Did poland get scammed?

Tell me this isn't true and the PiStards haven't fucked up the next 40 years of polish tank divisions.
Lie to me if you have to.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    PiS haven't fucked up the next 40 years of armored divisions.
    The sky is green.
    Russians are civilised.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      AAAaaaaahhhhhhhhh
      AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
      AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Every tank has weak side hull armor idiot. Abrams or Leo2 are no better. This is why you get side addons when necessary.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Every tank has weak side hull armor idiot.
        *weaker compared to the front
        >Abrams or Leo2 are no better.
        Wrong.
        > This is why you get side addons when necessary.
        >you can just slap more on it, trust me
        Why haven't the russians done that with their pitifully underarmored soviet tanks? The best they could do was add reactive armor in most cases. Why do you think that is the case, anon?s

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >>you can just slap more on it, trust me

          Have you seen L2PL or K2 variants they just showed at Eurosatory? Russians don't do that because ERA is cheaper and they can't make good solid armor in the first place. All of their tanks turned out to be cardboard in Ukraine.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Have you seen L2PL or K2 variants they just showed at Eurosatory?
            Those Poland won't get anytime soon?
            The entire issue isn't that it's impossible to redesign the K2 to add extra armor, it's that it has to be massively redesigned in the first place and you can't just slap it on.
            Russia doesn't redesign anything because they haven't really designed anything for 30 years.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >and you can't just slap it on

              You literally can. K2 already has side ERA that can be replaced with solid armor.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You literally can't.

                Going beyond 120mm makes no sense. You reduce your ammo by half. 120mm is enough for everything Russian and future is top attack ammo like KSTAM.

                Greater range + future proof for half a century and intelligent ammunition is easier with a higher caliber.
                There's a reason the frogs went for 140mm on the ascalon. The reason isn't really worth it and 130 should absolutely suffice unless we see a new armor revolution, but they didn't do it randomly.

                https://i.imgur.com/cQwmxXi.jpg

                You know that K2 turret already has space for extra side armor and APS right?

                Is that why polish tanks can't have it? Because it's so easy? If you just gotta bolt it on it should be a job of 2 weeks.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Are you just pretending to be retarded? Leo2 has 310mm on turret sides.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This shows it has a blow out panel. Does Hull stored ammunition really matter if the panels do their job?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No. All the Leo2 shitposting is also bullshit since newest 120mm ammo won't explode on penetration.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If it gets hit with a HEAT round could that detonate the ammo inside?

                The whole
                >hull stored ammo
                meme is overblown anyway.
                A tank hit to your hull will most likely kill everyone in your tank or end the tank anyway and western MANPADS either obliterate tanks from above or go the older PzF3 route of just ripping the entire tank apart despite being 40 years old. Armor hasn't made that much progress.
                The reason why people meme it so hard here is because Leotard has been shitposting about it for years and some butthurt tourists picked it up and thought he was actually making a point.

                I think you mean man portable atgms, but I generally agree, most of the tank kills from other tanks generally don't vaporize the tank because it's mostly APFSDS rounds to penetrate the vehicle. Top attack ATGMs though could prove me wrong because I've never seen one hit a western tank.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The whole
                >hull stored ammo
                meme is overblown anyway.
                A tank hit to your hull will most likely kill everyone in your tank or end the tank anyway and western MANPADS either obliterate tanks from above or go the older PzF3 route of just ripping the entire tank apart despite being 40 years old. Armor hasn't made that much progress.
                The reason why people meme it so hard here is because Leotard has been shitposting about it for years and some butthurt tourists picked it up and thought he was actually making a point.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Larger guns are for arty. Literally no reason to put them on tanks. You sacrifice too much for very little gain.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Experts disagree.

                https://i.imgur.com/CI7hgzV.png

                Are you just pretending to be retarded? Leo2 has 310mm on turret sides.

                Are you just bringing up random bullshit out of embarrassment now?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Experts disagree.

                Call me when 130mm tanks are in active service.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >future technology in development is bad because it's not being used right now
                >t. cavalry commander of the 1920s
                kek
                I like you, you're alright for a pole.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                China is not doing it. USA is not doing it. You only see 130 and 140mm guns on EU prototypes that will never go into mass production.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >China is not doing it.
                Nobody cares about China, none of their shit works.
                >USA is not doing it.
                Source?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The original K2PL, the one with 7 road-wheels, a new hull+turret structure and fully protected ammunition storage is not what Poland is buying as it (supposedly) wouldn't be ready in time. The K2PL is now the standard variant, upgraded with KAPS, extra side protection, an ammo datalink compatible with US rounds, and Systematic's battle management software.

                >Source?
                It's completely wrong, the army is working on a new tank with a larger main gun.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >It's completely wrong, the army is working on a new tank with a larger main gun.
                Bullshit, the honorable polack120mm shill has proven in multiple threads now that he is infallible.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >fully protected ammunition storage
                I still dont understand what this is supposed to mean, or even where this "spec" started

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >triangular barrel
                WE FUTURE NOW

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You know that K2 turret already has space for extra side armor and APS right?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      3 posters in this thread, anon.
      How many Germans are currently in your room with you?
      Get over yourself and your obsession.

      Fuck off, klaus, no one's buying your over priced trash

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    G*rm shills appropriating content from genuine PrepHole discussions for their spam purposes.
    Keep going, you're only making everyone hate you more.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      3 posters in this thread, anon.
      How many Germans are currently in your room with you?
      Get over yourself and your obsession.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >How many Germans are currently in your room with you?
        3 in my basement

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kraut bros... I don't feel so good...

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous
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        Anonymous
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          Anonymous
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            Anonymous
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              Anonymous
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                Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >turkey can't fight and loses all leopards
      >somehow it's Germans fault

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        [...]

        But turks are german, remember?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ironically, there is quite a lot more Russian (and German) blood in Poland than the other way around due to a millenium of conquest and colonization from both sides.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            lol everyone east of so-called Elbe is already slavic genetically since the original migration

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Sorbs literally only exist in a tiny village as a microminority at this point, anon.
              Sorry bro, you got genocided.
              Meanwhile in the last 1000 years poland was continually divided between the surrounding powers, raped by Russians and colonized by Germans (you're welcome).

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                they live on, unfortunately in a lesser germanized form

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >anon doesn't understand haplogroups
                Behold.
                Poles are Russian Pakistanis.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/i7B8M42.png

                they live on, unfortunately in a lesser germanized form

                Actually they are crypto Ukranians and Bandera was right.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >pakistanis
                >not in pakistan
                >overlap perfectly with indo-aryan populations in India
                Have you seen a political map before? Germoids on their "aryan" larp should have been gassing themselves to make space for us lol

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >actually we're not pakistanis (who are literally just muslim currymorons), we're regular currymorons 🙂
                And no, that is in Pakistan you brainlet. Learn some geography.
                >b-b-but it's also in india!
                Very impressive.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                cope germoid, Polish-Indian commonwealth superpower by 2040

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Almost 70% of the residents from East Prussia have slav ancestry, they're basically germanified polacks.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              East prussia has been part of Russia for nearly 80 years and most Germans fled from there.
              What a weird thing to say.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I mean the original german nationals, also there's a heavy slav pheontotype among east germans.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I mean the original german nationals,
                Oh yeah most slavs there got assimilated, Germans are good at both genocide and Germanification through other means. Bit of a tragedy hat Stalin's genocide propaganda is so widespread among slavs nowadays.
                >also there's a heavy slav pheontotype among east germans.
                That ain't true from what I've seen though.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Now all I’m saying is that the abrams and T-90 have less casualties even when being monkey models

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's amazing how the leotard gets triggered instantly and almost guarantee.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm sorry Anon. Poland has been memed once again. The supposed soon-to-be "greatest army in Europe" will be a fucking joke because people in power decided to take the easy route. As usual, the biggest enemy of Poles is not Russians or Germans but their own greed, incompetence and corruption.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Poles are pathetic corrupt slavoids
      More at 10

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No it isn't be weary of the German keyboard warriors and Russian trolls, the Polish variant will be very different from the Norwegian one. For one, KATS will be used as well as a 7th pair of wheels.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >source: my ass

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Watch the interview chud.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      KATS?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He probably meant KAPS (korean active protection system). Basically korean Trophy.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          KAPS is like ancient shit these days, wonder why the Poles would want that over something like Trophy or Iron Fist (which the K2NO will come with)

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not sure but I read somewhere that APS will be different than standard one.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    But part of the deal is technology transfer and K2PL production in Poland AND co-design of K3.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Shhhh that doesn't fit his shill post narrative

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      tell us about it, the op doesn't know, he's not a shill

      The more I see kraut shenanigans like this the more I think it was a right decision.

      this might be though, I've noticed these weird wojack demon, and I don't recognize it except from this 4chan shit flinging.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The first 180 tanks will be regular K2/K2NO type of tanks, the rest will be up to the K2PL standard.
    Or in other words, cry is free.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What does it matter, they will never get used in a real world scenario anyway.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The more I see kraut shenanigans like this the more I think it was a right decision.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's not actual Germans, you dingus.
      80% of Germans either don't care or wish you all the best (militarily and economically).
      Most of these threads are made by vatniks so they can larp out about how much Germans and Poles hate each other while screaming about the inferiority of Korean, German and Polish weapons.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Most of these threads are made by vatniks so they can larp out about how much Germans and Poles hate each other while screaming about the inferiority of Korean, German and Polish weapons.
        This
        Same case as with the shitload of Poland-Ukraine threads we had here

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      why can't krauts admit that they hate Poland and already signed ribentrop-molotov 2.0

      why can't poles admit that they hate Germany

      >le kraut poles shitfling
      What happened, did something get deleted? Isn't this thread just about poland and the K2? What's going on?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Poles think every post that could potentially be seen in any other light than a positive one has to be made by a vatnik or a German.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    wheres the ammo stored on the k2? someone got a pic?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >wheres the ammo stored on the k2?
      Hull.

      why can't krauts admit that they hate Poland and already signed ribentrop-molotov 2.0

      Germans don't really care about Poland. Like 99% of Germans literally never think about you at all.
      20 years ago you stole A LOT of cars, but since then nothing really new has come up in the German Zeitgeist to direct any attention at poles. This astroturfed conflict on PrepHole is just a results of butthurt autist tourists spamming the board and sorry to say but it too is really one-sided.

      why can't poles admit that they hate Germany

      They do lmao, we just never hear about it.

      It's not actual Germans, you dingus.
      80% of Germans either don't care or wish you all the best (militarily and economically).
      Most of these threads are made by vatniks so they can larp out about how much Germans and Poles hate each other while screaming about the inferiority of Korean, German and Polish weapons.

      They won't understand, anon. Polish culture is heavily influenced by their media and parties making Germans their second favourite boogeyman in regards to foreign relations. It's perfectly natural for them to assume such strong feelings are natural.
      Kinda like how we have that football rivalry with the dutch but brits actually believe we have one with them because they care so much about theirs with us.

      So why whould the Norwegian version be poorly suited to Poland's needs, exactly?

      Entirely different terrain. Grand strategy players are probably the only non-norwegians who realize who extremely mountainous Norway is. That basically means that you'll see very far and engage enemiesfrom very far away from the front. The contested region in korea is similar. That's why the K2 has ashitton of armor on the front and basically nothing anywhere else. For Korean (and coincidentally norwegian) purposes, it really doesn't need anything else.

      >It's a vatnik talking point, nothing else.
      exactly my point, i didn't notice any PiS politician saying anything about 2A7 publically. We wanted 2A4 and germoney offered leopard 1 ffs

      >We wanted 2A4 and germoney offered leopard 1 ffs
      You were offered 2A4s, just like the czechs. You just didn't like the timetable for the free 2A4s, so asanalternative Leopard1s (perfectly usable as TDs and mobile gun platforms against Russians even now) and Marders were offered.
      No idea why the Marders are always left out. I'd have taken the deal, traded the Leo1s away to some other country and kept the Marders.
      It's free shit, there's 0 reason not to accept free shit. Worst case they rot in some warehouse somewhere, but Marders are still good.
      No idea why Marders are always left out.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >It's perfectly natural for them to assume such strong feelings are natural.
        *mutual

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >It's free shit, there's 0 reason not to accept free shit.
        lol it never is, there's always something
        seriously fuck leo1, we're buying k2, you keep your 2a4 and 2a7 and we both will be happy.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What's wrong with Marders?

          Why are Germans always terminally ESL? I thought they were supposed to have -good- public education?

          Maybe your English just isn't up to par on colloquial speech.

          >t's free shit, there's 0 reason not to accept free shit.
          why u r ignoring the facts that maintenance, ammunition, training, storage, the warehouse you mentioned, parts, the repairs personnel etc. all that shit piles up to a mountain of expenses for what basically is a t72 equivalent that pollacks finally want to get rid off for good??
          they send their t72s to ukraine, germans gift them leos 1 and they are back to square one if not even in the worse position because their military and industry has no experience with leos 1 at all.

          So either use the Leo1s as mobile gun platforms, sell or trade them further, or, refuse the Leo1s and keep the Marders.
          Not taking free Marders just seems retarded.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Jesus Christ you're bad at this. Grab an Oxford dictionary already.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >anon's English is so bad he doesn't understand simple sentences
              Lmao
              Next you'll tell me you're a brit like that doesn't make you look worse.
              Go ahead

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                https://www.merriam-webster.com/

                It's free.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Maybe you should work on your grammar before you get uppity about a leftist propaganda institution like MW.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >incoherent ESL screeching

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >incoherent
                Kek, learn English

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                https://www.merriam-webster.com/

                It's free.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                https://www.merriam-webster.com/

                It's free.

                Discord chud detected

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                4chan tourist

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I've been here since 2011, PrepHole never liked chuds. PrepHole didn't particularly dislike them either, until you abominations became the spearhead of leftist social propaganda.
                >inb4 PrepHole was always leftist!
                Lmao
                You will never be a real woman.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >No idea why Marders are always left out.
        Because most poles who pretend the alternative offer of older equipment being sent much faster since they indicated speed is more important than quality have literally never heard of Marders being part of the deal.
        Whatever the polish equivalent of yellow press is is doing a really good job at manipulating them with selective information.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why are Germans always terminally ESL? I thought they were supposed to have -good- public education?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          His English was fine retard. Germans almost always speak great English.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >t's free shit, there's 0 reason not to accept free shit.
        why u r ignoring the facts that maintenance, ammunition, training, storage, the warehouse you mentioned, parts, the repairs personnel etc. all that shit piles up to a mountain of expenses for what basically is a t72 equivalent that pollacks finally want to get rid off for good??
        they send their t72s to ukraine, germans gift them leos 1 and they are back to square one if not even in the worse position because their military and industry has no experience with leos 1 at all.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >germans don't really care about Poland.
        if that's the case, why are there german claim to Silesia, masuria and parts of greater Poland, as well as anti Polish rethroric spewed by AfD and NPD
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Polish_sentiment#Germany

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >why are there german claim to Silesia, masuria and parts of greater Poland
          All of these claims have been renounced and never been talked of since. (But if you ask why those claims ever existed - it's because that was german territory that was given to poland. You are aware of the history I presume?)
          >anti Polish rethroric spewed by AfD and NPD
          German anti-polish rethoric is spewed by fringe parties that are considered ineligible for coalition by all other parties. Polish anti-german rethoric is spewed by the polish government itself.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In the hull you have 23 rounds stored next to the driver (he sits on the right side), and in the turret you have a 16-round autoloader and 1 ready-round mounted on the turret basket behind the commander.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    why can't krauts admit that they hate Poland and already signed ribentrop-molotov 2.0

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      why can't poles admit that they hate Germany

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Do they ever hide that fact?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          We don't hate Germans anymore. We just kind of roll our eyes when they're mentioned

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Until the next time they kill 20% of your country's population you mean.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              We've fought off the Ottomans before.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >we
                Centuries ago, and you came at the end.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >why can't poles admit that they hate Germany
        we admit that openly lol, even pro-german parties hate you now for all the bullshit surrounding ukraine-russian war

        https://i.imgur.com/qoCqzgS.jpg

        Tell me this isn't true and the PiStards haven't fucked up the next 40 years of polish tank divisions.
        Lie to me if you have to.

        that's not true, it's just german tears

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Random reddit post is really reliable

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    german diaspora mad again, many such cases!

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >krauts give out a vague promise about tank delivery
    >polack military officials see the offer and basically say it doesn't really fit them, so whatever
    >PiS tries to ride the anti-kraut hate train and says some bollock about newest leopard variants, even when their military officials talked about 2A4's
    >krauts reiterate their offer, both sides grumble, but it's put behind, PiS are retarded, krauts look pathetic but aren't really retarded
    >...
    >poles do a deal with Koreans
    >suddenly both KWM and krauts chimp out, give out a new, even worse offer
    >PiS obviously uses it to shit on krauts
    >water muddied so much the Ganges looks like a norwegian lagoon
    Jesus Christ, just let Poles have their Korean tanks and realize it's in PiS's interests to shit on krauts. Most polacks and krauts either don't care about or like each other. And maybe KWM could actually look into their production capacity so any potential order wouldn't have to wait 20 years for 100 tanks.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >PiS tries to ride the anti-kraut hate train and says some bollock about newest leopard variants, even when their military officials talked about 2A4's
      can you please source that claim? I don't recall that happening.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It was the well talked shit about Germany not being able to deliver Leopard 2A7's https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/05/24/poland-accuses-germany-of-reneging-on-promise-to-provide-tanks-to-replace-those-given-to-ukraine/

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I read the article and nobody referenced the 2A7 lol. Not Duda nor Morawiecki or Błaszczak.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's a vatnik talking point, nothing else.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >It's a vatnik talking point, nothing else.
              exactly my point, i didn't notice any PiS politician saying anything about 2A7 publically. We wanted 2A4 and germoney offered leopard 1 ffs

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >look into their production capacity so any potential order wouldn't have to wait 20 years for 100 tanks.
      my bro, that's not very lean, JIT or six-sigma from you

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    When krauts and vatniks crying and bitching together, then you can be sure at your decision are right. Every European country know this. kek

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    None except tank fanboys care. It's doubtful that many tanks will actually be procured, it is even more doubtful they will ever be used in anger, and it is absolutely impossible minor disadvantages like that will impact a war against russia if they were.
    That said, this procurement does seem like a hasty decision and it is absolutely possible they made errors like that.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Polish politicians and industry officials are just a bunch of loud mouthed memelords with little funds to back up their talk, can't even extend their license to produce Rosomaks cause they're trying to garden gnome the Finns too hard, wanted a "special" Leo2PL variant, then end up not upgrading most of their A4s cause that would have cost money
    Can't wait for the next episodes of PROCUREMENT by Grzegorz

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So why whould the Norwegian version be poorly suited to Poland's needs, exactly?

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Pretty much. It's unfortunate the germ simps are shitting up every tank thread with their unhinged shilling though, European tanks have mostly the same issues as K2. The right choice for geographically mostly flat countries right now is to either wait for the proposed K2 redesign or just buy the fucking Abrams already.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It's unfortunate the germ simps are shitting up every tank thread with their unhinged shilling
      Anon, we literally can't have tank or WWII threads anymore because of seething tourists. And those aren't German. 2 poles in particular sperg out in ever WWII thread about "fascists" nowadays (I suspect one of them to be a vatmoron though).
      The recent influx in newfriends is very heavily polish, due to the attention given to polish purchases and contributions in the war and4chan having a civil war going on so PrepHole is a lot more comfy for them. I don't blame them for rather being here, I prefer being here too, but let's not pretend that the new posters who came here with the war are "German shills" who ruin all the threads now. That shit's mostly caused by poles and vatmorons who treatPrepHole like 4chan.
      I know you probably weren't around a few years ago when the threads were calmer, but WWII threads used to mostly be
      >vatniks vs Americans on lend-lease
      >Germans and German gear connoisseurs vs vatniks
      >brits vs everybody else
      >frogs arguing with brits about stuff that never had that much of a connection with WWII
      >vatniks being delusional about t34s
      >wehraboos being delusional about tigers
      >Shermans compared to every other tank
      Can't speak for navy threads, either way, Polabd was never much of a concern.
      Nowadays every WWII thread degenerates into4chan shitflinging centered around polish tourists pretty much immediately.
      Don't worry, it'll end and most oldfags don't blame the 3 polish posters we had before since we've been through a couple waves like that with other countries, but let's not distort the facts here.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nah it's the germaboos. Especially since the plastic turret Panther teaser was released.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I see, I shouldn't have tried to hold a reasonable conversation with you. Maybe you'll understand in a few years when this conflict dies down.

          >germans don't really care about Poland.
          if that's the case, why are there german claim to Silesia, masuria and parts of greater Poland, as well as anti Polish rethroric spewed by AfD and NPD
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Polish_sentiment#Germany

          Most Germans have quite literally never heard about most of that. The same isn't true for Poland.
          Also your link backs up literary none if your claims.
          The AfD and NPD also don't care about poles in the slightest, plenty if their voters ARE polish, lmao
          I don't wanna be a dick, but did somebody actually tell you these things or did you just blindly assume they were true?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >NPD also don't care about poles in the slightest,
            >In 2009, the NPD hung anti-Polish posters with slogan "Polen-Invasion Stoppen" ("Stop the Polish invasion") in Dresden and Görlitz. Mayor of Görlitz and then Chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel, condemned that posters.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >oh no a party nobody votes for hung up posters once 13 years ago when millions of poles flooded Germany
              >Germans MUST hate poles!
              You'd think they'd have gotten a lot more votes in 2009 then, but they aren't even represented in parliament and the entire party is unironically a honey pot set up by our glowies.
              That's not a conspiracy theory either, it's pretty widely known, hence why other parties have popped up on the far right in the last decades.
              Now all of that aside, it doesn't confirm your claim or any of your others, but I'm willing to believe that you didn't lie and actually believe that shit.
              So take some time to ask yourself why your image of Germans is so distorted that you talk about claims of land and mass German hatred of poles while posting a wikipedia link that doesn't even mention anything you did.
              If you're not a vatnik falseflagging, you're obsessed with a country that doesn't care about you. Normalize your relationship with your surrounding world, anon.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >millions of poles flood Britain
              >UKIP soars and brits leave the EU
              >millions of poles flood Germany
              >nobody cares and poles are well integrated into German society
              Huh?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                those who emigrated to germany were already on Volksliste

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                So Germany got the good poles while Britain got the shitty ones?
                I always explained poles statistically being the foremost racemixers in Britain due to a mix of massive british propaganda for the youth in a foreign environment already surrounded by new norms and a general rejection by the rest of society. Since polish girls have a reputation in Germany for being kinda slutty but NOT for racemixing in particular as far as I know and while the racemixing propaganda is much weaker in Germany, the biggest difference always seemed to be that poles were much better integrated here. Most second generation poles don't even speak polish, the third generation usually isn't even consciously aware of having polish blood at all.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on that one
                Many come over here without any prior connection to Germany whatsoever and still do fine
                t: worked with them

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shut the fuck up with the Poland vs. Germany sperging
    I want to know if the thing in OP is true and if it can be mitigated if true

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It is true but it can be mitigated, it'll just take negotiations, a lot of money and time to retrofit the tanks for Polish use.
      The real problem is that in the current euphoria nobody thinks about it and the earlier people do the earlier it can be solved and the more damage can be avoided in the long tun.
      Tldnr: Yes, yes, write your local representative about it so he brings it up in parliament.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How about Lithuania vs Germany?
      >http://www.technologijos.lt/n/technologijos/karyba/S-103652/straipsnis/Kas-is-tikruju-vyksta-su-Boxer-pirkome-Vilkus-o-gavome-kate-maise-ir-galime-tai-dar-karta-pakartoti
      >also Czechia + Australia vs the Lynx boondoggle
      German arms industry appears not to have its shit together at all right now. Prudent procurers would ignore German AFV offers for the next 5-10 years and see if the manufacturers unfuck themselves.

      >if it can be mitigated if true
      Yes but not completely. Composite modules can be swapped for better ones but they can't easily be made much thicker or heavier, which is always the surest and simplest way of increasing armor protection. It probably won't be possible to add significant composite armor to the sides and strengthen the existing weaker spots by a lot as the chassis was never designed for it. Some of these weak areas that can only be addressed by designing a new K2 variant.
      The 'improved K2' project would have eliminated most of the flaws of the original version but that proposal was abandoned. I marked some of the proposed changes to the turret on the pic.
      There would be significant changes to the hull as well with a slightly stretched chassis, expanded front armor, tread configuration adjusted to support increased size and weight by adding a 7th pair of road wheels, and with all hull-stored ammunition moved to a fully isolated magazine.
      The improved variant concept lives on as a notional base for a future 'K3' but I think it's unlikely that's going to go anywhere soon, now that almost 1000 brand new tanks based on the current K2 chassis will be produced.
      IMO if the original K2PL was produced it would have been one of two by far best contemporary MBT's together with the Abrams SEPv3/v4. As it is right now the latest K2 will be only a slightly less shitty choice than the latest Leopard 2.
      You be the judge if 'less shitty' is going to translate to 'good enough' in the current and future environment.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >How about Lithuania
        Lithuania is a polish colony and rightful polish clay.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >all hull-stored ammunition moved to a fully isolated magazine.
        ?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >but they can't easily be made much thicker or heavier, which is always the surest and simplest way of increasing armor protection

        But that is exactly what happened to Abrams and Leopard 2 over the years? Abrams went from 54 ton to 68 ton.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Both abrams and Leopard2 were designed with expansion, particularly in weight since by then engineers had learned that the weight always increases, from the outset.
          The Korean K2 had a hard limit set around its max weight based on the many bridges in the country and was specialized around long range frontal-only combat in their mountanous northern terrain, so they minmaxed the fuck out of that.
          The result is a great tank for Korea but not one that can be easily adapted for foreign battlefields and their attempt to do so with
          a grand redesign mostly went nowhere so now Poland gets the classic version with modernization upgrades and minor improvements.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The current K2 suspension can go up to 65 tons, but that probably impacts the actual mobility enough to warrant an extra set of roadwheels.
            K2-NO uparmored to meet their protection requirement tops out at about 62 tons, which still leaves some growth potential.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Source: voices in your head.

              >korean gearbox doesn't even work right now so they have to buy German gearboxes
              >native korean solution is announced for "some point in the future"
              >hey guys, LET'S INCREASE THE WEIGHT
              lmao

              https://i.imgur.com/JvDzWA5.jpg

              Abrams is like 15 ton heavier today than it used to be at the beginning. And it still uses the same 1500hp engine because it always had excess power. Same is true for every modern western MBT. Same is true for K2.

              It's never been about the engine. Newmorons need to just leave already, this is getting embarrassing.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >muh gearbox
                Kek, i love how people bring up that, along with the gun somehow being a licensed Rheinmetall-gun.
                Do you know the actual issue with the gearbox? And why they keep rejecting the korean version?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Man, I love how retards move the goalpost when they have no idea what they're talking about.
                >just make the k2 heavier, the abrams did it too!
                >tanks are interchangeable, anon!

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                wtf are you talking about, anon? I pointed out that the current 56 ton Korean version is not the structural limit to the K2, as the ones being offered to Norway is upped towards 62 tons without changing the suspension. 56 tons is not a design-limit of the K2, you would know this if you had any first-hand experience with it (or the Leopard, for that matter)

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Who asked?
                >b-b-but you said gearboxes
                Correct, Koreans obviously didn't prepare for the weight upgrade and the original K3 concept fell through.

                You just said it doesn't work, and I showed you a perfectly working powertrain. The reason why it wasn't adopted in the first place is because the Korean military regulation of running 9600km without any malfunction is too hazardous even for German gearboxes to pass. But nonetheless, they're given amnesty for being in service prior to it.

                >You just said it doesn't work, and I showed you a perfectly working powertrain.
                You posted a picture of a powertrain not yet in use.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >if I keep insist on things that I want to believe it will become true
                Yeah, no shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >if vatniks post pics of the armata that emans they have a fleet of them

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                gearbox doesn't even work right now so they have to buy German gearboxes
                Not true, SNT dynamics, the company which is responsible for the development and production of the indigenous gear ox has declared that the full localization process is complete and there is no more german components inside, it is currently under test by the Turks for the use in Altay's main powerpack.
                https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/content/korean-powerpack-starts-the-test-campaign-on-the-altay-mbt-5124

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >not in production
                >will be "at some point in the future"
                >currently being tested
                Remember Ajax?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You just said it doesn't work, and I showed you a perfectly working powertrain. The reason why it wasn't adopted in the first place is because the Korean military regulation of running 9600km without any malfunction is too hazardous even for German gearboxes to pass. But nonetheless, they're given amnesty for being in service prior to it.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Even their previous version, which was deemed as faulty at the time, had a track record of driving 7110km without any flaws(until a connector pin from a german made component tear off), which ultimately couldn't meet the army requirement of 9600km. Even then it was granted as good as 'deployable' for other countries. Btw the much touted German renk gearbox neither had failed to pass the same test, but it was grandfathered by the DAPA because it had seen previous services in other countries. Wonderful, isn't it?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Source: voices in your head.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Abrams is like 15 ton heavier today than it used to be at the beginning. And it still uses the same 1500hp engine because it always had excess power. Same is true for every modern western MBT. Same is true for K2.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Leopard2 were designed with expansion
            It wasn't, which bit the krauts in the ass. Leopard 2A4 is where the original Leopard 2 hull hit a hard weight limit. It's literally impossible to put any more weight on it due to unfortunately designed torsion bar suspension. For this reason the A5 and later versions have different, newly built hulls that can be fitted with suitable suspension. This is why a Leopard 2A4 and earlier versions can't be modernized to A5 standard and above. They have to rely on simpler, lighter upgrades.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Weird headcanon you invented there.
              >This is why a Leopard 2A4 and earlier versions can't be modernized to A5 standard and above.
              That one was funny considering how many 2A4s have been upgraded over the years.

              This purchase literally saved the next 40 years of Polish mechanized divisions. It's not about the performance of the tank, it's about having a NATO-spec machine with an autoloader and a 3-man crew in a country that doesn't have the best demographics and wants to field 6 divisions. Even if K2 is slightly less effective than its German counterpart (which is fucking doubtful because German tanks are either outdated or vaporware/not produced in sufficient numbers), it's still good enough and you can crew more of them.

              Same thing applies to K9 vs Krab or Pzh2000. Koreans are facing similar demographic issues and the solution we can implement here is more mechanization.

              When this Korean equipment gets introduced and becomes the standard, we'll be ahead of the curve when compared with any European country because we'll be the only nation that's actually realistic about manpower.

              If you don't believe me, look up how many new Leopard 2s Germany actually has. The numbers are pathetic even if you include 2A5s.

              On top of that, Western Euros have made it impossible to work with them because they turned out to be completely unreliable. Just incredibly shitty partners who don't fulfill their contracts and then try to cover it up in the infosphere by pretending we want their shit for free because it reinforces a harmful stereotype about Poles.

              Well, guess what, you might trick some dumbass Westerners, but you won't get any more of our business. And when you finally snap out of it, we'll already have decent experience when it comes to manufacturing equipment that doesn't require 80s-sized crews and is a great match for a demographically-shrunk Europe that doesn't have any experience in this field.

              So my answer to all the seething Germans here is: you've made your bed in more ways than one, now get replaced, gays. And when you try again, maybe refrain from abusing your customers.

              >we'll be ahead of the curve
              Kf51 (first fourth generation tank) will start mass production before the Polish 3rd generation tank goes into production.
              The rest of your post doesn't seem worth reading. Stop reddit spacing for attention.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why lie?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why lie?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Kf51 (first fourth generation tank) will start mass production before the Polish 3rd generation tank goes into production.

                Of course it will, especially with your industry imploding because of your shitty macroeconomic decisions spanning about 30 years. I already adressed that, your shit is vaporware, and even if it exists, it's produced in insufficient quantities, and on top of that, it's ill-suited for our continent because you're still stuck in the 80s with your design philosophy. In the end your tank will be 20% more efficient if it works as advertised (doubtful), but you'll end up fielding a fucking brigade of them, and that's me being wildly optimistic about your future prospects.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >no u
                >it can't be true :~~*((
                >pls :~~*(
                kek
                the funniest part was
                > it's ill-suited for our continent
                When poles literally get tanks specialized for korean mountain ranges.
                Poland is flat, anon. Enjoy getting your sides penetrated by RPGs from the 60s.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >kek

                I never said "it can't be true", I readily admitted that your shit might be slightly more effective if delivered as promised (something your defense industry has a serious problem with), I just casted doubt on your manufacturing capabilities based on both recent performance and a general macroeconomic trend. You're stuck in the past.

                >When poles literally get tanks specialized for korean mountain ranges.
                Poland is flat, anon. Enjoy getting your sides penetrated by RPGs from the 60s.

                And how are those tanks supposed to get flanked on a transparent, drone-filled battlefield? And how is this RPG even supposed to score a hit through an APS? And why would our tanks even be advancing into infantry when we're building a defensive army?

                And on top of all that, it's not even like Leo1 and Leo2 were vehicles emphasizing hull protection. In fact, Leo1 had no armor to speak of, and Leo2 has a well-armored turret and that's it. So it's very similar to K2 in that regard.

                In fact, your little "it can't be true" snap is likely projection, because you can't address any of the points I made - all you can do is incessant yapping about supposed German technological superiority, which turned into a meme sometime in the 00s. Your country is a mere shadow of 80s Germany, which is why we're no longer interested in buying your shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Enjoy getting your sides penetrated by RPGs from the 60s.
                Do you have any sources to prove it? Because

                https://i.imgur.com/CI7hgzV.png

                Are you just pretending to be retarded? Leo2 has 310mm on turret sides.

                doesn't appear to be.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                ->

                https://i.imgur.com/rk2NZFJ.jpg

                PiS haven't fucked up the next 40 years of armored divisions.
                The sky is green.
                Russians are civilised.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                tldnr
                You know, redditspacing is a thing there to make your post look larger and get more attention and upvotes.
                It doesn't work on PrepHole. It just makes people not want to read your shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, it's better to write your posts like it's some retarded stream of consciousness. You're just seething right now, and your best argument is bitching about my post formatting, which has nothing to do with reddit and everything to do with sticking to one idea/argument per paragraph.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Yeah, it's better to write your posts like it's some retarded stream of consciousness.
                >you either have to do no formatting at all or do it like an attentionwhoring redditor

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's all in your head. You actually seem to be mentally ill, no sane person would notice or care about this shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >redditor doesn't understand why people dislike redditors
                Peak.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Peak what? You're fucking retarded. Pretty much "everyone I don't like is a Russian spy" meme, but with reddit. A shitty site populated by nothing but bots, living rent free in your head and overtaking discussions that have nothing to do with it.

                You're pretty disgusting, it really shows, and you probably know it.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                anon

                it

                is

                time

                to

                stop

                posting

                really

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Peak what? You're fucking retarded. Pretty much "everyone I don't like is a Russian spy" meme, but with reddit. A shitty site populated by nothing but bots, living rent free in your head and overtaking discussions that have nothing to do with it.

                You're pretty disgusting, it really shows, and you probably know it.

                >Peak what?
                Peak reddit, newmoron.
                > Pretty much "everyone I don't like is a Russian spy" meme, but with reddit. A shitty site populated by nothing but bots, living rent free in your head and overtaking discussions that have nothing to do with it.
                >You're pretty disgusting, it really shows, and you probably know it.
                Seethe

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Even German army is not ordering Kf51. Nobody is.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The Kf51 isn't part of any trials yet and only exists in prototypes.
                Why shitpost when you could just be quiet?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                See you in 10 years. Nobody is going to order them. Way too expensive, 20 rounds for main gun is a joke and the only possible enemy (Russia) is using trash that even L2A4 is going to rape. Meanwhile Leo2 sales will also nosedive since it's losing to K2 everywhere.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Isn't KF51 just a concept so far and there is not even any production date set for that project? Saying that "KF21 will go into production soon" is just pure speculation currently.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Isn't KF51 just a concept so far
                No. Prototype stage.
                >there is not even any production date set for that project?
                2026 if nothing happens to speed it up is the official announcement.
                >Saying that "KF21 will go into production soon" is just pure speculation currently.
                You could have figured out that you're wrong with a simple google search, anon. Don't be like this. I know you can be better.

                See you in 10 years. Nobody is going to order them. Way too expensive, 20 rounds for main gun is a joke and the only possible enemy (Russia) is using trash that even L2A4 is going to rape. Meanwhile Leo2 sales will also nosedive since it's losing to K2 everywhere.

                Less than 4.
                >Nobody is going to order them. Way too expensive
                Really? What's the price?
                > 20 rounds for main gun is a joke
                20 rounds in the ready rack, not 20 overall you tardlet. The amount of stored rounds depends on how many optional subsystems the customer goes for.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Are you blind or something? A4 hull looks obviously different than A5 hull. A4 upgrades always improve the turret not the hull because you can do literally nothing with it.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >A4 hull looks obviously different than A5 hull
                In what way? Outside of the front external armor and the new drivers hatch?

            • 2 weeks ago
              T-I-G-E-R-S

              Weird,l, I've been certain its the Leo2 turret an absolute bitch to upgrade, hence the wedges instead of armor packages.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think anon confused the Leo1 with the Leo2 and then threw in some random shit to justify his headcanon after the fact.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The turret is another story. After A4 the limits of the default suspension was the most pressing issue.

                I think anon confused the Leo1 with the Leo2 and then threw in some random shit to justify his headcanon after the fact.

                So sad and clueless.

              • 2 weeks ago
                T-I-G-E-R-S

                >After A4 the limits of the default suspension was the most pressing issue.
                I was certain it was the Composition C, according to Żądło.
                https://www.konflikty.pl/technika-wojskowa/na-ladzie/program-wilk-nowy-polski-czolg/

                >The hulls of these tanks, on the other hand, are covered by older inserts called Composition C, implemented in 1988. In addition to the Leopard 2A5s, this cover is also present in the older Leopard 2A4s that received them in the late 1980s and early 1990s, as new armor inserts. . >Composition C is not the best solution as far as the level of protection is concerned. While in terms of protection against HEAT projectiles, it offers resistance at the level of 800-850 millimeters of RHAe, which is sufficient to protect against the 9К115-1 Mietis-M ATGM and PG-29W grenades, the protection against kinetic projectiles at the level of 420 millimeters of RHA is insufficient even for the 3BM44 Mango APFSDS penetrators aging from the second half of the 1980s, which are the basic type of anti-tank ammunition in the unmodified T-72B and even older T-72A tanks. Composition D looks a bit better: it offers resistance to kinetic projectiles at the level of about 600 millimeters RHA, which, in combination with the wedges mounted at the front of the turret, may allow for protection against 3BM60 Swiniec-2 APFSDS rounds under favorable conditions. In the case of the Leopard 2A4s, survivability may be improved by upgrading to the Leopard 2PL standard.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's both. Leo2 is a mess.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >For this reason the A5 and later versions have different, newly built hulls that can be fitted with suitable suspensio
              Wait, what? The only changes between an A4-hull and the never ones are bigger torsion bars, more end-stops and the new final drives with MLC-80 brakes.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Bottom picture is the same core turret just with more armor slapped on it. You literally see where they added more armor.

      • 2 weeks ago
        T-I-G-E-R-S

        >German arms industry appears not to have its shit together at all right now. Prudent procurers would ignore German AFV offers for the next 5-10 years and see if the manufacturers unfuck themselves.
        A pity, however it's not a current issue. Turns out even the PZH 2000 has an literal Day 0 bug, well known to both KMW and Bundeswehr... Yet unresolved for 25 years.
        https://vxtwitter.com/AlexLuck9/status/1553126805212905472?s=20&t=tokS02dpSduXOVA0V18mnQ

        TL;Dr - the shell drops a bit every time is loaded, resulting with less chamber volume, resulting extra pressure, resulting extra fast wear and crack.

        I was monitoring what our MOD said these past days and here is the final answer: original K2PL (with 7 wheels, rebuilt turret, more armor and isolated ammo storage) that was presented to Poland in 2019 was just a concept without any actual technical details and Korea said from the start in 2019 if we were to go with it they would need many years to actually re-design the K2 to proposed K2PL even with option to mount 130mm or 140mm gun. Our MOD was stalling for all these years since 2019 without taking any decision but now with war and all of our soviet tanks going to Ukraine they were forced to chose next tank for the army. And it looks like that instead waiting many years for Korea to actually technically design original K2PL the "new" version of K2PL will be actually somethin closer to K2NO proposed to Norway, so instead of completely redesign only replacing some electronic with Polish ones, adding more external block armor on the sides and more reactive armor. They chosen that way because of time and need for quick deliveries and in defense our MOD also said that we will take active part in development of next generation tank with Korea and that future tank will actually have previously wanted isolated ammo storage, more armor and all that stuff with 130 or 140mm gun.

        Imagine the K2PL /Abrams covered with ERAWA tiles, tight as an anime pussy

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Abrams covered with ERAWA tiles

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >TL;Dr
          A literal redditor who is a living parody of a soijack uses lots of comic words to describe his marvel fantasy without a source.
          If you're wondering why it looks retarded in the translated version it's because he throws in words like
          >kapow!
          everywhere.
          And cease the namegayry you're not on /int/.

          • 2 weeks ago
            T-I-G-E-R-S

            Whatever

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    get fucked polacks

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    K2NO is a great variant and can be easily upgraded with more armor. Ammo cookoff is not a problem with modern ammunition. It's only a problem for russian trash.

    Cope harder Hans from Berlin oblast. Those K2 will be enough to rape everything russian for next 60 years.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What do we call the polish equivalent of a vatnik?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Keep crying. K2 shits all over Leopard 2 and has more upgrade potential than Abrams.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          K2 is a developmental dead-end already and will enter production in Europe after the Kf51.
          Chasses matter.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >muh KF51

            Nobody will even buy it.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >filled with matured system tested seperately and succesfully in other vehicles
              >best tank the world has seen at this point
              >highly adjustable to the preferences of any nation
              >F U T U R E P R O O F
              It'll be a hit, polish butthurt is a uniquely polish phenomenon, anon.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Going beyond 120mm makes no sense. You reduce your ammo by half. 120mm is enough for everything Russian and future is top attack ammo like KSTAM.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        siemka

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Wouldn't bye be a better response to them?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          ELO

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The version in your pic isnt really representative of the NO version tho. Its an early-batch ROK K2 in norwegian camo with a mockup APS in place of their current softkill. The offered version looks a bit more like the K2PL with ad-on ERA and increased weight of 60+ tonnes.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That dude is just spewing bullshit they all use the same turret. Extra armor is just bolted on.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Also NO variant already has extra armor under ERA.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No? The vehicles that went to norway was literally bog-standard, batch 1 ROK vehicles in nor paint.
            They were not representative of the offered version.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Well the poles can't afford the proper version so they have to take what they get.

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/status/1553711648992624640
    This guy is officially, once and for all, fully confirmed as a clown.

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I was monitoring what our MOD said these past days and here is the final answer: original K2PL (with 7 wheels, rebuilt turret, more armor and isolated ammo storage) that was presented to Poland in 2019 was just a concept without any actual technical details and Korea said from the start in 2019 if we were to go with it they would need many years to actually re-design the K2 to proposed K2PL even with option to mount 130mm or 140mm gun. Our MOD was stalling for all these years since 2019 without taking any decision but now with war and all of our soviet tanks going to Ukraine they were forced to chose next tank for the army. And it looks like that instead waiting many years for Korea to actually technically design original K2PL the "new" version of K2PL will be actually somethin closer to K2NO proposed to Norway, so instead of completely redesign only replacing some electronic with Polish ones, adding more external block armor on the sides and more reactive armor. They chosen that way because of time and need for quick deliveries and in defense our MOD also said that we will take active part in development of next generation tank with Korea and that future tank will actually have previously wanted isolated ammo storage, more armor and all that stuff with 130 or 140mm gun.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I was monitoring what our MOD said these past days and here is the final answer: original K2PL (with 7 wheels, rebuilt turret, more armor and isolated ammo storage) that was presented to Poland in 2019 was just a concept without any actual technical details and Korea said from the start in 2019 if we were to go with it they would need many years to actually re-design the K2 to proposed K2PL even with option to mount 130mm or 140mm gun. Our MOD was stalling for all these years since 2019 without taking any decision but now with war and all of our soviet tanks going to Ukraine they were forced to chose next tank for the army. And it looks like that instead waiting many years for Korea to actually technically design original K2PL the "new" version of K2PL will be actually somethin closer to K2NO

      https://i.imgur.com/XlANMIn.jpg

      How about Lithuania vs Germany?
      >http://www.technologijos.lt/n/technologijos/karyba/S-103652/straipsnis/Kas-is-tikruju-vyksta-su-Boxer-pirkome-Vilkus-o-gavome-kate-maise-ir-galime-tai-dar-karta-pakartoti
      >also Czechia + Australia vs the Lynx boondoggle
      German arms industry appears not to have its shit together at all right now. Prudent procurers would ignore German AFV offers for the next 5-10 years and see if the manufacturers unfuck themselves.

      >if it can be mitigated if true
      Yes but not completely. Composite modules can be swapped for better ones but they can't easily be made much thicker or heavier, which is always the surest and simplest way of increasing armor protection. It probably won't be possible to add significant composite armor to the sides and strengthen the existing weaker spots by a lot as the chassis was never designed for it. Some of these weak areas that can only be addressed by designing a new K2 variant.
      The 'improved K2' project would have eliminated most of the flaws of the original version but that proposal was abandoned. I marked some of the proposed changes to the turret on the pic.
      There would be significant changes to the hull as well with a slightly stretched chassis, expanded front armor, tread configuration adjusted to support increased size and weight by adding a 7th pair of road wheels, and with all hull-stored ammunition moved to a fully isolated magazine.
      The improved variant concept lives on as a notional base for a future 'K3' but I think it's unlikely that's going to go anywhere soon, now that almost 1000 brand new tanks based on the current K2 chassis will be produced.
      IMO if the original K2PL was produced it would have been one of two by far best contemporary MBT's together with the Abrams SEPv3/v4. As it is right now the latest K2 will be only a slightly less shitty choice than the latest Leopard 2.
      You be the judge if 'less shitty' is going to translate to 'good enough' in the current and future environment.

      >It probably won't be possible to add significant composite armor to the sides and strengthen the existing weaker spots by a lot as the chassis was never designed for it. Some of these weak areas that can only be addressed by designing a new K2 variant.
      >The 'improved K2' project would have eliminated most of the flaws of the original version but that proposal was abandoned. I marked some of the proposed changes to the turret on the pic.
      >There would be significant changes to the hull as well with a slightly stretched chassis, expanded front armor, tread configuration adjusted to support increased size and weight by adding a 7th pair of road wheels, and with all hull-stored ammunition moved to a fully isolated magazine.
      >The improved variant concept lives on as a notional base for a future 'K3' but I think it's unlikely that's going to go anywhere soon, now that almost 1000 brand new tanks based on the current K2 chassis will be produced.
      150 fucking posts in until 2 anons who actually paid attention and aren't just butthurt gays clear up the confusion.
      Props to you guys, I'd kill a million polish tourists to have just 3 more like you.

  27. 2 weeks ago
    T-I-G-E-R-S

    Imagine the Ukrainian army rebuild with K2.
    With Polish procurement it's... 2500 - twenty five hundred tanks, more than the rest of Europe combined.

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What's up with Poland? How is this small fucking backwards country the main thing everyone talks about now and why are vatniks/germs so upset?
    I remember 5 years ago Poland didn't even exist.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Judging by the attempt at a "poland general" we have about 20-30 polish tourists who never held a gun, never served and never had any interests in warfare until about 6 months ago.
      It'll fade, the good ones (or those that hopefully become the good ones by then) and a couple spergs will remain. Same thing that went down with turkey when they modernized.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That thread has a suHispaniciously high amount of IPs
        I imagine there's like 5 actual Polish people here and the rest are just pretending to bait vatnik shills

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It had 70 IDs last time I checked and half of it was in Polish while none of it was ontopic. It was basically a 4chan colony. That's why I said 20-30, I'm assuming the majority was non-polish but there were still plenty of newnigs around.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Poland is the 20th economy on Earth.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This purchase literally saved the next 40 years of Polish mechanized divisions. It's not about the performance of the tank, it's about having a NATO-spec machine with an autoloader and a 3-man crew in a country that doesn't have the best demographics and wants to field 6 divisions. Even if K2 is slightly less effective than its German counterpart (which is fucking doubtful because German tanks are either outdated or vaporware/not produced in sufficient numbers), it's still good enough and you can crew more of them.

    Same thing applies to K9 vs Krab or Pzh2000. Koreans are facing similar demographic issues and the solution we can implement here is more mechanization.

    When this Korean equipment gets introduced and becomes the standard, we'll be ahead of the curve when compared with any European country because we'll be the only nation that's actually realistic about manpower.

    If you don't believe me, look up how many new Leopard 2s Germany actually has. The numbers are pathetic even if you include 2A5s.

    On top of that, Western Euros have made it impossible to work with them because they turned out to be completely unreliable. Just incredibly shitty partners who don't fulfill their contracts and then try to cover it up in the infosphere by pretending we want their shit for free because it reinforces a harmful stereotype about Poles.

    Well, guess what, you might trick some dumbass Westerners, but you won't get any more of our business. And when you finally snap out of it, we'll already have decent experience when it comes to manufacturing equipment that doesn't require 80s-sized crews and is a great match for a demographically-shrunk Europe that doesn't have any experience in this field.

    So my answer to all the seething Germans here is: you've made your bed in more ways than one, now get replaced, gays. And when you try again, maybe refrain from abusing your customers.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    can someone tl;dr whether this is a shitty deal or not?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's not. K2 is the best tank you can currently get. Unless you want the turbine then it's Abrams.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >can someone tl;dr whether this is a shitty deal or not?
      See

      https://i.imgur.com/XlANMIn.jpg

      How about Lithuania vs Germany?
      >http://www.technologijos.lt/n/technologijos/karyba/S-103652/straipsnis/Kas-is-tikruju-vyksta-su-Boxer-pirkome-Vilkus-o-gavome-kate-maise-ir-galime-tai-dar-karta-pakartoti
      >also Czechia + Australia vs the Lynx boondoggle
      German arms industry appears not to have its shit together at all right now. Prudent procurers would ignore German AFV offers for the next 5-10 years and see if the manufacturers unfuck themselves.

      >if it can be mitigated if true
      Yes but not completely. Composite modules can be swapped for better ones but they can't easily be made much thicker or heavier, which is always the surest and simplest way of increasing armor protection. It probably won't be possible to add significant composite armor to the sides and strengthen the existing weaker spots by a lot as the chassis was never designed for it. Some of these weak areas that can only be addressed by designing a new K2 variant.
      The 'improved K2' project would have eliminated most of the flaws of the original version but that proposal was abandoned. I marked some of the proposed changes to the turret on the pic.
      There would be significant changes to the hull as well with a slightly stretched chassis, expanded front armor, tread configuration adjusted to support increased size and weight by adding a 7th pair of road wheels, and with all hull-stored ammunition moved to a fully isolated magazine.
      The improved variant concept lives on as a notional base for a future 'K3' but I think it's unlikely that's going to go anywhere soon, now that almost 1000 brand new tanks based on the current K2 chassis will be produced.
      IMO if the original K2PL was produced it would have been one of two by far best contemporary MBT's together with the Abrams SEPv3/v4. As it is right now the latest K2 will be only a slightly less shitty choice than the latest Leopard 2.
      You be the judge if 'less shitty' is going to translate to 'good enough' in the current and future environment.

      and

      I was monitoring what our MOD said these past days and here is the final answer: original K2PL (with 7 wheels, rebuilt turret, more armor and isolated ammo storage) that was presented to Poland in 2019 was just a concept without any actual technical details and Korea said from the start in 2019 if we were to go with it they would need many years to actually re-design the K2 to proposed K2PL even with option to mount 130mm or 140mm gun. Our MOD was stalling for all these years since 2019 without taking any decision but now with war and all of our soviet tanks going to Ukraine they were forced to chose next tank for the army. And it looks like that instead waiting many years for Korea to actually technically design original K2PL the "new" version of K2PL will be actually somethin closer to K2NO proposed to Norway, so instead of completely redesign only replacing some electronic with Polish ones, adding more external block armor on the sides and more reactive armor. They chosen that way because of time and need for quick deliveries and in defense our MOD also said that we will take active part in development of next generation tank with Korea and that future tank will actually have previously wanted isolated ammo storage, more armor and all that stuff with 130 or 140mm gun.

      Answer: Kinda

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Its funny as fuck reading these threads
    t. nord involved in P9360

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      give us your insights Nordic man

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Fire of some questions if you got any,i will try to answer them without doxxing myself

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Jeg har noen.

          How far has the selection process come; are there actual field tests yet?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Kjør på

            The current plan is to sign a contract by the end of the year. So during the fall there will be contract negotiations,bid updates, downselection etc.
            We did field trials with both contenders in january/febuary, looking at how both work in winter/arctic conditions, understanding how they function etc

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              How much does the politics of the manufacturers actually matter for Norway? It's hardly going to be a sizeable purchase by international arms standards.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You don't have to state which one, but is there a clear winner for the Norwegian technical requirements or are they quite close?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They are frustratingly close. Ofc each candidate have their strengths and weaknesses, but the score now is too close to call. This may change during the final eval ofc.

            How much does the politics of the manufacturers actually matter for Norway? It's hardly going to be a sizeable purchase by international arms standards.

            Yes and no. For SK getting a foot in KMW's "playground" matters a lot, and KMW is interested in staying as Europe's mbt supplier. Both suppliers have to meet requirements regarding corruption, H&S, all the human rights shit etc.
            As for the current issues with german deliveries, export control and whatnot, this has been pretty much been known by anyone dealing with German equipment since forever. I doubt it will influence us tbh.

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why the fuck is there 24/7 seething about this? Just let Polan build their tanks man, it doesn't impact you in the very least.

    • 2 weeks ago
      T-I-G-E-R-S

      >it doesn't impact you in the very least.

      Not in the optic of KMW/RHM: a hundred tanks order lost, a possible competition rising. Hence the lobbyists on overdrive, pic related.
      on PrepHole , however, it's only ruskie kids trolling German kids, with a sprinkle of self hating Poles butthurt over ruling party .

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Im absolutely fascinated at how much he got wrong in his rundown

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >however, it's only ruskie kids trolling German kids, with a sprinkle of self hating Poles butthurt over ruling party .
        Literally 90% polish tourists who posts seething threads about ukraine-adjacent topics nowadays.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Enjoying your holidays much?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >a critical post!
            >must be Russian/German/Hungarian
            People are getting tired of the tourists.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              t.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Fuck you but I still laughed

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    PiSs poor standards.

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Could be worse. Could be buying tanks from a country with a pro-Putin president.

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