did allied pilots shit themselves when they saw these for the first time? (clue: the answer rhymes with snes)
did allied pilots shit themselves when they saw these for the first time? (clue: the answer rhymes with snes)
did allied pilots shit themselves when they saw these for the first time? (clue: the answer rhymes with snes)
still won
Chuck Jäger shot down the first jet he ever saw, so not universally.
The 262 also was geared for bomber interception not fighter.
He shot it down while it was on final, so idk about his heroic act.
Still, jets were pretty trash and P51s could go just as fast, also even the bongs had them but didn't want to use them
Most of them were shot down while trying to land or just after take off. The nazi air defense was basically a defeated force by the time the me262 came along. It didn't have the room it needed to perform to its strengths.
The 262s were quite a bit faster than P-51s, hitting about 500 mph at the altitude they escorted B-17s/B-24s at. You're right that they were overall pretty shit though, the throttles were sensitive to response and the engines needed rebuilding every 25 hours of flight time. It was a forward thinking design and at a tactical level was a pretty good aircraft, but it was not good enough to have much influence on the war
It isn't like Germany had exclusive access to jet engines, it's simply that the allies saw little use in retooling all of their production lines to make a plane that was harder to maintain and more expensive when the war devolved into a pure numbers game.
Pic related faster and more agile than the Me-262 with a higher max takeoff weight and service ceiling
>faster and more agile than the Me 262
Yeah, but with a high command too scared to put that to the test.
>Too scared
Or they just realized that having 100 prop fighters is better than having three jet fighters
how come we can't just shit out thousands of modern prop planes today alongside our jets to augment the air force?
america is a service economy now. They cant shit out anything in large quantities
because you'd need to shit out thousands of pilots which is possible but expensive, more expensive than just giving your existing pilots the best equipment
could it work for china or russia?
also, we do
Anon, are you trying to be stupid or just trying to bait? Prop planes nowadays are like what bows & arrows became when muskets were invented. And America already has the largest Air Force in the world so why would we need to shit out hundreds of prop planes? The only "swarm" planes that make somewhat of a sense are drones/UAV's. And America has actually been experimenting with a program called "Loyal Wingman" that plops AI's into older jets like F-15's and F-16's and has the AI control them. This actually allows the AI operated planes to make much more sudden maneuvers as they don't have to worry about G-tolerance, but the AI isn't quite there yet where it can defeat a human pilot.
Other than CAS why would you do that?
They didn't want Germans or the Soviets getting their hands on the engines
>more expensive
early jet engines were far cheaper than the super complex piston engines fighters were getting equipped with
A P-51 cost half as much as an F-80.
>Still, jets were pretty trash and P51s could go just as fast, also even the bongs had them but didn't want to use them
maybe with a cat 5 hurricane tailwind while on dive and having 4 rockets on the wind
me262 speed - 900KPH
p51 speed - 700 KPH
Me262 at top speed would have disintegrated the engine before the sortie was over, especially considering the low quality alloys and lack of production quality
That's pure cope, 262 was the most advanced fighter interceptor of WW2, you can't deny that.
>most advanced interceptor of WW2
>1930s tier boxspring antennas AT BEST, most had no (zero) radar
If the Me 262 was such a good interceptor it's factories wouldn't have been bombed flat, I'll take a Mossy with an AI radar any day over a M*ssershit
Cope more mutt, you couldn't even invent the jet engine lmao
oh it's not actually a PrepHole discussion about weapons it's a thinly veiled /int/ thread about your interracial cuckold fetish, my mistake
>mutts law
>mutt mutt mutt mutt mutt
you sound like a backfiring scooter
Hi Hapanda!
Are you fucking retarded? Oh wait, this entire thread is just a bait thread by a 4chan retard. The Brits AND Americans were messing around with jet engines in the 1930's. THE THIRTIES. Jet engines were not some new concept by the time the Me-262 was deployed. The Americans and Brits were surprised by it because they didn't expect the Nazi's to waste their resources on such limited numbers of jets when they could've used it on more important stuff, like Panzer 4's and 5's.
It was a neat idea built out of pooptrash garbage materials by a desperate nation on the brink of defeat. The 262 is a sexy plane that probably would have been pretty good if it wasn't built by a nation that was already at it's knees.
Advanced in design yeah, deeply flawed in execution. Much like all the late war german shit.
In the same sense that the MiG-25 was the most advanced fighter interceptor of the cold war, in that it was the fastest
>muh most advanced
Gloster Meteor beat it in most relevant characteristics. Stay mad, wehraboo.
P-80
wasn't used before the war ended
>...two American pre-production Lockheed YP-80A Shooting Star fighter jets saw limited service in Italy with the USAAF on reconnaissance, in February and March 1945.
the longnose focke wulf 190 d just means
SPEED
See pic
>shot down on final
Yeah. The Me262 had a really long, slow, and flat final approach. So, the escort fighters would fuck with them just enough to keep the Germans from getting easy passes on the bombers. Meanwhile, fighter bombers would go to the Me262 airbases, which were well known and in range, suppress German AAA, and then just fucking seal club the jets trying to land.
The Jumo 004 couldn't handle rapid throttle changes, so once the pilot throttled down for landing, he was locked in on that speed. Even if he saw the Allied fighters coming in on him, he couldn't speed up to escape or get energy to maneuver. He wouldn't even want to run since the plane burned fuel like a motherfucker and he didn't have the gas to do anything but land. So even if he did try to run/fight, the German would run out of grass and crash killing himself anyways. The pilot can't even bail out at that altitude because the chute wouldn't slow him enough to save him.
Both the German and Allied pilots knew that the Me262 on final could do nothing but pray.
>See pic
>le epic badass quote pic
goddam Americans are full of shit
This
Americans are retarded
here's some more Yeager quotes you limey fucks
american "greatest generation" gets called out on his shitty take, immediately makes personalized attacks. Interesting huh. You know doesn't do that shit? The guys from MAC-V-SOG They're all professional, and respectful. CJ like all pilots is a narcissist, because comparatively they weren't in danger.
You sound British.
You sound like a boomer.
this is how meaningless your statement is.
Yewww sound loike a boomah lmfaooo suck a dick limey gay
You sound Latinx
Seethe some more vatmoron
WW2 fighter pilots has way higher combat mortality than any US SOCOM unit, ever.
Vietnam Era tacair pilots has a much higher fatality rate than any special operations forces, by a lot. Only helo pilots were more likely to get wasted
the fact that for all his ability as a pilot (somewhat overstated in itself frankly) Chuck Yeager wass a massive anglophobe and total cunt is well known
Such a typical display of gayry
>gayry
Coming from the “nation” that is the number one exporter of sodomite degeneracy
Piss poor bait. Try again.
>itt. Angry shitskin europoor
>Both the German and Allied pilots knew that the Me262 on final could do nothing but pray.
Yeah thats exactly why the Germans had a dedicated unit that did nothing but fly over 262 air bases to protect them on final approach. Pic very related. The red/white underside was meant to avoid blue/blue AA-accidents
That would be the TA-183
>Yeah thats exactly why the Germans had a dedicated unit that did nothing but fly over 262 air bases to protect them on final approach.
>now we can destroy both a jet and a regular fighter at once
the ability to protect 262s was extremely limited because only extra long runways could accommodate them, meaning that it was always obvious where they were operating from
Wrong.
Units would frequently move around the country side and use random flat fields as a makeshift airfield.
Then when that base started getting hit, they moved elsewhere.
>Units would frequently move around the country side and use random flat fields as a makeshift airfield.
if by random field, you mean one of only a few dedicated airfields of the right size
>just as fast
poorfags really cope hard............................................................................................
please enlighten me on how copewaffe helped germany win ww2... oh wait
>he doesnt know
>He shot it down while it was on final, so idk about his heroic act.
Killing nazis is a heroic act
was it worth it when you just remade their army 10 years later to help prevent an invasion from the bolsheviks you supported so much a few years ago and who now subverted you?
who says im american
Me, I declare you an American from now on.
Unfathomably based
reddit, have a nice day
>He shot it down while it was on final, so idk about his heroic act
>Be allied airman in 1944
>See newfangled plane with no propeller flying German colours
>Goes fast and turns alright unlike the rest of their dive bombing bullshit
>Keep a safe distance and an eye on it
>It's trying to land
>Flying a beginner's trajectory for landing
>Easy mark, put some 50 cal near it
>Fire and smoke
>Guess we just keep doing that?
Is it really Chuck's fault that the Luftwaffe made a shitty plane that can barely land?
He was definitely skilled, but if an ace's only victories were planes on the final, he shouldn't brag about it, there's a difference between a dogfight and seal clubbing
>Still, jets were pretty trash and P51s could go just as fast, also even the bongs had them but didn't want to use them
LMAO
>P51 COULD GO JUST AS FAST
i bet you are a seething bong
Sorry nazy bud, despite your cope waffen you stilll lost 😉
>tripfag
>doesn't know about Meteor
kys, gay
most allied pilots never saw one
Ignore the start of the show. The radio chatter is kino.
wow, actors reading lines, so kino.
>262
1400 produced around 400 claimed kills (mostly bombers) 100 lost in air to air combat...
not a stellar service record...
Germany suffered from fuel shortages and a lack of trained pilots. Not the planes fault
use mass produced prototypes that are prone to mechanical failure, complex to maintain and expensive to manufacture and operate
>Not the plane s fault
well they were rushed and it showed - they were ok interceptors - but had to many flaws as fighter planes to be considered good.
Germans built a more mechanically reliable plane
And for ever single one they made the Allies pumped out like 10 decent aircraft..
Human wave tactics aren’t impressive
losing the war is even less impressive
can you stop being a moron please?
use good faith arguments.
“Reject reality and submit to my fantasy as to why this was the best choice and the fact that it didn’t work out in real life is irrelevant.”
Making a thread where you falsely claim that the allies were terrified of the handful of German Jets in the air like it was some war winner isn't a good faith thread.
But they were.
Mr. Doolittle himself made a statement regarding the 262 and how congress was very close to stopping daylight raids all together. The 262 was quite a shock.
Before you ask,
The source is Colin Heaton's ME262 stormbird book. That is, if you actually cared.
>daylight raids
oh no, if only we had some dramatic superiority in air to ground, air to air, and ground to air radar systems to own the night with
killing your own troops is even less less impressive
Sounds like something a back to back world war loser would say.
Anytime someone tries to describe Western Allies strategy as "human waves" you can safely rule out the possibility they have any meaningful input to provide to the conversation.
Your literally bragging about winning because you built 100 fighters for 3 of their jets
Just accept your strategy for what it was and stop coping
>US rifleman: has abundant artillery, armor, logistical and air support, all the individual equivalent of German equipment
>German conscript (age 13-75): considered well-equipped if his unit is motorized
Again, you obviously have nothing worthwhile to add to this conversation if you somehow think that the military that gave the most support to its troops in human history can in anyway be described as human waves
Well equipped human waves are still human waves. You just threw bodies at objectives till it was capture like monte casino
You might as well argue the moon is made of cheese, with how much since you're making. Still, it is amusing to consider that a German truck driver was probably in more danger at any given time than a US infantryman on the frontlines, considering how much the US preferred to have support options soften up defenders before committing their infantry
I think a US infantrymen had similar chance at getting bombed compared to the germans
>The following day, on 25 July, the operation was repeated by 1,800 bombers of the Eighth Air Force. On this occasion, the weather was clear, but despite requests by First Army commander General Omar Bradley to bomb east to west, along the front in order to avoid creepback, the air commanders made their attack north to south, over Allied lines. As more and more bombs fell short, and U.S. positions again were hit, 111 were killed and 490 wounded. Lieutenant General Lesley McNair was among the dead, the highest-ranking victim of American friendly fire.
>Allies commit nearly 2,000 bombers to close air support
>misjudged drop kills a hundred friendly troops
>Germans attempt to sink fishing trawlers
>friendly fire, 90% fatality rare amongst lost ships
:/
>misjudge
more like didnt care or didnt train them because you just relied on numbers and only cared about getting as many soldiers out as possible
>July – During Operation Husky, Lieutenant General Omar Bradley, commander of the U.S. II Corps, recalled that his column was attacked by American A-36 ground-attack aircraft in Sicily. The tanks lit yellow smoke flares to identify themselves to their own aircraft but the attacks continued, forcing the column to return fire which resulted in the downing of one aircraft. A parachuting pilot from the downed A-36 was brought before Bradley. 'You stupid sonofabitch!!' Bradley fumed. 'Didn't you see our yellow recognition signals!?' The pilot replied 'Oh, is that what that was?'.[144]
Pilot must’ve been gnomish
>NOOOOO YOU CAN'T TRY TO WIN A WAR YOU HAVE TO FIGHT ME IN SINGLE COMBAT OR IT DOESN'T COUNT!!!
a human wave is defined as a massed infantry attack intended to get into close range of the enemy
which is 100% not allied doctrine
which was to fight a classical war of maneuver against the enemy, using armored divisions to sweep across open terrain and trap the enemy in an encirclement
which is exactly what happened at normandy, where after a long artillery battle, allied armored forced broke out of the beachhead and drove hell-for-leather aroudn the enemy and cutting them off, while the infantry prevented any attempts to break out
the largest battle on the western front, the ardennes, involved a hedgehog defense that used defensive concentrations to force german forces to avoid those concentrations and be funneled into a disadvantageous position
By that definition the Germans used human waves too dumbass.
why are you using the example of monte casino and not literally any of the russian(oh deary me, excuse me. U.S.S.R. because you could only have troops by literally enslaving other parts of the world) examples?
fuck off vatmoron you are scum.
Germans threw human waves at objectives until they ran out of humans
Yes, the Allies strategy was total materiel superiority, allowing for overwhelming advantages even in numerically relatively equal battles. Which the krauts didn't get anyway, hence why they kept suffering lopsided casualties all the way from Normandy to the Allies overrunning West Germany.
>muh human waves
Imagine suffering massively higher casulaties on the defense against an enemy that uses "human waves". I guess the Wehrmacht truly were just absolute clownish incompetents in the end.
No, they didn't.
a result of the strategic situation of the war.
not the performance of the plane.
dumbfuck.
Oh shut the fuck up. Me262 was an overenginerred pieve if shit, and P80 shooting star was better in almost every way.
4:1 is amazing considering what they faced + fuel and pilot shortages
Yes.
Sadly wunderwaffens are worth shit if you don't have the logistics and combined arms to support.
Wicked anecdotal but my father growing up knew his fair share of ww2 vets, and one told him he was in Europe near the end of the war, and the first time a jet flew over him he did in fact shit himself. That's pretty much the only details I have and it's completely unverifiable.
I've met several B-17 F-G crew members over the years. The two that encountered ME-262's were at first amazed by seeing jets streak through their formations, and then were extremely worried there would be swarms of them. After a few runs, they realized they had short flight times, and there were not made in sufficient numbers to pose a major threat. One waist-gunner said it was a waste of time trying to spray them, as they had a fuck of a time figuring out how far to lead them. Post-war, they all admired the technology, but wouldn't have wanted to pilot one, based on the fuel they used (C Stoffe just fucking melts you).
the 163 had the pilot dissolving fuel you're getting confused
In Robin Olds wing, ME 262s were called "blowjobs" and dismissed as any real threat.
A question to all the Me 262 fanboys in the thread, if the Me 262 was so advanced, why was THIS the best night fighter they could make out of it? Look at upon him and despair.
I SAID LOOK UPON HIM (mb)
tell me again how THAT is more advanced than THIS? that bro got chain home on his face while the Meteors out here flying like it's 1955
holy fuck that's attractive
How many krauts did this retardation literally melt alive?
none because you're thinking of the Me 163, the Me 262 ran on regular jet fuel or whatever vaguely flammable liquid the luftwaffe had left
Wouldn't you shit yourself as a modern fighter pilot if you saw for example a plane without wings.
Thats what it was like for them, "Oh shit how is that flying without a propler"
>damn those are some big fucking guns
>I wonder where they put the engine
the 262 was not a tic-tac-tier alien abberation
Turbojet engines weren't UFO-tier technology, they were invented years ago and everyone knew a jet fighter would eventually come. The allies were already working on their own jets they just didn't have to rush them into service like the Germans did out of desperation.
I do kinda wish they had because I would've loved to see a P-80 and an early Meteor fight an Me-262. That would've been some of the best jet dogfights ever.
Nah, French made a working jet engine decades prior and the technology was known about, it just wasn't fielded because of the lack of incentive, knowledge and finances.
Sure, individual pilots who saw these things fly, which can be counted on one hand, probably had a "wtf" moment but it was irrelevant in the long term.
Not really. I’m sure that the first time allied pilots encountered German jets, they were pretty spooked by them (air command sure had to know that jets are a possibility, but individual pilots probably not), but not *that* spooked.
ME262 KINO ALERT
>ME262 KINO ALERT
ME262 KINO ALERT
?si=c6XggUcbsCSjEK_B
>red tails
>kino
have a nice day Spielberg
so if the 262 was made for attacking bombers, what were the nazis developing as a jet fighter?
Interceptors are a type of fighter since their targets are other planes. But there was also the often forgotten He-162.
They weren't. They had zero plans for a jet-based air superiority fighter. The 262 and 163 were both specifically geared towards killing bombers as they were both armed with the 30mm Mk 108's which had incredibly low velocity compared to any other plane-mounted weapon. They had all-but given up with defeating Allied fighters and focused solely on killing bombers and trying to outrun fighters. Not to say some fighters didn't get shot down, but the 262's and 163's main mission was killing bombers.
>killing bombers and trying to outrun fighters.
I mean it's a pretty good approach tbqh
Not really, they had zero hopes of actually halting Allied bombing and they knew that yet still wasted tons of materials, time and manpower on launching unproven tech in what was a futile effort. The best thing they could've done in the situation they were in was to focus on the ground game. Wouldn't have helped in the end, but might've delayed the Russians in the East enough for the Brits and Americans in the West to take Berlin instead of the Russians.
>in every possible aspect germany is far ahead from you bongs
English is the current Lingua Franca, French was Lingua Franca during the Golden Age of Europe, Italian was Lingua Franca during the early European rebirth and Latin was Lingua Franca of the first European Empire and Greek was the Lingua Franca of the first European states.
Where is the German in all of this?
English is a German creole
Yes, and what is the second part of it?
Latin but fixed by Germans.
Yes, when everyone thinks of Gauls, they think Germans.
Now lets talk about Slavic influences on the German language after the 6th century.
Most of the ones that were made never shot down anything, so probably not really.
>german empire
vs
>british empire
case closed chuddo, also you lost in ww1, ww2 and 2020
:^)
People in the UK are 2.3 times more wealthy than those in Germany, that wealth is also distributed more evenly.
The curry powder for your currywurst came from Britain. Britain built the German car industry through the revival of VW as it rebuilt Germany post war.
And since this is PrepHole our military outclasses your in every single way, it's not even funny how big the power disparity is.
We are allowed to defend ourself and our home with every tool we deem necessary instead of getting thrown in jail for pointing a kitchen knife at a burglar.
Now it's your turn again
4chan has rotted your brain. Brits have more freedoms than you. .
Do you like me raping you with data?
I'm not even a britbong but call me when you can buy a centerfire handgun or a semi auto centerfire rifle.
You know, since this is PrepHole and everything...
Call me when anyone other than the US has more power projection than us, something that actually matters since rats and crows aren't less dead when you shoot them with .22lr.
That's some quite specific cope no one asked for or cares about on.
And yet you serfs still go to jail for selfdefense. I enjoy more personal freedom in this regard and no amount of "m-muh p-power projection"-cope can change that.
lmao tories repealed that law. Try again jerry. Oh wait, mutti merkle made it so you have rape festivals, and then the victims are arrested.
you can't use firearms in self defence in germany either moron.
Yes, I can. We usually don't get CCW permit, but for home defence and on my way doing hunting stuff I can use them for self defense, retard
having it be legal for whatever is available to you is not the same thing as having the right for a firearm for self defense moron.
>having the right for a firearm for self defense
this actually exits in germany while pepper spray is banned in bongland
Not really. Mostly, they where just confused about the whole thing. The 262 has a lot of speed but couldn't turn at those speeds because of the manual controls.
Got damn I NEED a fictional setting where the war I Europe lasted until 1946 and we saw more types of German jets in service like the Ho229
If you're into vidya, that is.
>russia stronk vatniks too depressed and drunk to shitpost anymore
>finally peace and quie-
>wehraboos immediately awaken from their ancient ten year slumber
>(clue: the answer rhymes with snes)
bomber crews got a little spooked when being buzzed by an me262
but aside from that probably not, as most pilots would not see one in the air