During an active road rager incident, when are you allowed to pull out your firearm?

During an active road rager incident, when are you allowed to pull out your firearm?

Are there any state or federal rules regarding when you can be allowed to defend yourself?

If you expose your firearm in your car, is that considered brandishing in any US state?

  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >brandishing
    kek it’s a greeting among gun owners

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      One time I got into a spat with a guy at a restaurant. We had both been drinking a bit. He pulled put his gun which prompted me to pull out mine. Neither of us actually did anything because we're white. But I noticed he had a higher end 1911 so I said "nice gun motherfucker!" To which he replied "yeah bitch, yours ain't so bad either!" We ended up handing each other our guns and checking them out then became range buddies.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        baste and nice gun there pardnerpilled.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Nice Glock bro
        lmao

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Our daddy taught us not to be ashamed of our Glocks since there such perfection and all.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >“Wait a minute. We’re white!”

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If you don't brandish at least once a week are you even handling your guns?

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >During an active road rager incident, when are you allowed to pull out your firearm?
    Same as for any other self-defense incident.

    >Are there any state or federal rules regarding when you can be allowed to defend yourself?
    Yes, these are called "laws".

    >If you expose your firearm in your car, is that considered brandishing in any US state?
    Depends on whether anyone else sees it and feels threatened.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Here's an example. I don't know who's in the right.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Can't tell without audio, but he's in the right until he gets out of the car and presumably keeps shooting the guy. Dude had a weapon and was about to either about to attack him in the vehicle or pull him out of it and attack him. But once he was already shot and the victim gets out of the car and purposefully puts the gun to the guys head, then it becomes a whole other issue.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Better to be tried by 6 than pay 7 figures for his dumb ass in the hospital.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Jury is twelve retard. The saying is bed to be judged by twelve(a jury) than carried by six(the typical amount of people who carry a coffin to the grave)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Jury is twelve retard
            Doesn't have to be, IIRC some states go as low as six.

            http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/jurysize.html

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          dude its a fucking dowel rod

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >I don't know who's in the right.
      >Attacker blocks the exit way of the car with his car
      >Attacker gets out of the car, takes his time to get to the trunk and grab his pipe or wooden stick or whatever
      >Attacker rages and beats the other car
      >Attacker pulls open the door and attacks the driver physically
      Gee I too don't know who's in the right here...

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Attacker pulls open the door and attacks the driver physically

        He opens the door but doesn't hit the guy. He was just smashing up the car.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The victim has no reason to believe he is not in danger when a raging maniac with a baseball bat is beating his car and just ripped his car door open. You do not need to take a hit before you hit back. One hit from a baseball bat could kill you, which is why it is considered a deadly weapon by law enforcement.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's likely easier fighting the murder charge than the lawsuit for defending yourself.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Whos the asshole in the white shirt? He should have shot him for trying to take his pistol out of his hand.
      The man with the gun did nothing wrong.
      Clear case of self defense

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      why are americans so mentally ill

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        They keep putting weird shit in the food, water, and netflix shows.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's not because they're American. Just bald.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        most of us arent
        the rest of us watch too much tv

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What country are you from?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >I don't know who's in the right.
      >Attacker blocks the exit way of the car with his car
      >Attacker gets out of the car, takes his time to get to the trunk and grab his pipe or wooden stick or whatever
      >Attacker rages and beats the other car
      >Attacker pulls open the door and attacks the driver physically
      Gee I too don't know who's in the right here...

      Can't tell without audio, but he's in the right until he gets out of the car and presumably keeps shooting the guy. Dude had a weapon and was about to either about to attack him in the vehicle or pull him out of it and attack him. But once he was already shot and the victim gets out of the car and purposefully puts the gun to the guys head, then it becomes a whole other issue.

      I would say everything after 0:15 is getting into bad shoot territory, but a skilled defense attorney would point out the guy is still holding the weapon and still a threat. Depending on your local DA, you could probably get off just fine.
      Still its amazing that gay in the white shirt didn't get his ass beat either. A dude is beating on my car and you come up to ME to stop ME defending myself?
      Regardless, time to pull out your gun is when the dude blocks you in, time to actually show it is at 0:07, when he has a weapon. In fact, that's the time to shoot too. You are in reasonable fear for your life, and you aren't required in most states to actually be attacked first, just to have a reasonable suHispanicion that you will. Even in a non-stand your ground state, you have no place to flee to in this situation and are effectively backed into a corner (a driver seat, in this case).

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >time to pull out your gun is when the dude blocks you in
        I had a guy do this. He got out to fight. His door was facing my bumper. Splat.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          LMAO.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What is the name of this car? Make? Mode?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >Screen shot at 1:37AM
              Get some sleep.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                no

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Jojo version required

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I dunno, Mondeo maybe

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Looks like a Mazda 323. Great cars, built to last

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Still its amazing that gay in the white shirt didn't get his ass beat either
        Guy with the stick gives him a good hit to the kidney when he first shows up

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Man in the white car was well within his rights to kill that bastard.

      Can't tell without audio, but he's in the right until he gets out of the car and presumably keeps shooting the guy. Dude had a weapon and was about to either about to attack him in the vehicle or pull him out of it and attack him. But once he was already shot and the victim gets out of the car and purposefully puts the gun to the guys head, then it becomes a whole other issue.

      The fuck. If someone is trying to kill you, it is your duty to end him, no matter the means or how long it takes.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >it is your duty to end him, no matter the means or how long it takes.

        t. someone who just wants the chance to legally kill soemone

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Funny thing with these vids is that it's always some schizoid turbobelligerent mutt starting shit and getting rightfully punished.

      'nooo you HAVE to wrestle with me you absolutely HAVE to endure my attacks and eat it up you can just shoot me!!!!'

      You should be able to torture these kind of morons to death without fear of prosecution.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Have you ever talked to an actual leftist? This is exactly how they think. I have heard word-for-word, "He [Kyle Rittenhouse] is a murderer because the other guys were just going to kick his ass a little and he killed them instead of fighting them back."

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Then when you fist-fight them they either have their Black Bloc friends swarm you and kick you to death, or scream for the cops to intervene because "he punched me!"

          >This is exactly how they think
          No, it's what they want YOU to think they think. The reality is that they are willing to do absolutely anything to harm or kill you. If one of their friends rushes you and shoots you in the back of the head, they justify that because "well he was a Nazi so he deserved it!" They riot to "defund the police!" and then when Saint Kyle shoots one of them they start screaming for the police to come help them.

          At any given moment, whatever they shriek is whatever they think will benefit them the most at that instant. They have no fixed principles, no morals, no boundaries. They demand whatever they think will help them win.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Guy in the white car is on pretty safe ground until the third shot. Going to take a good lawyer to explain that away.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      As soon as he went to get the 2x4 I would have backed into his car and drove off.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If he blew him at 0:07 instead of waiting he woulda been scot free, what a dumbass

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Every single individual involved is a boomer isn't it? There's an energy to what everyone does that screams boomer retard. The cornering and beating up the car, the execution style shots, all comes off like its a bunch of old menchildren who watched too many mob movies.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Sometimes it's better to avoid a gun fight, I don't see any upside to one. Road rage drivers are strange creatures, I've had multiple interactions usually they're probably drunk idiots being idiots driving around in traffic for no reason other than to pick fights. I think a lot of them are trying to escalate suicide attempts up to suicide by cop. They end up alone home one night and jump in a noose or eat a bullet.

      White car guy was in the right till he shot the first aggressor in the back instead of the guy wrestling with him. The guy tried to steal his weapon, just because he didn't jump out of the same car with the guy doesn't mean they weren't planning it together. One aggressor had a vehicle and a weapon, the next one went around to flank him and try to help out the initial aggressor from this film segment.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Bald boomer tries to "help" by attempting to grab the gun, flagging two passerby's in the process.

      Dumb gay should be in prison for public endangerment and assault.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      He was in the right until the threat was done and he had a choice. He could leave or continue shooting the downed man. He chose wrong but still might be ok. If you do this as a white man and it's a black teenager you'll go to prison though so he careful. Don't continue shooting after the threat is incapacitated. You're trying to survive and escape from a legal view, not trying to end the other person's life.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The guy in the white car was in the right.

      1. He was parked and the car was turned off.
      2. He was parked and boxed in as the assaulter could not let him escape.
      3. The guy in the white car had no way of leaving the parking lot or his car.
      4. The guy with the bat came to damage his property and physically assaulted him.

      Under the law, the guy in the white car had a reasonable suHispanicion that the guy with the bat posed a danger to his life and intended to do serious harm to him.

      Had the guy with the bat withdrawn himself and not opened the car door and instead walked away. The guy with the gun would be liable for murder or manslaughter charges.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Had the guy with the bat withdrawn himself and not opened the car door and instead walked away. The guy with the gun would be liable for murder or manslaughter charges.
        that last headshot could very well be constructed as manslaughter

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Guy in the white car needs life in prison. He fucking executed the dude with a point blank shot in the back of the head.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't get why he even fired that last one. the first few shots seem to be pretty much center mass so the guy is probably going to die anyway. why turn it into a cold-blooded execution

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Because, even if he had stopped short of the execution and gottend away with it, he most likely shot him in rage, not fear for his life by a wooden stick. Had he stopped short of the execution I still think he should've gotten off scott free, but let's not kid ourselves with any "I feared for my life" bullshit.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      honor wise the man in the white car is in the clear. legally he's probably getting in big trouble for those purposeful execution-style shots, maybe also for exiting his car in the first place (before he goes back to get his weapon)

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >During an active road rager incident, when are you allowed to pull out your firearm?
    When you feel your life or the one of other persons nearby is in grave danger. For example of the road rager tries to kick open the driver side window or something.
    >Are there any state or federal rules regarding when you can be allowed to defend yourself?
    No ones that deal with road rage. Every law like stand your ground and comparable stuff for self defense in public applies.
    >If you expose your firearm in your car, is that considered brandishing in any US state?
    Yeah, don't do that. If an attacker sees your gun it should be the last thing he ever sees. One could argue people should make sure the attacker gets no chance to tell his side of the story.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That was satisfying to watch

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Chicago

      Yeah that seems about right

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        My last couple of years there, the new hot thing was for nogs to just open fire into the air from their cars while driving down LSD or the Kennedy. I thought the news was hyping something that never really happened outside of a couple of incidents. Then my apartment building in streeterville took a couple of random bullets once. After that, I was going down the Kennedy one day and homie coming the other direction just unloaded a mag into air. They're quickly becoming South Africa.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I've seen the rival gang execution videos where they follow someone, jump out of their car at a stoplight, open fire into the other vehicle, and then run back to their car and drive away, but I haven't seen the random-shooting-into-the-air stuff.

          Lezzie Lightfoot is a real piece of shit. Between her and Governor Fat Bastard, I'm just waiting for my mother to croak so I can finally leave the shithole state before it implodes.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      He should have finished the job.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Reminds me of this.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        man vs car

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Lemmie guess. Car wins?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The fact that she's just sitting there looking flustered while her foot has basically been amputated tells me that she's high as fuck.

        Gonna suck when she comes down and everyone starts calling her Eileen

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Jimmy D's Body & Fender Shop · Map · 4208 S Western Ave. Chicago, IL 60609. Brighton Park. (773) 847-0426. Call Now
      neat

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >he comes back for a second round
      >and a third
      >and a fourth
      >still not expecting to be ran over
      nogs are stupid but compensate for that with resilience

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >people actually get so mad on the road they pull over to fight the other person
    >people are also going to shoot the other guy and go to jail just because they did something slightly annoying
    america never ceases to amaze me

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Start shit, get hit

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        why start shit in the first place? i keep running into something called brake checking and i have no idea why it's done in the first place

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Stop tailgating people. For every 10mph keep 1 car distance, about 20 feet.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I don't and people never do it here either - why do they in America?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >why do they in America?
              Because we got shit to do places to go unlike Europe. Israel isn't going to become great again by itself.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >why do they in America?
              Because people like to drive like fucking grandmas and follow 50 year old speed limits, then get pissed if you decide you want to go anything 5 over that said speed limit. I drive a 6 speed diesel dually so people know better not to brake check me because I'm not stopping.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I drive a 6 speed diesel dually
                >follow 50 year old speed limits, then get pissed if you decide you want to go anything 5 over that said speed limit
                Something tells me it's more likely you tailgate people going 20 over in the left lane while passing other cars, because they dared to be in front of you.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I had a guy behind me the other day mad that I wasnt driving fast enough toward the red light coming up pass me in a turning lane, pull in front and brake check me so it's not always a tailgating thing some people are just cunts.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You mean 2 seconds, boomer.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          once i was driving down the freeway in the city, low traffic, in the middle lane, going the speed limit cause i had a smoothie i was drinking for lunch.
          I look up and there's some work van with a ladder on the roof behind me and he's fucking furious. He's mad and right on my ass. and he's making hand signals and all kinds of shit.
          I look to my left and theres nobody on that lane, i look to my right and theres just a few slow cars im clearly passing on normal speed.

          I literally did nothing and continued to slurp my smoothie while staring right into the guy from my rear view mirror.
          He probably got uncomfortable cause i stared him straight in the eyes for a solid 20-30 seconds and he just changed lanes and passed me.

          You dont have to start shit in the road, people just get fucking mad for no reason.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Around 1am or 2am or something like that, I was driving on a four-lane next to another car, doing the limit, kind of unconsciously pacing the other guy, when a brodozer came up behind us, apparently got pissed off that he couldn't speed on down the road, and intentionally rammed the other guy, then swerved and rammed him again. Then the brodozer driver tried to take off.

            It was one of those instant karma moments -- there was a car coming the other way about a quarter of a mile down the road, and it turned out to be a cop. Instant flashing lights and he pulled the brodozer over.

            Thoroughly destroyed the other car, it was a pretzel. Driver was injured, got glass chips in one eye. I didn't see enough of the brodozer to know how badly damaged it was, but there had to have been some damage.

            I gave my name to the cops and the injured car driver, but I never heard back. I assume the brodozer driver was caught on dashcam and everything else, so there was no point in pretending he hadn't done it.

            Anyway, that's when I stopped being cute about not wearing my seatbelt when it totally wasn't necessary. All it would have taken was our positions being swapped in the lanes and I would have been the driver getting rammed around by the psychopath.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            BTW, another one, a bit more like yours.

            I was driving to the hospital to see my mother, who had just broken her hip in a fall. It was a LONG way off because she'd been moved to someplace for long-term bedrest and it was out in the middle of nowhere. Also, I wasn't in any hurry and didn't know where I was going, so I was doing the limit and trying to keep an eye out for road names.

            Some moron in a giant white pickup truck decided to ride my ass for several miles. Like, almost-touching close, he couldn't have been more than a foot or two behind me. On 45mph winding low-density-suburb main roads with random driveways and side roads from residential areas joining in.

            So, we get to a light, and I pull as far over to the right side as I can, and when the light turns green I just pull forward a few inches and stick my hand out and wave him past. I figure I don't need this shit, and I don't need to get rear-ended and then have to deal with maybe me getting injured too, not to mention that my car is an old enough shitbox that scratching the paint would cause the insurance company to total it and force me to waste money getting a new one.

            The fucking truck moron sits through the entire green light, honking at me so he can keep riding my ass, instead of just going around as I'm directing him to do. He finally takes off on the next green light.

            As you note, sometimes people are fucking retarded for no reason whatsoever. They just like generating drama.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Because often times there’s opportunities to not be a dickhead but drivers decide to be dickheads anyway. This can be attributed to the number of dangerously stupid people that are allowed to operate vehicles. It often isnt slight annoyances either. Idiots can do something that could have caused a major accident and act as if nothing happened. Of course this is going to frustrate people. I don’t understand how you cant understand this but yet be completely smug with your ignorance. Must be dunning kruger i guess.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It should be encouraged and legalized to thin the herd of idiots.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Never understood flashing a gun in a road rage meltdown, you’ll know I have one when it’s time to use it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Guy stops in front of you
      >Gets out and starts approaching your car aggressively.
      >Draw pistol and hang arm out the window, just to show what's gonna happen.

      Guy will turn around and get back in his car. Or he'll draw, but you have the drop on him.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Had this happen to me once. I was driving like an aggressive asshole since I running late to a final exam because of multiple accidents hemming up traffic. Guy ahead of me got sick of it, stopped and stepped out to yell or something. I just sat there and let him get it out of his system. Not like I can blame him for being pissed.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Gets out and starts approaching your car aggressively.
        this is when you just pepper spray them. then, all they can do is sit in their car for the next 30 minutes and ruminate on their idiocy because they're too blind to drive.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    In my state, if they try to open your car door l, it's covered under the castle doctrine.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I almost saw a fight between my dad and a black teenager trying to act hood.
    >Dad is driving truck and wood chipper. Taking my friend home first before we head home.
    >Black kid gets cut off by my dad, not really he just had to slow down from 10 over the limit.
    >Black kid gets angry and starts tailgating.
    >Dad turns onto the road my buddy lived at the corner of and pulls over to the side.
    >Black kid followed. Buddy is terrified and not getting out.
    >Black kid gets out of his Corolla and starts talking shit.
    >My five foot eight inch Hispanic father gets out and starts yelling back.
    >I'm trying to get my buddy out of the damn truck and to run to his house.
    >Black kid opens his trunk and pulls out a fucking lacrosse stick like his privileged ass is gonna do shit.
    >Dad digs out a mattock from the truck. Black kid is bug-eyed at the thought that his bluff was called by this old dude shorter than him by almost a foot.
    >I finally get my buddy out of the fucking truck and he runs across the road to his house.
    >Dad gets back in the truck. Hauls ass out while digging for his pistol.
    >Black kid didn't follow.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Sounds like your dad is a moron too

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        He did more good for this country than most ever will. Without taking a life to do so. He just had his father's temper. And significant PTSD that was left untreated, just like his father.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Never mess with a man with a wood chipper. He can dispose of evidence way too easy.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You and your friend should have got out at stood your ground with your Dad. The kid would have fucked off sooner.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Is it really road rage if you are stopping armed robbers?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      based. i could watch gay motorcycle thieves getting blown out all day.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Ayy you got any more of these?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Thank you - so satisfying

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Tell me you have more
      This is like food for the soul

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Extremely based. I think their crime problem is going to be turning around soon.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >when are you allowed to pull out your firearm?
    When you're going to shoot it, which you're only allowed to do when you're about to be killed. There are specific other circumstances which vary by state, for example I can shoot a robber in the process of robbing, or a rapist in the process of raping, even if those situations are threatening someone else. But that's specific to my state (AZ). If you're such a layman in law that you can't even look up and read your state's laws regarding justification for lethal force, I can't even begin to explain it all in one post. Just don't draw unless you're going to shoot and don't shoot unless you or someone innocent is going to die if you don't.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Death isn’t a requirement. Serious injury is also a justification

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You don't know how to articulate that if you're asking questions like the OP. You're a walking liability who's going to end up in prison because you shot a guy who was punching you then tried to claim "muh serious bodily injury." The fact that you just pulled that out of your butt claiming it applies to all states is proof you don't know poo. OP is apparently asking for a blanket justification which doesn't really exist except kill or be killed, that concept seems to span the entire US still luckily.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Show me a state where imminent serious bodily harms isn’t a justification for self-defense. Go on, I’ll wait.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            California
            >As set forth below, it is the intent of the Legislature that peace officers use deadly force only when necessary in defense of human life. In determining whether deadly force is necessary, officers shall evaluate each situation in light of the particular circumstances of each case, and shall use other available resources and techniques if reasonably safe and feasible to an objectively reasonable officer.
            >only when necessary in defense of human life

            That's the justification for cops. Good luck telling the garden gnome judge that you, a lowly civilian, killed a future astronaut because you selfishly didn't want to end up paralyzed in a wheelchair.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              ‘Sup

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I was testing you, gj. That's all you need to do is look up your state law book.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >i was only pretending to be retarded
                sasuga anon

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >[or was in imminent danger of being (raped/maimed/robbed/ <insert other forcible and atrocious crime>)];
                TIL you can shoot a motherfucker for robbing you in California.
                You alright sometimes, California. You alright.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, California actually has pretty decent self defense laws. It’s the gun ownership and carry laws that are fucked up

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Massachusetts, duty to retreat -- even if your psycho husband is threatening to murder your children, hey there's a window you could have climbed through therefore you're guilty of murder.

            Not making it up, that was the caselaw basis for the insane standard for "duty to retreat" in Massholeland.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Wow, seriously? Do you have a link to the case or names to look up or something?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Not any more, this was discussed when I took one of Massad Ayoob's classes maybe 25-30 years ago. AFAIK Assholechusetts still has that standard in place but I haven't lived there in decades now.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                BTW, I'd suggest starting your own fresh thread with that question at the top; there's bound to be some Masshole reading the board who can give you the answer. I spent 20 minutes trying to google it and all I get are recent news articles and some stupid Harvard Law professor's blogposts on why Kyle Rittenhouse deserved to be beaten to death.

                If you have access to Westlaw or LexisNexis you could probably track it down pretty quickly. It was an appellate level case and the judge writing the opinion stating "she could have escaped through a window" is what set the insanely high standard for all subsequent cases.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Commonwealth v. Shaffer, 1972. It was a basement that had an outside exit, not a window. Deeply fucked up esp since he had also threatened to kill the kids. They still teach it in law school as a lesson in how not to appeal a jury verdict. And the Massholes turned around and voted in castle doctrine in a landslide the next year to fix this bullshit.
                Best part about the whole case tho? It was a .22LR kekekkity

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Commonwealth v. Shaffer, 1972. It was a basement that had an outside exit, not a window. Deeply fucked up esp since he had also threatened to kill the kids.
                Thank you, Anon!

                >They still teach it in law school as a lesson in how not to appeal a jury verdict.
                How so? Was the appeal done incompetently, or is it "don't appeal because then it might become precedential"? If the latter, then how does that help the person who was convicted and has to choose between appealing the conviction vs. "spending years in prison so the case doesn't screw over others"?

                >And the Massholes turned around and voted in castle doctrine in a landslide the next year to fix this bullshit.
                Say what? Ayoob was still teaching duty to retreat in the 1990s as valid.

                Looking it up now:
                https://thefernandezfirm.com/how-to-legally-deal-with-a-home-intruder-in-massachusetts/
                (obviously not a complete blogpost discussion of all possible aspects)
                I see that there's castle doctrine within the confines of the house, but NOT if the other person is allowed there, e.g., guests until and unless you trespass them, at which point they become trespassers and you're good to shoot them again. I don't know how it would work out against someone who is also a resident of the house -- could she have told her boyfriend to GTFO? What if his name was also on the lease?

                Reading the text of the decision now:
                https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914c66aadd7b049347dafa0
                in this case it appears to be her residence (unknown if she was the homeowner or a renter), and it is not mentioned whether the boyfriend was also a resident, although that seems likely. If he was also a resident, whether on the lease or not, does the whole thing turn back into the same shit sandwich of a case where she still has a duty to retreat?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Was the appeal done incompetently
                Yes. The appeal argued to the high court, essentially, that the jury had been prejudiced by the judge instructing them from the bench about the legal nature of 'duty to retreat' in common law in that time. Which is sort of like complaining to the head chef his sous chef served you beets in borscht, it was dumb.

                >Ayoob
                Duty to retreat is not the law only in SYG states and not even in all of those, and is considered a best practice bother ethically and legally anyway. Most firearms instructors will tell you that flat out, legality aside

                >castle doctrine within the confines of the house, but
                yep. even in TX which has castle doctrine right to the fuckin sidewalk you can't shoot your roommate for looking at you funny.
                There were a bunch of cases on this in Boston in the 90s- i recall a party got crashed by some wiggers, party host told them to leave, then shot the leader in the knees. Got off clean because he made them trespassers and then shot the little shitstain for getting aggro

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          someone does not know you cannot flim flam the zim zam

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    No federal law on self defense, mostly state regulations are what matter.
    California? You’re fucked the prosecutor gonna make an example out of you.
    Florida? You can run said person over if you perceive them as a threat.
    It heavily depends on what state you’re in.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      California is so plagued by crime (really always has been but it's just worse now) that they actually have decent self defense laws, they just rarely and I mean fucking RARELY let anyone carry. Castle doctrine being one of said good laws. Their laws look like they were written by an HR department full of women and high estrogen garden gnomes though, and the punishment for gun crimes is almost unreasonable. Any serious felony where you're armed with a gun, additional 10 years. If you actually shot the gun, additional 20 years. If you shot someone, 25-life years. Those are added onto your other sentence for the original crime, and they're required additional sentences, a judge can't alter the years.

      25 to life for shooting someone during a rape or robbery, which is obviously attempted murder for personal gain. But get this, murder for a hate crime is mandatory life in prison without the possibility of parole. I always thought that was funny. Like murder is horrible, you've killed someone and weren't justified, you've done the worst possible selfish thing. But if you do the worst possible selfish thing, and you also don't like black people, you can ABSOLUTELY NEVER be allowed out of prison. Women and feminized garden gnomes think racism is the worst thing imaginable when it's what built and maintained every great empire.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        If racism is inherently good then why are you against clear racism against white people

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I'm not. Strife makes strength. We have to suffer and compete, and be in an endless cycle of struggle in order to grow, evolve, and strive for greatness. It was the competition against other threats that made great societies arise, out of the pride they took against their rivals and the security they sought against their enemies. If you remove us from that wild nature element, we grow stagnant and weak. You have to constantly be pushing enemies away from your gates, with each push you grow stronger and adapt.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >During an active road rager incident, when are you allowed to pull out your firearm?
    The second you have determined it's a legit threat and you feel your life is in danger. Nothing else matters. Train yourself out of this mindset that you need to follow someone else's rules, think for yourself. Laws won't keep you alive when a person is actively trying to kill you.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    As soon as you are in fear for your life or the life of another.
    /thread

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    if you point at your weapon while it's stowed, say by center console or in/on waistband, that's not a crime but could still get you some heat if the right people get really assmad about it. as soon as it's in your hands, and/or pointing at somebody else, that's brandishing and/or criminal threatening. don't take my word for it though i just watch a lot of dumbass cop shit on yootoob

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Brandishing is pointing and threatening.
      Keeping it at low ready is completely legal and the same as open carrying. I really wish fucking armchair lawyers would stop spouting the meme of
      "If you don't quickdraw like the wild west a cop will spawn like Gmod and arrest ya on the spot!"
      Sometimes I see a group of "urban youths" approaching my car at a red light and suddenly I don't feel safe. Yeah I can keep my fucking shit in my lap it's not a crime until it's pointed at the future engineer if he isn't doing anything

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I know of a road rage shooting incident were one guy flashed his pistol and the other guy shot and wounded him, leaving him a quadriplegic
    Sad a.f.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Waving a gun during a road rage incident is always a bad idea. Treat it like any other self-defense situation, and keep it ready but hidden until the other guy decides to pull a weapon.

    I live in a cucked state, but there was a case where a during a road rage incident, some guy held up a gun so the other guy could see it, didn't even point it at the other person, and put it down right away. Still got 20 years for brandishing.

    Some reason the law treats your car as some mobile defense escape pod thingy that will whisk you away to safety.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm glad I live in Ohio, where Castle Doctrine explicitly applies to your car. That said if someone tries to walk at my car and I'm not physically blocked in I'm just gonna drive away rather than interrupt my drive to engage him, and if he gets in the way fuck him, he gets bumped.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You need to look up the specific self defense laws in your state. It varies even from red states.

    In general if you are asking best practices.
    >Get good cameras and a PA system installed in your car
    >Get carry insurance so you can pay the lawgarden gnome when it comes time. Get in a good relationship with a litigator if possible.
    >Don't go back and forth in a argument with someone. Try to exchange information if needed if they will be civil but do not engage in name calling.
    >make sure you lock all of your doors and don't get out of the car if you think you are dealing with a wackjob.
    >Drive off if needed and call the police to report accident if there was one. You need to report the incident promptly to avoid a hit and run charge but you don't have to literally stay right there.
    >Always make sure to emphasize and if needed bullshit a bit about about how crazy the person was acting and you were afraid.

    I've had to brandish twice in my life to get out of a sticky situation. A boomer over some stupid shit and one time late at night from some morons at a gas station . The boomer there was some minor legal drama but my lawyer sorted it out with no charges filed. Like I said before get in with a good lawyer if possible, the guy I use takes payments and it did cost me a bit but haven't had any issues with getting jammed up with some cuck DA.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Story time

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I've told the story before but people don't believe me because it sounds like I'm trolling about a certain youtuber but here we go.

        >pick up some last minute groceries in a hurry
        >Get in my car and start going down the road
        >Live in a rural area kind of out of the way so I notice when I have a single car following me down a road.
        >Have to make a stop at this random side park/parking area because something is fucky with the car audio
        >Other car follows and sort of parks trying to block me in.
        >I am fucking with my radio trying to get the aux cord to work and this boomer walks up.
        >Hey son I need to talk
        >I give him a confused look as he was behind me the entire way. I figure he's gonna tell me my light is broken or something.
        >He proceeds to lecture me about leaving my shopping cart out.
        >This fagboat followed me for over 4 miles at least to tell me this.
        >I let him ramble on and then say I understand.
        >I decide to stop wasting my time and say I have to leave.
        >"Well son I don't think you understand"
        >Can't get out because his boomer truck blocking the way out.
        >Tell the boomer to move his fucking truck I got places to be.
        >Proceed to go on the grass to drive around
        >boomer gets in the way
        >I get out of the car and tell him to stop being a mental patient and let me by.
        >boomer gets real upset starts to walk towards me aggressively
        >I lift my shift up and pull my handout out.
        >Tell him to back the fuck up.
        >boomer steps back and starts to still talk shit while backing up
        >Not sure who called because no one was around but state trooper shows up.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          *pull my handgun out
          >cops keeps us there for awhile asking what happened.
          >boomer comes up with a bunch of shit.
          >Give the cop minimum info
          >He says I'm not under arrest but someone will follow up and tells us to stay away from each other.
          >Few days later police call me up
          >I call my lawyer and give him my recording and story.
          >goes back and forth for a week before cops decide not worth their time to pursue since the guy followed me and was trying to keep me from leaving

          cost me around 800 bucks for my lawgarden gnome to have two conference calls but worth every dime.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            also adding on*
            Didn't point the gun at the guy and dropped the weapon before the trooper got out/he didn't see me with a firearm initially so the situation was alot more easier to walk away from. If he had seen me I'm sure he would have cuffed me and took me in before asking questions.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >zero self-awareness
          >claims to be in a huge rush
          >yet stops on the side of the road to fix an aux cable
          >$800 idiot tax still not enough to realize he's a retard
          Put your shopping cart back next time, gay.
          You aren't an emergency responder, you can spare the 10 seconds it takes to put your shopping card away.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          putting the shopping cart back is the ultimate litmus test and you failed

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The litmus test OP was trying to warn us about this

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            cartcucks need to be castrated

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Regardless of what is legal, you should be allowed to kill someone who tries to or threatens to attack you. That's what should be legal. I don't care if he asks for mercy. If I want to let him live, it should be my choice since he instigated it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      My friend, you are free to kill anyone you want. Just be aware that the police are free to arrest you and put you in jail for the rest of your life afterwards.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        What use does a response like this have? Yeah, you can do that and get in trouble. But that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I said I wanted it to be legal because it should be.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You want to do whatever you think is right. The police already know what they think is right. Killing a person because they made you feel intimidated isn't right, according to the police.

          The police have the right and obligation to arrest and jail you for disagreeing with them. The use of this post is that you should be sure you handle the consequences of your actions.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You are trying to hard with the bait newfriend

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I am you, 30 years from now. You just don't know it yet.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Going to work in the morning
    >Going speed limit on an empty road
    >notice a red van a few miles back in the rear view mirror
    >holy shit it's getting close fast
    >red van is now in the other lane, matching my speed
    >guy is jumping around in his seat
    >looks like he is yelling at me
    >i'veseenthisbefore.jpeg
    >hit the breaks
    >guy speeds back up
    >blows through half a dozen red lights before I lose sight

    Closest thing I've had to a road rage incident. There was that one dumbass that stopped on the interstate and did a u-turn in middle of the road to go back to a missed exit.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    In any circumstances that any reasonable man would consider an immediate threat to his life

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    My cousin was killed by a moron during a road rage incident.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Many such cases.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    In my last police interaction, I was drunk as fuck. They asked if I was armed, and I responded, "What does it matter anyway?" I think they appreciate honest candor. Same thing when my friend was driving across the continental 48 and the patrolman asked, "Is that loaded?" The response, "Wouldn't do any good if it wasn't," was acceptable.
    Wouldn't recommend if you're black.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I had a moment like that once. I was pulled over when I goosed the gas a bit to hard. I live in a duty to inform state, so did what I must to avoid a felony. This being my first traffic stop I am nervous as hell and didn't have my wallet out already so I ask if I can pull it out of my pocket, since it is dark out and I don't want a jumpy cop shooting me because I have a gun on my hip. He nonchalantly says "yeah sure I trust you won't pop one off in my chest." I should have joked back that I had a .380 and it would only make him mad.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I had a moment like that once. I was pulled over when I goosed the gas a bit to hard. I live in a duty to inform state, so did what I must to avoid a felony. This being my first traffic stop I am nervous as hell and didn't have my wallet out already so I ask if I can pull it out of my pocket, since it is dark out and I don't want a jumpy cop shooting me because I have a gun on my hip. He nonchalantly says "yeah sure I trust you won't pop one off in my chest." I should have joked back that I had a .380 and it would only make him mad.

      "Of course I'm armed, what sort of a fucking idiot do you think I am?" is also acceptable.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >During an active road rager incident, when are you allowed to pull out your firearm?
    When you have reasonable fear for your life, otherwise you'll end up in prison and Biden will confiscate your guns

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >i am mentally ill and have anger issues
    >plz tell me how to murder legally
    take your pills you gay and never touch a gun again

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >wife is driving home from our local Ikea
    >I'm in back seat of her crossover SUV throat lozenge female-mobile because we have a huge yucca plant that only fits in the front that we bought
    >it's winter so I'm actually carrying my MK23
    >stop off at a Wendy's because Wendy is sexy
    >as we're sitting in the parking lot (not a great area) I see some black guy walking across the parking lot, shirtless
    >not skeptical until he starts getting close to the car
    >he legit walks over and tries my wife's door, then starts slapping the window saying something about "BITCH GIT OUT DA CAR, WHY YOU IN MAH CAR BITCH"
    >wife is deer in the headlights
    >draw MK23
    >point it at his stupid fucking chest
    >roll down the window
    >he sees me with a Double Baconator in one hand and a fuckhueg .45 pointed directly at him
    >slaps the ground with both palms like a monkey in surprise (like he's ducking), yelling "bro-"
    >sprints into the woods
    didn't want him to hurt my yucca plant, simple as

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >allowed
    bro, when you gots a gun, you make them rules

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Enjoy keeping Jamal company in prison

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yes it is brandishing, and if you pull it out that would clear the other person to shoot you to death also in several states. It has already happened some boomers have gotten ventilated due to brandishing because they didnt feel like getting out of the fast lane. Watch asp.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      One poor bitch in FL went up for 20 for brandishing and firing a warning shot at her ex who was there to kill her and the kids. In her garage. She could've domed him and danced on the corpse and walked, but instead she got the bad ending.
      Check your local laws, killing someone can legally be the better option.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Lmao the story you heard was false. She initiated the argument over a custody dispute in her baby daddy's house, violating a restraining order, and it wasn't a "warning shot" she missed her baby daddy's head by a few inches with his hands already in the air and several children next to him. Only ended up serving a few years in prison anyway.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Might be a different case, they showed the texts he sent saying he was going to kill her at the trial.
          anyway the point stands, she would've walked if she had just shot him

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      depends on the state mostly
      Here I can get out with a gun displayed on my hip (must have a holster) and that deescalates most arguments. I pull it out without intent to use its brandishing. Rifles on the other hand can be carried at low ready.
      you flash a gun on the street here you are very likely to get mag dumped and they will get off 100%

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yes it is brandishing, and if you pull it out that would clear the other person to shoot you to death also in several states. It has already happened some boomers have gotten ventilated due to brandishing because they didnt feel like getting out of the fast lane. Watch asp.

        Brandishing is pointing and threatening.
        Keeping it at low ready is completely legal and the same as open carrying. I really wish fucking armchair lawyers would stop spouting the meme of
        "If you don't quickdraw like the wild west a cop will spawn like Gmod and arrest ya on the spot!"
        Sometimes I see a group of "urban youths" approaching my car at a red light and suddenly I don't feel safe. Yeah I can keep my fucking shit in my lap it's not a crime until it's pointed at the future engineer if he isn't doing anything

        >For purposes of this subsection, the term “brandish” means, with respect to a firearm, to display all or part of the firearm, or otherwise make the presence of the firearm known to another person, in order to intimidate that person, regardless of whether the firearm is directly visible to that person.
        just holding the weapon is brandishing if a lawyer can make you sound threatening. and holding a weapon IS threatening, so there you have it

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Fellas, how big is the chance of your going going off whilst carrying one in the chamber, safety on ( if it has one ) and getting in car crash ?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Depends on the model, a nambu? yeah you are fucked. Any other gun made by a reputable manufacturer in the last 40 years (not sig) you are good

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Even ones that utilize a hammer?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I think most hammer fired safeties block the transfer bar so unless the gun gets severely damaged it should be fine

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          again it depends on the model. google is "gun" drop safe

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anyone have that fake but entertaining soccer mom story about the motorcycle guy who had to cap some Minivan Soccer mom who tried to run him down?

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >During an active road rager incident, when are you allowed to pull out your firearm?
    Pro-tip: Just don't. Drive off, avoid confrontation. Save yourself thousands of dollars in legal fees and time speaking with the police and attorneys. "Allowed" isn't what you're looking for, nor is it the question to be asking. Separation, de-escalation - traffic infractions and low level misdemeanors aren't worth your safety or life.

    >Are there any state or federal rules regarding when you can be allowed to defend yourself?

    Most states have a "justifiable homicide" code - but in today's political climate - see above.

    >If you expose your firearm in your car, is that considered brandishing in any US state?

    See your city, county, and state code. Just remember - a concealed carry is your trump card - you really wanna show everyone your trump card or do you want to run out of options first?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Pro-tip: Just don't. Drive off, avoid confrontation.
      That's not always your choice. See

      Around 1am or 2am or something like that, I was driving on a four-lane next to another car, doing the limit, kind of unconsciously pacing the other guy, when a brodozer came up behind us, apparently got pissed off that he couldn't speed on down the road, and intentionally rammed the other guy, then swerved and rammed him again. Then the brodozer driver tried to take off.

      It was one of those instant karma moments -- there was a car coming the other way about a quarter of a mile down the road, and it turned out to be a cop. Instant flashing lights and he pulled the brodozer over.

      Thoroughly destroyed the other car, it was a pretzel. Driver was injured, got glass chips in one eye. I didn't see enough of the brodozer to know how badly damaged it was, but there had to have been some damage.

      I gave my name to the cops and the injured car driver, but I never heard back. I assume the brodozer driver was caught on dashcam and everything else, so there was no point in pretending he hadn't done it.

      Anyway, that's when I stopped being cute about not wearing my seatbelt when it totally wasn't necessary. All it would have taken was our positions being swapped in the lanes and I would have been the driver getting rammed around by the psychopath.

  32. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You are in a car. You already have a deadly weapon.

  33. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Look at jury instructions in your jurisdiction and talk to a criminal defense attorney.
    >How do I shoot a soccer mom in a traffic spat traffic and not go to prison PrepHole?
    Jesus Christ.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >talk to a criminal defense attorney.
      Not a bad idea to find a local one whom you can arrange to call and bail you out in the event of an emergency.

      Those "ccw defense insurance" things are usually pretty scammy and overpriced. They're sort of like Empire Carpets -- you call the 800 number and then they shop it out to the lowest bidder who signed up with them.

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