Do you really mean to tell me that these two rounds offer the same ballistic performance

Do you really mean to tell me that these two rounds offer the same ballistic performance

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    yeah

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      look how much bigger 45 is and how much longer the case is. Surely this round would have far more punch than a 9mm
      If the argument is that handgun rounds dont have meaningful ballistic differences, why not use something like 32? 25acp? 5.7? If the advantage of 9mm is capacity, there are rounds that can get even more capacity

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        because no one makes guns in .32 or .25, 5.7 is frick huge long in the grip and all of those calibers have marginal performance in comparison with 9mm

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Have you ever held or fired a 5.7 handgun? It's perfectly comfortable. A friend of mine own a USGI FiveSeven MK1, it's a remarkably comfortable handgun and it holds 20 rounds in the magazine. The only real disadvantages i can think of are a lot of muzzle flash, its pretty damned loud and difficult to suppress. It benefits from barrel length but surely a full sized 5.7 handgun would have comparable ballistics to 9mm

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It benefits from barrel length but surely a full sized 5.7 handgun would have comparable ballistics to 9mm

            Yeah, I'd think so, other than the exit wound and cavitation w/ a hollow point obviously. 5.7 looks like a pretty cool guy.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              i find it really confusing how much hate 5.7 gets, i think a lot of it is luddites latching on to 9mm because it's been the "Meta" for so long. The benefits of 5.7 are very apparent, though im sure that even better cartridges can be developed under less autistic circumstances

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >i think a lot of it is luddites latching on to 9mm because it's been the "Meta" for so long
                Probably. Or people are trying to banter and they don't know how. I got 9mm because I also drive a Honda Civic and my watch company's name is "Citizen". I'm not a greyman, I'm just generic. My point is to take it from me- the 5.7 is alright. You highlighted the only real weakness (suppression, because it's velocity reliant). I think it'll take off once we see more 5.7 in rancher style guns, pdw type things, and sport shooters because that velocity advantage is going to be apparent. Some company is going to come along and make super cheap steel case 5.7 that undercuts the market and that'll be that.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                i like 5.7 because its just really pleasant to shoot. All it needs to be for me to enjoy it is an accurate center-fire 22

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I seriously question it's barrier and post bone performance personally, also 5.7 was issued by a fair number of serious users and almost universally dropped(largely for 9mm) for anything but extremely niche uses, any commentary I can find from real world users was that it was hot trash out of a handgun and still bad out of an SMG. I get that the on paper stats might look appealing but who cares about that except as a predictor of real world performance

                https://i.imgur.com/ZZpYIGr.jpg

                This is the first time ive ever posted this thread. I saw a 45 and a 9mm on my desk and it finally occurred to me just how much larger 45. Also, 5.7 is significantly cheaper than it used to be. Last I've checked its almost the same price as 45acp now

                Yea but that's the size difference looking from the side and at the whole cartridge. Try looking at them from head, less of a difference. They're just hole punches.

                https://i.imgur.com/liSeWzN.png

                literally all ammo is expensive to ship anon, its brass, lead and explosives.

                >Doesn't know to filter to >6 or higher
                >He doesn't know about the predatory shipping practices used by some online dealers
                >Bro shipping ammos just expensive bro it's heavy bro
                Holy shit dude, just stop.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I dont bother filtering by shipping, i usually just select multiple offers of low CPR at the best available shipping rankings and compare prices at the cart. I have a gun shop near me that offers bulk 9mm and 5.56 at fairly acceptable prices, so i usually just shop there if nothing better is available after shipping.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >paying twice the price of 9mm for .22WMR +P
                yeah, it's only because people are stupid they're not switching to it from 9mm.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Have you ever held or fired a 5.7 handgun? It's perfectly comfortable.
            So is 9mm though when fired from a full size handgun. FiveSevens are big fricking guns which isn't what most of the market wants, the ballistics are meh out <10" barrels, and it's over twice the cost per round. But if you like it then sure it'll do fine, your call.
            >It benefits from barrel length but surely a full sized 5.7 handgun would have comparable ballistics to 9mm
            Probably close enough but nothing better either. Commercially available 9mm loads can go faster out of an equivalent barrel, though unlike 5.7 the benefits for longer barrels stops for 9mm after like, 7" or whatever it was.

            People can buy whatever they like and that's completely fine. Lots love big fricking revolvers for example, just because they like 'em, and that's based. They never express befuddlement though at why the rest of the world isn't knocking down the door to EDC 44mag, though know what they've got. What's irritating is newguns spreadsheet gays trying to pretend some new memeround is so much better and the rest of the planet is stupid for not throwing everything old in the trash and consoooming.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              the difference between 5.7 and 9mm recoil isnt even close. 5.7 is extremely pleasant to shoot, its comparable to 22lr recoil. Your hand practically doesnt even move off target. The closest youll ever get to that with 9mm is a full sized steel frame with a comp

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I'm sorry anon I don't take estrogen so I've never had a >1.5lb regular handgun that I have found unpleasant to shoot due to recoil, but like I said everyone has their own circumstances and I respect your personal choices.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Ballistics? No. There are clearly measurable differences in velocity, mass, etc. Terminal effectiveness with modern ammunition? Yeah.

        >If the advantage of 9mm is capacity, there are rounds that can get even more capacity
        There are. That's the idea of .30 Super Carry. But it's not like any round works, you can't just say why not carry 2mm pinfire or someshit, there's a minimum amount of penetration needed for adequate performance. More than that doesn't really matter unless you're talking a LOT more, as in the case of a rifle. There's no argument here, it's fricking statistics. We have the data.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >There's no argument here, it's fricking statistics. We have the data.
          minmaxing autists deserve the rope

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            the irony is the statistics agree with you, because the fact is that pretty much all major pistol cartridges perform the same in real-world shootings. People can argue about muh 9mm vs. .45 AARP or .40 vs. 10mm all day long but in the end they're all the same.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Except for the .357 magnum which is the best cartridge you can get.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          lmao only on /k/ will you find someone brain damaged enough to treat Marshall and Sanow as a source of anything but make believe bullshit.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            He's been told repeatedly, just ignore him

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >posting this image and thread yet again
        ffs

        >why not use something like 32? 25acp? 5.7?
        There is a lower limit if you're worried about bears not just humans, plus a lot of people like to shoot for sport and have something reach farther.

        More practically, 9mm starts at 22cpr and has an endless variety of guns of all types from ultracompact to PCCs available for it, from the broadest of broad market to ultra niche shit. Whereas the rounds you describe are massively more expensive with massively fewer gun options.

        Not that you own any guns or you'd know this spreadsheet shitskin.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          This is the first time ive ever posted this thread. I saw a 45 and a 9mm on my desk and it finally occurred to me just how much larger 45. Also, 5.7 is significantly cheaper than it used to be. Last I've checked its almost the same price as 45acp now

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >This is the first time ive ever posted this thread.
            Liar. Same fricking image from the same fricking shit for years:
            >https://writeontheright.blogspot.com/2018/11/45-acp-vs-9mm-debate-rages-on.html
            >Also, 5.7 is significantly cheaper than it used to be. Last I've checked its almost the same price as 45acp now
            Who the frick do you think you're fooling anon when everyone on /k/ knows ammoseek and other comparison sites? 5.7 is 51.7 fricking cpr right now, 45 is 39cpr. "Almost the same price" hurr.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Anon, i don't mean to alarm you, but when you search for images on google, it pulls images off of indexed websites. The image i posted came from the site you linked because that image appears on a google search. I chose that specific image because its the clearest example i could find that compared two brass case FMJ cartridges

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Verification not required

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >the 5.7 shill who totally definitely shoots it all the time posts ammoseek without filtering for shipping
                ahahahahahaha holy shit

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                literally all ammo is expensive to ship anon, its brass, lead and explosives.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Anon you have completely exposed yourself, you can stop digging. We know you just learned about ammoseek for the very first time in this thread and went there having never used it before. We know you didn't just go down the sidebar and filter for SH >8 like you should. You're not convincing anyone on something you don't use.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                post your guns, i already posted mine

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's not that they're exactly the same, it's that they're close enough and with 9mm you get more rounds in the magazine which at this level is objectively more useful than energy per round

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        increasing velocity is twice as good as increasing mass

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >its not about the size of the boat
      >its the motion of the ocean
      cope much?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The best reply to that is “but no one crosses the ocean in a rowboat”

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Step aside short kings. Girls want a real caliber these days.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You are cute, like small child

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    yup

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >can't choose a caliber?
    >can't choose a rifle?
    >lucky for you it is yet another gun channel/online magazine that does not believe in objectivity
    >even after laying out the objective differences
    >just pick whatever is "right" for you!

    I'm convinced all gun youtubers and half the gun community at large are secretly homosexuals and philosophical subjectivists.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I mean it's true the decision is yours and some guntuber can't tell you what caliber to get, but yeah, the guntuber should give you as many pros and cons of whatever it is so that
      >you be the judge
      but yeah the online "gun community" is super gay. Pretty much everything is just a circle jerk or counter circle jerk to signal to each other their cool, just like teenage girls.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    9mm to me feels like a compromise, a middle ground between high capacity and ballistics. It might be the most practical option, but i think it's far from the best.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    To be honest if one of thems standing in front of another I’m pretty sure it’s gonna get both. Also that 500 is a 5 shot.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >500 is a 5 shot.
      So 4 for the bear and 1 for yourself when he starts mauling your ass?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        If you can’t take a bear down with 5 shots of 500 then you are doing something incredibly wrong.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Also on a side note a big bore revolver is a 5 shot…

        every production 500 magnum is a 5 shot..

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Hes either moronic or baiting, dont expect coherent remarks.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >doesn't carry second revolver for 11 exceptional residents of the city
    ngmi

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Do you really mean to tell me that these two rounds offer wildly different ballistic performance while between 9mm and .45 is negligible?

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    9mm: 35,000psi
    45 ACP: 21,000psi
    go figure

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It makes me wonder if theres a reason people dont just load 45 to the same pressures as 9mm. Is that what 45 super is?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >45 super
        It has 28000 psi, still not a match.
        .460 rowland at 40k psi more close.

        It clearly shows how much of a volume is wasted in .45ACP.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Honestly a damned shame. Being subsonic by default is cool but 45 isnt even a particularly good round to suppress, its so massive that loads of gas vent straight out of the bore of a suppressor. How does 10mm compare to the two? The more i think about it the more i think 10mm might be what i WANT 45 to be

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          45 super is designed to run in modern 45 ACP guns with no mods because it's implicit that the barrel's steel is much better than guns from a century ago. It's just a tougher case.
          .460 Rowland is a whole different caliber essentially, you can't chamber it in a 45 ACP (and that's a good thing).

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            .460 is a magnum to .45ACP being special needs cartridge.
            It has same dimensions , except for a case being single millimeter longer for safety of an user
            Also I was talking about pressures. .460 is what you could get from .45 cartridge if you loaded to 9mm level pressures.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >.460 is what you get when you have 45 reach 9mm pressures
              Meanwhile in the real world
              >.460 creeps right behind .44 fricking magnum

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >.44 magnum
                36,000 psi (250 MPa)
                I really don't see a contradiction with the real world here.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            .460 rowland is like 5.56 and .223
            You can get your gun converted to shoot. 460 rowland and now with a simple spring change you can feed ALL .45 loads from ACP, to super, to SOCOM loadings.

            But .45 also has something 9mm does not have. Inherit subsonic characteristics. You need special 9mm loads to fully use a suppressor but .45 not the case and you have more expansion than 9

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I have a 45 suppressor and despite being subsonics, the results are underwhelming. Because of the large bore 45 is not a particularly well suited round for suppressors. Remember, suppressors work by inducing back pressure and turbulence on escaping gasses, the larger the bore of a suppressor the more gas will simply escape out of the bore. You'd need a longer suppressor to reach the same effectiveness out of a 45 as a subsonic 9mm, which starts to defeat the purpose of a handgun, compared to something like a PCC

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              you're confusing .460 Rowland with 45 Super.
              .460 Rowland requires a conversion kit that is usually a barrel and a recoil spring

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              subsonic 9mm is both quieter and cheaper than normal .45. the only reason to use it over 9mm would be to hunt something larger than a coyote and not shell out .300 blk subsonic money

              you're confusing .460 Rowland with 45 Super.
              .460 Rowland requires a conversion kit that is usually a barrel and a recoil spring

              you can still fire .45 in a .460 barrel, you just need to check for blown primers every now and then. Just like firing .40 in a 10mm, but iirc the case dimensions are actually closer.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >you can't chamber it in a 45 ACP (and that's a good thing).
            Why is this a good thing?

            .460 rowland is like 5.56 and .223
            You can get your gun converted to shoot. 460 rowland and now with a simple spring change you can feed ALL .45 loads from ACP, to super, to SOCOM loadings.

            But .45 also has something 9mm does not have. Inherit subsonic characteristics. You need special 9mm loads to fully use a suppressor but .45 not the case and you have more expansion than 9

            >You can get your gun converted to shoot. 460 rowland and now with a simple spring change you can feed ALL .45 loads from ACP, to super, to SOCOM loadings.
            You can shoot "rowland pressures" in an ACP chamber just fine, and since you're loading your own you'll actually be able to enjoy a whole day of shooting those hot loads instead of reserving it for a novelty.

            does the 2mm really matter though

            No it's like 460 Rowland, they only do it so it's a proprietary cartridge

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        yeah 45 super is that, but then you have too much recoil and basically a round that is difficult to handle and arguably too powerful for its intended purpose.
        45 ACP is in the sweet spot in terms of kinetic energy, 9mm can be equal but only with the best loads.
        In general smaller rounds tend to have less recoil but that also depends a lot on the gun design.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          In my experience, cartridge weight has a much larger influence on recoil then pressure or velocity. 5.7 has almost zero recoil despite having very high pressures and velocities, because its such a miniscule projectile. I bet that you could make a really good handgun cartridge by necking down a 9mm and offering supersonic and subsonic loadings. Small projectile means (with supers) minimal recoil and the smaller diameter means better performance out of a suppressor. Is that basically just what 7.62x25 tok is?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That was 7.65 Parabellum. A neat round but got out of fashion.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            They're a thing, they don't tend to be popular though. .22 TCM is a good semi recent example

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              interesting, ive heard a few people mention 22tcm and always just assumed it was some rimfire magnum cartridge, i should have looked into it sooner

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              After looking more into it, I’m less interested. The advantage that 5.7 presents to me most is capacity, and you seemingly have the same exact case diameter as 9mm with 22tcm. There’s also just an absolutely pitiful amount of guns chambered for 22tcm

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That's the thing about a necked down cartridge though anon, they're going to have the same capacity as a 9mm, a necked down cartridge is where you start with a cartridge and then NECK IT DOWN to use a smaller diameter projectile

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Well yeah, duh, but five seven still has a smaller case diameter than 9mm. I was under the impression 22tcm shared the same case diameter as 5.7, but it’s a lot bigger

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >In my experience, cartridge weight has a much larger influence on recoil then pressure or velocity
            What matter of fuddlore meme shit is this? "Recoil" is just conservation of momentum, P=mv. Mass of bullet and gas flows out barrel, equal and opposite force is experienced by the gun and then the shooter. That's it. Cartridge weight has no fricking influence on recoil you absolute homosexual.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I want you to try something anon
              lay down on your floor and push your legs against a beach ball, and see how much it pushes you back
              Now try the same thing, but with an 8000 pound boulder, and see how much it pushes you back

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I want ChatGPT to leave.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That's just the way i write anon, sorry. I talk to a lot of old people

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous
              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                this is the most moronic explanation for how chamber pressure in firearms functions
                i really have no words for how dumb you are
                i'm actually curious to know more about you now, i'm imagining a neanderthal savant who somehow made it's way onto a computing device and knows how to type, but that's it

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              after re-reading this, i see you're just being pedantic. I said cartridge weight, but i meant to say projectile weight. Obviously the weight of the actual cartridge doesn't matter except to make the gun heavier to reduce recoil. the PROJECTILE weight has a great influence on recoil. I think this is because the difference in velocity between most handgun cartridges is generally less than the difference in mass. a 5.7 out of a full sized handgun isnt traveling all that much faster than a 9mm, but the difference in mass is very significant.
              Youre talking about a difference between ~2150fps (40gr 5.7 out of a ~5" barrel) and ~1280fps (115gr 9mm out of a ~5" barrel)
              In this case, 5.7 is traveling 1.7x faster but is 2.9x lighter. I guess in reality, the physics dictates that velocity and mass have an equal part in felt recoil, but generally in practice the difference in mass between these cartridges is far greater than the different in weight. The numbers here indicate that felt recoil from 40gr 5.7 would be about 60% that of 9mm, almost half

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              P=mv
              right.
              But hou have to consider this: at the same energy the lighter round has less momentum:
              E=mv2
              it increases quadratically with speed, while momentum increases linearly.
              So a lighter round with the same kinetic energy has less momentum.
              example:
              E=400J round1: 400m/s round2: 250m/s
              mass R1: 400/(4002) = 0.0025kg = 2.5g (38.59gr)
              momentumR1: 0.0025*400 = 1 Kg*m/s
              massR2: 400/(2502) = 0.0064kg = 6.4g (98.78gr)
              momentumR2: 0.0064*400 = 2.56 Kg*m/s
              Lighter and faster round will have less momentum and equal energy

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    When the first one gets his head blasted to pieces, the others will scatter like roaches. They want victims, not opponents.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't know if I'm just cynical, and believe most people are actually moronic; but how is this not answered with the simple physics equation F=ma? Yeah, there's more mass behind a .45, but 9mm moves an average of 400 more ft/s.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      f=ma isn't really applicable because a bullet deforms and humans are essentially fluid, calculating acceleration of an impact would be impossible. bullets can pass through, taking energy with it. The best we have is calculating muzzle energy, or kinetic energy, or just how much energy the bullet can potentially pass to to a human medium. KE=1/2MxV2.
      you'll notice the velocity of the bullet affects energy more than the mass, though mass between bullets varies a lot and can make a massive difference. (a .44 out of a 2" barrel has similar energy to a .22 out of an 18" barrel.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        V^2*

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          1/2(mvv)
          If I recall correctly, scallars are written in lowercase.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I just didn't know PrepHole doesn't allow exponential characters, (VV) is annoying but correct notation.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Nah, the best you can do is actually drag, as you mentioned the resistance of the target plays a critical role in bottle necking the energy deposited. The velocity/frontal area of the projectile are critical factors in this as well. Drag calculations can actually predict the real amounts of energy applied to the target and the rate at which it is deposited but it gets pretty complicated if you're trying to account for varying densities of tissues or calculating the drag over the whole interaction as opposed to a moment by moment basis. Still the most useful option though. The real X factor is a lack of study on the exact levels of energy required for meaningful TSC generation in varying tissues, afaik no such research has been performed, or at least publicly admitted to. There also seems to be a relationship between the actual method of interaction of the projectile with the tissue in question effecting said limits for meaningful cavitation. Multiple smaller projectiles or fragments seem to behave differently than singular projectiles and I suspect larger singular projectiles may also have an effect beyond the increase in drag might indicate but that's purely anecdotal.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          on another note does a bullet with a high rotational energy transfer well into targets? like I wouldn't wanna touch a bullet rotating 300k rpm if it was just standing still. is there a huge difference between just enough to stabilize the bullet, and just enough to keep the bullet from exploding on impact? I feel like rotational energy is always neglected when talking caliber wars, muzzle energy, or god forbid "stopping power"

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            it basically doesn't matter. The difference between density of air and flesh is far greater than the difference between different bullet spins.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Rotational kinetic energy is negligible compared to translational kinetic energy.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            In terms of KE it is not a meaningful addition. However it can be very meaningful in terms of projectile behavior which can effect overall energy transfer and wounding in general. For an extreme example of this consider way over spun bullets, they can literally tear themselves apart into a cloud of fragments when they leave the barrel. While the rate of rotation is fairly meaningless when considered relative to the targets frame of reference(due to the bullets forward speed and how quickly everything happens) it can be very important to the bullet. Higher rotational energy can effect the degree of expansion of a projectile(particularly JSPs) or the degree and pattern of fragmentation(mostly how far they travel outwards from the primary wound path). So, yea, rotation can matter in the grand scheme of things but its pretty poorly understood/implemented and it isnt additional projectile energy that does the work.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Do you really mean to tell me that these two rounds offer the same ballistic performance
    Pretty much, yeah.
    What the 9mm lacks in mass, it compensates with velocity.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    they'll both kill you, so yeah

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      So will something smaller than 9mm, so why 9mm? This black and white idea that 'handgun ballistics dont matter, capacity is king' is a meme

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You're dumb. The fact that calibers weaker than 9mm are demonstrably worse at stopping an attacker does not prove that calibers larger than 9mm will work meaningfully better. You have to prove that they are.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Is it not self evident? It ultimately comes down to joules, no? The amount of energy imparted on the target clearly should influence the amount of damage done to the body

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It ultimately comes down to joules, no?
            not really

            what it really comes down to is 2 things
            1) what structures you damage directly, in which case a marginally larger hole from a .45 makes no real difference vs a 9mm
            2) what structures you damage indirectly via the explosive expansion of tissue and the tearing that occurs. NONE of the typical handgun cartridges are energetic enough to take advantage of this effect. you need to step up to a rifle to see this

            so, since the difference between any single 9mm bullet and any single .45acp bullet is practically 0, what it comes down in the real world is other considerations

            the most important of which is recoil and how fast you can put multiple shots in the target. 9mm has less recoil, so everything else being equal, you can put the second 9mm into the target faster than you can the 2nd .45acp.
            there are other considerations too, but less important ones
            like, for instance, that you can carry more 9mms than .45acps, everything else being equal
            or that 9mm is much cheaper to shoot than .45
            or that there's loads more handguns for 9mm than .45

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No it isn't. No it doesn't. Reality has no need to conform to your preconceptions. I repeat, you are dumb, and by your usage of joules instead of ftlbs I suspect you may even be European. You say these things like this isn't a widely studied and debated topic and you aren't arguing a long ago disproven position. Prove your claims.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        5.7 is expensive and rimfires are rimfires, 9mm just werks

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      ?t=71

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    no, 9mm is superior

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    9mm wins when added to a .40 S&W case. because it turns it into a magnum like round with less recoil, and more muzzle report.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    ONE HELPED US WIN TWO WORLD WARS AND ONE IS USED BY SISSIES WHO WANT TO BE CHRIS KYLE WITH A PISTOL. TAKE FROM THAT WHAT YOU WILL SONNIE

    Sent using Tapatalk

    • 1 month ago
      John smith

      YOU TELL EM, THESE KIDS THESE DAYS DONT KNOW HOW TO DO NOTHING, COMPLAINING ABOUT RENT AND SUCH. BY 18 I HAD PAID FOR MY COLLEGE AND BOUGHT A HOUSE WORKING PART TIME AT MCDONALDS! LAZY MILLENIALS

      Sent from my iPhone

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >ballistic
    which kind of ballistics?

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Oh yeah?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      staged photo
      remingtons were dogshit so they would never carry two of them

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    ?t=71

    9mm vs 45 video
    9mm pierces through shit and 45 drops all its energy into things

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >using meme bullets
      great comparison between 9mm and 45

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Just say if you are too mentally fragile to admit wrong next time instead of attempting to misdirect kek
        Its not a good look.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/DXHOhN3.png

          is right, compared to the size of the human torso the difference between 9mm and 45 ACP is marginal. Weirdly enough with normal HPs they both penetrated about the same ¯_(ツ)_/¯

          ?si=gQ4G_DHFZEmfjMaZ&t=514

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            45 star pattern is definitely 30% longer kek

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              and 30% larger than .355" is .4615"
              way to totally miss the point like a moron.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Dude...

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Ballistics gel does not perform like flesh. May as well jerk off over shooting clay

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Ah, I guess you're right. Honestly I don't have a lot of experience with pistol calibers. I generally only shoot rifle and shotgun. I was just surprised.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Muscle is pretty tough, unless you hit something really soft like lung tissue your permanent wound cavity is generally about as big as the diameter of the bullet, post expansion if its a hollowpoint. After that if you didnt hit CNS its a timer on their blood pressure or will to fight. The will to fight is unknown, blood pressure generally is.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                nta, but for reference ballistics gel is calibrated to a .177 bb penetrating 3" which of course it wouldn't do on a human, even at point blank range.

                This is a good video about it. The important thing about ballistics gel is that it's a consistent medium to measure penetration of rounds. Basically anything that penetrates within the FBI specs is gonna be adequate for a pistols

                there's also that study of real shootings that showed that between .380 and .45 they all performed the same.

                https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    is there a difference between 9x19 vs 9x21

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      2mm?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        does the 2mm really matter though

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Depends. On 357 and 454 it keeps you from putting it in where a 38 or 45lc should only fit.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You can buy 9x21 in countries where 9x19 is banned.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        yeah thats the main thing i heard about it
        what a dumb rule

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          it's for places where the corrupt military inevitably ends up selling off all their service ammo on the black market

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      9x21 has more foreskin, which is a bit weird, considering it was made by israelites.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    yes. lukewarm pressure does that for you.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Get two jugs, poke a hole in one and a slightly larger hole in another.

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