There are no practical use cases for intermediate cartridges. Even in short ranges a 30 caliber rifle will perform better than an intermediate cartridge. The 30 cal can be used anywhere from 0-600 yards with extreme precision while the intermediate cartridges can maybe get to 200 yards while maintaining some level of precision. >t. well-read sniper literature autist
Yes, you can have a super light rifle which doesn't have harsh recoil (very lightweight .308s are NOT nice shoot, for instance), and there's plenty of game suitable for .223 and 7.62x39mm, in addition to low cost.
That's still plenty of range, and something like 6.5mm Grendel or .300BLK will work perfectly fine for deer and what not.
>That's still plenty of range, and something like 6.5mm Grendel or .300BLK will work perfectly fine for deer and what not.
He asked if intermediate bolt rifles make sense and the answer is that they do not. A small bullet like that loses a lot of energy over distance, with velocity being its main advantage, which is also loses at distance.
300aac doesnt have the range you think it does, its underpowered 7.62x39. Its designed for suppressor use and as such has sub-sonic speeds. 6.5CM is OK, but with a small projectile it will be less resistant to wind drift.
Tldr, bolt guns are precision weapons in the current year, if you want an intermediate caliber then get an AR, if you want a bolt gun then it only makes sense to get a full size caliber.
Deny this all you want but I am right.
>A small bullet like that loses a lot of energy over distance, with velocity being its main advantage, which is also loses at distance.
If I'm shooting under 180yds I fail to see the problem.
>300aac doesnt have the range you think it does, its underpowered 7.62x39. Its designed for suppressor use and as such has sub-sonic speeds.
I was more thinking supersonic loads, but subsonic ones would be fine at under 100yds.
>6.5CM is OK, but with a small projectile it will be less resistant to wind drift.
I said 6.5mm Grendel, not Creedmoor. It has a flatter trajectory than 7.62x39mm and heavier projectile than 5.56mm, and once again performs very well at shorter ranges.
>Tldr, bolt guns are precision weapons in the current year, if you want an intermediate caliber then get an AR, if you want a bolt gun then it only makes sense to get a full size caliber.
Meanwhile, you're not putting together an AR15 which weighs 4.5lbs loaded without looking at something ridiculously skeletonized, including the carrier.
>I said 6.5mm Grendel
Yes I know, thats why I said 6.5 CM because your grendel shit is a literal who caliber whereas 6.5CM is all the rage. Getting a piece of shit intermediate caliber in a bolt gun is pure hinderance. Its ONLY saving grace (intermediate cartridges) was being able to fire the in rapid succession, hence why bolt guns were made for 30 caliber ammunition. If you want a weak ass toy to shoot cans with then by all means do it, but at least save yourself some money and get a 22.
Bolt guns come in full power and trainer (22.) varieties, dont be one of those degenerate fricks that creates a mutt abomination.
Wow, you sure seem really angry, maybe you should enhance your calm. Again, I'm not shooting elk at 400yds, so I don't really care about performance for ranges I don't hunt at, and I enjoy a gun that weighs nothing with little recoil, with enough power to be suitable.
I don't find 6.5mm Sneedmor necessary.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Im not angry though, just a precision rifle purist.
This is the most moronic post I've read in a while >hence why bolt guns were made for 30 caliber ammunition
What the frick are you on about.
I was talking about bullets of near equal weight. A 140gr 6.5mm bullet shits all over a 150gr 30cal, but a 178gr 30cal will catch up to it simply due to its massive inertia like you said. You're still a gay though.
Even a 178gr .308 ELD-M isn't catching up to a 140gr 6.5 ELD-M, let alone a 147gr
Holy frick you tactitards are annoying. Not every gun needs to be an epic combat recce rifle for le boog whatever. The reasons that intermediate calibers are popular are >reduced ammo cost >reduced recoil >specialized purpose, such as sub 600 yard precision or varmint hunting
And this Black person is the dumbest gorilla I've ever seen. The whole point of 6.5CM, which isn't an intermediate anyway mind you, is to shoot a high BC projectile out of a short action rifle. High BC means it's affected LESS by wind drift than a big fat .30 caliber projectile.
no pal, high bc is less affected by wing drift because of higher average speed and so lower time of flight over medium and long distances.
on same time of flight basis, big fat is more resistant on drift cuz 1) inertia, same as sectional density but in lateral way 2) low lenght/caliber ratio require less spin to stabilize, magnus effect generated by transversal wind on a spinning thing can affect up and down placement of bullet, besides the left right placement of the wind blowing the bullet away.
I was talking about bullets of near equal weight. A 140gr 6.5mm bullet shits all over a 150gr 30cal, but a 178gr 30cal will catch up to it simply due to its massive inertia like you said. You're still a gay though.
Is it though? You make it smaller so you can carry more of it but in doing so make it less lethal which means you need to shoot up to 3x more to kill the same person which results in it costing at least as much as just carrying and shooting 308 which would kill that person in 1 shot.
Just because you have a bucket of 22. doesnt mean it will kill anyone.
Bring the right tool for the job, we aint fightin varmints!
>you need to shoot up to 3x more to kill the same person
Dude, you show me someone who walked off a 5.56 to the head or the heart.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well chuck taylor got drilled by an ak 3 times at point blank and he lived, and that bullet is far bigger.
Are you implying that you are a good enough shot to reliably hit someone center mass? No? Then 308 would do a far better job of gibbing someone and also blowing their heart out.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Most 7.62x39 rounds suck terminally compared to what's available in .223/5.56
2 years ago
Anonymous
An FN FAL would have ended our heros adventure is the charlie had one.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Are you implying that you are a good enough shot to reliably hit someone center mass
What's the range?
I'm not a particularly great shot but making reliable center mass hits with a rifle isn't a particularly demanding shot at the sort of ranges that are going to be typical for the sort of defensive shooting scenarios I'm likely to find myself in.
I'll take the bait: any Black person you shoot and kill with .308 would have been basically killed just as hard with .223, barring maybe an engagement past 300yds or something, in which case a .223 would still be a really fricking serious wound if a hit from .308 at that part of the body would have killed them in seconds.
Mind that people have died in a real hurry from a single center mass hit from .45, 9mm, or even .32, in some instances, and both .223 and .308 have a lot more energy than all of those past practical pistol ranges.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>basically killed just as hard
No, you are wrong. The must be killed the hardest.
>How are logistics for 308 any different from logistics for 14.5x114 besides a difference in mass?
We should equip soldiers with the physically largest cartridges possible because they're effective out to longer ranges and mass doesn't matter.
This is why no one should take book worms seriously for anything other than as autists who lack the experience to know things first hand, and who don't have the ability of abstract thinking and rely on whatever knowledge first reaches them to hold onto as the "truth". In the Muhreenes we shot at man sized targets 500 yards away with iron sights using M855 62 grain green tip. And this Black person is saying 200 yards is the max effective range?
Probably not alone as some sort of ghetto sniper, he likely means that he and his squad engaged enemies together at that distance, in which case the volume of aimed fire would add up and get it done.
No what he means is they shot man size targets at 500 yards on a range. Good visibility, known distance.
In practice just estimating distance correctly using only your eyes requires loads of practice. And at those ranges being 20% off in your estimate means missing.
Still perfectly doable though, I can't but I know people who can
You’re full of shit, a 14.5 inch M4 is point accurate up to 500 meters. The 5.56 was specifically designed to keep its velocity beyond average engagement distances, while still being lighter than full sized 7.62. Of course the full sized cartridge isn’t obsolete, DMRs and GMPGs exist for a reason, but as far as for the average fighter 5.56 is pretty damn sufficient for man to man fighting.
aside from plinking >big game
too weak >medium game at long range
full power bolt like 308/3006 is better >medium game at close range
full power is still better, as is shotgun, or lever action >varminting
good, but might as well use semi auto unless you are expecting to walk a long ways >wildlife defense
revolver, shotgun, or lever
If you wanted to do precision shooting on a budget or with added ballistic challenge, it makes the most sense. The most obvious use case is the one that most of /k/ is too dumb to understand: because it's all you have, or because it's "good enough" and you already have that cartridge stacked to the ceiling. If you want to shoot deer, and you already got an AK, you have tons of practice ammo for a CZ 527, which is not ideal but absolutely good enough.
>better
That word doesn't matter. A full power cartridge has more energy at range, but so does a magnum. Why aren't you shooting whitetails under 200 yards with a .338 lapua magnum?
All that matters is if the cartridge is enough. 7.62x39, .223 Remmington, .30 Carbine, and everything else can be perfectly fine for taking game. If the cartridge does what you need it to, then it's perfectly fine. Who gives a frick if you have more energy at 300 yards when you live in the woods and the only sight line more than 50 yards is a road? The ability of a cartridge to make a quartering shot on a bull moose from 350 yards with 80 yards of elevation are irrelevant for someone who doesn't see those.
This guy gets it. The people having pissing contests about calibers don't actually use their guns, or worse, don't own any. Good enough is a real concept.
This is why I hunt with a 357 lever gat. In many years of hunting I never took or had a shot at anything beyond 50 or so yards give or take bc I hunt eastern woods. Always get my deer and it's super effective. Also a lot less meat damage hardly anything is bloodshot.
i do it in rural mississippi. i got some old people a third of a mile down the road in both directions. they dont care about a few rounds of 7.62 in the middle of the night but if i was shooting a .308 or something or blasting with an ar15 they probably would
- hunting larger animals like deer at close range (under 200m)
- having acces to intermediate ammo in cucked countries. Intermediate is very fun to shoot, cheap and a bolt action intermediate rifle makes a good training gun if you do it for fun.
>having acces to intermediate ammo in cucked countries. Intermediate is very fun to shoot, cheap and a bolt action intermediate rifle makes a good training gun if you do it for fun
In Frogland we do shoot foxes and river rats with 222 remington as 223 is far more restricted.
>Lots of Europeans hunt grouse and similar game birds with .222 and .223 bolties
Are you moronic? We hunt them with birdshot or rimfire .22's. A .222 or .223 would completely blow them apart.
I find it hard to believe that a .308 won't blow them apart. What distance do you shoot them at? Can't be more than 100-200 metres. At that distance a .308 is still going 750 m/s. Whenever a big, fast bullet hits a delicate target, it's bound to go boom. Here we just snack up to them and whack them with 3,5 mm birdshot. Or use a .22 mag.
moron. that big bullet is not going to disintegrate hitting a small mostly hollow weightless bird. Bullets must hit a medium that has enough resistance to get them to deliver energy.
Ok Black person, then why do pumpkins have tennis ball size exit holes when you shoot them with .308 FMJs? Fact is, shooting small shit with full power rifle cartridges is going to yield totally RNG results. Black person tier attitude to think one rifle can do it all. Actual hunters have different rifles for different classes of game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No one said one rifle can do it all, imbecile. Just that those bigger calibers are still perfectly capable of hunting small game if you know what you're doing. As shown to you in a video you've purposely ignored because you're a low I.Q. moron with cognitive dissonance.
I find it hard to believe that a .308 won't blow them apart. What distance do you shoot them at? Can't be more than 100-200 metres. At that distance a .308 is still going 750 m/s. Whenever a big, fast bullet hits a delicate target, it's bound to go boom. Here we just snack up to them and whack them with 3,5 mm birdshot. Or use a .22 mag.
Lol i have shot hundreds of birds with 30.06, not one has exploded. 308. Works great for birds
I think a scout rifle build in 7.62x39, .300 blackout or 6.5 grendel could be quite interesting for the lower recoil. Since you're not going to be shooting at long range anyway the intermediate rounds might be an interesting alternative to full size rifle rounds
Intermediate ammo tends to be significantly cheaper than big boy bullets, so you can practice more with your gun.
They're lightweight and conveniently sized.
Good accuracy on a budget.
Does fine for hunting medium sized game, and I imagine it'll shoot a person pretty good too, if you have to.
If you live basically anywhere in the world other than the US, they make perfect sense for a number of applications.
The 600 series already has a massive recall because they're unsafe. CZ really fricked up, should've just kept the 527 instead of trying to fix what wasn't broken by designing a new broken gun.
Hmmm, sounds like they fricked up the modular barrels. So you can install it improperly but still fire the gun which doesn't sound good.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yup, dumb ideas for features, poor execution, dangerous product, CZ screwed themselves. And the fact that they completely discontinued the 500 series rifles ontop of it all, so now potential consumers can't even get a CZ rifle at all and have to settle for another brand.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The issue was that the screws could come loose and lead to headspace issues with repeated firing. It wasn't a design flaw so much as it was an issue with people not torquing properly or using loctite. Anyone who wasn't stupid wouldn't have run into an issue, but the problem is that some fraction of people are both stupid and litigious. Their "fix" is that they just solder the screws in place.
Hunting, intermediate calibers allow for lighter rifles and are still more than enough to kill deer/hogs. Plinking, ammo is cheaper so you can afford more range time. If you reload, it uses less powder and if it's lower pressure the brass lasts through a bunch of reloads.
>recently find out about the CZ 527 after looking for a 7.62x39 bolt action.
I have a frickload of 7.62x39, and three other rifles chambered in the caliber but is really THAT bad? Should I really just stick to 8mm for hunting?
Is that including heavy brush of the South? As far as I know 7.62x39 is better due to it's reduced deviation in thick brush within 200 yards. I'd like to express I'm not arguing I'm just looking for outside perspective.
7.62 X 39 is slower velocity so it loses elevation and accuracy faster than 5.56. It does punch through brush better but if you're worried about punching through brush and the like why not hop up to a bigger round like 30-06.
[...] >30-06
Boomers, baka
30-06 is great man. It'll kill anything in North America.
From everything I've seen, brush busting doesn't really work and fricks up the paths of any bullet so I would try and avoid it completely no matter what you're shooting.
Brush busting is for all practical purposes a myth. I'm sure some fringe cases may be "somewhat" relevant but if your bullet hits something before it's target it's going wild.
A 122mm howitzer will be significantly deflected by a 1mm piece of sheet metal.
It's true, a myth on par with fo five stoopahn powah
2 years ago
Anonymous
It literally isn't a myth.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>for all practical purposes
It is based on a true phenomenon however it's effects cannot be utilized to any significant advantage in your average rifle.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it's effects cannot be utilized to any significant advantage in your average rifle
just use heavier round nosed or flatnosed projectiles instead of lighter spitzers
the change in bullet shape alone can help a ton
2 years ago
Anonymous
This I'll give you. The shape of the projectile is much much more crucial than the external ballistics.
You'll have shorter range and less power, but it'll kill a deer at closer distances just fine.
If what you've got is a bunch of shitty steelcase though, you're not looking at the greatest groups with a bolt-action, so it's more just for plinking with that stuff. If you use nice hunting ammo and match ammo, maybe load your own, then you can get quite nice groups.
My typical engagements is sub 200 yards being in the South. I'd however like to engage with some buddies in tag sport elsewhere (Primarily in the Rockies/West of the Rockies) so I'd imagine I'd have long vistas to aim from. My main question being, is 7.62x39 effective outside of heavily forested environments or am I better just using my 8mm?
I think everyone should have four target guns
high end 30 cal air rifle
semi auto 22lr
bolt action 223
bolt action 30-06
this keeps you very happy at almost every range almost every person has acesss to
30-100 yards? air gun
100-200 yards? 22lr
200-400 yards? 223
400-800 yards? 30-06
I'd say, you want a .22 for small game and plinking, and I'd probably say a semi auto but the action isn't that important.
A 5.56 with an LPVO for deer and smaller game at closer range and honestly for 5.56 you might as well get a semi auto like an AR or Mini 14 so long as the barrel is 16 inches or longer.
A bolt action 30-06 with a higher magnification scope for long range and big critters.
And a 12 gauge shotgun for birds and anything else at close range.
There are places for all sorts of guns but those four plus a 9mm pistol cover pretty much everything.
tbh if we’re talking about need, not a well rounded sporting collection, unironically a single shot break action 12 gauge solves 99.99% of problems, especially one with threaded choke tubes
i was just referring to a target shooting collection though, not an overall sporting collection.
I'd say, you want a .22 for small game and plinking, and I'd probably say a semi auto but the action isn't that important.
A 5.56 with an LPVO for deer and smaller game at closer range and honestly for 5.56 you might as well get a semi auto like an AR or Mini 14 so long as the barrel is 16 inches or longer.
A bolt action 30-06 with a higher magnification scope for long range and big critters.
And a 12 gauge shotgun for birds and anything else at close range.
There are places for all sorts of guns but those four plus a 9mm pistol cover pretty much everything.
>can fit
It’s not a matter of fitting. It’s a matter of twist rate. 308 and 30-06 have different barrels.
2 years ago
Anonymous
they sell 30 cal barrels with every twist rate under the sun, and 30-06 can fit bigger longer bullets
isn’t this a image board for enthusiasts, any talk of the average quality of turnkey options is sort of besides the point
A 300 blk bolt gun makes sense to me.
Something with a shorter action and oal makes it easy to transport and allows for faster aim adjustment. Also you can swap between super and subsonics for different applications.
I eventually want to get a 300 blk mini fix, but they are fricking expensive.
Of all of those the Howa.
Ruger if you want the capability to use AR mags
CZ 527 is cool, but not that great. The bolt is very prone to binding.
If you could find one I'd really recommend the Tikkas in .223. Smooth bolt that is very hard to bind, comes with a better stock than the POS houge the Howa comes with, good mags, good trigger, best in class barrels, integral rail for solid mounting.
>it's effects cannot be utilized to any significant advantage in your average rifle
just use heavier round nosed or flatnosed projectiles instead of lighter spitzers
the change in bullet shape alone can help a ton
My bolt actions, with exception of a .22LR are all deer caliber and above.
For coyotes on the back lot, I use a SKS or Ruger Mini-14. Had a Ruger in 300BLK, but the action was loud enough to alert the coyotes, so sold it and just use the unsilenced semiautos.
7.62x39 ruger american. cheap, suppressor ready, quiet, accurate. 7.62x39 ammo is still extremely cheap compared to anything else in its power range. With a good suppressor and subsonic loads you have an extremely quiet rifle that has more punch than a 9mm+p. (supersonics much more powerful but louder) It isn't gucci and im sure there are rifles that outclass it in everyway, but not for the cost. Sneaky and fun to shoot.
Personally I want a Howa mini action, in green, and in 7.62x39, so not only I can share ammo with my SKS, but I can take full advantage of the accurate Serbian brass cased Belom ammo I've been hoarding, so i cam go full Tabuk on some metal plates
prairie dog exploders
They are cool, fun, and cheaper to shoot sinple as
keked, fpbp
No
no.
Yes, if the ammo is cheap and plentiful. If you have 2000 rounds of 7.62x39, getting a bolt gun in that caliber will only upset autistics.
There are no practical use cases for intermediate cartridges. Even in short ranges a 30 caliber rifle will perform better than an intermediate cartridge. The 30 cal can be used anywhere from 0-600 yards with extreme precision while the intermediate cartridges can maybe get to 200 yards while maintaining some level of precision.
>t. well-read sniper literature autist
Yes, you can have a super light rifle which doesn't have harsh recoil (very lightweight .308s are NOT nice shoot, for instance), and there's plenty of game suitable for .223 and 7.62x39mm, in addition to low cost.
That's still plenty of range, and something like 6.5mm Grendel or .300BLK will work perfectly fine for deer and what not.
>That's still plenty of range, and something like 6.5mm Grendel or .300BLK will work perfectly fine for deer and what not.
He asked if intermediate bolt rifles make sense and the answer is that they do not. A small bullet like that loses a lot of energy over distance, with velocity being its main advantage, which is also loses at distance.
300aac doesnt have the range you think it does, its underpowered 7.62x39. Its designed for suppressor use and as such has sub-sonic speeds. 6.5CM is OK, but with a small projectile it will be less resistant to wind drift.
Tldr, bolt guns are precision weapons in the current year, if you want an intermediate caliber then get an AR, if you want a bolt gun then it only makes sense to get a full size caliber.
Deny this all you want but I am right.
>A small bullet like that loses a lot of energy over distance, with velocity being its main advantage, which is also loses at distance.
If I'm shooting under 180yds I fail to see the problem.
>300aac doesnt have the range you think it does, its underpowered 7.62x39. Its designed for suppressor use and as such has sub-sonic speeds.
I was more thinking supersonic loads, but subsonic ones would be fine at under 100yds.
>6.5CM is OK, but with a small projectile it will be less resistant to wind drift.
I said 6.5mm Grendel, not Creedmoor. It has a flatter trajectory than 7.62x39mm and heavier projectile than 5.56mm, and once again performs very well at shorter ranges.
>Tldr, bolt guns are precision weapons in the current year, if you want an intermediate caliber then get an AR, if you want a bolt gun then it only makes sense to get a full size caliber.
Meanwhile, you're not putting together an AR15 which weighs 4.5lbs loaded without looking at something ridiculously skeletonized, including the carrier.
>Deny this all you want but I am right.
Sneed.
>I said 6.5mm Grendel
Yes I know, thats why I said 6.5 CM because your grendel shit is a literal who caliber whereas 6.5CM is all the rage. Getting a piece of shit intermediate caliber in a bolt gun is pure hinderance. Its ONLY saving grace (intermediate cartridges) was being able to fire the in rapid succession, hence why bolt guns were made for 30 caliber ammunition. If you want a weak ass toy to shoot cans with then by all means do it, but at least save yourself some money and get a 22.
Bolt guns come in full power and trainer (22.) varieties, dont be one of those degenerate fricks that creates a mutt abomination.
Wow, you sure seem really angry, maybe you should enhance your calm. Again, I'm not shooting elk at 400yds, so I don't really care about performance for ranges I don't hunt at, and I enjoy a gun that weighs nothing with little recoil, with enough power to be suitable.
I don't find 6.5mm Sneedmor necessary.
Im not angry though, just a precision rifle purist.
This is the most moronic post I've read in a while
>hence why bolt guns were made for 30 caliber ammunition
What the frick are you on about.
Even a 178gr .308 ELD-M isn't catching up to a 140gr 6.5 ELD-M, let alone a 147gr
Holy frick you tactitards are annoying. Not every gun needs to be an epic combat recce rifle for le boog whatever. The reasons that intermediate calibers are popular are
>reduced ammo cost
>reduced recoil
>specialized purpose, such as sub 600 yard precision or varmint hunting
And this Black person is the dumbest gorilla I've ever seen. The whole point of 6.5CM, which isn't an intermediate anyway mind you, is to shoot a high BC projectile out of a short action rifle. High BC means it's affected LESS by wind drift than a big fat .30 caliber projectile.
no pal, high bc is less affected by wing drift because of higher average speed and so lower time of flight over medium and long distances.
on same time of flight basis, big fat is more resistant on drift cuz 1) inertia, same as sectional density but in lateral way 2) low lenght/caliber ratio require less spin to stabilize, magnus effect generated by transversal wind on a spinning thing can affect up and down placement of bullet, besides the left right placement of the wind blowing the bullet away.
I was talking about bullets of near equal weight. A 140gr 6.5mm bullet shits all over a 150gr 30cal, but a 178gr 30cal will catch up to it simply due to its massive inertia like you said. You're still a gay though.
>That's still plenty of range, and something like 6.5mm Grendel or .300BLK will work perfectly fine for deer and what not.
Deer?
Anon, I can't fricking eat Black folk.
>he doesnt hunt the most dangerous game for sport
ngmi
not every .223 is regular joe 55grain
Tons of fun and cheap to shoot, with the right bullets a .223 bolt gun can take big game out to 450 in a lightweight low recoil hunting rifle
Read more
>There are no practical use cases for intermediate cartridges
what? logistics is a practical use case. Frankly it's the most practical use case.
How are logistics for 223. any different from logistics for 308 besides a difference in mass?
.223 is cheaper and lighter to carry, .223 guns are usually also cheaper and lighter to carry compare to an equivalent type of gun in .308
Is it though? You make it smaller so you can carry more of it but in doing so make it less lethal which means you need to shoot up to 3x more to kill the same person which results in it costing at least as much as just carrying and shooting 308 which would kill that person in 1 shot.
Just because you have a bucket of 22. doesnt mean it will kill anyone.
Bring the right tool for the job, we aint fightin varmints!
>you need to shoot up to 3x more to kill the same person
Dude, you show me someone who walked off a 5.56 to the head or the heart.
Well chuck taylor got drilled by an ak 3 times at point blank and he lived, and that bullet is far bigger.
Are you implying that you are a good enough shot to reliably hit someone center mass? No? Then 308 would do a far better job of gibbing someone and also blowing their heart out.
Most 7.62x39 rounds suck terminally compared to what's available in .223/5.56
An FN FAL would have ended our heros adventure is the charlie had one.
>Are you implying that you are a good enough shot to reliably hit someone center mass
What's the range?
I'm not a particularly great shot but making reliable center mass hits with a rifle isn't a particularly demanding shot at the sort of ranges that are going to be typical for the sort of defensive shooting scenarios I'm likely to find myself in.
A sucking chest wound is a sucking chest wound, small boolet means you can afford to make more sucking chest wound
I'll take the bait: any Black person you shoot and kill with .308 would have been basically killed just as hard with .223, barring maybe an engagement past 300yds or something, in which case a .223 would still be a really fricking serious wound if a hit from .308 at that part of the body would have killed them in seconds.
Mind that people have died in a real hurry from a single center mass hit from .45, 9mm, or even .32, in some instances, and both .223 and .308 have a lot more energy than all of those past practical pistol ranges.
>basically killed just as hard
No, you are wrong. The must be killed the hardest.
Penis inspection day just got serious.
>How are logistics for 308 any different from logistics for 14.5x114 besides a difference in mass?
We should equip soldiers with the physically largest cartridges possible because they're effective out to longer ranges and mass doesn't matter.
You're a fudd.
Are you implying there's no intermediate .30 cal rifles? Guess you aren't as "well-read" or "autistic" as you claim, bucko!
Let me rephrase, "full power cartridge". Sorry, 30 cal USED TO mean 30-06 and the like, lol.
i've shot 500 yards with a 16" ar
>nuh uh, studies show you can't do that
frick off moron
This is why no one should take book worms seriously for anything other than as autists who lack the experience to know things first hand, and who don't have the ability of abstract thinking and rely on whatever knowledge first reaches them to hold onto as the "truth". In the Muhreenes we shot at man sized targets 500 yards away with iron sights using M855 62 grain green tip. And this Black person is saying 200 yards is the max effective range?
>In the Muhreenes we shot at man sized targets 500 yards away with iron sights
Ok granpda its time to take your meds.
Probably not alone as some sort of ghetto sniper, he likely means that he and his squad engaged enemies together at that distance, in which case the volume of aimed fire would add up and get it done.
No what he means is they shot man size targets at 500 yards on a range. Good visibility, known distance.
In practice just estimating distance correctly using only your eyes requires loads of practice. And at those ranges being 20% off in your estimate means missing.
Still perfectly doable though, I can't but I know people who can
>being so moronic that he can't even google the USMC's rifle qualifications standards
too bad they don't make meds for stupidity.
>t. doesn't own guns, will never own guns and shakes when he holds one
You’re full of shit, a 14.5 inch M4 is point accurate up to 500 meters. The 5.56 was specifically designed to keep its velocity beyond average engagement distances, while still being lighter than full sized 7.62. Of course the full sized cartridge isn’t obsolete, DMRs and GMPGs exist for a reason, but as far as for the average fighter 5.56 is pretty damn sufficient for man to man fighting.
t. US soldier with Carbine Expert qualification
aside from plinking
>big game
too weak
>medium game at long range
full power bolt like 308/3006 is better
>medium game at close range
full power is still better, as is shotgun, or lever action
>varminting
good, but might as well use semi auto unless you are expecting to walk a long ways
>wildlife defense
revolver, shotgun, or lever
If you wanted to do precision shooting on a budget or with added ballistic challenge, it makes the most sense. The most obvious use case is the one that most of /k/ is too dumb to understand: because it's all you have, or because it's "good enough" and you already have that cartridge stacked to the ceiling. If you want to shoot deer, and you already got an AK, you have tons of practice ammo for a CZ 527, which is not ideal but absolutely good enough.
>better
That word doesn't matter. A full power cartridge has more energy at range, but so does a magnum. Why aren't you shooting whitetails under 200 yards with a .338 lapua magnum?
All that matters is if the cartridge is enough. 7.62x39, .223 Remmington, .30 Carbine, and everything else can be perfectly fine for taking game. If the cartridge does what you need it to, then it's perfectly fine. Who gives a frick if you have more energy at 300 yards when you live in the woods and the only sight line more than 50 yards is a road? The ability of a cartridge to make a quartering shot on a bull moose from 350 yards with 80 yards of elevation are irrelevant for someone who doesn't see those.
This guy gets it. The people having pissing contests about calibers don't actually use their guns, or worse, don't own any. Good enough is a real concept.
This is why I hunt with a 357 lever gat. In many years of hunting I never took or had a shot at anything beyond 50 or so yards give or take bc I hunt eastern woods. Always get my deer and it's super effective. Also a lot less meat damage hardly anything is bloodshot.
.357 is such an excellent light rifle cartridge.
coyote and hawg hunting at night in a semi rural area where u dont want people to wake up and call the cops on u
people outside of baltimore and detroit are not going to sleep through 7.62 fire on their block
i do it in rural mississippi. i got some old people a third of a mile down the road in both directions. they dont care about a few rounds of 7.62 in the middle of the night but if i was shooting a .308 or something or blasting with an ar15 they probably would
This is the most noguns post I've read in months
Pretty sure by 7.62 he meant 7.62x39
Protip: different guns/calibers have different reports that carry differently over distances.
We’re talking about a distance of about 5 city blocks in a rural area. You can hear blackcats from that far away. Plz touch range
This doesn't make any sense.
There are 3 main roles I can think of
- hunting medium animals (like foxes, coons etc)
- hunting larger animals like deer at close range (under 200m)
- having acces to intermediate ammo in cucked countries. Intermediate is very fun to shoot, cheap and a bolt action intermediate rifle makes a good training gun if you do it for fun.
>having acces to intermediate ammo in cucked countries. Intermediate is very fun to shoot, cheap and a bolt action intermediate rifle makes a good training gun if you do it for fun
In Frogland we do shoot foxes and river rats with 222 remington as 223 is far more restricted.
for plinking, for pest control, for subsonic suppressed loads.
Define intermediate.
Have sex
Define intermediate.
The same fricking definition everyone uses, homosexual.
>Do intermediate caliber bolt actions make sense in any role?
Sure, you can take a deer with 5.56 at ranges under 300 yards. You can also fire sub sonic rounds that wouldn't cycle a semi auto.
Lots of Europeans hunt grouse and similar game birds with .222 and .223 bolties
>Lots of Europeans hunt grouse and similar game birds with .222 and .223 bolties
Are you moronic? We hunt them with birdshot or rimfire .22's. A .222 or .223 would completely blow them apart.
.223 does blow them apart, 6.5x55, 308 etc fmj does not.
Sniping them out of trees a traditional way of hunting grouse in scandinavia
I find it hard to believe that a .308 won't blow them apart. What distance do you shoot them at? Can't be more than 100-200 metres. At that distance a .308 is still going 750 m/s. Whenever a big, fast bullet hits a delicate target, it's bound to go boom. Here we just snack up to them and whack them with 3,5 mm birdshot. Or use a .22 mag.
you can believe what you want doesn't have much basis in reality though. a 6.5 or 308 fmj will mostly just zip right through
moron. that big bullet is not going to disintegrate hitting a small mostly hollow weightless bird. Bullets must hit a medium that has enough resistance to get them to deliver energy.
Ok Black person, then why do pumpkins have tennis ball size exit holes when you shoot them with .308 FMJs? Fact is, shooting small shit with full power rifle cartridges is going to yield totally RNG results. Black person tier attitude to think one rifle can do it all. Actual hunters have different rifles for different classes of game.
No one said one rifle can do it all, imbecile. Just that those bigger calibers are still perfectly capable of hunting small game if you know what you're doing. As shown to you in a video you've purposely ignored because you're a low I.Q. moron with cognitive dissonance.
Lol i have shot hundreds of birds with 30.06, not one has exploded. 308. Works great for birds
.223 bolt guns are popular in the UK since they aren't allowed in semi.
I think a scout rifle build in 7.62x39, .300 blackout or 6.5 grendel could be quite interesting for the lower recoil. Since you're not going to be shooting at long range anyway the intermediate rounds might be an interesting alternative to full size rifle rounds
Intermediate ammo tends to be significantly cheaper than big boy bullets, so you can practice more with your gun.
They're lightweight and conveniently sized.
Good accuracy on a budget.
Does fine for hunting medium sized game, and I imagine it'll shoot a person pretty good too, if you have to.
If you live basically anywhere in the world other than the US, they make perfect sense for a number of applications.
Yes: fun.
It's fun to lob small bullets at steel far away and doesn't cost as much as big rounds like 300WM.
An integrally suppressed bolt gun in something like .300 Blackout would be a very quiet mid ranged weapon.
what does this thread have to do with ukraine
Read the sticky
9" .300 blackout boltgun with a sidefolder would be pretty handy in a lot of situations
That would be a good close range hunting gun.
CZ is making a new packable trail rifle. Weighs 6 lbs. Right now its just in .223 and 7.62 X 39 but it might come out in .300 blackout later.
https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-600-trail/
I really wish they didn't discontinue the CZ527 for this thing.
They still make one with the irons if you don't mind wood. It weight a little more though.
https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-600-lux/
I'm kind of with you on the 500 series though. I feel like standard irons were one of the things that distinguished CZ from their competitors.
The 600 series already has a massive recall because they're unsafe. CZ really fricked up, should've just kept the 527 instead of trying to fix what wasn't broken by designing a new broken gun.
https://cz600recall.com/
Hmmm, sounds like they fricked up the modular barrels. So you can install it improperly but still fire the gun which doesn't sound good.
Yup, dumb ideas for features, poor execution, dangerous product, CZ screwed themselves. And the fact that they completely discontinued the 500 series rifles ontop of it all, so now potential consumers can't even get a CZ rifle at all and have to settle for another brand.
The issue was that the screws could come loose and lead to headspace issues with repeated firing. It wasn't a design flaw so much as it was an issue with people not torquing properly or using loctite. Anyone who wasn't stupid wouldn't have run into an issue, but the problem is that some fraction of people are both stupid and litigious. Their "fix" is that they just solder the screws in place.
After the craptasric bolt on the 527 and rear sight that isn't attached, I am never buying CZ again.
What did customer service say?
>Varminting
>PRS trainer
>Because it's fun
marksmanship practice
Yes
Bolties are the only guns with true soul.
Yes.
Some of us live in the woods and deer arent that tough
Getting around semi auto mag laws.
no
Hunting, intermediate calibers allow for lighter rifles and are still more than enough to kill deer/hogs. Plinking, ammo is cheaper so you can afford more range time. If you reload, it uses less powder and if it's lower pressure the brass lasts through a bunch of reloads.
>recently find out about the CZ 527 after looking for a 7.62x39 bolt action.
I have a frickload of 7.62x39, and three other rifles chambered in the caliber but is really THAT bad? Should I really just stick to 8mm for hunting?
7.62x38 really isn't a good general use hunting round. it gets outshone by .223 but for 200 and in its workable with good hunting ammo.
7.62x39*
I was too busy thinking about taking a shit
Is that including heavy brush of the South? As far as I know 7.62x39 is better due to it's reduced deviation in thick brush within 200 yards. I'd like to express I'm not arguing I'm just looking for outside perspective.
7.62 X 39 is slower velocity so it loses elevation and accuracy faster than 5.56. It does punch through brush better but if you're worried about punching through brush and the like why not hop up to a bigger round like 30-06.
30-06 is great man. It'll kill anything in North America.
From everything I've seen, brush busting doesn't really work and fricks up the paths of any bullet so I would try and avoid it completely no matter what you're shooting.
If you wanna shoot through brush then you'll want something that shoots a much heavier bullet than those, .45-70 Gov't, .458 WinMag, .458 SOCOM, etc.
Brush busting is for all practical purposes a myth. I'm sure some fringe cases may be "somewhat" relevant but if your bullet hits something before it's target it's going wild.
A 122mm howitzer will be significantly deflected by a 1mm piece of sheet metal.
>Brush busting is for all practical purposes a myth
false
It's true, a myth on par with fo five stoopahn powah
It literally isn't a myth.
>for all practical purposes
It is based on a true phenomenon however it's effects cannot be utilized to any significant advantage in your average rifle.
>it's effects cannot be utilized to any significant advantage in your average rifle
just use heavier round nosed or flatnosed projectiles instead of lighter spitzers
the change in bullet shape alone can help a ton
This I'll give you. The shape of the projectile is much much more crucial than the external ballistics.
You'll have shorter range and less power, but it'll kill a deer at closer distances just fine.
If what you've got is a bunch of shitty steelcase though, you're not looking at the greatest groups with a bolt-action, so it's more just for plinking with that stuff. If you use nice hunting ammo and match ammo, maybe load your own, then you can get quite nice groups.
My typical engagements is sub 200 yards being in the South. I'd however like to engage with some buddies in tag sport elsewhere (Primarily in the Rockies/West of the Rockies) so I'd imagine I'd have long vistas to aim from. My main question being, is 7.62x39 effective outside of heavily forested environments or am I better just using my 8mm?
target shooting
sometimes want more bang than 22 and less than 30-06
then i use 233
I think everyone should have four target guns
high end 30 cal air rifle
semi auto 22lr
bolt action 223
bolt action 30-06
this keeps you very happy at almost every range almost every person has acesss to
30-100 yards? air gun
100-200 yards? 22lr
200-400 yards? 223
400-800 yards? 30-06
I'd say, you want a .22 for small game and plinking, and I'd probably say a semi auto but the action isn't that important.
A 5.56 with an LPVO for deer and smaller game at closer range and honestly for 5.56 you might as well get a semi auto like an AR or Mini 14 so long as the barrel is 16 inches or longer.
A bolt action 30-06 with a higher magnification scope for long range and big critters.
And a 12 gauge shotgun for birds and anything else at close range.
There are places for all sorts of guns but those four plus a 9mm pistol cover pretty much everything.
tbh if we’re talking about need, not a well rounded sporting collection, unironically a single shot break action 12 gauge solves 99.99% of problems, especially one with threaded choke tubes
i was just referring to a target shooting collection though, not an overall sporting collection.
There is a company that makes a takedown 22 lr bolt action gun. Iirc it's called the Owahee. Very cool gun and uses 10/22 mags and furniture.
>30-06
Boomers, baka
If you want the zoomer equivalent, there's always 6.5 PRC. I would say the 300 PRC, but that's more of the .300 Win Mag equivalent.
A 30-06 is a 7.62x51 that can fire more than just cuckbullets.
.30-06 can fit extra heavy bullets because it itself got cucked to reduce its velocity, hence there's a bunch of empty space in there.
>can fit
It’s not a matter of fitting. It’s a matter of twist rate. 308 and 30-06 have different barrels.
they sell 30 cal barrels with every twist rate under the sun, and 30-06 can fit bigger longer bullets
isn’t this a image board for enthusiasts, any talk of the average quality of turnkey options is sort of besides the point
A 300 blk bolt gun makes sense to me.
Something with a shorter action and oal makes it easy to transport and allows for faster aim adjustment. Also you can swap between super and subsonics for different applications.
I eventually want to get a 300 blk mini fix, but they are fricking expensive.
Howa Mini vs Ruger Ranch vs CZ 527
go
Howa for cost
Ranch for aftermarket and cheap mags
CZ for quality.
Of all of those the Howa.
Ruger if you want the capability to use AR mags
CZ 527 is cool, but not that great. The bolt is very prone to binding.
If you could find one I'd really recommend the Tikkas in .223. Smooth bolt that is very hard to bind, comes with a better stock than the POS houge the Howa comes with, good mags, good trigger, best in class barrels, integral rail for solid mounting.
Yeah
I have a savage axis in 223. I have more fun with that than just about any rifle I own.
>Do intermediate caliber bolt actions make sense in any role?
Yes. Cheap to practice with, teaches good habits for bigger calibers, and fun.
My bolt actions, with exception of a .22LR are all deer caliber and above.
For coyotes on the back lot, I use a SKS or Ruger Mini-14. Had a Ruger in 300BLK, but the action was loud enough to alert the coyotes, so sold it and just use the unsilenced semiautos.
What is the camo pattern of pic related?
it says MULTICAM™ on the stock bro
what stock is that it looks cool
it's a howa mini
Am just a lowly mobile user, small ass text.
7.62x39 ruger american. cheap, suppressor ready, quiet, accurate. 7.62x39 ammo is still extremely cheap compared to anything else in its power range. With a good suppressor and subsonic loads you have an extremely quiet rifle that has more punch than a 9mm+p. (supersonics much more powerful but louder) It isn't gucci and im sure there are rifles that outclass it in everyway, but not for the cost. Sneaky and fun to shoot.
If one is inclined, the Ruger American can look nice with an aftermarket wooden stock.
Looks shit
Personally I want a Howa mini action, in green, and in 7.62x39, so not only I can share ammo with my SKS, but I can take full advantage of the accurate Serbian brass cased Belom ammo I've been hoarding, so i cam go full Tabuk on some metal plates