Did the STG44 really inspire the AK and AR platforms?

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    AK? probably.
    AR? probably not.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >the dust cover
      >hinged receivers
      yeah it did

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I think those are too vague of a feature to say that someone was "inspired" by it. Are they similar? Somewhat, but to truly know we'd need a confirmation from the designer

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >stamped steel construction
          >same spring design
          >opens automatically when the bolt cycles
          >Swings out of the way
          >spring tension keeps it always open to prevent it from getting in the way and causing a malfunction
          >uses a spring ball detent to lock it into the receiver
          Bro it's literally the same design, and is the same operation. just the Stg opens upward and the AR opens downward

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            That makes three (3) similarities against the AK's five (5)

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I think those are too vague of a feature to say that someone was "inspired" by it. Are they similar? Somewhat, but to truly know we'd need a confirmation from the designer

        The original AK receiver hinged behind the magazine well just like the StG-44 lmao

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous
          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            И тoгдa, и ceйчac

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          We're talking the AR, not the AK. Read

          AK? probably.
          AR? probably not.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Asking if the STG-44 inspired the AK or AR is like asking if the Maxim inspired the M60. Are the guts the same? No, as they were designed by different people, in different times, with different design goals and technology. But in terms of what those guts ultimately are meant to do, the idea is the same. So of course the first successful carbine/assault-rifle design would go on to inspire whatever came after.
          BUT, as points out, there definitely are influences from the STG-44 in other weapons. It's been said that gun technology really hasn't advanced much past the 50's, and arguably as early as the 30's. That statement has some truth to it, as the general concept of a using a gas tube, an upper and lower receiver, the ergonomics, etc., were present in the STG-44 and those design features have been present in most fighting rifles since.

          As an aside, If there's one platform it absolutely inspired, it would be the G3 platform, as it was quite literally designed by the same people and uses more or less the same mechanism. Just look at pic rel, the magazine and stock are more or less unchanged from the 44.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >If there's one platform it absolutely inspired, it would be the G3 platform, as it was quite literally designed by the same people and uses more or less the same mechanism.
            Are you seriously trying to say that a tilting-bolt long-stroke piston rifle is the same mechanism as a roller-delayed action? Do me a favor and see

            >HK G3 line as its direct successor
            >not even remotely related mechanically
            If morons like you learned to keep your worthless babbling to yourself the world would be a better place

            The G3 was based off the CETME, which was made by German engineers in Spain post-WWII, which was based off the roller delayed principle first conceived of by the Gerat 06H, which was to be a cheaper alternative to the StG 44 designed by a completely different engineer. Mechanically, the G3 has almost nothing in common with the StG44 besides the fact that it's a stamped sheet steel receiver (not particularly novel.)

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              The way the receiver, FCG housing, and stock end cap fit together is basically identical on the StG44 and the G3. Watch a disassembly video of both and it's obvious.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Also buffer tube

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Did the STG44 really inspire the AK and AR platforms?
      I agree with
      The AK is not mechanically the same as the StG but in terms of what they try to do they are pretty much identical. A short barreled rifle firing a shortened rifle cartridge from a high capacity magazine with a selector switch that allows the weapon to be used as an SMG or make-shift LMG should the need arise. It's a weapon that trades range for compactness and automatic fire.

      The AR on the other hand I believe has its roots more in the M1/2 Carbine. People talk about how assault rifles were lighter because the ammunition was lighter than full sized rifle rounds but it wasn't really true for the StG and AK, the rounds are only 1/3rd lighter and the difference in weight is made up by the weight of the magazine. The AR like the M1 Carbine was all about reducing weight but where it differed from the Carbine was in power, .30 Carbine sacrificed power for weight, the AR's .223 narrowed the bullet to keep the speed and thus the range and lethality.

      Just to drive this difference in weight home.
      >AK-47 9lbs loaded, 30rd magazine 2lbs each.
      >Mosin 9lbs empty, 30rds loose ammo 1.45lbs
      >M-16 7lbs loaded, 20rd magazine 0.7lbs each, 30rd magazine 1lb each
      You can see that you are not carrying more ammo with an AK/StG then a Mosin, a K98 or a Garand with their full sized ammunition in clips, with those rifles it is all about the high capacity, compactness and select fire capability. The M16 on the other hand was made with low weight entirely as the focus. That is why I chalk its primary ancestor as the Carbine, not the StG.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >firing a shortened rifle cartridge from a high capacity magazine with a selector switch that allows the weapon to be used as an SMG or make-shift LMG should the need arise.
        >a weapon that trades range for compactness and automatic fire.
        You literally just described the AR, too.

        I think you're ignoring two critical elements.
        - The need for an SCHV cartridge came about due to full-auto and follow-up shot accuracy improvements; the weight benefits, while present, were a secondary factor. This need preceded the development of the AR-15.
        - The adoption of the AR-15 came about from opportunistic demonstrations after it was already designed, the AR wasn't designed per military requests.

        Everyone was switching to a lower recoil, smaller cartridge. Hell, if it weren't for the US forcing 7.62 NATO onto the western world, it would have happened sooner. The fact that it took the US (and, consequently, NATO countries) decades longer to adopt an intermediate cartridge can be blamed on bureaucracy but the need and benefits of such a thing were already known from the average engagement distances during WWII as well as the performance of the StG.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        > The AR on the other hand I believe has its roots more in the M1/2 Carbine.
        You are literally speculating and talking out of your ass.
        The AR design started with the AR-10 in the 1950s which is a full power battle rifle chambered for .308 which took design elements from several different existing firearms including the Johnson LMG. It was not scaled down to the intermediate cartridge until later.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    No the rsc 1917 did

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Autists will tell you that because the internal mechanisms are different the AK is completely unrelated to the Stg44, but Kalashnikov literally used captured Stgs44 as inspiration for the AK and the resemblance shows. The AR came later but all assault rifles have the original to thank for principles.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The AK is more like half stg half garand. Both were significant influences, the former on the cartridge & overall size/shape and the latter on operating mechanism

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Don't forget where the receiver geometry and selector came from

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I wish the Spanish adopted the CETME with an intermediate round instead 7.62x51.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      they did

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I’m talking about the original CETME that was supposed to be in 7.92x41

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I'm still so mad at myself for not buying up a bunch of those blanks when they started coming into the country. $50 per receiver flat and they're being sold completed for $2k+

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >they're being sold completed for $2k+
          No they're not. They're shelf warmers and the Marcolmar builds are regularly ~1200

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        How are they?

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Piston AR's are SVT40's

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    there is some speculation that Russian officers who were building the AK got a lot of inspiration for the final product from captured STG44s. but the initial conception was based heavily on the SKS.

    the AR-15 is a case of convergent processes. the AR-15 in-spite of its outward appearance started as a clone of the mouser bolt action rifle and the M1 garand.

    looking at the history of the gun makers:

    Arma-lite:
    >AR-1
    a Mauser rifle but made from aluminum and fiber glass.
    >AR-2/4/6
    never used
    >AR-3
    a semi-auto rifle made with an aluminum receiver, steel barrel, and fiberglass stock. said to resemble the SVT, but probably based the design on the garand and modified it.
    >AR-5
    a bolt action survival rifle
    >AR-7
    a semi-auto survival rifle
    >AR-9
    a semi auto shotgun that failed as a prototype, but was the basis for the AR-10
    >AR-10
    a .308 firing rifle, that is the direct predecessor to the AR-15
    >AR-11
    the AR-3 modified and shooting .222
    >AR-12
    basically a short stroke piston version of the AR-10
    >AR-13
    a design only anti aircraft weapon.
    >AR-14
    a sporting rifle, made of aluminum.
    >AR-15
    the AR-10 scaled down for .223/5.56

    so no luck on the AR.

    HOWEVER,

    we can confirm that the company H&K definitely did adopt the design when making their rifles. you can see many shared features in the MP5 and G3 rifle.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >AR-16
      A lightweight aluminum waterfowl shotgun

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I stopped at 15 on purpose. most rest aren't very famous or well known as they are some variation on the earlier.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          The AR-16, the progenitor of the AR-18, which is popularly attributed as the inspiration of every modern piston driven rifle...

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          The AR-18 is famous as the weapon of Irish moderate opposition.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      > H&K definitely did adopt the design when making their rifles. you can see many shared features in the MP5 and G3 rifle.
      H&K was literally founded by Ex-Mauser engineers who were continuing their work on roller-locked actions which started with the StG 45 (M)

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >H&K was literally founded by Ex-Mauser engineers who were continuing their work on roller-locked actions which started with the StG 45 (M)
        That is not a roller-locked action. It is not locked at all

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah whatever, roller delayed blowback. The point is the same

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It probably worked more like this
    >several people have the same idea but the Adeptus Administratum doesn't like new things
    >one guy manages to pull it off
    >a few other guys have similar ideas already in the works
    >the SKS exists and is almost the same concept
    >concept was seen to be successful
    >everybody wants one
    >guys who were crazy enough to be poised to strike get rich or famous, in the case of communists.

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Definitely, AK with corrections for not so great technological state of the soviet union, but AR barely got anything from it.

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It's evolutionary convergence more than anything, having a non full powered cartridge is something that's been experimented with. 7.62 Kurz shown the potential of the idea, and thus, .280 brit and 7.62x39mm were created.

    Also the AK's gas system is closer to a flipped over Garand, it just looks similar to the STG because the ergonomic design works.

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    As in the concept of a rifle that could fit both SMG and rifle roles in an intermediate round to Russia? No they had 7.62x41 in development during the war which evolved to 7.62x39. Kalashnikov himself credited the Garand for the gas piston system and IIRC the rotating bolt mechanism too. Could he have copied the shape? Possibly, either on accident or purposefully, though if that were the case why would he lie about it but tell the truth regarding the Garand? What I think is possible is a case of convergant evolution, but frick what I say we're gonna still be arguing about this long after we forget what an AK or STG even is and the last star burns out

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      > Possibly, either on accident or purposefully, though if that were the case why would he lie about it but tell the truth regarding the Garand?
      Because admitting to copying Germans/Nazis is completely unpalatable to Russians, especially of that generation.

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    When’s the PSA STG44 coming out?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Never

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    no, more of the HK G3 line as its direct successor. The same egnineering minds who worked on developing the stg 44 also worked to create the AK 47 though. like pic related

    this kalashnikov myth only became to be because glorious vatnik union could not have some filthy smelly faschists create glorious peoples rifle. So they needed a convenient fake hero which is apparent to anybody who knows anything about that nihilist open air prison. Kalashnikov itself is true breed tractorist or the equivalet of a village peasant in all of its public appearances.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >HK G3 line as its direct successor
      >not even remotely related mechanically
      If morons like you learned to keep your worthless babbling to yourself the world would be a better place

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        It really is crazy how many people in this thread need to take the advice in

    • 1 year ago
      No Censorship, glowfags

      >this kalashnikov myth only became to be because glorious vatnik union could not have some filthy smelly faschists create glorious peoples rifle. So they needed a convenient fake hero which is apparent to anybody who knows anything about that nihilist open air prison. Kalashnikov itself is true breed tractorist or the equivalet of a village peasant in all of its public appearances.

      THIS

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >this kalashnikov myth only became to be because glorious vatnik union could not have some filthy smelly faschists create glorious peoples rifle. So they needed a convenient fake hero which is apparent to anybody who knows anything about that nihilist open air prison. Kalashnikov itself is true breed tractorist or the equivalet of a village peasant in all of its public appearances.

      THIS

      You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and you reek of being a war tourist. Go back.

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >oh sweet a lottery to win an original PTR StG
    >Ian says you have to buy one of the StG collectible items to be entered
    >oh, I have to buy something? I guess I can get a keychain or something
    >the only item you can buy to enter is a $49 gun mat which doesn't even show disassembly
    Ian you israelite commie frick

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The StG inspired the AK, the FAL, the AR-10, the CETME/G3 (though they have direct lineage from the StG-45M as well), and numerous other post-War service rifle designs.
    > Captcha is GAY22

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    not particularly in both the mechanics of how the 2 weapons operate and role they were meant to fulfil. The AK design wise only superficially resembles the STG and functions closer to an M1 Garand (having both rifles its fairly obvious). as for the role the AK kinda was inspired by the STG but it was more the soviets post war vision for a 1 caliber red army with the SKS already being the main service rifle RPD for the machine gun and the AK which won the trial to become the weapon for assault units replacing/supplementing sub machine gun, just as time went on the AK proved itself to be more capable and economical than the SKS.

    The AR15 mechanically nothing in common with the STG, nor was it inspired by it or the AK. The AR came about as a downsizing of the AR10 which failed testing but received a second chance as early usage of the M14 were less than impressive so they set about requirements for a lightweight rifle which despite a stellar performance the Army still vetoed and it took Colt buying the rights when Armalite sold it, US special forces praising it, the air force buying them in bulk to replace the M1 carbine and demanding more of them, and McNamara/Kennedy basically putting a gun to the CJCS head and forcing them to adopt the rifle since by this point the M14 was an embarrassment in Vietnam.

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    AK as an idea was a response to the STG, needing an assault rifle, but the AK is actually based off the design of the M1 Garand.

    STG and AK have a similar shape. That's it. They have no other connection besides their shape and purpose

    AR is built from the ground-up as far as I know. There wasn't really anything remotely similar that came before it. And I can't recall any design Stoner ever referenced. The AR is about as baseless and unique as the M1 Carbine. That is a good comparison imo

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >STG and AK have a similar shape. That's it. They have no other connection besides their shape and purpose
      It's the only one that matters and the big difference vs. other previous rifles. The rest is just mechanical details.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I'd argue the mechanics are more important. If we are using that line of thinking then I would still say the AVS-36 "inspired" the AK more than the STG ever did. "Oh hey we can use smaller cartridges to make full-auto not shitty" is not an idea the STG-44 invented after all, they were just the first to implement it.

        It's like saying the Henry lever-action is what inspired the creation of every semi-auto gun in existence that came after it. That's simply not true. It is a cheap wehraboo circlejerk and I am tired of hearing about it.

        And if the STG-44 had never been invented, everyone would have still invented assault rifles because they weren't stupid and saw how ludicrously effective submachine guns were on the battlefield

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >is not an idea the STG-44 invented after all, they were just the first to implement it.
          The STG44 was not even the first German assault rifle. They'd been playing with the idea for most of the 30's. The French, Italians, Hungarians, Swiss, Americans, and Dutch had all been playing with the idea since the 20s.

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Yes but no and definitely not like how you think. The end.

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    No.

    AK Started out as a replacement for an SMG - was supposed to be an automatic weapon for the commander (kind of like Germans issued MP-40's for squad commanders).while the rest of the squad had mostly SKS and some sort of MG.

    AR started as a light, low recoil 7.62 NATO battle rifle that became an assault rifle only when 5.56 was introduced.

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