Tarkin Doctrine emphasized psychological impact over military effectiveness. The weapons didn't have to work per se, just make people scared enough not to rebel. This was really stupid but I guess it kinda makes sense if you feel that you have no other way to possibly maintain control over the galaxy.
>the psychological effectiveness of letting the Rebels post endless spacetube videos of imperial tie fighter pilots getting slaughtered by rebel fighters.
Because corruption. If they really wanted to keep people in line they would just have a million riot police barracks on every planet. They didn't need a Navy, just a Coast Guard type organization.
>If they really wanted to keep people in line they would just have a million riot police barracks on every planet.
They didn't have the money for that. As ridiculous as it sounds, the Deathstar was supposed to be a cost cutting move.
If they wanted to cut costs, they could've simply not have built up a massive military. That only makes sense if you think that they did it to defend against a future invasion. Otherwise they were building a huge military to do a police job of fighting criminals and dissidents and they otherwise didn't have much competition if at all.
Dude... anon was saying the Death Star was built so that planets would fall in line. Because he was having difficulty getting people to obey him. That's how the Rebel Alliance (and IRL corruption) works. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes, geddit? The threat of being completely obliterated would get planetary governments to crack down harder on rebels and dissidents in order to save their own skin. It would be impossible to build a big enough military to force all planets everywhere to comply.
You're not cut out for this people management thing, are ya?
Yeah but after the first one is destroyed the doctrine fails,since any rebel now knows that they are paper tigers.But to be fair the ships used by other factions aren't well designed either.
The Death Star was lost mere days after Alderaan's destruction though, so evaluating how effective it would have been at quelling dissent is going to be skewered by the fact that most of the galaxy found out about these two events almost simultaneously.
No, it's more like collective punishment. Rather then trying to get everyone to play nice because they like or at least tolerate the government, make it so that if you have rebels on your planet, you're risking sudden random death of everyone on said planet. This in turn will get the populations to self police themselves super hard to avoid the risk of the Death Star showing up. Of course, this idea didn't work well IRL because it turns out that killing civilians just means that everyone else hates you and has no reason to hold back if they're gonna die anyway, so unless you're content ruling a bunch of asteroid fields, Tarkin doctrine was fundamentally flawed.
[...]
Yeah, that shot was literally and unironically kino. Ironically pretty much the only good thing about the whole nu trilogy.
The absolute silence in the theater when it happened was a cool moment. All the technical aspects of the sequels are pretty great, visuals, sound design, etc. Not having any overarching plan for the story just completely fucked them.
>All the technical aspects of the sequels are pretty great, visuals, sound design, etc. Not having any overarching plan for the story just completely fucked them.
yeah and it was annoying how they just kept getting worse. you could be forgiven for enjoying rogue one. some people could have fun at 7. the rest, blegh.
I betcha if the audience hadn't turned against the movie by then nobody would have given a fuck. Nerds would have just made up fan-canon on the spot justifying it.
But every preceding problem makes the next one stick out more.
Chicken and egg, anon. The audience turned against the movie because they sensed it was retarded, even if they couldn't exactly put their finger on why.
>I betcha if the audience hadn't turned against the movie by then nobody would have given a fuck. Nerds would have just made up fan-canon on the spot justifying it.
Even if the rest of the movie had been great it would still have been a shitty ending. There was no foreshadowing or anything, the writer just needed the rebels to win so they pulled something out of their ass.
>yo momma >pizza slice shoots stationary base first instead of fleet about to escape >those fucking bombers >lmao we ean out of gas >three ties take out the entirety of the rebs remaining fighters and decapitate rebel leadership >one gets blown up so the imps pull them back in the first display of ever giving a single fuck about the lives of tie pilots >that was the second time they decided to just no wipe out the rebs for good >everything about holdo >got get this guy he's the only one who can do it >oh wait no this rando will do >every retarded fucking thing rose says or does >hey kids here's the logo of the rebel alliance/new republic who didn't give enough of a fuck about you or your planet to help so you should totally help us so we can live and still leave you in this fucking stable >shitty imitation of the dagobah cave scene that says nothing >everything else relating to luke and his island as well >hurr durr fight for what you love and not what you hate like finn wasn't doing exactly that >that shitty throne room fight scene >the fucking hyperspace ram
Everything about that fucking movie was god awful and an actual insult to fans.
I did get a chuckle out of Hux nearly blasting Kylo before he woke up. That was actually funny.
>shitty imitation of the dagobah cave scene that says nothing
Lucas: so, like, you have to be careful not to fall to the Dark Side in yourself, McKay
Johnson: UMM LIKE WEIRD MIRROR EFFECTS AND UMM NOTHING HAHA FOOLED YA AGAIN LOLOLOL
You're forgetting some juicy bits: >replace Luke "there's still good in him" Skywalker with Luke "my teenage nephew is kind of angsty, guess I have to kill him in his sleep" Skywalker >Kill Luke in post-production. Don't tell Mark Hamil until he sees it firsthand in the premier.
Hamil is a gay that spends all day crying about Trump and talking about how evil white people are so I really don't feel bad for him at all
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Mark is right though. Imagine if Palpatine was a giant, whiny bitch who coasted on his charisma and the corrupt system protecting him rather than being an actual chess master playing everyone for suckers and you'd get Trump.
I say this as something of a former SW autist: as far as I'm concerned, the lore was pretty fucked before this shot, if for no other reason than the 1.8 movies immediately preceding it. At least there was fucking artistry at work for this one moment, and an understanding of what made Star Wars compelling as a cinematic experience.
[...] >MUH LORE
The Lore never matched what was on the screen. Every time a ship goes into hyperspace in any of the starwars movies, we're shown a rapid acceleration, where the stars seem to rush towards the ship, then a swirling blue tunnel which is hyperspace. The scene in Last Jedi seems to utilize that initial acceleration for a short range kamikaze attack.
This shit while looking rad is too retarded to be canon as is retroactively completely wrecks the verisimilitude of the setting. If this was even remotely how hyperspace worked in SW, a setting that has had commercially available hyperspace travel for more than a millennia, warfare would have adopted a hyperspace cannon and kill vehicle meta several hundreds of years before the OT takes place.
Nobody truly understands how hyperspace works in the Star Wars universe. I would imagine being able to guide an unmanned vehicle in it would be nearly impossible. It’s also stated later that it was a pretty low odds kind of maneuver. She was just taking a swing and hoping she made contact.
That was the cope excuse they made afterwards in the third movie because their shit got called out. Let me reiterate, if that was even remotely possible, the galaxy would have weaponized it centuries if not millennia before the OT.
>It’s also stated later that it was a pretty low odds kind of maneuver.
The crew of Imperial ship was very aware of what's she's doing and they were scared shitless. In director mind it was concept that everyone were aware of, not some on in the million fluke
>I prefer the fuckery this fiasco caused.
I am just wondering how Star Wars is supposed to move forward now that any capital ship can fit a laser powerful enough to destroy a planet. Who the fuck thought that sort of insane power creep was remotely a good idea?!
Its a bit of a nothingburger if you ask me, of sure its possible now for every two bit star destroyer to have that laser, but does anyone know how to build one?
>but does anyone know how to build one?
Probably if not from the remains of hundreds of crashed ships then from investigating how they were built. Over a thousand of these things were built. It would be one hell of a handwave to put that genie back in the bottle... not that anyone seems to care about being coherent at Disney anymore.
The whateverthefuck class star destroyer is almost twice as big as a regular star destroyer and even with that size the power required to power the laser made it a flying bomb. If the new canon about the death star is consistant though that means you'll still need a shitload of light saber crystals to put in there. Now take into account that Palpatine built 10k of those things, they must have had a fuck load or found a way to synthesize them. Since all 10k were wrecked on the same sith world, the potential for superlaser weapons proliferation in the post-ST galaxy is massive and every spooky actor is going to want to go there and scavenge crystals and tech to make their own. Also, since 10k ships each with 30k crew on them were destroyed by Lando's angry flying space mob, said mob must have been insanely massive. One side was entirely wiped out and the losses for Lando gang was likely also collossal simply from the sheer scale of the battle, and given that they almost lost. We're talking about at least 300 million people, and easily twice that once accounting for both sides, died in the space of a couple of hours on a sort of planet that's usually already haunted as fuck.
This isn't even getting into there likely being a major power vacuum after the ST as every major player has been destroyed to such a degree that Lando's ancap mob had to save the day. Welcome to ancap post colonial space African with recreational McSuperlaser proliferation.
There's got to be a massive industrial complex on that cultist rock producing Kyber crystals. So now there's a planets sized shipyard in bumfuck nowhere that's temporarily unoccupied
>Don't worry, just buy issue #1756 of the latest Star Wars comic that drops some tantalizing hints!
>After that you might want to buy this other book that goes into deeper detail about these starships!
My dude, none of this is a problem. In fact, the worse these movies are the better it is for Disney. Now you can release a thousand other tie ins that provide some critical piece of context that "fix" the movie or expand on the many shitty "characters" they've added. Star Wars fans are some of the worst hyper-consumers out there.
The EU had a dumb weapon called the Sun Crusher that exploded stars instead of crushing them. It was also just bullshit invincible and would destroy battleships by just ramming through them kool-aid man style.
Everyone agreed that it was dumb and they dropped it into the middle of a gas giant to forget about it.
I always love the art of captured Imperial ships >We stole this Star Destroyer >Cool, go paint a big ass Phoenix on the side so everyone knows what team you're on
Why is it a boondoggle?
Hero units can really turn the tide in any EAW battle, which is a fairly good strategic representation of SW battles. >in space anyway, the ground combat is retarded
They accomplished nothing in the same battle. As far as EaW goes having one of those around severely reduces attrition.
You're forgetting that it took literally the entire Rebel fleet to overwhelm its defences
[...] >why build a single B-2 when you can build like thirty-two F-16s for the same price
>You're forgetting that it took literally the entire Rebel fleet to overwhelm its defences
It had a larger fleet escorting it, the death star picking off multiple ships at long range and an overwhelming advantage in fighters. Space magic was not on their side.
>It had a larger fleet escorting it
Which was apparently hampered by its own numbers and unable to engage effectively >the death star picking off multiple ships at long range
Apparently stopped by the Rebel fleet hugging the Imperial fleet >and an overwhelming advantage in fighters
TIEs do really badly against Rebel fighters
Also the battle was interrupted by the destruction of the Death Star. Frankly I believe the Rebels were at their last gasp and the remaining ISDs should have been able to finish them off. IOW they made a suicide run for the Death Star and the Super Star Destroyer.
>Which was apparently hampered by its own numbers and unable to engage effectively
At worst they'd be able to engage rebel ships 1 or 2 to one both sides ships were built around broadsides.
>Apparently stopped by the Rebel fleet hugging the Imperial fleet
Doesn't bring back lost ships.
>TIEs do really badly against Rebel fighters
Not in episode IV.
>Not in episode IV.
4 of them got bodied by a freighter while the remainder were Vader's personally trained squadron of super elite pilots assisted by like a thousand turbo lasers constantly targeting the rebel fighters limiting their movement and splitting their focus as they have to dodge both.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>4 of them got bodied by a freighter
If one takes a step back, wasn't Corellia's strategy (at least during the Imperial Era) in effect to build vast numbers of high-performance dual-use spacecraft in complement to what the Mon Calamari did on the heavier end?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Thankfully the rebels were only fielding freighters at Endor.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
No
Corellia's strategy was being so fucking rich and so fucking monopolistic that even the Emperor didn't dare piss them off overly. It's like what if somebody built literally all the merchant shipping in the world and invading them would just turn off international trade and leave the entire world to starve.
Even so I think in the Imperial era they were compromised and had to cooperate with the Emperor.
Even peak Imperial rule had significant limitations, and the Rebels thrived in these areas. Hutt Space being another one of them.
Apparently those guns are really short range.
How else to explain the use of fighters and bombers in space, and ships manoeuvring so close that they can collide?
>Which was apparently hampered by its own numbers and unable to engage effectively
At worst they'd be able to engage rebel ships 1 or 2 to one both sides ships were built around broadsides.
>Apparently stopped by the Rebel fleet hugging the Imperial fleet
Doesn't bring back lost ships.
>TIEs do really badly against Rebel fighters
Not in episode IV.
>they'd be able to engage rebel ships 1 or 2 to one
Correct
So even if you have 100 ISDs and the Rebels have 10 MC70s, you're not engaging 10 ships to 1. >Doesn't bring back lost ships
Does limit further attrition >Not in episode IV
Trench run =/= dogfighting
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>So even if you have 100 ISDs and the Rebels have 10 MC70s, you're not engaging 10 ships to 1.
20 to 10 while those 10 are focusing on the SSD sounds good?
>Does limit further attrition
Is this saying they could do less damage or that losing ships is good because they can't be lost twice?
>Trench run =/= dogfighting
There was plenty of dogfighting. Even looking at the trench run alone TIE fighters catching up and generally requiring a single hit to kill doesn't say great things about the X wing's superiority.
>I doubt the industrial capacity of the empire (Especially with its heavy reliance on KDY) could increase that rate of production much
They found enough industrial capacity to build the Death Star which is the size of all those 25,000 Star destroyers put together... then they did it again. Actually building the Death Star kinda makes even Super Star Destroyers a drop in the pan.
To increase the production any further they would need to recreate the industrial infrastructure of KDY somewhere else.
Even if star wars doesn't acknowledge it the construction of warships is a big industrial commitment which requires a lot of resources.
Saying they built the death star instead of 25k additional ISDs is disingenuous as they would probably not have the yard space for double production of ISDs
Instead I'd say they built the Death Star instead of another massive shipyard capable of producing another 500+ ISDs per year
>To increase the production any further they would need to recreate the industrial infrastructure of KDY somewhere else.
Do you think the Death Star required no industrial infrastructure to build? The parts for it were just produced nowhere? What you are seeing in picrel is just final assembly, all that had to be built somewhere. The off screen industrial infrastructure that fabricated the individual parts for that monster is clearly far past whatever section of KDY was dedicated to Imperial Star Destroyer production.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
NTA but building a one-off like the DS is more like constructing a building than mass producing multiple warships off the same plans
This. It's the same problem as with all those "Germans should build only u-boats".
A lot of resources used by one can't be just used in construction of other. Unless you wanna steam powered, heavy armoured u-bout with single 389cm gun
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah industry and competence isn't something you just get instantly by throwing monet att it. Industry can expand with financial resources but that expansion will always take a premium.
The industry construction the DS is much better suited to expand military and civilian infrastructure than building ships directly.
If those resources were to be put to use increasing the number of warships it would be in the form of expanded infrastructure and production capacity. Setting up new industries to produce parts, increase outputof required materials(still probably in the form of prison work camps and slavery) and increasing the amount of officers being trained to man it all.
This would probably actually secure a lot of planets for the empire as due to the increase in commercial activity and investments connected to such a project.
Instead of what the DS construction was, a pure drain with minimal beneficial commercial effects as all construction was done in absolute secrecy using slave labour and resulting in the extermination of one of the most productive (tho admittedly with fickle loyalties) industrial complexes in the outer rim. The project in short deprived the empire of vast amounts of resources while simultaneously directly resulting in the destruction of a major industrial center. All this while using the industrial capacity that would otherwise be focused on infrastructure and improving the economy. If that effort had instead been spent on increasing the amount of warships the biggest impact wouldn't be the amount of warships in service but the amount of warships can be produced, refitted, repaired and all the industrial processes that brings
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>This would probably actually secure a lot of planets for the empire as due to the increase in commercial activity and investments connected to such a project
Lol no
You can't just throw money and investments at people and expect them to be grateful and buy into your Sith Imperial globohomo
That's the mistake the Americans made in Iraq
They will happily take your cash and your weapons and use it against you
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
If your livelihood is dependent on a institution you are incentivised to not disrupt said instituion. As long as other incentives don't outweigh it.
It won't magically pacify a hostile population. But it might convince an uncertain one. Or atleast make it apathetic
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>As long as other incentives don't outweigh it.
That's the problem: the Rebel ISIS Alliance have better incentives than the Empire's goodies does, ie to overthrow the Emperor.
You're talking about a fundamental principle of politics here: why handouts sometimes work and sometimes don't, with different voters.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>he project in short deprived the empire of vast amounts of resources while simultaneously directly resulting in the destruction of a major industrial center
Sheev would probably call that a win on that basis alone.
The issue might more be space to build ships especially if they where almost exclusively produced in a single shipyard. The production of a massive station is also not the same production infrastructure as the production of warships. Though there is overlapp.
Using the money that was used to build the deathstar to make a massive mobile shipyard is a better use of resources than a massive laser
What are the odds the the bridge deflector shield generator would be destroyed, then a kamikaze would hit right through the window on the bridge? It would be like a single fighter making it all the way through the defenses on the Death Star trench and firing a pair of proton torpedoes down a tiny exhaust shaft. Completely impossible!
What's funny is Vader warned them. He warned them that the power of that space statin was insignificant compared to the power of the force. And he was a hundred percent correct.
How do you think bares the most responsibility of the big three for fucking up the Empire? Tarkin, Palp's, or Vader?
Aside from EU lore featuring Sheev constantly torturing Vader he was also frying Luke right in front of him with force lightning. Him being killed by Vader was really him just asking for it.
Palpatine, easily.
His methods of control created vast enmity towards his rule.
At least PRETENDING to be a benevolent dictator and having a few good deeds to back that up might have gone a long way.
Insurgencies are as much a propaganda war as anything else.
Palpatine really didn’t help his case, he should have went more on his whole force antichrist thing and give the people of the galaxy more comforts along the security of the Empire to where desperate, war torn planets everywhere would fall in line without a single shot fired and become too entrenched to care about anything else. But Tarkin, that guy was just a retard whose dad hit him too much and arguably doomed the Imperial military the second a single defeat happens. As far as Vader goes he was in a weird spot where technically he was only under Palps, but in practice he was only Palps’ personal hound and even after force choking multiple people wasn’t really taken seriously by many other officers.
Were the Superdestroyers anything other than a massive waste of imperial taxpayer credits?
They made a shitton of them, but the Rebels just used a bunch of cheaper merchant ships they slapped some guns on, and cruisers meant to fight pirates.
>What was the Emperor thinking?
I mean in terms of expensive boondoggles, the Empire has done a lot worse. I mean how many Super Star Destroyers could they build instead of 1 Death Star, like a thousand? Send a thousand of those instead of a Death Star and they'll make that planet uninhabitable just fine without the critical flaw of putting all your eggs in one basket.
I love that they made that a plot point in Rebels with Thrawn.
His big wonderweapon he wanted to show off to the other Admirals was just a new type of fighter that they could actually mass produce. Cause he thinks the Death Star is stupid. Because it's one thing can be in one place at one time.
Idk.
Never really understood why the Empire were the bad guys.
>they made that a plot point in Rebels with Thrawn.
Typical nu-Star Wars "look how smart I am, I poked a plot hole in the universe" bullshit
It's horseshit like that that makes an absurdity of the original universe's rules, culminating ultimately in
https://i.imgur.com/wtDXeYi.jpg
I prefer the fuckery this fiasco caused.
The Death Star was built because it's effective according to the rules of the original Star Wars universe. Changing that means literally everyone in the Star Wars universe is a retard, in which case you can just use Looney Tunes logic and dumb everything down to children's SatAM level... which is what Rebels is, not so coincidentally
Filoni thinks like a child and writes like a child, that's why his star wars shit follows children's logic and is excellent cartoon fodder for children
Except Vader ALSO thought the Death Star was stupid and said so to Tarkin to his face. And he was completely right.
He said the ability to destroy a planet was useless besides the power of the force, and all the admirals rolled their eyes. But Luke used the force to fire a torpedo straight into the reactor and there was nothing Tarkin could do about it.
And Vader would say the same thing to Thrawn and his vaunted whateverfighter. To him the Force is the ultimate weapon. It's literally God, remember? Luke killing the Death Star is not because of multiple trench runs by a fantabulous new starfighter on a pre-sabotaged secret weakness the Rebels spent half their fleet on acquiring. It's the Force. (Which is also true, because the Force in Star Wars is like fate magic, lining up all these things in a row for Luke to knock down.)
IRL this is like arguing that the Me262 could have been the real war winner because Goering complained about the Luftwaffe being unable to stop the deHavilland Mosquito.
The main reason the DS was stupid is because the tarkin doctrine was plain retarded. Using it against the Yuuzhan Vong is one thing but even Machiavelli pointed out why such overt terror moves are foolish.
If they tried a honeypot against Alderann and tried them as terrorists hiding behind the hypocrisy of pacifism instead of blowing up the planet for no known reason it would have been more effective.
Its effectiveness was in its ability to ignore planetary-grade shields and simply vaporize the entire planet. That's nothing to sneeze at, but at the same time, it's a massive waste of resources. That planet could have been strip-mined, using the slave labor of its own population.
A far superior option would have been to build the SSD around a single superlaser. That probably would have been good enough to blow through a planetary shield, sniping the generators and clearing the way for conventional turbolaser bombardment and invasion.
Its effectiveness was in its ability to ignore planetary-grade shields and simply vaporize the entire planet. That's nothing to sneeze at, but at the same time, it's a massive waste of resources. That planet could have been strip-mined, using the slave labor of its own population.
A far superior option would have been to build the SSD around a single superlaser. That probably would have been good enough to blow through a planetary shield, sniping the generators and clearing the way for conventional turbolaser bombardment and invasion.
>single reactor ignition
It can limit its destruction.
Palps wanted TOTAL PLANETARY DEATH in order to utterly terrorise the galaxy into submission
something something, nuke analogy, I dunno
it's a good looking shot but it breaks the lore of the entire IP so it's pretty much dogshit
>MUH LORE
The Lore never matched what was on the screen. Every time a ship goes into hyperspace in any of the starwars movies, we're shown a rapid acceleration, where the stars seem to rush towards the ship, then a swirling blue tunnel which is hyperspace. The scene in Last Jedi seems to utilize that initial acceleration for a short range kamikaze attack.
The lore problem is that kamikaze'ing with hyperspace completely breaks star wars space combat. If you can do that then why bother with turbolasers? Just fire hyperspace projectiles at each other.
Previously, it was just assumed that hyperspace ramming wouldn't work for whatever reason since the characters never even suggested it.
I didn't read Dark Empire, it seemed too stupid to bother with. From what I've read on the wiki, its more like an ICBM. Using hyperspace to move the projectile through space before dropping it back into regular space when it reaches the target.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Wasn't that a fucking fake superweapon sold to the Hutts by the designer who made sure it wouldn't work? Also costing the New Republic one of the people who appeared in the OT?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
That was a bootleg death star. The Galaxy Gun was super weapon created by the empire that fired hyperspace missiles at planets to blow them up..
Also shows how retardedly OP R2-D2 because it took over a super star destroyer and rammed the galaxy gun and it fired off a missile that blew up the planet it was operating from destroying the new empire.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Oh right, that was the Darksaber. Not to be confused with the Mando glowie beat stick of command.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why did they stop producing droid armies? Cheaper and makes it so that people don't have skin in the game so they're less likely to rebel.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
1. The production companies / banks that made them were shut down.
2. The Republic is mostly Human dominated and Droids were seen as an Alien thing / threat along with Grevious (Doesn't help most of the confederacy were alien species too)
3. Clones were proven better than the Droids in warfare (To Palpatine's machinations).
4. The Republic instituted bans on android technologies and growth from the fear of the Separatists.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>makes it so that people don't have skin in the game
That's exactly what. A droid army doesn't employ millions of Imperial citizens in the same way. It doesn't make the common man a part of the Empire in the same manner. You recruit a soldier and you now align them with you. Anyone who rebels against you now must make an enemy of his fellow citizens and their friends and families.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Planets = gravity wells, gravity wells are normally bad news for shit entering and exiting hyperspace
Ships = very very small, so a projectile exiting hyperspace and hitting one is vanishingly unlikely
Design a missile whose specific purpose is to drop into a gravity well and hit a VERY LARGE target (planetary core) before exploding = Galaxy Gun
I always assumed that the impossibility of hyperspace ramming came from the distinctive paths and "roads" drawn by the hyperspace. It was kinda always implied that hyperspaces followed dedicated lines that were explored a long time ago and that you could join only by reaching specific doors. They completely reverted that logic since the sequels and nowadays any space battle makes no sense at all as they any of the opponent can just jump to hyperspace at any time.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>hyperspaces followed dedicated lines that were explored a long time ago
Theoretically you can enter Hyperspace at any point in the galaxy, but large objects cast a shadow mass into hyperspace that will tear your spacecraft into pieces. Hyperspace lines are areas cleared of any such objects that allow long distance travel without disturbance.
>all discussion on rkkv in SW
Lucas wanted it from the start. ILM in the 70-80s couldn’t do it. The rkkv has been a staple of sci fi since the golden age but opened the door most are complaining about. It DOES render space combat moot when you have a true MAD weapon available. Basically, they are not used under treaties. You are dealing with a weapon in which the smallest of debris can do this to local bodies.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
After the Empire blew up Alderaan and her entire civilian population I don't think treaties would hold much weight. Especially since the very thing used to BTFO Alderaan is a fucking giant flying ball with an actual target on the front.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>it's the Dune "lasers + shield = nuke" but "banned by treaties" cope
the problem is twofold
1. all the ingredients are common as fuck
2. "rebels" aren't bound by arms treaties
it's like saying you can make a small nuke by strapping a refrigerator magnet to a handheld laser (while showing us that both are easy as hell to buy) - it's literally not something your world's treaties can control.
a brick with a hyperdrive attached to it is now the most cost effective weapon in the setting. no amount of headcanon can fix it. it's broken the balance of in universe weaponry to the core.
all because Rian Johnson wanted to make a Star Wars movie that Star Wars fans would hate because he hated them for liking Star Wars. it's such a fucking joke.
TLJ hyperspace ramming was retarded and broke canon because it was already stablished in Legends that ships go into hyperspace lowering their mass, so the ship would have been destroyed without barely any effect to the target.
This is a classic sci-fi trope to make WW2-style pew pew space battles necessary. But Ryan Johnston is a hack that understood SW less than even JJ Abrams.
>TLJ hyperspace ramming was retarded and broke canon because it was already stablished in Legends that ships go into hyperspace lowering their mass, so the ship would have been destroyed without barely any effect to the target.
The Malevolence gets hyper-spaced straight into a moon and the resulting explosion looks just as big as Death Star's test fire.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The Malevolence gets hyper-spaced
nope, it doesn't really jump in the scene, and the moon doesn't break anyway, we only see a flash in the impact point
https://i.imgur.com/OdgSrSg.png
>Admiral Raddus, a massive object is emerging from hyperspace >Gentlealiens, it has been an honour and privilege >KAMIKAZE HYPERJUMP
>Princess, the Death Star is in firing range of Yavin >Han, I love you >I know >KAMIKAZE HYPERJUMP
>Admiral Ozzel, you emerged from hyperspace too close to the planet! >For the Rebellion! >KAMIKAZE HYPERJUMP
>Many Bothans died to bring us this information >*in Bothanese* tenno heika banzai! >KAMIKAZE HYPERJUMP
>Rian Johnson is a hack
Could've just stopped right there.
I honestly have not been able to enjoy a single one of his retarded movies.
Not even fucking Brothers Bloom.
Using the infinite mass of lightspeed objects is a hard sci-fi concept brought into a VERY soft sci-fi universe. Now that door has been opened just about every aspect of the fucking universe must be questioned.
It's the definition of a midwit move in that it uses something scientific and mistakes it for being clever.
>The Empire can't possibly be dumb because that would make the story stupid!
Why do so many loretards always bitch and complain about "children's logic" whenever a totalitarian dictatorship is depicted as dysfunctional, incompetent and prone to stupid hubristic mistakes, given that's almost always how they function in real life? I don't think Palps actually has anything matching Lysenkoism or Mao's sparrow-cide in terms of rank self-defeating idiocy.
If anything, it's unrealistic that Thrawn didn't just get murdered by some conspiracy of grifting admirals (to be blamed on the rebels, of course) when he turned out to actually be competent at his job.
>a totalitarian dictatorship is depicted as dysfunctional, incompetent and prone to stupid hubristic mistakes
More than that, anon.
If the Death Star and the Empire is so retarded, the Rebel Alliance would have no problem winning the war. That the Rebel Alliance had such difficulty winning, implies that the entire fucking galaxy is so retarded a literal cartoon villain is smarter.
This is the problem with Rebels Thrawn.
And ultimately this kind of smart-arse thinking leads to >just, yknow, hyperspace into the enemy >ugh I'm such a genius
https://i.imgur.com/Sa5QLFL.jpg
None of you posted it yet? Fine, I'll post it then.
Classic.
That's fucking retarded, if a planet is productive then it's worth staffing it with officers.
If it's not productive then it's not a threat anyway.
>if a planet is productive then it's worth staffing it with officers
It costs more to invade a hundred planets and garrison it than to build a Death Star and terrorise a hundred planets into compliance of their own accord
>That the Rebel Alliance had such difficulty winning, implies that the entire fucking galaxy is so retarded a literal cartoon villain is smarter.
This is the fatal wound in the new trilogy. If the entire galaxy has reset to Empire vs Rebels within 30 years of the Rebel victory, then the good guys are simply too retarded to make a functional government. In that case rebelling is actually an immoral action, because all you're doing is creating conflict and instability in aid of nothing, because even if you win the oppressive government will persist and return.
>If the Death Star and the Empire is so retarded, the Rebel Alliance would have no problem winning the war. That the Rebel Alliance had such difficulty winning, implies that the entire fucking galaxy is so retarded a literal cartoon villain is smarter.
The Rebel Alliance had difficulty winning because the Empire had more of everything and started off as the galaxy's political hegemon. "Guy who's stronger on paper loses due to overestimating the little guy and being arrogant" isn't a Star Wars-specific conceit, nor is it unheard of in real life.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Then the Rebel Alliance looks like an utter retard because they're all >oy vey iz mir, the Empire has A DEATH STAR!!1!
instead of, as Thrawn suggests, >lol, the idiots have built (snerk) A DEATH STAR, they're falling right into our hands
Also, turning the Empire into millions of moronic mooks for your heroes to crush with ease takes away the thrill of danger. That's exactly the problem with nu-Star Wars, nu-MCU, nu-Ghostbusters, and everything wokeshit; there's no gravitas, you're never worried, everything will be okay, because the heroes are wisecracking every line. Nobody will die. It's a Saturday morning cartoon, kids!
What the FUCK does a Death Star do about crime and thievery?
If you govern a planet and have it be part of the Empire, then you MUST be setting aside some of its productive output toward a police and government structure, and if you're doing that then you're already hunting rebels and subversives because they are BY DEFINITION criminals.
>What the FUCK does a Death Star do about crime and thievery?
Terrorise people into compliance. >you MUST be setting aside some of its productive output toward a police and government structure
The police and governor you elected aren't afraid of you, so they're secretly helping the Rebels. How now brown bantha?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Terrorise small scale criminals and corrupt officials using your planet scale superweapon
You're a dumb moron >The police and governor you elected aren't afraid of you
The problem is incompetence with the security forces then. Good thing you're here to bring some competent and well-thought out ideas.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The problem is incompetence with the security forces >My trusted planetary governors could never be the problem
You have zero clue about managing even a small organistion, let alone understanding how insurgencies work, and it shows.
https://i.imgur.com/gJlQvjW.jpg
Kek
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
See this is why (or rather one reason among many why) the EU's warlords era is the superior post-Palps scenario. The greatest downfall of the Empire after the death of the emperor becomes all the Moffs and admirals figuring they're the new boss and spending as many resources fighting each other as they do the rebellion, who have now just become one faction among many in the battle royale to see who gets to rule the galaxy.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The death star couldn't be easily taken out, it took literal space magic to do. If Luke had been delayed for a second the rebel base on Yavin would have been blown up and any hope of a successful rebellion would have been knocked back at least another 30 years if not completely hopeless after that. This was AFTER the empire had blown up one of the rebel alliance's major benefactors. The death star was a huge fucking deal and made dealing major blows to the rebellion extremely easy. Imagine the battle of Hoth just started with the death star appearing in orbit and blowing it the fuck up. It would have also made even sympathetic governors and populations even more hesitant about willingly housing rebels and getting a planetary destruction target put on their back. Hell, local populations hunting down rebs with pitchforks and torches out of fear of being blown up with them starts being likely.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Absolutely agreed.
Thus, from a narrative standpoint, either the Death Star is an actual serious ohshitwe'refucked threat, and Thrawn is just proposing an alternative that may or may not work... or the Imperials, the Rebels, the entire fucking galaxy are all utter mongs, and Thrawn is the real threat all along.
Filoni, being worse than Abrams, would of course love it to be the latter.
https://i.imgur.com/S2igwKl.jpg
I just had an internet debate with a friend on discord about the Death Star a few nights ago. His opinion was pretty much "if the Death Star was real, all rebels would just surrender because they have no answer to it" whereas I was of the opinion that the Death Star
-did nothing to solve any of the Empire's actual problems relating to governance
-was itself the product of militarism that was completely economically unsustainable
-the very fact that the Death Star was built at all is proof that Palpatine's grip on power was slipping even before the events of the main trilogy.
How much weed did you and your friend toke? Be honest.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I will forever hate nu-star wars for making order 66 be enforced by "brain chips". It took one of the more interesting aspects of the prequels, and hand waves it with "they was good boys they din mean it"
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yup
Filoni once again replacing Star Wars with his vapid dumbed-down Saturday morning kids' cartoon version
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yup
Filoni once again replacing Star Wars with his vapid dumbed-down Saturday morning kids' cartoon version
I think that's just sorta the cost of humanizing the clones as much as they did. Given the relationships some of them developed there's no way they would've gone through with it without some kind of sleeper agent type programming.
The number of ships there makes no fucking sense.
Like where is the industry to produce all that.
There's got to be a massive industrial complex on that cultist rock producing Kyber crystals. So now there's a planets sized shipyard in bumfuck nowhere that's temporarily unoccupied
The numbers in Star Wars never made any sense.
I betcha if the audience hadn't turned against the movie by then nobody would have given a fuck. Nerds would have just made up fan-canon on the spot justifying it.
But every preceding problem makes the next one stick out more.
idk I thought it was fine, TROS was forgettable garbage though
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I think that's just sorta the cost of humanizing the clones as much as they did.
They had chances to just drive a rift between the clones and the Jedi, the Pong Krell thing could have just been the start of showing how the Jedi misused their troops and threw them into the meatgrinder. The show was already making a point of the flaws within the Jedi Order with that whole arc where Ahsoka was on the run for shit she didn't do and none of them stood up for her.
If I were the writer, I'd have more shit like the Umbara campaign, except instead of the whole "oh he fell to the dark side" crap, it's just the Jedi becoming increasingly harsh and uncaring about the lives of their soldiers, either not understanding basic strategy and overruling sensible orders from clone commanders to do some retarded shit that only makes sense to them or just not seeing clones as real people but bio-droids they can sacrifice on the altar of victory. Either way, win or lose, they'd never face the consequences for failure because of bullshit space magic that only they have. You'd see increasing unrest among clones, all the while Palpatine makes himself seem like he really gives a crap about them, perhaps passing laws relating to clones like VA benefits, something that would make the clones more sympathetic and loyal to Palpatine than to the Jedi or the founding ideals of the Republic (Senate). You kinda already see the latter taking shape, the argument in the Senate about the clones is solely about them as a resource, whether they should order another batch from Kamino or not and more or less seeing them only as war machines, or just an enslaved army at best.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Thrawn's entire shtick has been the "pragmatic" Imperial commander, like how Pellaeon is the "loyal and efficient" Imperial commander and Daala is the "incompetent but the narrative treats as genius" Imperial commander. And nothing prevents the Death Star from being a genuine threat AND a pointless boondoggle tying up resources that could be better spent elsewhere.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Lmao Daala >Waaaaa men don't respect me, I should be judged on my merits! >Literally exist as Tarkins cum dumpster >Given command of fleet protecting the Maw, thus proving every detractor right >Fuck that up, in the process learn your daddy died >get mad, lose your entire command >stay mad, kill warlords, take their SSD and fleets to sperg out on the Jedi >fail, this time your SSD crashes in to Yavin and the rest of your command gets yeeted in to space by an autistic clone >later somehow become GA Chief of Staff >sperg out on Jedi (again), fail to retain power (twice)
The character exists purely to show why women shouldn't be Admirals
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>later somehow become GA Chief of Staff
I don't remember how the fuck that happened. Was is part of some Jedi fuckup that let Daala run for election on a platform of "FUCK JEDI REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's literally never explained. Everyone's all together after Jacen dies and someone (I think Han) just says "holy shit look at the TV", and it's some HoloNews showing Daala appointed Chief of State
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
She was retarded enough to attempt an attack on Coruscant with like four beat-up ISDs and a prayer.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The death star couldn't be easily taken out, it took literal space magic to do.
Not to mention the main construction engineer designing a flaw into the thing.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
people into compliance.
America has enough nooks to vaporize each and every one of its cities. Why do people still commit petty theft? Aren't they afraid?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
They didn't glassed some country as example yet.
And they are not the only player with nooks
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because we live in a democracy, not a totalitarian regime, dipshit.
Well, I don't know about you; maybe you're from Iran, or China, where they do in fact point copious amounts of guns at their own people.
What the FUCK does a Death Star do about crime and thievery?
If you govern a planet and have it be part of the Empire, then you MUST be setting aside some of its productive output toward a police and government structure, and if you're doing that then you're already hunting rebels and subversives because they are BY DEFINITION criminals.
>Changing that means literally everyone in the Star Wars universe is a retard
Uh...yes? Do you have any idea how many universes are like this? Star Wars isn't alone. Battletech, Warhammer, they all do this.
*Whoosh* was the sound of the point going over your head. None of those universes are hard sci-fi. They don't try to be hard sci-fi. They define some rules about how things work within their fictional setting for the purpose of telling a story, and then they stick to those rules. They don't re-write the rules after the fact in a way that makes every single party within the setting a retard retroactively.
Just because many companies do it doesn't mean it's right
Ep. VII finally broke me from SW nerd debating. Stardestroyer, Space Battles, you know those forums. What did it was the scene of the space bombers dropping gravity bombs on another spaceship. "T-the writers a-and directors too…it’s a ww2 story to them…?" How could a nerd POSSIBLY debate this? Gravity bombing space combat is canon now, it’s utterly untenable. You simply can’t continue.
>VII finally broke me from SW nerd debating
Same, but because simps were running around saying "if you don't like Holdo and Ep 7 YOU'RE A MISOGYNIST!!"
To be fair, a fully completed Death Star II would have solo'd everything since the one glaring weakpoint was fixed and odds are the shields would tank even the light speed bullshit attack.
It would take something with even more bullshit power like the sun crusher beat it
>Send a thousand of those instead of a Death Star and they'll make that planet uninhabitable just fine
you only need like, 11 regular ISD's to base delta zero a planet over the course of a month. You wipe out the surface to making any habitation HELL for survivors, which is way more fucking metal, and you save resources within the inner crust of the planet that could actually be used. Hell, the empire actually KNOWS how to make cyclonic torpedo shit ala 40k.
It takes a month to base delta zero an unshielded planet. A shielded planet could withstand bombardment indefinetly if its generators are strong enough.
That's where tarkins idiocy comes into play. If a planet is properly shielded or has strategic value that outweighs BDZ, you have a competent and well trained elite cardre of soldiers for ground assault duties. The Stormtrooper corps flip flops way too much between being genuinely competent soldiers and bumbling idiots so you just take that whole thing down and reform it completely. Make a whole new branch within the navy for naval security and them make a force of troopers whos ONLY PURPOSE, not 'oh they can also garrison stuff, make their entire reason for existing to assault planets and stations that present significant resistance but cannot be obliterated by orbital bombardment. There's so much shit in the empire that just shouldn't work period but somehow holds itself together just enough to not crumble apart.
>Kuat wants more money >Governors want bigger ships to show their status
The ships themselves are stupid memes, but the logic behind building them is sound. Bribe Kuat with lucrative contracts to keep them happy, then bribe gocernors with dreadnoughts to keep them happy.
>Make people across the galaxy scared of your big scary impractical weapons >Feed on the negative emotions >Something Something Dark Side something something Sith Sorcery >Become immortal force god >Still get eaten by the end-boss of Star Wars Legends because it got really retarded at the end
To be fair ASW fucking sucked in that universe for Osea to have a hard time detecting that fat noisy fuck for weeks. And when they finally cornered it, the Alicorn had 100 planes inside its hangars, railgun AA guns, CIWS, more VLS than an entire American carrier battle group as well as FUCKING FORCE FIELDS. It worked in universe and held the world hostage by the balls with SALVATION had it not for 3 strikes the boogeyman of Erusea
To be fair ASW fucking sucked in that universe for Osea to have a hard time detecting that fat noisy fuck for weeks. And when they finally cornered it, the Alicorn had 100 planes inside its hangars, railgun AA guns, CIWS, more VLS than an entire American carrier battle group as well as FUCKING FORCE FIELDS. It worked in universe and held the world hostage by the balls with SALVATION had it not for 3 strikes the boogeyman of Erusea
Erusea's entire strategy in 7 was relying on foreign wunderwaffes to win a war that they didn't even need to start. The only homegrown threat in 7 was Memehigh and his plot armor.
Most of his on-screen feats that aren't 'not instantly dying after first contact with Three Strikes' basically amount to using his far superior aircraft to bully women and minorities.
If you still subscribe to Legends, he did. That's why when he died, the whole fleet at Endor got disorganized and started retreating/ breaking off to fuck around and become warlords elsewhere. In canon? Dude just gave zero fucks and just wanted everyone to suffer and live forever.
You'd have a point.
Except Vader ALSO thought the Death Star was stupid and said so to Tarkin to his face. And he was completely right.
He said the ability to destroy a planet was useless besides the power of the force, and all the admirals rolled their eyes. But Luke used the force to fire a torpedo straight into the reactor and there was nothing Tarkin could do about it.
Doesn't help that either Vader or Tarkin just sent out like around 3 squadrons to deal with the fighters coming in.
>Doesn't help that either Vader or Tarkin just sent out like around 3 squadrons to deal with the fighters coming in.
NTA but I'm willing to chock that up to stylistic choices and VFX limitations. I'm sure Lucas would've loved to have a scene with hundreds of ships flying around like it was the Battle of Britain, but it'd be hard to follow the action, not to mention the amount of work it'd be to manually comp all that together.
Oh sure, irl it's both fine and makes sense. It's in universe is when you have to question on why. Also you have to wonder on how much of an assreaming Vader got after the Death Star blew up when he got picked up afterwards.
Vader wasn't in charge of the Death Star. And I don't think he made any real calls. It wasn't his job to.
He literally almost had Luke too, if not for Han's out of nowhere arrival, and I think Vader would go 'No, he LITERALLY came out of nowhere, some random cowboy in a freighter blasted me out of whack'.
I think everything can and should be placed squarely on Tarkin's shoulders. It was hubris and an unwillingness to treat his enemies as equal.
Dude was genuinely the last man alive from the Death Star. Even if blame is gonna fall on Tarkin, the fact he's the only one left is gonna lead to questions and the Empire hasn't shown itself to be particularly forgiving to it's own people. Mind, given it is Vader, he'd still just shrug off most of the blame from that. Still find it hilarious though that more than 30 plus years and near countless amount of Credits and resources spent on it, and it gets blown up once it's ready after about a month of use. Tarkin would have been fucked over spectacularly if he had somehow survived it by a very pissed off Sheev.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
He probably would have gotten the most brutal public execution Palp's could have thought of.
Palpatine basically accomplished everything he'd ever dreamed of, immediately got bored and decided to spend all his new free time fucking with Vader.
Given that Palp's real personality is just that of a giant troll (you can tell cause when he gets into fights he just abandons all pretense of the carefully created mask he makes and just starts cackling as evil-y as he can cause he's just having the time of his life), I do feel that he had way more fun tricking the Jedi and orchestrating the clone wars and all the fuckery he did there than he did actually ruling the Empire.
His skill set is political manipulation, and he was able to use it masterfully while engineering his rise to power. Once in power, sure there were some boxes left to tick off, but it's not really the same thing.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The only thing better than Robot Chicken's version of Palpatine is elements of that characterization filtering back into regular Star Wars.
Dude was genuinely the last man alive from the Death Star. Even if blame is gonna fall on Tarkin, the fact he's the only one left is gonna lead to questions and the Empire hasn't shown itself to be particularly forgiving to it's own people. Mind, given it is Vader, he'd still just shrug off most of the blame from that. Still find it hilarious though that more than 30 plus years and near countless amount of Credits and resources spent on it, and it gets blown up once it's ready after about a month of use. Tarkin would have been fucked over spectacularly if he had somehow survived it by a very pissed off Sheev.
Palpatine and Vader's relationship is already pretty much picrel, probably just added another 30 minutes to their sessions for a few months as punishment.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Palpatine basically accomplished everything he'd ever dreamed of, immediately got bored and decided to spend all his new free time fucking with Vader.
The Super ISD was a POS because a multicultural zoomer YouTube consumer content provider says it is. That’s literally the entirety of the argument. The fact that the Rebel navy was utterly out-fought is irrelevant because the zoomer YouTube channel doesn’t mention it. That’s the reality of how fucked up online culture is.
Palpatine wouldn’t have blamed Tarkin because Tarkin was fully aligned with Palp’s desires. He knew that the result of the DS1 debacle was the Light Side doing a slap-back and he thought turning Luke would cement his ultimate victory. If anything he’d blame Vader for being there and being too weak to resist it. To Palpatine the war was just the Force playing out a drama he was the director of; the normies were just actors and NPCs.
>hurrr durr we're out of rockets what is a lazer?
In hindsight, why didn't they just run him over?
Those things are gunships that were so well designed that they BTFO air superiority fighters on Geonosis.
He was an adherent to a fanatical religious cult whose entire philosophy can essentially be be boiled to do "unrestrained narcissism and megalomania = GOOD, moderation and humility = BAD". His regime was itself built on a mountain of lies upon lies to justify the most outrageous tyranny and economically unsustainable militarism. Palpatine's leadership style engendered a culture of paranoia, lying to save your own ass (or throat) and constant backstabbing among the lower ranks. Vader's even more so.
Much like like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union that served as the primary inspirations for it (at least in the Prequels), the Galactic Empire was a dysfunctional, internally unstable, shithole that was doomed to violently self-destruct the moment that Palpatine croaked.
Same sort of jackasses that think SSDs are worthless act like that thing would be impossible. If they can build DS1 and DS2 the size of it wouldn't be an issue at all.
Beyond that it's got some incredible potential uses. It does Death Star stuff without being a giant ball and can actively carry it's own support fleet. If I'm remembering the original designer's story right it was also explicitly designed with trans-galactic travel in mind. This thing was primarily supposed to travel to a neighboring galaxy with enough men and firepower for there to immediately be a considerable Imperial presence expanding the Empire beyond being most of a single galaxy.
>expanding the Empire beyond being most of a single galaxy
damn
what's that on the Kardashev scale? >can actively carry it's own support fleet
I think the Death Star can fit a Star Destroyer or five
Still not even K2 since we've never seen a dyson sphere or swarm in canon Star Wars. The setting is fantasy. Don't bring any science within a mile of it or you will catch aids.
Personally I'd put them at least a type II which definitely isn't a KS tier that is new to the galaxy. The Death Star wasn't really meant to be carrying an actual fleet. Couldn't go anywhere an escort fleet couldn't and would never really be out of easy supply range. Don't really need to carry a fleet if ships can regularly and quickly rotate in and out for escort duty under their own power.
Nobody truly understands how hyperspace works in the Star Wars universe. I would imagine being able to guide an unmanned vehicle in it would be nearly impossible. It’s also stated later that it was a pretty low odds kind of maneuver. She was just taking a swing and hoping she made contact.
Could swear a lot of shipping is unmanned and automated. The CIS was also mostly "unmanned". If a B-1 can do it just about any droid brain can. They shit on old lore with that. There's at least one occasion of hyperspace ramming being tried, funny enough against an SSD. It didn't work.
Maybe the Empire should explore the unknown regions before it opens up a whole new galaxy. They don't even control half the galaxy.
Honestly it might be easier to go to the neighboring galaxy. The unknown regions are so hard to explore because hyperspace gets fucky. Imagine EVERYWHERE being equivalent to the pre-Disney Kessel run in difficulty. Even spamming automated probes which has been done for at least 20k years. Trying to find safe hyperspace routes through is a bitch.
Still not even K2 since we've never seen a dyson sphere or swarm in canon Star Wars. The setting is fantasy. Don't bring any science within a mile of it or you will catch aids.
The reactor in an ISD is capable of putting out more energy than a star. The Rakata "Infinite Empire" was K2 tens of thousands of years before the Empire existed with their Star Forge. Type 2 isn't remotely new to the galaxy. Type two doesn't require dyson spheres, it requires harvesting energy directly from a star which is basically unnecessary by the time of the Empire. Directly harvesting mass to make things like giant fleets and armies (like the Star Forge did) is lost technology.
>The unknown regions are so hard to explore because hyperspace gets fucky. Imagine EVERYWHERE being equivalent to the pre-Disney Kessel run in difficulty. Even spamming automated probes which has been done for at least 20k years. Trying to find safe hyperspace routes through is a bitch.
Or another civ that is equal or greater than.
The Chiss Ascendancy is there but it's just the nature of the area not some super secret other empire doing shit to a huge chunk of the galaxy. The Chiss at least have a leg up because they live in that shitshow and had to figure it out early. In a fight without the hyperspace crap the Empire would shitstomp the Chiss.
I just had an internet debate with a friend on discord about the Death Star a few nights ago. His opinion was pretty much "if the Death Star was real, all rebels would just surrender because they have no answer to it" whereas I was of the opinion that the Death Star
-did nothing to solve any of the Empire's actual problems relating to governance
-was itself the product of militarism that was completely economically unsustainable
-the very fact that the Death Star was built at all is proof that Palpatine's grip on power was slipping even before the events of the main trilogy.
I mean, the Death Star was already started by the CIS beforehand. Papa Palps just kept it chugging along because he thought it was neat. Ultimately the design came from the Geonosians, so you can blame them for that.
Guess I forgot that part from Attack of the Clones. Still, the CIS conceptualized it when they were anticipating a total war for galactic domination against the larger Old Republic, where a wunderwaffe like the Death Star both makes sense and could potentially make the difference between victory and total annihilation. It wouldn't make sense to build it AFTER your side has already won and ruled the galaxy undisputed though. That is unless your stranglehold over the galaxy was already starting to slip...
Absolutely agreed.
Thus, from a narrative standpoint, either the Death Star is an actual serious ohshitwe'refucked threat, and Thrawn is just proposing an alternative that may or may not work... or the Imperials, the Rebels, the entire fucking galaxy are all utter mongs, and Thrawn is the real threat all along.
Filoni, being worse than Abrams, would of course love it to be the latter.
[...]
How much weed did you and your friend toke? Be honest.
>How much weed did you and your friend toke? Be honest.
At the end of RotS Vader stands on a bridge looking at the skeleton of the Death Star being built. The Clone Wars weren't even finished before they started building the fucking thing.
I mean, the Death Star was already started by the CIS beforehand. Papa Palps just kept it chugging along because he thought it was neat. Ultimately the design came from the Geonosians, so you can blame them for that.
I wonder why FTL kamikaze drones aren't a thing in Star wars.
Just take the smallest commercially available FTL engine and strap some space age AI core to it.
This stunt proves that space ships are obsolete in Star wars.
Since you'd need to bend space time to make jumps, a sensor for changes in gravitation could serve as warning system.
The future of Star Wars fleet combat is hyperspace suicide droid swarms trying to find and stop mid-sized Cruisers armed exclusively with super lasers from getting into range of their planets.
Because that's not how hyperspace works. If it did, the OT would have just been Dr. Strangelove with hyperspace kill vehicles instead of nukes. Disney are retards who don't understand how Star Wars works.
It took a three kilometre long ship with unusually powerful shields to do anything to the Supremacy, and it didn't even destroy it outright. Anything smaller would just bounce off.
>find asteroid >slap engines on it >now you have to slap a power plant on it to power the engines >now you need shields to prevent it from being torn up by anything in its path as it reaches relativistic speeds >now you need sensors so it can accurately track moving targets >now you need to ensure it has enough structural integrity and shielding to not immediately eat shit when it hits an interdiction field >and since it is in realspace the whole time you're going to need to protect it from preemptive attacks
So with just a supply of sufficently dense and sizeable asteroids and the ability to construct about 40% of Star Destroyer, you too can have a single use weapon that failed to sufficiently cripple a large space station, assuming they even reach their target given all the things that can stop them.
So with just a supply of sufficently dense and sizeable asteroids and the ability to construct about 40% of Star Destroyer,
So I can take out an SD for something that's only 40% the cost? That's a bargain.
Either the kamikaze was dumb which means the holdo is just a sucidal idiot that did nothing beyond kill her self or it's effective in which case everyone should have been doing it all ready.
First you have to be able to build 40% of SD consistently and have a supply of suitable asteroids. Large-scale industrial production is rather centralized in SW, with only a few planets and consortiums capable of mass manufacture of larger starships. On top of that your hyperspace rams are specific purpose weapons, they lack any sort of flexibility in tactical or strategic use. They'd be functionally closer to ICBMs than anything. Sure, I can get two SD killer weapons for the price of one SD, but I don't get the benefits of a mobile forward operating base, expeditionary force, or planetary garrison from a rock and 40% of a SD. The Galactic Empire, with all its bloated MIC, was only able to field 25,000 SD, so that means you only need enough industrial capacity to build 25,000 partially completed SDs to take them all out.
>To increase the production any further they would need to recreate the industrial infrastructure of KDY somewhere else.
Do you think the Death Star required no industrial infrastructure to build? The parts for it were just produced nowhere? What you are seeing in picrel is just final assembly, all that had to be built somewhere. The off screen industrial infrastructure that fabricated the individual parts for that monster is clearly far past whatever section of KDY was dedicated to Imperial Star Destroyer production.
The industrial infrastructure isn't really compatible. The death star used dedicated industry and to a large degree bespoke parts.
Yes the metal could be used for ISDs but many other components of the station wouldn't be compatible. It didn't use dock space, it didn't use the same engines and it didn't utilise the same competence in its construction.
Massive amounts of resources we're dedicated to the project but those resources couldn't translate 1 to 1 in resources invested into ISDs.
You would have to massively expand the industrial complex dedicated to ISD production and manning.
NTA but building a one-off like the DS is more like constructing a building than mass producing multiple warships off the same plans
As this guy said the DS is a massive infrastructure project and not a gigantic naval procurement effort. They hired civil engineers and not naval architects to make the power system ffs.
>this entire thread >not knowing the entire Imperial MIC was just gearing up for the Vong
Fucking lorelets I swear. >Disney
Fuck Disney, everything their IP isn't canon.
bro, I read some of the books when they came out. The fact they needed to kick off the Vong with killing Chewie by dropping a literal moon on him should tell you all you need to know about the series. The good Star Wars books were things like the X-Wing/Rogue Squadron series, not galactic level powerwank with a completely new OC faction but exploring what the servicemen of the Rebellion and later New Republic faced in the remnants of the Empire.
>I want to write about edgy BDSM fetishist OCs >should I make my own universe? >or should I just slam it into Star Wars like some bad fan fiction despite them never being so much as thought of in the preceding half a century of media?
The irony of you complaining about Disney raping the lore is palatable.
>killing characters is bad >new things is bad
Child, hush.
Killing Chewbacca was supposed to signify that no character was safe, IIRC more OT characters were supposed to die so the NJO ones could fill their place. Unfortunately, the pushback to Chewie going was so extreme they just gave every OT character retarded levels of plot armor and kept NJO kiddies sidelined, which led to the utter retardation that was the Dark Nest and Legacy serieses.
I cringed a lot reading Dark Nest, but I'd read it and more like it a dozen times over if I could get a timeline where the Mouse never made their sequels. The EU had a lot of fucking pants on head moments, I'm looking at you Luke clones, but I don't think any of them were that bad compared to what Disney has done.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I largely enjoyed the EU, minus the one off bits like LUUUKE. I really feel chucking the original NJO idea of knocking off characters wrote themselves in to a corner.
Galaxy wide war that killed trillions....you don't really top that. So they tried with the Dark Nest, but that wasn't super popular so they reverted to rehashed GW2 with Jacen being an angry tard like his grandpa, then space Devil? Whatever the fuck Abeloth was.
I wish I could find it, but I read an interview with Stackpole, Allston, and a couple other NJO authors. Basically, the backlash from Chewie caused a replan of everything after Rebirth. IIRC Jacen was originally going to die in Star by Star, Han bites it at some point, a lot of older characters die with Anakin taking over to lead everyone to victory and eventually succeed Luke. Following NJO is it was supposed to go back to single novels/duologies, one bit was Anakin and Tahiri exploring the Unknown Regions (which was adapted to Survivors Quest), and something with Jaina and Jagggggg.
I'll still reread the entire EU at least once a year though.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's been years since I read any of the EU books and I'm still kind of mad that I'm not going to get to read Sword of the Jedi. I also kind of wanted to see what the fallout would be between Ben and his Sith GF.
The Vong were almost as bad as Disney. >le edgy painworshipers who are immune to the Force
>this entire thread >not knowing the entire Imperial MIC was just gearing up for the Vong
Fucking lorelets I swear. >Disney
Fuck Disney, everything their IP isn't canon.
bro, I read some of the books when they came out. The fact they needed to kick off the Vong with killing Chewie by dropping a literal moon on him should tell you all you need to know about the series. The good Star Wars books were things like the X-Wing/Rogue Squadron series, not galactic level powerwank with a completely new OC faction but exploring what the servicemen of the Rebellion and later New Republic faced in the remnants of the Empire.
The Vong were the worst shit in the EU by far, nothing in Disney Wars has ever come close to how awful NJO was and anybody who says otherwise is either deluding themselves or being a contrarian out of butthurt for disney shitcanning the EU
The "premise of all previous space warfare in the setting" is just bullshit people reverse engineered to try to justify ww2 planes in space. People only hem and haw about lightspeed ramming because they didn't like the movie. If they liked the movie then they'd just make up some convoluted fake science bullshit to justify it like with the kessel run.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Nta, I didn't like the movie because of that scene, it was so obviously jumping the shark.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It was just a shit fucking scene in pretty much every single aspect except for perhaps the quality of the CGI. Even if we just ignore the implications of opening the FTL kill vehicle can of worms, the scene boils down to: >here's this good for nothing cunt of an "admiral" who has done everything wrong this entire film >pure political position. Basically the worst possible commanding officer in any multiverse >but we should celebrate her because of this one asspull. >most of her faction is still dead
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Don't forget the smug "I know better than you, stop trying to help defeat our enemies, just do nothing and trust me" lead up for 30 minutes beforehand.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Also the bullshit "you should be thankful that we don't courtmartial you for succeeding in your impossible mission instead of succeeding with zero casualties" bullshit.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Don't forget the smug "I know better than you, stop trying to help defeat our enemies, just do nothing and trust me" lead up for 30 minutes beforehand.
It was just a shit fucking scene in pretty much every single aspect except for perhaps the quality of the CGI. Even if we just ignore the implications of opening the FTL kill vehicle can of worms, the scene boils down to: >here's this good for nothing cunt of an "admiral" who has done everything wrong this entire film >pure political position. Basically the worst possible commanding officer in any multiverse >but we should celebrate her because of this one asspull. >most of her faction is still dead
Someone pointed out that the bullshit in TLJ and the sequels in general is the result of these films being made by people who have zero familiarity with or knowledge of the military past the shallowest things.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
If that's the one scene that soured the whole thing for you, I guess I don't have a retort. I do have to wonder how you can tolerate any of the space battles in star wars though if that's a bridge too far.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because most space battles bend the existing verisimilitude, not shatter into pieces.
The movie isn't great otherwise, but the whole scene reeks of Mary Sue meets "over 9000"
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
How many fucking times do people have to explain to you that the space battles in star wars were intended to be "WWII naval battles IN SPACE" and that the capabilities of the warships were deliberately kept restricted in manners that contrived to force them into "WWII naval battles" in space, and that the reason why introducing relativistic kill vehicles into the setting via a simple hyperdrive is dumb is because it completely undermines the ENTIRE FUCKING PREMISE OF WWII NAVAL BATTLES IN SPACE?!?!
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
All you're saying is that instead of the schlock you like, you got schlock you didn't like. Both are cases of reality subsuming itself to the whims of the narrative and both cause logical inconsistencies. You're just more willing to forgive and imagine justifications for one than the other.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not him but yes
I walk into a Star Trek movie expecting Star Trek logic
I read a Harry Potter book expecting Harry Potter logic
I watch Saving Private Ryan expecting Saving Private Ryan logic
I watch Strike Witches expecting Strike Witches logic
I DO NOT WANT TO WALK INTO A STAR WARS MOVIE AND BE SERVED POWERPUFF GIRLS LOGIC
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
But Star Wars logic is just "Anything is possible so long as the plot demands it". I don't think the lightspeed ram was good, but it's not for some scientific or or consistency reason. That's not how Star Wars works and it's annoying when people try to use that angle. It's bad because the admiral was a just some random woman who showed up out of nowhere, was a bitch, got everyone killed, and was barely a character. Giving her the big heroic moment makes no sense emotionally, and that's why that scene sucked.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Anything is possible so long as the plot demands it
Nope
That's not at all how the original was, there was an implicit, deduceable set of rules, even if they weren't explicitly laid out
That's why you get people falling over themselves on Spacebattles trying to explain Star Trek and Star Wars shit - because they are consistent >consistency
This is everything
You've heard of "plot holes" obviously. Holes in what? If everything happens "just because", there's no fabric for there to be holes in. Just BECAUSE, dude.
Answer is: yes, there is in fact a required consistency in every plot, even if it's fiction
This is one of the foundational pillars of fiction: you have to have a set of rules in your universe, and you have to get the viewer to accept it
We all know Saving Private Ryan is ridiculous and reality didn't work that way
Captain Tom Hanks and his band of misfits didn't mow down a battalion of panzergrenadiers saving one rando
But we accept the Hollywood WW2 illusion, because we are >willing to forgive and imagine justifications for
This particular setting
We accept this particular reality and this particular logical inconsistency
What we cannot, deep in our hearts, accept is SUDDENLY AN X-WING APPEARED AND RICK AND MORTY FUCKING ZAPPED THAT TIGER TANK BEFORE IT COULD KILL RYAN AND CAPTAIN HANKS
That shit flies in another setting: Rick and Morty, Robot Chicken, or that Peter Stewie horseshit cartoon I can't remember the name of.
It does NOT fly in Star Wars.
And not just the Holdo Manoeuvre, but tons of bullshit in the Sequels breaks that narrative
Most people can't explain it other than "eww that sucked" or "meh I can't get into it". Writers can.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>It's bad because the admiral was a just some random woman who showed up out of nowhere, was a bitch, got everyone killed, and was barely a character. Giving her the big heroic moment makes no sense emotionally, and that's why that scene sucked.
P.s. this also
You're describing inconsistency in character building.
Holdo was a bitch for so long of the movie and behaved so far out of the norm even for a boss hiding a secret plan up her ass, that audiences refused to accept her "reveal"
They had bought too much into hating her already
This is a big problem many authors have faced with other media e.g. Maze Runner, Harry Potter
(We don't have the same problem with Darth Vader because he's not SECRETLY GOOD ALL ALONG, he is a genuine villain who turned. There's a big difference.)
However you're focusing on CHARACTER consistency. There's also setting consistency and plot consistency, and that's what other people here are focusing on because it's the stupidest and most egregious of all, ie the Holdo Ram.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Lightspeed ram bad >Navy good even though they don't have any competition besides criminal thugs and people printing out leaflets with mean things on them
IIRC, Dovin basals were countered by lots of small rocks from star wars style ultra-dense asteroid fields because activating the dovin basal for usage as a shield to black hole incoming fire would attract rocks which would require activating the basal to black hole the rocks to protect you from the rocks, which would in turn attract more rocks. Repeat until the basal gets tired, fucks up, and gets smashed by rocks.
A shame that the protagonists were too dumb to start adopting flak weapons.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
They had already adapted fighter and capital ship weapons to defeat them by like the 3rd book, so pretty fucking quick.
The New Republic got it's shit pushed in 100% due to infighting, and repeatedly being incapable to follow up on victories or opportunities >Borsk the Bothan, previously discredited retard and current Chief of State, denies the Vongs existence and accuses Leia of just trying to take back power and does so until the Vong make it Mid Rim and Ithor burns >STILL refuses to really address the threat, instead just throws task forces here and there >Empire of the Hand show up to offer assistance, throws a fucking temper tantrum because Jagged Fel didn't immediately suck his dick >Jedi and NRI repeatedly warn of incursions and are ignored, accused of trying to gain power/"muh human supremacists" >Meanwhile, non human governments like Duro repeatedly betray and backstab the New Republic (honorary mention to the Peace Brigade gays) >Vong come aknockin at Coruscant's door, STILL can't agree on a unified approach and have multiple fleets under Bel Iblis, Wedge, and someone else doing whatever the fuck >Planetary defenses do fuck all because the Vong use refugee ships as shields, and Bel Iblis is the only one with the balls to open fire anyway
It isn't until Borsk an heroes with a nuke, and most of the Senate is wiped out, that the Galactic Alliance (formally New Republic) starts making consistent gains. Coincidentally, most of the (non human) Senate going bye allows the (mostly human) military command to do their jobs proper.
Unironically the Empire would have faired way better because first and foremost they would have presented a unified, strategic response.
I dislike the Vong just like I dislike Jar-Jar. But in light of how the Mouse has handled the setting, the Vong and Jar-Jar look like classic masterpiece inclusions of the setting.
>This bro thinking that Palps even cared about that shit
That shit was just postulated by some random Imp Remnant officer during the Vong War and he got refuted by Han, remember this is the same guy who had made a fuckton of superweapons that he just left out in the open, like the fucking Eye of Palpatine.
We're all fully aware of the Vong and rightfully choose to ignore it. The Vong are fucking gay and the notion that Palpatine was totally just a necessary evil you guyz is even more gay.
The First Order should have been a nomadic army with no worlds that raids the new republic for resources and manpower. Also their new quality>quantity philosophy was kinda interesting.
It's just such a shame they were turned into brain-dead retards and none of these concepts were ever explored
The First Order should have been a nomadic army with no worlds that raids the new republic for resources and manpower. Also their new quality>quantity philosophy was kinda interesting.
It's just such a shame they were turned into brain-dead retards and none of these concepts were ever explored
it was probably made by the one white dude who liked Star Wars before he got purged
>What is the color of prototype SD's?
Titanium White >What wing got cut through by Admiral Old Ho?
The right wing >How many SD's where destroyed in the wake?
14 >You got to be fucking kidding me?
And they were part of the 88th battle group.
>Clone Wars
VGH prbly the last time galaxy experienced kino of warfare and weapon/ship innovation, now everything is just gay triangles >Inb4 mon calamari ships
Nebula mass replacement soon
They could have built 1000+ star destroyers, but they built this piece of shit instead? This is where my tax dollars are going? I heard from a buddy that the whole thing was destroyed by one torpedo from some Dantooine kid as well, what a piece of shit.
Ep. VII finally broke me from SW nerd debating. Stardestroyer, Space Battles, you know those forums. What did it was the scene of the space bombers dropping gravity bombs on another spaceship. "T-the writers a-and directors too…it’s a ww2 story to them…?" How could a nerd POSSIBLY debate this? Gravity bombing space combat is canon now, it’s utterly untenable. You simply can’t continue.
The grav field (the same field that makes it so you can walk normally on a ship as if you were on a planet) draws the bombs towards the ships. The bombers reverse said grav field in the bomb bay to push the bombs out.
(idk its just an interesting lore problem i guess)
The grav field (the same field that makes it so you can walk normally on a ship as if you were on a planet) draws the bombs towards the ships. The bombers reverse said grav field in the bomb bay to push the bombs out.
(idk its just an interesting lore problem i guess)
The original trilogy did the stupid "gravity bombing in space" thing in Empire Strikes back when the Tie Bombers were bombarding the asteroids in an attempt to flush out the Falcon. The difference is that they played everything with a straight face in the OT while everything is a fucking joke in the mouse movies which makes everything just look dumb and breaks any suspension of disbelief that you might have.
In the original trilogy, the Empire was portrayed as being competent and professional. While the viewers in the audience can notice and critique strategic and tactical blunders that the Empire makes such as the impracticality of their super weapons or the laughable state of stormtrooper marksmanship, everyone within the setting treats the super weapons as if they're serious business and that the stormtroopers are highly trained and professional soldiers. It's a bit like gaslighting and we can suspend disbelief and play along with stupid and impractical things so long as the cast is putting on a good show and is being serious about everything the whole time. But everything just sticks out like a sore thumb if the writing is dogshit. We can forgive gravity bombing in space when the protagonists treat it like a serious threat as they take shelter and work towards formulating some kind of masterful plan to outwit the Empire's Elite. It just looks dumb as fuck as part of some excuse to squeeze prank phone calls into the film and to paradoxically dress down one of the main characters for the crime of succeeding at a suicide mission that should have had a 0% chance of success.
>Say what you will about nu-wars, rogue one >was fucking based
[...]
[...]
Basically the mouse movies are dogshit because the antagonists are dogshit. The scripts were written by incompetent fucks who don't know the first thing about writing a story. Good heroes are defined by their villains and you can't have an impressive hero without having an impressive villain for them to overcome. The Empire, Darth Vader, and the Emperor were all written as being serious adversaries that the Rebellion took deadly seriously. In contrast the protagonists can't look impressive standing against the antagonists of the Mouse films since they were all fucking jokes. I don't even remember their fucking names. We had not-Ben Solo who was a childish character with anger issues, General whatshisname who couldn't go five minutes without being the butt of a joke, not-Emperor Snorkel who died pathetically, Chrome trooper who also just died, and then somehow the Emperor returned. We could never take the antagonists seriously amidst all of the yo-mama jokes or Girl-Boss moments. They tried to make the antagonists scary by letting them pull super weapons and fleets out of their ass, but they were always treated like buffoons by the cast.
Critical Drinker's analysis is spot on
>The difference is that they played everything with a straight face in the OT while everything is a fucking joke in the mouse movies which makes everything just look dumb and breaks any suspension of disbelief that you might have.
This. Years ago there was a movie called Cowboys & Aliens (which also starred Harrison Ford). By name alone, the premise sounds silly, but the movie was actually decent because they played everything as straight as possible.
>Cowboys & Aliens
Everyone hated it but I recall thinking it was alright, for its goofy premise
Perhaps I should give it a rewatch
If only for Olivia Wilde
So basically he was a space Fudd who believed in the racking a shotgun approach to home/imperial defense.
>he was a space Fudd who believed in the Oradour-sur-Glane approach to home/imperial defense
Look it up
The grav field (the same field that makes it so you can walk normally on a ship as if you were on a planet) draws the bombs towards the ships. The bombers reverse said grav field in the bomb bay to push the bombs out.
(idk its just an interesting lore problem i guess)
Ep. VII finally broke me from SW nerd debating. Stardestroyer, Space Battles, you know those forums. What did it was the scene of the space bombers dropping gravity bombs on another spaceship. "T-the writers a-and directors too…it’s a ww2 story to them…?" How could a nerd POSSIBLY debate this? Gravity bombing space combat is canon now, it’s utterly untenable. You simply can’t continue.
Basically the mouse movies are dogshit because the antagonists are dogshit. The scripts were written by incompetent fucks who don't know the first thing about writing a story. Good heroes are defined by their villains and you can't have an impressive hero without having an impressive villain for them to overcome. The Empire, Darth Vader, and the Emperor were all written as being serious adversaries that the Rebellion took deadly seriously. In contrast the protagonists can't look impressive standing against the antagonists of the Mouse films since they were all fucking jokes. I don't even remember their fucking names. We had not-Ben Solo who was a childish character with anger issues, General whatshisname who couldn't go five minutes without being the butt of a joke, not-Emperor Snorkel who died pathetically, Chrome trooper who also just died, and then somehow the Emperor returned. We could never take the antagonists seriously amidst all of the yo-mama jokes or Girl-Boss moments. They tried to make the antagonists scary by letting them pull super weapons and fleets out of their ass, but they were always treated like buffoons by the cast.
Turning the villains into the butt of a joke was just one of the biggest mistakes that they could make. Right behind all of the "force is female" bullshit.
Another scene that sticks out is from one of the disney+ series where some old smuggler guy dabs on some kind of interdictor cruiser that has him locked in a tractor beam by releasing a bunch of garbage from the back of his ship that smashes into the tractor beam array and destroys it. Plebbit gobbled it up and sucked off each others' dicks about how it was so cool and smart to just use the tractor beam against itself like that and that the villains were dumb for using the tactic in the first place. But the whole scene was retarded and reeked of the writers not doing their homework because ships in star wars are shielded and particle shields that protect against micrometeorites and space garbage are civilian commercial level tech. A warship with a fuck-huge tractor beam array wouldn't be vulnerable to assorted bits of space trash getting caught in the beam since it would be protected from stuff like that by design. The centerpiece of an entire warship is going to be protected from outright weapons fire, much less bits of space trash.
>The difference is that they played everything with a straight face in the OT while everything is a fucking joke in the mouse movies which makes everything just look dumb and breaks any suspension of disbelief that you might have.
This. Years ago there was a movie called Cowboys & Aliens (which also starred Harrison Ford). By name alone, the premise sounds silly, but the movie was actually decent because they played everything as straight as possible.
They used magnetic rails to drop the bombs out, but it's still a fucking dumb deployment strategy. How is a bomber that cumbersome supposed to live long enough to get over a target? The scene should've been based around multi-crew 'torpedo boats' charging in and letting loose a brace of heavy missiles.
I liked the Last Order dreadnaught commander. It’s like he suddenly realized his lifetime of hard campaigning was going to end in a slapstick comedy show.
How many super atar destroyers could the empire have constructed and manned for one death star?
Hell how many regular star destroyers for that matter?
Also why were they retarded enough to get rid of the fighter carrier type star destroyers with basically nothing to replace it?
The Rebels get the rope. The Empire was the answer the Galaxy needed.
Reminder the New Republic was such a shitshow it devolved into infighting within 10 years. A fucking Imperial Grand Admiral ended up as Chancellor, got slapped by the Vong, lost the Second Galactic Civil War and fucking Leia's (peak republican) kid ended up as the Empress Consort of the Fel Empire.
The Empire probably would've been bitch slapped by the Vong just as hard as the New Republic was. Despite the Vong not really being affected by the Force, Jedi were still the best warriors to fight them 1v1 just because of how powerful a Vong warrior was.
The republic lasted for 25,000 years and saw the greatest prosperity and peace the galaxy has ever known. The empire couldn't even make it a full generation before it shattered.
The Empire lasted like 25 years and spent all its time being cunts to people for no reason. >A few million credits get stolen in the ass-end of nowhere >Spergs out and immediately doubles the prison sentences of every inmate in the galaxy
I AM curious how the Empire was going to face the Vong. Palpatine was WHOLLY dedicated to the Force, facing a threat which resisted the Force might have been an OCP for him. I’m sure he’d disappear for a while to consult ancient Sith ghosts, do big Force rituals, etc while Vader ran around like crazy trying to keep things together.
Not to detract too much from the setting of the discussion but in real world terms the death star was comparable to a wonder weapon like the nuclear bomb. But so far in human history only the USA has been able to pull off that feat of revolutionizing war with a super weapon. For most other war related nuance it's usually a matter of economy of scale and production that wins wars.
>belligerent worlds with large sector defense fleets and planetary shields are are funneling ships and resources to an insurrection that can strike with impunity anywhere in the galaxy >even at the height of the Empire with a peacekeeping force of 32,000 capital ships only one or two worlds could be properly sieged at a time without leaving entire sectors vulnerable
The Death Star and SSDs were supposed to be the final solution to the intractable problem of space siege warfare and policing the hyperspace lanes. The Death Star eliminated costly planetary sieges and a SSD was a singular blocking element that could prevent a hostile sector fleet from striking elsewhere by camping on the major hyperspace lanes.
Tarkin Doctrine emphasized psychological impact over military effectiveness. The weapons didn't have to work per se, just make people scared enough not to rebel. This was really stupid but I guess it kinda makes sense if you feel that you have no other way to possibly maintain control over the galaxy.
>the psychological effectiveness of letting the Rebels post endless spacetube videos of imperial tie fighter pilots getting slaughtered by rebel fighters.
>Hoth in 2 more weeks Imperialbros
Empire took Hoth in like a day. Tactical victory, strategically indecisive.
Because corruption. If they really wanted to keep people in line they would just have a million riot police barracks on every planet. They didn't need a Navy, just a Coast Guard type organization.
>If they really wanted to keep people in line they would just have a million riot police barracks on every planet.
They didn't have the money for that. As ridiculous as it sounds, the Deathstar was supposed to be a cost cutting move.
If they wanted to cut costs, they could've simply not have built up a massive military. That only makes sense if you think that they did it to defend against a future invasion. Otherwise they were building a huge military to do a police job of fighting criminals and dissidents and they otherwise didn't have much competition if at all.
Jobs program
Dude... anon was saying the Death Star was built so that planets would fall in line. Because he was having difficulty getting people to obey him. That's how the Rebel Alliance (and IRL corruption) works. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes, geddit? The threat of being completely obliterated would get planetary governments to crack down harder on rebels and dissidents in order to save their own skin. It would be impossible to build a big enough military to force all planets everywhere to comply.
You're not cut out for this people management thing, are ya?
That's fucking retarded, if a planet is productive then it's worth staffing it with officers.
If it's not productive then it's not a threat anyway.
>no other way to possibly maintain control over the galaxy
rebel hands typed this
The empire was based off of the Nazi's, so making fuck huge Wunderwaffen that didn't work and served as shock value is on brand.
Yeah but after the first one is destroyed the doctrine fails,since any rebel now knows that they are paper tigers.But to be fair the ships used by other factions aren't well designed either.
>psychological impact over military effectiveness
Totally ineffective
It was working after the ds popped it's first planet everyone pretty much folded to the empire
The Death Star was lost mere days after Alderaan's destruction though, so evaluating how effective it would have been at quelling dissent is going to be skewered by the fact that most of the galaxy found out about these two events almost simultaneously.
The Galactic Senate was dissolved around the time Scarif was being blown up.
>dissolved
Can't help but think Sheev just Force lightninged them all.
I guess rule through terror meshed well with palp dark side ideology.
So basically he was a space Fudd who believed in the racking a shotgun approach to home/imperial defense.
No, it's more like collective punishment. Rather then trying to get everyone to play nice because they like or at least tolerate the government, make it so that if you have rebels on your planet, you're risking sudden random death of everyone on said planet. This in turn will get the populations to self police themselves super hard to avoid the risk of the Death Star showing up. Of course, this idea didn't work well IRL because it turns out that killing civilians just means that everyone else hates you and has no reason to hold back if they're gonna die anyway, so unless you're content ruling a bunch of asteroid fields, Tarkin doctrine was fundamentally flawed.
Empire was retarded to drop arc170s and republic gunships
I prefer the fuckery this fiasco caused.
that movie was gay, but that shot is fucking sick as hell.
The absolute silence in the theater when it happened was a cool moment. All the technical aspects of the sequels are pretty great, visuals, sound design, etc. Not having any overarching plan for the story just completely fucked them.
>The absolute silence in the theater when it happened was a cool moment.
Yes, I had the same experience.
>All the technical aspects of the sequels are pretty great, visuals, sound design, etc. Not having any overarching plan for the story just completely fucked them.
yeah and it was annoying how they just kept getting worse. you could be forgiven for enjoying rogue one. some people could have fun at 7. the rest, blegh.
I betcha if the audience hadn't turned against the movie by then nobody would have given a fuck. Nerds would have just made up fan-canon on the spot justifying it.
But every preceding problem makes the next one stick out more.
Chicken and egg, anon. The audience turned against the movie because they sensed it was retarded, even if they couldn't exactly put their finger on why.
>I betcha if the audience hadn't turned against the movie by then nobody would have given a fuck. Nerds would have just made up fan-canon on the spot justifying it.
Even if the rest of the movie had been great it would still have been a shitty ending. There was no foreshadowing or anything, the writer just needed the rebels to win so they pulled something out of their ass.
>yo momma
>pizza slice shoots stationary base first instead of fleet about to escape
>those fucking bombers
>lmao we ean out of gas
>three ties take out the entirety of the rebs remaining fighters and decapitate rebel leadership
>one gets blown up so the imps pull them back in the first display of ever giving a single fuck about the lives of tie pilots
>that was the second time they decided to just no wipe out the rebs for good
>everything about holdo
>got get this guy he's the only one who can do it
>oh wait no this rando will do
>every retarded fucking thing rose says or does
>hey kids here's the logo of the rebel alliance/new republic who didn't give enough of a fuck about you or your planet to help so you should totally help us so we can live and still leave you in this fucking stable
>shitty imitation of the dagobah cave scene that says nothing
>everything else relating to luke and his island as well
>hurr durr fight for what you love and not what you hate like finn wasn't doing exactly that
>that shitty throne room fight scene
>the fucking hyperspace ram
Everything about that fucking movie was god awful and an actual insult to fans.
I did get a chuckle out of Hux nearly blasting Kylo before he woke up. That was actually funny.
>shitty imitation of the dagobah cave scene that says nothing
Lucas: so, like, you have to be careful not to fall to the Dark Side in yourself, McKay
Johnson: UMM LIKE WEIRD MIRROR EFFECTS AND UMM NOTHING HAHA FOOLED YA AGAIN LOLOLOL
You're forgetting some juicy bits:
>replace Luke "there's still good in him" Skywalker with Luke "my teenage nephew is kind of angsty, guess I have to kill him in his sleep" Skywalker
>Kill Luke in post-production. Don't tell Mark Hamil until he sees it firsthand in the premier.
Hamil is a gay that spends all day crying about Trump and talking about how evil white people are so I really don't feel bad for him at all
Mark is right though. Imagine if Palpatine was a giant, whiny bitch who coasted on his charisma and the corrupt system protecting him rather than being an actual chess master playing everyone for suckers and you'd get Trump.
Out of any given video seen, this is the look of a man about to kill another.
Yeah, that shot was literally and unironically kino. Ironically pretty much the only good thing about the whole nu trilogy.
it's a good looking shot but it breaks the lore of the entire IP so it's pretty much dogshit
I say this as something of a former SW autist: as far as I'm concerned, the lore was pretty fucked before this shot, if for no other reason than the 1.8 movies immediately preceding it. At least there was fucking artistry at work for this one moment, and an understanding of what made Star Wars compelling as a cinematic experience.
Your gonna love how Dave fucked it again.
This shit while looking rad is too retarded to be canon as is retroactively completely wrecks the verisimilitude of the setting. If this was even remotely how hyperspace worked in SW, a setting that has had commercially available hyperspace travel for more than a millennia, warfare would have adopted a hyperspace cannon and kill vehicle meta several hundreds of years before the OT takes place.
Nobody truly understands how hyperspace works in the Star Wars universe. I would imagine being able to guide an unmanned vehicle in it would be nearly impossible. It’s also stated later that it was a pretty low odds kind of maneuver. She was just taking a swing and hoping she made contact.
She was trying to run away but had terrible luck
That was the cope excuse they made afterwards in the third movie because their shit got called out. Let me reiterate, if that was even remotely possible, the galaxy would have weaponized it centuries if not millennia before the OT.
They do have some idea of what's out in the Unknown regions due to Thrawn and what data he brought with him when got picked up by them.
>It’s also stated later that it was a pretty low odds kind of maneuver.
The crew of Imperial ship was very aware of what's she's doing and they were scared shitless. In director mind it was concept that everyone were aware of, not some on in the million fluke
>In director mind it was
HAHA DIDNT SEE THAT COMING DIDJA I SUBVERTED YOUR EXPECTATIONS AGAIN HAHAHA
>FURIOUSLY DEEPTHROATS SELF
Many wrongly assume Starwars to be sci-fi, but it's just a space magic fantasy.
>I prefer the fuckery this fiasco caused.
I am just wondering how Star Wars is supposed to move forward now that any capital ship can fit a laser powerful enough to destroy a planet. Who the fuck thought that sort of insane power creep was remotely a good idea?!
>Who the fuck thought that sort of insane power creep was remotely a good idea?!
Its a bit of a nothingburger if you ask me, of sure its possible now for every two bit star destroyer to have that laser, but does anyone know how to build one?
>but does anyone know how to build one?
Probably if not from the remains of hundreds of crashed ships then from investigating how they were built. Over a thousand of these things were built. It would be one hell of a handwave to put that genie back in the bottle... not that anyone seems to care about being coherent at Disney anymore.
The whateverthefuck class star destroyer is almost twice as big as a regular star destroyer and even with that size the power required to power the laser made it a flying bomb. If the new canon about the death star is consistant though that means you'll still need a shitload of light saber crystals to put in there. Now take into account that Palpatine built 10k of those things, they must have had a fuck load or found a way to synthesize them. Since all 10k were wrecked on the same sith world, the potential for superlaser weapons proliferation in the post-ST galaxy is massive and every spooky actor is going to want to go there and scavenge crystals and tech to make their own. Also, since 10k ships each with 30k crew on them were destroyed by Lando's angry flying space mob, said mob must have been insanely massive. One side was entirely wiped out and the losses for Lando gang was likely also collossal simply from the sheer scale of the battle, and given that they almost lost. We're talking about at least 300 million people, and easily twice that once accounting for both sides, died in the space of a couple of hours on a sort of planet that's usually already haunted as fuck.
This isn't even getting into there likely being a major power vacuum after the ST as every major player has been destroyed to such a degree that Lando's ancap mob had to save the day. Welcome to ancap post colonial space African with recreational McSuperlaser proliferation.
The number of ships there makes no fucking sense.
Like where is the industry to produce all that.
There's got to be a massive industrial complex on that cultist rock producing Kyber crystals. So now there's a planets sized shipyard in bumfuck nowhere that's temporarily unoccupied
And it's covered in the wrecks of the ships it just spent 50 or so years building. Anyway, yeah it's retarded and Disney has no sense of scale.
>Don't worry, just buy issue #1756 of the latest Star Wars comic that drops some tantalizing hints!
>After that you might want to buy this other book that goes into deeper detail about these starships!
My dude, none of this is a problem. In fact, the worse these movies are the better it is for Disney. Now you can release a thousand other tie ins that provide some critical piece of context that "fix" the movie or expand on the many shitty "characters" they've added. Star Wars fans are some of the worst hyper-consumers out there.
>Star Destroyer
>Can blow up planets.
Speaking of which, if any of you have it or pirate it, watch tonight's Foundation. You'll get to see this...
The EU had a dumb weapon called the Sun Crusher that exploded stars instead of crushing them. It was also just bullshit invincible and would destroy battleships by just ramming through them kool-aid man style.
Everyone agreed that it was dumb and they dropped it into the middle of a gas giant to forget about it.
To also point out, if this used real physics, the result would have been much much worse than this. Something on par with a small supernova.
When they say in the next film
>it was a million to one shot
Oh so she was just trying to run away then
I would have prefer each side having super star destroyers and engaging each other broadside. But no we got to have kamikaze space shit.
I always love the art of captured Imperial ships
>We stole this Star Destroyer
>Cool, go paint a big ass Phoenix on the side so everyone knows what team you're on
Why is it a boondoggle?
Hero units can really turn the tide in any EAW battle, which is a fairly good strategic representation of SW battles.
>in space anyway, the ground combat is retarded
B/c the Empire could’ve built like 100 star destroyers for the same price.
They accomplished nothing in the same battle. As far as EaW goes having one of those around severely reduces attrition.
>You're forgetting that it took literally the entire Rebel fleet to overwhelm its defences
It had a larger fleet escorting it, the death star picking off multiple ships at long range and an overwhelming advantage in fighters. Space magic was not on their side.
>It had a larger fleet escorting it
Which was apparently hampered by its own numbers and unable to engage effectively
>the death star picking off multiple ships at long range
Apparently stopped by the Rebel fleet hugging the Imperial fleet
>and an overwhelming advantage in fighters
TIEs do really badly against Rebel fighters
Also the battle was interrupted by the destruction of the Death Star. Frankly I believe the Rebels were at their last gasp and the remaining ISDs should have been able to finish them off. IOW they made a suicide run for the Death Star and the Super Star Destroyer.
>Which was apparently hampered by its own numbers and unable to engage effectively
At worst they'd be able to engage rebel ships 1 or 2 to one both sides ships were built around broadsides.
>Apparently stopped by the Rebel fleet hugging the Imperial fleet
Doesn't bring back lost ships.
>TIEs do really badly against Rebel fighters
Not in episode IV.
>Not in episode IV.
4 of them got bodied by a freighter while the remainder were Vader's personally trained squadron of super elite pilots assisted by like a thousand turbo lasers constantly targeting the rebel fighters limiting their movement and splitting their focus as they have to dodge both.
>4 of them got bodied by a freighter
If one takes a step back, wasn't Corellia's strategy (at least during the Imperial Era) in effect to build vast numbers of high-performance dual-use spacecraft in complement to what the Mon Calamari did on the heavier end?
Thankfully the rebels were only fielding freighters at Endor.
No
Corellia's strategy was being so fucking rich and so fucking monopolistic that even the Emperor didn't dare piss them off overly. It's like what if somebody built literally all the merchant shipping in the world and invading them would just turn off international trade and leave the entire world to starve.
Even so I think in the Imperial era they were compromised and had to cooperate with the Emperor.
Even peak Imperial rule had significant limitations, and the Rebels thrived in these areas. Hutt Space being another one of them.
I wonder if we will ever get to see Kuat in film?
Rather questionable that you can be hampered by your own numbers in the gigantic 3-dimensional void that is space.
Also even in the rebels did hug the imperial fleet, aren't these imperial ships stuffed with guns themselves or what.
Apparently those guns are really short range.
How else to explain the use of fighters and bombers in space, and ships manoeuvring so close that they can collide?
>they'd be able to engage rebel ships 1 or 2 to one
Correct
So even if you have 100 ISDs and the Rebels have 10 MC70s, you're not engaging 10 ships to 1.
>Doesn't bring back lost ships
Does limit further attrition
>Not in episode IV
Trench run =/= dogfighting
>So even if you have 100 ISDs and the Rebels have 10 MC70s, you're not engaging 10 ships to 1.
20 to 10 while those 10 are focusing on the SSD sounds good?
>Does limit further attrition
Is this saying they could do less damage or that losing ships is good because they can't be lost twice?
>Trench run =/= dogfighting
There was plenty of dogfighting. Even looking at the trench run alone TIE fighters catching up and generally requiring a single hit to kill doesn't say great things about the X wing's superiority.
Acording to wiki the empire had 25 000 ISDs at the time of Yavin
That means more than 1 000 ISDs per year or like 1 ISD being commissioned on average every 7 hours.
I doubt the industrial capacity of the empire (Especially with its heavy reliance on KDY) could increase that rate of production much
>I doubt the industrial capacity of the empire (Especially with its heavy reliance on KDY) could increase that rate of production much
They found enough industrial capacity to build the Death Star which is the size of all those 25,000 Star destroyers put together... then they did it again. Actually building the Death Star kinda makes even Super Star Destroyers a drop in the pan.
To increase the production any further they would need to recreate the industrial infrastructure of KDY somewhere else.
Even if star wars doesn't acknowledge it the construction of warships is a big industrial commitment which requires a lot of resources.
Saying they built the death star instead of 25k additional ISDs is disingenuous as they would probably not have the yard space for double production of ISDs
Instead I'd say they built the Death Star instead of another massive shipyard capable of producing another 500+ ISDs per year
>To increase the production any further they would need to recreate the industrial infrastructure of KDY somewhere else.
Do you think the Death Star required no industrial infrastructure to build? The parts for it were just produced nowhere? What you are seeing in picrel is just final assembly, all that had to be built somewhere. The off screen industrial infrastructure that fabricated the individual parts for that monster is clearly far past whatever section of KDY was dedicated to Imperial Star Destroyer production.
NTA but building a one-off like the DS is more like constructing a building than mass producing multiple warships off the same plans
This. It's the same problem as with all those "Germans should build only u-boats".
A lot of resources used by one can't be just used in construction of other. Unless you wanna steam powered, heavy armoured u-bout with single 389cm gun
Yeah industry and competence isn't something you just get instantly by throwing monet att it. Industry can expand with financial resources but that expansion will always take a premium.
The industry construction the DS is much better suited to expand military and civilian infrastructure than building ships directly.
If those resources were to be put to use increasing the number of warships it would be in the form of expanded infrastructure and production capacity. Setting up new industries to produce parts, increase outputof required materials(still probably in the form of prison work camps and slavery) and increasing the amount of officers being trained to man it all.
This would probably actually secure a lot of planets for the empire as due to the increase in commercial activity and investments connected to such a project.
Instead of what the DS construction was, a pure drain with minimal beneficial commercial effects as all construction was done in absolute secrecy using slave labour and resulting in the extermination of one of the most productive (tho admittedly with fickle loyalties) industrial complexes in the outer rim. The project in short deprived the empire of vast amounts of resources while simultaneously directly resulting in the destruction of a major industrial center. All this while using the industrial capacity that would otherwise be focused on infrastructure and improving the economy. If that effort had instead been spent on increasing the amount of warships the biggest impact wouldn't be the amount of warships in service but the amount of warships can be produced, refitted, repaired and all the industrial processes that brings
>This would probably actually secure a lot of planets for the empire as due to the increase in commercial activity and investments connected to such a project
Lol no
You can't just throw money and investments at people and expect them to be grateful and buy into your Sith Imperial globohomo
That's the mistake the Americans made in Iraq
They will happily take your cash and your weapons and use it against you
If your livelihood is dependent on a institution you are incentivised to not disrupt said instituion. As long as other incentives don't outweigh it.
It won't magically pacify a hostile population. But it might convince an uncertain one. Or atleast make it apathetic
>As long as other incentives don't outweigh it.
That's the problem: the Rebel ISIS Alliance have better incentives than the Empire's goodies does, ie to overthrow the Emperor.
You're talking about a fundamental principle of politics here: why handouts sometimes work and sometimes don't, with different voters.
>he project in short deprived the empire of vast amounts of resources while simultaneously directly resulting in the destruction of a major industrial center
Sheev would probably call that a win on that basis alone.
The issue might more be space to build ships especially if they where almost exclusively produced in a single shipyard. The production of a massive station is also not the same production infrastructure as the production of warships. Though there is overlapp.
Using the money that was used to build the deathstar to make a massive mobile shipyard is a better use of resources than a massive laser
What are the odds the the bridge deflector shield generator would be destroyed, then a kamikaze would hit right through the window on the bridge? It would be like a single fighter making it all the way through the defenses on the Death Star trench and firing a pair of proton torpedoes down a tiny exhaust shaft. Completely impossible!
What's funny is Vader warned them. He warned them that the power of that space statin was insignificant compared to the power of the force. And he was a hundred percent correct.
How do you think bares the most responsibility of the big three for fucking up the Empire? Tarkin, Palp's, or Vader?
Its a tie between Vader and Sheev. Vader for chimping out and throwing Sheev down a pit, and Sheev for coming up with that stupid plan to begin with.
I can't recall the OT that well, but wasn't Vader chimping out ultimately on Sheev anyway?
Aside from EU lore featuring Sheev constantly torturing Vader he was also frying Luke right in front of him with force lightning. Him being killed by Vader was really him just asking for it.
Palpatine, easily.
His methods of control created vast enmity towards his rule.
At least PRETENDING to be a benevolent dictator and having a few good deeds to back that up might have gone a long way.
Insurgencies are as much a propaganda war as anything else.
Palpatine really didn’t help his case, he should have went more on his whole force antichrist thing and give the people of the galaxy more comforts along the security of the Empire to where desperate, war torn planets everywhere would fall in line without a single shot fired and become too entrenched to care about anything else. But Tarkin, that guy was just a retard whose dad hit him too much and arguably doomed the Imperial military the second a single defeat happens. As far as Vader goes he was in a weird spot where technically he was only under Palps, but in practice he was only Palps’ personal hound and even after force choking multiple people wasn’t really taken seriously by many other officers.
You're forgetting that it took literally the entire Rebel fleet to overwhelm its defences
>why build a single B-2 when you can build like thirty-two F-16s for the same price
Wasn't a kamikaze. Dude lost control of his A-wing after getting hit. Why else would he be spinning uncontrollably?
The issue isn't that.
The main question is secondary/tertiary/quaternary bridge in a completely different part of the ship doko?
Yes the Ewoks joining the battle was also unlikely.
Reminder we have a reason as to why they didn't fly on the eagles
kek
seriously though
>Ring seduces Boromir within days
>hand it to some stupid bird
Were the Superdestroyers anything other than a massive waste of imperial taxpayer credits?
They made a shitton of them, but the Rebels just used a bunch of cheaper merchant ships they slapped some guns on, and cruisers meant to fight pirates.
Still a brilliant sketch
?si=iLIc580fPbJ4dpql
>What was the Emperor thinking?
I mean in terms of expensive boondoggles, the Empire has done a lot worse. I mean how many Super Star Destroyers could they build instead of 1 Death Star, like a thousand? Send a thousand of those instead of a Death Star and they'll make that planet uninhabitable just fine without the critical flaw of putting all your eggs in one basket.
I love that they made that a plot point in Rebels with Thrawn.
His big wonderweapon he wanted to show off to the other Admirals was just a new type of fighter that they could actually mass produce. Cause he thinks the Death Star is stupid. Because it's one thing can be in one place at one time.
Well for one they blew up a planet.
>they made that a plot point in Rebels with Thrawn.
Typical nu-Star Wars "look how smart I am, I poked a plot hole in the universe" bullshit
It's horseshit like that that makes an absurdity of the original universe's rules, culminating ultimately in
The Death Star was built because it's effective according to the rules of the original Star Wars universe. Changing that means literally everyone in the Star Wars universe is a retard, in which case you can just use Looney Tunes logic and dumb everything down to children's SatAM level... which is what Rebels is, not so coincidentally
Filoni thinks like a child and writes like a child, that's why his star wars shit follows children's logic and is excellent cartoon fodder for children
You'd have a point.
Except Vader ALSO thought the Death Star was stupid and said so to Tarkin to his face. And he was completely right.
He said the ability to destroy a planet was useless besides the power of the force, and all the admirals rolled their eyes. But Luke used the force to fire a torpedo straight into the reactor and there was nothing Tarkin could do about it.
And Vader would say the same thing to Thrawn and his vaunted whateverfighter. To him the Force is the ultimate weapon. It's literally God, remember? Luke killing the Death Star is not because of multiple trench runs by a fantabulous new starfighter on a pre-sabotaged secret weakness the Rebels spent half their fleet on acquiring. It's the Force. (Which is also true, because the Force in Star Wars is like fate magic, lining up all these things in a row for Luke to knock down.)
IRL this is like arguing that the Me262 could have been the real war winner because Goering complained about the Luftwaffe being unable to stop the deHavilland Mosquito.
The main reason the DS was stupid is because the tarkin doctrine was plain retarded. Using it against the Yuuzhan Vong is one thing but even Machiavelli pointed out why such overt terror moves are foolish.
If they tried a honeypot against Alderann and tried them as terrorists hiding behind the hypocrisy of pacifism instead of blowing up the planet for no known reason it would have been more effective.
Its effectiveness was in its ability to ignore planetary-grade shields and simply vaporize the entire planet. That's nothing to sneeze at, but at the same time, it's a massive waste of resources. That planet could have been strip-mined, using the slave labor of its own population.
A far superior option would have been to build the SSD around a single superlaser. That probably would have been good enough to blow through a planetary shield, sniping the generators and clearing the way for conventional turbolaser bombardment and invasion.
Yeah. Too bad no one ever built a SSD around a super laser.
EU/Legends have Eclipse-class SSD
>single reactor ignition
It can limit its destruction.
Palps wanted TOTAL PLANETARY DEATH in order to utterly terrorise the galaxy into submission
something something, nuke analogy, I dunno
>MUH LORE
The Lore never matched what was on the screen. Every time a ship goes into hyperspace in any of the starwars movies, we're shown a rapid acceleration, where the stars seem to rush towards the ship, then a swirling blue tunnel which is hyperspace. The scene in Last Jedi seems to utilize that initial acceleration for a short range kamikaze attack.
The lore problem is that kamikaze'ing with hyperspace completely breaks star wars space combat. If you can do that then why bother with turbolasers? Just fire hyperspace projectiles at each other.
Previously, it was just assumed that hyperspace ramming wouldn't work for whatever reason since the characters never even suggested it.
Then explain the Galaxy Gun?
I didn't read Dark Empire, it seemed too stupid to bother with. From what I've read on the wiki, its more like an ICBM. Using hyperspace to move the projectile through space before dropping it back into regular space when it reaches the target.
Wasn't that a fucking fake superweapon sold to the Hutts by the designer who made sure it wouldn't work? Also costing the New Republic one of the people who appeared in the OT?
That was a bootleg death star. The Galaxy Gun was super weapon created by the empire that fired hyperspace missiles at planets to blow them up..
Also shows how retardedly OP R2-D2 because it took over a super star destroyer and rammed the galaxy gun and it fired off a missile that blew up the planet it was operating from destroying the new empire.
Oh right, that was the Darksaber. Not to be confused with the Mando glowie beat stick of command.
Why did they stop producing droid armies? Cheaper and makes it so that people don't have skin in the game so they're less likely to rebel.
1. The production companies / banks that made them were shut down.
2. The Republic is mostly Human dominated and Droids were seen as an Alien thing / threat along with Grevious (Doesn't help most of the confederacy were alien species too)
3. Clones were proven better than the Droids in warfare (To Palpatine's machinations).
4. The Republic instituted bans on android technologies and growth from the fear of the Separatists.
>makes it so that people don't have skin in the game
That's exactly what. A droid army doesn't employ millions of Imperial citizens in the same way. It doesn't make the common man a part of the Empire in the same manner. You recruit a soldier and you now align them with you. Anyone who rebels against you now must make an enemy of his fellow citizens and their friends and families.
Planets = gravity wells, gravity wells are normally bad news for shit entering and exiting hyperspace
Ships = very very small, so a projectile exiting hyperspace and hitting one is vanishingly unlikely
Design a missile whose specific purpose is to drop into a gravity well and hit a VERY LARGE target (planetary core) before exploding = Galaxy Gun
I always assumed that the impossibility of hyperspace ramming came from the distinctive paths and "roads" drawn by the hyperspace. It was kinda always implied that hyperspaces followed dedicated lines that were explored a long time ago and that you could join only by reaching specific doors. They completely reverted that logic since the sequels and nowadays any space battle makes no sense at all as they any of the opponent can just jump to hyperspace at any time.
>hyperspaces followed dedicated lines that were explored a long time ago
Theoretically you can enter Hyperspace at any point in the galaxy, but large objects cast a shadow mass into hyperspace that will tear your spacecraft into pieces. Hyperspace lines are areas cleared of any such objects that allow long distance travel without disturbance.
>all discussion on rkkv in SW
Lucas wanted it from the start. ILM in the 70-80s couldn’t do it. The rkkv has been a staple of sci fi since the golden age but opened the door most are complaining about. It DOES render space combat moot when you have a true MAD weapon available. Basically, they are not used under treaties. You are dealing with a weapon in which the smallest of debris can do this to local bodies.
After the Empire blew up Alderaan and her entire civilian population I don't think treaties would hold much weight. Especially since the very thing used to BTFO Alderaan is a fucking giant flying ball with an actual target on the front.
>it's the Dune "lasers + shield = nuke" but "banned by treaties" cope
the problem is twofold
1. all the ingredients are common as fuck
2. "rebels" aren't bound by arms treaties
it's like saying you can make a small nuke by strapping a refrigerator magnet to a handheld laser (while showing us that both are easy as hell to buy) - it's literally not something your world's treaties can control.
a brick with a hyperdrive attached to it is now the most cost effective weapon in the setting. no amount of headcanon can fix it. it's broken the balance of in universe weaponry to the core.
all because Rian Johnson wanted to make a Star Wars movie that Star Wars fans would hate because he hated them for liking Star Wars. it's such a fucking joke.
TLJ hyperspace ramming was retarded and broke canon because it was already stablished in Legends that ships go into hyperspace lowering their mass, so the ship would have been destroyed without barely any effect to the target.
This is a classic sci-fi trope to make WW2-style pew pew space battles necessary. But Ryan Johnston is a hack that understood SW less than even JJ Abrams.
>TLJ hyperspace ramming was retarded and broke canon because it was already stablished in Legends that ships go into hyperspace lowering their mass, so the ship would have been destroyed without barely any effect to the target.
The Malevolence gets hyper-spaced straight into a moon and the resulting explosion looks just as big as Death Star's test fire.
>The Malevolence gets hyper-spaced
nope, it doesn't really jump in the scene, and the moon doesn't break anyway, we only see a flash in the impact point
this
>Rian Johnson is a hack
Could've just stopped right there.
I honestly have not been able to enjoy a single one of his retarded movies.
Not even fucking Brothers Bloom.
>Legends
>canon
All jokes aside, interdiction fields break the setting even worse, but no one complains.
>Admiral Raddus, a massive object is emerging from hyperspace
>Gentlealiens, it has been an honour and privilege
>KAMIKAZE HYPERJUMP
>Princess, the Death Star is in firing range of Yavin
>Han, I love you
>I know
>KAMIKAZE HYPERJUMP
>Admiral Ozzel, you emerged from hyperspace too close to the planet!
>For the Rebellion!
>KAMIKAZE HYPERJUMP
>Many Bothans died to bring us this information
>*in Bothanese* tenno heika banzai!
>KAMIKAZE HYPERJUMP
It just doesn't work, anon.
>>*in Bothanese* tenno heika banzai!
Got me
It does work, but with secondary characters. Also, SW needs biped mecha.
Using the infinite mass of lightspeed objects is a hard sci-fi concept brought into a VERY soft sci-fi universe. Now that door has been opened just about every aspect of the fucking universe must be questioned.
It's the definition of a midwit move in that it uses something scientific and mistakes it for being clever.
>The Empire can't possibly be dumb because that would make the story stupid!
Why do so many loretards always bitch and complain about "children's logic" whenever a totalitarian dictatorship is depicted as dysfunctional, incompetent and prone to stupid hubristic mistakes, given that's almost always how they function in real life? I don't think Palps actually has anything matching Lysenkoism or Mao's sparrow-cide in terms of rank self-defeating idiocy.
If anything, it's unrealistic that Thrawn didn't just get murdered by some conspiracy of grifting admirals (to be blamed on the rebels, of course) when he turned out to actually be competent at his job.
>a totalitarian dictatorship is depicted as dysfunctional, incompetent and prone to stupid hubristic mistakes
More than that, anon.
If the Death Star and the Empire is so retarded, the Rebel Alliance would have no problem winning the war. That the Rebel Alliance had such difficulty winning, implies that the entire fucking galaxy is so retarded a literal cartoon villain is smarter.
This is the problem with Rebels Thrawn.
And ultimately this kind of smart-arse thinking leads to
>just, yknow, hyperspace into the enemy
>ugh I'm such a genius
Classic.
>if a planet is productive then it's worth staffing it with officers
It costs more to invade a hundred planets and garrison it than to build a Death Star and terrorise a hundred planets into compliance of their own accord
>That the Rebel Alliance had such difficulty winning, implies that the entire fucking galaxy is so retarded a literal cartoon villain is smarter.
This is the fatal wound in the new trilogy. If the entire galaxy has reset to Empire vs Rebels within 30 years of the Rebel victory, then the good guys are simply too retarded to make a functional government. In that case rebelling is actually an immoral action, because all you're doing is creating conflict and instability in aid of nothing, because even if you win the oppressive government will persist and return.
>If the Death Star and the Empire is so retarded, the Rebel Alliance would have no problem winning the war. That the Rebel Alliance had such difficulty winning, implies that the entire fucking galaxy is so retarded a literal cartoon villain is smarter.
The Rebel Alliance had difficulty winning because the Empire had more of everything and started off as the galaxy's political hegemon. "Guy who's stronger on paper loses due to overestimating the little guy and being arrogant" isn't a Star Wars-specific conceit, nor is it unheard of in real life.
Then the Rebel Alliance looks like an utter retard because they're all
>oy vey iz mir, the Empire has A DEATH STAR!!1!
instead of, as Thrawn suggests,
>lol, the idiots have built (snerk) A DEATH STAR, they're falling right into our hands
Also, turning the Empire into millions of moronic mooks for your heroes to crush with ease takes away the thrill of danger. That's exactly the problem with nu-Star Wars, nu-MCU, nu-Ghostbusters, and everything wokeshit; there's no gravitas, you're never worried, everything will be okay, because the heroes are wisecracking every line. Nobody will die. It's a Saturday morning cartoon, kids!
>What the FUCK does a Death Star do about crime and thievery?
Terrorise people into compliance.
>you MUST be setting aside some of its productive output toward a police and government structure
The police and governor you elected aren't afraid of you, so they're secretly helping the Rebels. How now brown bantha?
>Terrorise small scale criminals and corrupt officials using your planet scale superweapon
You're a dumb moron
>The police and governor you elected aren't afraid of you
The problem is incompetence with the security forces then. Good thing you're here to bring some competent and well-thought out ideas.
>The problem is incompetence with the security forces
>My trusted planetary governors could never be the problem
You have zero clue about managing even a small organistion, let alone understanding how insurgencies work, and it shows.
Kek
See this is why (or rather one reason among many why) the EU's warlords era is the superior post-Palps scenario. The greatest downfall of the Empire after the death of the emperor becomes all the Moffs and admirals figuring they're the new boss and spending as many resources fighting each other as they do the rebellion, who have now just become one faction among many in the battle royale to see who gets to rule the galaxy.
The death star couldn't be easily taken out, it took literal space magic to do. If Luke had been delayed for a second the rebel base on Yavin would have been blown up and any hope of a successful rebellion would have been knocked back at least another 30 years if not completely hopeless after that. This was AFTER the empire had blown up one of the rebel alliance's major benefactors. The death star was a huge fucking deal and made dealing major blows to the rebellion extremely easy. Imagine the battle of Hoth just started with the death star appearing in orbit and blowing it the fuck up. It would have also made even sympathetic governors and populations even more hesitant about willingly housing rebels and getting a planetary destruction target put on their back. Hell, local populations hunting down rebs with pitchforks and torches out of fear of being blown up with them starts being likely.
Absolutely agreed.
Thus, from a narrative standpoint, either the Death Star is an actual serious ohshitwe'refucked threat, and Thrawn is just proposing an alternative that may or may not work... or the Imperials, the Rebels, the entire fucking galaxy are all utter mongs, and Thrawn is the real threat all along.
Filoni, being worse than Abrams, would of course love it to be the latter.
How much weed did you and your friend toke? Be honest.
I will forever hate nu-star wars for making order 66 be enforced by "brain chips". It took one of the more interesting aspects of the prequels, and hand waves it with "they was good boys they din mean it"
Yup
Filoni once again replacing Star Wars with his vapid dumbed-down Saturday morning kids' cartoon version
I think that's just sorta the cost of humanizing the clones as much as they did. Given the relationships some of them developed there's no way they would've gone through with it without some kind of sleeper agent type programming.
The numbers in Star Wars never made any sense.
idk I thought it was fine, TROS was forgettable garbage though
>I think that's just sorta the cost of humanizing the clones as much as they did.
They had chances to just drive a rift between the clones and the Jedi, the Pong Krell thing could have just been the start of showing how the Jedi misused their troops and threw them into the meatgrinder. The show was already making a point of the flaws within the Jedi Order with that whole arc where Ahsoka was on the run for shit she didn't do and none of them stood up for her.
If I were the writer, I'd have more shit like the Umbara campaign, except instead of the whole "oh he fell to the dark side" crap, it's just the Jedi becoming increasingly harsh and uncaring about the lives of their soldiers, either not understanding basic strategy and overruling sensible orders from clone commanders to do some retarded shit that only makes sense to them or just not seeing clones as real people but bio-droids they can sacrifice on the altar of victory. Either way, win or lose, they'd never face the consequences for failure because of bullshit space magic that only they have. You'd see increasing unrest among clones, all the while Palpatine makes himself seem like he really gives a crap about them, perhaps passing laws relating to clones like VA benefits, something that would make the clones more sympathetic and loyal to Palpatine than to the Jedi or the founding ideals of the Republic (Senate). You kinda already see the latter taking shape, the argument in the Senate about the clones is solely about them as a resource, whether they should order another batch from Kamino or not and more or less seeing them only as war machines, or just an enslaved army at best.
Thrawn's entire shtick has been the "pragmatic" Imperial commander, like how Pellaeon is the "loyal and efficient" Imperial commander and Daala is the "incompetent but the narrative treats as genius" Imperial commander. And nothing prevents the Death Star from being a genuine threat AND a pointless boondoggle tying up resources that could be better spent elsewhere.
Lmao Daala
>Waaaaa men don't respect me, I should be judged on my merits!
>Literally exist as Tarkins cum dumpster
>Given command of fleet protecting the Maw, thus proving every detractor right
>Fuck that up, in the process learn your daddy died
>get mad, lose your entire command
>stay mad, kill warlords, take their SSD and fleets to sperg out on the Jedi
>fail, this time your SSD crashes in to Yavin and the rest of your command gets yeeted in to space by an autistic clone
>later somehow become GA Chief of Staff
>sperg out on Jedi (again), fail to retain power (twice)
The character exists purely to show why women shouldn't be Admirals
>later somehow become GA Chief of Staff
I don't remember how the fuck that happened. Was is part of some Jedi fuckup that let Daala run for election on a platform of "FUCK JEDI REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"?
It's literally never explained. Everyone's all together after Jacen dies and someone (I think Han) just says "holy shit look at the TV", and it's some HoloNews showing Daala appointed Chief of State
She was retarded enough to attempt an attack on Coruscant with like four beat-up ISDs and a prayer.
>The death star couldn't be easily taken out, it took literal space magic to do.
Not to mention the main construction engineer designing a flaw into the thing.
people into compliance.
America has enough nooks to vaporize each and every one of its cities. Why do people still commit petty theft? Aren't they afraid?
They didn't glassed some country as example yet.
And they are not the only player with nooks
Because we live in a democracy, not a totalitarian regime, dipshit.
Well, I don't know about you; maybe you're from Iran, or China, where they do in fact point copious amounts of guns at their own people.
What the FUCK does a Death Star do about crime and thievery?
If you govern a planet and have it be part of the Empire, then you MUST be setting aside some of its productive output toward a police and government structure, and if you're doing that then you're already hunting rebels and subversives because they are BY DEFINITION criminals.
>The Death Star was built because it's effective according to the rules of the original Star Wars universe.
Effective doesn't mean efficient.
He is doing the new ashkoa series, which as been mostly crap, EXCEPT, the ashoka vs baylen fight.
Baylen fought like an actual western medieval knight (somewhat) and mogged the fuck out of ashoka using her pusdo eastern katana bullshit.
do you think assholka could take all of our cum at once
Obviously. I hear they store them in their head tentacles.
Disregard assholka, aquire art hoe siths.
>Changing that means literally everyone in the Star Wars universe is a retard
Uh...yes? Do you have any idea how many universes are like this? Star Wars isn't alone. Battletech, Warhammer, they all do this.
*Whoosh* was the sound of the point going over your head. None of those universes are hard sci-fi. They don't try to be hard sci-fi. They define some rules about how things work within their fictional setting for the purpose of telling a story, and then they stick to those rules. They don't re-write the rules after the fact in a way that makes every single party within the setting a retard retroactively.
Just because many companies do it doesn't mean it's right
>VII finally broke me from SW nerd debating
Same, but because simps were running around saying "if you don't like Holdo and Ep 7 YOU'RE A MISOGYNIST!!"
To be fair, a fully completed Death Star II would have solo'd everything since the one glaring weakpoint was fixed and odds are the shields would tank even the light speed bullshit attack.
It would take something with even more bullshit power like the sun crusher beat it
>Sends Kyle Katarn to blow it up
What now Impfags?
Hope the bugs can't aim.
>Send a thousand of those instead of a Death Star and they'll make that planet uninhabitable just fine
you only need like, 11 regular ISD's to base delta zero a planet over the course of a month. You wipe out the surface to making any habitation HELL for survivors, which is way more fucking metal, and you save resources within the inner crust of the planet that could actually be used. Hell, the empire actually KNOWS how to make cyclonic torpedo shit ala 40k.
It takes a month to base delta zero an unshielded planet. A shielded planet could withstand bombardment indefinetly if its generators are strong enough.
That's where tarkins idiocy comes into play. If a planet is properly shielded or has strategic value that outweighs BDZ, you have a competent and well trained elite cardre of soldiers for ground assault duties. The Stormtrooper corps flip flops way too much between being genuinely competent soldiers and bumbling idiots so you just take that whole thing down and reform it completely. Make a whole new branch within the navy for naval security and them make a force of troopers whos ONLY PURPOSE, not 'oh they can also garrison stuff, make their entire reason for existing to assault planets and stations that present significant resistance but cannot be obliterated by orbital bombardment. There's so much shit in the empire that just shouldn't work period but somehow holds itself together just enough to not crumble apart.
Plus, it's a lot cheaper to put guns on a planet than a spaceship. So any valuable planet is likely to have enough defenses to shred a BD0
>Hoth shield generator could withsta any bombardment
SW is inconsistent, at least the video games are fun.
Idk.
Never really understood why the Empire were the bad guys.
Educate yourself, the Empire is rotten to the core.
>Kuat wants more money
>Governors want bigger ships to show their status
The ships themselves are stupid memes, but the logic behind building them is sound. Bribe Kuat with lucrative contracts to keep them happy, then bribe gocernors with dreadnoughts to keep them happy.
Why do all the lucrative contracts go to Kuat anyway? I'm sick of all these Star Destroyers, we need something with more sovl.
>Make people across the galaxy scared of your big scary impractical weapons
>Feed on the negative emotions
>Something Something Dark Side something something Sith Sorcery
>Become immortal force god
>Still get eaten by the end-boss of Star Wars Legends because it got really retarded at the end
>Yuktards and Erusemendrinkers will defend this
What were the ~~*Belkan*~~ weapons designers thinking?
To be fair ASW fucking sucked in that universe for Osea to have a hard time detecting that fat noisy fuck for weeks. And when they finally cornered it, the Alicorn had 100 planes inside its hangars, railgun AA guns, CIWS, more VLS than an entire American carrier battle group as well as FUCKING FORCE FIELDS. It worked in universe and held the world hostage by the balls with SALVATION had it not for 3 strikes the boogeyman of Erusea
Erusea's entire strategy in 7 was relying on foreign wunderwaffes to win a war that they didn't even need to start. The only homegrown threat in 7 was Memehigh and his plot armor.
I struck Shilage thrice and the fucker didn't explode.
Most of his on-screen feats that aren't 'not instantly dying after first contact with Three Strikes' basically amount to using his far superior aircraft to bully women and minorities.
Something something reality follows fiction.
Remember that Michael fucking Archangelo wasn't Erusian either.
If the emperor is a magical space wizard why doesn't he help our fleets with his space magic?
If you still subscribe to Legends, he did. That's why when he died, the whole fleet at Endor got disorganized and started retreating/ breaking off to fuck around and become warlords elsewhere. In canon? Dude just gave zero fucks and just wanted everyone to suffer and live forever.
Doesn't help that either Vader or Tarkin just sent out like around 3 squadrons to deal with the fighters coming in.
>Doesn't help that either Vader or Tarkin just sent out like around 3 squadrons to deal with the fighters coming in.
NTA but I'm willing to chock that up to stylistic choices and VFX limitations. I'm sure Lucas would've loved to have a scene with hundreds of ships flying around like it was the Battle of Britain, but it'd be hard to follow the action, not to mention the amount of work it'd be to manually comp all that together.
Oh sure, irl it's both fine and makes sense. It's in universe is when you have to question on why. Also you have to wonder on how much of an assreaming Vader got after the Death Star blew up when he got picked up afterwards.
Why?
Vader wasn't in charge of the Death Star. And I don't think he made any real calls. It wasn't his job to.
He literally almost had Luke too, if not for Han's out of nowhere arrival, and I think Vader would go 'No, he LITERALLY came out of nowhere, some random cowboy in a freighter blasted me out of whack'.
I think everything can and should be placed squarely on Tarkin's shoulders. It was hubris and an unwillingness to treat his enemies as equal.
Dude was genuinely the last man alive from the Death Star. Even if blame is gonna fall on Tarkin, the fact he's the only one left is gonna lead to questions and the Empire hasn't shown itself to be particularly forgiving to it's own people. Mind, given it is Vader, he'd still just shrug off most of the blame from that. Still find it hilarious though that more than 30 plus years and near countless amount of Credits and resources spent on it, and it gets blown up once it's ready after about a month of use. Tarkin would have been fucked over spectacularly if he had somehow survived it by a very pissed off Sheev.
He probably would have gotten the most brutal public execution Palp's could have thought of.
Given that Palp's real personality is just that of a giant troll (you can tell cause when he gets into fights he just abandons all pretense of the carefully created mask he makes and just starts cackling as evil-y as he can cause he's just having the time of his life), I do feel that he had way more fun tricking the Jedi and orchestrating the clone wars and all the fuckery he did there than he did actually ruling the Empire.
His skill set is political manipulation, and he was able to use it masterfully while engineering his rise to power. Once in power, sure there were some boxes left to tick off, but it's not really the same thing.
The only thing better than Robot Chicken's version of Palpatine is elements of that characterization filtering back into regular Star Wars.
Palpatine and Vader's relationship is already pretty much picrel, probably just added another 30 minutes to their sessions for a few months as punishment.
Palpatine basically accomplished everything he'd ever dreamed of, immediately got bored and decided to spend all his new free time fucking with Vader.
Vader could have saw Han coming if he used the Force.
The Super ISD was a POS because a multicultural zoomer YouTube consumer content provider says it is. That’s literally the entirety of the argument. The fact that the Rebel navy was utterly out-fought is irrelevant because the zoomer YouTube channel doesn’t mention it. That’s the reality of how fucked up online culture is.
in the eu the empire was building up to fight the vong and honestly death stars and super star destroyers would be a good match for a world ship.
These threads used to be fun, but now it’s just Reddit
Palpatine wouldn’t have blamed Tarkin because Tarkin was fully aligned with Palp’s desires. He knew that the result of the DS1 debacle was the Light Side doing a slap-back and he thought turning Luke would cement his ultimate victory. If anything he’d blame Vader for being there and being too weak to resist it. To Palpatine the war was just the Force playing out a drama he was the director of; the normies were just actors and NPCs.
>Escape craft: 1 Scoot
Imagine escaping an exploding space station on the equivalent of a Space Vespa.
Imagine running from a Hind on a Vespa
>hurrr durr we're out of rockets what is a lazer?
In hindsight, why didn't they just run him over?
Those things are gunships that were so well designed that they BTFO air superiority fighters on Geonosis.
>What was the Emperor thinking?
He was an adherent to a fanatical religious cult whose entire philosophy can essentially be be boiled to do "unrestrained narcissism and megalomania = GOOD, moderation and humility = BAD". His regime was itself built on a mountain of lies upon lies to justify the most outrageous tyranny and economically unsustainable militarism. Palpatine's leadership style engendered a culture of paranoia, lying to save your own ass (or throat) and constant backstabbing among the lower ranks. Vader's even more so.
Much like like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union that served as the primary inspirations for it (at least in the Prequels), the Galactic Empire was a dysfunctional, internally unstable, shithole that was doomed to violently self-destruct the moment that Palpatine croaked.
>80% of its crew die to an onboard droid rebellion
None of you posted it yet? Fine, I'll post it then.
Same sort of jackasses that think SSDs are worthless act like that thing would be impossible. If they can build DS1 and DS2 the size of it wouldn't be an issue at all.
Beyond that it's got some incredible potential uses. It does Death Star stuff without being a giant ball and can actively carry it's own support fleet. If I'm remembering the original designer's story right it was also explicitly designed with trans-galactic travel in mind. This thing was primarily supposed to travel to a neighboring galaxy with enough men and firepower for there to immediately be a considerable Imperial presence expanding the Empire beyond being most of a single galaxy.
>expanding the Empire beyond being most of a single galaxy
damn
what's that on the Kardashev scale?
>can actively carry it's own support fleet
I think the Death Star can fit a Star Destroyer or five
Still not even K2 since we've never seen a dyson sphere or swarm in canon Star Wars. The setting is fantasy. Don't bring any science within a mile of it or you will catch aids.
Personally I'd put them at least a type II which definitely isn't a KS tier that is new to the galaxy. The Death Star wasn't really meant to be carrying an actual fleet. Couldn't go anywhere an escort fleet couldn't and would never really be out of easy supply range. Don't really need to carry a fleet if ships can regularly and quickly rotate in and out for escort duty under their own power.
Could swear a lot of shipping is unmanned and automated. The CIS was also mostly "unmanned". If a B-1 can do it just about any droid brain can. They shit on old lore with that. There's at least one occasion of hyperspace ramming being tried, funny enough against an SSD. It didn't work.
Honestly it might be easier to go to the neighboring galaxy. The unknown regions are so hard to explore because hyperspace gets fucky. Imagine EVERYWHERE being equivalent to the pre-Disney Kessel run in difficulty. Even spamming automated probes which has been done for at least 20k years. Trying to find safe hyperspace routes through is a bitch.
The reactor in an ISD is capable of putting out more energy than a star. The Rakata "Infinite Empire" was K2 tens of thousands of years before the Empire existed with their Star Forge. Type 2 isn't remotely new to the galaxy. Type two doesn't require dyson spheres, it requires harvesting energy directly from a star which is basically unnecessary by the time of the Empire. Directly harvesting mass to make things like giant fleets and armies (like the Star Forge did) is lost technology.
>which is basically unnecessary by the time of the Empire
Thank you for reiterating my point that it's a fucking fantasy setting. Enjoy your HIV, gay.
>REEEEEE
>The unknown regions are so hard to explore because hyperspace gets fucky. Imagine EVERYWHERE being equivalent to the pre-Disney Kessel run in difficulty. Even spamming automated probes which has been done for at least 20k years. Trying to find safe hyperspace routes through is a bitch.
Or another civ that is equal or greater than.
The Chiss Ascendancy is there but it's just the nature of the area not some super secret other empire doing shit to a huge chunk of the galaxy. The Chiss at least have a leg up because they live in that shitshow and had to figure it out early. In a fight without the hyperspace crap the Empire would shitstomp the Chiss.
High II, Same as humanity in Xenosaga/Gears and Foundation
Maybe the Empire should explore the unknown regions before it opens up a whole new galaxy. They don't even control half the galaxy.
Anything bigger than Bellator is a meme
BLOODY NERFCHOD RASCALS REBELHOMO TRY TO DESTABILIZE EMPIRE 80 REBEL SHIPS DESTROYED AT YAVIN VS JUST THREE EMPIRE VESSELS
I just had an internet debate with a friend on discord about the Death Star a few nights ago. His opinion was pretty much "if the Death Star was real, all rebels would just surrender because they have no answer to it" whereas I was of the opinion that the Death Star
-did nothing to solve any of the Empire's actual problems relating to governance
-was itself the product of militarism that was completely economically unsustainable
-the very fact that the Death Star was built at all is proof that Palpatine's grip on power was slipping even before the events of the main trilogy.
Construction of the death star predates the fall of the rebellion.
Guess I forgot that part from Attack of the Clones. Still, the CIS conceptualized it when they were anticipating a total war for galactic domination against the larger Old Republic, where a wunderwaffe like the Death Star both makes sense and could potentially make the difference between victory and total annihilation. It wouldn't make sense to build it AFTER your side has already won and ruled the galaxy undisputed though. That is unless your stranglehold over the galaxy was already starting to slip...
>How much weed did you and your friend toke? Be honest.
A couple of blunts and some mixed drinks.
At the end of RotS Vader stands on a bridge looking at the skeleton of the Death Star being built. The Clone Wars weren't even finished before they started building the fucking thing.
>Death Star being built
To me, Robot Chicken starwars is canon.
I mean, the Death Star was already started by the CIS beforehand. Papa Palps just kept it chugging along because he thought it was neat. Ultimately the design came from the Geonosians, so you can blame them for that.
I wonder why FTL kamikaze drones aren't a thing in Star wars.
Just take the smallest commercially available FTL engine and strap some space age AI core to it.
This stunt proves that space ships are obsolete in Star wars.
Since you'd need to bend space time to make jumps, a sensor for changes in gravitation could serve as warning system.
The future of Star Wars fleet combat is hyperspace suicide droid swarms trying to find and stop mid-sized Cruisers armed exclusively with super lasers from getting into range of their planets.
Because that's not how hyperspace works. If it did, the OT would have just been Dr. Strangelove with hyperspace kill vehicles instead of nukes. Disney are retards who don't understand how Star Wars works.
It took a three kilometre long ship with unusually powerful shields to do anything to the Supremacy, and it didn't even destroy it outright. Anything smaller would just bounce off.
>find some small asteroid
>strap hyperdrive on it
>...
>you won space
>find asteroid
>slap engines on it
>now you have to slap a power plant on it to power the engines
>now you need shields to prevent it from being torn up by anything in its path as it reaches relativistic speeds
>now you need sensors so it can accurately track moving targets
>now you need to ensure it has enough structural integrity and shielding to not immediately eat shit when it hits an interdiction field
>and since it is in realspace the whole time you're going to need to protect it from preemptive attacks
So with just a supply of sufficently dense and sizeable asteroids and the ability to construct about 40% of Star Destroyer, you too can have a single use weapon that failed to sufficiently cripple a large space station, assuming they even reach their target given all the things that can stop them.
>it was a special magic asteroid strong in the force
>Inshallah, the rebellion will defeat the great space satan
>MANDALORIAN asteroids! Made of MANDALORIAN regolith!
So with just a supply of sufficently dense and sizeable asteroids and the ability to construct about 40% of Star Destroyer,
So I can take out an SD for something that's only 40% the cost? That's a bargain.
Either the kamikaze was dumb which means the holdo is just a sucidal idiot that did nothing beyond kill her self or it's effective in which case everyone should have been doing it all ready.
First you have to be able to build 40% of SD consistently and have a supply of suitable asteroids. Large-scale industrial production is rather centralized in SW, with only a few planets and consortiums capable of mass manufacture of larger starships. On top of that your hyperspace rams are specific purpose weapons, they lack any sort of flexibility in tactical or strategic use. They'd be functionally closer to ICBMs than anything. Sure, I can get two SD killer weapons for the price of one SD, but I don't get the benefits of a mobile forward operating base, expeditionary force, or planetary garrison from a rock and 40% of a SD. The Galactic Empire, with all its bloated MIC, was only able to field 25,000 SD, so that means you only need enough industrial capacity to build 25,000 partially completed SDs to take them all out.
The industrial infrastructure isn't really compatible. The death star used dedicated industry and to a large degree bespoke parts.
Yes the metal could be used for ISDs but many other components of the station wouldn't be compatible. It didn't use dock space, it didn't use the same engines and it didn't utilise the same competence in its construction.
Massive amounts of resources we're dedicated to the project but those resources couldn't translate 1 to 1 in resources invested into ISDs.
You would have to massively expand the industrial complex dedicated to ISD production and manning.
As this guy said the DS is a massive infrastructure project and not a gigantic naval procurement effort. They hired civil engineers and not naval architects to make the power system ffs.
>this entire thread
>not knowing the entire Imperial MIC was just gearing up for the Vong
Fucking lorelets I swear.
>Disney
Fuck Disney, everything their IP isn't canon.
The Vong were almost as bad as Disney.
>le edgy painworshipers who are immune to the Force
>thinking the vong were bad
Child, hush.
bro, I read some of the books when they came out. The fact they needed to kick off the Vong with killing Chewie by dropping a literal moon on him should tell you all you need to know about the series. The good Star Wars books were things like the X-Wing/Rogue Squadron series, not galactic level powerwank with a completely new OC faction but exploring what the servicemen of the Rebellion and later New Republic faced in the remnants of the Empire.
>killing characters is bad
>new things is bad
Child, hush.
>I want to write about edgy BDSM fetishist OCs
>should I make my own universe?
>or should I just slam it into Star Wars like some bad fan fiction despite them never being so much as thought of in the preceding half a century of media?
The irony of you complaining about Disney raping the lore is palatable.
Killing Chewbacca was supposed to signify that no character was safe, IIRC more OT characters were supposed to die so the NJO ones could fill their place. Unfortunately, the pushback to Chewie going was so extreme they just gave every OT character retarded levels of plot armor and kept NJO kiddies sidelined, which led to the utter retardation that was the Dark Nest and Legacy serieses.
I cringed a lot reading Dark Nest, but I'd read it and more like it a dozen times over if I could get a timeline where the Mouse never made their sequels. The EU had a lot of fucking pants on head moments, I'm looking at you Luke clones, but I don't think any of them were that bad compared to what Disney has done.
I largely enjoyed the EU, minus the one off bits like LUUUKE. I really feel chucking the original NJO idea of knocking off characters wrote themselves in to a corner.
Galaxy wide war that killed trillions....you don't really top that. So they tried with the Dark Nest, but that wasn't super popular so they reverted to rehashed GW2 with Jacen being an angry tard like his grandpa, then space Devil? Whatever the fuck Abeloth was.
I wish I could find it, but I read an interview with Stackpole, Allston, and a couple other NJO authors. Basically, the backlash from Chewie caused a replan of everything after Rebirth. IIRC Jacen was originally going to die in Star by Star, Han bites it at some point, a lot of older characters die with Anakin taking over to lead everyone to victory and eventually succeed Luke. Following NJO is it was supposed to go back to single novels/duologies, one bit was Anakin and Tahiri exploring the Unknown Regions (which was adapted to Survivors Quest), and something with Jaina and Jagggggg.
I'll still reread the entire EU at least once a year though.
It's been years since I read any of the EU books and I'm still kind of mad that I'm not going to get to read Sword of the Jedi. I also kind of wanted to see what the fallout would be between Ben and his Sith GF.
The Vong were the worst shit in the EU by far, nothing in Disney Wars has ever come close to how awful NJO was and anybody who says otherwise is either deluding themselves or being a contrarian out of butthurt for disney shitcanning the EU
I'd rather have the Dovin Basal problem than the diversity hire/girl boss/prank call the enemy fleet commander problem.
Hyping up a big threat to escalate stakes is different from the hyperspace ram, which was a thoughtless and frankly unnecessary plot device.
The Vong being "overpowered" is not the same as destroying the premise of all previous space warfare in the setting.
but the vong literally do just that you colossal hypocrite
No they're new you fucking mongoloid. Concession accepted
The "premise of all previous space warfare in the setting" is just bullshit people reverse engineered to try to justify ww2 planes in space. People only hem and haw about lightspeed ramming because they didn't like the movie. If they liked the movie then they'd just make up some convoluted fake science bullshit to justify it like with the kessel run.
Nta, I didn't like the movie because of that scene, it was so obviously jumping the shark.
It was just a shit fucking scene in pretty much every single aspect except for perhaps the quality of the CGI. Even if we just ignore the implications of opening the FTL kill vehicle can of worms, the scene boils down to:
>here's this good for nothing cunt of an "admiral" who has done everything wrong this entire film
>pure political position. Basically the worst possible commanding officer in any multiverse
>but we should celebrate her because of this one asspull.
>most of her faction is still dead
Don't forget the smug "I know better than you, stop trying to help defeat our enemies, just do nothing and trust me" lead up for 30 minutes beforehand.
Also the bullshit "you should be thankful that we don't courtmartial you for succeeding in your impossible mission instead of succeeding with zero casualties" bullshit.
Someone pointed out that the bullshit in TLJ and the sequels in general is the result of these films being made by people who have zero familiarity with or knowledge of the military past the shallowest things.
If that's the one scene that soured the whole thing for you, I guess I don't have a retort. I do have to wonder how you can tolerate any of the space battles in star wars though if that's a bridge too far.
Because most space battles bend the existing verisimilitude, not shatter into pieces.
The movie isn't great otherwise, but the whole scene reeks of Mary Sue meets "over 9000"
How many fucking times do people have to explain to you that the space battles in star wars were intended to be "WWII naval battles IN SPACE" and that the capabilities of the warships were deliberately kept restricted in manners that contrived to force them into "WWII naval battles" in space, and that the reason why introducing relativistic kill vehicles into the setting via a simple hyperdrive is dumb is because it completely undermines the ENTIRE FUCKING PREMISE OF WWII NAVAL BATTLES IN SPACE?!?!
All you're saying is that instead of the schlock you like, you got schlock you didn't like. Both are cases of reality subsuming itself to the whims of the narrative and both cause logical inconsistencies. You're just more willing to forgive and imagine justifications for one than the other.
Not him but yes
I walk into a Star Trek movie expecting Star Trek logic
I read a Harry Potter book expecting Harry Potter logic
I watch Saving Private Ryan expecting Saving Private Ryan logic
I watch Strike Witches expecting Strike Witches logic
I DO NOT WANT TO WALK INTO A STAR WARS MOVIE AND BE SERVED POWERPUFF GIRLS LOGIC
But Star Wars logic is just "Anything is possible so long as the plot demands it". I don't think the lightspeed ram was good, but it's not for some scientific or or consistency reason. That's not how Star Wars works and it's annoying when people try to use that angle. It's bad because the admiral was a just some random woman who showed up out of nowhere, was a bitch, got everyone killed, and was barely a character. Giving her the big heroic moment makes no sense emotionally, and that's why that scene sucked.
>Anything is possible so long as the plot demands it
Nope
That's not at all how the original was, there was an implicit, deduceable set of rules, even if they weren't explicitly laid out
That's why you get people falling over themselves on Spacebattles trying to explain Star Trek and Star Wars shit - because they are consistent
>consistency
This is everything
You've heard of "plot holes" obviously. Holes in what? If everything happens "just because", there's no fabric for there to be holes in. Just BECAUSE, dude.
Answer is: yes, there is in fact a required consistency in every plot, even if it's fiction
This is one of the foundational pillars of fiction: you have to have a set of rules in your universe, and you have to get the viewer to accept it
We all know Saving Private Ryan is ridiculous and reality didn't work that way
Captain Tom Hanks and his band of misfits didn't mow down a battalion of panzergrenadiers saving one rando
But we accept the Hollywood WW2 illusion, because we are
>willing to forgive and imagine justifications for
This particular setting
We accept this particular reality and this particular logical inconsistency
What we cannot, deep in our hearts, accept is SUDDENLY AN X-WING APPEARED AND RICK AND MORTY FUCKING ZAPPED THAT TIGER TANK BEFORE IT COULD KILL RYAN AND CAPTAIN HANKS
That shit flies in another setting: Rick and Morty, Robot Chicken, or that Peter Stewie horseshit cartoon I can't remember the name of.
It does NOT fly in Star Wars.
And not just the Holdo Manoeuvre, but tons of bullshit in the Sequels breaks that narrative
Most people can't explain it other than "eww that sucked" or "meh I can't get into it". Writers can.
>It's bad because the admiral was a just some random woman who showed up out of nowhere, was a bitch, got everyone killed, and was barely a character. Giving her the big heroic moment makes no sense emotionally, and that's why that scene sucked.
P.s. this also
You're describing inconsistency in character building.
Holdo was a bitch for so long of the movie and behaved so far out of the norm even for a boss hiding a secret plan up her ass, that audiences refused to accept her "reveal"
They had bought too much into hating her already
This is a big problem many authors have faced with other media e.g. Maze Runner, Harry Potter
(We don't have the same problem with Darth Vader because he's not SECRETLY GOOD ALL ALONG, he is a genuine villain who turned. There's a big difference.)
However you're focusing on CHARACTER consistency. There's also setting consistency and plot consistency, and that's what other people here are focusing on because it's the stupidest and most egregious of all, ie the Holdo Ram.
>Lightspeed ram bad
>Navy good even though they don't have any competition besides criminal thugs and people printing out leaflets with mean things on them
Dovin basals are countered by Death Stars, idiot.
I'm tired of nuStar Wars apologists.
IIRC, Dovin basals were countered by lots of small rocks from star wars style ultra-dense asteroid fields because activating the dovin basal for usage as a shield to black hole incoming fire would attract rocks which would require activating the basal to black hole the rocks to protect you from the rocks, which would in turn attract more rocks. Repeat until the basal gets tired, fucks up, and gets smashed by rocks.
A shame that the protagonists were too dumb to start adopting flak weapons.
They had already adapted fighter and capital ship weapons to defeat them by like the 3rd book, so pretty fucking quick.
The New Republic got it's shit pushed in 100% due to infighting, and repeatedly being incapable to follow up on victories or opportunities
>Borsk the Bothan, previously discredited retard and current Chief of State, denies the Vongs existence and accuses Leia of just trying to take back power and does so until the Vong make it Mid Rim and Ithor burns
>STILL refuses to really address the threat, instead just throws task forces here and there
>Empire of the Hand show up to offer assistance, throws a fucking temper tantrum because Jagged Fel didn't immediately suck his dick
>Jedi and NRI repeatedly warn of incursions and are ignored, accused of trying to gain power/"muh human supremacists"
>Meanwhile, non human governments like Duro repeatedly betray and backstab the New Republic (honorary mention to the Peace Brigade gays)
>Vong come aknockin at Coruscant's door, STILL can't agree on a unified approach and have multiple fleets under Bel Iblis, Wedge, and someone else doing whatever the fuck
>Planetary defenses do fuck all because the Vong use refugee ships as shields, and Bel Iblis is the only one with the balls to open fire anyway
It isn't until Borsk an heroes with a nuke, and most of the Senate is wiped out, that the Galactic Alliance (formally New Republic) starts making consistent gains. Coincidentally, most of the (non human) Senate going bye allows the (mostly human) military command to do their jobs proper.
Unironically the Empire would have faired way better because first and foremost they would have presented a unified, strategic response.
The Anakin stuff after that was fun tho
I dislike the Vong just like I dislike Jar-Jar. But in light of how the Mouse has handled the setting, the Vong and Jar-Jar look like classic masterpiece inclusions of the setting.
>This bro thinking that Palps even cared about that shit
That shit was just postulated by some random Imp Remnant officer during the Vong War and he got refuted by Han, remember this is the same guy who had made a fuckton of superweapons that he just left out in the open, like the fucking Eye of Palpatine.
We're all fully aware of the Vong and rightfully choose to ignore it. The Vong are fucking gay and the notion that Palpatine was totally just a necessary evil you guyz is even more gay.
Recall reading Lucas had an idea for this, but it was going to be a machine race.
Problem was Frank Herbert died before he could conclude his series and Lucas couldn't get "inspired" by it.
I liked the supremacy as a concept.
The First Order should have been a nomadic army with no worlds that raids the new republic for resources and manpower. Also their new quality>quantity philosophy was kinda interesting.
It's just such a shame they were turned into brain-dead retards and none of these concepts were ever explored
Forgot pic
it was probably made by the one white dude who liked Star Wars before he got purged
>can dock star destroyers
My diiiicccckkkkkkk
>What is the color of prototype SD's?
Titanium White
>What wing got cut through by Admiral Old Ho?
The right wing
>How many SD's where destroyed in the wake?
14
>You got to be fucking kidding me?
And they were part of the 88th battle group.
That's what you get for building wide instead of tall
Should've been a Homeworld kind of situation where this thing is sucking up asteroids and building entire fleets for itself.
Meet the World Devastators
>mogs execoutor and deathstar
>gets stolen by viggo mortensen
>Clone Wars
VGH prbly the last time galaxy experienced kino of warfare and weapon/ship innovation, now everything is just gay triangles
>Inb4 mon calamari ships
Nebula mass replacement soon
moron the Republic used grey triangles.
They could have built 1000+ star destroyers, but they built this piece of shit instead? This is where my tax dollars are going? I heard from a buddy that the whole thing was destroyed by one torpedo from some Dantooine kid as well, what a piece of shit.
That's a lie. The Death Star was not destroyed by torpedoes.
Learn the truth here.
Was it the ~~*Nemoidians*~~?
Ep. VII finally broke me from SW nerd debating. Stardestroyer, Space Battles, you know those forums. What did it was the scene of the space bombers dropping gravity bombs on another spaceship. "T-the writers a-and directors too…it’s a ww2 story to them…?" How could a nerd POSSIBLY debate this? Gravity bombing space combat is canon now, it’s utterly untenable. You simply can’t continue.
The grav field (the same field that makes it so you can walk normally on a ship as if you were on a planet) draws the bombs towards the ships. The bombers reverse said grav field in the bomb bay to push the bombs out.
(idk its just an interesting lore problem i guess)
The original trilogy did the stupid "gravity bombing in space" thing in Empire Strikes back when the Tie Bombers were bombarding the asteroids in an attempt to flush out the Falcon. The difference is that they played everything with a straight face in the OT while everything is a fucking joke in the mouse movies which makes everything just look dumb and breaks any suspension of disbelief that you might have.
In the original trilogy, the Empire was portrayed as being competent and professional. While the viewers in the audience can notice and critique strategic and tactical blunders that the Empire makes such as the impracticality of their super weapons or the laughable state of stormtrooper marksmanship, everyone within the setting treats the super weapons as if they're serious business and that the stormtroopers are highly trained and professional soldiers. It's a bit like gaslighting and we can suspend disbelief and play along with stupid and impractical things so long as the cast is putting on a good show and is being serious about everything the whole time. But everything just sticks out like a sore thumb if the writing is dogshit. We can forgive gravity bombing in space when the protagonists treat it like a serious threat as they take shelter and work towards formulating some kind of masterful plan to outwit the Empire's Elite. It just looks dumb as fuck as part of some excuse to squeeze prank phone calls into the film and to paradoxically dress down one of the main characters for the crime of succeeding at a suicide mission that should have had a 0% chance of success.
Say what you will about nu-wars, rogue ones use of models with cgi effects was fucking based.
>Say what you will about nu-wars, rogue one
>was fucking based
Critical Drinker's analysis is spot on
>Cowboys & Aliens
Everyone hated it but I recall thinking it was alright, for its goofy premise
Perhaps I should give it a rewatch
If only for Olivia Wilde
>he was a space Fudd who believed in the Oradour-sur-Glane approach to home/imperial defense
Look it up
>Olivia Wilde
Honestly, that's why I watched it on the plane to begin with.
This. Rogue One is absolute kino. I wanna go back 7 years ago and be around the hype for its release again
Basically the mouse movies are dogshit because the antagonists are dogshit. The scripts were written by incompetent fucks who don't know the first thing about writing a story. Good heroes are defined by their villains and you can't have an impressive hero without having an impressive villain for them to overcome. The Empire, Darth Vader, and the Emperor were all written as being serious adversaries that the Rebellion took deadly seriously. In contrast the protagonists can't look impressive standing against the antagonists of the Mouse films since they were all fucking jokes. I don't even remember their fucking names. We had not-Ben Solo who was a childish character with anger issues, General whatshisname who couldn't go five minutes without being the butt of a joke, not-Emperor Snorkel who died pathetically, Chrome trooper who also just died, and then somehow the Emperor returned. We could never take the antagonists seriously amidst all of the yo-mama jokes or Girl-Boss moments. They tried to make the antagonists scary by letting them pull super weapons and fleets out of their ass, but they were always treated like buffoons by the cast.
>you can't have an impressive hero without having an impressive villain for them to overcome
I think thats why Lord Baylen works.
Here is a good video on why the nu-Empire just doesn't have the same feel.
Turning the villains into the butt of a joke was just one of the biggest mistakes that they could make. Right behind all of the "force is female" bullshit.
Another scene that sticks out is from one of the disney+ series where some old smuggler guy dabs on some kind of interdictor cruiser that has him locked in a tractor beam by releasing a bunch of garbage from the back of his ship that smashes into the tractor beam array and destroys it. Plebbit gobbled it up and sucked off each others' dicks about how it was so cool and smart to just use the tractor beam against itself like that and that the villains were dumb for using the tactic in the first place. But the whole scene was retarded and reeked of the writers not doing their homework because ships in star wars are shielded and particle shields that protect against micrometeorites and space garbage are civilian commercial level tech. A warship with a fuck-huge tractor beam array wouldn't be vulnerable to assorted bits of space trash getting caught in the beam since it would be protected from stuff like that by design. The centerpiece of an entire warship is going to be protected from outright weapons fire, much less bits of space trash.
>The difference is that they played everything with a straight face in the OT while everything is a fucking joke in the mouse movies which makes everything just look dumb and breaks any suspension of disbelief that you might have.
This. Years ago there was a movie called Cowboys & Aliens (which also starred Harrison Ford). By name alone, the premise sounds silly, but the movie was actually decent because they played everything as straight as possible.
They used magnetic rails to drop the bombs out, but it's still a fucking dumb deployment strategy. How is a bomber that cumbersome supposed to live long enough to get over a target? The scene should've been based around multi-crew 'torpedo boats' charging in and letting loose a brace of heavy missiles.
Dreadnought cruiser > SD shit
I liked the Last Order dreadnaught commander. It’s like he suddenly realized his lifetime of hard campaigning was going to end in a slapstick comedy show.
How many super atar destroyers could the empire have constructed and manned for one death star?
Hell how many regular star destroyers for that matter?
Also why were they retarded enough to get rid of the fighter carrier type star destroyers with basically nothing to replace it?
>Wunderwaffe
>Just some big boom shit
For me, it's CIS Shadowblade
The Rebels get the rope. The Empire was the answer the Galaxy needed.
Reminder the New Republic was such a shitshow it devolved into infighting within 10 years. A fucking Imperial Grand Admiral ended up as Chancellor, got slapped by the Vong, lost the Second Galactic Civil War and fucking Leia's (peak republican) kid ended up as the Empress Consort of the Fel Empire.
The Empire probably would've been bitch slapped by the Vong just as hard as the New Republic was. Despite the Vong not really being affected by the Force, Jedi were still the best warriors to fight them 1v1 just because of how powerful a Vong warrior was.
The republic lasted for 25,000 years and saw the greatest prosperity and peace the galaxy has ever known. The empire couldn't even make it a full generation before it shattered.
>25,000 years
This is what I hate most about Star Wars.
The Empire lasted like 25 years and spent all its time being cunts to people for no reason.
>A few million credits get stolen in the ass-end of nowhere
>Spergs out and immediately doubles the prison sentences of every inmate in the galaxy
I AM curious how the Empire was going to face the Vong. Palpatine was WHOLLY dedicated to the Force, facing a threat which resisted the Force might have been an OCP for him. I’m sure he’d disappear for a while to consult ancient Sith ghosts, do big Force rituals, etc while Vader ran around like crazy trying to keep things together.
As emphasised in the first star wars movie, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
That makes it really hard to give a shit about something like TIE fighters upgrading to TIE interceptors.
Not to detract too much from the setting of the discussion but in real world terms the death star was comparable to a wonder weapon like the nuclear bomb. But so far in human history only the USA has been able to pull off that feat of revolutionizing war with a super weapon. For most other war related nuance it's usually a matter of economy of scale and production that wins wars.
>belligerent worlds with large sector defense fleets and planetary shields are are funneling ships and resources to an insurrection that can strike with impunity anywhere in the galaxy
>even at the height of the Empire with a peacekeeping force of 32,000 capital ships only one or two worlds could be properly sieged at a time without leaving entire sectors vulnerable
The Death Star and SSDs were supposed to be the final solution to the intractable problem of space siege warfare and policing the hyperspace lanes. The Death Star eliminated costly planetary sieges and a SSD was a singular blocking element that could prevent a hostile sector fleet from striking elsewhere by camping on the major hyperspace lanes.
the Executor returned to Kuat Drive Yards under its own power.