>the US isn't going to be able to stand up to china
lmao the US is running out of red lines to cross.
when f35s are based in Taiwan in a few years will that be the last one?
Nuking china in response to a conventional attack is begging for you to get nuked in return. Like you're in a bar brawl and take a hit so you draw your knife. Never ends well.
No shit, but annihilating a CSG means WWIII and nukes anyway.
You don't let an adversary take out a $25B+ asset without a MASSIVE response, and I don't think the US has any conventional response that would have similar impact on China EXCEPT for a nuke, or a conventional strike against three gorges dam which would end up killing far more people than a single nuclear attack would.
There's a bit of a range between a nuke and "no response at all" don't you think?
And this thinking that you need to respond directly to an enemy action is bullshit too. When you're in a war, everything you do is meant to harm the enemy. You're not going to do it any more efficiently by introducing tit-for-tat revenge into your decision making. If a carrier is sunk, you eat the loss, redeploy your air power to land bases and proceed to kick chinese ass in the same way you did before.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Its fact that destroying a CSG is a nukeable offense, so good luck trying!
2 years ago
Anonymous
USA won't do shit.
>USA won't do shit >proceeds to have everyone tell him how wrong he is >moves goalposts and tells everyone what the U.S. might do
kys
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not the same guy you dumb Black person. I maintained the position that the US wouldn't respond with nukes to a sunken carrier. Not that they would stop the conventional war effort, run tails between legs and leave east asia to china.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>When you're in a war
we haven't been in a real war in decades
call me when we're dropping millions of tons of ordinance out of b52s and firebombing Dresden, again
All I saw was now fast US carrier ran away like a b***h
2 years ago
Anonymous
All I saw was a plane entering supposed Chinese air space and not getting shot down despite threats
Honest question, will China "win" when our crazed cold war era politicians like Pelosi and Biden croak? We're about to get a bunch of young melinials/zoomers in office who would shit their pants and cry if tiktok is banned so it could be a legit concern.
It's possible, but with Russia possibly collapsing we might see an end to leftist psy ops that caused such weakening.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>US carrier group circles to keep on station during a crisis without becoming a stationary target >They are obviously frightened of China's might.
Honest question, will China "win" when our crazed cold war era politicians like Pelosi and Biden croak? We're about to get a bunch of young melinials/zoomers in office who would shit their pants and cry if tiktok is banned so it could be a legit concern.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The tremoring, liver-spotted hands of a Silent/Boomer slowly henpecked his post one key at a time.
2 years ago
Anonymous
don't worry that's just the childhood lead poisoning leaching out of his dissolving bones
You homosexuals keep forgetting the US goes full tard rage when attacked. Even latte sipping hipsters call for the blood of foreigners when shit happens. Just look at 9/11 and remember how even israelite yorkers went out into the streets singing kumbaya celebrating the death of some sand Black person.
Tl:dr don't be a slant eye when you piss off the US as the 1911 was purpose built to kill squints.
Flips (the first)
Nips
asiatics and chinks
Zipperheads
Chinks (again some day)
>Just look at 9/11 and remember how even israelite yorkers went out into the streets singing kumbaya celebrating the death of some sand Black person.
This, post 9/11 psychosis was some real shit
People who don't have freedom cope by claiming the boot on their neck is virtuous and that their enemies are just soft for not having a boot on their neck. Tojo said all the same shit word for word about the US being too comfortable, too soft, not having the stomach for war, that if you slapped the US' nose it would seek peace. The key thing these people never understand is the difference the US population has when reacting to a good casus belli versus a war that is seen as wasteful, pointless, and our fault.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anglos are inherently the most bloodthirsty and violent race, but their education and morals hold them back most of the time.
Thus when a righteous cause is found, they destroy their enemy with the pent up bloodlust of generations, and give no mercy
God bless America
What has happened EVERY FRICKING TIME someone fricked with our boats. The last time it happened we cracked open an entirely new branch of technology on them
Chinese coast guard patrolled north pacific, bullying us fishing boats for 6 month and your navy didn't do shit
2 years ago
Anonymous
did China sink any of them?
just being in the same ocean doesn't count as 'bullying' regardless of how much you want to larp as having force projection dingus
2 years ago
Anonymous
>2 warships. >zero observed interactions of any kind with any US vessels >immediately shit themselves and run home when approached by a virtually unarmed USCG cutter.
China is the most pathetic nation ever to exist
2 years ago
Anonymous
don't forget they also got BTFOd by the Vietnamese coast guard
Nonsense. Noone's going to start the apocalypse (because by the time china has finished their current nuclear armament programme, that's what it will mean) over a military asset that the US has 11 of, in a war that won't even reach american territory. You may claim so, but it's a bluff and the chinese will call it.
>You may claim so, but it's a bluff and the chinese will call it.
We flew one of our least liked politicians into chink airspace and all they did was seethe over it.
Chinsects won't do shit
Again, fricking try it chang. You want a third of southern China underwater? Millions homeless and millions more starving? Three gorges dam is just a wobbly kneecap waiting for the baseball bat of freedom.
Don't test us.
>Don't do totally normally things in war or we'll FRICKING NUKE YOU I pinky swear promise
Literally russian tier. Just as pathetic, just as toothless.
And I'm not chinese either btw. Just not interested in getting revenge nuked because someone couldn't stomach a sunken ship.
2 years ago
Anonymous
We aren't at war with China
If China starts a war by using OPs missiles to attack a CSG, expect hellfire and brimstone
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're the same kind of pussy that would also say we shouldn't nuke China even if they nuke us first.
>well it was ONLY one nuke, we can't risk escalating the conflict further by nuking them back
Again, fricking try it chang. You want a third of southern China underwater? Millions homeless and millions more starving? Three gorges dam is just a wobbly kneecap waiting for the baseball bat of freedom.
And those carriers were a lot cheaper than current carriers.
The largest carrier Japan sunk in WWII "only" cost about $25-30M USD (around $500M in 2022)
A bargain compared to the current $11-13B cost of the GRF-class boats, not to mention their planes also cost a lot more these days, pretty sure they plan to have 3-4 dozen F-35s and a good dozen+ other planes, probably adding another $5B+ in value. Not to mention all the crew training and shit which costs a frick ton to get a crew fully trained.
Sinking a modern carrier would be an incredibly heavy blow to the US in power projection capability but also just in pure economic damage.
If chinks can reliably attack surface vessels with long-range ballistic (HGV optional) missiles, then they can reliably deny CSG operations. There really is no way around it. Can they do it, and if not when can they do it, if ever, are the real questions.
Attacking a CSG would not be a decision taken lightly, and before it could even be envisioned the chinks would need to have a reliable nuclear deterrent or 2nd strike capability. Attacking 3 gorges realistically needs nukes anyways because it's a frickmassive gravity dam
>implying the B-52 will go thought hundreds of SAM and the 2nd largest air force in the world.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is why I mentioned the B-2
also the B-21 is supposed to be able carry at least 1 of them as well, or a rocket-assisted derivative bunker buster with similar destructive capabilities.
2 years ago
Anonymous
2nd largest Airforce in the world is the US Navy, 3rd largest is the Marine Corps
And yes, given the combat performance of Slav SAMs (Chinese are the same or worse) I am fully confident that we would smoke China militarily and barely break a sweat.
2 years ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/tohyRS7.png
You mean the Navy? I love the Navy!
also https://www.livescience.com/navy-ufo-videos-national-security-threat
>2nd largest Airforce in the world is the US Navy
Yes, 10 years ago you boomer. PLA air-force is the 50% bigger than the US navy airforce.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes but US pilots have 2-3x the flight hours and our planes are just all around better.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Yes but US pilots have 2-3x the flight hours and our planes are just all around better.
Yes, 10 years ago.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The PLAAF is only the second largest air force if you count 3rd-generation fighters (when in any potential conflict, they'd only be a way for USN pilots' to stat-pad)
2 years ago
Anonymous
You mean the Navy? I love the Navy!
also https://www.livescience.com/navy-ufo-videos-national-security-threat
I'm not a dam expert but I think you need fairly massive breaches to have large scale destruction downstream. In any case, an attack on 3 gorges is realistically equivalent to a nuclear attack so policy wise its irrelevant whether it's conventional or not. From an american point of view what matters is can the chinks launch a nuclear counterstrike.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Dams fail all the time from even minor structural failures due to the force of the water causing even more damage as it collapses. Any uncontrolled breach can lead to a catastrophic failure.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You don't need massive breaches to destroy a dam. You don't even need a "breach" in the common meaning of the term. The whole point of a dam is to store gravitational potential energy so it can be converted to kinetic energy. Any minor damage to the dam that allows even a minimal amount of that energy to be unleashed outside of the specifically designed pathways will cause a catastrophic failure of the dam in short order. This is why even minor overtopping to the tune of ~2"-4" can (and has) collapsed entire dams before.
The difference between attacking the 3 Gorges with a conventional or a nuclear assault isn't so much about the initial attack, but whether you want to blanket a third of the country (and eventually the ocean) with irradiated floodwater. MacArthur got shitcanned for wanting to salt the Yalu with cobalt, and this would be only barely less ecologically destructive.
>t. engineer who stopped a couple classes short of a minor in nuclear engineering
I'm not a dam expert but I think you need fairly massive breaches to have large scale destruction downstream. In any case, an attack on 3 gorges is realistically equivalent to a nuclear attack so policy wise its irrelevant whether it's conventional or not. From an american point of view what matters is can the chinks launch a nuclear counterstrike.
My buddies and I did the math a while back. The best way to remove the damn is smuggling in a SF diver team with a nuclear demolition charge to the base of the damn on the wet side. The water would attenuate the radiation burst to the point of non existence will so blowing the thing to pieces
>If China comes up with a reliable anti-[weapon] system then [weapon] is obsolete.
How can the US possibly defeat China's militarized tautology capabilities?!?
???
It would not be at all difficult to launch conventional strikes on important military infrastructure against China, given it's almost all on the fricking coast. Three Gorges if we really want to be extra spicy about it.
>You don't let an adversary take out a $25B+ asset without a MASSIVE response,
You're forgetting that it would be a voluntary war on America's side, just like the invasion of Ukraine is voluntary for Russia.
Just as there is no reason for Russia to resort to nukes to win Ukraine since it's not theirs in the first place; there's no reason for the US to resort to nukes to force an invasion of China.
The US loses all its carriers. It retreats back to its borders. The world moves on.
The US is still secure from invasion. China has proven itself secure from American invasion. They still have to worry about the 1 billion Indians on their border, though.
>The US loses all its carriers. It retreats back to its borders.
If China engages in an act of aggression like striking US carriers, the US won't retreat back to its borders. There will be a total blockade - not embargo, blockade - of China. No grain shipments in. No export shipments out. Any ship heading to China is sunk and any ship trying to leave is sunk, until China collapses into starvation and civil war.
>If China engages in an act of aggression
Why the frick would China engage in an act of aggression? They have no plans to invade the US.
It's the US that's trying to contain China, not China that's trying to contain the US. The US would be the one starting the war of aggression.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The most likely scenario of China starting shit first against the US would be if China decides to try and pre-emptively attack a US CSG before invading Taiwan to annihilate any sort of fast response by US naval airpower in the pacific and instead forcing either south Korea or japan to respond, both nations who aren't really within range to provide much air power. Japan has their 2 helicopter carriers with F-35's now, but that isn't anywhere near the same level of power a CSG can exert.
That's the most likely scenario of china doing a preemptive strike against a US carrier.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No reason to preemptively strike when it's a sitting duck anywhere.
>China invades Taiwan >US says, "YOU CAN'T INVADE WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION!" and proceeds to prepare a war of aggression. >China says, "Frick off, this is none of your concern." >US moves carriers into position. >China warns them off >US launches strike package >China sinks the battle group.
Now the US is no longer in any position to prosecute a war of aggression against China.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Invade sovereign nation >Their allies defend them >WAR OF AGGRESSION WAR OF AGGRESSION
I cannot wait to see the shitty, Soviet + Guanxi corruption culture of China fail militarily just as badly as Russia has.
2 years ago
Anonymous
you wont do shit
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're missing the steps that leads to the ROC flag flying over Beijing again
2 years ago
Anonymous
>10 other CBGs rape every Chinese flag or traveling vessel to death >800 million Chinese become dinner for the other 200 million in 6 months.
2 years ago
Anonymous
10 more CBCs get sunk. USA complaints like a b***h.
Bulk of US navy is outdated, your 40yr old ships are gonna get btfo
2 years ago
Anonymous
Your shit is derived from reverse-engineering a
40-year-old Soviet carrier which was a piece of shit when it was new. At least trying using one of your non-CATOBAR, diesel-powered glorified ski jumps in a non-scripted training exercise before you decide the destruction of the entire Imperial Japanese Navy must have been a fluke.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Why the frick would China engage in an act of aggression?
The only way there will be a conflict between China and the USA is if China engages in an act of aggression, such as a second attempt at helping North Korea annex South Korea, or an attempt to annex Taiwan. The USA has no reason to engage in any act of aggression against China, so any scenario where China attacks an American aircraft carrier is by default in one of the many plausible scenarios where China tries to throw its weight around and attack innocent neighbouring countries.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The USA has no reason to engage in any act of aggression against China
Wrong. White supremacy is a driving force.
The US, UK, and AUS all have the majority of their forces around China right now for the sole reason of containing the only non-white nation that can challenge the white hegemony. China threatens none of them, none of them live in that half of the world, yet their militaries are all off China's coast.
If there was no reason to engage in any act of aggression, their fleets would all be home.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Posturing to stop Chinese expansion isn't aggression.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If the Chinese surrounded Hawaii and threatened to sink any ship that left, you wouldn't consider that an aggressive act?
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's not at all what we're talking about.
The US isn't stopping china from trading or even just normal transit of their military, the US is stopping china from literally building military bases and artificial islands with landing strips.
It's pure blatant expansion into the SEA region.
If china wants to patrol around playing high seas cop, they can. It's when they start expanding to choke off access to certain fisheries or trade routes where it becomes an issue.
The US is playing sea police. China isn't.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So if China surrounded Hawaii and Guam, and told us that all airports and naval bases had to be shut down to reverse our destabilizing expansion into the Pacific, you wouldn't see that as an act of aggression?
2 years ago
Anonymous
What expansion have we done in the pacific since WWII?
We can point to china's RECENT expansion in artificial islands and tiny island military bases.
And again, we aren't surround china demanding them to do anything, we're just asking them to stop expanding and telling them if they attack our allies in the region they're gonna get got.
if you think that means the US is being aggressive, just try it chang I can't wait to show you real aggression.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What does it matter when it was? That would seem to just be an arbitrary distinction in favor of the status quo -- a status quo that quite conveniently favors the US.
Did China get a veto over our armed fortress *ahem* "embassy" in Iraq? Do they get a veto over our piracy in Persian Gulf or the Gulf of Mexico, where we seize weapons and medicine we don't like?
Quite convenient that the US can expand to every corner of the globe but China can't come out of its coastal waters.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Did China get a veto
No. Because they suck ass, and have no ability to stop us from doing whatever we want. We have the ability to stop China from doing what it wants, therefore we do so.
Morals are a fricking stupid argument to make when considering geopolitics dumbass. >But muh American pigdogs are cheating
Yes we are. Get fricked.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Morals are a fricking stupid argument to make when considering geopolitics dumbass.
Yet you need to coach evil in lies to get any support.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, because the status quo is the exact opposite of destabilizing. When you are dredging to build islands and expand your EEZ, you are being a destabilizing influence. Meanwhile, the US hasn't engaged in territorial expansion in the region since 1898, when it got Wake Island (save for a few Japanese islands, which were managed after the war and given back in the late 60s and early 70s). More than that, it's been reducing its Pacific footprint, creating entire countries in the process - the Philippines in 1946 and the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands in 1986.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>arbitrary distinction in favor of the status quo
This is literally the foundation of all international relations.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Did China get a veto over our armed fortress *ahem* "embassy" in Iraq?
Yes, they did, because that's literally how the UN works.
>Iraq was in compliance >US decided to invade anyway >Nowhere in the resolution is there authorization for the US to take over Iraq
So exactly when did China have a veto over the unilateral decision to attack and take over a country that was in compliance with the resolution they voted in favor of?
2 years ago
Anonymous
They got to say their piece. It's just that the UN is as useless stopping us as it is everyone else.
Frick I hate that institution. Why couldn't those fricking Saudis crashed into that too?
2 years ago
Anonymous
So the point remains, that China would be just as justified in sinking US carriers and carpet bombing the US over its invasion of Iraq as the US would be justified in attacking China over its invasion of Taiwan.
2 years ago
Anonymous
"For every injustice the US commits, China gets to commit one injustice of equal or greater value."
No one on Earth will buy your moral relativist bullshit and "but muh American hypocrisy!" won't mean you can invade Taiwan without getting sanctioned/cruise missiled so hard it makes the Great Leap Forward and the Era of Unequal Treaties seem like a golden age for China.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>>Iraq was in compliance
"Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction, but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops during the 1990–1991 invasion and occupation." >>US decided to invade anyway
It was confirmation that our stated causus belli was factually correct.
in the resolution is there authorization for the US to take over Iraq
True. But it did confirm that our stated casus belli was factually correct. It also did not specify what would happen in the event Iraq did not comply with the resolution's demands, nor that any actions taken would first have to be confirmed by the security council. It did not authorize the use of military force, but it did not specify that it could not be used. >So exactly when did China have a veto over the unilateral decision to attack and take over a country that was in compliance with the resolution they voted in favor of?
Again, the resolution literally said Iraq was not complying with existing UN resolutions or the terms of the 1991 ceasefire. Resolution 1441 was unanimously passed by all 15 members of the security council, including China. If China had elected to use its veto, the resolution would have failed even if it were 14-to-1. Arguing that China had no idea that the resolution might lead to war requires the PRC's leadership to have the naivety and intelligence of a child.
Did the resolution authorize the war? No.
Could China have unilaterally stopped the US from using it to justify war? Yes. All they had to do is say the words, "China votes against the resolution." They didn't but now conveniently use it as a justification for unilaterally invading Taiwan--- without a UN resolution.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's pure blatant expansion into the SEA region.
ASEAN said China is no threat and SEA economy need China, then told USA to frick off during the Shangri-la forum.
American plebs are delusional.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Black person ASEAN is dysfuctional and fricking impotent. It's just a club of frickers doing frick all and turning a blind eye to eachother's countries. SEA needs China, which is exactly the fricking advantage China's fricking with to build whatever the frick they want.
I'd rather get fricked by Uncle Sam than get a smile from Ching Chong Chang.
If your mother called you a slanted homosexual would that be true?
2 years ago
Anonymous
SEABlack folk would the first on their knees begging Americans
>or a conventional strike against three gorges dam which would end up killing far more people than a single nuclear attack would
There's your answer. China has a glass jaw.
I doubt it. So the Pentagon would say that china killing 5k American sailors would warrant obliteration of all major cities in china and the US ending both countries as we know it? We would respond with continued conventional means before that point
Hitting civilian targets to cause civilian casualties is almost as provocative as nukes. The US will target military infrastructure in return for the sinking of a CSG.
In theory it shouldn't, in practice 5000 US sailors dying in the blink of an eye would make the public bay for blood.
What I could see would be some immediate and aggressive conventional non-nuclear bombing of chinese military assets all about the South China Sea. Their artificial islands, their naval groups, some mainland chinese naval facilities. Just full on cutting edge best of the best missiles or stealth bombers or UAVs or whatever. Shock-and-Awe tier.
A Carrier group won't get them killing millions of chinese civilians. It'll just, unless we are as rotten and shitty as Russia the paper tiger proved to be, make us go rabid-dog and smash the shit out of every Chinese military target available. Which is why China has to decide a very precise moment when they feel they can get away with anything.
That said it would likely spiral into some kind of WW3. Maybe not a nuclear one but you'd see China going full tilt nutjob - imprisoning every American they can get their hands on in China (or lynching them), seizing every American-associated economic asset, hacking/cyber warfare out the ass to the mainland US.
A carrier strike group sunk by these missiles would be neutralized and any reinforcing CSG would suffer the same fate. Only long flight bombardments from land airports would be able to harm china thats to little for that extensive bombing campaign you talk about, it wouldn't be possible.
>China will not risk a war when attacked and being in a war, the post
so I guess they will just let the US invade and occupy China in order to avoid a war
Then why don't the US sent their Carrier group like in 1996?
Also China is now regularly patrolling the Alaska coast and bully US fishing boat, the US can't do shit.
>Waaaa, why didn't the enemy do exactly what I wanted them to do!
You're going to have a bad time with this mindset in a real war.
Also your body-kit Pershing 2s aren't scaring anyone until you can get terminal guidance on a moving target worked out. The CEP natively sucks, and a carrier can move almost five miles in any direction from launch detection to impact. Whoops.
And people are mentioning nukes because you can't tell the difference between an ICBM and a HGV until well after launch has been detected by the Americans. Who are known to have Launch On Warning doctrine. Smoothbrain move on China's part, as usual.
>Doesn't my nth gay-ass technology mean carriers are obsolete. I'm completely neglecting missile defense, electronic warfare, or suppression by long-range bombers, cruise missiles, or ballistic missiles btw
The US navy is always 30 years ahead of the curve when it comes to what they allow the public to see. For all we know they are developing super powerful lasers that can take advantage of the nuclear reactor on the carrier, or some super advanced CWIS system, or whatever. Lockheed was fricking around with an f35 prototype in the Nevada desert in the fricking 90s
>The US navy is always 30 years ahead of the curve when it comes to what they allow the public to see
Yeah. They were already as gay as the rest of America is now in the late 80’s.
The next level showing of sodomy in the pipe is bound to be a gale changer from the diaper mutts.
>gale changer from the diaper mutts >Enemies of the USN aspirate on their own vomit when they roll out PROJECT: UH OH STINKY and project the stench of a furry convention through new wind-manipulation devices
No, they require satellite guidance in order to hit ships, of which they have 4, all of which the US could easily destroy. Meanwhile America is building UFOs.
To be honest, anti-ship missiles make almost every kind of combat ship uneconomical.
I'd more see as a winning strategy China being able to outproduce the US in -cheap- munition, with the US carrier group not having enough ammo to keep up the defense and being destroyed before they can resupply.
However that would only keep the battle away from China.
Once the US establish a protected supply line and China supply line get sniped by stealth missiles they can't intercept the attrition change side.
I expect Submarine warfare to go essentially the same way but more in favor of the US. New software being good enough to make submarine stealth worthless so everything become a question of who can mass produce torpedoes and UUV-drones to swarm the opponent.
This is no longer WWII when weapon production pace was on par with the rate at which they are destroyed.
We could build 400 aircraft per month, now we are extremely happy if we can produce 1 modern aircraft per month.
That’s why DEWs (Direct energy weapons) are so crucial in a war of attrition and probably why the DoD shelved its rail gun efforts to put the focus on lasers and shit. Man I can’t wait to eat some fried bugs
Ask yourself this
Why does the DF-17 make CSGs obsolete, but other ballistic missiles don't?
Do you understand that BGV hypersomic ballistics were done in the 1940s? Then nobody touched them for years because they offer only marginal advantages over conventional ballistics with far more cost.
They no more have made CSGs obsolete than existing ballistic missiles that China and everyone else already had.
Kek in 2001 my Chinese Foreign Policy prof told us about how his parentsij China would have to attend mandatory military training and they'd be laughing at how the bullets would strike their targets sideways. I'm glad that 40 years laters nothing has changed.
Sadly, this is not keyholing, but recoiling rounds from the wall behind the target. You can see it for yourself:
Start at 7s.
At 8s, a barely visible hole appears on the rightmost part of the right eyebrow (your right)
At 9s, the recoiling bullet exits and creats the keyhole
You fricking moron, you're suggesting 2 full seconds for a bullet to ricochet 15 cm, and for that ricochet bullet to be FULLY INTACT.
You fricking mong.
Look at the keyholes. The edges go inwards from our perspective, as if the holes were made from a projectile striking the front. If it was caused by ricochet, the edges would be coming towards us.
Further, it is hard to believe that the bullets were not deformed by striking concrete.
>Noguns zhangs who have never shot anything before in their life
Your even dumber if you think this is the case. Since ricochets are pretty deadly to people shooting at up close targets. But I'm sure the casualties sustained during training was acceptable.
literally excuses made by someone that's never shot anything in their fricking life. bullets are made of soft fricking lead, if they bounce back like that off cinderblocks they wont even penetrate ballistic plates
If bullets did that anyone shooting in there was going to be catching lead. Considering they all didn't just drop screaming in puddles of blood I highly doubt fmj suddenly became rubber
I think you posted this in good faith, but as a guy who done shoots a lot, you are wrong. This comes down to abysmal chink rifles or wonky chink training ammo.
It is in fact exactly that, it's a caricature of a Uighur, which is a different asian ethnicity up in northern china. Primarily muslim, and in the way of Chinese progress with their belt and road initiative.
The Chinese are selling a lot of promises on hypersonics. One is being able to communicate while in flight. This ability to lets them correct targeting and also receive non-inertial updates will be imperative to these functioning or missing.
If it can't update it can't hit things properly. It also doesn't take into account directed energy weapons, AEGIS self-defense missiles, or other 'chaff' weapons that could defect the weapon.
Also, missiles don't occupy buildings. Ignoring that you start WW3 by sinking a carrier, you also are still across a huge body of water from your goal occupation.
>Don't these make US Carrier strike groups useless in the china sea?
Not really. No more than a rifle makes an infantry man on the battlefield useless.
It'll still take at least 30-50 years before they can actually build up their military AND have enough experience operating naval logistics on a wide-scale with some blue water experience under their belts.
Even if they had the ships to do it right now, it would be dumb because they just don't have much experience operating such a large navy, even more so in an actual war.
China would never attack because they're not going to take over a country with 500 million guns on the other side of the planet.
China would play on its own side of the world, first. If the US gets involved, that's a war of aggression against China which they take care of with antiship missiles. No more US war of aggression and China is free to play.
That's a war of aggression against China just as much as it would've been a war of aggression against the US if China had sunk carriers and carpet bombed Guam because we invaded Afghanistan without their permission.
China can go to war with Taiwan if they please, and they may defend themselves against US aggression.
China's demographics are terminal. They're growing old before they can grow rich enough to support a billion seniors. The covid lockdowns aren't helping, either.
China's economy is literally about to pop, you haven't been following the news at all. They're facing a massive real estate bubble crisis right now that's only getting worse by the day.
Wow, y'all are really about to experience your nation's first ever economic depression without any idea it's coming, aren't you? Here's some advice: the Party's managed to conceal and delay everything for so long without addressing the underlying problems means that when the slump hits, it's going to be a fricking doozy. The PRC has a strong hold over the political system, but strong means brittle, so it might shatter at any point. Given China's recurring problems with mass famine, I'd advise you to stock up on non-perishables. Political chaos (combined with the yuan's value plummeting) will really frick up imports for a long, long time and China's so large any international aid will be a drop in the bucket of what's needed. Even worse, they'll be effects on the entire world economy and everyone else will have problems of their own. The next few years might make the Great Leap Forward seem like a golden age.
>thinking a bubble is too much wealth
you do a lot of projection, don't you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
A bubble just results in a correction. You do not lose any of the wealth.
>Congress starts making noise about gun control. Prices start to go up. You decide now's a good time to sell your AR-15 and cash out. You sell it for $2000 -- $1000 more than you bought it for.. >They guy who bought it sells it for $3000 a week later. >That guy sells it for $4000 a week later. >That guy sells it for $6000 a week later >That guy sells it for $10,000 a week later. >"I've got to get back in on this!" you think. You buy it back for $15,000. >Nothing happens with gun control >prices plummet back to $1000
Is the economy destroyed?
No. The guy you bought it from has his 1000 pieces of paper.
The guy you sold it to has 1000 extra pieces of paper.
The guy he sold it to has 2000 extra pieces of paper
The guy he sold it to has 4000 extra pieces of paper
The guy he sold it to has 5000 extra pieces of paper.
You are down 1000+2000+4000+5000 + the original 1000 purchase = 13,000 pieces of paper
13,000 pieces of paper have been distributed among others, for a net loss of zero pieces of paper.
You have your gun back for a net loss of zero guns.
Nothing has changed except the distribution of paper.
The correction hurt you, while the bubble profited 4 others to the exact combined extent the correction hurt you.
The gun manufacturer having manufactured the gun, creating a valuable item (wealth) does not leave the nation in a poorer state than if he hadn't, simply because a bubble formed around it. The nation is up one gun in wealth and down zero paper.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ah yes, because the correction in the housing market in 2008 did not result in any lost wealth.
Fricking dimwit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
China actually has a government that can do something when the citizens are being stupid.
See Xinjiang.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Like print counterfeit money with the same exact serial number multiple times?
2 years ago
Anonymous
yeah the little bit you're leaving out is this is chinese paper (real estate). remind me again, which industry in China created the "tofu dreg projects" moniker?
you'd get sturdier paper off the ground in Hiroshima on the afternoon of August 6, 1945.
You know the funny part? The USN doesn't technically even *have* to fight in the South China Sea. A task force, with USAF support from Diego Garcia, could interdict almost all shipping to or from China in the Indian Ocean, outside of the range of the DF-17. That means no hydrocarbons, which China needs not just for power and transportation, but also for agriculture. They'd be looking at a severe famine within months, but as a practical matter, their economy would probably collapse within weeks as word got out and people began to panic.
If only there were some way on earth China could possibly get such goods from another source. Unfortunately, all hydrocarbons on Earth travel via the strait of Malacca.
Pretty much. What they get from Russia is entirely from eastern Siberia, not western Siberia. There literally aren't any pipelines running from their primary oil and gas fields to China, and it would take years (*with* Western imports and engineers--far longer without) to build out meaningful capacity across Siberia to China. The TSR doesn't have the spare capacity to make up the difference, either. Plus, there's the small matter that Russia may be effectively losing a large chunk of their oil production next year anyway, because of the sanctions (and perhaps more importantly, the boycotts that pulled the Western engineers out). And finally, there's also the minor issue that China's economy is dependent upon both imports *and* exports, and without access to foreign markets and supply chains, China's economy collapses before it runs out of oil and food, causing chaos.
Most modern nations on Earth don't have 40% of their economy depending on exports and won't have a billion people starve to death if they can't import food by sea. Modern China is a house of cards.
>depending on exports
Uh, you realize that if you don't export, you get to keep the stuff, right?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Uh, you realize that if you don't export, you get to keep the stuff, right?
Yeah go fricking sell black rubber dildos, moronic mousepads and plastic yoyos to your own peasant population who the majority make $1.65 a month instead of to the degenerate West, that will surely balance out their economy. If only the CCP had someone as brilliant as you at their head instead.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Their wealth still gets catapulted to that of the US, while the US becomes a third world nation.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, because a thing is only valuable if someone wants it. China does not want the entire US-bound inventory of Spirit Halloween knickknacks, they want USD. If trade was broken off between China and the US, they would suddenly have a lot of useless shit and very little USD.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes anon, 90% of Chinese exports are spirit Halloween knickknacks
2 years ago
Anonymous
Most of their exports are intermediate stages of manufacturing, like taking a circuit board populated in Taiwan and installing it into a phone chassis made in Thailand. They're mostly coasting on arbitrage, except the calculus for that remaining viable is dying with their demography.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes anon, 90% of Chinese exports are spirit Halloween knickknacks
you're, astoundingly, both kind of correct
the only manufacturing that the US genuinely offshored (Taiwan's status as a nexus of tech manufacturing hasn't really changed all that much, but AFAIK they've been the kings of it for most of the semiconductor transistor era) was plastic forming (it generally comes from refineries in the West) and textiles. the plastic manufacturing was China's specialty, and their economy has been buoyed by idiotic Western oligarchs who saw China's real estate as being as rapid-growth as the CCP reports and thought investing in Chinese real estate would give them their first erection since their geriatric hearts couldn't handle viagra any more
2 years ago
Anonymous
The last I checked, China can't eat smart toasters with bluetooth connectivity
Oh, don't get me wrong--the PLAN could still cause all kinds of problems in the short term, but the CCP has to recognize that it's not a winning hand in the long run, and escalating to nukes just gets them nuked right back. Would you gamble your country, your people, your cushy life at the top of the pyramid on having to roll boxcars multiple times in a row?
It's not a foolproof deterrent--nothing is--but it's something the CCP has to keep in mind: the US, if sufficiently annoyed, can shut down over 99% of all sea trade to and from Chinese ports within a few hours to a few days of the order being given, depending on where assets are and which legal channels are used to compel other nations (and international maritime insurance providers) to comply.
US can't even maintain it's own navy, except for carriers it has less modern warship than the PLAN.
Tico and Burke II are fricking outdated compared to 052D and 055. No ASAR radar no ASBM. Americans plebs don't even realize how behind they are, but you generals are, that's why you won't do shit.
>Hey guys we're gonna go indefinitely blockade China and completely implode the global economy 50x worse than 2008 or Covid ever did, that fine with everyone? >Yeah sure man go ahead
Anon, decisions like thst aren't made without contingencies in mind and a pivot away from China has been happening for the past decade with COVID cementing that.
The US might not be able to move as quickly and open the pocketbook quite as deep as the EU for bullshit economic warfare, but they can do just fine.
Why does every "Here's how China wins" scenario revolve around them building n+1 missiles with none of the supporting capabilities needed to effectively use them, nor the assets to follow up on their purported effects, with the US military suddenly embracing technological stasis during the years it will take for China to mass-produce their "we somehow managed to make sensors that can penetrate a shroud of blinding plasma and no we won't demonstrate this capability in a way you can verify" superweapon?
It's literally, China wins because it has a magic "China wins" button.
>The only place you can take out a loan at is your local fricking bank. >Local bank takes the funds you pay in and uses it for a bigger bank in the region. >Bigger bank lends it into national companies. >National companies claim they're doing massive projects for investments (But they never finish them and just start up another one for claims) and "pays" into the national bank. >National bank disburses everything back down >It's supposed to go to the local bank to give you more money and others loans.
Is it just a ponzi scheme in China?
I doubt China is building carriers to use them on anyone who has DF-17's.
There's a major difference between thinking they might be useful for "shaping relations" with Third World nations and thinking they'll be useful in peer conflicts with global superpowers.
No, based on the effectiveness of modern AA against Soviet derived systems in Ukraine right now, I'd say it instead makes you wonder if China needs to rethink their war plans. Instead, those launchers are big, juicy targets for more agile systems and laughable unless you're bigger than the entire CSG pierside.
Is Multirole/navy bombers group are better anti ship missiles ?
No, based on the effectiveness of modern AA against Soviet derived systems in Ukraine right now, I'd say it instead makes you wonder if China needs to rethink their war plans. Instead, those launchers are big, juicy targets for more agile systems and laughable unless you're bigger than the entire CSG pierside.
Guess what happens if the Chinks attack or especially manage to sink a US carrier.
Think about it man.
It starts with Nu... and ends with clear combat until no motherfricking chinkoid is alive anymore
>Guess what happens if the Chinks attack or especially manage to sink a US carrier.
USA stay silent. Iran just bombed your consulate and your base this year, the USA said there was no death and didn't do shit.
Aren't these hypersonic glide weapons that can barely maneuver in the air and are easily targeted by kinetic destruction systems?
The reason the US hasn't invested in hypersonics is that they mostly suck ass unless you put a nuke on them, and we already have ICBMs for that. We're trying to build an air-breathing, maneuverable hypersonic missile for the prompt global strike program, but said missile is not finished and is not likely to be finished for a few years.
The US first fielded these hypersonic glide missiles in like the fricking 80s and realized that they had way too many downsides back then.
>easily targeted
Bullshit, call me shill if you must but the very point of "hypersonic glide" is that no/less anti-missile can launch and intercept them in time.
ICBM are literally named so for being ballistic, they don't maneuver at all, and are more easily intercepted.
The US only made hypersonic missiles, not missile capable of maneuvers. We don't need them for nuclear deterrence simply because we have too many nuke anyway, it will get through by sheer number.
However for anti-ship purpose, being able to produce even a few of those missiles would be perfect. As long as you can produce more of those than the enemy have warship and get a superior kill, this is a win. You can't replace a warship in a week or a month.
>easily targeted
Bullshit, call me shill if you must but the very point of "hypersonic glide" is that no/less anti-missile can launch and intercept them in time.
ICBM are literally named so for being ballistic, they don't maneuver at all, and are more easily intercepted.
The US only made hypersonic missiles, not missile capable of maneuvers. We don't need them for nuclear deterrence simply because we have too many nuke anyway, it will get through by sheer number.
However for anti-ship purpose, being able to produce even a few of those missiles would be perfect. As long as you can produce more of those than the enemy have warship and get a superior kill, this is a win. You can't replace a warship in a week or a month.
USA is behind China in hypersonic missiles because they decommissioned their hypersonic wind tunnel after the old war.
Also warhead like the Pershing 2 is very different from df21 or df17, comparing them is moronic.
>USA is behind China in hypersonic missiles because
No. The reason the US has mostly abandoned hypersonics is because they don't fit into American military doctrine.
The entire point of hypersonic missiles is to hit a target fast enough that its defenses can't react to stop it, but the US already has something that fills that niche far better and for far less money (see picrel). Which is the better option, the missile that lights up like a fricking Christmas tree the moment it's launched, can't guide itself, can barely maneuver, and looks indistinguishable from a ballistic nuclear missile strike, or the small stealthy missile that you can't see on radar until it's right on top of you?
Those missiles are cope. Ship based asbm out range them and they are not that more stealthy than sea skimmers.
China already has lrasm equivalent, they ground effect missile that stays just 1m above water.
Hypersonic missiles are hard to detect, such speed come with a plasma sheath which is why guiding them is extra hard.
US love their stealth but the main reason it work is because they keep using it against countries with lesser technology than Soviet. Those "stealth missiles" also need to use the terrain or they'll still light-up even on Russian radar.
Not saying the Russian aren't coping with missiles they can't actually produce in high number, or at all, after sanction.
The real danger will come from China is they can overcome the Mao's sheep mentality that keep them from innovating.
>US love their stealth but the main reason it work is because they keep using it against countries with lesser technology than Soviet
This is and has always been a massive cope. It relies on the assumption that Chinese radars have some magical quality that will allow it to see though stealth better than all of the American radars it was tested against and deemed sufficient to overcome.
>USA is behind China in hypersonic missiles because
No. The reason the US has mostly abandoned hypersonics is because they don't fit into American military doctrine.
The entire point of hypersonic missiles is to hit a target fast enough that its defenses can't react to stop it, but the US already has something that fills that niche far better and for far less money (see picrel). Which is the better option, the missile that lights up like a fricking Christmas tree the moment it's launched, can't guide itself, can barely maneuver, and looks indistinguishable from a ballistic nuclear missile strike, or the small stealthy missile that you can't see on radar until it's right on top of you?
Stealth just make you difficult to target, it's easy to detect stealth. Lrasm is subsonic, so quite vulnerable to ciws.
Lol, looks like I struck a nerve. >know something is there using wide band radar >don't know exactly where it is >or what it is >or how far away it is >or how fast it's going >or in what direction >or how many there are >all the radar bands you could use to determine those things don't work on it
>but hey, you "detected" it
...or maybe the cope is that American have magical paint that nullify laws of physics and make the extreme heat of jet engine disappear?
Already combat proven against the best AA systems Russia has to offer in Syria. Cope in whatever way you feel necessary.
>Hypersonic missiles are hard to detect, such speed come with a plasma sheath which is why guiding them is extra hard.
Plasma sheath stealth is a meme that only brainlets believe in. It's very dependent on the temperature of the missile body. The Zircon, for example, reaches ~4000 Kelvin at altitude and speed. At 4000 Kelvin, plasma shield can block 1 Ghz and lower but SPY-1 operates at S band: 2-4 Ghz, APG-81 and APG-79 operate at X band: 8-12 Ghz, SPY-6 operates at S/X band: 2-4 Ghz and 8-12 Ghz, SPY-3 operates at 8-12 Ghz, MPQ-53 operates at C band: 4-8 Ghz, AIM-120 and SM-6 seeker operates in I/J band: 8-20 Ghz. All of them are higher than 1 Ghz, so the plasma shield is useless. Zircon can fly Mach 9 at 30 km altitude, doesn't mean it can do the same at 1 km altitude. Depending on the materials in which the body is made of, if they're using passive, active, or ablative cooling, etc. Plasma is an easy, easy problem to solve. Also, space based IR sensors can, and do, track hypersonic missiles of all types. >US love their stealth but the main reason it work is because they keep using it against countries with lesser technology than Soviet.
China's radar tech is literally Soviet and Russian knock-offs. They're so shit at building radars that they contracted Russia to build their Early Warning Radar System. >Those "stealth missiles" also need to use the terrain or they'll still light-up even on Russian radar.
Proof?
>China's radar tech is literally Soviet and Russian knock-offs. They're so shit at building radars that they contracted Russia to build their Early Warning Radar System.
boomer cope. reminder than the 90s was 30 yrs ago
2 years ago
Anonymous
>reminder than the 90s was 30 yrs ago
Learn Engrish, Ping Ling. If China can make better radars, why are they contracting the design and construction of the Early Warning Radar System to Russia?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>30 years ago
?
You mean 3? The system he's talking about is 3 years old. You didn't have any LPAR system until Russia built it for you.
Isn't exactly clear when the system started coming online, but it's been visible on google maps for 3 years.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Helping =/= building
Radar and engines on Chinese jets and ships have been domestic radars for years and is considered superiors to the Russian.
China already surpassed Russia in the 2010s.
https://i.imgur.com/K4GpFns.jpg
>prove me it's a copy. similar shape is a brianlet argument.
It uses the same terminal guidance radar as the Pershing II, the same flight profile as the Pershing II, is around the same weight as the Pershing II, and has the same range as the Pershing II. It's a Pershing II copy, only 20 years later.
https://www.chinasignpost.com/2010/12/26/china-deploys-worlds-first-long-range-land-based-carrier-killer-df-21d-anti-ship-ballistic-missile-asbm-reaches-initial-operational-capability-ioc/ >US navy ran away from the south china sea in 2020 because of it you moronic boomer.
Proof? >MUH BOOMER
Are you 12?
>It uses the same terminal guidance radar as the Pershing II
prove it. flight profile and weight doesn't prove anything about guidance
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Helping =/= building
Frick off, homosexual. You're using Russian radars. You can't detect an incoming nuke without Russia's help.
Rest of your post is the usual Chinese lies, you overwhelmingly rely on Russian engines or Chinese direct copies and you will continue to use majority Russian tech in most of those systems for years.
2 years ago
Anonymous
cope
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yup, that's what you're doing. Pretend anyone reading this is thinking about anything other than the fact that you're mad that you still use Russian tech instead of your own.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>t.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It has the same radar diameter, same remaining volume for power generating and signal processing, it has the same volume for a warhead, same time-to-target, same launch signature same aerodynamics,etc.
2 years ago
Anonymous
but it does have chink software sometimes
2 years ago
Anonymous
>prove it. flight profile and weight doesn't prove anything about guidance
Cope, Ping Ling. Now, get back to the call center. Can you show me one Chinese produced scramjet? Just one.
>engines on Chinese jets
It took you 40 years to copy the CFM-56II and produce the WS-10A - which still only has an abysmal 1500 life cycle before complete overhaul. The WS-15 isn't ever going to be flown on the J-20.
>domestic radars for years and is considered superiors to the Russian.
Proof?
>China already surpassed Russia in the 2010s.
Then why do they need to contract a Russian company to produce their Early Warning Radar System?
>USA is behind China in hypersonic missiles because they decommissioned their hypersonic wind tunnel after the old war.
No, we didn't. What is The Hypersonic Tunnel Facility (HTF) at NASA’s Neil A. Armstrong Test Facility?
>Here from 1968: A BGRV was launched on February 26, 1968, from Vandenberg Air Force Base by an Atlas F to the area of Wake Island in the Pacific.
Link: https://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/B/BGRV.html
>HyFly Mach 6 Scramjet Missile Test
Link: https://thefutureofthings.com/5667-hyfly-mach-6-scramjet-missile-test/
>HIFIRE/HyCAUSE Scramjet Mach-8+ success with Australia/USA collaboration 2017
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKipc5LpCU
>Advancing Hypersonics –Aerojet Rocketdyne’s Scramjet Engine Makes Hypersonics History
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YJyBf8x83Q
>Hypersonic missile successfully hits Ronald Reagan
MACH8 Link: https://www.theregister.com/Print/2011/11/18/hypersonic_weapon_pacific_test/
>In November 2011, AHW was launched from the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Kauai, Hawaii, to the Reagan Test Site on the Marshall Islands. The glide vehicle successfully hit the target, which is located about 3,700km away from the launch site.
Link: https://www.army-technology.com/projects/advanced-hypersonic-weapon-ahw/
>Department of Defense Tests Hypersonic Glide Body March 2020
Link: https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/2119458/department-of-defense-tests-hypersonic-glide-body/
Short vid in this link: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35369/army-shows-first-ever-footage-of-new-hypersonic-missile-in-flight-and-impacting
>What is The Hypersonic Tunnel Facility (HTF) at NASA’s Neil A. Armstrong Test Facility? >Mach 7
That's pathetic. You need mach 10-20 wind tunnel to properly test ASBM. China has hypersonic wind tunnel that goes to mach 30.
https://i.imgur.com/W6JfxXQ.png
>Also warhead like the Pershing 2 is very different from df21 or df17, comparing them is moronic.
The DF-21D is a literal copy of the Pershing II, down to the terminal radar guidance.
brainlet won't can't into engineering
>China tested those against moving target ships lol.
So, you can show me the test of the DF-17 hitting a moving ship?
show me test of US missile and ciws intercepting ASBM
>You need mach 10-20 wind tunnel to properly test ASBM.
NASA (NG) HYPULSE can do up to Mach 40, no problem there.
https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2020/Q4/purdue-hypersonics-receives-boost-from-northrop-grumman-shock-tunnel-donation.html >China has hypersonic wind tunnel that goes to mach 30.
The JF-22 isn't even operational yet, brainlet. Come back when they actually do some testing with it. The JF-12 is only Mach 5-9. Also, can you show me just one scramjet China has produced?
>brainlet won't can't into engineering
It's a literal copy. Prove otherwise.
>show me test of US missile and ciws intercepting ASBM
Once you show me the DF-17 or DF-21D hitting a moving target.
>It's a literal copy.
prove me it's a copy. similar shape is a brianlet argument.
>Once you show me the DF-17 or DF-21D hitting a moving target.
US navy ran away from the south china sea in 2020 because of it you moronic boomer.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>prove me it's a copy. similar shape is a brianlet argument.
It uses the same terminal guidance radar as the Pershing II, the same flight profile as the Pershing II, is around the same weight as the Pershing II, and has the same range as the Pershing II. It's a Pershing II copy, only 20 years later.
https://www.chinasignpost.com/2010/12/26/china-deploys-worlds-first-long-range-land-based-carrier-killer-df-21d-anti-ship-ballistic-missile-asbm-reaches-initial-operational-capability-ioc/ >US navy ran away from the south china sea in 2020 because of it you moronic boomer.
Proof? >MUH BOOMER
Are you 12?
Neat, can you show me it actually intercepting ANYTHING?
The AEGIS is very capable, and is the only PROVEN ABMS in the world. AEGIS will BTFO of any chinsect missile those impotent sub-humans decide to launch. Not to mention, our IR sats can detect missile launches as soon as they light off(see pic). Then, the Ohio Class will be shoving Trident IIs up China's ass, as soon as it detects the first nuked launch. Then comes the Air Force with the Minuteman III to finish the bugs off.
USS John Finn (DDG-113) Missile Intercept(SM-3 Block IIA): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJ9c6ZSyqI
USS LAKE ERIE (CG 70) Missile Intercept(SM-3 Block IIA): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpX0EwO5SkE
USS LAKE ERIE (CG 70) Satellite shoot down(SM-3 Block IB): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UahioUnMHHc
Here take your pick, we have many: https://www.youtube.com/user/AegisBMD/videos
THAAD:
A THAAD in Alaska intercepted a missile launched just north of Hawaii. Flight Test THAAD (FTT)-18: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGEdLW5ddcE
THAAD Terminal High Altitude Area Defense missile system 14th TEST: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S65JESDwUTU
The U.S. Missile Defense Agency, conducted an intercept test of the THAAD. This was flight test THAAD-23 on August 30, 2019: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0zqSUqUuCI
round Based Interceptor (GBI)
MDA video of their test of the Ground-Based Midcourse Defense's (GMD) Ground Based Interceptor (GBI) upgraded booster vehicle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtzVC4LXtsE
Anti-Ballistic Ground Based Interceptor Missile Knocks Out Intercontinental Ballistic Missile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5dXTUhPwB8
>Also warhead like the Pershing 2 is very different from df21 or df17, comparing them is moronic.
The DF-21D is a literal copy of the Pershing II, down to the terminal radar guidance.
Oh, well no, that isn't the point. Defenses like the SM-3 rely on faster interception because they need to hit an incoming warhead while the warhead is still in space. This means the SM-3 must launch soon after the ballistic missile does, and the flight path of the ballistic missile must be predicted (which is easy, the hard part is detecting it accurately in a short period of time). There's nothing the warhead can do because the SM-3 warhead is just a rod with thrusters and light sensors. A heavy warhead would need ridiculous thrusters of its own to dodge an SM-3, it's just not logical.
A glider doesn't spend much time in space, it comes back down to atmosphere so it can change course. You still need to widely lead the glider to intercept it, but now you can't predict its course because even minor changes will make you miss by miles. The glider isn't doing hard maneuvers, it's just changing its course slightly but significantly.
Probably no country has any real operational or remotely close to operational glider.
>untested weapon system is created >"GUYS GUYS the (insert country known for corruption, lies, and shoddy construction) built some kind of wonder weapon! it can (insert claim here) >pro-western folk point out there is no documented evidence to prove the before mentioned claims, as the only shown test if any exist do not live up to the claim >anti-western performs mental gymnastics as they slide away from the topic of the weapons actual capabilities, as they themselves do not know how capable the weapon is >they proceed to argue with having nothing been actually learned or discovered about the weapons true capabilities
why do they do this? the people who argue for these weapons seem to not be concerned with how reliable the weapon truly is or whether they actually work. I'd say it's because they're not westerners but there are plenty of anti-west people with the exact same mentality. These people seem to value a sketchy weapon that hasn't seen any combat and therefor losses over a proven, but not invincible product.
Every time there's a Navy thread it's the same shit over and over, and it's obvious there's maybe two posters on /k/ who have any idea. I actually suspect these threads are Chinese attempts to bait out classified info. >hypersonics >CIWS >old tech >carriers will be 10nm away and easy to detect, pussies if the stay outside of the engagement envelope >what's EMCON? >what's defense in depth? >CIWS >lasers and railguns >the missiles are too fast >CIWS
JTFC
If China has any foresight at all they'll simply wait a decade or two before invading Taiwan. Right now Taiwan is the singular manufacture of specific chips, very important chips. If China attacks now the USA has the option to either go to full scale war with China, or become obsolete. Instead, if China waits a decade or two for the USA to build their own plants on their own soil Taiwan is strategically much less important and they will be far less willing to go to war over it
At this point they're worried if Russia falls apart enough to not be an issue for western Europe anymore they might refocus more of their military efforts on china.
Waiting a decade could just give the west time to unite further and make hard plans to deal with the Chinese threat in the 2030s.
They might be enough to keep carriers from loitering off the chinese coast, so the CSG's will just play keep away and send submarines to cruise missile the frick out of them and maintain a clear corridor for long range aircraft, and drones to supress anti ship missiles wholesale. Hypersonics are capable, and dangerous. But they don't render anything obsolete. The USA has a long history of seeing supposed game changing weapons, and then developing doctrines and weapons that absolutely slap the shit out of whatever the claimed effectiveness of the new weapons were in the first place.
I honestly doubt because China's foreign policy has always been aggressive and demanding tribute/bow downs. It'll just piss everyone off. Also, China's naval history hasn't been that good.
US navy didn't do shit about piracy. Somali pirate was stopped by international effort not by US. US navy is to bully other countries you brainwashed moron.
I honestly doubt because China's foreign policy has always been aggressive and demanding tribute/bow downs. It'll just piss everyone off. Also, China's naval history hasn't been that good.
Nah, he's pretty correct, Chinas modern naval history is pretty shit if we start at the 1800's where any relevant history is concerned. That said their current expansion and modernization has been prodigious, but they are yet unproven as a modern blue water navy. They have a LOT of catching up to do with their preferred foe in the USA. To discount the excess of actual flight time, and deployment time the US Marines and Navy have had over the last 80 years would be a fricking disaster. If the prevailing opinion is "lol america weak" you're going to be really fricking mad when thousands of sailors and hundreds of ships are sinking to the bottom of the south china sea. Hubris has always lead to disaster in terms of naval conflict.
A carrier group is considered U.S sovereign territory. You attack one with missiles, be prepared to get your shit pushed in, in return. Simple as that.
Yes, the US isn't going to be able to stand up to china and we should focus on fixing our own country.
>the US isn't going to be able to stand up to china
lmao the US is running out of red lines to cross.
when f35s are based in Taiwan in a few years will that be the last one?
>posted less than a minute apart
come the frick on now
NPC post Chang
What's your WPM, chang?
Shooting a CSG is just begging to get nuked.
China isn't going to risk a nuclear war just to keep our CSGs from prowling around in the south China sea.
>muh nooks
You are right, destroying the Three Georges dam would be more fitting.
wouldn't do anything, China has tactically cloud seeded itself into a historic once-in-300-years drought so now the river is empty
checkmate gweilo
Nuking china in response to a conventional attack is begging for you to get nuked in return. Like you're in a bar brawl and take a hit so you draw your knife. Never ends well.
No shit, but annihilating a CSG means WWIII and nukes anyway.
You don't let an adversary take out a $25B+ asset without a MASSIVE response, and I don't think the US has any conventional response that would have similar impact on China EXCEPT for a nuke, or a conventional strike against three gorges dam which would end up killing far more people than a single nuclear attack would.
USA won't do shit.
LUL youll never learn
You really think the US would just an aircraft carrier face tank a Chinese missile and have NO military response at all?
Fricking do it chang, I'm willing to roll the dice on the one if you are.
There's a bit of a range between a nuke and "no response at all" don't you think?
And this thinking that you need to respond directly to an enemy action is bullshit too. When you're in a war, everything you do is meant to harm the enemy. You're not going to do it any more efficiently by introducing tit-for-tat revenge into your decision making. If a carrier is sunk, you eat the loss, redeploy your air power to land bases and proceed to kick chinese ass in the same way you did before.
Its fact that destroying a CSG is a nukeable offense, so good luck trying!
>USA won't do shit
>proceeds to have everyone tell him how wrong he is
>moves goalposts and tells everyone what the U.S. might do
kys
Not the same guy you dumb Black person. I maintained the position that the US wouldn't respond with nukes to a sunken carrier. Not that they would stop the conventional war effort, run tails between legs and leave east asia to china.
>When you're in a war
we haven't been in a real war in decades
call me when we're dropping millions of tons of ordinance out of b52s and firebombing Dresden, again
Sure, they should invade Taiwan now
Sure, invade the island
You can claim the US won't do shit all you want, but we have physically seen China not do shit when it came to Pelosi going to Taiwan 🙂
All I saw was now fast US carrier ran away like a b***h
All I saw was a plane entering supposed Chinese air space and not getting shot down despite threats
It's possible, but with Russia possibly collapsing we might see an end to leftist psy ops that caused such weakening.
>US carrier group circles to keep on station during a crisis without becoming a stationary target
>They are obviously frightened of China's might.
Honest question, will China "win" when our crazed cold war era politicians like Pelosi and Biden croak? We're about to get a bunch of young melinials/zoomers in office who would shit their pants and cry if tiktok is banned so it could be a legit concern.
The tremoring, liver-spotted hands of a Silent/Boomer slowly henpecked his post one key at a time.
don't worry that's just the childhood lead poisoning leaching out of his dissolving bones
You homosexuals keep forgetting the US goes full tard rage when attacked. Even latte sipping hipsters call for the blood of foreigners when shit happens. Just look at 9/11 and remember how even israelite yorkers went out into the streets singing kumbaya celebrating the death of some sand Black person.
Tl:dr don't be a slant eye when you piss off the US as the 1911 was purpose built to kill squints.
Flips (the first)
Nips
asiatics and chinks
Zipperheads
Chinks (again some day)
>The absolute full broadside of asian racial epithets
My fricking sides, Jesus Christ you fricking psycho
>Just look at 9/11 and remember how even israelite yorkers went out into the streets singing kumbaya celebrating the death of some sand Black person.
This, post 9/11 psychosis was some real shit
how many times does america have to teach the entire world a lesson before you fricking morons learn
People who don't have freedom cope by claiming the boot on their neck is virtuous and that their enemies are just soft for not having a boot on their neck. Tojo said all the same shit word for word about the US being too comfortable, too soft, not having the stomach for war, that if you slapped the US' nose it would seek peace. The key thing these people never understand is the difference the US population has when reacting to a good casus belli versus a war that is seen as wasteful, pointless, and our fault.
Anglos are inherently the most bloodthirsty and violent race, but their education and morals hold them back most of the time.
Thus when a righteous cause is found, they destroy their enemy with the pent up bloodlust of generations, and give no mercy
God bless America
I mean, we invaded iraq and Afghanistan.
We invaded and killed hundreds of thousands over 2 buildings anon we would absolutely push China shit in if they tried.
Yeah because attacking the US Navy in a sneak attack worked REALLY well for Japan.
>t. Emperor Hirohito, December 6 1941
No, my friend, you have it backwards.
China won't do shit.
What has happened EVERY FRICKING TIME someone fricked with our boats. The last time it happened we cracked open an entirely new branch of technology on them
Chinese coast guard patrolled north pacific, bullying us fishing boats for 6 month and your navy didn't do shit
did China sink any of them?
just being in the same ocean doesn't count as 'bullying' regardless of how much you want to larp as having force projection dingus
>2 warships.
>zero observed interactions of any kind with any US vessels
>immediately shit themselves and run home when approached by a virtually unarmed USCG cutter.
China is the most pathetic nation ever to exist
don't forget they also got BTFOd by the Vietnamese coast guard
Sauce?
Nonsense. Noone's going to start the apocalypse (because by the time china has finished their current nuclear armament programme, that's what it will mean) over a military asset that the US has 11 of, in a war that won't even reach american territory. You may claim so, but it's a bluff and the chinese will call it.
>You may claim so, but it's a bluff and the chinese will call it.
We flew one of our least liked politicians into chink airspace and all they did was seethe over it.
Chinsects won't do shit
Yes, because flying an unarmed plane through chinese airspace and fricking nuking them is totally the same thing.
>Don't do totally normally things in war or we'll FRICKING NUKE YOU I pinky swear promise
Literally russian tier. Just as pathetic, just as toothless.
And I'm not chinese either btw. Just not interested in getting revenge nuked because someone couldn't stomach a sunken ship.
We aren't at war with China
If China starts a war by using OPs missiles to attack a CSG, expect hellfire and brimstone
You're the same kind of pussy that would also say we shouldn't nuke China even if they nuke us first.
>well it was ONLY one nuke, we can't risk escalating the conflict further by nuking them back
Strawman and moronic.
Again, fricking try it chang. You want a third of southern China underwater? Millions homeless and millions more starving? Three gorges dam is just a wobbly kneecap waiting for the baseball bat of freedom.
Don't test us.
>You want a third of southern China underwater?
Stupid laowai. China cleverly dried up all rivers.
this. look how many aircraft carriers the japanese sunk, and the US didn't nu...
wait, nevermind
And those carriers were a lot cheaper than current carriers.
The largest carrier Japan sunk in WWII "only" cost about $25-30M USD (around $500M in 2022)
A bargain compared to the current $11-13B cost of the GRF-class boats, not to mention their planes also cost a lot more these days, pretty sure they plan to have 3-4 dozen F-35s and a good dozen+ other planes, probably adding another $5B+ in value. Not to mention all the crew training and shit which costs a frick ton to get a crew fully trained.
Sinking a modern carrier would be an incredibly heavy blow to the US in power projection capability but also just in pure economic damage.
If chinks can reliably attack surface vessels with long-range ballistic (HGV optional) missiles, then they can reliably deny CSG operations. There really is no way around it. Can they do it, and if not when can they do it, if ever, are the real questions.
Attacking a CSG would not be a decision taken lightly, and before it could even be envisioned the chinks would need to have a reliable nuclear deterrent or 2nd strike capability. Attacking 3 gorges realistically needs nukes anyways because it's a frickmassive gravity dam
>because it's a frickmassive gravity dam
Why would that need nukes?
GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator is a 30,000lbs bunker buster. I think a B-52 can hold 2 or 3 of them, and I think the B-2 can hold 2 as well.
You really think a half dozen of those won't put a hole in this dam?
Sure, you could ALSO just use a nuke, but you certainly don't have to.
>implying the B-52 will go thought hundreds of SAM and the 2nd largest air force in the world.
This is why I mentioned the B-2
also the B-21 is supposed to be able carry at least 1 of them as well, or a rocket-assisted derivative bunker buster with similar destructive capabilities.
2nd largest Airforce in the world is the US Navy, 3rd largest is the Marine Corps
And yes, given the combat performance of Slav SAMs (Chinese are the same or worse) I am fully confident that we would smoke China militarily and barely break a sweat.
>2nd largest Airforce in the world is the US Navy
Yes, 10 years ago you boomer. PLA air-force is the 50% bigger than the US navy airforce.
Yes but US pilots have 2-3x the flight hours and our planes are just all around better.
>Yes but US pilots have 2-3x the flight hours and our planes are just all around better.
Yes, 10 years ago.
The PLAAF is only the second largest air force if you count 3rd-generation fighters (when in any potential conflict, they'd only be a way for USN pilots' to stat-pad)
You mean the Navy? I love the Navy!
also https://www.livescience.com/navy-ufo-videos-national-security-threat
I'm not a dam expert but I think you need fairly massive breaches to have large scale destruction downstream. In any case, an attack on 3 gorges is realistically equivalent to a nuclear attack so policy wise its irrelevant whether it's conventional or not. From an american point of view what matters is can the chinks launch a nuclear counterstrike.
Dams fail all the time from even minor structural failures due to the force of the water causing even more damage as it collapses. Any uncontrolled breach can lead to a catastrophic failure.
You don't need massive breaches to destroy a dam. You don't even need a "breach" in the common meaning of the term. The whole point of a dam is to store gravitational potential energy so it can be converted to kinetic energy. Any minor damage to the dam that allows even a minimal amount of that energy to be unleashed outside of the specifically designed pathways will cause a catastrophic failure of the dam in short order. This is why even minor overtopping to the tune of ~2"-4" can (and has) collapsed entire dams before.
The difference between attacking the 3 Gorges with a conventional or a nuclear assault isn't so much about the initial attack, but whether you want to blanket a third of the country (and eventually the ocean) with irradiated floodwater. MacArthur got shitcanned for wanting to salt the Yalu with cobalt, and this would be only barely less ecologically destructive.
>t. engineer who stopped a couple classes short of a minor in nuclear engineering
My buddies and I did the math a while back. The best way to remove the damn is smuggling in a SF diver team with a nuclear demolition charge to the base of the damn on the wet side. The water would attenuate the radiation burst to the point of non existence will so blowing the thing to pieces
>If China comes up with a reliable anti-[weapon] system then [weapon] is obsolete.
How can the US possibly defeat China's militarized tautology capabilities?!?
???
It would not be at all difficult to launch conventional strikes on important military infrastructure against China, given it's almost all on the fricking coast. Three Gorges if we really want to be extra spicy about it.
>You don't let an adversary take out a $25B+ asset without a MASSIVE response,
You're forgetting that it would be a voluntary war on America's side, just like the invasion of Ukraine is voluntary for Russia.
Just as there is no reason for Russia to resort to nukes to win Ukraine since it's not theirs in the first place; there's no reason for the US to resort to nukes to force an invasion of China.
The US loses all its carriers. It retreats back to its borders. The world moves on.
The US is still secure from invasion. China has proven itself secure from American invasion. They still have to worry about the 1 billion Indians on their border, though.
>The US loses all its carriers. It retreats back to its borders.
If China engages in an act of aggression like striking US carriers, the US won't retreat back to its borders. There will be a total blockade - not embargo, blockade - of China. No grain shipments in. No export shipments out. Any ship heading to China is sunk and any ship trying to leave is sunk, until China collapses into starvation and civil war.
>If China engages in an act of aggression
Why the frick would China engage in an act of aggression? They have no plans to invade the US.
It's the US that's trying to contain China, not China that's trying to contain the US. The US would be the one starting the war of aggression.
The most likely scenario of China starting shit first against the US would be if China decides to try and pre-emptively attack a US CSG before invading Taiwan to annihilate any sort of fast response by US naval airpower in the pacific and instead forcing either south Korea or japan to respond, both nations who aren't really within range to provide much air power. Japan has their 2 helicopter carriers with F-35's now, but that isn't anywhere near the same level of power a CSG can exert.
That's the most likely scenario of china doing a preemptive strike against a US carrier.
No reason to preemptively strike when it's a sitting duck anywhere.
>China invades Taiwan
>US says, "YOU CAN'T INVADE WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION!" and proceeds to prepare a war of aggression.
>China says, "Frick off, this is none of your concern."
>US moves carriers into position.
>China warns them off
>US launches strike package
>China sinks the battle group.
Now the US is no longer in any position to prosecute a war of aggression against China.
>Invade sovereign nation
>Their allies defend them
>WAR OF AGGRESSION WAR OF AGGRESSION
I cannot wait to see the shitty, Soviet + Guanxi corruption culture of China fail militarily just as badly as Russia has.
you wont do shit
You're missing the steps that leads to the ROC flag flying over Beijing again
>10 other CBGs rape every Chinese flag or traveling vessel to death
>800 million Chinese become dinner for the other 200 million in 6 months.
10 more CBCs get sunk. USA complaints like a b***h.
Bulk of US navy is outdated, your 40yr old ships are gonna get btfo
Your shit is derived from reverse-engineering a
40-year-old Soviet carrier which was a piece of shit when it was new. At least trying using one of your non-CATOBAR, diesel-powered glorified ski jumps in a non-scripted training exercise before you decide the destruction of the entire Imperial Japanese Navy must have been a fluke.
>Why the frick would China engage in an act of aggression?
The only way there will be a conflict between China and the USA is if China engages in an act of aggression, such as a second attempt at helping North Korea annex South Korea, or an attempt to annex Taiwan. The USA has no reason to engage in any act of aggression against China, so any scenario where China attacks an American aircraft carrier is by default in one of the many plausible scenarios where China tries to throw its weight around and attack innocent neighbouring countries.
>The USA has no reason to engage in any act of aggression against China
Wrong. White supremacy is a driving force.
The US, UK, and AUS all have the majority of their forces around China right now for the sole reason of containing the only non-white nation that can challenge the white hegemony. China threatens none of them, none of them live in that half of the world, yet their militaries are all off China's coast.
If there was no reason to engage in any act of aggression, their fleets would all be home.
Posturing to stop Chinese expansion isn't aggression.
If the Chinese surrounded Hawaii and threatened to sink any ship that left, you wouldn't consider that an aggressive act?
That's not at all what we're talking about.
The US isn't stopping china from trading or even just normal transit of their military, the US is stopping china from literally building military bases and artificial islands with landing strips.
It's pure blatant expansion into the SEA region.
If china wants to patrol around playing high seas cop, they can. It's when they start expanding to choke off access to certain fisheries or trade routes where it becomes an issue.
The US is playing sea police. China isn't.
So if China surrounded Hawaii and Guam, and told us that all airports and naval bases had to be shut down to reverse our destabilizing expansion into the Pacific, you wouldn't see that as an act of aggression?
What expansion have we done in the pacific since WWII?
We can point to china's RECENT expansion in artificial islands and tiny island military bases.
And again, we aren't surround china demanding them to do anything, we're just asking them to stop expanding and telling them if they attack our allies in the region they're gonna get got.
if you think that means the US is being aggressive, just try it chang I can't wait to show you real aggression.
What does it matter when it was? That would seem to just be an arbitrary distinction in favor of the status quo -- a status quo that quite conveniently favors the US.
Did China get a veto over our armed fortress *ahem* "embassy" in Iraq? Do they get a veto over our piracy in Persian Gulf or the Gulf of Mexico, where we seize weapons and medicine we don't like?
Quite convenient that the US can expand to every corner of the globe but China can't come out of its coastal waters.
>Did China get a veto
No. Because they suck ass, and have no ability to stop us from doing whatever we want. We have the ability to stop China from doing what it wants, therefore we do so.
Morals are a fricking stupid argument to make when considering geopolitics dumbass.
>But muh American pigdogs are cheating
Yes we are. Get fricked.
>Morals are a fricking stupid argument to make when considering geopolitics dumbass.
Yet you need to coach evil in lies to get any support.
Yes, because the status quo is the exact opposite of destabilizing. When you are dredging to build islands and expand your EEZ, you are being a destabilizing influence. Meanwhile, the US hasn't engaged in territorial expansion in the region since 1898, when it got Wake Island (save for a few Japanese islands, which were managed after the war and given back in the late 60s and early 70s). More than that, it's been reducing its Pacific footprint, creating entire countries in the process - the Philippines in 1946 and the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands in 1986.
>arbitrary distinction in favor of the status quo
This is literally the foundation of all international relations.
>Did China get a veto over our armed fortress *ahem* "embassy" in Iraq?
Yes, they did, because that's literally how the UN works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1441
>Iraq was in compliance
>US decided to invade anyway
>Nowhere in the resolution is there authorization for the US to take over Iraq
So exactly when did China have a veto over the unilateral decision to attack and take over a country that was in compliance with the resolution they voted in favor of?
They got to say their piece. It's just that the UN is as useless stopping us as it is everyone else.
Frick I hate that institution. Why couldn't those fricking Saudis crashed into that too?
So the point remains, that China would be just as justified in sinking US carriers and carpet bombing the US over its invasion of Iraq as the US would be justified in attacking China over its invasion of Taiwan.
"For every injustice the US commits, China gets to commit one injustice of equal or greater value."
No one on Earth will buy your moral relativist bullshit and "but muh American hypocrisy!" won't mean you can invade Taiwan without getting sanctioned/cruise missiled so hard it makes the Great Leap Forward and the Era of Unequal Treaties seem like a golden age for China.
>>Iraq was in compliance
"Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction, but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops during the 1990–1991 invasion and occupation."
>>US decided to invade anyway
It was confirmation that our stated causus belli was factually correct.
in the resolution is there authorization for the US to take over Iraq
True. But it did confirm that our stated casus belli was factually correct. It also did not specify what would happen in the event Iraq did not comply with the resolution's demands, nor that any actions taken would first have to be confirmed by the security council. It did not authorize the use of military force, but it did not specify that it could not be used.
>So exactly when did China have a veto over the unilateral decision to attack and take over a country that was in compliance with the resolution they voted in favor of?
Again, the resolution literally said Iraq was not complying with existing UN resolutions or the terms of the 1991 ceasefire. Resolution 1441 was unanimously passed by all 15 members of the security council, including China. If China had elected to use its veto, the resolution would have failed even if it were 14-to-1. Arguing that China had no idea that the resolution might lead to war requires the PRC's leadership to have the naivety and intelligence of a child.
Did the resolution authorize the war? No.
Could China have unilaterally stopped the US from using it to justify war? Yes. All they had to do is say the words, "China votes against the resolution." They didn't but now conveniently use it as a justification for unilaterally invading Taiwan--- without a UN resolution.
>It's pure blatant expansion into the SEA region.
ASEAN said China is no threat and SEA economy need China, then told USA to frick off during the Shangri-la forum.
American plebs are delusional.
Black person ASEAN is dysfuctional and fricking impotent. It's just a club of frickers doing frick all and turning a blind eye to eachother's countries. SEA needs China, which is exactly the fricking advantage China's fricking with to build whatever the frick they want.
I'd rather get fricked by Uncle Sam than get a smile from Ching Chong Chang.
If your mother called you a slanted homosexual would that be true?
SEABlack folk would the first on their knees begging Americans
moron
>or a conventional strike against three gorges dam which would end up killing far more people than a single nuclear attack would
There's your answer. China has a glass jaw.
I doubt it. So the Pentagon would say that china killing 5k American sailors would warrant obliteration of all major cities in china and the US ending both countries as we know it? We would respond with continued conventional means before that point
Pretty sure you’d see 50$billion worth of Chinese military buildings and equipment targeted by precision stealth strikes before we nuked them…
It would be more prudent to take out all their dams and induce mass casualty events via conventional weapons. Bug swatting doesn’t have to be nuclear.
Hitting civilian targets to cause civilian casualties is almost as provocative as nukes. The US will target military infrastructure in return for the sinking of a CSG.
>Hitting civilian targets to cause civilian casualties is almost as provocative as nukes
Okay, Chink.
When did China get civilians?
In theory it shouldn't, in practice 5000 US sailors dying in the blink of an eye would make the public bay for blood.
What I could see would be some immediate and aggressive conventional non-nuclear bombing of chinese military assets all about the South China Sea. Their artificial islands, their naval groups, some mainland chinese naval facilities. Just full on cutting edge best of the best missiles or stealth bombers or UAVs or whatever. Shock-and-Awe tier.
A Carrier group won't get them killing millions of chinese civilians. It'll just, unless we are as rotten and shitty as Russia the paper tiger proved to be, make us go rabid-dog and smash the shit out of every Chinese military target available. Which is why China has to decide a very precise moment when they feel they can get away with anything.
That said it would likely spiral into some kind of WW3. Maybe not a nuclear one but you'd see China going full tilt nutjob - imprisoning every American they can get their hands on in China (or lynching them), seizing every American-associated economic asset, hacking/cyber warfare out the ass to the mainland US.
A carrier strike group sunk by these missiles would be neutralized and any reinforcing CSG would suffer the same fate. Only long flight bombardments from land airports would be able to harm china thats to little for that extensive bombing campaign you talk about, it wouldn't be possible.
US Cyberwarfare is crazy strong, but it always holds back. China can't take that dicking.
>China will not risk a war when attacked and being in a war, the post
so I guess they will just let the US invade and occupy China in order to avoid a war
Except no one wants to invade China you dumb chang.
>yo lets nuke a nuclear country
said no one ever
Yeah, 1970s tech beats 2020 tech, didn't you know OP?
>Muh look similar; therefore same
You are a moron
>You are a moron
KEK. The automatic hapanda response. Like a fricking parrot.
They are aerodynamically identical, therefore equal in performance.
>muh ching chong quantum hypersanic paint
No, they can't hit moving targets, and the scientist that designed them already gave all their details to the glowBlack folk.
China is going to go full Suicide Squad and implant microbombs next to engineer/scientist brain stems.
>Defects to the west
>Defects to fricking Britain
Lmao
>No, they can't hit moving targets
Then why US ship keep running away like a b***h?
US ships keep sailing in the Strait of Taiwan and the South China Sea on a regular basis.
Then why don't the US sent their Carrier group like in 1996?
Also China is now regularly patrolling the Alaska coast and bully US fishing boat, the US can't do shit.
>Also China is now regularly patrolling the Alaska coast
Do these Chinese ships stay near Alaskan waters forever or do they run away like a b***h?
They stated for six month and you navy didn't do shit. USA is a little b***h
This is some weird cope anon, I hope you enjoy being a moron as much as we enjoy laughing at you.
So the Chinese navy ran away like a little b***h?
>Waaaa, why didn't the enemy do exactly what I wanted them to do!
You're going to have a bad time with this mindset in a real war.
Also your body-kit Pershing 2s aren't scaring anyone until you can get terminal guidance on a moving target worked out. The CEP natively sucks, and a carrier can move almost five miles in any direction from launch detection to impact. Whoops.
And people are mentioning nukes because you can't tell the difference between an ICBM and a HGV until well after launch has been detected by the Americans. Who are known to have Launch On Warning doctrine. Smoothbrain move on China's part, as usual.
They're as game changing as the Armata
If they cant reach the Malacca Strsit from China then they're useless
>Doesn't my nth gay-ass technology mean carriers are obsolete. I'm completely neglecting missile defense, electronic warfare, or suppression by long-range bombers, cruise missiles, or ballistic missiles btw
have a nice day
velly implessive!
The US navy is always 30 years ahead of the curve when it comes to what they allow the public to see. For all we know they are developing super powerful lasers that can take advantage of the nuclear reactor on the carrier, or some super advanced CWIS system, or whatever. Lockheed was fricking around with an f35 prototype in the Nevada desert in the fricking 90s
>for all we know
If only you knew how bright the flash could be.
>F35 prototype
I doubt it, considering how many countries it took to make it.
>x35
>First flight 24 October 2000
>with an f35 prototype in the Nevada desert in the fricking 90s
So that was a fricking lie
not that anon, but 2000 is much earlier than i would've thought to see one of those things flying around
>The US navy is always 30 years ahead of the curve when it comes to what they allow the public to see
Yeah. They were already as gay as the rest of America is now in the late 80’s.
The next level showing of sodomy in the pipe is bound to be a gale changer from the diaper mutts.
Hey, at least when our boys do gay shit it's consensual
:^)
>gale changer from the diaper mutts
>Enemies of the USN aspirate on their own vomit when they roll out PROJECT: UH OH STINKY and project the stench of a furry convention through new wind-manipulation devices
No, they require satellite guidance in order to hit ships, of which they have 4, all of which the US could easily destroy. Meanwhile America is building UFOs.
Goddamn we are reaching some truly sci fi looking shit
The SR stands for Super eRection
>Don't these make US Carrier strike groups useless in the china sea?
they're just fast cruise missiles, anon
To be honest, anti-ship missiles make almost every kind of combat ship uneconomical.
I'd more see as a winning strategy China being able to outproduce the US in -cheap- munition, with the US carrier group not having enough ammo to keep up the defense and being destroyed before they can resupply.
However that would only keep the battle away from China.
Once the US establish a protected supply line and China supply line get sniped by stealth missiles they can't intercept the attrition change side.
I expect Submarine warfare to go essentially the same way but more in favor of the US. New software being good enough to make submarine stealth worthless so everything become a question of who can mass produce torpedoes and UUV-drones to swarm the opponent.
This is no longer WWII when weapon production pace was on par with the rate at which they are destroyed.
We could build 400 aircraft per month, now we are extremely happy if we can produce 1 modern aircraft per month.
That’s why DEWs (Direct energy weapons) are so crucial in a war of attrition and probably why the DoD shelved its rail gun efforts to put the focus on lasers and shit. Man I can’t wait to eat some fried bugs
Ask yourself this
Why does the DF-17 make CSGs obsolete, but other ballistic missiles don't?
Do you understand that BGV hypersomic ballistics were done in the 1940s? Then nobody touched them for years because they offer only marginal advantages over conventional ballistics with far more cost.
They no more have made CSGs obsolete than existing ballistic missiles that China and everyone else already had.
Somehow I'm not worried.
Kek in 2001 my Chinese Foreign Policy prof told us about how his parentsij China would have to attend mandatory military training and they'd be laughing at how the bullets would strike their targets sideways. I'm glad that 40 years laters nothing has changed.
I think it's impressive how progressive the commie bandits are, making a female combat squad and showing them off
Sadly, this is not keyholing, but recoiling rounds from the wall behind the target. You can see it for yourself:
Start at 7s.
At 8s, a barely visible hole appears on the rightmost part of the right eyebrow (your right)
At 9s, the recoiling bullet exits and creats the keyhole
Ok Chang. Because bullets ricochet off of concrete completely intact and not deformed.
You fricking moron, you're suggesting 2 full seconds for a bullet to ricochet 15 cm, and for that ricochet bullet to be FULLY INTACT.
You fricking mong.
Look at the keyholes. The edges go inwards from our perspective, as if the holes were made from a projectile striking the front. If it was caused by ricochet, the edges would be coming towards us.
Further, it is hard to believe that the bullets were not deformed by striking concrete.
>Noguns zhangs who have never shot anything before in their life
Your even dumber if you think this is the case. Since ricochets are pretty deadly to people shooting at up close targets. But I'm sure the casualties sustained during training was acceptable.
literally excuses made by someone that's never shot anything in their fricking life. bullets are made of soft fricking lead, if they bounce back like that off cinderblocks they wont even penetrate ballistic plates
If bullets did that anyone shooting in there was going to be catching lead. Considering they all didn't just drop screaming in puddles of blood I highly doubt fmj suddenly became rubber
I think you posted this in good faith, but as a guy who done shoots a lot, you are wrong. This comes down to abysmal chink rifles or wonky chink training ammo.
why does the target look like a racist caricature of a chinese man lmfao
It is in fact exactly that, it's a caricature of a Uighur, which is a different asian ethnicity up in northern china. Primarily muslim, and in the way of Chinese progress with their belt and road initiative.
>cope answers
usa stronk/china stronk
>real answer
we don't know until it actually happens
china is built on mud infused steel. ill be worried when they stop mass spamming dogshit
I don't believe this shit even works. I really don't.
I dunno. It's never been used against a carrier group.
No
US probably has secret tech that makes those useless.
Armatard sucks donkey dicks.
What the hell is /k/ now?
The Chinese are selling a lot of promises on hypersonics. One is being able to communicate while in flight. This ability to lets them correct targeting and also receive non-inertial updates will be imperative to these functioning or missing.
If it can't update it can't hit things properly. It also doesn't take into account directed energy weapons, AEGIS self-defense missiles, or other 'chaff' weapons that could defect the weapon.
Also, missiles don't occupy buildings. Ignoring that you start WW3 by sinking a carrier, you also are still across a huge body of water from your goal occupation.
It wouldn't be a war of occupation, but rather one closer to the Pacific war
No, they make the US carrier groups useless in the Pacific.
They make for good artificial islands for China in the South China Sea.
morons on side
>The US will NUKE BEIJING
morons on the other side
>The US will do nothing
No because those are just cardboard.
Hypersonics can barely hit stationary targets let alone moving objects surrounded by defense layers
>Don't these make US Carrier strike groups useless in the china sea?
Not really. No more than a rifle makes an infantry man on the battlefield useless.
Then I guess China does not mind becoming a 3rd world shit hole within a year.
no it only transforms CSG into SCG (submarine carrier groups)
>oh God please let China attack us before they overtake our GDP and they build new carriers to face our 30+ year old ones
It'll still take at least 30-50 years before they can actually build up their military AND have enough experience operating naval logistics on a wide-scale with some blue water experience under their belts.
Even if they had the ships to do it right now, it would be dumb because they just don't have much experience operating such a large navy, even more so in an actual war.
That's my point, it's in China's best interests to wait a long while yet
I'm gonna be dead by then so meh
Ok boomer
China would never attack because they're not going to take over a country with 500 million guns on the other side of the planet.
China would play on its own side of the world, first. If the US gets involved, that's a war of aggression against China which they take care of with antiship missiles. No more US war of aggression and China is free to play.
That means no taiwan
If china attacks taiwan, the US is fighting.
That's a war of aggression against China just as much as it would've been a war of aggression against the US if China had sunk carriers and carpet bombed Guam because we invaded Afghanistan without their permission.
China can go to war with Taiwan if they please, and they may defend themselves against US aggression.
>China can go to war with Taiwan if they please
And the US, and other Pacific nations, can react to China's decision as they please.
China's demographics are terminal. They're growing old before they can grow rich enough to support a billion seniors. The covid lockdowns aren't helping, either.
They're just joining the club baby
Hell, Germany is at 48
Theirs is going up faster, though. Thank the One-Child Policy and forced industrialization for that.
Technically at the rate Covid affects the elderly it’s probably helping them more than hurting them in the long run…
China's economy is literally about to pop, you haven't been following the news at all. They're facing a massive real estate bubble crisis right now that's only getting worse by the day.
>You have too much wealth! Surely this will bankrupt you!
You're really not very bright, are you?
How could the People's Speculative Real Estate Market be bad if Comrade Pooh Bear says the line will keep going up forever?
do you know what a bubble is?
It literally works exactly like that.
Wow, y'all are really about to experience your nation's first ever economic depression without any idea it's coming, aren't you? Here's some advice: the Party's managed to conceal and delay everything for so long without addressing the underlying problems means that when the slump hits, it's going to be a fricking doozy. The PRC has a strong hold over the political system, but strong means brittle, so it might shatter at any point. Given China's recurring problems with mass famine, I'd advise you to stock up on non-perishables. Political chaos (combined with the yuan's value plummeting) will really frick up imports for a long, long time and China's so large any international aid will be a drop in the bucket of what's needed. Even worse, they'll be effects on the entire world economy and everyone else will have problems of their own. The next few years might make the Great Leap Forward seem like a golden age.
>having too much wealth leads to a depression!
You're really not very bright, are you?
>thinking a bubble is too much wealth
you do a lot of projection, don't you?
A bubble just results in a correction. You do not lose any of the wealth.
>Congress starts making noise about gun control. Prices start to go up. You decide now's a good time to sell your AR-15 and cash out. You sell it for $2000 -- $1000 more than you bought it for..
>They guy who bought it sells it for $3000 a week later.
>That guy sells it for $4000 a week later.
>That guy sells it for $6000 a week later
>That guy sells it for $10,000 a week later.
>"I've got to get back in on this!" you think. You buy it back for $15,000.
>Nothing happens with gun control
>prices plummet back to $1000
Is the economy destroyed?
No. The guy you bought it from has his 1000 pieces of paper.
The guy you sold it to has 1000 extra pieces of paper.
The guy he sold it to has 2000 extra pieces of paper
The guy he sold it to has 4000 extra pieces of paper
The guy he sold it to has 5000 extra pieces of paper.
You are down 1000+2000+4000+5000 + the original 1000 purchase = 13,000 pieces of paper
13,000 pieces of paper have been distributed among others, for a net loss of zero pieces of paper.
You have your gun back for a net loss of zero guns.
Nothing has changed except the distribution of paper.
The correction hurt you, while the bubble profited 4 others to the exact combined extent the correction hurt you.
The gun manufacturer having manufactured the gun, creating a valuable item (wealth) does not leave the nation in a poorer state than if he hadn't, simply because a bubble formed around it. The nation is up one gun in wealth and down zero paper.
Ah yes, because the correction in the housing market in 2008 did not result in any lost wealth.
Fricking dimwit.
China actually has a government that can do something when the citizens are being stupid.
See Xinjiang.
Like print counterfeit money with the same exact serial number multiple times?
yeah the little bit you're leaving out is this is chinese paper (real estate). remind me again, which industry in China created the "tofu dreg projects" moniker?
you'd get sturdier paper off the ground in Hiroshima on the afternoon of August 6, 1945.
now that's air power
You know the funny part? The USN doesn't technically even *have* to fight in the South China Sea. A task force, with USAF support from Diego Garcia, could interdict almost all shipping to or from China in the Indian Ocean, outside of the range of the DF-17. That means no hydrocarbons, which China needs not just for power and transportation, but also for agriculture. They'd be looking at a severe famine within months, but as a practical matter, their economy would probably collapse within weeks as word got out and people began to panic.
If only there were some way on earth China could possibly get such goods from another source. Unfortunately, all hydrocarbons on Earth travel via the strait of Malacca.
Pretty much. What they get from Russia is entirely from eastern Siberia, not western Siberia. There literally aren't any pipelines running from their primary oil and gas fields to China, and it would take years (*with* Western imports and engineers--far longer without) to build out meaningful capacity across Siberia to China. The TSR doesn't have the spare capacity to make up the difference, either. Plus, there's the small matter that Russia may be effectively losing a large chunk of their oil production next year anyway, because of the sanctions (and perhaps more importantly, the boycotts that pulled the Western engineers out). And finally, there's also the minor issue that China's economy is dependent upon both imports *and* exports, and without access to foreign markets and supply chains, China's economy collapses before it runs out of oil and food, causing chaos.
>there's also the minor issue that China's economy is dependent upon both imports *and* exports
You mean like... just about every economy on Earth?
yes it remains an effective method of warfare like in previous total wars
Most modern nations on Earth don't have 40% of their economy depending on exports and won't have a billion people starve to death if they can't import food by sea. Modern China is a house of cards.
>depending on exports
Uh, you realize that if you don't export, you get to keep the stuff, right?
>Uh, you realize that if you don't export, you get to keep the stuff, right?
Yeah go fricking sell black rubber dildos, moronic mousepads and plastic yoyos to your own peasant population who the majority make $1.65 a month instead of to the degenerate West, that will surely balance out their economy. If only the CCP had someone as brilliant as you at their head instead.
Their wealth still gets catapulted to that of the US, while the US becomes a third world nation.
No, because a thing is only valuable if someone wants it. China does not want the entire US-bound inventory of Spirit Halloween knickknacks, they want USD. If trade was broken off between China and the US, they would suddenly have a lot of useless shit and very little USD.
Yes anon, 90% of Chinese exports are spirit Halloween knickknacks
Most of their exports are intermediate stages of manufacturing, like taking a circuit board populated in Taiwan and installing it into a phone chassis made in Thailand. They're mostly coasting on arbitrage, except the calculus for that remaining viable is dying with their demography.
you're, astoundingly, both kind of correct
the only manufacturing that the US genuinely offshored (Taiwan's status as a nexus of tech manufacturing hasn't really changed all that much, but AFAIK they've been the kings of it for most of the semiconductor transistor era) was plastic forming (it generally comes from refineries in the West) and textiles. the plastic manufacturing was China's specialty, and their economy has been buoyed by idiotic Western oligarchs who saw China's real estate as being as rapid-growth as the CCP reports and thought investing in Chinese real estate would give them their first erection since their geriatric hearts couldn't handle viagra any more
The last I checked, China can't eat smart toasters with bluetooth connectivity
You might need to update your knowledge from 2006, that 40% has gone down to 20%, which is actually pretty low
This is charmingly naive.
Oh, don't get me wrong--the PLAN could still cause all kinds of problems in the short term, but the CCP has to recognize that it's not a winning hand in the long run, and escalating to nukes just gets them nuked right back. Would you gamble your country, your people, your cushy life at the top of the pyramid on having to roll boxcars multiple times in a row?
It's not a foolproof deterrent--nothing is--but it's something the CCP has to keep in mind: the US, if sufficiently annoyed, can shut down over 99% of all sea trade to and from Chinese ports within a few hours to a few days of the order being given, depending on where assets are and which legal channels are used to compel other nations (and international maritime insurance providers) to comply.
US can't even maintain it's own navy, except for carriers it has less modern warship than the PLAN.
Tico and Burke II are fricking outdated compared to 052D and 055. No ASAR radar no ASBM. Americans plebs don't even realize how behind they are, but you generals are, that's why you won't do shit.
Invade Taiwan and find out.
China will only attack Taiwan if US is on the table.
China is not attacking now because the USA keep running away like a b***h.
>Tico and Burke II
>no ASBM
Lol. Lmao even.
>Hey guys we're gonna go indefinitely blockade China and completely implode the global economy 50x worse than 2008 or Covid ever did, that fine with everyone?
>Yeah sure man go ahead
Anon, decisions like thst aren't made without contingencies in mind and a pivot away from China has been happening for the past decade with COVID cementing that.
The US might not be able to move as quickly and open the pocketbook quite as deep as the EU for bullshit economic warfare, but they can do just fine.
>we don't NEED the south china sea
China plans to be carbon neutral by 2060.
They'll be neutrally charge carbon atoms in 40 years after their society collapses and everyone nukes them like they deserve.
>Don't these make US Carrier strike groups useless in the china sea?
yes. also they are making Guam bases into huge waste of money.
>Laughs in rocket-deployed GMLRS launchers
>china says carriers are useless
>china builds carriers
Really makes you think.
prepare your butthole
Why does every "Here's how China wins" scenario revolve around them building n+1 missiles with none of the supporting capabilities needed to effectively use them, nor the assets to follow up on their purported effects, with the US military suddenly embracing technological stasis during the years it will take for China to mass-produce their "we somehow managed to make sensors that can penetrate a shroud of blinding plasma and no we won't demonstrate this capability in a way you can verify" superweapon?
It's literally, China wins because it has a magic "China wins" button.
Cue the US drawing a penis into the three gorges dam until it breaks with cruise missles
>The only place you can take out a loan at is your local fricking bank.
>Local bank takes the funds you pay in and uses it for a bigger bank in the region.
>Bigger bank lends it into national companies.
>National companies claim they're doing massive projects for investments (But they never finish them and just start up another one for claims) and "pays" into the national bank.
>National bank disburses everything back down
>It's supposed to go to the local bank to give you more money and others loans.
Is it just a ponzi scheme in China?
>Doesnt one carrier strike group placed here to choke China of it's oil make these useless in general?
Also, any military that parades in the 21st century is meme levels of facade
Is a massive, fast, drone launcher with huge amounts of electricity going to become obsolete?
No
The Rabid Dogs Of American Imperialism Cannot Hope To Withstand The Harmonious Advance Of People's Polytechnic Mastery Of Rocketry
I wish a homie would
Did Japanese guided suicide rockets make US carriers useless in the Pacific theater of WWII?
Did German V2 rockets damage US shipping at all?
If that were the case, china wouldnt be so interested in building their own carrier groups
I doubt China is building carriers to use them on anyone who has DF-17's.
There's a major difference between thinking they might be useful for "shaping relations" with Third World nations and thinking they'll be useful in peer conflicts with global superpowers.
Is Multirole/navy bombers group are better anti ship missiles ?
bump
Sorry. I'm having a stroke. See this.
homie what
*are better in dealing carrier group than anti-ship missiles.
Anti ship missiles are for defense, carrier groups are force projection. China cant afford to rely on turtling as a legit military strategy.
No, based on the effectiveness of modern AA against Soviet derived systems in Ukraine right now, I'd say it instead makes you wonder if China needs to rethink their war plans. Instead, those launchers are big, juicy targets for more agile systems and laughable unless you're bigger than the entire CSG pierside.
>Soviet derived systems
moron
Not when the US navy has lasers and drones and rail guns etc.
Holy fricking wumao cope ITT.
Guess what happens if the Chinks attack or especially manage to sink a US carrier.
Think about it man.
It starts with Nu... and ends with clear combat until no motherfricking chinkoid is alive anymore
>Guess what happens if the Chinks attack or especially manage to sink a US carrier.
USA stay silent. Iran just bombed your consulate and your base this year, the USA said there was no death and didn't do shit.
Aren't these hypersonic glide weapons that can barely maneuver in the air and are easily targeted by kinetic destruction systems?
The reason the US hasn't invested in hypersonics is that they mostly suck ass unless you put a nuke on them, and we already have ICBMs for that. We're trying to build an air-breathing, maneuverable hypersonic missile for the prompt global strike program, but said missile is not finished and is not likely to be finished for a few years.
The US first fielded these hypersonic glide missiles in like the fricking 80s and realized that they had way too many downsides back then.
>easily targeted
Bullshit, call me shill if you must but the very point of "hypersonic glide" is that no/less anti-missile can launch and intercept them in time.
ICBM are literally named so for being ballistic, they don't maneuver at all, and are more easily intercepted.
The US only made hypersonic missiles, not missile capable of maneuvers. We don't need them for nuclear deterrence simply because we have too many nuke anyway, it will get through by sheer number.
However for anti-ship purpose, being able to produce even a few of those missiles would be perfect. As long as you can produce more of those than the enemy have warship and get a superior kill, this is a win. You can't replace a warship in a week or a month.
USA is behind China in hypersonic missiles because they decommissioned their hypersonic wind tunnel after the old war.
Also warhead like the Pershing 2 is very different from df21 or df17, comparing them is moronic.
>USA is behind China in hypersonic missiles because
No. The reason the US has mostly abandoned hypersonics is because they don't fit into American military doctrine.
The entire point of hypersonic missiles is to hit a target fast enough that its defenses can't react to stop it, but the US already has something that fills that niche far better and for far less money (see picrel). Which is the better option, the missile that lights up like a fricking Christmas tree the moment it's launched, can't guide itself, can barely maneuver, and looks indistinguishable from a ballistic nuclear missile strike, or the small stealthy missile that you can't see on radar until it's right on top of you?
Those missiles are cope. Ship based asbm out range them and they are not that more stealthy than sea skimmers.
China already has lrasm equivalent, they ground effect missile that stays just 1m above water.
>Your combat proven technology is cope
>my untested, unproven propaganda parade piece is better
Every time.
Hypersonic missiles are hard to detect, such speed come with a plasma sheath which is why guiding them is extra hard.
US love their stealth but the main reason it work is because they keep using it against countries with lesser technology than Soviet. Those "stealth missiles" also need to use the terrain or they'll still light-up even on Russian radar.
Not saying the Russian aren't coping with missiles they can't actually produce in high number, or at all, after sanction.
The real danger will come from China is they can overcome the Mao's sheep mentality that keep them from innovating.
>US love their stealth but the main reason it work is because they keep using it against countries with lesser technology than Soviet
This is and has always been a massive cope. It relies on the assumption that Chinese radars have some magical quality that will allow it to see though stealth better than all of the American radars it was tested against and deemed sufficient to overcome.
Stealth are easy to detect you brainlet
...or maybe the cope is that American have magical paint that nullify laws of physics and make the extreme heat of jet engine disappear?
Stealth just make you difficult to target, it's easy to detect stealth. Lrasm is subsonic, so quite vulnerable to ciws.
Lol, looks like I struck a nerve.
>know something is there using wide band radar
>don't know exactly where it is
>or what it is
>or how far away it is
>or how fast it's going
>or in what direction
>or how many there are
>all the radar bands you could use to determine those things don't work on it
>but hey, you "detected" it
Already combat proven against the best AA systems Russia has to offer in Syria. Cope in whatever way you feel necessary.
>Hypersonic missiles are hard to detect, such speed come with a plasma sheath which is why guiding them is extra hard.
Plasma sheath stealth is a meme that only brainlets believe in. It's very dependent on the temperature of the missile body. The Zircon, for example, reaches ~4000 Kelvin at altitude and speed. At 4000 Kelvin, plasma shield can block 1 Ghz and lower but SPY-1 operates at S band: 2-4 Ghz, APG-81 and APG-79 operate at X band: 8-12 Ghz, SPY-6 operates at S/X band: 2-4 Ghz and 8-12 Ghz, SPY-3 operates at 8-12 Ghz, MPQ-53 operates at C band: 4-8 Ghz, AIM-120 and SM-6 seeker operates in I/J band: 8-20 Ghz. All of them are higher than 1 Ghz, so the plasma shield is useless. Zircon can fly Mach 9 at 30 km altitude, doesn't mean it can do the same at 1 km altitude. Depending on the materials in which the body is made of, if they're using passive, active, or ablative cooling, etc. Plasma is an easy, easy problem to solve. Also, space based IR sensors can, and do, track hypersonic missiles of all types.
>US love their stealth but the main reason it work is because they keep using it against countries with lesser technology than Soviet.
China's radar tech is literally Soviet and Russian knock-offs. They're so shit at building radars that they contracted Russia to build their Early Warning Radar System.
>Those "stealth missiles" also need to use the terrain or they'll still light-up even on Russian radar.
Proof?
>China's radar tech is literally Soviet and Russian knock-offs. They're so shit at building radars that they contracted Russia to build their Early Warning Radar System.
boomer cope. reminder than the 90s was 30 yrs ago
>reminder than the 90s was 30 yrs ago
Learn Engrish, Ping Ling. If China can make better radars, why are they contracting the design and construction of the Early Warning Radar System to Russia?
>30 years ago
?
You mean 3? The system he's talking about is 3 years old. You didn't have any LPAR system until Russia built it for you.
source
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-03/putin-says-russia-is-helping-china-build-missile-warning-system
Isn't exactly clear when the system started coming online, but it's been visible on google maps for 3 years.
Helping =/= building
Radar and engines on Chinese jets and ships have been domestic radars for years and is considered superiors to the Russian.
China already surpassed Russia in the 2010s.
>It uses the same terminal guidance radar as the Pershing II
prove it. flight profile and weight doesn't prove anything about guidance
>Helping =/= building
Frick off, homosexual. You're using Russian radars. You can't detect an incoming nuke without Russia's help.
Rest of your post is the usual Chinese lies, you overwhelmingly rely on Russian engines or Chinese direct copies and you will continue to use majority Russian tech in most of those systems for years.
cope
Yup, that's what you're doing. Pretend anyone reading this is thinking about anything other than the fact that you're mad that you still use Russian tech instead of your own.
>t.
It has the same radar diameter, same remaining volume for power generating and signal processing, it has the same volume for a warhead, same time-to-target, same launch signature same aerodynamics,etc.
but it does have chink software sometimes
>prove it. flight profile and weight doesn't prove anything about guidance
Cope, Ping Ling. Now, get back to the call center. Can you show me one Chinese produced scramjet? Just one.
>engines on Chinese jets
It took you 40 years to copy the CFM-56II and produce the WS-10A - which still only has an abysmal 1500 life cycle before complete overhaul. The WS-15 isn't ever going to be flown on the J-20.
>domestic radars for years and is considered superiors to the Russian.
Proof?
>China already surpassed Russia in the 2010s.
Then why do they need to contract a Russian company to produce their Early Warning Radar System?
>USA is behind China in hypersonic missiles because they decommissioned their hypersonic wind tunnel after the old war.
No, we didn't. What is The Hypersonic Tunnel Facility (HTF) at NASA’s Neil A. Armstrong Test Facility?
>Here from 1968: A BGRV was launched on February 26, 1968, from Vandenberg Air Force Base by an Atlas F to the area of Wake Island in the Pacific.
Link: https://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/B/BGRV.html
>HyFly Mach 6 Scramjet Missile Test
Link: https://thefutureofthings.com/5667-hyfly-mach-6-scramjet-missile-test/
>HIFIRE/HyCAUSE Scramjet Mach-8+ success with Australia/USA collaboration 2017
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKipc5LpCU
>Advancing Hypersonics –Aerojet Rocketdyne’s Scramjet Engine Makes Hypersonics History
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YJyBf8x83Q
>Hypersonic missile successfully hits Ronald Reagan
MACH8 Link: https://www.theregister.com/Print/2011/11/18/hypersonic_weapon_pacific_test/
>In November 2011, AHW was launched from the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Kauai, Hawaii, to the Reagan Test Site on the Marshall Islands. The glide vehicle successfully hit the target, which is located about 3,700km away from the launch site.
Link: https://www.army-technology.com/projects/advanced-hypersonic-weapon-ahw/
>Department of Defense Tests Hypersonic Glide Body March 2020
Link: https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/2119458/department-of-defense-tests-hypersonic-glide-body/
Short vid in this link: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35369/army-shows-first-ever-footage-of-new-hypersonic-missile-in-flight-and-impacting
HVGs:
>X-43A
>HTV-2
>X-51
>What is The Hypersonic Tunnel Facility (HTF) at NASA’s Neil A. Armstrong Test Facility?
>Mach 7
That's pathetic. You need mach 10-20 wind tunnel to properly test ASBM. China has hypersonic wind tunnel that goes to mach 30.
brainlet won't can't into engineering
show me test of US missile and ciws intercepting ASBM
>You need mach 10-20 wind tunnel to properly test ASBM.
NASA (NG) HYPULSE can do up to Mach 40, no problem there.
https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2020/Q4/purdue-hypersonics-receives-boost-from-northrop-grumman-shock-tunnel-donation.html
>China has hypersonic wind tunnel that goes to mach 30.
The JF-22 isn't even operational yet, brainlet. Come back when they actually do some testing with it. The JF-12 is only Mach 5-9. Also, can you show me just one scramjet China has produced?
>brainlet won't can't into engineering
It's a literal copy. Prove otherwise.
>show me test of US missile and ciws intercepting ASBM
Once you show me the DF-17 or DF-21D hitting a moving target.
>It's a literal copy.
prove me it's a copy. similar shape is a brianlet argument.
>Once you show me the DF-17 or DF-21D hitting a moving target.
US navy ran away from the south china sea in 2020 because of it you moronic boomer.
>prove me it's a copy. similar shape is a brianlet argument.
It uses the same terminal guidance radar as the Pershing II, the same flight profile as the Pershing II, is around the same weight as the Pershing II, and has the same range as the Pershing II. It's a Pershing II copy, only 20 years later.
https://www.chinasignpost.com/2010/12/26/china-deploys-worlds-first-long-range-land-based-carrier-killer-df-21d-anti-ship-ballistic-missile-asbm-reaches-initial-operational-capability-ioc/
>US navy ran away from the south china sea in 2020 because of it you moronic boomer.
Proof?
>MUH BOOMER
Are you 12?
It's ok anon, they still just don't get it, and won't till it happens
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/china-conducts-sixth-missile-defense-test-one-year-after-the-last-one
Neat, can you show me it actually intercepting ANYTHING?
The AEGIS is very capable, and is the only PROVEN ABMS in the world. AEGIS will BTFO of any chinsect missile those impotent sub-humans decide to launch. Not to mention, our IR sats can detect missile launches as soon as they light off(see pic). Then, the Ohio Class will be shoving Trident IIs up China's ass, as soon as it detects the first nuked launch. Then comes the Air Force with the Minuteman III to finish the bugs off.
AEGIS:
Raytheon's Ballistic Missile Defense Systems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae5VmVwfWmk
Aegis Ashore Missile Intercept(SM-3 Block IIA): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9BJ_3uklVk&t
USS John Finn (DDG-113) Missile Intercept(SM-3 Block IIA): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJ9c6ZSyqI
USS LAKE ERIE (CG 70) Missile Intercept(SM-3 Block IIA): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpX0EwO5SkE
USS LAKE ERIE (CG 70) Satellite shoot down(SM-3 Block IB): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UahioUnMHHc
Here take your pick, we have many: https://www.youtube.com/user/AegisBMD/videos
THAAD:
A THAAD in Alaska intercepted a missile launched just north of Hawaii. Flight Test THAAD (FTT)-18: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGEdLW5ddcE
THAAD Terminal High Altitude Area Defense missile system 14th TEST: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S65JESDwUTU
The U.S. Missile Defense Agency, conducted an intercept test of the THAAD. This was flight test THAAD-23 on August 30, 2019: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0zqSUqUuCI
round Based Interceptor (GBI)
MDA video of their test of the Ground-Based Midcourse Defense's (GMD) Ground Based Interceptor (GBI) upgraded booster vehicle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtzVC4LXtsE
Anti-Ballistic Ground Based Interceptor Missile Knocks Out Intercontinental Ballistic Missile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5dXTUhPwB8
>Also warhead like the Pershing 2 is very different from df21 or df17, comparing them is moronic.
The DF-21D is a literal copy of the Pershing II, down to the terminal radar guidance.
Oh, well no, that isn't the point. Defenses like the SM-3 rely on faster interception because they need to hit an incoming warhead while the warhead is still in space. This means the SM-3 must launch soon after the ballistic missile does, and the flight path of the ballistic missile must be predicted (which is easy, the hard part is detecting it accurately in a short period of time). There's nothing the warhead can do because the SM-3 warhead is just a rod with thrusters and light sensors. A heavy warhead would need ridiculous thrusters of its own to dodge an SM-3, it's just not logical.
A glider doesn't spend much time in space, it comes back down to atmosphere so it can change course. You still need to widely lead the glider to intercept it, but now you can't predict its course because even minor changes will make you miss by miles. The glider isn't doing hard maneuvers, it's just changing its course slightly but significantly.
Probably no country has any real operational or remotely close to operational glider.
>untested weapon system is created
>"GUYS GUYS the (insert country known for corruption, lies, and shoddy construction) built some kind of wonder weapon! it can (insert claim here)
>pro-western folk point out there is no documented evidence to prove the before mentioned claims, as the only shown test if any exist do not live up to the claim
>anti-western performs mental gymnastics as they slide away from the topic of the weapons actual capabilities, as they themselves do not know how capable the weapon is
>they proceed to argue with having nothing been actually learned or discovered about the weapons true capabilities
why do they do this? the people who argue for these weapons seem to not be concerned with how reliable the weapon truly is or whether they actually work. I'd say it's because they're not westerners but there are plenty of anti-west people with the exact same mentality. These people seem to value a sketchy weapon that hasn't seen any combat and therefor losses over a proven, but not invincible product.
China tested those against moving target ships lol. The goalition fleet ran away afterwards. You are just ignorant
>China tested those against moving target ships lol.
So, you can show me the test of the DF-17 hitting a moving ship?
Every time there's a Navy thread it's the same shit over and over, and it's obvious there's maybe two posters on /k/ who have any idea. I actually suspect these threads are Chinese attempts to bait out classified info.
>hypersonics
>CIWS
>old tech
>carriers will be 10nm away and easy to detect, pussies if the stay outside of the engagement envelope
>what's EMCON?
>what's defense in depth?
>CIWS
>lasers and railguns
>the missiles are too fast
>CIWS
JTFC
How is one supposed to pronounce CIWS? I recall AC7 calling it "see-wizz," but I'm not confident that's really right.
Like that. See-whiz
If China has any foresight at all they'll simply wait a decade or two before invading Taiwan. Right now Taiwan is the singular manufacture of specific chips, very important chips. If China attacks now the USA has the option to either go to full scale war with China, or become obsolete. Instead, if China waits a decade or two for the USA to build their own plants on their own soil Taiwan is strategically much less important and they will be far less willing to go to war over it
At this point they're worried if Russia falls apart enough to not be an issue for western Europe anymore they might refocus more of their military efforts on china.
Waiting a decade could just give the west time to unite further and make hard plans to deal with the Chinese threat in the 2030s.
They might be enough to keep carriers from loitering off the chinese coast, so the CSG's will just play keep away and send submarines to cruise missile the frick out of them and maintain a clear corridor for long range aircraft, and drones to supress anti ship missiles wholesale. Hypersonics are capable, and dangerous. But they don't render anything obsolete. The USA has a long history of seeing supposed game changing weapons, and then developing doctrines and weapons that absolutely slap the shit out of whatever the claimed effectiveness of the new weapons were in the first place.
The United States Navy is the sole reason piracy is down and countries all over the world no longer have big navies.
It literally rewrote the game for everyone. But only Chinks would be moronic enough to ruin this for everyone.
They think they can become a similar naval super power with a similar piracy suppression role.
I honestly doubt because China's foreign policy has always been aggressive and demanding tribute/bow downs. It'll just piss everyone off. Also, China's naval history hasn't been that good.
US navy didn't do shit about piracy. Somali pirate was stopped by international effort not by US. US navy is to bully other countries you brainwashed moron.
ignorant of history.
>US navy didn't do shit about piracy.
Literal moron with no history in naval sailing and piracy.
Nah, he's pretty correct, Chinas modern naval history is pretty shit if we start at the 1800's where any relevant history is concerned. That said their current expansion and modernization has been prodigious, but they are yet unproven as a modern blue water navy. They have a LOT of catching up to do with their preferred foe in the USA. To discount the excess of actual flight time, and deployment time the US Marines and Navy have had over the last 80 years would be a fricking disaster. If the prevailing opinion is "lol america weak" you're going to be really fricking mad when thousands of sailors and hundreds of ships are sinking to the bottom of the south china sea. Hubris has always lead to disaster in terms of naval conflict.
>CTF 151
>international kinda
>USN plus rotating coalition support
>t. literal years of my life in GoA IRTC
I'm so glad the Great Firewall exists. It keeps morons like the one in this thread away from the rest of the internet.
Imagine the horde of morons unironically spamming propaganda if China posted on the same internet the rest of us do.
A carrier group is considered U.S sovereign territory. You attack one with missiles, be prepared to get your shit pushed in, in return. Simple as that.
>American brainwashed by their government and really believe they are the strongest
lol