Did the Xm-25 ever take off? Posted on March 9, 2023 by PrepHole Contributor Did the Xm-25 ever take off?
No. It's heavy and doesn't bring as much utility as a lot of shoulder launchers.
dedicated grenadier role is extremely effective but
yeah project was cursed/fucked
Seems like it'd be a great choice for cav units, or units otherwise primarily operating out of vehicles. You could still keep a rifle as a personal defense weapon, but have something like the XM-25 close at hand for the squad or platoon to draw upon as needed.
no got way bigger guns on vehicles or you can just fuck off and let artillery deal with it
It does still offer a good deal of flexibility if you need to dismount and engage, but you aren't married to it if you can afford to just sit back and let heavy weapons and arty do it's thing.
It was briefly field tested in Afghanistan, but after a major malfunction led to a detonation injuring a soldier the project was cancelled.
>still repeating this bullshit
>In 2017 Orbital ATK filed suit via the U.S. District court in the district of Minnesota against Heckler and Koch for damages of over US$27 million, claiming failure to deliver 20 XM25 prototype units. The filing also requested Transfer of Intellectual Property to allow Orbital ATK to contract another vendor for production of the system. The complaint stated that Heckler and Koch had wished legal clarification regarding potential violations of the Saint Petersburg Declaration of 1868, which bans "any projectile of a weight below 400 grams" containing explosives. After consultation Heckler and Koch had stipulated that the US Government issue a special certification regarding use of the weapons system. The US Government did not issue such and negotiations broke down. In April 2017, the Army cancelled its contract with Orbital ATK after they failed to deliver 20 weapons as specified by the terms, putting the operational future of the XM25 in jeopardy.
>On 24 July 2018, the Army signed a memorandum officially terminating the program, after settling the lawsuit with Orbital ATK that gave the military intellectual property rights to the weapons and ammunition.
thats called "cancelling a project," anon. they always end up in minor legal battles and defunding.
the grenade system itself was a great success, too. even an explosive failure didn't detonate the warheads.
>thats called "cancelling a project," anon. they always end up in minor legal battles and defunding.
So you didn't actually read what I posted? The project got cock blocked by some obscure treaty from the 1800s.
anon, that was a pretense to hold and then the holding turned into a cancelling and legal action. if they wanted it to go it would go.
>still not reading what I posted
>not that anon but a treaty that only mattered between signatories and the US was not a part of
Germany was however, and the XM25 was being developed by HK with the optic being developed by ATK in the US.
>doubling down because you can't handle being wrong
The case of the gun exploding happened in 2013, was quickly fixed, and development continued with more testing in 2016.
idk about the malfunction thing that seems fine, it was flat out cancelled instead of having make-believe legal problems though.
>Germany was however
the Federal Republic of Germany did not exist in 1868
>The project got cock blocked by some obscure treaty from the 1800s.
not that anon but a treaty that only mattered between signatories and the US was not a part of, nevermind whatever the fuck is up with how modern Germany is legally held to that document given it's charged legal form several times since.
>Heckler and Koch had wished legal clarification regarding
should be read as:
>Heckler and Koch asked if they were going to be paid for working more
and the answer was silence.
>Almost all 40mm projectiles are over 400g
>This doesn't stop HK from selling grenade launchers
It reads "any projectile of a weight below 400 grams," anon. Below, not above.
>make incredible advanced grenade launcher with airburst capability
>reported to quickly end engagements, impressive performance
>rounds have little plastic caps on the front of them
>operators are specifically told to not take off the plastic caps
>11B takes off the front cap
>XM25 explodes and takes off a dudes hand
The problem with double feeds causing the gun to explode if you removed the plastic caps from the ammo was already solved by simply having the primers set into the cases slightly at the time it got canceled.
>XM25 explodes and takes off a dudes hand
It didn't even do that. Minor injuries only.
The accident wasn't why they cancelled it - the project trucked on for 5 more years. They cancelled it because they didn't want to fund it and so SASC engineered the contract issue and intentionally burned bridges despite the Army wanting to keep the program.
And guess what? The Army still wants it. They put out an RFI for the Precision Grenadier System in 2020 and it went through the CGAB mid last year. The PGS' system requirements are almost exactly "give us XM-25 but this time with the option for an anti-drone round"
>It's called the Precision Grenadier System and the solicitation basically reads like the XM25 description with the name taken out.
Don't forget they added the Counter UAS round and loosened some of the requirements compared to what the XM-25 could do.
Ballistic solutions for volley fire into a defilade are very very limited if you can't control velocity. The classic is the guy under an opening in a large, roofed room. You can't hit him with plunging fire due to the roof, and firing horizontally will send the rounds past him.
unmanned aerial something
Unmitigated Anal Seepage
when did the military ever care about some grunt getting fragged?
BS, they did not cancel the project
The grenades were too small, and the range too limited to justify further development. The accident was just the icing on the cake. The current direction is rightly shifting toward man-portable smart bombs either fired from mortars or single-use launchers.
I think you're right, the programmable ammo aspect is gonna get more mileage when married to vehicle mounted weapons since it solves the weight and built issue
Yes, but after disappointment in meme cartridge. The smart grenade launcher is a very cool concept for now after electronic and computer vision technologies matured enough.
>Did the cancelled project ever take off?
we sure get some real geniuses on this board.
Of course. Don't you see them all over the place in the modern battlefield?
I unironically expect we'll see some new version of the XM-25, or at least a project that basically is just the XM-25 in the next 3-5 years. The scope on the top of the weapon could be made 1/10th the size nowadays, and probably far better. The rest of the weapon could also probably be made lighter, smaller, cheaper if someone other than HK was in charge.
the ngsw scope system could probably be adapted to it with a software update, that shit's all modular.
It's called the Precision Grenadier System and the solicitation basically reads like the XM25 description with the name taken out.
The Army has been on a roll with purchasing new systems and this is the era of rearmament, so we'll see what happens.
I mean, it really only makes sense to design this sort of weapon nowadays given how small and rugged sensitive, advanced electronics can be made, and cheaply. The ability to give a squad the ability to airburst some gays hiding behind a boulder/wall/inside a room/etc. only makes sense. Especially with how ubiquitous shit like thermals/NVGs/AR systems are becoming.
do you really need airburst if you have smarty scopes that can adjust for volley fire properly?
Do you need the ability to defeat cover? Yes.
Preferably yes. Even with volley/indirect fire, having the munitions explode in the air offers way better efficiency and kill chance than them farting half their energy/shrapnel into the ground.
>do you really need airburst
Does the enemy have cover? Then yes.
Don't worry, that's only fired from larger 30mm auto cannons mounted on armored vehicles. Not an infantry weapon or the light 30mm auto cannons that they're looking at mounting on the JLTV, or at least not yet.
The logistical footprint would be larger than an M2, but that just seems like it would much, much more effective at engaging targets than a .50 cal.
Consider that the Mk19 has already been regularly used alongside the M2 for decades
That is a fair point true. Question one I have is are there 40mm air burst rounds available for it? and two, compared to 40mm, could switching to a 30mm weapon bridge the gap in logistical foot print between .50 cal and 40mm to any significant degree?
Come to think of it, why don't they try to weld some sort of range finder thingie in the mk19 and give it programmable munitions?
That are a shot load of them in use already so convertain a few wouldn't be a problem
Gotta think it shouldn't be a problem. The tech to do so is certainly there. Just comes down a matter of money and will I suppose.
the tech should be in the sighting system, rangefinders and shit area already there
Everyone's an IFV
the age of light infantry is over
Okay, so get this. We buy the unused stocks of these anti-school shooting blankets, dye them OD or tan and cover the trench tops with them.
Dear God that is terrifying.
It should have been issued to snipers and designated marksmen instead of grenadiers
>it should have been issued to snipers
do they even high-low? guy getting scope bit.
High-low deals with pressure, not recoil.
low pressure should be low recoil, unless it's actually high-pressure->stupidly-high-pressure
Bitch have you never heard of Newton's third law of motion?
Still uses hi-low system but is loaded much hotter. Think of the mk-19's 40x53 vs the m-203's 40x46.
It's obviously a long soft rubber cup. Otherwise the dude would have a hole in the back of his head from the sheer force of that recoil.
after how many shots has the shoulder to be replaced?
no replace shoulder very pricey
replace whole soldier much cheaper
>no ear protection
>but covid mask
'ate bugs, but their grenade launchers are cool.
You ate bugs? Gross.
>it should have seen very little use rather than being issued at the platoon or squad level like the US planned to do
its pretty cool those nades go off after keyholing
it certainly took off a few hands
>this new potato sling is available amy time now™
I hope that it gets revived along with this frenchkino.
The 90's really were a different time.
We really were fucking retarded.
Only retarded in that we could clearly see the future, yet chose to look away.
People don't realize how slim the XM-25 was becoming by 2015. A modern intereptation of the concept could only be a big improvement.
that is a tubby boy
Be it flexible munition recoilless rifle, commando mortar or digitalized grenade launcher, they are all going to compete with machinegun or AT launchers in terms of budget and equipment load inside the fire team.
Like most army organization that does away with creating bigger unit with 3 identical subunits, there isn't room for mix & match either. If it cannot take over the MG role, what is left is rarely sprinkle them in weapon squad or minimaturize them that doesn't take up the space.
The GL that would equate a LMG in weight and firepower is a double stack box fed semi auto/bolt action grenade launcher. It occasionally can be topped off with specialty type ammo like HEAT and smoke either one by one from a bandolier or by stripper clips. A belt-fed GL is going to be the equivalent of a HMG.
checked but what does this even mean? is this a wikipedia copy/paste or something?
muh DOD proposal.
Appeared in MW3 so it did to me
DoD pulled it from the publics eye because it was just too effective. The OICW was ready since the 90s, but was shelved because:
You don't put your best weapons out for everyone to see.
OICW was a success
XM8 was a success
XM25 was a total super duper success
Don't let the milfags tell you otherwise.
Says the military which gave a 20lbs machinegun with a tiny 20rnd magazine as standard issue during WW2 (BAR)
You have brain worms
Yes. But avoided introduction and adoption into the us military, this is because it would result in the profileration of organic infantry airburst munitions, which if used against the us military would cause more harm than the benefits of equipping us soldiers with it l. Since the us can call on airstrikes or missiles.
The platform is however fully developed and would be adopted if the us was involved in a peer war.
Chinese already seem like they're doing it either way. Maybe its more effective than the XM-25, maybe it's about the same, maybe it's less effective, but the point is either way it's already being done by our only real near peer conventional adversary