Alright, so a lot of you may know that Medieval or Early Modern Germany tried sword control for those who didn't belong to nobility, and plenty of peasants wanted to own swords, so they made what were essentially swords, but with knife handles. This is very much like how people have been using pistol braces to get around SBR laws. Anyway, I'm looking to see if there are any documentaries about weapons control in the past. Youtube doesn't show me anything. When I searched on there, it just shoves pro-gun-control propaganda into my face, and you just know all the comments pointing out how gun control is stupid get caught by the algorithm and seen by nobody other than the person who wrote the comment.
In the back when times, the japs tried to ban swords in like 1588 or so
Those would've been samurai. They didn't have a functioning government back then. All they had were samurai warlords.
They were trying to ban regular people from owning though, to prevent an effective force from forming in any case
They didn't just try to ban swords. They tried to ban anything that could be used as a weapon which is why Japan has a lot of garbage weapons floating around in their martial arts culture.
>They didn't have a functioning government back then
No, the ban was after they had a functioning government who wanted to prevent another war (and more importantly disturbances to class structure) so they banned non-samurai from holding any weapons and managed to hold on to power for over 200 years until they were overthrown by the Emperor's supporters
>They didn't have a functioning government back then. All they had were samurai warlords.
Samurai warlords is technically a form of feudal government. Knights back then were like tax enforcers burning down villages and fighting enemies with zero armor, zero horses, and improvised farming tool weapons.
Rarely was it ever knights on knights in large confrontations, because most knights were tools for lords, sometimes warring lords, to maintain and expand control. Like barons.
The modern rifleman was once seen as a murderer on the battlefield compared to chivalrous knights who still used swords and bows and all sorts of outdated weaponry.
A squire is trained over years into a knight. A rifleman is a man with a rifle. It may take just months or even weeks to make a man proficient with a rifle, but we have moved on from musket lines and muzzleloaders.
>The modern rifleman was once seen as a murderer on the battlefield compared to chivalrous knights who still used swords and bows and all sorts of outdated weaponry.
Get this 80s fuddlore out of my face.
Nobles, knights and kings were the biggest fans of gunpowder weapons, which is why medieval kingdoms spent ludicrous amounts of money on good saltpeter from east before Europe discovered how to make good saltpeter, because from the beginning Europeans saw the way the wind was blowing. Heavy armoured cavalry still very much had a place in early modern battles, it was only really the improvements in metallurgy that allowed lighter firearms like later muskets that degraded that capability, but cuirassiers existed until well into the 20th Century. Hell, in the 16th and 17th centuries the heavy noble cavalry were toting braces of pistols.
They actually did so reasonably successfully a number of times
katanagari on Wikipedia should find you more info
>so a lot of you may know that Medieval or Early Modern Germany tried sword control for those who didn't belong to nobility, and plenty of peasants wanted to own swords, so they made what were essentially swords, but with knife handle
If anything it was due to guild controls on production, but even that claim is unfounded as there is no actual evidence, but messers came under the same regulations as swords in german cities, some cities limiting the length that can be carried around (fucking short) or banning them outright in some cases. Messers in reality are likely just a cultural flavour of the falchion that Germans liked because "neat".
For non-samurai yes. The same happened in the Edo period, with only the warrior class being able to wear the daisho (long and short sword) whereas everyone else had to settle for just a single short sword.
Medieval England and France for the most part (depending on city or town) banned the carriage of swords in towns unless you were a knight or above, limiting people to daggers whilst in city limits. Medieval Italian states were a mixed bag but generally swords could be worn in cities.
Bump. More historic weapons control, please.
Finding chest plates for those maids must be murder in of itself!
>Alright, so a lot of you may know that Medieval or Early Modern Germany tried sword control for those who didn't belong to nobility, and plenty of peasants wanted to own swords, so they made what were essentially swords, but with knife handles.
This was shown to be fuddlore years ago
no it wasnt. it had nothing to do with the handle length though and had to do with overall length.
Not the sword control in Germany. People literally got around the law by fitting the blades with knife handles. There are actual surviving examples of this, too. It would take me forever to find the source again, though.
Still, European society was divided into castes. If you weren't part of the nobility, you weren't allowed to possess any weaponry. This attitude remained in the Western World until the American Revolution, where the based Founding Fathers enacted laws that made everyone a noble.
Unfortunately, they thought of everyone to be a responsible noble when arming them. And now that they've turned unresponsible morons every time some Americunt unironically defends the second retardment the founding fathers are rolling in the grave. They wanted the best for America, not being obviously and demonstrably worse than Europe.
shut up moron
shut up moron
The messer claim is nonsense. Where laws existed, they revolved around blade lengths, or just social status directly.
The theory about it being about guild laws doesn't hold much water either btw. Most likely the construction was just a little more economical.I think there may also have been a bit of a cultural hangup about what a sword should be like (a weapon of war, heavy, double edged, capable of a thrust) while messer makers were free to explore the realm of light, single edged cutting swords for civilian use. There were similar knives of all kinds of lengths, with the shorters ones more popular than the sword-length ones.
Pic related btw. Look at the peasant on the left, holding a worn-down sword.
>Still, European society was divided into castes. If you weren't part of the nobility, you weren't allowed to possess any weaponry. This attitude remained in the Western World until the American Revolution, where the based Founding Fathers enacted laws that made everyone a noble.
Are you insane? Where are you getting this nonsense?
Did you get taught about the three estates in school?
That's a generalization of one fucking country and it's more 18th century. I can already tell you off the bat about the Assizes of England that stipulated you HAD to bear arms if you were of a certain class and what those weapons were. Imagine if your tax bracket dictated what firearms/explosives you had to possess. The Franks had a similar one centuries ago, while in early to high medieval Spain if you were of sufficient wealth in the cities you were a caballeros villainos and had to own a horse. If you did not buy a horse despite being that tax bracket they took enough of your property, bought you a horse and said
>Hey congrats here's your horse
Medieval is fucking 1000 years or so, highly varied across time and space. But quite a number of places mandated you possess arms. Others mandated you not possess arms.
>That's a generalization of one fucking country and it's more 18th century.
Wrong. There were three major casts in European nations throughout the Middle Ages and the Early Modern Period. Revolutions like the ones in America and France basically tore apart this system. The nobility were distinct from everyone else. They were allowed to participate in politics and own fancy weapons, but they had to deal with church authorities.
>If you weren't part of the nobility, you weren't allowed to possess any weaponry.
Fucking lol, it was the monopolization of military training that set the nobles apart, not weapons. Besides that, there is no "Europe" in this context, the mores and laws varied from principality to another
Nobility loved to parade around with their fancy swords.
A messer is a sword length "knife" where only one edge is sharpened, and possibly some of the reverse side of the tip. They began as long knives but we're lengthened over time as metallurgy improved and the peasants and burghers who used them got bolder.
Think of it like a final form of things like Bowie knives or other long fighting knives.
The Messer is a way for a knife maker to manufacture a Kind of sword without breaking guild Rules (only a sword Smith is allowed to make a sword )
Hence the different handle etc
in earlier days personal accountability was king. if you didn't like what your gay Neighbour was doing you just killed them or sabotage their reputation and took their shit. or married your daughter to them and stole it that way.
> so a lot of you may know that Medieval or Early Modern Germany tried sword control for those who didn't belong to nobility, and plenty of peasants wanted to own swords, so they made what were essentially swords, but with knife handles
I hate pop history so much. I’m not even going to bother explaining why you’re both wrong and a gay.
Weapons control in germanic tradition is way older than that. It comes from saxon/franc legal tradition in which only the free men were allowed to bear arms.
One reason traditional german style fraternities still practice a highly formalized type of duel is because academics were one of the groups that had the right to bear arms.
The proposition that they were already dodging legislation by working legal definitions is obviously lore. Because that is not how the legal system worked in feudalism.
>and plenty of peasants wanted to own swords, so they made what were essentially swords, but with knife handles.
Akahually no. Definition of prohibited blades were based on the blade length not design. So messers don't circumvent prohibition. Messers dodged trademark issues to allow knife makers enter sword making market.
has nobody here read the Bible? Weapons control is a crucial plot factor in the book of judges. The Israelites are forbidden from producing iron for fear of them going to war with the foreign ruling elites.
Why not try out some actual history. JSTOR is good and has options for independent researchers.
so how would a medieval person be able to protect himself from bandits on the road or if he is attacked at his farm? They would have swords, spears, maces and bows and he would have nothing?
Medieval people were MANDATED to own weapons and armour according to their wealth and landowning status. The only real regulations were in regard to being inside city limits, and not looking geared up for war (looks like a revolt) so on the road sword and buckler was the usual one for most of the middle ages, or the quarterstaff. The Canterbury Tales has the Yeoman carrying his longbow on the road too, but producing arrows was restricted heavily, so likely just had arrows for game/non "war" arrows.
A lot of restrictions on what you carried was based on social perception. Medieval people hated mallninjas too, and someone carrying a polearm that wasn't on watch duty could expect a heavy amount of scrutiny if not arrest to figure out if they were up to no good. Or you know, strangers in general were.