Tempest

      https://i.imgur.com/R5PYMnJ.jpg

      another view

      which is starting to look more and more like an F-22 while the early design of the Tempest was a cool delta wing

      https://i.imgur.com/1njZ1I2.jpg

      LMAO

      , and the early design of the F-X derived from the Shinshin was more innovative:

      https://i.imgur.com/VnsfLmi.jpg

      A sign of cooperation moving forward or just parallel evolution?

      This is the sign of intellectual bankrupcy.
      Tempest will be shelved and everybody will buy the NGAD to go alongside their F-35s.
      Everybody except the french who don't have the F-35.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >the early design of the Tempest was a cool delta wing
        Early Tempest looks like a cheap plastic toy

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        NGAD won't be for sale, don't be delusional

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >NGAD
          bro D

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Sorry sweetie, but America will decide what 6th Gen actually is. Since we’ll be the first to develop one, and the only country who can deploy them in large numbers. But play nice and save your Pennie’s, and maybe you can buy some or build a handful, hahahahahahaha

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >2050
    Just scrap the program, shit is going to collapse long before then

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    So is the plan to put out a fifth gen aircraft when the US is around 6.5/early 7th?

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    So the Germans are trying to fuck the French?

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Suggestion:
    >The french make FCAS on their own
    >Germany goes for drone tech, first with a bayraktar clone (should be doable) then with a cheap jet, maybe with the gripen as basis
    >Also improve upon Diehls AA missiles
    When the time comes, everyone in europe can buy french, american or british - should be enough options between those. And those who don't have full trust in their air forces can invest more heavily in long range missiles and AA missile systems.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What does it matter? Fighters are obsolete due to missiles. They should just focus on making better missiles

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >What does it matter? Fighters are obsolete due to missiles. They should just focus on making better missiles

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    basically, France is trying to fuck over Germany.
    Dassault (French) is supposed to make the aircraft, Safran (French) the engine. But Germany is supposed to provide equal funding for the project. And to make it "fair", Germany is supposed to get the lead on the MGCS tank project and drone wingmen and combat cloud to complement the fighter.
    Problem is, these meme side projects and the tank project aren't even close to as important and expensive as the fighter, so it's a shitty tradeoff. Also as it looks, Germany doesn't even have the lead on the MGCS, Nexter (French) does.
    When you consider that the projected cost for the FCAS is 100 billion euros, you might understand German reservations.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That's on Germany for agreeing to bad deals

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        it's on Merkel for signing this shit. And Germany is still free to pull out unless France agrees to a better deal. The decision should be made soon though.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >these meme side projects and the tank project aren't even close to as important and expensive as the fighte

      They are, and the combat cloud + loyal wingmen might be more valuable in the long terms, in terms of benefits, than the value added by yet-another fighter. Keep in mind France has leadership on only 1 pillar out of five, it is quite normal that they want to protect it

      >Germany doesn't even have the lead on the MGCS,

      Wrong, KMW, the German part of KNDS is lead on it. What is fucking the program is Rheinmetal trying to bully their way into it with support of the government members whose lander would economically benefit from it

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >muh pillars
        the fighter and engine are by far the most expensive and important parts, which are basically all French. Relabeling it doesn't change that.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The reality is that both France and Germany would rather be working with the UK than with each other.

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