Here to discuss Electrically Primed and otherwise Initiated Ammo theories, ideas, implementations and otherwise.
Electrically Initiated Ammunition
Here to discuss Electrically Primed and otherwise Initiated Ammo theories, ideas, implementations and otherwise.
This technology aims to replace traditional mechanical firing systems with electronic means of igniting the propellant charge. Instead of relying on a firing pin or hammer, electronically primed ammunition utilizes an electric current to generate heat or sparks, which then initiates the ignition of the propellant.
>Some incel shut in is gonna dome me with a 3D printed gun with an electronic Vape replacing the firing pin
Great, more shit I gotta worry about.
>t. Abe's ghost
>Black person with a glock fires at me and I run away
>think I'm safe back on campus
>about to call 911 to get help with my wounded leg
>incel spree shooter with his 3D printed vape gun finishes me off
English cigarette slang.
interdasting
The only way this would ever catch on is if it was as reliable as physical mechanisms OR if rail guns become commonplace (not likely any time soon lol.) I suppose I could see it for 3d printed guns or similar just to save manufacturing/complication?
Electrically ignited black powder guns forever destroy all noguns arguments about "not having access to firearms".
It really is the final frontier of making guns completely DIY, including ammunition.
Thank you anon for making my day by posting one of my projects here.
t. Electric vape pirate
Your project sparked off a true moment of curiosity in my head and kicked off a lot of reading and looking up past projects in areas well outside of my expertise. Thank you for sharing!
You gain some, you lose some with current implementations and ideas.
Potentially you have higher reliability due to less moving parts and less mechanical wear and tear, and perhaps in the later iterations, more consistency in ignition.
The firearm designs could change quite dramatically when you take out the firing mechanisms, kind of how electric cars allow some flexibility versus ICE cars. And you have less lead released into your lungs and the environment.
Some ongoing issues would be things like power source, whether micro batteries of capacitors. reliability of the electronic parts, cost obviously, and what the government would do in integrating it within their "Smart Gun" agenda.
Piezoelectrically ignited muzzleloading black powder guns sounds fun imo
Check out Part 1 and Part 2 of this awesome DIY example:
So for the electric ignition mechanisms, you're either going to be using resistance heating, or sparks. Right now in the fosscad community, the primary choice is Nichrome, usually with a similar setup as a Vape circuit. Heats up fast due to the high resistance, can melt so you can actually make it part of the ammunition potentially, and it can handle high temps.
Other options would be like Tungsten, Kanthal, Manganin, and some Carbon-based materials.
>can melt so you can actually make it part of the ammunition potentially
Don't you want your shell to have the least amount of parts possible?
I'd assume that what you want is something that can fire reloaded 9mm with spent primer and slight modifications to the casing
>reload spent 9mm casings
Stop thinking like an American. People in the Netherlands or whatever can't just go to the local shooting range and collect a bunch of spent casings.
Get fricked Euro. I'm not going to stop and consider whst it's like to be you because we're the only culturally relevant country in the world. You're speaking my language right now, not the other way around.
CAPTCHA: DOW ASS
😀
>verification not required
The whole point is to make a system that doesn't rely on any traditional setups. This way you could do the whole thing DIY.
would a sparkplug work?
Yes, that's what existing designs use, like some shown in this thread such as the CVA Electra, as well as the one fosscad/3D printed design in the works, they are muzzle-loading designs with a sparkplug for the breech plug
how large do the sparkplugs need to be to actually ignite the powder? Could you make something like a revolver that uses electronic ignition?
Usually not very large, about the size of what you see on those arc lighters, about the size of the average breech plug. The revolver would have to be designed around this, but there's nothing in theory that stops this from being viable aside from electronics and spark plug reliability and durability.
few questions:
>how many rounds can be fired until the plug is fouled?
>how aren't you electrocuting yourself/charging the entire metal parts of the gun.
also you'd need a field-strippable way to replace the sparkplug and battery.
also how are you operating the gun? As in if you have a gas-operated gun, are you then pushing the sparkplug back like a bolt? Would this work with a traditional cartridge case without primer?
>how many rounds can be fired until the plug is fouled?
I suppose that depends on the type of cartridge/powder being ignited, but with black powder muzzle loading examples, it was every 10-30 rounds that you pushed a brush into the barrel and just dusted/wiped it, then a proper cleaning every 100 rounds.
>how aren't you electrocuting yourself/charging the entire metal parts of the gun.
This is mostly trivial, we've more or less perfected proper grounding and isolation for circuits this simple, but I suppose it is a risk that needs to be taken into account when designing such a thing.
>also you'd need a field-strippable way to replace the sparkplug and battery.
Yes, the spark plug would need to be easily screwed out like a normal breech plug and be replaceable/serviceable. The battery replacement seems trivial as well in existing designs using 9V lithium batteries.
>also how are you operating the gun? As in if you have a gas-operated gun, are you then pushing the sparkplug back like a bolt? Would this work with a traditional cartridge case without primer?
That, I don't know. I can't quite figure out how an autoloader would work with this yet. A gas-operated design doesn't really benefit from an electrical ignition in my mind, though it may benefit from an electrical trigger.
The most high profile use of such a thing was this cyberpunk muzzleloader used to kill Abe of course. Well, not this one, but a much smaller version of this.
It's legit the perfect assassin's tool you could make in japan.
>home made - not traceable
>shotgun - fires a spray of pellets increasing risk of serious injury
>Looks weird - people don't know how to react giving you seconds.
>Looks weird - people don't know how to react
if the zoomie had watched The Bodyguard (the Whitney Houston one) he'd have bought himself a couple more seconds
still, job done
Based vet getting revenge on the cult that pauperized his mom
He is a mentally ill schizo, just like his stupid mother, and should have never been born. At least his shitty cursed bloodline will finally come to an end. God bless Abe.
Being killed in a novel way will immortalize Shinzo.
All that really matters is that his death proves a very important point that shuts up noguns gays.
Who are we kidding, noguns gays will never shut up.
But at least with an electrically ignited primer system, they too can become hasgun gays.
The fact is that millions of do-nothings use America as a kind of get out of responsibility free card. "America is the ones with the guns, it's their job to fight back, it's not my job to get a gun". All they do, day in and day out is post demoralization about Americans not throwing off the shackles of homosexualry and staging a violent revolution, and this makes them feel better about themselves.
I've seen a marked increase in their shutting-the-frick-up since I've started posting electro-muskets every time they b***h about Americans not using their guns. At least 15%.
I believe it. And now, between Bambu 3D printer clones, and electro-muskets being feasible, it really is getting close to foolproof to make a gun and have it fire even by somebody with 80 IQ. Less and less excuses to being noguns.
>post demoralization about Americans not throwing off the shackles of homosexualry and staging a violent revolution
The type of people who demand someone else start a revolution without participating themselves are also the type who definitely do not get what they want out of the revolution, assuming they even survive it.
It's true for any kind of person who expects somebody else to fulfill their desires for them, or the kind of person who always says they're "gonna" do something, rather than having already done it or in the process of. "We Can't Expect God to Do All the Work", but we also can't expect others to do the work for us either.
Electronic ignition is a solution in search of a problem.
So far the only use case I've seen is in competition bench rifles where you want to minimize any moving parts in the receiver.
>shoots you with a 3D printed gun with electronic ignition
>slips into the shadows as this is an untraceable gun that officially doesn't exist
>destroy the only copy which severs any link I have to the crime
>laugh as I walk away
Heh. Nothing personal kid.
The problem already exists: Primers are difficult if not impossible to make for the average gun enthusiast. Only like two corporations in the US make the priming explosive powder used in them, and it is extremely toxic and difficult to acquire the base materials for the average consumer. Primer bans or shortage is an easy way to limit ammunition use and a backdoor to severe gun control. This may not be the case in the US, but step outside of that frame of reference, and electric-fired ammunition or primers will start to make a lot of sense.
Larger artillery pieces already by and large use electric priming, the primers are a separate component, they put it behind the main propellant, and then apply an electric charge to it to fire. This really is a problem of scaling down and making it usable and reliable, even if it is just for single shots.
you got a matchbox? cool you can now make the priming compound and its not extremely toxic.
however its corrosive which is why no company today uses it and instead opted for lead azide or some shit.
Holy frick, anon, no. Where did you even get that idea?
Well son of a b***h.
TKOR was based. RIP. A lot of these cool DIY videos were taken down though, this one's a reupload.
For an interesting read, these have some information on primer composition and actual forming of the primer cup and anvil. I haven't seen many hobbyists go beyond reloading primers, but I imagine that a set of punches and single-stage dies could be created with hand tools, brass sheet, and minimal hardwear.
https://www.aardvarkreloading.com/resources/homemadeprimercourse.pdf https://ia804700.us.archive.org/21/items/AmmunitionMakingNRAByG.Frost1990/Ammunition%20Making-NRA%20%20by%20G.%20Frost-%281990%29%20_text.pdf
Thank you, this is most helpful. I imagine if there's a will, a set of primer making tools can be formed when the need arises among a group of 5-10 men easily supplying a whole community.
>Electronic ignition is a solution in search of a problem.
moronic statement. People who don't live in America do not have an easy time sourcing ammunition or even spent shells without getting visited by the cops. Electric ignition makes a lot of sense because it can reduce the amount of kitchen chemistry that the user has to do try to create primers for DIY shells or whatever.
One idea I've had would be to make a sort of hybrid electrically initiated shell design. The shell would be packed like a normal shell, but instead of a primer it would have some terminals in the base that would meet up with terminals in the breech for electric power. The idea here would be to make it easier to reload and keep the terminals in the actual gun largely free of fouling so you could get a higher volume of fire.
Yes, this makes a lot of sense, essentially an internal primer still, but instead of impact-initiated, you have it electrically ignited, simplifies the design a lot too, and you don't have to replace the ignition part like many current designs have (where they essentially replace the tiny nichrome every shot).
M50 20mm already have internal/integral electric priming, activated with an electric discharge from the breach, this way you control the moment of cartridge ignition partially independently of the mechanical action of the gun, which is very useful for fast machine guns and artillery guns. In fact, for small arms, this has already been done once before (albeit discontinued now) with EtronX system developed and sold by Remington.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA107813
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA107813.pdf
Technical details of the M50 20mm
M61 Vulcan is also electrically primed, figure precise ignition timing is kinda important in a 6000 rpm gatling
I'm really curious about their power supply and ignition plug designs and materials.
As far as I know it's just 24 VDC on the firing pin
it seems that they are indeed just applying an electrical pulse to the primer, although in their designs the primer still has primary explosives inside.
I (maker of OP’s pics) was inspired by picrel, where someone made a pocket coach gun from one of those Cobray side by side .410 derringers. However, I lacked either a cobray kit or the skills to make the small parts myself, so it was much easier to make a simple circuit and a few igniters rather than 2 hammers, a trigger, and a locking mechanism on that tiny scale.
Extremely based.
This would take a lot of creative engineering but it is not impossible. I suspect the exact "primer" metal to act as the endpoint of the igniter/sparkplug would need quite a bit of iterative design to get right.
>I suspect the exact "primer" metal to act as the endpoint of the igniter/sparkplug would need quite a bit of iterative design to get right.
yeah, but consider the following
>reusable primers
Yes, once you get the conductor right, then you can just leave it in the case.
It wouldn't need much iterative design, any highly conductive hard steel alloy will do, as long as you have ceramic insulation in your breech contact point, perhaps made from ZTA ceramic as shown in earlier links above. Plastic would do as well, but much lower durability for this purpose. The thing to get right is actually the power supply in this kind of design, not the ignition spark plug.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_firing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrothermal-chemical_technology
I have had a difficult time acquiring any technical diagrams or data for these particular examples of existing electrically ignited priming/electronic priming firearms or their cartridges, some of these are old, so you'd think it would be easier to find, damn.
GIF related.
There's also CVA Electra muzzleloader.
>CVA Electra
why don't they make it anymore? it seems like the only gun that actually does the concept well.
>CVA Electra
I don't know why they discontinued it, but I assume it's due to some kind of either reliability issues or just not popular enough to be worth the cost. It worked quite well, faster ignition than traditional black powder setups, used essentially a similar igniter as a piezoelectric lighter.
ARC Electronic Ignition
IIRC it wasn't allowed for use during muzzle loader season in certain states, the barrel twist rate favored sabots, and the electric ignition really didn't offer that much of an advantage since it was brought to market during the early 00s and discontinued shortly before Sandy Hook when long term ammo shortages or ammo ever not being plentiful really wasn't a concern outside of muh SHTF. I remember passing up the chance to buy one for about $150 after they were discontinued. Looking back, it definitely would have been interesting to get one and rebarrel it for a smaller caliber with a twist rate suited for round balls.
Try the Winchester collection from the Buffalo Bill Center of the West.
These primers date back to the 1880's and their are more than enough drawings of them.
It's the future. Electronic ammo ignites faster than primer struck ammo because there's no need to wait for a hammer to drop. It's more reliable because there's less moving parts. Smart guns will definitely move in the direction of electro ammo.
The amazing part is the technology has been around for 80+ years, Germans essentially came up with it in a usable manner in some WWII machine guns, small arms sized at that in some cases.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5625972A/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/EP0010509A2/en
a different one with potential to be retrofitted into existing designs.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7270044B1/en
This one uses a plasma torch generator to ignite the propellant.
A sort of similar concept I believe is behind this particular fosscad project: https://www.youtube.com/@suckboytony8385/videos
>electric trigger = fast as frick boyee
not really. igniting gunpowder takes time. more than chemical ignition
I don't know for sure, but someone told me that in my country the firing pin is the part of the gun that is defined as a gun
So yeah, bring on the metal storm tech
That's fricking dumb. Firing pin is basically a hardened nail more of than not.
>Politicians
>In charge of making reasonable laws
My only problem with this would be how would the autoloading mechanism work?
Could still use a gas operated system, but if your doing that what's the point of having an electrically primed system, if you do everything electrical like a chain gun then you won't have to worry about failure to cycle on a dud since it will cycle no matter if the round actually gets ignited or not
Electrically primed black powder chain gun,
Maybe you could use tin cans for shell and make a gigantic black powder automatic shotgun, due to black powder not being as high pressure you could get away with a wonkier build
Not sure how it works exactly, but I'm pretty sure metal storm has no moving parts other than the bullets
It's basically just multiple rocket launcher using bullets instead, bullets are stacked on top of each other and fired one after the other
Problem is that the bullets Infront won't have the same velocity due to Barrel lenght
Pic rel
I like the idea of an electrically detonated cartridge, especially if the firing mechanism is essentially reduced to completing a circuit which starts the powder burn. This would give much more freedom to design a trigger that first and foremost is excellent, in and of itself, without making engineering concessions related to dropping and wienering the hammer or dealing with the striker. An electric gun could theoretically be the best-shooting gun possible. I wouldn't even mind charging my gun every day when I come home.
It wouldn't even be necessary to charge everyday. A 9V booktype lithium battery alone would be good for 300-500+ ignitions of this type, as illustrated by CVA Electra or Remington's attempt at a R700 with electronic trigger/ignition. And assuming, as it stands, it is used in some kind of muzzleloader or manual-action firearm (as I'm not sure there's any merit in it for a semi-auto gas operated gun to have this), 500 is a lot of shots.
Electric triggers are also already in use for some bullseye super specialized pistols/rifles in competitions, as well as those ultra-precision rail mounted rifles rich boomers play with, and also in certain mounted machine guns, so there's definitely merit to this design path if implemented correctly to minimize the cons.
Some ideas for what the internal primer could be that comes in contact with a robust spark plug of some kind in the breach.
It seems the concept really does have a lot in common with amateur rocketry.
Electronic trigger only.
There was stacked ammunition in experimental weapons a while back. Pretty sure they abandoned it, mildly amusing though. Cartridges packed in right behind each other, set off electronically so instantaneous burst fire or something. But I think you basically reloaded the entire barrel or some shit. Don't remember if it had any long range precision.
Would an electric trigger do away with the problem people have of pulling a trigger rather than squeezing it? I can see a niche application for those autistic european shooting competitions, where you have a two stage triggering system.
So you gently hold a trigger to arm the system, then steady yourself then lightly brush a sensor with you thumb to fire.
yes, you can hit a button or even a touch screen if you want.
Electronic triggers have been a thing in airsoft and paintball since forever, and some European competition pistols and rifles also already have them, usually in .22lr. They are basically like clicking a mouse button, that short and crisp. Pic related. This one even has a USB port for charging (which is usually good for almost a thousand pulls).
And of course electronic triggers are basically ubiquiotos on weapons outside of small arms, any sort of firing mechanism on like artillery, tanks, planes, etc.
Anything else with new ideas?
Ye
Belt fed seems like a reasonable direction if we’re trying to get away from any gas operated system
If there’s no need to do anything with exhaust gas, wouldn’t belt fed be the most minimal movement within the action?
rmb-93 style of gun so that you don't have to worry about a moving electrical bolt. I don't know how hot or effective spark plug style of igniters are, but you could make the shells out of paper or something
Well in theory a spark plug can take a lot of heat and a lot of pressure, assuming it has about the same durability and reliability as those in an internal combustion engine.
imagine charging your gun and it doesnt even shoot lightning.
Bump
bump
Thanks for the bump. I'm looking forward to see if anybody is actually trying or have implemented their own setups for this, even if it's a one-off.
Yeah it's interesting
>store gun
>Black personish behavior being enters home
>AAA's dead
>????
it's good for big calibers,autocannons stoff with inhuman levels of recol so that it can save space for acounter-balance mechanism but for small arms is not so practical
It's way easier to make at home than any mechanical firing mechanism, in case you need a weapon but you live in a gay country, or if the united states federal government repeals the second amendment and bans all guns (something that will happen soon)
if it's like the abe killer yes but if it is like >58234055 then no
also remember the cables are far more unstable than a spring and the way to give maintainance to one is far harder than a mechanical one
also keep illegal guns i have done it all my life and have had 0 trouble(im from the americas though)
>also remember the cables are far more unstable than a spring
>guns regularly have springs break
>even at idle, a spark plug in an engine is firing 600 times a minute and the wires withstand many years of wear and tear from firing tens of millions of times and being left outside expose to harsh weather and temperature shifts (the recommended service interval on my car from the 90s is 5 years/60k miles)
> brag about lifespan of car from the 90's
i work fixing the computers of cars don't be so stupid to talk about recomendations when choking the engine will burn every sparkplug plus likely damaging the whole block, springs break of course, but they can handle much more rough treatment than a sparkplug or a 8v wire that can be scratched in a shoot uout and render the gun unusable
Well, in theory the electronics would be well protected in this kind of setup. Also, I don't think DIY setups in restrictive countries are getting into shootouts with their electronically ignited ammo firearms, but that's a thought experiment that can lead to even further development and innovation around this mechanism. The thread so far was to show the viability, existing implementation and potential pathways forward, it is not a futile theory and has merits for further exploration.
i'm not saying it is a waste of time,nor do i want any kind of experimentation to stop, what i'm saying is that you should not yet trust your life to one, personally I have a D battery arquebus but is not a trustable thing
Fair point, I wouldn't really trust my life to a DIY electrically fired gun either, though I can imagine a place where gun restrictions are so bad, some people might.
yes, the doubts I have with that is that PCB's tend to get crusty even in perfect condiotions(except vacuum sealed) so again a mechanical one is more trustable perhaps in 20 years i will be right anymore similar to 3d printed guns but as of now don't trust your life on one
> brag about lifespan of car from the 90's
That wasn't my point. Only reason I referenced my car is because I have the factory service manual handy.
>i work fixing the computers of cars don't be so stupid to talk about recomendations when choking the engine will burn every sparkplug plus likely damaging the whole block
How is this relevant to this discussion?
>a 8v wire that can be scratched in a shoot uout and render the gun unusable
The scenario of "what if your gun takes a direct hit to the internal components" is a completely moronic no argument. If it was actually a concern, we would never have seen polymer frames take off.
>what does [working with materials i want to use] is relevant to [disscution about building with those materials]
turbo Black person response
>scratched wire
i went the easiest route there can also be a burnt wire becauseof al mailfunttion and thus making the gun not even bolt action operable
>>what does [working with materials i want to use] is relevant to [disscution about building with those materials]
Anon, you brought up issues that occur in a vastly more complex machine that don't come into play with guns. Guns don't need to worry about regulating fuel air mixture and sustaining damage from running rich.
>there can also be a burnt wire becauseof al mailfunttion
English please.
looks at first post gif you think that cable is gonna last long being lit everytime it fires?
>english please
my keyboard has suffered gamer rage not its fault
>looks at first post gif
>you can only discuss this topic in the context of the jankiest of home builds
>pcb involved, not even capable of bolt action, and way more hard to repair than spring
choose a narrative Black person either easier to make or pcb involved
Thank you for bringing this inventor boomer to my attention with this webm, he really is based and shares all his designs on his site.
The first post was really meant to show the absolute most basic form of this electrical ignition, essentially replacing a matchlock mechanism with batteries/capacitors and a heated wire (nichrome) from a vape circuit.
I think the point being missed is that this alternative firing mechanism CAN BE reliable, as seen in heavy machine guns, auto cannons, tanks, artillery, etc. And it provides an avenue for DIY ammunition that traditional cartridge with impact primers do not in restrictive areas. Also, it's just a fun experiment, it doesn't have to be as practical as just an AR or Glock at home.
And as
pointed out, the mechanism can be quite durable if made right. A spark plug is extremely durable, and electrical wiring don't just wear out willy-nilly, and both are easy to acquire and replace.
The "Aw shit I forgot to charge my gun bro..." general.
I mean people carry spare batteries for their optics and flashlights/lasers, what's one more battery for the trigger/ignition?
I'm not trying to swap batteries in a heated situation. I'll stick with my mechanical ignition thanks.
that's not how it works. in several of the setups shown here, a single CR123 lasts 100+ rounds, and 9V lithium in excess of 300-500 rounds. This technology isn't for the average American with access to self defense repeating firearms anyway, this is more an experimental design for those who don't have the same rights and privileges.
Well maybe you should use your electric guns to demand the same rights and privileges. That 2nd amendment ain't gonna write itself.
There is no defense against the Cybermusketeer in an Urban Gillie Suit
GARBAGE DAY!
Man, what year is it?
The year of our lord 2023.
implementing this into something accessible is the first step towards this goal.
How could it be more accessible than Suckboytony's fully plastic fully 3d printed model?
suckboytony's system is basically the same as
just all plastic instead of autistically machined, but he's taken a break and is no longer providing updates because he became a wageslave. multiple developers working on this is better than relying on one.
Sure, sure, I hope progress marches on and I'm sure it is, but the fact is all anyone really needs is a pipe and a lighter and they've got a musket they could ambush someone with.
and yet the most high profile assassination of the past 2 years was with an electronically ignited muzzleloader
That's kind of my point. I hope the technology gets better and I'm sure it will, but that exact incident proved what amounts to a blunderbuss is more than effective, and that all that's really lacking is the will to make weapons not the ability.
This video making me rethink some of the ideas in this thread.
An actual implementation by a DIY gunsmith back 12 years ago https://ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/electric_ml/electricml.html
https://ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/electric_ignition/eignition.html
https://ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/modular_ml/mod_ml.html
https://ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments.html
This really is it, he has solved the mystery of how to set off even smokeless powder with this setup. https://ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/electric_ignition/eignition.html and it works equally well for black powder. It's dealing with some dangerous currents and voltages though. This is essentially the DIY version of how many commercial setups of this works, but he went at it from scratch, and much can be derived from this.
why all the circuit boards and shit? simply
>spark plug trigger
>electrically activated ignition powder, pressed into the back of the round like a gigantic tracer pellet
>le cyberpunk gun
i can only imagine that cleaning it would be a fricking fun time
pic unrel
all the circuit stuff is to actually get the spark plug to do what you want it to do, which is very high voltage initially then a much lower but consistent voltage over a longer period of time to actually ignite the otherwise non-conductive smokeless powder.
and for all of this to happen basically instantaneously instead of with a matchlock-like delay.
For your consideration,
A piezoelectrically ignited black powder superposed load repeater. The projectiles themselves complete the circuit, with the foremost projectile providing the path of least resistance for a spark to ignite the powder behind it. When a round is discharged, it breaks its arm of the circuit, and current is redirected to the path of next-lowest resistance.
No batteries, no integrated circuits, just a piezoelectric sparker, a handful of resistors, and some wire.
The trick would be making sure that you load it consistently so that the projectiles are always seated at the same depth.
Thoughts?
I like the idea, getting the timing on that and preventing any sort of multiple propellants going off would be the trick. Getting the piezoelectric charge just right for the black powder to go off is also a challenge, which I suspect will make the circuit a bit more complicated (still no IC of course). I would suggest peeking at the work this based boomer did in terms of just how much is required to get black powder to go off
https://ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/electric_ignition/eignition.html
The fact that no flash powder or any kind of primary explosive is needed to make this work is really fascinating. Black powder would foul it all up real quick though.
why wouldn't it work?
Electricity flows from point A to point B. That is, you need to provide it a place to go. My electric gun works by having thin wire in between pt A and B in contact with a matchhead, so when a frickton of electricity tries to get from point a to b it has trouble all fitting through the thin wire so it gets red hot long enough to set off the matchhead. If you insulated the “primer” from the case and had a high resistance wire between both in contact with your powder charge or a primary charge, your design could work with the chamber as a terminal.
BTW, I’ve actually built something similar before. You can run into issues with fouling making the contact shit if you use BP though, so keep in mind.
I'm actually curious, given the existing primers are in fact made out of conductive metal, have primary explosive powders inside, and most casing are also metal (brass, steel, aluminum), this idea of passing a rather huge initial charge through the primer and the case using the firing pin and chamber as conductors to basically act as a resistive heating element for the back of the cartridge could in theory work, although I think there would be a flintlock/matchlock-like delay...
>3C4. Case electric primer
>Case electric primers (fig. 3C2) are used for the newer 3-, 5-, 6-, and 8-inch guns. These primers contain an electric ignition element which consists of two resistance filaments connected in parallel and surrounded by an explosive mixture, and a small black-powder primer charge. An electric current heats the filaments, which then ignite the explosive mixture. Flame from the initiating mixture ignites the black-powder primer charge, which in turn ignites the main black-powder charge of the primer.
>This primer is used with a variety of separate loading ammunition rounds to initiate burning of the propelling charge. The primer can be activated either by percussion from a firing pin, or by an electric current.
>Primer Mk 15, Mods 2 and 3, is a brass cylinder with an extraction flange base. A charge container loaded with 30 grains of black powder is threaded into the case. The base contains a firing plunger assembly, a primer cap of sensitive primer compound, and an electrical resistance wire embedded in gun cotton, The plunger assembly is insulated electrically from the case, except for the resistance wire connecting the two parts.
the above two for your interests
There's a laser primer from Austria.
https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2007/gun_missile/GMTuePM1/FordPresentation.pdf
Some serious presentation about electric primers, including the chemistry involved.
in theory combining this design with
these ideas could lead to something where the internal primer just uses regular smokeless powder instead of a special primary explosive mix.
farewell friends, until next time.
Don't forget to check out your latest fosscad developers for more updates!
more updates on what?
a cartridge/primer that can be DIY'd based on
this design's concept mixed with
a variation of these power supply designs, potentially able to be used both in a novel cartridge design as well as existing brass cartridges with both a DIY'able but more dangerous priming compound as well as https://22lrreloader.com/products/prime-all-repriming-compound compound.
Is this using those e-matches that rocket and firework enthusiasts use?
No, it's using the electronics taken out of a vape, with what appears to be exposed nichrome as wicks like on a matchlock.
but conceptually the e-matches work on the same principle, a resistively heated thin metal element surrounded by some kind of primary flammable powder.
Builder of gun in OP here, I used homemade ematches a la Grant Thompson: https://youtu.be/duoxvqxASak