https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/5/indias-modi-govt-replaces-countrys-name-with-bharat-in-g20-dinner-invite
They are renaming them selves to brap and made thier tank have cumblast cannons.
https://drdo.gov.in/120-mm-penetration-cum-blast-pcb-and-thermobaric-tb-ammunition-mbt-arjun
I dont think they care.
>n-nooo, the name we used for centuries is slavery, stop enslaving us
why are they this way? all the browns on earth continue to blame whites for literally everything, it's so weird
at least cum blast is funny
If Modi can change the name it makes it easier to change the guiding principles as well. He can get rid of that pesky "WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens:" and start fresh.
>n-nooo, the name we used for centuries is slavery, stop enslaving us
why are they this way? all the browns on earth continue to blame whites for literally everything, it's so weird
at least cum blast is funny
Renaming India to Bharat (which is an ancient Sanskrit word) is extra dumb because the word India comes from: >India (English) < Indus (Greek) < Hindus (Persian) < Sindhu (Sanskrit).
They're asking us to use a Sanskrit word instead of a Sanskrit word. Hooray, decolonialism!
Nothing is certain yet. So far Boeing "made a proposal" and Poland "showed interest". That's it. I personally wouldn't mind air superiority fighter, but do we REALLY need it? >t. Polak
The EX is fully multi-role and not just bolted on like the mudhen, while it will be great at air-to-air I wouldn't call it an air superiority fighter at this point, just a very capable multi-role.
They track the signals emitted by ground radars, search and destroy ground installations, communicate the information between other branches and units and provide jamming against the air defenses.
Crossing a bit into the DEAD territory there. SEAD is mainly about coercing hostile SAM crews turn off their targeting radars, causing their missiles to miss. Or that's how it was in the Vietnam War with the tech of the time, modern ARMs will outright kill the radar even when they turn it of when the hear Magnum cos they remember where they were. When the SAM crews are too scared to effectively operate, you can consider them suppressed.
DEAD is the goal but is difficult to achieve. The closer you are to that goal the more suppressed the enemy is generally and the less they're willing to expose themselves. A similar logic goes for suppressive fire - it works best if your enemy has just witnessed one of their comrades' head explode and smear blood and brains everywhere, even if they're a fighting force of 100.
>Lob radar seeking missiles at ground air defenses >Escort shit like the Growler which provides EW >Takes out other fighters, which are part of air defenses.
Realistically though, these are more something you would use FOR air defenses, or as missile trucks primarily.
For hitting an area with thick AD you'd want to use the F-35. The F-35 is getting is own EW variant so now we'll have strikes of 35s and 22s possible, full package, with the B-21 if more ordinance is required.
>I don't understand, how do fighters provide SEAD?
For all practical purposes, it's a team game of systems with the following components:
>jammers to suppress ground radar targeting the aircraft >air-to-ground weapons to destroy ground radars >air-to-air weapons to take out enemy fighters
There are different aircraft and weapons that excel at things, with current 5th generation fighters being able to use their AESA radar as a tiny jammer in itself, but the classic setup had aircraft for electronic warfare, aircraft for ground attack and aircraft for air defense.
However, this being the current year, the Next Generation Jammer program moves pretty much everything into a pod which can be installed even on drones while combining even more features and performance into that single pod. Who knows what things will look like next, huh? It's the power of AMERICA.
>The pod operates independently of the aircraft's systems, automatically responding to identified threats. One unique aspect of the NGJ is that its AESA array combines EW, coms, radar, and signals intelligence. AESA is known to perform EW and radar, but also handling SIGINT and serving as a communications array are new capabilities. Other than dedicated EW aircraft, the pods can be installed on other platforms like the UCLASS with little modification.
>AN/ALQ -99 finally getting replaced
I’ll believe it when I see it. Thank god the Air Force actually has useful jamming systems like the 131, and soon the angry kitten (Allah willing)
One of the Air Force's missions is to provide SEAD. Its stupid, but they fought to have that mission. Also the EX is built off the E platform, which does air to ground.
>Its stupid
It's really not, having air superiority drastically reduces losses on the ground so it's worth risking a dozen pilots and jets to do SEAD / DEAD instead of asking the army to advance unsupported to do DEAD on the ground.
EX is an all in one. A bit more expensive up front but it also dramatically simplifies your logistics, training, and war planning when you only have to worry about one platform.
Couple that with the fact that the F-15 overperforms and simply crushes any competition in every single fucking given role it fulfills.
Fighter: Kill everything
Bomber: Also kill everything. One F-15 carries over half the JADM load of a fucking B-1 Bone/ Lancer. Two F-15s carries more. A fleet of F-15s single handedly cripples your enemy in the opening hour of combat.
EW: It does this too. Not widely talked about, but go ahead and search for it.
Recon: Yes it does carry sensor pods.
Giant dick flexing: yep.
and lastly:
Seamless integration with USAF Flight planning and operations: yes. You now have the USAF in your corner. That is what you are really paying for with F-15s over the single engine counterparts.
>SEAD
I don't understand, how do fighters provide SEAD?
They provide cover to those planes doing the SEADing…
I think he meant like they escort planes that can do SEAD/DEAD. Though honestly most of the other planes can self escort.
Fighters are often part of the enemy air defence and fighters shoot missiles at them
The F-15EX can carry the AGM-88 HARM, all the current GBUs and and all the current CBUs.
It can roll in with 2 HARMs, 6 SDBs and a TGP to do SEAD and if enemy air shows up it can jettison it's A2G stores and defend itself from the fighters.
Truly multi-role.
But the EX is brand new. Is there a brand new version of F-15 the air superiority jet?
It would be a dream if the Polish Commonwealth (Rzeczpospolita Polska) could be in the ultimate BIG LEAGUE, up there together with the United States and the United Kingdom in being able to carry out SEAD fully on its own.
>with unparalleled speed, range, payload and RCS (seriously it's the size of a barn even a BUK could probably get a lock)
Buy your own F1SEX today cause we know you don't get any lmao. And remember: if it's Boeing I ain't goeing
Some F-15 derivative actually wouldn't have been a bad choice for SEAD back in the day. You could fit ECM gear in the FAST packs.
Now i suppose the F-35 would do the job better but the USAF could still use a dedicated jammer aircraft to fill the gap the EF-111A left when it was retired. Begging for EA-18G support from the Navy doesn't cut it.
How many sites could one F35 realistically shack on one sortie? Like two? I’m genuinely asking because I don’t know much about the F35 when it comes to armament other than it can’t carry outside the internal pylons without decreasing its stealth capabilities. I know they would probably send a huge strike package so this question is probably moot, but I’m still curious how much one could do.
8x GBU-53/Bs internally is what Lockheed-Martin offered to the Finnish Air Force to use against 92N6Es and won the bid. You could also just target the S-400 TELARs directly. In addition, AGM-88G AARGM-ER integration is coming in Block 4.
I have an embarassing question - how exactly does numeration work with planes? I would assume that bigger number means made later and thus more modern right? kinda like how f35 is newer than f16. Does it not work like that with F15 vs F16?
They are in order of when they get selected for service, it doesn't mean higher number = better because like your F-15 / F-16 example the F-15 came first but is much more capable because the F-16 was designed to be cheap.
The other thing is we sometimes skip numbers for various reasons. There's no F-13 as 13 is considered unlucky. There's no F-19 either, though there were rumors and urban legends about it. And we flat out skipped 24-34 for no real reason.
>And we flat out skipped 24-34 for no real reason.
Most likely they were at one point or another assigned to theoretical aircraft that never made it past the drawing board and discarded to avoid any confusion with later models. >img case in point, one of them that even made it off the drawingboard
No, the F-16 looks like it's laughing at people, but it's kinda cute and goofy, while also having a sleek look.
The X32 looks like it's retarded. I mean, full on Down Syndrome with the Habsburg jaw. I'm surprised it's not drooling.
The x-32 was an example of "good idea now, bad idea later" it didn't need a b-variant for Vtol, had a relatively stealthy profile, but simply wasn't flexible for future upgrades. Internal bays, avionics, and engine space were HARD stuck in their current configuration, with little to planning for future improvements
The big skip was because X-32 and X-35 were the next X-plane numbers available at the time. A marketing decision was then made to use F-35 for continuity reasons. Contrast with the ATF program, which used the more honest YF (prototype fighter) rather than X (experimental).
The whole thing is about as dumb as calling the new bomber "B-21" instead of "B-3" in an attempt to convince Congress that it's a "bomber for the 21st century".
>F15EX >F-35A >F-16C and 3 F-16D >FA-50 and FA-50PL
Is Poland on a mission to collect not only every modern tank but also every jet on the market? Catch them all military equipment edition.
Because they are getting such a weird mix I'm starting to suspect they are going to start building their own planes and tanks based on what they learn from operating everything NATO has to offer.
That possibility is not out of questions, we are procuring planes in a pattern where we have a core made out of more pricey stuff like F16s and F35 and probably soon F15EX but also a cheaper substitutes that aren't necessarily as good but can be maintained with same parts and not as irreplaceable as the stuff before like Migs 29 and FA-50 so far what we lack are high end fighters and so F-15 is perfect choice
That's typically the long term goal of countries that purchase a variety of equipment. The US in WWI is a prime example of this where they purchased all sorts of planes from different countries and used what they learned to influence it's own industry on what works and what doesn't.
>Is Poland on a mission to collect not only every modern tank
Nope. Currently, we only make intervention purchases. The army has officially confirmed that the program of the new MBT called Wolf (pol. Wilk) will be based on a different machine.. It is speculated that it may be K3 - Koreans officially invited us to the program. I just don't remember if there was an official confirmation of accession. >FA-50PL
And here the reason is prosaic. Our Minister of National Defense is an idiot who thinks that the FA-50 is almost an F-16.
>we want all the himars >no, I don't mean a lot of himars, all the himars you have. and build some more, we want those too >f35 sound neat, we'll take em >missiles? yeah, who wouldn't? let's add some AA as well >tanks? yea, tanks are good. huh? no, I know we ordered a bunch of different types already but that's no problem, the more the merrier >f15ex? yea those look decent, we'll buy a bunch >say, do you have any helis lying around?
The great Potato Peeler from Belarus better pray Russia won't backslide into 1990s-tier dysfunction due to their special needs operation or there will be a special liberation operation
Yo polish MJR (a unit with NSM pic rel) trained and i believe stationed in Romania and Latvia, you should pay for advertisment 🙂
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/01/raytheon-to-supply-nsm-coastal-defense-system-to-romania/
If Ukraine falls, Poland and the Balts are next, and they know it. If they can arm themselves up enough, there's at least a chance that they'll be able to deter Russia, or stop them outright if deterrence fails.
>If Ukraine falls
That's not on the table at all unless Shi Jinping jumpstarts WW3. Too many US politicians tied their names to Ukraine effort and Russian establishment is too cautious to put the public opinion through an even bigger sanction wringer. Facade democracy like Russia where Trump-like spoilers aren't even possible needs to cater to the people, especially the NPCs. The price of electronics, clothes etc can't go up too much.
As it is Kremlin lives on a prayer that their financial system won't implode before something gets screwed up in Ukrainian foreign aid pipeline and they concede a status quo.
Considering the all the purcheses, a completely militarized Poland would not simply present a deterrence, it'd be a regime changer for Moscow, where their whole crop of zoomer men get ashtrayed by the sheer fire power and accuracy way before Poles run out of steam, manpower-wise. And that's under the pretense of Russia rearming fully. Poland doesn't have to slug it out all the way to Kamchatka to collapse Russia's establishment. Prigozhin and Surovikin types would pull the break on a nation-ending war by marching on Moscow and just like w/ Priggy, nobody would stop them.
Poland is aiming to be a dominant power.
Rest of Europe/NATO is rather lackluster in terms of support and capability.
Given Russia’s descent, Poland wants to be ready to defend against a harsh invasion like shown in Ukraine.
Poland also wants to build up its MIC and domestic industry too.
It certainly seems better on paper than the F-15C from everything but a pure dog fighting perspective. Once AIM-260 JATM and whatever that super long range missile Raytheon is making start becoming common it should really begin to shine as a missile truck. At that point it could really fulfill the role of being able to spam BVR missiles at whatever and having a closer F-35 guide them in.
The new radar on the EX seems really impressive as well, being able to detect and lock targets from a substantially longer range.
...w-why is poland arming itself to the teeth with literally everything they can get their hands on? hundreds of us, korean, domestic everything streaming in there every month. do they know something we dont?
>russia undergoing a special implosion operation is unlikely but possible, which would put Belarus at play -- at which point Poland permanently stops being the designated battleground between the east and west >both germany and france proved remarkably lacking for months after the war began, which means a strong land army gives poland influence over the nearby small EE countries like the baltics >it would take a small miracle but russia could magically get its shit together and try for poland in 10 years or so, which a strong army discourages >helps with establishing your own MIC, which most countries that can support it want >if nothing else, most of this gear is good for ~20 years at least
No reason not to buy, especially since they're doing reasonably well economically.
The biggest one will be the political influence, having the largest army in the EU while bordering the Balkans will give Poland access to a lot of great trade deals in the area in exchange for protection.
The F-15EX would have been a little better if it went with the F110-GE-132 engines instead, but the procurement didn't want to budget and wait for them.
A quarter of the capabilities as a third Gen Chinese fighter. Please delete this thread and get over yourself US Stan. 100% this is a thread from a Mexican bot farm
Might be a part of the fun delivery system >For Poland, specifically, F-15EX could be part of the equation when it comes to the country possibly joining NATO's nuclear weapons sharing arrangements. Under that program, the U.S. military has B61 nuclear gravity bombs stockpiled at multiple bases across Europe and has procedures in place to make those weapons available to certain members of the alliance in the event of a sufficiently severe crisis.
The Drive
We already let the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Italy, and Turkey borrow our nukes. If Poland wants us to hide some B61 gravity bombs under their floorboards, then I say the more, the merrier.
Nope. Our politicians are too cowardly to use them without consulting Washington. And the military is too competent to allow such a thing offensively.
I don't know where people get this belief that we're crazy. It is in the Bundeswehr that some networks of rebels are broken up from time to time. We do not have such actions. In fact, we are a boring country.
>Our politicians are too cowardly to use them without consulting Washington.
They'd have to. The way nuclear sharing works is that host country gets to use the nuke, but the USAF is the one with the key to storage vault.
If..IF we actually end up buying those, all of our remaining MIGs and some F16 will most likely get transferred to Ukraine.
Also, they might be baiting our government to include them in the Arab style shopping spree that's currently happening..
They are not baiting, you can already say the deal was done, and it's very fresh, perhaps atrament didn't even fully dried out yet, and by all means we need those planes friend, we probably will replace mugs with them, we are not going to get rid of F16 because those planes have different roles my friend, and I shall say... >It's just a beginning, more to come in the next year
We have enough money to pay for what we already ordered and for many to come, having a good military can be much more beneficial than money you have spent on it, but also it's a result of MOD that was blueballed for the last 20 years and couldn't do shit on it's own without doing ancient tribalistic bureaucratic rituals just to get few extra screws for maintenance of rusty T-72, and it also came with increase in a budget spending with full shift in gears to have a mildly functional military with benefits that will tenfold benefit both for the economy, but also our non existent R&D, as well as the ability to not be a nation under constant threat, but to be the beacon of security no just in the region but also in Europe, and anon we have everything for it to achieve, if we wouldn't have any resources for the deals we did and deals to come, then it simply wouldn't be done and we would be still using old T-72s as our main workhorse and fly mig-21s , get over it, there is nothing to stop you from improving your life
It's nice to see our army replacing the old stuff but damn, it should be doing same thing with camo (mapa/lampart, anything is better than wuzeta) and personal protection stuff such as helmets and vests.
It is true, but there is a list of priorities first, tho I believe there were some changes made during this year mspo in Kielce, but if also thinking about it is there are any need to change it asap like we have with our vehicle park and guns we use
There were signed quite big contracts for helmets
https://zbiam.pl/maskpol-z-umowa-na-dostawe-helmow-dla-wojska-polskiego/
Plate carriers
https://defence24.pl/sily-zbrojne/nowe-kamizelki-dla-wojsk-operacyjnych
Optics
https://zbiam.pl/nowe-celowniki-holograficzne-zamowione-przez-agencje-uzbrojenia/
And all, but szpej is kept in storage and never used because of the paperwork if something breaks. Hope this will change with more equipment arriving and soldiers will train with all their toys.
The F-18 made certain sacrifices in order to be usable from a carrier. The F-15 is somewhat superior in most aspects, even compared to the Superbug.
That said, there were a few countries that really wanted two engines and short runway capability, so they bought F-18s instead of F-15s. Also, for a long time, F-18s were considerably cheaper than F-15s, and slightly cheaper per flight hour. That price difference has mostly vanished as both have gotten newer engines and electronics, so if you're buying a heavy Western fighter-bomber, you might as well go with the Eagle. Finally, while the Eagle production line has been kept on life support for years with small-batch orders and now the EX, SH production is winding down and expected to end in the next 2-3 years, which means reduced long-term support options.
The Aardvark was a great multi-role when dumb bombs where the norm but it would take a huge modernization program to make it take current weapons and swing wings have proven more trouble than they are worth.
I don't think we should bring back the 111 nowadays but we didn't really have much close to it in capabilities until arguably the B-21, and maybe still not.
You just described the F-111, except they are already gone.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The F-111 wasn't vulnerable to ground fire when it was introduced into combat.
Like I said, I think the B-21 is the closest we have but being subsonic seems like a drawback to me as for being able to get a conventional strike out quickly.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The F-111 wasn't vulnerable to ground fire when it was introduced into combat.
Thats nice.
it is now.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why do you feel the need to start some kind of antagonistic debate with me?
I never advocated for bringing back the F-111. What I'm saying is that the role it filled isn't being filled anymore. A stealth aircraft would fill the role better, just as the F-111 filled the role of nuclear bomber better than the B-58 and the B-58 filled the role of slower bombers like the B-36.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>What I'm saying is that the role it filled isn't being filled anymore.
What role is that?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>What role is that?
A fast air interdiction aircraft with a sizable bomb load. I suppose this role could be filled in part with weapons like JSOW, but bombs are still useful.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Mudhen. NEXT.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The F-111 and weapons systems like it have considerably higher bomb loads than the F-15.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Mudhen has more hardpoints, with more datalinked/power
EX varient puts that pure tonnage down to less than a 2k pd difference
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why wouldn't that difference be made up if one were to develop a new 5th/6th generation air interdiction aircraft with the same level of technology?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why would you do that when the mudhen completes the mission?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Sometimes it can't. An aircraft like what I've described has fundamentally different capabilities to an F-15EX.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Sometimes it can't.
It litterally completes every mission the F-111 does, yet does it better because it has more datalinks/hardpoints in general.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm not talking about the F-111 in a modern context, I am talking about the ability to perform deep strike missions in a hostile threat environment, which, when the F-111 was new, it excelled at. It obviously does not now.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
> perform deep strike missions in a hostile threat environment
Then that would be the B-1 or the F-35 until the Raider comes online.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>An aircraft like what I've described has fundamentally different capabilities to an F-15EX.
Explicitly identify those capabilities
2k more payload?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Explicitly identify those capabilities
More payload, stealth, greater takeoff weight, other equipment dedicated to air interdiction and deep strike integrated into the aircraft from conception. >2k more payload?
No, more like 25,000-30,000lbs more. Again, this would be a dedicated attack aircraft. The F-15EX is not.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
> all that >plus stealth
Sounds incredibly fucking expensive for a niche mission that is already being served (underserved you would claim, but still served to an extent) by other craft.
Not going to tell you its not possible, just that it would be a strategic blunder.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It would make my autism happy, though. I think I'll send a screencap of this conversation to the Secretary of the Air Force.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
God speed little 'tismo
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Mudhen can carry 14 tons of payload >You want to roughly double that
That's B-52 territory (35 tons). What you really want is a B-1R. I loved that concept, too--but the airframes are getting too old for that kind of flying (contrast with B-52 operations that generate far less stress on the airframes with each sortie). And the B-21 is strictly subsonic, because supersonic was considered far too expensive for a stealth jet that large.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>B-1R
First of all, it's called the B-ONE-R.
Second
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Smartbombs have really reduced the tonnage needed to perform most missions. Extra payload is nice, but not strictly necessary.
Also, the F-111F only had a payload capacity of 16 tons to the Mudhen's 14 tons, and the FB-111 topped out at 18. That's not a huge difference. The F-111's main advantages over the F-15E were its low-altitude performance and range, thanks to the variable wings, and those aren't as important as they used to be.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The F-111 wasn't vulnerable to ground fire when it was introduced into combat.
The SA-2 entered service 7 years earlier and would have no problem splashing an F-111.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The SA-2 entered service 7 years earlier and would have no problem splashing an F-111.
The SA-2 engaged the F-111 many times in Vietnam and never achieved any hits. No F-111s were lost to ground fire in Vietnam. All were lost due to issues with avionics, particularly in its first deployment.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADC007778.pdf
Poland would be certainly one of the first in line to buy at least 16 of them, and to advance on your upcoming questions, F22 are already stationed on polish airfields since the beginning of war in Ukraine, we are fairly familiar with it as much as hosting them on our soil can get us to, and it is something that we want but can't get
There are quite a few problems with it it's not even because USA doesn't want to spill out some of its secrets, it's also because F22 is a legitimately lost technology, especially it's engine so if someone would want to buy them they would be needed to be removed from US storage and USA will not have them, starting their production even with USA size resources is almost impossible because every single person who worked on it is dead and many businesses that made materials for the engine, some important outsourced details are long gone with people who knew the manufacturing process dead as well, it would be a miracle if lockmart would manage to regain their production because if fucking shittingly complicated their production was
yep
also fuck garden gnomes
I've only ever seen shitskins write "pooland." Cuz it applies to India more than to Poland.
Post skin.
polacks will never be white
i am blond hair i have, you gypsy
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/5/indias-modi-govt-replaces-countrys-name-with-bharat-in-g20-dinner-invite
They are renaming them selves to brap and made thier tank have cumblast cannons.
https://drdo.gov.in/120-mm-penetration-cum-blast-pcb-and-thermobaric-tb-ammunition-mbt-arjun
I dont think they care.
>n-nooo, the name we used for centuries is slavery, stop enslaving us
why are they this way? all the browns on earth continue to blame whites for literally everything, it's so weird
at least cum blast is funny
If Modi can change the name it makes it easier to change the guiding principles as well. He can get rid of that pesky "WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens:" and start fresh.
Renaming India to Bharat (which is an ancient Sanskrit word) is extra dumb because the word India comes from:
>India (English) < Indus (Greek) < Hindus (Persian) < Sindhu (Sanskrit).
They're asking us to use a Sanskrit word instead of a Sanskrit word. Hooray, decolonialism!
I should mention "Sindhu" is where the words
"Hindi" and "Hindu" come from. Are they going to rename their language and religion too?
f1sex
Nothing is certain yet. So far Boeing "made a proposal" and Poland "showed interest". That's it. I personally wouldn't mind air superiority fighter, but do we REALLY need it?
>t. Polak
>but do we REALLY need it?
Yes you do. Please use it to kill vatshits.
Poland is not at war
Ukies vs Ziggers is enough
The EX is fully multi-role and not just bolted on like the mudhen, while it will be great at air-to-air I wouldn't call it an air superiority fighter at this point, just a very capable multi-role.
Yes we need it. You cant do proper SEAD without air superiority fighters
>t. another Polak
>SEAD
I don't understand, how do fighters provide SEAD?
They provide cover to those planes doing the SEADing…
I think he meant like they escort planes that can do SEAD/DEAD. Though honestly most of the other planes can self escort.
Fighters are often part of the enemy air defence and fighters shoot missiles at them
They track the signals emitted by ground radars, search and destroy ground installations, communicate the information between other branches and units and provide jamming against the air defenses.
Crossing a bit into the DEAD territory there. SEAD is mainly about coercing hostile SAM crews turn off their targeting radars, causing their missiles to miss. Or that's how it was in the Vietnam War with the tech of the time, modern ARMs will outright kill the radar even when they turn it of when the hear Magnum cos they remember where they were. When the SAM crews are too scared to effectively operate, you can consider them suppressed.
DEAD is the goal but is difficult to achieve. The closer you are to that goal the more suppressed the enemy is generally and the less they're willing to expose themselves. A similar logic goes for suppressive fire - it works best if your enemy has just witnessed one of their comrades' head explode and smear blood and brains everywhere, even if they're a fighting force of 100.
>Lob radar seeking missiles at ground air defenses
>Escort shit like the Growler which provides EW
>Takes out other fighters, which are part of air defenses.
Realistically though, these are more something you would use FOR air defenses, or as missile trucks primarily.
For hitting an area with thick AD you'd want to use the F-35. The F-35 is getting is own EW variant so now we'll have strikes of 35s and 22s possible, full package, with the B-21 if more ordinance is required.
>The F-35 is getting is own EW variant
SOURCE NAO!!
Here's a very simplified answer to that.
YGBSM is peak Jet Jockey cowboying.
Vipers are great SEAD platforms, but F-4Gs were soul.
>I don't understand, how do fighters provide SEAD?
For all practical purposes, it's a team game of systems with the following components:
>jammers to suppress ground radar targeting the aircraft
>air-to-ground weapons to destroy ground radars
>air-to-air weapons to take out enemy fighters
There are different aircraft and weapons that excel at things, with current 5th generation fighters being able to use their AESA radar as a tiny jammer in itself, but the classic setup had aircraft for electronic warfare, aircraft for ground attack and aircraft for air defense.
However, this being the current year, the Next Generation Jammer program moves pretty much everything into a pod which can be installed even on drones while combining even more features and performance into that single pod. Who knows what things will look like next, huh? It's the power of AMERICA.
>The pod operates independently of the aircraft's systems, automatically responding to identified threats. One unique aspect of the NGJ is that its AESA array combines EW, coms, radar, and signals intelligence. AESA is known to perform EW and radar, but also handling SIGINT and serving as a communications array are new capabilities. Other than dedicated EW aircraft, the pods can be installed on other platforms like the UCLASS with little modification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Jammer
>AN/ALQ -99 finally getting replaced
I’ll believe it when I see it. Thank god the Air Force actually has useful jamming systems like the 131, and soon the angry kitten (Allah willing)
One of the Air Force's missions is to provide SEAD. Its stupid, but they fought to have that mission. Also the EX is built off the E platform, which does air to ground.
>Its stupid
It's really not, having air superiority drastically reduces losses on the ground so it's worth risking a dozen pilots and jets to do SEAD / DEAD instead of asking the army to advance unsupported to do DEAD on the ground.
>one of the air force’s missions is (something literally only the airforce can do effectively)
>stupid
retard
EX is an all in one. A bit more expensive up front but it also dramatically simplifies your logistics, training, and war planning when you only have to worry about one platform.
Couple that with the fact that the F-15 overperforms and simply crushes any competition in every single fucking given role it fulfills.
Fighter: Kill everything
Bomber: Also kill everything. One F-15 carries over half the JADM load of a fucking B-1 Bone/ Lancer. Two F-15s carries more. A fleet of F-15s single handedly cripples your enemy in the opening hour of combat.
EW: It does this too. Not widely talked about, but go ahead and search for it.
Recon: Yes it does carry sensor pods.
Giant dick flexing: yep.
and lastly:
Seamless integration with USAF Flight planning and operations: yes. You now have the USAF in your corner. That is what you are really paying for with F-15s over the single engine counterparts.
What the fuck do you think performs SEAD??
The F-15EX can carry the AGM-88 HARM, all the current GBUs and and all the current CBUs.
It can roll in with 2 HARMs, 6 SDBs and a TGP to do SEAD and if enemy air shows up it can jettison it's A2G stores and defend itself from the fighters.
Truly multi-role.
You should use your military to kill brown refugees for Europe please. Russia is completely irrelevant compared to that threat
Anon, Russia is that threat
All F-15Es are slower than F-15A/C, especially in turns
It's heavier and has tons more drag by nature of having CFTs and dozens of hardpoints
The EX is really just a missile bus, not the air dominance fighter of its predecessor.
But the EX is brand new. Is there a brand new version of F-15 the air superiority jet?
It would be a dream if the Polish Commonwealth (Rzeczpospolita Polska) could be in the ultimate BIG LEAGUE, up there together with the United States and the United Kingdom in being able to carry out SEAD fully on its own.
>with unparalleled speed, range, payload and RCS (seriously it's the size of a barn even a BUK could probably get a lock)
Buy your own F1SEX today cause we know you don't get any lmao. And remember: if it's Boeing I ain't goeing
Some F-15 derivative actually wouldn't have been a bad choice for SEAD back in the day. You could fit ECM gear in the FAST packs.
Now i suppose the F-35 would do the job better but the USAF could still use a dedicated jammer aircraft to fill the gap the EF-111A left when it was retired. Begging for EA-18G support from the Navy doesn't cut it.
How many sites could one F35 realistically shack on one sortie? Like two? I’m genuinely asking because I don’t know much about the F35 when it comes to armament other than it can’t carry outside the internal pylons without decreasing its stealth capabilities. I know they would probably send a huge strike package so this question is probably moot, but I’m still curious how much one could do.
8x GBU-53/Bs internally is what Lockheed-Martin offered to the Finnish Air Force to use against 92N6Es and won the bid. You could also just target the S-400 TELARs directly. In addition, AGM-88G AARGM-ER integration is coming in Block 4.
I have an embarassing question - how exactly does numeration work with planes? I would assume that bigger number means made later and thus more modern right? kinda like how f35 is newer than f16. Does it not work like that with F15 vs F16?
They are in order of when they get selected for service, it doesn't mean higher number = better because like your F-15 / F-16 example the F-15 came first but is much more capable because the F-16 was designed to be cheap.
The F-16 entered service just four years after the F-15 did. They were both being designed at the same time.
The other thing is we sometimes skip numbers for various reasons. There's no F-13 as 13 is considered unlucky. There's no F-19 either, though there were rumors and urban legends about it. And we flat out skipped 24-34 for no real reason.
>And we flat out skipped 24-34 for no real reason.
Most likely they were at one point or another assigned to theoretical aircraft that never made it past the drawing board and discarded to avoid any confusion with later models.
>img case in point, one of them that even made it off the drawingboard
I'm convinced that the thing in your picture lost the bid because of how fucking ugly it is.
It's not that bad from above. But it make you doubt the stealthiness and the weapon space of X32 with how stupidly large the intake is.
If that thing had performed far better than the competition, I still believe it would have lost because of how it looks.
It looks like it's laughing at people
No, the F-16 looks like it's laughing at people, but it's kinda cute and goofy, while also having a sleek look.
The X32 looks like it's retarded. I mean, full on Down Syndrome with the Habsburg jaw. I'm surprised it's not drooling.
The x-32 was an example of "good idea now, bad idea later" it didn't need a b-variant for Vtol, had a relatively stealthy profile, but simply wasn't flexible for future upgrades. Internal bays, avionics, and engine space were HARD stuck in their current configuration, with little to planning for future improvements
The big skip was because X-32 and X-35 were the next X-plane numbers available at the time. A marketing decision was then made to use F-35 for continuity reasons. Contrast with the ATF program, which used the more honest YF (prototype fighter) rather than X (experimental).
The whole thing is about as dumb as calling the new bomber "B-21" instead of "B-3" in an attempt to convince Congress that it's a "bomber for the 21st century".
>F15EX
>F-35A
>F-16C and 3 F-16D
>FA-50 and FA-50PL
Is Poland on a mission to collect not only every modern tank but also every jet on the market? Catch them all military equipment edition.
Because they are getting such a weird mix I'm starting to suspect they are going to start building their own planes and tanks based on what they learn from operating everything NATO has to offer.
I think current admin is banking on there going to be a war and they're sucking up everything from the market
krabs are getting a new production line too, even though Poland is ordering 700 Korean analogs
This. The waitlist for F-15s is several years shorter than the waitlist for F-35s.
That possibility is not out of questions, we are procuring planes in a pattern where we have a core made out of more pricey stuff like F16s and F35 and probably soon F15EX but also a cheaper substitutes that aren't necessarily as good but can be maintained with same parts and not as irreplaceable as the stuff before like Migs 29 and FA-50 so far what we lack are high end fighters and so F-15 is perfect choice
That's typically the long term goal of countries that purchase a variety of equipment. The US in WWI is a prime example of this where they purchased all sorts of planes from different countries and used what they learned to influence it's own industry on what works and what doesn't.
>Is Poland on a mission to collect not only every modern tank
Nope. Currently, we only make intervention purchases. The army has officially confirmed that the program of the new MBT called Wolf (pol. Wilk) will be based on a different machine.. It is speculated that it may be K3 - Koreans officially invited us to the program. I just don't remember if there was an official confirmation of accession.
>FA-50PL
And here the reason is prosaic. Our Minister of National Defense is an idiot who thinks that the FA-50 is almost an F-16.
>a modernized F-15 could become Poland' main aircraft
COOM
Poland are poo morons of Europe
They don't have money to buy all this stuff they take loans for it
>t. seething slav
just like every single country in the world
welcome to 21st century brother, would you like a loan?
>we want all the himars
>no, I don't mean a lot of himars, all the himars you have. and build some more, we want those too
>f35 sound neat, we'll take em
>missiles? yeah, who wouldn't? let's add some AA as well
>tanks? yea, tanks are good. huh? no, I know we ordered a bunch of different types already but that's no problem, the more the merrier
>f15ex? yea those look decent, we'll buy a bunch
>say, do you have any helis lying around?
The great Potato Peeler from Belarus better pray Russia won't backslide into 1990s-tier dysfunction due to their special needs operation or there will be a special liberation operation
You forgot 96 AH-64E helicopters being pretty much a sealed deal in last stages of price negotiations
Huh. So that's why they bought our NSMs, as the only current operators aside from us (Norway) and the US.
Yo polish MJR (a unit with NSM pic rel) trained and i believe stationed in Romania and Latvia, you should pay for advertisment 🙂
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/01/raytheon-to-supply-nsm-coastal-defense-system-to-romania/
https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/05/05/latvian-government-approves-110-million-naval-strike-missile-buy/
Why the fuck they need all of this?
If Ukraine falls, Poland and the Balts are next, and they know it. If they can arm themselves up enough, there's at least a chance that they'll be able to deter Russia, or stop them outright if deterrence fails.
>If Ukraine falls
That's not on the table at all unless Shi Jinping jumpstarts WW3. Too many US politicians tied their names to Ukraine effort and Russian establishment is too cautious to put the public opinion through an even bigger sanction wringer. Facade democracy like Russia where Trump-like spoilers aren't even possible needs to cater to the people, especially the NPCs. The price of electronics, clothes etc can't go up too much.
As it is Kremlin lives on a prayer that their financial system won't implode before something gets screwed up in Ukrainian foreign aid pipeline and they concede a status quo.
Considering the all the purcheses, a completely militarized Poland would not simply present a deterrence, it'd be a regime changer for Moscow, where their whole crop of zoomer men get ashtrayed by the sheer fire power and accuracy way before Poles run out of steam, manpower-wise. And that's under the pretense of Russia rearming fully. Poland doesn't have to slug it out all the way to Kamchatka to collapse Russia's establishment. Prigozhin and Surovikin types would pull the break on a nation-ending war by marching on Moscow and just like w/ Priggy, nobody would stop them.
>Poland
> will fall to vatmoronstan
Did (You) bring enough sauce for the entire class?
Poland is aiming to be a dominant power.
Rest of Europe/NATO is rather lackluster in terms of support and capability.
Given Russia’s descent, Poland wants to be ready to defend against a harsh invasion like shown in Ukraine.
Poland also wants to build up its MIC and domestic industry too.
garden gnomes are in power, and they really like to start wars
It certainly seems better on paper than the F-15C from everything but a pure dog fighting perspective. Once AIM-260 JATM and whatever that super long range missile Raytheon is making start becoming common it should really begin to shine as a missile truck. At that point it could really fulfill the role of being able to spam BVR missiles at whatever and having a closer F-35 guide them in.
The new radar on the EX seems really impressive as well, being able to detect and lock targets from a substantially longer range.
...w-why is poland arming itself to the teeth with literally everything they can get their hands on? hundreds of us, korean, domestic everything streaming in there every month. do they know something we dont?
>russia undergoing a special implosion operation is unlikely but possible, which would put Belarus at play -- at which point Poland permanently stops being the designated battleground between the east and west
>both germany and france proved remarkably lacking for months after the war began, which means a strong land army gives poland influence over the nearby small EE countries like the baltics
>it would take a small miracle but russia could magically get its shit together and try for poland in 10 years or so, which a strong army discourages
>helps with establishing your own MIC, which most countries that can support it want
>if nothing else, most of this gear is good for ~20 years at least
No reason not to buy, especially since they're doing reasonably well economically.
The biggest one will be the political influence, having the largest army in the EU while bordering the Balkans will give Poland access to a lot of great trade deals in the area in exchange for protection.
bordering the Balkans
>mfw poland already annexed slovakia and hungary with all their new toys when nobody was looking
Being the EU country bordering China at the Ural will give Poland plenty leverage in foreign policy
not to mention being the only other NAFTA member besides the US
and the only Catholic state in the UAE
The F-15EX would have been a little better if it went with the F110-GE-132 engines instead, but the procurement didn't want to budget and wait for them.
A quarter of the capabilities as a third Gen Chinese fighter. Please delete this thread and get over yourself US Stan. 100% this is a thread from a Mexican bot farm
no one likes chink shit
>t. chink
F1 SEX
Yeah it's the air superiority fighter you want, even if you need to kill a satellite.
>The F15 is so horrible the US has to sob and lie about how “le none of them have been shot down!”.
>what is photoshop?
The incident is real, but the two left pictures are not.
Solo Wing Pixy?
It's never a war crime the first time, also what are the losers going to do call the world police to arrest you?
pretty sure more chinese died then than there's microbes on planet earth
Not when compared to the Based-111.
Need to make a F-111EX and fuck the F-15.
Might be a part of the fun delivery system
>For Poland, specifically, F-15EX could be part of the equation when it comes to the country possibly joining NATO's nuclear weapons sharing arrangements. Under that program, the U.S. military has B61 nuclear gravity bombs stockpiled at multiple bases across Europe and has procedures in place to make those weapons available to certain members of the alliance in the event of a sufficiently severe crisis.
The Drive
They will not get any nukes, US will not allow it
Yea i wouldn't worry about it 🙂
We already let the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Italy, and Turkey borrow our nukes. If Poland wants us to hide some B61 gravity bombs under their floorboards, then I say the more, the merrier.
>polacks get a few nukes once they pinky promise it's for defense
>moscow blows up 6 hours later
I'm not necessarily against it, mind you, but...
Nope. Our politicians are too cowardly to use them without consulting Washington. And the military is too competent to allow such a thing offensively.
I don't know where people get this belief that we're crazy. It is in the Bundeswehr that some networks of rebels are broken up from time to time. We do not have such actions. In fact, we are a boring country.
>Our politicians are too cowardly to use them without consulting Washington.
They'd have to. The way nuclear sharing works is that host country gets to use the nuke, but the USAF is the one with the key to storage vault.
>you don’t have enough natural gas reserves to make it another winter?
that was vatnik last winter cope
you need to make new one for this year
Does the EX use the same engines of the Strike Eagle, or are they some modernized version?
If..IF we actually end up buying those, all of our remaining MIGs and some F16 will most likely get transferred to Ukraine.
Also, they might be baiting our government to include them in the Arab style shopping spree that's currently happening..
They are not baiting, you can already say the deal was done, and it's very fresh, perhaps atrament didn't even fully dried out yet, and by all means we need those planes friend, we probably will replace mugs with them, we are not going to get rid of F16 because those planes have different roles my friend, and I shall say...
>It's just a beginning, more to come in the next year
nice trips
they are going to put us poorfags in debt for next 25 years
We have enough money to pay for what we already ordered and for many to come, having a good military can be much more beneficial than money you have spent on it, but also it's a result of MOD that was blueballed for the last 20 years and couldn't do shit on it's own without doing ancient tribalistic bureaucratic rituals just to get few extra screws for maintenance of rusty T-72, and it also came with increase in a budget spending with full shift in gears to have a mildly functional military with benefits that will tenfold benefit both for the economy, but also our non existent R&D, as well as the ability to not be a nation under constant threat, but to be the beacon of security no just in the region but also in Europe, and anon we have everything for it to achieve, if we wouldn't have any resources for the deals we did and deals to come, then it simply wouldn't be done and we would be still using old T-72s as our main workhorse and fly mig-21s , get over it, there is nothing to stop you from improving your life
It's nice to see our army replacing the old stuff but damn, it should be doing same thing with camo (mapa/lampart, anything is better than wuzeta) and personal protection stuff such as helmets and vests.
It is true, but there is a list of priorities first, tho I believe there were some changes made during this year mspo in Kielce, but if also thinking about it is there are any need to change it asap like we have with our vehicle park and guns we use
There were signed quite big contracts for helmets
https://zbiam.pl/maskpol-z-umowa-na-dostawe-helmow-dla-wojska-polskiego/
Plate carriers
https://defence24.pl/sily-zbrojne/nowe-kamizelki-dla-wojsk-operacyjnych
Optics
https://zbiam.pl/nowe-celowniki-holograficzne-zamowione-przez-agencje-uzbrojenia/
And all, but szpej is kept in storage and never used because of the paperwork if something breaks. Hope this will change with more equipment arriving and soldiers will train with all their toys.
why not super bugs
The F-18 made certain sacrifices in order to be usable from a carrier. The F-15 is somewhat superior in most aspects, even compared to the Superbug.
That said, there were a few countries that really wanted two engines and short runway capability, so they bought F-18s instead of F-15s. Also, for a long time, F-18s were considerably cheaper than F-15s, and slightly cheaper per flight hour. That price difference has mostly vanished as both have gotten newer engines and electronics, so if you're buying a heavy Western fighter-bomber, you might as well go with the Eagle. Finally, while the Eagle production line has been kept on life support for years with small-batch orders and now the EX, SH production is winding down and expected to end in the next 2-3 years, which means reduced long-term support options.
They don't call it F-1 SEX for nothing.
But no one calls it that, retard
>Does the F-15EX have unparalleled speed, range and payload?
Naw
The Aardvark was a great multi-role when dumb bombs where the norm but it would take a huge modernization program to make it take current weapons and swing wings have proven more trouble than they are worth.
I don't think we should bring back the 111 nowadays but we didn't really have much close to it in capabilities until arguably the B-21, and maybe still not.
B-1
Expensive, on their way out, too observable/vulnerable.
You just described the F-111, except they are already gone.
The F-111 wasn't vulnerable to ground fire when it was introduced into combat.
Like I said, I think the B-21 is the closest we have but being subsonic seems like a drawback to me as for being able to get a conventional strike out quickly.
>The F-111 wasn't vulnerable to ground fire when it was introduced into combat.
Thats nice.
it is now.
Why do you feel the need to start some kind of antagonistic debate with me?
I never advocated for bringing back the F-111. What I'm saying is that the role it filled isn't being filled anymore. A stealth aircraft would fill the role better, just as the F-111 filled the role of nuclear bomber better than the B-58 and the B-58 filled the role of slower bombers like the B-36.
>What I'm saying is that the role it filled isn't being filled anymore.
What role is that?
>What role is that?
A fast air interdiction aircraft with a sizable bomb load. I suppose this role could be filled in part with weapons like JSOW, but bombs are still useful.
Mudhen. NEXT.
The F-111 and weapons systems like it have considerably higher bomb loads than the F-15.
Mudhen has more hardpoints, with more datalinked/power
EX varient puts that pure tonnage down to less than a 2k pd difference
Why wouldn't that difference be made up if one were to develop a new 5th/6th generation air interdiction aircraft with the same level of technology?
Why would you do that when the mudhen completes the mission?
Sometimes it can't. An aircraft like what I've described has fundamentally different capabilities to an F-15EX.
>Sometimes it can't.
It litterally completes every mission the F-111 does, yet does it better because it has more datalinks/hardpoints in general.
I'm not talking about the F-111 in a modern context, I am talking about the ability to perform deep strike missions in a hostile threat environment, which, when the F-111 was new, it excelled at. It obviously does not now.
> perform deep strike missions in a hostile threat environment
Then that would be the B-1 or the F-35 until the Raider comes online.
>An aircraft like what I've described has fundamentally different capabilities to an F-15EX.
Explicitly identify those capabilities
2k more payload?
>Explicitly identify those capabilities
More payload, stealth, greater takeoff weight, other equipment dedicated to air interdiction and deep strike integrated into the aircraft from conception.
>2k more payload?
No, more like 25,000-30,000lbs more. Again, this would be a dedicated attack aircraft. The F-15EX is not.
> all that
>plus stealth
Sounds incredibly fucking expensive for a niche mission that is already being served (underserved you would claim, but still served to an extent) by other craft.
Not going to tell you its not possible, just that it would be a strategic blunder.
It would make my autism happy, though. I think I'll send a screencap of this conversation to the Secretary of the Air Force.
God speed little 'tismo
>Mudhen can carry 14 tons of payload
>You want to roughly double that
That's B-52 territory (35 tons). What you really want is a B-1R. I loved that concept, too--but the airframes are getting too old for that kind of flying (contrast with B-52 operations that generate far less stress on the airframes with each sortie). And the B-21 is strictly subsonic, because supersonic was considered far too expensive for a stealth jet that large.
>B-1R
First of all, it's called the B-ONE-R.
Second
Smartbombs have really reduced the tonnage needed to perform most missions. Extra payload is nice, but not strictly necessary.
Also, the F-111F only had a payload capacity of 16 tons to the Mudhen's 14 tons, and the FB-111 topped out at 18. That's not a huge difference. The F-111's main advantages over the F-15E were its low-altitude performance and range, thanks to the variable wings, and those aren't as important as they used to be.
>The F-111 wasn't vulnerable to ground fire when it was introduced into combat.
The SA-2 entered service 7 years earlier and would have no problem splashing an F-111.
>The SA-2 entered service 7 years earlier and would have no problem splashing an F-111.
The SA-2 engaged the F-111 many times in Vietnam and never achieved any hits. No F-111s were lost to ground fire in Vietnam. All were lost due to issues with avionics, particularly in its first deployment.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADC007778.pdf
if they are buying f35, why not follow it with f22? Apparently they have infinite money so I dont see an issue
IIRC, there's still export restrictions on the F-22. Otherwise Japan and Australia would've bought them instead of the 35.
Poland would be certainly one of the first in line to buy at least 16 of them, and to advance on your upcoming questions, F22 are already stationed on polish airfields since the beginning of war in Ukraine, we are fairly familiar with it as much as hosting them on our soil can get us to, and it is something that we want but can't get
This is correct. The F-22 has never been (publicly) considered to be made available to anyone but the USAF.
There are quite a few problems with it it's not even because USA doesn't want to spill out some of its secrets, it's also because F22 is a legitimately lost technology, especially it's engine so if someone would want to buy them they would be needed to be removed from US storage and USA will not have them, starting their production even with USA size resources is almost impossible because every single person who worked on it is dead and many businesses that made materials for the engine, some important outsourced details are long gone with people who knew the manufacturing process dead as well, it would be a miracle if lockmart would manage to regain their production because if fucking shittingly complicated their production was
No
The F-1SEX is a MILF (introduced in 1976) with an enormous rack (up to 22 air-to-air-missiles!)